The Ringer NBA Show - Is Trae Young the Greatest Hawk of All Time? Plus More With Rembert Browne | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 21, 2022

While Raja hits the slopes, Logan welcomes Rembert Browne to fill in as guest host as only he can. They catch up on the Hawks’ season and Trae Young’s supremacy in Atlanta (3:00), Kyrie Irving’s impact on the Nets this season (18:00), and their shared love for ‘Abbott Elementary’ (37:00). Host: Logan Murdock Guest: Rembert Browne Producers: Sasha Ashall and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For as long as I've known the NBA, it's been a Stars League. But even among the Stars, there's an exclusive club. Russell and Dr. Jay, Jordan, Kobe. They're all part of a select group that paved the way for the NBA superstar of today. And some even shared secrets with each other along the way. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Jackie McMullen. And this is the Icons Club. What's popping?

real ones Logan Murdoch Wait, it's not Wait, it's not, what the fuck is Roger? I don't even know where Roger's at. I don't know where he's at. I have no idea. Actually, I do. But we have a guest host in his place.

Same R. He is from Director of Secret Project at Twitter. I don't know what that even means. I don't even think he's gonna tell me, but he's... I'm not. He is not going to tell me what it is as much as I try to extort him

and blackmail him or whatever that is. He used to write for Grantland is like a ringer affiliate, but most importantly, he is my best bud. Rembert Brown is our guest house today. Robert Brown is in the building. Hi, Rembert. I am in the virtual building, and I am very excited. I wish I was in the building that you were in. Because then I would, last time I saw you, you jumped in my arms and I held you like a

like a grown man baby, and it was beautiful. But yeah, I'm very excited. Bell. I feel like every time I feel like every time I come, well, full disclosure, I am in, I'm on the East Coast right now. I'm in the Gimlet offices. And this is blowing my effing mind that like I don't have to record myself. I got my guy Mike here. Mike is producing. Big Mike is here. But I feel like every time I come to your house, I jump into your arms. Is that what happens? Are you jumping in my arms? Is that is that what we just do? I just one person is ready to. I just one person is ready to. catch and one person is ready to jump, but we're kind of in this alternating vibe. So I think next time you come, I'm just going to like start running at you and you better be ready. That's, that's, you're going to either run me over or I need to catch you. Yeah, you're going to get leveled or you're going to like lift me like, um, is it dirty

dancing? No, I'm going to lift you how, um, Rafiki lifted Simba. Boom, boom. Um, in front of your house on the stairs. It is time. That's what we're going to do. I'm going to put something on your forehead like it's Ash Wednesday, and then we're going to just,

and I'm going to hold you towards Melrose just like right here, just here. Anyway, the last time I was, or one of the last times I was at your house, and I jumped into your arms, and then we went on the couch and just, we watched, we were watching the NBA playoffs. It was the 2021 playoffs, and it was, I believe, game one of the Eastern Conference finals,

between your Atlanta Hawks. Milwaukee Bucks. Wow. And I think that was a euphoric moment for you in your life. Because I think the Hawks won that game. No, you got to put the hat. Why don't even know why you don't have the hat on? You have to put your hat on.

He has an Atlanta Hawks hat on that he just, like, he stopped recording in the prepot and just told us that, hey, we need to put on this Atlanta Hawks hat. So anyway, you have the Atlanta Hawks hat on. Yes. And so we were, we were at your house. and you were during every single timeout, you would play some sort of Atlanta music. You would play crime mob, I think, was in there.

Yeah. There was some, I think maybe Zach Fox randomly got a thing. But more than anything, can you tell me how you felt in that exact moment during that time? We got Melrose chicken, which is great, takeout, which is one of the greatest chicken that I've ever had in my life. But anyway, how euphoric did you feel during that moment? You know, it was a great moment because around that time, we're beginning to have some conversations in Atlanta is the curse over. You know, we were.

Is this the overall city of Atlanta group chat? We were, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like often active. And, you know, there's this curse that happened in Atlanta when we got the Olympics in 96. I don't know what we did to get them, but we got them and a cloud hung over our city. And there were things happening. Like, the Braves are starting to do good.

Trey might be the dude. Maybe he's our guy, blah, blah, blah. And so when we, I'm used to getting excited about Atlanta sports, but I'm not used to the result being like we end up winning. And that's the thing that Trey has like brought to the city, which is like he gets us excited. and then like we often win and that's cool. So that's like it's it still feels,

it still feels very new and fresh to like go into a Hawks game expecting, like to do well, like actually being like surprised when we lose. Because it's like we got a team. We got a dude that can put up 45 on any given night, which has just not been true. And shout out the god Steve Smith, but that wasn't like at every day. day thing.

And my shout out, shout out the guy, Joe Johnson. Shout out the God, show some respect. I know, why, why? What is, I'm always curious about the dichotomy

of an Atlanta athlete, right? Like, I think it's in arguable that Zeke is, Dominique is number one. He's number one. There's no one touching Dominique. It's like him and like way, way down,

I don't, what Dion maybe, but I think Dominique is number one. The thing, the thing about Dominique, though, who I love, Dominique is like on,

Mount Rushmore of Atlanta sports, blah, blah, blah. But like, there wasn't really anyone challenging Dominique for the Atlanta sports throne for a long time. Like, Dominique's kind of got like, he's like the unopposed mayor that runs every four years. It's like, who's running against Dominique? Like, nobody. So, like, I'm, I love Dominique, but I'm also, like, down for Trey to play in Atlanta

for a long time. And, like, if he plays for a long time and plays at the level, like he's going to be the greatest hawk. At the moment though, your hawks are 10th in the plan. I'm sorry to like to do that. Is that like where is that are you is that it's like it's like double dutch right now. And me and Roger talk about this all the time about the hawks. You guys just went too early.

You guys just won way too early. You had all your success way too early. You had remembered like swinging chicken. Yeah. Like it's a trophy during during, during the, Eastern Conference Finals, it's not like that anymore. You guys, you guys, I don't, you guys, you guys, you guys, you guys are feeling yourself way too much.

I know how Atlanta is. You were talking about buying finals tickets. You were, you, it was too much chatter. You got, you, you guys didn't earn this. It wasn't right. I don't, I don't, I think you guys are getting exactly what you deserve right now. We did not go too early. I don't even know what that sentence means we went too early.

We had a good season. And then we are now rebuilding and we are in a rebu. No, you're not rebuilding. You're regressing. No, no, no, no, no, no. I love being in 10th place right now. It's exactly where I want to be. It's like we're plotting for this great end-of-season run where we sneak in.

I'll say maybe seventh. I'm just like, you know, I'm excited for the next couple years of the Hawks. I think we're still trying to figure out the full plan, but we got the talent. The East is like a wild place. I'll acknowledge a lot of teams, a lot of people are getting a lot of attention in the East. But I'm fine with my Hawks.

I want us to obviously make the playoffs, but I'm not like, oh, bad season, the Hawks run is over. We're just trying to figure out how to get to the top. I think that's a little bit too much optimism right now. I really do. That's all I can, that's the only courage.

that I have is optimism. John Collins just went out. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough times right now. It's tough. It's tough. It's been tough before.

Okay. Now let's switch. I want to stick with the Hawks, but I want to switch gears really quickly. You talked about Trey Young being the greatest, potentially about to be on the track to being the greatest, hold on, hold on. You talked about him being on the track

to being the greatest talk of all time. It can happen. Now, I'm not, I'm not in Atlanta. I love Atlanta. Atlanta has my heart. Shout out Lithonia. It's been some time there. Wow. How much, because I can't help but think this, as much as I love Trey Young and what he is

is the partnership to the city of Atlanta, I want to know how you would feel if this guy, Anthony Edwards, was on your team right now. How would it be any different? I'm really just, because full disclosure, this is, this is Rembert's favorite player ever, Anthony Edwards. Love ads. That's Anne. loves Aunt Man.

If you were to swap right now, Trey Young for Ant Man, would Ant Man get more love or less love than Trey Young at this very moment? And how would you feel? Well, here's the thing. It's a lot of pressure to come home and put the whole city on your back.

I think Ant could do it because he's built in such a real Atlanta way where he just does press conferences. He's like, yo, Cat used to not have swag. Then I showed up. Now Cat got up. swag. Like, that's my, like, I feel like Tray Young says the same thing, but we don't believe him when he says it.

Here's the thing. And this is something that we can get into. But, uh, where most of the, I'm learning, most of the pop culture things, like they run through Cuevo. Yes. I was rewatching Atlanta. And I was like, oh, yeah, Cuevo, episode three, season one, Atlanta. Oh, yeah. Quavo was there. Oh, yeah, like IceTray the gang. Like, Miko's, like, Miko's literally made Trey Young happen. Like, Miko's made Trey Young, like, a possibility. And then Julius Randall's leadership gave us the, you know, the full thing, which is like this dude is the dude.

It's almost like, Kuevo was like, because he said Ice Trade a gang before Trey even got there. It was like, I'm welcoming you here. Ice. Yes. He said, he said ice, ice, ice. Like, that is, Quavo's, like, Cuevo's like a sports A&R. He's like, you know, Tray's got next.

So like the thing is I, something I've spent some time thinking about. Like, what's the scenario where Cam Newton comes back to Atlanta? Like, that's going to be a mess because like Cam came up in Atlanta. Cam is like a legendary Atlanta figure. But like, it might be a little distracting. Like Cam would be like playing football and also like in the streets trying to act like He's the mayor. You know,

and we don't have time for all that. So, like, I love a, I'm not, I'm not in a, we trade aunt for Trey. Well, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't want my name near that record. What I'm saying, though, is the city loves aunt in a, in a, in a unique way, because he's a hometown boy. But not all, not all hometown boys get it, you know, Dwight Howard, not the same. That's all I'll say on that. You didn't get a Dwight Howard jersey.

A hawks dirt. You're going to do I? Okay. It's just funny because when I think about the relationship between Trey and Atlanta, it seems on par, but it just, it seems like Trey isn't,

doesn't seem like he's outside in Atlanta in a way that I thought in Atlanta. That's a good thing. It's a good thing. But I just feel like Atlanta loves their stars to be outside in a way that I just, it could be detrimental. Trey is perfectly outside. Trey is outside in the way where it's like,

yo, like, Trey, you got a job. Sometimes in Atlanta, you can be so outside. You forget you have a family. You forget you have responsibilities. You forget you got to pick your kids up from school because you're just outside, you know, like, Tray's focus. Trey steps out. The most important thing is like the outside people, fuck with Trey.

That's all that matters. Those who live outside are like, that's my guy. That's all I need from Trey. Okay. I'm here to break your heart though real quick. We're going to switch gears going to Steel Basketball. But going to go to the WMBA. Yes.

You are an Atlanta dream fan. I am. Shout out my friend. Shout out Angel McCutry. Shout out Angel. Shout out my friend Steveo, who just like loves the dream, like, stays pulling up on games. And like, like, I love to see the city. The city, Atlanta just like gets excited about anyone or any group of people that seem to like care.

Like that that feels like it registers more than like is the team good or not. It's like are these people, these people care about Atlanta. Like the dream was such a, it's such a clear like we are an Atlanta team that I feel like folks just like got behind in a very cool way, myself included. I went to a dream game. I used to go. I spent some time in Atlanta like 2016 and went to a few dream games. You guys are with the shits. You guys are just with it.

You know, the run with the dream, all that, everything that encompasses. But here to break your heart. bro because you know my sparks got kennedy carter and i really want to get your reaction to that what's going on are you okay are you good because kennedy carter was atlanta as soon as she got drafted was atlanta hope you knew you knew what it was and she was someone that was outside and for better or worse it's probably good that she got traded comma however but how do you feel are you okay are you still in mourning right now are you all right um i don't love when our stars go to Los Angeles hurts me.

You know, the new bi-coastal. You sound a little bit of a hypocrite right now, but that's fine. No, no, let me get, let me bring this full circle. The new bi-coastal is L.A. Atlanta is not L.A. New York. You know, Atlanta's center of the universe. And so like I... A good friend of mine, good friend of the show will not say their name. It's told me Atlanta influences everything.

Where's a shirt that says Atlanta influences everything? You know, probably true. Anyway, I understand someone being like, I had some time in Atlanta. I want to experience something else. Where's the next best place I get L.A.? Our best baseball player, Freddie Freeman, he's now a Dodger. That hurts, but I get it. Remember Brown, that's me.

Like, I'm here. I get it. But also, like, this ain't the same home. And so, like, I'm, it hurts a little bit. To see folks bounce, especially the ones who it's just like, you can change a culture, like, pretty quickly just because, like, the way that you are on the court and off the court. And that's going back to Trey, what you say, Trey may lack in an outside energy that Atlanta seems to want, like, he's got all that on the court. Like, that's the difference where he's like, he, he like, he will cut your heart. out on the court.

And everyone's Atlanta's like, that's my guy. Like, that's my guy. Were you, how did you feel when he said in New York on the garden? It's real quiet in this motherfucker. And then says, I'll see you in the A. Did you shed a thug tear? Were you crying? I took my shirt off.

Yeah, for Trey. I don't even remember where I was. I might have been at Target. I was somewhere. You saw an alert on the phone. It was like, I'm going to take my shirt off. You remember the jersey pull to, like, show the nipple? That was me, but I was at, like, Michaels.

Like, it was. And no one knew why you were doing it. I was just like, I had some, like, puff paint in my hand. And I was like, ugh. Last question. I want to go to another subject and take a quick break. How many more years do you guys want a title or even are in the title contention? And don't say this year, because I will tell Mike to turn off the Zoom right now.

We'll cancel the episode. So the way I've been thinking about it is I think, like, like something I would like for like my 37th birthday, which would be like 2024, is a chip. I haven't communicated that with the front office. I haven't talked to the big homie Coonin yet. I will. But yeah, I'm thinking 2024. Like, that's like, I looked at my cow. Like, that's a good time for me to come home and be at a parade. I got no, I got no weddings, no blocks. Can I be on the float?

Can I be on the float with you? Yeah, you can be on that like, like, we used to be Tray Young haters, but now we hear float, which is like not a, uh, a primary float in the parade, more like a- So I can't be on the ice tray float. Like, it's literally an ice tray. I can't be on that float with the seats, no? No, like, it's going to be like an ice tray, but like the shape of something that sucks. like it's an ice tray but it's like a poop emoji like you're that's like that's the ice tray that

you're okay okay that's fair let's take a quick break and we are back um I am for full disclosure I'm in the Gimlet offices in Brooklyn just a stone about a stone's throw away from Barclays right now barklace nice place um about what I expected about Brooklyn just in general. Not to interrupt you. I listened to a recent podcast. Was it your first time at Barclays? Was it Roger's first time at Barclays?

It's my first time at Barclays. Roger never gets out of the house. He never leaves. He has kids and shit. Gotcha. So I went there and I've been seeing a lot of stuff. But before we get into Brooklyn and just the city and everything that's around it, what is your third eye telling you about Kyrie right now?

Black man confused. you know getting a lot of info from a lot of people who have not read a lot of books you know um trying to figure out how to be a great black man while not compromising his beliefs it's a very he's he's he's i get the origin of where everything comes from but the way he's like landing the shit or the plane or whatever needs to be landed feels a little um feels a little misguided feels a little bit like the message is getting lost in the delivery and all that i just have i have some like kairi notes um what are your karee notes let's let's let's jot them down what do we got um i think my main kirey note and actually it's less of a less of a note and more of a question i do not

believe that just because someone is a professional athlete, that sport should be their number one life priority above all. So, like, I do understand someone being like, there are some other things that are at play right now that might, you know, interfere with my doing my job. I do not agree with any of Kyrie's pushbacks on. in science. And so I don't agree with pretty much every step he's taken. I love a quote unquote critical thinker. But I don't actually see this as it just hits me a little bit more contrarian than

critical thinking-ish. Yeah. And it's funny because like we obviously we can promote, we want to promote. critical thinking and things like that. But it's funny because, like, you know, at first it was, hey, I'm going to be a contrarian, not specifically to Kyrie. I'm just talking about just a general. When you talk about someone that says

they're a contrarian, it's a lot more dangerous now than it was back 10 years ago, right? Well, because the, you know, there's one thing to be a contrarian on an island where it's like no one actually follows my contrarian as. I'm just like over here. But there's a, there's a handful of,

famous black people right now who like say some stuff I find to be absolutely wrong and then I like go on Twitter. I'm like, oh, like a lot of people agree. That's that's a little bit more worrisome than I thought. At the end of the day, I like don't, you know, Kyrie is a grown man and the things that he does doesn't really have that much of an impact like as an individual but when you're a mouthpiece and a lot of people are like, huh, like maybe he's right.

Like that's what I'm like, well, he's not right. Like go protect yourself and protect, you know, I don't know. So like that's, you know, there is a certain degree of folks at this stage of the pandemic

where it's like, I'm going to start to opt out of the things that you were saying, whether that's a Kanye, whether that's a kind. Like, it was just like, I don't, actually don't have time as much as I used to to go back and forth.

Well, we have seen this throughout history, just not even just athletes, but a black man of reverence and a black man who is, you know, black people in general, you know, they get to a point. I don't think people really realize the pressure that is on, not necessarily, especially now with the more than an athlete, you know, era and all these things for people to feel like they need to have a voice, but also it's, I don't think we see the other side of it of how hard it is to have a voice. I think about somebody like Eldridge Cleaver, you know, back in the day, who was a guy that was a Panther that was on the right side of history for a long time

and then got disillusioned along the way. And, you know, you even think about Huey Newton. You think about all these people that do that. Why? Do you think we give enough credit to how the world around an athlete or someone that wants to be an activist, how the world around them can change them, you know, because they feel maybe they have to do so much and they have to be a voice for so many. Do you think that, do we give enough credit to that? Yeah, I mean, no, I don't think we give enough, I don't think we give enough credit. I think also, like, the mainstream world is white and white people, like, don't fully understand all of the things that go into just being black every day, like day in, day out. So like, there's a, there's a lot of, you know, for me,

the external stuff is like less of like all the things that you're reading out in the world. Like that's a, it's a minefield. But it's like who you decide to keep around you, like, I do feel like is something that people have more agency. And, you know, like I, it brings me a lot of piece to know, like, if I ever started just like absolutely saying stuff while and out, like, like, three or four people will pull up to my house and just like beat me up and be like, what are you talking? Yeah, just like, what are you talking about, you know? And, you know, there's this, like, layer of yes men and yes women and just like, you know, they talking crazy, but like, that's my meal ticket. So I'm going to let them, I'm not going to push back on this crazy. And I think that is,

You know, I'm only singling out black folk because, like, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's my, like, white people crazy. Like, yeah, like, that's, I'm not even, I don't even need to go into that. But, you know, I, I feel a certain type of way when I'm watching, you know, a black person in this stage. And, you know, there are 20s, 30s, like still trying to figure out how to be a public facing first, getting messaging that being silent, means you don't care, but also getting messaging that like you got to say something, even if you don't know what to say. Like I understand that it's a mind feel and I understand that there's a layer of being public that is inherently risky. You know, all of these things are true. But I do think it's helpful to surround yourself with people who can help you get

to, you know, what you feel is like a responsible, clear. headed answer, you know? Also, like, there's also the ego that comes in with that, right? Because, like, whenever you're at a certain status and, like, you know, especially, you know, you talk about, I guess, the people that, I don't know what Kyrie or, you know, activists aspire to be, but the blueprint of all activists, it seems like, at least in our country, is MLK, and there's Martin Luther King, MLK, Malcolm X, you know, Angela Davis, and there are all these people. But when you, I feel like there's an ego that has to come with activism because you have to feel like, hey, I'm right in what I'm saying every single time.

And I just feel like sometimes you get to a point where you stop listening. And it just seems like where, or you stop listening or you stop trying to educate yourself. There's no, at least I know there's people in your life and in my life where, like you just said, if people, if we said something outlandish, at least we. have a guardrail where we can at least just say where somebody's just going to holler on us. How did you, and you've been around professional athletes, how do you become that voice for someone when they are, you know, when they're, you know, they might be supporting you or they might be, I don't know how you do that as someone is an inner circle when someone who has an ego that they need to have to play the sport and live the life that they live, but also on the other side

of that, I don't know how you can continue to be a voice alongside that with. the ego that a person that's successful. I'm not just talking about Kyrie. I'm talking about everyone. A person that's that successful has. How do you balance that? I don't even know how to do that. I guess I'm just speaking out loud. I just, I don't know how you do that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how you can be outside of an inner circle and permeate that and get through to that. Like, yes, there's a world in which I write something and it someone reads it and it connects with them it opens them out. Like, absolutely. I, you know, ultimately, it's, it's a, I mean, I don't, I think that's like a, how do you deal with ego in any walk of life, which is like,

you might not want to hear this in the short term, but this is like, I'm saying this because I care about you in the long term, you know, like, those aren't easy conversations. Those are like potentially, you know, relationship ruining, rest, you know, that person could hear that and be like, fuck you, get out of here. You know, like, that's just like a decision you have to make, you know? Like, I feel like that is a,

that is something we can, like, get a sense that, like that has happened over the last year of Kanye's life with certain people where it's just like, yo, bro, like, that ain't it. And, like, those people then getting, like, flamed on Instagram. Like, I don't fuck with so-and-so anymore. I don't fuck with John Legend anymore.

Yeah, like, we're out on John Legend. Legend? Like, that's your guy. How could you be out on John Legend, bro? Like, that's the guy, you know? So, like, you know, I, I think that's the reality. He's like, I'm giving you all me. And Kanye's like, no.

No. I, he goes, I want none of you. That's what he said, you know? So, yeah, you know, I think we're in just like a very interesting time right now where, you know, a lot of online

Mine is this like good and bad, right and wrong, not a lot of room for nuance, blah, blah, blah. And some things deserve more nuance. Some things are actually, they actually have right and wrong answers. But a lot of times I think right now that get, that's all just like muddied and just like a mess right now, which is like why we live in a very argumentative society, if you will. Where are we in terms of athlete activism right now? Because we're in this space where, you know, in our lifetime where we had historic uprising or whatever you would want to call it, right? And to where it actually got, now we have messaging on commercials about diversity and all these things. And it seems like things have changed.

Where does an activist, whether in sports or anything like that, fit? into this new world where it's kind of like, yo, man, I go on, I see Target and it's like, whoa, well, there's a commercial saying that, hey, we're putting a fist up, you know, where do we, where do we, where do we stand right now with activism? Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't, I don't, I do not use that word lightly. Like, there's two words that get thrown around a lot that I, I tend, I try not to use, use all the time genius and activist.

I'm going to add like entrepreneur there to, I think that as well. Put it on the list. Yeah. You know, like, I remember a few times doing panels or something like that and someone like put activist on my list of multi hyphenates. And I was like, I mean, I have activism in my heart. But activist feels like a little bit of a job.

It feels a little bit of like a full-time identity. point and I think there was that period of time 2014 15 16 17 17 17 like suddenly half of the United States of America was an activist because like it got really romanticized during that time yeah it's like you said one thing you're an activist like

I don't know you know that's not my call but like when I as someone that has done more activisty things still hesitates to call myself an activist, I hesitate to, you know, claim anyone who has done one thing. With that said, not trying to gatekeep that word. I think ultimately, activism is the act, like an act of using your profile to bring awareness and to like actually do work to make things better. And, you know, like, I love seeing people like Jalen Brown. Yeah. You know, who like, like,

is thirsty for knowledge, understands that he has, you know, I like the way he moves because he does things where it's like clear that he understands he's like, throwing himself under the bus a little bit by like making a strong statement, but understands that like he's going to be okay. Like he's the type of person that can make statements without fear of

retribution or blah blah blah and I think that's how you're like for me that's how you're supposed to be when you get into spaces like that's how would you juxtapose that with Kyrie right because there's an argument that there's hey Kyrie isn't afraid to

say what he feels what is the distinction there is it the science argument because he's saying stuff that's out that that just that is categorically not true or not what is what is the difference in your mind between those two things because you can make the argument that Kyrito doesn't fear anything as well.

Yeah, I mean, like I could literally be like this podcast is food news with Jacoby and Juliet. And because that's what I believe. And like that's what I'm saying. It's just not true. But like that's a big controversial opinion. I'm like, this is not real ones. That's not what this podcast is.

and like, fuck with me. If you, if you, like, hit that like button, if you agree. You know, like, there are, like, that is, that is a belief that is not popular and controversial. I don't see Jalen Browns as coming from that same world. And I'm also, like, not trying to, like, pit the two of them as, like, the two poles of activism. I just like, there is something, um, there's let,

like, Kyrie is on a journey and I hope that this journey, I hope he like continues to, actually, I don't know. It's funny because like I feel, I don't know, like a very small part of me like feels for, because bro,

Kyrie is not dissimilar to a lot of people that, you know, that we both probably are around at points in our lives, right? They just don't have all the followers. He's going through this real distinct journey right now and is trying to figure himself out in front of the world, which is a very hard thing to do,

which is also like the downside of fame. I don't know. I don't have the answer to what he's going through. I don't particularly know him, but I can imagine that it's just hard to go through this, I don't know, transitional phase, whatever you would want to call it in front of the world. the way he's doing it.

Like, so a small part of he feels for him on that end. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I feel for him. I also, I worry sometimes when people feel like it is their, like, anointed, God-given, like, they were placed on earth to, like, speak to the masses. And, like, I'm like, no, like, really? You know, like, that's the, like, when I peel back. some of the layers, that's the shit that, like, kind of bugs me, where I'm like, you don't have to figure all this shit out in front of the world.

Like, that is a choice, you know? Like, and, but there is some, you know, Kyrie talking about his aunt and his, you know, talking about Egypt and all the, you know, all the fourth, fifth, I, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, there is something behind this where it's just like, I have to be the truth in the seal. of lies that lives out there, which I'm like, that's a little, um, that feels like a little much, you know? It's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of self-appointed pressure.

It's a lot of, you know, I grew up with a mom that told me that I could be great and I, like, could do anything, blah, blah, blah. I was definitely like, pumped with the like ambition and like, you can do everything, blah, blah, blah. But there was like a ceiling where it was like, but like, don't act like a damn fool while you try to go do this and like don't go out here embarrassing me while you go do this. Just like go. You know, so like that there's a certain level of like wanting to be great, but like the world not needing to orbit around you and your thoughts, which feels like where I get off the ship where I'm like I'm all for a journey. I'm all for this, but there's a little bit of like, like, I have something to say that is going to, you know, change blah, blah, blah, which I'm like, eh, like, I think, I think you're a little bit too high on that horse right now. Let's take a quick break.

I want to talk about a little show we'd like to call Abbott Elementary. Love that. And we are back. Real quick, real quick, I want to talk about Abbott Elementary. Remembered. I've always, I've been wanting to ask you this. your mother was a teacher. How triggered are you by the show?

I love it. My mom, you know, I like to keep my mom appropriately connected to the culture. Sure. You know, she don't need to know everything. She don't need to know anything about Pete Davidson, you know, but she needs to know some stuff. And I was like, Mom, there's some shows that I think you're going to get into. and she was like, before you go on, Bel Air, outstanding.

I was like, oh, you've watched Bel Air. I did not even know you had Peacock. That's an outstanding. Is it wild when your mom is tighter than you? Just in general, just like, just in every way, just cool than you without even trying? She was like, I knocked out the season on a Saturday. I was like, that's an outstanding way.

But I was like, Mom, Abbott Elementary. That's up next. She was like, I'm a, so she actually, watched it, I think, last weekend, but it is so funny because, like, I grew up single mom. Like, my mom just, I grew up, like, in classrooms. Like, my mom teaching, I'm, like, sitting on the floor, just, like, crawling around, blah, blah, blah. So, like, the, I'm hyper aware of how much drama exists in a school setting amongst teachers. it is a like a high drama.

I just don't get why this hasn't been, this show hasn't made sooner because I worked in schools too before and it's like there is so much shit happening in schools that would make a great television show. I think they really nailed, they are nailing the workplace comedy lane but with like characters we haven't seen on network TV like and like.

The principal that. doesn't care, right? Or that cares but doesn't care. Like, I can't get over how good some of these characters are written. Like, Ava, the principal is like a, like,

every single line is good. I really love the fact that Quinta Brunson, who it's a creator and one of stars of the show, like, the show runs through kind of her,

but she didn't give herself the funniest part. Like, like, there are, like, she gave just like, banger character, uh,

attributes and lines to just like everyone else, which I really, she's like, she's like Chris Paul at his best as a point guard. Just like, just like, I'm just throwing it. I'm just giving,

I, boom, said not, blah, blah, blah. I, like Chris Paul in the All-Star game. Just like, I'm just going to throw you alley-obs.

Here you go. Here. It's been really, it's been really, really cool and I have this pop culture hang up that I

I've thought I would grow out of by now but I still haven't grown out of which is like when I hear people talking about something that I know I'm gonna like I can't consume it immediately because I do that with like I still haven't listened to the Adele album fully just yet

the weekend album just for that reason I didn't listen to to Pimp a Butterfly for like five months because I was like, I had to die down. I was like, I know this shit is going to like take over my life where I was like, I'm not in a headspace. I'm going to wait till Drake drops a project so I can listen to Two Pimp a Butterfly. I was like, I'm not in the mood to like stop listening to all other music for six months because of this album. And I had this similar thing where I saw people talking about Abbott.

I was like, I just like, I keep seeing stuff where I'm like, oh, this is going to be so my shit. shit, but I want to give it time so he can like wash over me and take over my life. And that's where I am. As a boyfriend at that age, or as a pursuer of women at that age, were you, were you Greg or were you Zach Fox's character trying to pursue? Which one were you? Were you the smart guy that was just the toxic smart guy? Or were you the, uh, the guy with the heart of gold like boo, you need to get up out of its situation? Were you the dirty Mac or were you the, Mac. Damn. It's like such a like worst of both people. That's who I was. It was like I had an external appearance of having it all together, but like had an under the hood, Zach Fox energy

of just like, like, oh, look at it. You didn't tell them that you listen to a little scrappy at all times. You didn't tell them that boozy was your favorite rapper. They're like, wait, your whole YouTube Q is Little Bee videos? Oh, I didn't realize. I thought you were going to take me to City Winery. Oh, no. We're going to see him perform. I didn't know you were going

to play bitch mob anthem on the way to the date. I didn't know that you were going to do the cooking dance to try to teach me that. That's what you were? Yeah. And, you know. So you started out with like New York Times articles and then you were like, no, but Actually, I'm going to play Pretty Bitch right now.

Yes. I, ho's on my dick because I look like Matlock. That's a real little B lyric that I don't even know if I want you to put it in the podcast, but it's a great lyric. I see, I was really happy because I was, you know, an amazing thing about watching Abbott, like, Quint is someone who is like, been, like, doing things for a decade. And it's, like, amazing to see her get to this point. It's awesome to see Zach on network television. You know, it feels very similar to, like, watching Deezus and Mero go from

complex to vice to showtime. Like, that's, that's an incredible six-year run that they have. And it, like, it's, it has. to feel, not it doesn't have to. Like, you could look at it in another way, but it's, it's such an exciting moment for people that like to make things. Well, the thing is that I think that's interesting about the names that you name was Zach Fox, QB, D. Sumero, is it feels like, and this is what we want as a consumer, right?

is that we want to feel like we know the person, and we want to know that we know that we know that person all the way through. And it seems like they are themselves at all times. And I think that's what we were, we've been missing for a long time in the entertainment world, or at least we just got out of it where it's like, oh, we're going to manufacture a star. We're going to do this.

We're going to, we're going to, instead of just letting people be who they are. Yeah. And I think that we're seeing it with those examples. There's no, there's no industry plant in this. It's like, oh, this is like, these are tried and test, you know, these are people who built followers and fans with no institutional support. And like the thing that I think we are used to happening is like someone gets picked out of the like world of making things independently brought into the system and then like asked or forced to like make things like better, that differ. from what got them there.

You know, like, we're trying to follow a blueprint that has already been done. Hey, yeah, yeah. You are, you know, like, you know, how many carbon copies were the Jackson Five for the Supremes, right? Like, it's basically that's what the industry is, right? Or what it's always been, and I feel like we're learning a lesson that we've always learned is, hey, man, just be a coach and go to your, this person's clearly a star, go to their strong suits.

Yeah, I mean, that's how I feel, that's why, you know, as I'm going back, and watching Atlanta and, you know, like, thinking back to when that first season came out in 2016. And it's like, it's like watching, like, one of Lakeith's first scenes. And I was like, yo, these motherfuckers just went for it, you know? Like, there was no blueprint for this type of show happening. And they were like, we believe that this is the next thing. Like, that's how I feel about young thug. Yes.

Well, I'm just like, like, there's no world in which you're, like, thugs like, oh, I've seen this before, which is why I'm going to behave and do this thing. It's like, no, I just think this is tight. And I think I think other people will also think it's tight if I'm allowed to go for it my way. And, you know, you think of, like, Thug, you know, like, these are like more extreme examples, But with an example like Abbott, which I find it as revolutionary as any of these other things, which is like you took a tried and tested structure model. It is a network comedy, blah, blah, blah, sure and true.

But outside of the structure, like, yes, we follow structural rules. Outside of that, it's our own thing. Like, outside of that, you're going to get hit with stuff that, like, you haven't felt in this. space. And I think that is, I think about this and like all the different, like, even the spaces that we're in professionally, which is like, if you get through the door and you're given the green light to go for it, you kind of got to go for it, you know? Like, you've got and like, that going for it is risky. And that going for it could be like, fall in your face. But One, I think people really respect anyone who in a, you know, in one of these types of settings, just the act of going for it, I feel like is a respectable act.

And I also think, like, a lot of people are built to, you know, continue to lean on what got them to that place. So like that, like seeing stuff like that, regardless of the space where this film, TV, writing, pot, like anything where we're making stuff, that should feel so exciting to me that this, this, this, what I feel like is a transition happening where like people are, it's not that like, the system has changed and like folks are like, okay, now you can start going for it. We're excited. It's just like folks are like, fuck it. I'm like, I'm going to go for it. And that's excited. It's a great place to end, man. Robert Brown motherfuckers.

He's here. This was great. This was awesome. Wasn't this great? I was so nervous. I was like, damn. You texted me yesterday. Like, dude, I was like, dog, we're just going to talk.

I thought you were going to be like, yo. So like, tell me about like when Ja went from my right to left at half court and then just like did the thing. Like I was going to say something tight. I was going to be like, yeah, like he did that shit. But like I didn't have Just say it, J-Morant right now J-M-A-M-R-R-R-T take right now. You go ahead because you said you want to talk about J-Jah.

Just real quick. Yo. Yo, Joe, J-a, like, you were asking me about Aunt Trey. I think about J-M-A being in Memphis. And Memphis is, like, kind of close to Atlanta.

And, like, I taught, one of my, like, oldest homies, Lang Whitaker, uh, Atlanta guy went to, like, I talked to him about, about John. He's just like every night is like the greatest night ever.

I will say you need to go see John when he's in your town. I will be all my Memphis partners. I will be in the building. Shout out Verdo. For Nets for shout out Verdo. Shout out Verdo. Shut out Verdo. Govro going to be in the building on Wednesday. That's that's that's gris. We're in the building. Hey man, make sure you check out. Remember, he writes everywhere. He is, I'm going to figure out what he's doing at Twitter at some point. He's never going to tell me, but it's fine. If you see a guy, looking like Cornell West and you don't have your glasses on, it's remembered. So make sure you check him out.

If you see him on the street, just make sure you say hello to him. One note, my mom called me Cornell East, which I thought was funny. We'll see you guys on Thursday with another special guest host. But in the meantime, make sure you check out our whole ringer slate on Ringer MBA feed. That is Weekends with Waz. That is group chat. That is upside high. I am doing this without notes.

That is R2C2 with who. Oh, wait, Roger Bell is not there. So it's C-C-Sabathia. Chris Seid Clown, Baleo Legend. Make sure you check out Black Girl's songbook with who. Oh, shit. Rogers is not here, so we're going to keep the propaganda going. Daniel Smith, town legend.

Baha'u'lla. We out. Bap, blah, blah, blah, blah.