The Ringer NBA Show - Is This Your King? The Clippers Win the Battle for L.A. | The Mismatch

Episode Date: March 5, 2019

The Clippers add one more blow to the Lakers’ playoffs hopes (1:40) while the Boston Celtics’ chemistry issues continue to fester (31:15). Plus: takeaways from the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference (43:05). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. This is The Mismatch. I'm Chris Furnan. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O'Conflict, A.k.a. Kevin O. Bumble. A.k.a. Kevin O. C.K.A. Kevin O. Crimer. And I understand, as of last night, you have competition in the climbing business.

Oh, I do, Chris. I mean, everything was leading up to last night. All of theatrics. I was worried we were going to be let. down, but then Colton finally hopped that fence. And it did not let down. What does it even mean? I don't even understand.

All season long, the Bachelor hyped up this moment where Colton hops a fence and just runs into nowhere. Like he rips off his microphone and all this stuff. And like, it's like, they do this all the time. You're expecting to be let down. But boy, no. It did not let down. It was one of the greatest episodes in Bachelor history.

That's for sure. He is the bat. Now this guy is the bachelor. Yeah. Colton Underwood is a former NFL player. Oh. He's a bachelor, yeah, and he's down to the final three. And he hopped that fence, man.

It was better than my fence hopping moment. Let's just say that. Way more graceful as well, though we did not see his landing. This was not at Oracle Arena that this took place? No. Okay. It was in Portugal, I believe. Oh, Portugal?

Much more scenic than Oracle Arena as well. Yes. Oh, wow. But, boy, it did not let down. That's for damn sure. All right. Where did he go, by the way? I want to know.

We don't know yet. We'll find out next week. Next Monday. Okay. Playoff mode was activated, Kevin. You may have heard a couple of weeks ago. But sometimes things get activated that don't end up working out. And it appears at playoff mode has been deactivated possibly.

You have Kyle Kuzma literally pushing LeBron into his defensive assignment last night. You have Pat Beverly loving the booze raining down on the Lakers. he ends up with 13 points, nine rebounds, five steals, five assists. And Montrez-Herald after the game said Pat Bev walked into the locker room. And before he could even see the assignments on the board or anything, he said, I've got LeBron tonight. So, and to his credit, he pestered him the entire night. As of last night, the Lakers are five and a half games back.

18 games left. And last night, the questions turned to basically, hey, do you think the... just shut you down for the rest of the year. And LeBron has to say, I'll talk to Luke about it, but I have no interest in sitting down. And obviously, we're up against it right now, but we're going to try to make a push and yada, yada, yada. Listen, they've lost nine to their last 12.

They have lost to the sons. We keep on saying, this is a huge game for the Lakers, and then they lose it. And obviously last night felt like possibly the last straw. Well, I mean, to tie this to the Bachelor, the Lakers' playoff hopes are Hannah G. Nowhere to be found. An afterthought, long gone.

The playoffs are in nobody to the Los Angeles Lakers. Speaking my language, I don't even know who that is. Well, here's the thing, though, Chris. Because the playoffs are long gone, the Lakers should have only one priority. And that priority is Anthony Davis. But here's the problem, though. AD is like they're Cassie, the one they want,

but they don't have. But Colton's going to drop everything. and everyone else to chase Cassie, just like the Lakers need to do everything they can to chase AD, Chris. And that means increasing their odds of landing a high draft pick. And how do you do that, Chris? How do you do that? You lose. It's time to play Mo Wagner for 35 minutes a game.

It's time to let Lance Stevenson be who he thinks he was born ready to be. It's time for LeBron James to rest his aching groin. It's time to sign Carmelo. It's time to tank. There's nothing to gain, Chris, from making the playoffs. nothing. They get a higher draft odds to have a better chance at getting AD, and if they don't get the pick or they don't get AD, at least they can still have Tasia. Let's get to the real story of last night, which is Isaac Lee, who loves his beloved clippers with every ounce of his

heart, and that was a massive game. There's nothing more than he loves than defeating the Los Angeles Lakers and taking the Los Angeles crown. The first question, is, Isaac, do you still have an erection? Colton doesn't. That's for sure. Oh, man. If you were asking me if I'm feeling good, like, yeah, I woke up this morning just all energized.

I walked in here and I imitated Pat Beverly. I was like, hell yeah, hell yeah. It's true. So, yeah, I didn't need to do that. It's true. Do you know that I read this morning? Now, this should be old hat for you, I suppose. I read this morning, is this true in the last 27 games that they have played?

The Clippers are 23 and 4? Yeah, because we play each other, what, four times a year. And for the last five, six, maybe seven years now, since the 13, 14 season, the Clippers have been better. I know one's been good and one's been bad, but you're playing in that arena, which obviously should not be that big of a home court advantage for the Clippers, right? a lot of Lakers fans go to Lakers Clippers games. Yeah, but then it's not that big of a home quarter advantage for Lakers fans either because a lot of Clippers fans go.

Oh, it's not? Yeah. See, I thought that would be different because I, obviously, the Lakers sell a lot more tickets. Of course. That stands to reason. But also, it feels like it's a lot harder to get Lakers tickets, as we know. Yeah, because they're more expensive. But Clippers fans do still go. They do go to those games?

Yeah. All right. Well, if we're counting the Lakers out of this, Kev. They're done. They're gone. Okay, well, now we got the tank, Chris. The Kings are three back from the Spurs. So is it Kings or Spurs that get one of those spots?

Or they're three and a half back from the Clippers, four back from the Jazz. Obviously, once you get a little bit higher in the standings and look at those teams ahead, it gets much harder. So the Kings would still be the one that would have the opportunity. As I said, they're three back from San Antonio. San Antonio got a good win last night against Denver that they really needed considering the Kings. Yeah, because the Kings won their game behind a big Buddy Healed performance. I mean, you're talking that's a two-game difference if the Spurs dropped that game last night to Denver. And they were mangling them in the first quarter.

And then it obviously goes down to the last shot. Kings still in it, you know, being three back, do you think they can get there? They're four back in the win column. Yeah, I mean, for what it's worth, just to set the table here, the Kings have 19 games left. The Spurs have 17. So they have two games. If they win those two extra games, they'll be back only two games. so it's not as drastic of a difference as it might seem.

However, both those teams have about equal schedules in terms of difficulty the rest of the way. But the Kings over their last 10 games, that's when their schedule gets pretty tough over the last 10. So I would give the Spurs an edge here, obviously, because they already are up in the standings. But I wouldn't rule out Sacramento, but I think their last group of games is really, really difficult. When you look at they face Houston twice, Utah, Portland. There's a tough group of games over those final 10 or so games for the Sacramento Kings to really get over the hump.

And I suppose, especially after last night, Isaac, you're feeling good about your clippers being able to hold onto a playoff spot? Absolutely. I feel like the team got better at the trade deadline which is crazy, right? Shannon's been so good. Yeah, Shannon's been amazing.

It's super crazy because they obviously got rid of their leading scorer and leading rebounder in Tobias Harris. and yet you now have gotten Lou Williams. In 11 February games, Lou Williams averaged 25 points and 6 assists a game and shot 42% from 3. Yeah.

I mean, that is insanity. Well, what I think happened with the Tobias Harris trade was that Tobias Harris needed a lot of setting up from his teammates. A lot of plays were run to get Tobias good shots, to get efficient shots for Tobias. And he made them to his credit. But now that they don't have to expend their energy

on trying to get him going, they can get other people going, they can get Lou going. There's been a lot of plays where Lou Williams just gets the ball on the top of the key and then they run like 15 picks for him so that he can get to the rim.

And Shammett's been knocked down. I had no idea Shammett was that good of a shooter. I knew he was good. I just didn't know that he was going to drain everything that touch his hand. There was a part of me that regrets this. Kevin, you'll love this.

And I might have talked to you before I wrote the article last year about my guys that wouldn't fail and I had sham it on the list and I talked to people in college basketball and I talked to some people that knew him very well and they said well if you want this to stand the test of time the only thing I'd worry about was he had like real injuries yeah like he had missed two basically two full seasons he should have been on one of the van vleet teams like the Kli Anthony early and that whole team and he had missed a season and then he missed basically a whole other season and so if you've

already had those injuries in college. Now it's worthy of concern for the next level. The kid is obviously a really good player. The concern is health. And so I bailed on it. And now in retrospect, you know, I watch him because obviously, listen, those Wichita teams were great. And you see Wichita, I don't know how much you guys pay attention, but they're having their first losing season in forever this year. For what it's worked with Shammett, he had surgery for a stress fracture and his left foot in 2015, and then the same surgery on his right foot in 2017. So he's had two...

That's scary stuff. Yeah, yeah, it is. And I think whoever said that to you or the people that did say that to you are in the right. That was my concern with Shammett in the draft and why I had him ranked a little bit lower than I probably should have.

I mean, I think one of the things that Tim Conley said to me when I interviewed him for the Nuggett story in regards to Michael Porter, as he was quoting another executive who said to him, well, with Michael Porter, there's an injury concern, There's no basketball concern. And with Shamit, that same logic applies to him.

It's like, yeah, for a late first round pick, yeah, he might have injury concern. But you know what? Like, this dude can obviously play basketball. He can shoot the hell out of the ball. He can run off screens. He can spot up. And, like, the thing that makes him different, in my opinion, he's not just a spot-up guy. He can handle and playmate a little bit, too, as a secondary ball handling option.

And with somebody like him, getting him in the late first round, like Philadelphia did, and now the clubbers acquiring him. He's somebody that for a long, long time, as long as he stays healthy, there's going to be a role for him in the league. Yeah, you know, everybody's going to make it all about LeBron and last night and the Lakers failures, etc., etc. But I did want to at least give a shout-out,

not only because Isaac, you know, is a producer, but because I think the clippers deserve an immense amount of credit. It felt like maybe they were punting on a season at the trade deadline. It's like we talked about all year with them. They just have a lot of good players. up and down their roster. We didn't mention Montres Harrell, by the way. It's obviously, listen, since the trade,

you have seen Lou Williams explode and Harrell explode. Harold, I mean, like, him at Louisville, he was a guy that is hard not to like him just with the energy he played with that we see every single moment he's on the floor today. But he's come so far with his skill development, like passing off the short role and reading the floor on both ends. I think Montrez-Harrel, he has one year left on his contract,

which is very team-friendly next summer in 2020, that guy, if I'm a team that wants a rim-running center that can do a little bit more on the floor, I'm paying that dude. Yep. And switch over for the Lakers. Who do you think ends up paying for this? Let's say that it plays out.

It's Lou Walton. You think he's the... Oh, no doubt. No doubt about it. He's the sacrificial lambies. Yeah, absolutely. It's like Mark Stein reported yesterday. The expectation is that he'll be fired at the end of the season.

That's the expectation. well and you know that I was reading Ramona Shelburne's article this morning about the Lakers and everything that happened and this idea that LeBron wanted these guys that are known for toughness, etc., etc. And that they did his bidding

by going out and getting some of these guys on one-year contracts, etc. To build this team, but that the team ended up needing shooting. And so then they go and try to get Reggie Bullock and they go try to get Mike Muscala. O for seven last night from Bullock. Yeah. And that that didn't take either.

I will tell you, I was watching some games last night, one of which was, and I know this is going to sound like a weird one to pay attention to, but I was watching Brooklyn versus Dallas. And the reason is with about 20 games left in the season or less, you try to figure out, or at least I am trying to figure out, okay, who's like punting on the season? And you can just tell that it's just like, okay, let's get to the finish line here. And who's going to like play this thing out? So you see the pelicans go and they win at Denver and then they win at. at Utah, two, like, crazy impressive wins. And then you see even the Wizards the other night put up almost 140 on the Timberwolves. And so I'm thinking of myself, like, are they playing this thing out?

And so anyways, the Grizzlies destroyed the Mavericks over the weekend by like 30. And I'm like, all right, was that just a one-off? Or is this just a team that's punted on the season? And I was like, well, I'll pay attention to Brooklyn to see what's what. And, I mean, they got slaughtered again by like, all. almost 40 points last night. And obviously, Carlisle's quotes after the game were like, you know, listen, I know that they're not very good.

I know they're starting dirt. I also know when you lose by those kind of margins in the NBA, that's just not trying. The effort stinks. And it has. And so maybe they are one to watch that have just, you know, they've given up on the year. That's why I was paying attention to see what would happen in that. I know that Brooklyn needs every game like blood. But Dallas, who I had just seen lose by 30.

I was like, all right, was that just a one-off? And it wasn't a one-off because they were even worse last night. Oh, I mean, that gets back to the Lakers and Clippers, too. Patrick Beverly said after the game, we just want it more than they do. And it does seem like that watching these games, which is like, you know, back to my bachelor analogy. Right now, the Lakers are at the point where they are too far removed from the playoffs to really have a chance. And if we're being real here, what is there to gain? What is there to gain from the Lakers getting the eight seed, getting a spanking from the Warriors in round one?

What is there to gain from that? I am of the opinion that when you get to the playoffs, that having those young guys in those kind of environment. I get it, but you might not get to, Kev. You might not get to. But that's the goal. And like, that's my point. Like, what there is to gain is higher odds at getting a guy you're probably not

going to get unless you do land a top four pick. Because in this year's draft, like Zion is clearly number one. But after the top four or five guys, it pretty much plateaus. And I talked to a lot of people this weekend at Sloan that pretty much feel the same way that, you know, maybe like from six to 20 or six to 30 or six to 15, there's not a big difference in talent. So for the Lakers to get another asset to give themselves a chance at getting Anthony Davis in a trade, maybe it comes from the lottery. And right now in their spot, they have the 13th best lottery odds. There's only only 4.8%. But if they lose it. just a couple more games, that can go to like 20% or 26% if they're able to get to like the

ninth worst odds or the 10th worst odds. For the Lakers, there's just so much more to gain from just tanking out the rest of the season. It's not easy to do when you have LeBron James and Brennan Ingram's playing well and Coosman's playing well too. But man, for the Lakers long term, it really might be in their best interest to just lose out the rest of the way, man. Well, this is just obviously a difference of philosophy with you and I, but I would, I was obviously try to play it out. I would try to go nine and one. I'd try to go 10 and oh. It seems impossible, but I'd still try to do it. I would still try to do it to end off the season. And that would be great. Being in a playoff race is good for your players. And if you

made the playoffs, it's still good for them to get that playoff experience because you never know the way it's all going to play out. And I don't think that losing on purpose for a minuscule chance at one player is worth it. You were the one last week who laughed at me when I was the one who was like, theoretically, if the Lakers were able to grab the seven seed and they upset in round one and then upset in round two? No, because you were talking about the Western Conference finals, which is just stupid. Yeah, but you don't say you don't ever know what's going to happen. That's what I was saying last week. No, I'm saying with players.

That's what I'm saying. I know what's going to happen with them in the playoffs. I don't know what's going to happen with their players in the off season. You can say, oh, they're just going to trade them off, but what if they don't? You'd still want them playing out the season. You'd still want them maybe getting playoff experience. What is four games against Golden State going to do? What are you going to gain from four games against Golden State?

Because every one of these young teams have taken their lumps in the playoffs before they went ahead. It's never the first year. You don't make that run the first year. You take your lumps. Sometimes you do get swept. So what? And I'm with you that there's experience to be gained. But the point is that they want to trade these guys for Anthony Davis.

That's the goal. That's the ultimate goal. That's the dream this summer. That's their Cassie. They wanted to do a month ago and had that workout. Well, it didn't work last month. Right. So now it's going to work out this summer?

It couldn't. Sure. Absolutely. Have you seen Brandon Ingram the last 20 or so games? I have seen Brandon. Soon enough, there's going to be that conversation. Is Ingram actually a better asset than Jason Tatum? Because he very well might be. Come, let's slow down.

Let's slow down. I know that everybody's down on everything Celtics right now. Tatum showed us in big playoff spots. He was the best player on the floor in some of those games. And I'm with you. Because Tatum, he has the premium skills. in his go-to scoring ability. However, it's like we said at the time of the deadline,

I don't think the gap is nearly as significant as some people are making it out to be. And so my point is this, though, to increase your odds of landing that big fish, of landing Anthony Davis, it might require having a higher draft pick. That's all. All right.

Well, obviously you are putting some level of faith in the Lakers front office. And as I was watching that Brooklyn and Mavs game last night, I couldn't help but think to myself, wow. They had DeAngelo Russell once upon a time, which was the Mazgolf deal, right? And you think about, you think about... And Brooke Lopez on Milwaukee and Julius Randall.

How about this? How about this? Do you go back just a couple years? DeAngelo Russell, Julius Randall, Brooke Lopez, Thomas Bryant, even earlier this year, Zubach, which I don't know why they traded him. How about this one? The 1617 team, which we're just two years removed from, you know who they had? Lou friggin' William. who they gave up for Corey Brewer

and a first rounder. A couple years from now, who knows maybe we'll also be saying they had Sfima Kailuk. We can be saying that. I mean, they traded Zubach for Mike Muscala, and he's obviously better than Mike Mascala. And then you have the Lou Williams deal.

That was Houston for Corey Brewer and a first round pick. That first round pick turned out to be Tony Bradley, which then they flipped that for Thomas Bryant, who's no longer there, and Josh Hart. So you ended up,

basically with Lou Williams for Josh Hart. You think that's a good deal? So you really don't think there's anything for the Lakers to gain from losing just a couple games. Just falling down the standing in a couple spots to increase odds from like 5% to 20%. You don't think there's no value in that? How are they getting to 20%? Because that's the way the odds work.

No, hold on now. They've won 30 games. Yes. They've won 30 games. Kevin. Right now there are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7. Let's pause for a second here. Hold on, 8, 9, 10. There are 10 teams in front of them, Kevin. Exactly. Let's pause for a second here, okay? Right now the Lakers are one game back from New Orleans,

who have a 20.3% chance at landing a top four pick with the ninth worst lottery odds, because with the flattened odds, it's 14% up top, which increases the chances in the middle of the lottery. So the point is that there's a drastic difference between that nine spot and that 13 spot where the Lakers are now. But there's not a big difference in the game separating those teams. It is very close in the standings there for like, however that's going to shake out. That's why Dallas looking like playing Dirk 45 minutes per game is not the worst idea because they also, if they win a couple here and there, their odds could drop from 26% to 10% easily because they're only two games ahead of Minnesota and Charlotte right now.

So there's value for the Lakers, value for Dallas, value for New Orleans. and losing a couple more games here and there because of the drastic difference and the odds between that 12, 13, 14 range and the 8, 9, 10, 11 range. I'm looking right now, and it says if you got the ninth worst, you got a 4.5% chance.

No, I'm talking about the top four, not number one, for top four. So it's 20.3% for top four. Yes, you're right, it's only 4.5% for number one overall, but it's 20.3% for top four because now the top four picks are being drawn in the lottery instead of the top three. So theoretically, like the Miami Heat, like they have a 9.9% chance right now.

They could theoretically land the fourth pick in the lottery. Right. That's why it's because of the changing lottery odds. It's not necessarily for a chance at Zion. It's a chance for John Morant or RJ Barrett or somebody else who they may value highly. That's where I'm coming from, getting that additional asset to, use an AD trade or trade for somebody else. I just think the increased odds of that are more valuable than making a push for the playoffs and

probably missing anyway. Like they're just not going to make the playoffs. There's not enough games left. They're just not. Their schedule is pretty tough too in comparison to the Kings and the Spurs, these teams ahead of them in the standings. I just don't see a path to the Lakers. They blew it.

And I think it's a failure that they didn't make the playoffs. But with this failure could come a reward if they are. locking out on lottery night and do end up laying a top four pick. That could be their ticket to ultimately having more assets to put in a trade than the Celtics do for Anthony Davis or having enough assets that I think maybe Anthony Davis can or in clutch can try to go all in pushing him to the Lakers, which may diminish the odds that the Celtics are willing to put Tatum and everything else on the table. I just think I'd feel a little bit differently if I thought that those teams ahead of them, if those teams ahead of them were so locked in and they were playing so great.

Now, again, I'm with you. They've got a minuscule, minuscule, minuscule chance. I get it. But those teams are losing records in their last 10 games, both the Kings and the Spurs. And that's the Spurs after winning three in a row. I mean, they just went like one in six or something. They were one and six in the seven games before that. One and six in the seven games before that.

So that would be my cause for pause and just, say, hey, you know what, I'd still play it out just in case. Because I don't think the Lakers' problem is assets. They've got assets, man. Yeah, they do. They do. In terms of being able to do stuff. You know, I think part of it for me is this, though.

It's like they have assets. And, you know, on trade deadline, the conversation was about how New Orleans wanted four first-round draft picks, right? And if, let's say this summer, the Lakers end up getting the eighth seed, and they end up giving three first or whatever it takes to get AD, and they do get AD. If you're giving up all those future assets, that is crazy. crippling your flexibility moving forward. And so I think even if you're able to give up like the eighth pick this year,

maybe it means you're not giving up those future picks down the line because retaining those assets allows you to be more flexible in the moves you make down the line. It allows you to trade those picks for other players to help you build a championship team. There's just a domino effect from having a greater asset this year, whether it's like the ninth pick or whether it's landing like the second pick in the draft. It allows you to keep other stuff to have a strong, overall team. So that's really where I'm coming from here. It's it's about building the strongest possible team. And I just think there's more potential reward and higher odds at a higher

pick than there is at making a push for the playoffs and probably definitely I would say not probably missing the playoffs. Definitely missing the playoffs. They're just not going to make it. Okay. So now let's talk about real odds. At what day it is Tuesday, March 5th right now. what day does the story come out that LeBron James is very hurt and that he was playing through it to try to make the playoffs, but he's actually really hurt. And that's why you saw Kyle Kuzma pushing him to play defense and whatever, right? I mean, this is the guy that wore the cast after they lost last year with the broken hand that, I guess, healed just fine. No one never really talked about the broken hand ever again. So now I'm aware that he had the hamstring injury.

When do we get the story that he shouldn't have been playing on it anyway? And the reason the Lakers suck this year is because LeBron's hurt. How about this? Monday morning, next Monday, because they face Denver on Wednesday and Boston on Saturday. If they drop both those games. Oh, boy. I say under. I'll say by the weekend then.

Okay. All right. You've got Monday. I've got by the weekend. So Saturday's ABC game, Celtics versus Lakers. LeBron's not playing. Yes. I'm sure the NBA wouldn't be happy about that.

You know what's interesting to me, though, Chris, is if I'm a LeBron, when do I start questioning? Like, everything I just said about, you know, the logic of having a higher pick and allowing you to retain assets, when does LeBron start questioning if his front office has the foresight to build that winning team? I think he did a month ago. When does he start? I think he did a month ago. Oh, you'll get that one, too. We'll get that story, too, right?

LeBron's really iffy on what's going on. I mean, I... Questioning Magic Johnson, questioning Polanka, questioning Luke Walton. You know what's funny? Someday when LeBron's an older, there's going to be a star player saying this about him.

Questioning LeBron's ability to build a team. Yeah, for that game on Saturday between the Lakers and the Celtics that you were talking about, LeBron's going to show up with a leg cast and a glass of wine. That's what's going to happen. After the game, though, he'll still be posting his happy, love and life Instagram stories, though.

I think that's probably so. Also, a couple things that happened last night. Dwayne Wade became the all-time blocks leader for guards. Past Michael Jordan, 877. It was B.J. Johnson that he blocked from Atlanta, which is the 449th player that he has blocked. And there are two guys he has blocked more than anyone else. 12 times each they were blocked by Dwayne Wade. You want to take a stab at it?

I have no clue. Fire away, Chris. Joe Johnson and Ben Gordon. Ben, wow. I never, I never, I never would have guessed either of them. Each got blocked 12 times each by Dwayne Wade throughout his NBA career. Ben, Dwayne. Also, a story came out yesterday about the Golden State Warriors and possibly bringing in Andrew Bogut.

Quick thought on that. Well, I mean, nice big man depth at least. with Boogie, it's been very, very up and down for him, as you would expect. And with Bogot, you know, more depth at center. I think it beats some of the other options. All right. You know, you know he said screens. You know that.

He even said some really, really nice screens. The legal ones. Yes. He is the best illegal screener there is. The greatest legal screener of all time. Yeah. No, I think that's someone like Kevin Garnett would have an argument for that, too. That's a lot of great legal screens, to be fair.

Yeah. Cousins is up there. Cousins is a good one. Cousins is up there. They have some good ones. By the way, speaking of records of passing Michael Jordan, LeBron James is only 12 points back from MJ and all-time regular season points.

And so Wednesday night, he'll likely pass Michael Jordan when the Lakers face the Denver Nuggets. Oh, so now we know why he's not going to rest yet. Yeah, get one more game, and then. And then time to rest. Okay, and we can really celebrate him after that. That would be so. Do not.

Don't take LeBron James for granted, Chris. Well, you need to just drive over there to the Staples Center and tell Magic and Polinka that. Right? They just pissed away one of his last prime years. I know, I know. It's a failure and I must have playoffs. It really is. It's not the East, man.

It is not the East. All right, we've got to take a quick break when we come back. We're going to talk about Kevin's article with what's really the matter with the Celtics. I've got to ask him some questions on that. Also, his experience at the Sloan Conference after these words. Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Microsoft Surface. The new Microsoft Surface Pro 6 can help you get things done whether you're on the field or running a business. Take Brian Arakpo and Michael Griffin, two former NFL teammates who have opened up a cupcake shop.

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But everybody is focusing on Kyrie Irving. And some of the stuff that you wrote about that was the most fascinating. Because it makes me think about when you're the man, you get all of the heat. And that it's probably a very different experience, especially in Boston, which is not an easy town. And everything you do is dissected. And that that could have had an effect on him, that post the whole Nick's question coming up and then his reaction to that, since that moment, there has been a, I guess, a new level of despondence. that has been shown by Kyrie, and that has led in some ways probably to the Morris saying,

this isn't fun and nobody talking in the locker room, etc. Yeah, people that I talked to did say it was around that time when Kyrie's personality did seem to change. That doesn't necessarily have to do with the questions about him going to the NICS or the possibility of teaming up with KD, but I think it was the escalated media coverage that seemed to really tick him off. The other thing that was very fascinating to me, reading that was somebody told you that they think his only friend on the team, like friend,

is Tatum. I would say more that he's closest with Tatum. Like that is the deepest friendship, whereas of others, put it this way. I think with the Celtics roster, somebody said this recently. I forget who said it, but it's like a group of individuals rather than a team. Yeah, not everybody has to hang out and not everybody has to go out with each other after games and not everybody has to be best buddies. They don't have to, you don't have to be friends.

You have to be friendly. You know what I mean? With each other. You have to at least not resent each other. Though in past years of this team, I think you would see guys like on the road and hotel lobbies together. But this year, that's not the case

with like the star players. I think the bench players have some chemistry. Like, you can even see this during games. It's like Gershaw and Yves Sele goes nuts. Like some of these bench guys are good cheerleaders off the bench, but it's the chemistry with, like the top eight guys on the roster,

that is not so good. Sometimes I do think you have to kind of force that too. And that may be something that, you know, Brad Stevens. Forcing chemistry or... Yeah, no, no, no. I'm talking about togetherness as a team, right? The idea that, because you hear all these stories.

I do think you can greatly encourage. The Spurs, they have all manner of team dinners when they go out on the road together. And team events that they do together. Those old heat teams with Spolstra and, obviously it's a Riley trick, right? You get them together and you get these guys around each other and they ain't sitting there just looking at their phones.

Yeah. Right? Like you just work through it. Team building things. Yes. I mean, I even think now in this day and age, it is even more valuable than ever to do that than just have a guy just being consumed in himself in the locker room on headphones on

his phone and then right after the game on his phone and going back to the, you know, we're all subject to this. Yeah. Right? No matter what you're doing in your life. no matter what your career is. Yeah, you know, I was listening to Bill and Rissillo's podcast, and I heard this, there was the clip that was put up of Adam Silver at Sloan talking to Bill about, you know, one of the challenges

going forward. And he was talking about, you know, a guy's being unhappy and a level of isolation and in this age of social media and whatever else. And that he said they are genuinely unhappy. And one of the things he said in that, I believe he quoted Isaiah Thomas. He was talking about championships or won on the bus, right? the idea that these bonds that form between these teams. And I do think we focus on the failures of some teams,

like the Lakers or the Celtics or not living up to expectations, or maybe even some other teams or individuals that aren't particularly happy. But there are teams that are happy. I just told you, I watched that Nets team. I said, they're all celebrating. The 15th guy is celebrating. I watch the Trailblazers. They're happy.

You know what I mean? Like there's a bunch of teams. The Kings roster seems happy despite. Like some of the Jagger stuff that are happy. You know what I mean? There are a bunch of teams that really get along and have a good mix of guys that all seem to really like each other. We focus on the ones that don't, right? And people talk about this day and age and they talk about, you know, social media,

and they talk about the loneliness that people feel and the unhappiness that people feel and that the reaction time is different than it used to be. You know, you hear people crapping on you on social media or write, articles about you, whatever, and everything is, you're aware of everything now, right? And I do think that's certainly part of it and that it's sometimes even hard to hang out with people that are just, you know, immersed in their phone if you go to a bar with them or whatever. And so personal interaction has taken a hit. That being said, it's been my experience over the many years that I've been in NBA locker rooms, that some of it is just a young

and old thing, and it's generation gaps. And there's always going to be different distractions. But the league does get younger, and you've got a lot of guys that are the best players that are won and done players, and they come in. And the other thing is, and I know this is going to sound crazy, and some people might think it's insane. A lot of times with the guys that you feel like that are unhappy, et cetera, and I don't want to just make a blanket statement.

That's why I'm saying a lot of times. what you will find is it is more troubling right now to be involved in this day and age and the social media and taking over everything if you are not like in a relationship or have a family. And I say this from my own personal experience. When I was very young, I was in radio and this was in the age of message boards and I was getting absolutely killed. I mean, I was young. I was just starting out. And I was getting absolutely killed. And it drove me insane, like literally insane.

I just couldn't take it. And I had at one point, a girlfriend that at the time was like, why do you worry about this at all? Who cares about any of this, right? And it was almost like I was so embarrassed that she knew that I cared so deeply what these people were saying about me, that it did change my outlook. And then as the years went on, you know, you start, some things matter more than others. But I'm telling you, if you're not, like, this is the greatest, endorsement of women in a relationship ever. Some guys, it's the best thing that can happen when you are, when everything revolves around you, right? And I see so many times we talk about

these guys are unhappy and these guys are this and these guys whatever. And I'm like, I wonder if they're married. I wonder if they got girlfriends. I wonder if they got, because a lot of times these guys are surrounded by other guys that are all yes men, all yes men, all the time. And that's who's with them all the time. And there's something to be said about having the lady in your life that wakes you up and says, get over yourself and stop having such a damn ego, right? You know what I mean? That is needed from the outside. And there's always been a difference I've been able to tell from guys that are in relationships or have families, et cetera, and the guys that don't, because the things that matter to you change dramatically because there is

no reason to not be just totally immersed in yourself all the time. And maybe that will sound crazy to some people, but it has been my experience that that is true. And I have seen guys change dramatically once they ended up in relationships. I'm not saying everybody needs to have a relationship or everybody needs to get married or everybody needs to, whatever. I'm just telling you that it does that guys that are seemingly much less apt to feel this level of unhappiness and care so deep. That's the biggest thing. You care much less deeply. what strangers think about you when the people that you are closest with love you no matter what. Sure. I mean, I think your point also about upbringing is interesting as well because a lot of players,

you know, whether it's in the NBA, if you make the NBA, the odds are in your town, you were, you were special. Like, you were the player in like middle school and then in high school that everybody said, you're going to be something someday. Like, you're special, right? So your whole life, like you're told, you're going to, you're destined for greatness. And then once you actually make the league where everybody else, else was also told they were destined for greatness. You're getting for the first time maybe you're in your life. Criticism from the outside and reading messages about how you're actually not worth anything,

how you blew it, how you're the reason why someone's day is ruined, why the reason why a team lost instead of being the reason for hope. Instead of it's just a drastic change. Well, and I, and like I said, I experienced it in my own life when I was young. It hurt, man, and it bothered me because the only thing, that's the only thing I had. It's the only thing I had going was my career. It was the only thing that mattered to me. And so I care so deeply.

And I know this is going to pain some jerks that are behind the keyboard that think they really hurt people's feelings. But at this point now, like, dude, I got so many. Do you know how far down the list, you know, mean things people say about me is? I mean, I'm worried about, well, my wife's got going on. I'm worried about my son who worships me. I'm worried about my daughter and what I'm worried where I got to go, like what we have after school and if I've got to go pick them up or if I've got to take them to a practice or whatever. And there's so many other things to worry about. But when the only thing to worry about is yourself, that stuff cuts you way deep.

For sure. It just does. Because you lose perspective. Because it's the only thing that does matter. That's what you've got going on. No doubt. I mean, I think for me... So all these guys just need to get girlfriends if they're so unhappy.

I would love to, you know, I think for me, like with my background, I grew up on the internet, right? Like, I've been on forums playing. I've played Xbox Live. I've had, I've talked trash. I've had people talk trash to me my whole life. I mean, like, never mind trash talk. Like, I've been like, you know, made fun of my whole life on the internet. So it's like, for me, I think I developed some thick skin or like an immunity or maybe it's not even that.

It's just like I just don't care because I know for me personally it doesn't mean anything. I kind of just chuckle at it more than anything else like when there's like negative comments now. And usually I just mute negativity. because I just try to get the negativity out of the feed more than anything else. But, you know, I say that, but it still touches on a much greater issue, though, in terms of mental health that Adam Silver was ultimately alluding to for a lot of these guys that if they are bothered by it, it's critical that they are talking to the people that they need to help them through. Whether it is, you know, a wife or girlfriend like you're mentioning,

or whether it's a family member or whether it's actually like a therapist. I hope the people that are bothered by whatever criticism they receive or even if it's not criticism it could be stressed from being on the road and all the traveling and everything else. And we know this, Kev. Listen, we know this with one of the great players in the world.

Kevin Durant had burner accounts where he was responding to just random people. You know what I'm saying? When Adam Silver's talking about, this isn't like a fringe thing. This was like probably the second best player in the world that felt the need to respond to people because it bothered him.

Like, that's the reason you do it. It bothers you. You know what I mean? you feel the need to go out and like say, you know, defend yourself. Defend yourself, right? And so I do think that it's real what's happened. I'm glad that that was a piggyback off of Sloan, which we mentioned, which you were at. So I want to hear about the rest of your experience.

And I understand that Mr. Kurt Goldsbury made an impact on you. By the way, shout out to Kurt Goldsbury. I pre-ordered his book. He has a new book coming out on Amazon and I've already pre-ordered it. I hadn't preordered it because I'm lazy, but I will be pre-ordering it following his discussion on, I believe it was Friday. Kirk had a discussion called Beauty Ball.

In summary, Beauty Ball for Kirk was just about using analytics to create a beautiful game for fans. And his point was, you know, right now we have a game that is aesthetically pleasing. It's a great game with spacing and, you know, high scoring, but there's still an element of defense, and the game is growing and it's better than ever. But at the rate, three-pointers are increasing. At the rate, pace is increasing.

His point is, like, where does it go from here? Like, where is it in five years? Right now, I believe the league shot attempts are around 35%. 35% of shots are three-pointers. And that is just, obviously, as everybody knows, increased dramatically from what it was just a couple years ago and obviously from what it was a couple years before that with this three-point shooting revolution.

Well, what happens when there's a team that's, or multiple teams that are taking 60% of their shots from threes? And the league averages at like 44%, something like that. Is the game as beautiful when the post is even more devalue than it is today? Is it as beautiful when there's even less emphasis on the mid-range game than there is today? And I don't have the answer to those questions. and Kirk was saying he doesn't either. However, it's something that we should at least be thinking about

and being proactive about solving, because if it does get to that point, I personally do think that for me, I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I'd want to watch basketball where every game on average has like 45% or half the shots being three-pointers. I like where it is around right now.

I think I could handle a little bit more with some teams that are outliers like the Houston Rockets. That's what I like the fact that they're an outlier, but I don't want everybody to be playing for shots that way. So Kirk's point was, is how do you account for that? And there's a couple ways you can obviously change the three-point line. You can extend the line. You can remove the corner three.

You can do that by changing the line every year or by setting it at some certain point. Or you could change the key as well. He made the point how the original paint was originally actually shaped in a key until it was changed for the Wilts Chamberlain rules. So if you change the paint from whatever it is now, I think 16 feet to 8 or 9 feet what it was before, that would allow post players to post up closer to the basket, therefore increasing the efficiency of postups, therefore devaluing three-pointers for certain larger players, or even smaller players, so that matter, using the post as a source of scoring.

I guess Kirk's point is devaluing the three-pointer by extending the line in some form would increase the value of the mid-range again, or rather not increase the value of mid-range, that would stay constant. It would just devalue the three-pointer to get it closer to where the mid-range shot is. Because right now, statistically, there's just no reason to take mid-rangeers early in the clock.

You just don't. It's lay-ups or threes. If you're not taking mid-range early in the clock, your chances are you're making a mistake. So I think Kirk's underlying point is just... Do you think it would just cut down dramatically on the amount of guys that could shoot 35% or more from three? That's the idea?

Well, yeah, I mean, Kirk's, Kirk's underlying point was just about getting ahead of this. So right now with the way the league is growing, it's not going to stop. It's like the three point rate is not going to plateau anytime soon. It is just increasing exponentially. So how do you get ahead of that? I think there's a lot of logic to changing the three point line or maybe changing the paint to increase the value of post-ups because you're allowing players to post up closer to the basket

or you just extend the three-point line, remove the corner three in some form in order to just create a balance game. It's a complicated discussion, but the point is that there is risk in allowing this rate of three-point shots to continue rising. Say it, Kevin. Say it. Say it.

Say it. Say the Rockets ruined basketball. Say it, Kevin. Say the Rockets ruined basketball. Say James Hardin ruined basketball. Say it. See, here's the thing. I don't believe that.

I just don't. But here's the thing. I love watching Houston. I love watching James Hart. We've argued about that back and forth. I think for James Harden, he's an innovative player. And I think Houston is an innovative team within the context of the game and the rules and how it's played today. And they could continue to play that way, even if the three-point line were changed.

Look at these guys that used to be buddy. What they do is they exploit the system some way somehow. And what's wrong with that? So Sam Hinkie, they had to change the lottery odds because of him. And now his old buddy, Darryl Bore, they're going to have to change bass. basketball completely. Exactly. And that was ultimately the point. Like the rules are what determine how the game is played. Like whether it's removing hand checking, changing the adding the three point line, you know, changing the distance of the three point. That's what changes the game. I don't think it's that big of a problem yet. Not yet, but that was the point. Like, when does it become a problem?

No, you're right. Do you need to get ahead of that or do you wait until it becomes a problem? Maybe ratings are down and press about the game is really negative. Like, that's the fear. Hey, you mean like how they're probably change, you know, throwaway conferences and the best teams make the playoffs because LeBron didn't make it? Is that what we're going to do? I'm in favor of no conferences. Well, listen, if it was ever going to happen,

it's going to be because they don't get LeBron James in the playoffs. I am in favor. There's another thing, like, Adam Silver discussing, like, the idea of, like, changing the length of the regular season and adding mid-season tournaments. That's another thing I'm very much in favor of as well. Look, the game right now,

I believe Mike Zarin said this on stage during one of the discussions. He's like, The Goose is golden right now. The game is doing extremely well, and it's continuing to grow around the world. That doesn't mean that you can't make it better just because you're continuing to rise and ascend. You need to just try to escalate that more with making smart tweak. So whether it's three-point line or whether it's schedule changes, I think there's ways to continue improving the game to assure that it continues growing globally and doesn't plateau at any point. Mike Zarin, who is in the Celtics front office, and that will lead us to our NBA watch of the night.

The Boston Celtics at the Golden State Warriors. It's on TNT 1030 Eastern. Since this weekend, there have been a tremendous amount of conversation and including your own article on the ringer about what ails the Boston Celtics. I think everybody thought with their load of wings that they have, they would be a team that could make life problematic for the Golden State Warriors. And wouldn't this just be so Celtics-like for them to go win at Golden State tonight and get everybody to say, hey, you know what? Like if they can get it together and, you know, make a run here towards the playoffs and they get to the finals. They are a team that could really give the Warriors problems because we just saw it. I don't know. I mean, that just feels like something that could happen for sure.

Especially, it's usually when everything, when the narrative goes drastically one way, which right now it's like, what's wrong with the Celtics? Celtics don't like each other. Celtics are failing. That they'll go beat the Warriors tonight. Like, I wouldn't bet against that, seriously. Just because that's the way it goes in sports, right? We have to go back the next day and correct everything that we've, you know, these grand statements we've made. In sports, and especially for the Celtic season, it's been a roller coaster up and down. Every time you think they're about to just plummet, they win a couple games in a row. Every time you think they fix themselves, they just start losing and dropping games.

And I think that's why they just lack the foundation with the chemistry to have that sustained, consistent success. For right now, for Boston, tonight's game against Golden State kicks off a really difficult four-game road trip against Golden State, Sacramento, the Lakers, and then the Clippers from, Tuesday and through next Monday. It's a tough stretch. The problem is they don't hit their apex nearly enough, but their apex is still right there. It's very, very, like, if they play their best game, it's still better than virtually everybody's. Yeah. And that's why, like, you know, Kyrie, I mentioned this in the article. Kyrie has said multiple times this season, it's like after game 70 is what matters leading into the playoffs. So for this team, we're at the point now. It's time for Kyrie.

and the team to show that yes, it is time to get into playoff mode because the upside is still significant. Well, and that's how we know, Kevin. They've been, by all accounts, a disappointment. And yet in your article, you're reading it's like a top five defense, top 10 offense, you know, I get it. Yeah.

That part is a little bit misleading, though. Like, they have the number three net rating in the league, but they also have like the 10th best net rating against teams that have won over 55% that are their game. I'm just saying you still have to have a number three net rating in the league. enough good performances to have those numbers. No doubt. Yeah, exactly. The Celtics are still a really good team despite everything, which is why it's hard to just, you can't just give up on them entirely. There's still a chance

that they fixed themselves here before the playoffs. It all starts tonight against Golden State. We'll be watching that. Remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com or from your preferred video provider. Kevin, it's always a favorite part of my week. I will talk to you next week. Me too, Chris. This is fun today. By the way, thank you for everybody who likes the ringer at Sloan. Everybody who said hi to me and Jason Concepcion and Jason Gallagher and Moes. Really appreciated the support.

And people really like the show, Chris. They like the mismatch. I love to hear that. We're big at Sloan. That's what I want to hear. We should do a, we'll have to try to do like a live show there next year. That would be cool. It would be fun.

We should. If you dig what you're here and go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. and we will talk to you next week.