The Ringer NBA Show - Is This Anything? | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 17, 2023

The Ringer’s Michael Pina joins Justin and Wos to examine some of the league’s biggest storylines and consider whether or not they are significant long term takeaways. First, they cover the Clippers improved play and defensive effort over their seven game winning streak (3:06). Then, they talk about the Warriors disappointing season and poor performances from Steph’s supporting cast (13:31). Later, they celebrate the Dante Exum renaissance and highlight how his impressive play factors into the Mavericks future (33:42).  Hosts: Justin Verrier and Wosny Lambre Guest: Michael Pina Producer: Jack Sanders Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if everyone said they heard your trailer a hundred times? You'd probably make a new one. I'm Justin Sales, the host of The Wedding Scammer, the ringer's first ever true crime pod. We've been hunting a con man for a few weeks now, and our hunt is coming to an end. Schemes, Heartbreak, How to Put On a Wire. We've covered all this and more, but there are still a few surprises left. Binge the Wedding Scammer wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, welcome to group chat.

I am Justin Verrier and joining me, as always, Big Was. Rob Mahoney is not here, but when he found out that we were talking about the clippers, Michael Pina just descended from the rafters like Sting with the baseball bat. What's on, Mike? How you guys doing? It's a pleasure to just celebrate the best team in the NBA. Longest winning streak in the league right now, you just got to love it. What a time.

Happy holidays, Mike. What's up, Wasz? How are you? I'm good, man. You know, I'm in New York City. It's always a magical time during the holidays here in the city. All the lights and decorations and, you know, people pissing themselves on the train. It's just a magical, magical time here in the Big Apple. Yeah, I can feel the festive spirit just emanating from it. All right. So Rob isn't here. I think he's like in a cabin somewhere in Dallas. I'm not totally sure. But he did set us up for our next episode on Wednesday. We're going to do a mailbag. For some reason, Rob changed the email address. I don't totally, I'm not sure why he did that. But as opposed to the old one, it's now ringer group chat at gmail.com. So if you have any questions, get those in and we'll answer some of them on Wednesday. But today's St. is one, I'll be honest with you, I just ripped off because it's, is this anything? Which if you've watched the

Orlando Magic broadcast, you know that David Steele and crew do this pretty much every game, I believe, but I feel okay with it since the day themselves ripped that off of a David Letterman sketch. Why, does this feel okay? Is this an appropriate appropriation? I mean, I just think it's hilarious that you're knocking off the Orlando Magic's local broadcast. That is the most verier. addition that's ever been, you know, presented to this show. So that makes me happy, honestly. It's a good bit. And so I'm just trying to give back to and acknowledge some of the greats out there. Basically, it's just a bunch of random trends, recent findings, when we're going to go through them and determine whether or not this is anything or not, long term, whether or not there's

staying power. I think we have to start first and foremost with Michael's Clippers, who are now writing a seven-game win streak, longest in the NBA. They're 12 and three over the past 15 games. Those 15 games happened to coincide when Russell Westbrook was demoted to the bench. And here we are, Mike, is it as simple, this Clippers just feverish run here as just James Hardin and everything just clicking in the way that they had kind of drew up when they made the trade. I think so, honestly. I was at the first two games in New York when Harden first. made his debut with the Clippers

and those two games were terrible for Los Angeles they were shellacked yes they were shellacked by the Knicks they were shellacked by the Nix they were shillac by the Nets and honestly my big takeaway like I still had faith that it would work out

for them because fundamentally you're adding a really good player to a team that already has Kauai Leonard and Paul George and James Hardin would be the third best player and he fits offensively exactly what they've needed for so long. So I was always confident that it would work. But my biggest takeaway was in the press conferences that where Tailu would repeatedly say that they had a big four with Russell

Westbrook. And I was just like, the moment that they stop this charade, they'll be fine. Like, we can just, we can stop. We've got three guys who are on max contracts and a guy's on a vetman. Like it's not a big four. He's a role player. He's playing 15 minutes a game right now. And he's awesome in that role. That's great. He's corner crashing.

He's pushing the pace. He's defending his ass off in those bare minutes. And it all looks great. So honestly, like that adjustment, which was so, I mean, it was kind of obvious from the jump, but it took them a while to, it took them about a month to figure it out and really commit to it. but once they did, they've been awesome. And Kauai Leonard looks like an MVP. Paul George has been fantastic.

Harden is the most efficient he's ever been in the NBA, and he's shooting like 70% at the rim again. So, yeah, they're great, and their defense is sweet, and it took some time for Tyler to figure it out, but we're here, and we're in a great place. I am in a great place, I should say. Yeah, the defense looking as good, it has to me is the most surprising part.

I think when you rattle off the, you know, the marquee names on this team, you probably associate this team more with dominance on offense and that the defense has kind of carried the day has been a nice surprise to me. And I think, I think, yes, getting Russell out of the starting lineup and in a prominent role of any manner was key to making this thing gel. But I think more importantly, is Kauai is looking more dominant. Early on in the season, he was not looking like that. He looked rusty.

He wasn't getting as much lift. And more importantly, like creating the space for his midranger. Because really, usually what he does is he's so freaking strong. He just jars people loose off of him. They just bounce off of him. And he gets beautiful amount of space for his midranger. He just wasn't creating that separation early on. Maybe that's just because he was coming back from the injury, but now he's playing a more dominant style of hoop.

And that's what I think is going to carry the day for this team. If Kawhiolan is not dominant, I don't think these guys are an actual threat in the West or anywhere else. But if he's playing like MVP caliber type of player, as Mike mentioned, then these guys are serious. And I think their offense is only going to climb in efficiency as they get more used. to each other. And, you know, Mike mentioned it. Traditionally, these guys have never had a serious passer on this team in the Kauai era. The best passer they've had.

And God bless him, he's improved himself throughout his career as Russell Westbrook. And nobody thinks he's Magic Johnson. And so getting a hardened level playmaker in there has been magical. So, yeah, it's looking nice right now. So I do think it is a thing, Justin. Yeah, I would say the biggest compliment I could give to the Clippers these days is that they're watchable. Like I turned it on last night against the next. I had a nice little Saturday night to myself.

And it's still like cold, hard and efficient in the way that a quiet team typically is. It's not like electric, I would say. There are a lot of foul drawn in that game in particular, but it works. And I think Hardin is a big reason for that. Just the orchestration. He's very much conducting everything else going on there. It's a real, I was thinking to myself, Chris Paul late career effect, which might be damning with faint praise, but just the way that Paul has been able to organize the thunder, the suns, and now the second unit to a large extent with the Warriors, it feels like Harden is having that effect, just getting guys a little extra runway in order to get into their isolations or their attacks or whatnot. But I think the big thing we need to talk about, Mike, is the fact that Kwai Leonard is actually playing. So he is now played 25. straight games this season. I was looking it up. The last time he had played that many in a row

was to start the 2016, 2017 season with the Spurs. That was the season that he went on to be third in MVP voting. The closest he's gotten since then was 15 straight games in 2019, 2020, which was his first game with the Clippers. And so to a certain extent, maybe this is just what happens when one of the best players in the league actually plays. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, last season he would rest every, like every, he'd play five straight and then rest the sixth game. Once he started to get into his rhythm and he was like actually healthy. And that's a little frustrating.

And I think that the fact that he has no contract beyond this season is probably a small factor. And him just bawling out and playing every single night and has like a true shooting percentage of like 65 on the second night of. back-to-backs is just totally dominant on both ends. I have some stats for you guys, though, about the Harden effect, which I think is actually really significant to this team. The way Kauai gets his shots, if you look at the percentage of his made baskets that are assisted now versus two years ago when he was last healthy and really amazing for an entire season on the Clippers.

two years ago, 38% of his baskets were assisted. Right now, it's 55%. 39% in 2021 at the rim were assisted. 63% at the rim are assisted right now. And probably the most interesting to me is in the mid-range where he's always had to create his own shot. And, you know, as you said was,

like he just gets someone on his hip and just like nudges them off and that's how he creates his space. It was 22% in 2021 of the percentage that were assisted. Right now it's at 42. It's 20% higher. And a lot of this is hardened and his shock creation and his drive-in kicks and just how he collapses a defense. And the effect is kind of amazing. Like, Kauai is shooting 50% on spot up threes.

Kauai is shooting 80% at the rim. Like his two-point jumpers are way closer to the basket, or I should say to the paint, than they used to be or have been since he left San Antonio. So I just think like Hardin's effect on Kauai is, and those two play a ton together, they don't really stagger at all, has been one of the biggest, most eye-opening parts of that trade, and this is what Kauai has wanted. Like he wanted a point guard. He wanted John Wall.

He wanted Russell Westbrook. And he got someone who led the NBA and assists last year. So I think that the trade has been a success story. And health is really the only thing, in my opinion, that holds this team back from making a deep playoff run. And that is potentially a really crippling X factor, but I guess we'll see. Potentially. Yeah, Hardin plus 10.3 plus minus on the team over these past 15 games.

You're right. It just seems like everything is a little bit easier with Hardin in there. Long term, was, are you buying the clippers? Do you think this is more a product? of things just happen to be going well, or are you rethinking your tears as a result of this? No, I'm not rethinking anything. The last time Kauai Leonard finished a postseason,

meaning the last Clipper game played, Kauai Leonard was in that game, was the bubble. That's the last time that happened, which seems like 20 freaking lifetimes ago. And so until I see this dude actually finish a season for the Clippers, I just have a hard time believing anything, any of this is sustainable,

but we'll see I'll be happy to be wrong. Anytime this guy has been in the playoffs, he's essentially been Michael fucking Jordan. So, yeah, I would love to see it. But it's hard to have faith in something that just has not happened. But Mike, you're buying. Oh, I'm buying, yeah.

I pick the Clippers to go to the finals before the season started. They had Batum and Covington and I was good to go. So, yeah, I think. this seems really good on both ends and I'm just happy to see the starting lineup change. That was a big issue for

me for the first couple weeks and they're rolling right now. Yeah. So if we're doing the is this anything shtick, this is something, right? This is noticeable. Yeah. It is jarring. Games is a lot. Yes.

Exactly. That's more than half of their season. It's jarring to look at the standings these days and see the clippers are within the top sixth in the West. It's been a little while since we've seen that. So let's move along. The next one I have in my list here are the Warriors. And this is really a stat just to get us into the conversation about the Warriors because a lot of different ways we can go here. Over the past two games, Clay Thompson, which are the two games without Draymond Green, 27 points, 57% from three. Over the past 10, Clay is shooting 40% from three. So

it's good to see Clay back. But obviously, there are a lot of other things going on with the Warriors. Uh, was how do you feel about the Warriors, the Draymond experience, the post-Dremont experience? Uh, are you as down as I think probably a lot of people are on this team right now? Yeah, I'm pretty down. And, you know, what came to mind is, um, never underestimate the heart of a champion. Well, the Warriors are challenging that idea. Like, in a way that I have never seen before. dude it's like my goodness it looks so bad right now and again draymond doing what he's doing

is horrible enough but that he's so essential to what they do just obviously has compounding effects right if he were just some middling guy of golden states two track rebuild blah blah blah would have worked out it probably wouldn't matter so much hell they probably wouldn't have re-signed them to a $100 million deal last summer, if that the case. But, you know, things being what they are at the moment, like, it's just a killer. And the indefinite suspension is basically NBA speak for we don't really know how long we should suspend this guy for. And it's basically predicated on Draymond getting quote-unquote help. You know, we don't know what that means.

I don't even know. Not necessarily that I think the public has to know exactly what Draymond. is doing, you know, how many trust falls he's doing, you know, to get back on the court. Like, I don't know where the line is for us to, you know, feel satisfied that he's had enough penance. But yeah, him not being on the court is going to kill them. And it's not as if they were, you know, first in the West to begin with, right? Like, they're struggling in a really competitive conference. And so, yes, it's nice to see Clay get off the Schneide for a few games here, but it's going to take a lot more than that for these guys to get back on track.

I echo a lot of that. I'm not bullish on this team at all right now. Like the Clay Thompson stats of late that are okay, just he's a role player. And sometimes he looks like a star that he exploded against the clippers the other night. And some nights he looks completely washed up. And even in the last 10, where he's shooting was it 40% behind the three point line or something along those lines? It's not like he's

four for 10 in every game. Like, he was one for eight against the Blazers a couple, or a week ago. Two games later, he was one for eight against the suns. Like, I don't think he's turned a corner in any meaningful way. I don't think he's found a rhythm. I am

surprised every single time he creates separation. whether it be on a two-pointer or a side step-back three, or a step-back three, those are very few and far between. He has no athleticism on drives to the basket. He's getting shut down by Spencer Dinwiddie last night in crunch time without Spencer Dinwiddie breaking a sweat. And defensively, like, he's not guarding anyone.

Like, they have him against the clippers the other night in that game. Like, he's guarding a mere coffee when Hardin and Coire on the court. he's guarding Russell Westbrook when those two guys are on the court. Like Paul George didn't play that game because he was hurt. But like it is a, I don't know if it's like a free fall for him, but he's a role player right now. And I know he's their second leading score and they need him to obviously hit open threes that are created by Steph. But he's just not as involved as you would expect someone of his stature to be right now as the ship is sinking. And I don't know where like before the season started, he was one of the most.

important players in the league to me. I thought he had to re-elevate himself to an all-star level for this team to be a contender. And it's just like not even close to that. And it's compounded by Andrew Wiggins just being a total shell of himself, Draymond Green being a mess. And yeah, Steph is incredible. Like he's as good maybe as he's ever been. And it just like doesn't matter. And it's super depressing to see.

Otherwise things are going great. Yeah. So what I was struck by against the next game last night was just, I was like, oh, this team is actually kind of deep. Like when they'll try it out the second unit and Sarich is out there and Brandon Pajemski, who I want to talk about, like looks like a Warriors player, right? He's moving the ball. He's doing all the little things. Apparently six, five, but when he stands next to Chris, Steph Curry and Chris Paul, it looks pretty similar in height, minus the flu fair, but I guess that's a different story. But that guy is a good player. He's a warrior's player. Whatever Warriors DNA, that guy has it. Unfortunately, like,

the top end has completely just receded into that soft little middle where you're right, where it's like a Clay Thompson is just as helpful as like Adario Sarish at this point. And a Brandon Pajemski is probably just as helpful as an Andrew Wiggins at this point, who had to be demoted to the bench in order to get pods the starting role. And so there's just a lot of okay, which is not what you want to see around to Steph Curry. And Waz, I think we should probably talk about Wiggins, in addition to Draymond not being there, gets demoted to the bench. Do you have any hope that like this demotion will maybe like spur him in a way that he

hasn't like been able to get up for this whole season? So the story of what motivates Andrew Wiggins has been a question that has confounded every single season of his career where the people around him are trying to figure out how to goose a fire within this guy's belly, right? comically, Glenn Taylor at the press conference after maxing this dude out said he maxed Andrew Wiggins out on a promise that he would try hard. Okay? This is who we're talking about right now.

Yes, he was locked in for six months of 2022. He basically won them that damn title. You know, obviously Steph was their best player, but Wiggins was the second best guy on that team. Incredible on the boards. Incredible. Just getting to the paint. He would post up smaller guys.

This guy was a monster. Obviously, their best perimeter defender with his length and athleticism. But typically he's been a guy who's lacked motivation. He's not a self-starter. He never has been. If you talk to people around the league, the prolonged absence last year, Golden State was just like, yo, just let Andrew do his thing because they thought that if they were like stern with him,

that he would sulk and sink within himself. So they went the other way and was just like, oh, let's treat him like a baby and let him do what he wants to do. Right. And so nobody knows how to motivate Andrew Wiggins. And now Steve Kerr is the latest person trying something new. He's like, you know what? You're going to come off the bench and be a quote-unquote spark plug. But I don't know how you spark up a battery that is as dead as dead gets.

You know, and again, it's not as if the team is having this great success and this fun. And, you know, people can embrace roles and this. everything is beautiful when you're winning. They're not doing that. And so, yeah, that may got paid. I don't think we'll see, I don't think we'll hear from Andrew Wiggins until the last year of his deal. Mike, they don't say that about you. You're a self-starter.

That's exactly right. I wake up. I'm ready to grind. Let's go. Ready to blog. Yeah. I got to say the Celtics, like I picked the, in that finals, I pick. the Celtics because in part

I was like, Andrew Wiggins is this team's second best player. Like, come on. Like, what are we even doing here? And yeah, he killed the Celtics. And that team like, when they watch the Warriors right now, I bet they're just sick to their stomach being like, why couldn't this Andrew Wiggins show up for that series? Like, you've got to be

kidding me. His P.R right now is 7.9. Like, what are we even doing? Like, the fact that he got demoted is just, it's, I mean, I don't know what's happening off the court with him. I hope it's not too serious in a hangover situation from whatever happened last year, but the effort isn't there. He's turning the ball over a ton when he's not even in a playmaking role. It's

very concerning and you couldn't trade him if you wanted right now. That's kind of the situation for Mike Dunleavy Jr. I don't know how you improve this team externally, honestly. Whenever he gets a rebound, the Warriors broadcast just like is gleeful. They're like, Whoa, what is it is? It's like they just found $20 on the floor. It's like, it's pretty stark and it's crazy because he is at times one of the most athletic talent. He's a 6'9 with a 40-inch vert, Justin. Six foot nine with a 40-inch vert.

Well, we should talk about one of the bright spots as a result of his demotion, which is our guy, Pods. Mike, I feel like he's a Mike's sort of player. Am I right? Wow. I like him. Yeah. Can I get a, what are the characteristics of a Mike sort of player? I'm just kind of curious now.

Ball finds energy, a real team player, maybe doesn't play for 10 games at a time. Also might be a slow-footed, potentially overweight but not actually overweight, great passing center. Those type of guys. Yes, of course. very fair I like him a lot is pods what we're calling him is that the nickname

I think so it translates well if he ever got a ringer podcast so I think you have to get it going that's true the pods pod no like there was like two weeks into the season

and Steve Kerr's like I have to find minutes for him like it's just like he makes winning plays he drives closeouts I mean, first of all, he can shoot, so that's fantastic, and he can pass, and he's a willing, selfless player. But he drives closeouts, he knows how to read defenses that collapse on him. I think he's a little more athletic than he looks. And sneaky athletic, man, just a sneaky athlete.

And I remember... Whatever that is. On the day before the draft, when all the prospects were in New York City, I went up to basically every single player. was like, I asked them just, you know, who do, who in the NBA reminds you of you? And he told me, manu ginobley. And I was like, man, it's not in the NBA right now. But either. Yeah.

Yeah. But no, when he says that, I'm just like, that is, he is not at that level, of course, but the style and the competitiveness and, like, put your head down, drive to the basket, make something good happen. That is, it's very manu. And I think like just how he slashes to the pain and he's aggressive and he always makes like a really high IQ play and read. Like I see that similarity, honestly. And you do have to five minutes for him because he, the on-offs don't lie right now, even though it's not the greatest sample size.

I do think he impacts winning. I think he makes life easier for everybody else. He's involved in two-man action with Steph Curry at the end of basketball games. Like when Clay and Wiggins and whoever else is on the court, and that's not a coincidence. Like he's very skilled and smart and he's good. He's, how old is? He's an old rookie, right?

Kind of. Yeah. So, yeah, I just, I think he's awesome. He should be in their rotation. He should probably be playing even more than he does. And good pick, honestly, really good draft pick. You know, when Mike mentioned Steve Kerr slurping this guy in the beginning of the season.

season, which I just took for, you know, Steve loves guys who get the system, right? Like, if people understand the quote-unquote system, then Steve just instantly falls in love with them because a lot of people have come in there and they play very hesitant and essentially can't play up to their capabilities because they don't understand the sort of continuity, read and react, flow, offense that the Warriors like to run. So when I heard Steve say that, I was like, okay, this guy gets the system. But in my mind, I was like, I know Warriors fans are having nightmares and flashbacks of Andy Varajal minutes. Steve absolutely loved just because he was like, you know, a really cerebral player could not hoop anymore at that point.

But he understood what Steve wanted out there, right? And I was like, I hope this is not another case of that. But this guy actually can play. And as Mike said, I think what's most impressive is he doesn't play with any hesitation. This guy is assertive. He's aggressive. he makes quick-ass decisions, which I think is of the utmost importance in what Golden State likes to do, right?

And so, yeah, it's a no-brainer that he's thriving in that, given that skill, in this system, given that skill set. Yeah, best plus minus on the team right now. Definitely feels like he fits what they're doing. I will say, though, the trade-off is obviously defensively. And I didn't realize that the Warriors could get any smaller, but with him in that starting lineup, they look tiny. And we should probably talk about Draymond quickly here wise, if only because I don't think we really got a chance to dig in there.

It's odd to me. Yeah. Why don't you go ahead? I'll cede the floor to you. I mean, I feel like everybody's in a bad spot here, right? In the sense that the league has to be seen as dealing with this dude. And legitimately so. They don't want to go overboard because it's like, he can't.

can't be this stupid, right? Like, he's not going to keep doing this, but they don't have any evidence to the contrary. It's like 99.999% of NBA players ever and their understanding of what you can and cannot do between the lines and Draymond Green. And it's like, how do you go up against that logic? That just seems hard to go up against.

So I understand, like, people were kind of annoyed with the indefinite suspension, but I understand where they're going, because it's like, we can't just suspend this dude for 50 games, right? But, like, at the same time, like, what is this guy doing? So I understand the situation there.

And then you have the Players Union, who obviously he's a member of their union, but the people he's transgressing against are also union members. Like, bro, like, you can't be doing this to people. You know what I mean? So, like, the players union is in a tough spot in how they have to adjudicate this and figure out the right amount of pushback and the right amount support to give one of their members. You know, and of course, the Warriors are the Warriors.

Like, they just paid this guy. They made him understand, like, you're very integral to what we do. We care about you, Draymond. We got rid of Jordan Poole, even though you should have never punched him in the face and practice. And, like, everybody's in a tough spot here, and I appreciate that. But like I've been thinking about it's like what do you even do? Like part of me is just like, yo, suspended for 10 games. He'd do something else.

He's getting 20, right? Keep it pushing. But another part of me is like he can't be this stupid, this reckless, this mindless. I just refuse to believe that. Yeah, I guess the question is like how much of it is conscious versus what he was saying to like a Ramona Shelburne where like there was a point where he blacks out. and he doesn't know what he's doing. That feels a little strong to me, and it feels like a pretty typical case of a reporter getting access

to provide some of them a forum after they've done a bad thing, and, like, they try to put a certain spin on it, so it sounds a little bit more, like, personal and human than what ends up being just him kind of being an asshole and getting away with it for so long that he has habitually stepped over the line, and now he's at a point where he's just doing it at a much more accelerated rate.

And like, I don't know, you have a lot of other players coming out and being like, well, I hope he gets the help that he needs, which clearly something is wrong here. Like, I don't think a well-adjusted person probably does,

is not to speculate on someone's mental health. It's not the type of conversation I want to get into. But like, it almost feels like a go bear and other people are being like, I hope he's well, almost as like a, because they know that's going to cut him even. Yeah, exactly.

I'm saying. I almost wonder if they think they're trying to, to cut him a little bit more than while he's down because he knows that that sort of conversation is the thing he's going to bristle at the most. It's a mess. I just think he's been enabled by his organization, his teammates, his ownership group, the NBA for over a decade now. And I personally think that use of like mental health terms sometimes are unwarranted and diminish mental health language for actually serious cases. And so sometimes when you're like stomping on Demontas Subonis and you're choking out

Rudy Gobert and you're hitting Yuse of Nerkich in the face and you're kicking Stephen Adams in the groin. Like there's obviously a pattern here. There's obviously like he did say what he said to Ramona Shelburne in that story about like time is not really, um, um, um, um, um, time is not really, um, um, something he's conscious of when he's acting, but he's also said that, you know, he said about hitting Yusuf Nerkich that he felt him on his hip, and he was basically trying to draw a foul. So it's like, I don't know what is what there and how to drive that,

but I just think that this is the energy and the fire that he has to play with, and he has to imbue to be a successful NBA player. And if he were to turn that off or loosen it or notch it down, like 10, 20 percentage points or whatever, like he wouldn't be close to as good and productive and helpful as he is. And he wouldn't be worth $100 million. And by the way, their defense is terrible this season when he's on the court and even worse when he's on than off.

So, yeah, it's a really messy situation. I don't know how they get up under it. But they kind of, and I say they, like everyone involved made this bed. And so I don't, I don't know. Like, again, I'm not super comfortable speaking on his mental health and I don't know what he's been through and what he, what, you know, what makes his day to day difficult internally. But I do see the action as something that is a pattern and has not really been addressed in a serious manner until his team started to be terrible. So take that for what it is, I guess. Let's turn the page to something a little bit more bright and cheery here.

Dante Axum is back officially. 56% from three as a starter since Kyrie Irving has gone down with that heel injury. Over the past six, 17 points, four rebounds, five assists, 61,56, 80 for our guy Dante Exam. Was, Exam is back. Are you excited? Dude, I watched that Laker game the other day where he was like seven of eight or something insane, literally made every single three. And, you know, to be, to be honest, they were nobody around him three-pointers for the most part. Like, I think guys like LeBron and AD, they're like, I remember the scout report on this dude.

You don't contest his three-point shots. And he was just splashing him. It was, I don't know, it was almost like an outer-body experience for me. Like, my mind was blown. I was like, is this really Dante Exum back from the dead? You know, a real contributing NBA guard? And, you know, people don't remember, man, when he was a prospect, there were some Kobe comparisons, no lie.

When it comes to his athleticism and explosion, people were like, yo, this guy is a supreme athlete. And the shooting never came around. And the handle never really did either. And so, you know, he kind of flamed out and was gone. And for him to come back this way, particularly on this team. Because Luca, if he's going to do one thing, you know, he's going to create great looks for the people around him. And he's done just that for Exum.

And, man, it was just so dope to see how excited his guys were for him having that incredible game against the Lakers. Like, obviously, his teammates are really invested in the comeback as well. They understand his story. And so, yeah, this is dope. Now, this is not how shooting works. You don't go from shooting in the 20s to shooting in the 50s from 3. That's just not unless you're Kowai Leonard. But anybody else in the history of the NBA, this is not something that you do.

So he won't continue to shoot like this. But if Dante Exum is a 38% three-point shooter, that's freaking phenomenal. That's found money. if you're the Dallas Mavericks. I think for me, beyond the three-point shooting, which as you said is, you know, it'll go down. He'll go in a shooting slump. It's whatever. He's 44 for 55 at the rim, and he's super aggressive.

He's playing fearless basketball right now, attacking the paint going downhill, coast-to-coast drives. He picks someone's pocket and goes the other way at least once a game. He got Derek Rose against the Grizzlies. I'm blanking on who he got against the Trailblazers last night, but he got somebody. Like, it's just a regular happening. He got D-Lo against the Lakers in that game. And, yeah, his finishing ability in the paint is what's most impressive to me. And he just looks like a completely different player.

The speed is there. Like, if he hits, the big thing about the three-point shooting is like, as you guys said, with the scouting report, you can't, like, play off of him. So if you got to be up on Dante X-M and you give him that first step and he blows by you and all of a sudden he's got confidence in the paint to finish, that's when he's a really dangerous player. And you throw in Luca creating space and creating lanes for everybody with awkward closeouts because you got to help on Luca who's like basically the best player alive right now. Then he just becomes this really dangerous player. And it makes me think about like, I know this is a super big picture and like not what we're prepared to. talk about, but like, do you even need a second star next to Luca Donchich?

Or just do you need, like, excellent dudes striving in their role? Yeah, it's just like, do I need Kyrie Irving on my basketball team? If Dante Exum can carry my offense a little bit for 10 minutes a night or whatever? Because, I mean, they're throwing, on the Blazers game last night, they threw Matisse Thibel on him. They threw Jeremy Grant on him. And he's like probing with a live dribble and creating shots for himself and knocking them down. So, yeah, I just think that that's a really interesting.

I guess a philosophical question about Dallas and his future and how it should build a team. Yeah, when I watch Exxem these days, the thing that jumps out to me is, like, I wonder if he's actually the version of a second creator who will take over the offense for small stretches when Luca is sitting and willing to actually let someone else dribble the basketball. Like, maybe he is the more low-maintenance version of a Kyrie that actually fits a little bit better. and I think I bring up the three-point shooting for that reason because when Luke is on the court, you obviously are going to need to sit there in space. Kyrie can do a lot of other different things. And there are at times where it feels like Luca,

when he's finally triple-teamed in crunch time, is finally willing to give it up to someone. And in that instance, maybe having a Kyrie, a release valve who can go and hit that shot and who has hit those shots in huge moments in NBA history, that is where it will be advantageous. But otherwise, like having Exum, be the release valve, but then organizing a second unit, especially when you have other

growth stocks on this roster was, like looking up and down the roster, there are so many young guys who have more potential. Like, it's not just some of the rookies, like, lively, who's been pretty fantastic as a very young rookie company at this league. He's not an older rookie like pods. But even like a Grant Williams, like he's a guy who has more opportunity, like Omex Props for, there's a lot of guys on this roster who could grow alongside them. So I wonder, like, Would it make sense to a certain degree to lean more into that vision than the two-star version that they've built for themselves? I mean, I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that for four rounds, you can have Luca, you know, 40% usage and essentially be at the mercy of these guys, these role players, making shots for them to win. I don't think that's a recipe for, you know, deep playoff run success.

Again, you know, it's a month of basketball. People can have a hot month. I do think the best teams, you know, having Luca create every single opportunity for himself and others on every possession, you know, like I just don't think that's sustainable against the best defenses for four rounds, right? I think it does. somebody needs to, like, I don't know that you need to be the level of Kyrie in playmaking and ball handling responsibilities, but you need something. You know, as much as I've loved Dante X, I'm like the idea that he'd be the secondary creator on a team that goes to the finals seems absurd to me, as great as Luca is, right?

And so I'm still a believer that they need something. Maybe Kyrie might be overqualified for what that something is. I'm in agreement there, but I don't think it can just be Luca and the Pips for four straight rounds, you know, and this guy's not going to wear it down. Like, it's not as if he's had the best conditioning in his life to begin with, right? And so, you know, I think against the best teams, man, I think that's fools goal to think that you can just, this guy can just carry everyone to the promised land. And the regular season is great. And, you know, against the Lakers, like, this guy looked as unstoppable as I've ever seen him. There was just no one person they could throw in front of this dude that he didn't just dismantle immediately.

You know, to a certain point, it's just like, well, why are the Lakers sending a second guy him? Oh, that's right. Grant Williams and Dante X-M have made 15 threes in a row. Like, you know, again, that's just not good. You can't count on that, you know, for long stretches at a time. But when it looks good, it looks unstoppable. I kind of, I disagree a little bit. Like, I think that Luca, like, I'm not worried about the offense.

Like, and I think in the playoffs, Luca can go and take you to the conference finals pretty much by himself. Like, when he's on the court, he creates a great shot every single touch. Like, you blitz him, he's going to find the man on the slip, and they're going to be. get a wide open three. You drop. Whatever the coverage is, you switch. He's going to hit a stepback in your face. He's shooting like, I don't even know what he's shoot on the stepbacks going left, but it's like 60 or 80 percent or something like that this season. It's insane. I think just surrounding him more, like the defense is like at the end of the day what I'm more concerned about if I want to win the championship and I'm the Dallas Mavericks. And so

taking the $37 million, I'm paying Kyrie Irving and allocating that to big wings or beefy forwards or whoever switchable defenders long athletic guys. That's more of what I'd be interested in if I was Dallas. Because I do think that there is a little bit of an overlap with Kyrie. Financially as well, offensively, I don't think I need that. I think Luke is that good offensively. And he's proven it in the playoffs too. It's not like he hasn't dragged a team far or dragged lesser

teammates into competitive situations, like nearly beating the clippers twice, like by himself, basically. So, yeah, like, I don't know. I think that they're just in an interesting spot. And Exum's awesome. And I'm happy to see him play this way. Yeah. I mean, if anything, Exum has always been a unique athlete.

He is incredibly long. He's incredibly athletic. Just having some of the other stuff on the inside, the nuance of the, the, the, nuance of the game has really been what's set him back in his career. And obviously, he's starting to get that going. I will say the five wins that they've had without Kyrie, Portland, twice, Utah, Memphis, Lakers. So it's not exactly beating like the best of the league right now. So should we point that out? But they are 16 to 9 overall. That's third in the west above we should mention the Denver Nuggets. Just something to stew on for my friends here as we transition to this next topic, which is

Lori Markinen, a guy who I think is actually in the trade market or on the trade market as opposed to maybe Kyrie. The reports basically suggest that Utah is from Yahoo. This is from Andy Larson at the Salt Lake Tribune that they're not shopping, Lori Marketing, but they're willing to listen on him, which is an indifference from in past years where I think they would have worded off people and said he was intouchable foundation of the team, yada, yada, yada. Mike, you wrote about this recently in one of your pieces. And it wasn't until I read your proposed trade, who I believe it was for the Warriors, that I hadn't considered Lowry as a potential guy on this market,

if only because I thought Utah, he was such a success story that they wouldn't give him up. But do you think it makes sense to turn the page on market, especially considering the way the market's working with? There aren't a lot of star talents out there to really take your team from good to great. Yeah, if I'm, I mean, first of all, like, who's, who's making the calls here? It's Danny Hange. And, like, fundamentally, Danny Hange looks at it and he's like, is Lowry marketing going to be on my basketball team when we're making deep playoff runs? I think if you look at the situation, the answer is no. Like, I understand the reports about them being, quote, unquote, interested in Dame or Drew Holiday. But even if they got those guys, like, come on, like, what are we talking about here? So I start from that point And I'm like, Larry Markenden's got to be like

Knowing Danny and his track record And just like the How attractive it is to cash out on someone At their high point and value Before they even have to Like he's not even on a max contract right now And next year he's making like $18 million or whatever it is So I just I

It just makes a lot of sense to me that Utah would want to continue to play the long game at this point, continue to add to their just absolutely really ridiculous stockpile of draft picks. And like the trade I proposed with the Golden State Warriors, like I don't know if that's enough necessarily. I think it was Cominga, Moody, GP2, and two unprotected first round picks.

Like I honestly think that there's, there could be teams out there that have, more draft equity to give up that could be more attractive, more blue-chip prospects, frankly. Like, what's so great about Lowry is he fits everywhere because of his shooting, because of his size, he can play with just about anyone in any type of lineup. And like, like, before the Celtics got Chris Stap's Porzengis, Lowry Markinen was someone that they were eyeing with all their draft picks. It's like, let's give four draft picks to the jazz for Lowry Marketing.

like he just makes so much sense besides other star talent and he can elevate you so a team like the heat a team like i don't know i'm just i could rattle off any nip any number of teams like the thunder the thunder and larry marketing are like an unbelievable pairing in my opinion um the warriors etc so he's awesome he's really good he's such a mismatch um nightmare for basically everyone and it'll be really fascinating to see if utah actually does pull the trigger now But I think they will eventually. Like, I don't think they're resigning him to a max contract. That just doesn't seem logical to me.

Yeah, he's an attractive player for all the reasons Mike just stated. The reason why I don't know if the trade will happen is because the GMs that have the most job security tend to want the most shit for their players, right? think Maasai, think Sam Presti. They're always like, oh, I need like 20 million picks as the price, even if it means the guy walks for nothing. And so I could see Aange being like, yo, I want like four first round picks for this guy.

And the team that can make it happen is OKC, but the only person that likes picks more than Aange is San Presti. So I just don't know how a deal gets done. Maybe next year when, you know, he's on the last year of his deal and the jazz will feel more pressure to come down from their asking price. I could see something coming. But right now, like the track record says they need to be bowled over by and off. And the people that can bowl them over are, you know, like I said, like, OK, see, they loathe giving up picks. You know, Sam Presti, he want to get picks till 2053, you know.

So I don't know how these guys come to a deal, but that would make perfect sense for what they do because he's not a possessing innings eater, possessions eater type of guy. He works off of other people so beautifully. And when he has to, he can do some one-on-one. He has one-on-one capabilities now. Oh, yeah.

He can make the All-Star team for nothing. So, yeah, he's a beautiful fit with anybody who has major aspirations in the post season. You could throw the Lakers in that mix, everybody. if they had anything to trade, but continue. Hey man, Austin Reeves. He might be back in the starting lineup soon, considering how well he's playing. I love when people talk about Danny Aange, and it's like, oh, my God, he'll just do anything.

He's a, he's a gunslinger. And then it's just like you read the actual report. And it's like he had a conversation about trading a player. This is literally what GM does. But I would say of all the teams that you guys mentioned, I think my. Miami makes the most sense there. They're the team to me that's just out there, just waiting and probably fits the right timeline to be doing something for this season. They've been very good this year. But to get into the top level of the east, to the bucks, to the Celtics, having a Lowry, having, God forbid, is Zach Levine considering that his price at this point might be like a second round pick and just willing to pay for his rehab? Just like having some sort of upgrade there, I think would be nice. can I ask you guys would you include

Jaime Hockes Jr. in a trade for Lowry Markinen? Of course. Of course. Of course. He's out of here. Are you kidding me? No.

We're talking about it. Unless you're getting LeBron back. No. Oh my God. Jaime Hockaz is Austin Reeves now? What are we doing? What are we doing?

No one, man. Wow. Wow. I think he's really, really good. I would do everything I could not to include him in a trade for Lowry, and I would consider not doing the... I think that's a potential deal breaker for me, to be honest with you. He's really, really, really good.

Oh, yeah. I think... I think he's really good. The real Triple J right now. He's... He's an awesome... He needs to get that trademark. Awesome winning basketball player, yeah.

I didn't even think that would be that controversial. That's like a cost-controlled, two-way, six, seven, great size, shoots, puts it on the deck, makes others better already. They're showing clips of him driving in the basket, next to, like, side by side with Jimmy Butler looks exactly the same. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I guess if there was, if you're going to argue against it, maybe that's why, like, do you, need a successor for Jimmy when you are really in the mix here in the playoff series, is Jaime like for sure going to be in the closing five?

Or is it more of a like, oh, well, we could slot in Caleb Martin. He's actually probably better defending against this type of player. And if that's the case and you're just playing for the now, then like, yeah, I understand it. But maybe the heat don't have to play for the now. Maybe this doesn't have to be this season. Maybe they should be thinking two, three years down the line. To me, if you're the heat, you kind of grow these dudes on trees.

So, like, if you can get legitimate all-star talent into the building and much respect to Jaime Hakez, I don't think anybody thinks he's going to make an all-star team anytime soon. You do it. Like, to me, that's why. You should hear some of the things. You should hear some of the things that the heat think about his future. It's pretty, it's not Tyler Hero is Devin Booker, but it's pretty close. It's pretty close.

I'm not going to lie. Is it we should resign Dion Waiter? to however much you made level. It's James Johnson back. James Johnson back in the league somehow. Back in the league. Let's just roll that entire heat era back. They got into that scrap and they said,

all right, let's go get a black belt. Let's get ready for the next one. Well, since we're talking about outstanding rookies, we should talk finally here about Victor Webbenyama, who four games at center and I think he is a cross between Moses, Boulogne and Hakeem Olajuwon and also Steph Curry. No, so four games,

19.8 points, 16.5 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 4.5 blocks since they demoted Zach Collins to the bench and started playing Victor as true five. The defense has been the big difference. Their fifth in defensive rating over,

again, four games. This is literally four games. and otherwise they are 24th on defense was. I want to go to you first because you're the Victor expert on staff. Are you believing in the Victor at center experience? No, of course, I am. The guy's 7 foot 6, okay, with a 9 foot wingspan. He's a center.

He was always going to be a center. I respect the Spurs program of sort of, you know, easing him into the situation, but he's taking the proverbial training wheels off and he's playing a censor role. And that's what he should be doing because ultimately for the spurs to reach their full potential in the Wembeyanama era is going to be with him at the five. And so, you know, 20-something games in, us getting to this point is only right, in my opinion. And that he's thriving, I'm not that surprised. Like, he's gotten his seed legs under him. and he's learning as he goes, but he's supremely talented.

And so I'm not shocked that he's grabbing every rebound and he's swatting every shot at this point. This is his natural position. This is where he's ultimately going to thrive. This is how he takes the spurs into the stratosphere of championship contender status. And so, yeah, I'm not surprised. I will just add one thing. My guy Chet played center coming out the gate, but that's neither here nor there. Okay.

I mean, yeah, he should play center. It's funny, like they still don't run plays for him even when he's at the five. They don't, he's not like even doing traditional stuff, like setting ball screens and rolling to the basket. He still has no point guard. But yeah, I'm bullish on this and him sustaining these numbers, frankly, like, particularly the rebounding and the blocks, like his block rate as a center nearly doubles than when he's at the four. and he'll be more efficient. Like the percentage of his shots at the rim also nearly doubles when he's at the five.

And I have a stat for you guys that's actually kind of jaw-dropping, at least my jaw dropped when I read it. But when he's on the court at the five with Trey Jones at point guard, the spurs have the 17th best offense, like basically the Minnesota Timberwolves offense this season, and the third best defense. Their net rating is better than the bucks and the Nuggets.

That's a 166 minute sample size, so not a lot at all. But it's just like the spurs are not trying to win basketball games this season. So it's really difficult to take too seriously anything that's going on with them. Like, Devin Vesel comes back from his injury. Five games, he's coming off the bench for no reason. Like, what is happening? Like, I don't understand.

So, yeah, he should play the five. If he plays the five, he'll win rookie of the year easily. Sorry to the Chet fan base. I'm sorry about that one. He's not doing this, are you? He's going to easily win it. Easily. Easily win it.

Oh, my goodness. He'll easily win rookie of the year if he's at the five. Okay. And has no MVP candidate on his roster either, I should say. So he doesn't have that advantage when. But he's not a plus NBA player yet. What about so? So, exactly.

You know, my guy, Chetty is playing at an all-star level. He's playing, he has all-star numbers as a rookie. Like, he's playing at an all-star rate right now. This guy is... Hey, nothing against Chet. Chet's okay. He's all right. Okay, okay.

You put Victor Wambaynabana, Vembenyama on the Thunder, and it's like, oh, we don't even need to play the rest of the season. The Thunder just won the NBA championship, so... Yeah. I get pacing out Wemby's center-only minutes, I guess, because you want to like limit the pounding or maybe over the first 20 or so games, you just wanted to get him his sea legs under him, his very long sea legs where he's just walking on the top of the ocean, I guess.

On the other hand, it is incredibly annoying that they could just turn certain knobs and all of a sudden be a perfectly reasonable basketball team. And as much as I would want to believe, this is about like integrating. Victor before really throwing him into the deep end and letting him just take the pounding of an Anthony Davis at center and just like dealing with drivers coming at him and whatnot. Like, I don't think it's a coincidence this happened in order to break their losing streak that it got so bad that they had to recreate, correct everything. And then just, I wonder if anything, they'll go back to the previous version in order to

keep racking up wins. It's just like, Pop is very much running a big top right here. And I kind of respect it because of how like, how. ridiculous it is and how transparent it is. And especially as the pistons go through this still losing, trying desperately to win a game. It's the point where they're now relying on James

Wiseman coming off the bench again. I don't know what the hell is going on there. But at the very least, there seems to be like a conscious plan with the spurs here where it's just like, yeah, we're just going to pace this out. And then if we lose 100 games, not a big deal because this is a long-term project.

I agree. I got nothing else. I got nothing else on the Zach Collins lead spurs. I'm, you know. All right. Let's, why don't we wrap it there then? Big finish. Before we go, just a reminder, mailbag,

mailbag on Wednesday, Ringer GroupChat at gmail.com. And please, if you are a social media maven, like our friend Waz here, follow the Ringer MBA on Instagram and TikTok. It's at Ringer MBA. We'll be back on. Wednesday. Thank you to Jack Sanders. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Michael Pina for jumping in here. We'll be back.