The Ringer NBA Show - Is Voter Fatigue Hurting Giannis’s Chances to Win MVP? Plus, Kawhi’s Puzzling Second-Half Absence Against the Grizzlies | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to discuss Giannis Antetokounmpo’s MVP case and whether or not voter fatigue has impacted his chances to win the award this season (3:16). Next, they talk about the strange decision by the Los Angeles Clippers to sit Kawhi Leonard in the second half of a close game against the Memphis Grizzlies (25:00). Later, the guys close with some predictions on a few upcoming matchups in the Western Conference (40:07). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure those time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league.

And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into OffGuard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping? Logan Murdoch, Roger Bill. Ra, rah, your back was Haddon N. How you doing, bud? I'm good, buddy.

It's good to be back, man. I missed you. A lot going on. It's getting, you know, it's a lot going on. It's just, there's a lot going on. You know what? You were being a fucking dad, dude. You were being a fucking dad over the last week, and it was great.

It was beautiful. Like, we don't have to get into the specifics of the recruiting trips that you went on. What's it like to be a fucking dad on a recruiting trip, dude? It seemed like you had a lot of fun. I did have a lot of fun. You know, seeing these schools and watching my son kind of take it all in. It's been really cool. And then, you know, just watching him start to develop into like a young man because, you know,

these are adults recruiting him. And while I am a part of this, you know, I try to step back and let him do the talking for himself and handle himself. And so it's cool to kind of watch his maturation process in this. But at the same time, being back around, you know, sports, you know, the way that I was used to being around them has been kind of cool too, right? a long time since I've been in a locker room. So all in all, it's been a great experience, man, and hopefully it's just getting started for him. Is it kind of like, do you just give

a game and stuff about, like, how to look out for recruiting trips and stuff? Because it's like game that you just didn't inherently know because you were the first one to do it. Like, how do you navigate this space now that you have a kid going through this? Anyone listening that has children will know this. I could have a PhD in anything. I just so happen to have it in sports. but I could have it at anything. And if I was trying to explain to my kids the ins and outs and the ABCs of that, they would not listen to me. So, like, as it pertains to the recruiting, like, I try to kick game to them.

I try to talk to them, you know, but the reality is most of the time it's just bad talking, man. Like, these little jokers are half tuned out. And I think some of it creeps in. They're good kids. They're great students. And so I'd like to think my wife and I are doing some things right. But you get too preachy and they're tapped out immediately, Logan, you know?

For show. Real talk, you're trying to package that. Like, if you were giving a dog a pill or something, you're trying to slide it in some peanut butter or something. Because if you start preaching, them jokers are out. It's just crazy, bro, because I'm getting to that stage. Like, I'm getting to washed adult status. I'm not quite there yet, but I'm getting there. Like, I'm not as cool as I once was.

You get what I'm saying? Where you have those moments where you're trying to be cool and get into it. You're like, what the fuck am I doing, man? You know, I'm just going to give you the message, all right? I'm just going to tell you, you don't listen or you not. bro. I'm out here in flip flops and a in a two-day old t-shirt, my boy. Chilling. Chilling.

All right, man. I don't know any other segue than this, but you know who's not chilling? Janus. Janus has no chill at this point. He has no chill. He is playing his ass off. And last night, he had some interesting comments after his, after his, Milwaukee Bucks beat the

Philadelphia 76ers and who have on their team, Mr. Joelle Embed, who is in the MVP running with MVP running, I think it's a top three race at this point with Yolkich,

Embed, and Janice Adetakumbo. But interesting note on that MVP races, Tim Bontemps of ESPN does a straw poll of MVP candidates and who was going to win and he does a straw poll

among likely MVP voters and Armagnas was ranked third on that list, Raja, and he sent a message basically let me read some comments to you. Basically, this was the we're at the time in the season where the teams

put out their propaganda basically just for the MVP. If they have an MVP on their team, it doesn't matter if they're six or six and up, their team, their team, is going after a big win, they're going to give their candidate just so much love. So let's look at the listen to some quotes right here. This is from Mike Bootenholzer. We certainly feel like Janus is the MVP.

Best player, best record, what he does on both ends of the court, the rebounding, the block shots, the defense, the guard on the perimeter. It does everything. Play makes, attacks, gets to the free throw line. We feel like he's in the conversation and he should be the guy, right? then Drew Holiday says something well basically we've all been thinking this is what I want to

get your take on he goes Janice has been MVP too much he's been doing this too much I feel like people get bored of it it's kind of like the LeBron James effect LeBron has done it so many times that people think that it's normal now and it's not so

it's interesting they say about MVP fatigue we've seen this you know down the line over the last few years when it comes to most infamous is when Derek Rose won the MVP in 2011 and a lot of people said that that was LeBron's

MVP to win. I'm not taking anything away from Derek Rose, but that is the narrative that was out there. And then, so down the line, we continue to get these types of narratives, right? How do you feel Janus's MVP stacks up at this point right now?

And is there a voter for Teague considering his production and what he's done this season? Well, 100% there's a voter fatigue. Anybody saying that there's not, it's just nuts. The fact that that man hasn't been, you know, cast as the forerunner, at least as of late, is crazy. And I get it, Jokic and Embed are both having great years. And I supported, you know, Embed last year for being more of a candidate than he wound up being.

Like, I thought he had a great year. But the fact is, you know, he scored. two more points a game than Janice, but Janice is right there in terms of points, more rebounds per game, more assists per game, I'm pretty sure as I'm looking at it. He's a better defender than both of those dudes. His team is number one in the east again. In the league, they're going to have the number one seed barring any kind of catastrophe down the stretch.

So his team's better, he's as good or better offensively. he's he's much better defensively i just i mean i don't have to be you know what you always bothers me bro let me sidebar let's do it all this bullshit about like like you ain't got to be no damn stats nerd or digging into the minutia every goddamn game it's not that fucking complicated miss me with that shit yeah i'm talking to you you know who you are i'm talking to you miss me with that dumb shit watch the games man yes yonis is it mbp should be the MVP this year stammer that shit. And if you, if you watched games, you'd see the nuances in his game, right? You'd see the, you see the skilled development. You see that man last night work his way across midpost,

middle of the lane, up and under, bump, and one. He did not have that two years ago. You see him catch on the right block, split stance into a show on the fadeaway, get his man up, it was James Hardin, and then get to the rim. Those are new ones. He didn't have that in his game a couple years ago. So like, yeah, I know you see the power. in the raw, like, aggressiveness. And I love that you said he's never on chill mode because I really appreciate that about him. But on top of that,

he's continued to add to his arsenal. He passes it better than he ever has. His skill development and continued evolution is there. So, yeah, Janus is my guy. And I do think there's such thing as voter fatigue, for sure. I mean, you see it all the time. You just get used to seeing it. And then there's narrative driven, right?

With Yokic, I mean, you can make the argument for my man, Stevie, right? Like the year that everybody thought, Kobe should have won it. It happens. And it is what it is. It's life in the city. But anybody sitting here telling you, Yonis shouldn't be equal part MVP candidate as the other two. You're bugging. When you hear that he is third, Raja, does that grind your gears a bit more? Like, does that grind your gears even more

of the fact that he is third, right? Because you can make the argument for second, right? Like, I could see Yokas being number one, like, especially with his performance this season, and now Yonis is coming on. But it feels like when Janus is third, it doesn't take it to account his last few weeks, right? Because back to your point about narrative-driven, when, especially around the backstretch of the season, you need signature wins as an MVP candidate to close out the season. And especially, Janus has had those signature wins against the, especially NASDAG against Embed, you have these type of wins where you're sending messages and I feel like the messages that Yana sins at the very least should get him second,

Raj. We are to some degree splitting hairs when you're comparing these three players. They're all great. Right. And, and, you know, if you're going to tell me fractionally you have Embedd over Yokic, I mean, I'm not going to argue with you, right? And if you told me you had Yokic over, like, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it just grinds my gears.

But I do think that if you are, if you're watching those games and we have to split hairs and, you know, points per game or relatively even and boards per game are all within a board, a game. Like, you know what I mean? And obviously, Yokic, you know, is a better playmaker with the ball in his hands. But defensively, you know, he's more of a liability than the other two. And so we're talking about pretty even, like, if you're going to do all of that, then I'm going to ask you to go to whose teams better and who's winning war games. who's positioned their team better in this race that is, you know, NBA supremacy. And that is he honest. And so I guess I would then have to be upset if I'm telling you all of that.

If he can claim all of these things and say his team is the number one team in the league and he's been there for a while, like this isn't the first time and that you're going to tell me he's the number three. Like, yeah, probably. But I'm not, again, not like the end of the world because everyone's great. But I do think when you start to talk about greatness, we do this all the time when we're comparing all-time grades, right? Logan, there has to be something that separates,

and it's usually championships, right? And it's rings. And so as it pertains to an MVP conversation, like there's got to be something when everyone's great and has all these great numbers that separates. And I'll go with the guy who's got his team in first place. Well, not only does he have his team in first place, Roger. He did it with large stretches without his number two in the lineup, right?

Like, it's helped that Middleton is back now. But Janus is one of those players where, I mean, if you want to compare him to LeBron, like the one man like contender, you get what I'm saying? You put Janus on every single team. They're automatically a contender. You don't got to build nothing. You don't have to do. You can do what Dallas is doing with Luca.

And I'd still bet on Janus to get them somehow into the Western Conference finals, right? Do you know why? I mean, aside from because that man is just. he will do things defensively. He cleans up a lot of messes. And the MVP ain't never been about defense. But in this particular case, it is also one of those separators.

Like, that's why he could do that, because of the physical ability to just take over offensively and do those things and command double teams and so on and so forth, collapse your defense. But because defensively, he's putting out all fires.

And he's doing it in a conference. The Eastern Conference is as best as it's ever been in the last few years, right? I mean, it's the first time. I think it's the first time. the Eastern Conference, don't quote me on this, but quote me on this.

I think it was the first time the Eastern Conference had more wins than the Western Conference in the last few years, right? Like, it's a really deep conference. And Janus is, he is,

as the leader of the number one team in the Eastern Conference in a conference that has the Boston Celtics with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum on its heels, right? And a conference that has

the Philadelphia 76ers with Embeddee on his heels. The Cleveland Cavaliers on his heels, right? Like, very stacked Eastern Conference, and then you juxtapose that what Yok is doing, and I'm not discrediting in his numbers per se, but like, yo,

but this is one of the weakest Western conferences we've seen in decades, right? Like, this is not, this is not necessarily a, they haven't been dominant. Now, they've been dominant, relatively speaking to the West, but like, they haven't been just dominant, dominant, and

I think that has a lot to say about, you know, what the Eastern Conference has been, but also what Janice has been with this, without Middleton, without with the injuries and things like that. And I think that that's what kind of makes me feel bad for Janice in this, because, man, he has put in the resume for this. And also, we also have a recency bias too. And he is playing up to that because he is playing his ass off over the last few weeks,

when it matters most, when the games get tighter, you know, when they need to maintain their standing in the Eastern Conference, he has put the team on his back. whereas Yokins, they have such a big lead in a trash conference where he's been able to just sit out games and just chill. How much does that play a part into your anger too, Rosas? You see the leading guy who wasn't playing in big games down the stretch. Well, I mean, that doesn't really bother me because you're putting team potential success over chasing this MVP, and I will always support that.

what's critical for these guys down the stretch if your team is trying to win a championship is being healthy and being as close to 100% as you can be when the playoff starts. So if sitting out a game is part of that equation, I guess it's easier when you've secured multiple MVPs like Yokic and, you know, Mb might be thirsting for it a little more,

but I will always support that. So, you know, I, it doesn't, it doesn't bother me. But now, if you're telling me that, again, we are in this super tight race and everyone is, is in and around the same benchmarks, we have to look for separators. We have to look for things that, that, that, you know, can help us sort through this in a way that, that is fair. And, you know, playing down the stretch with big games and big matchups has to be a part of that. I was disappointed, you know, to some degree when Mb didn't play in Denver, right? Like, I would have liked to have seen that. I thought that could be a separator.

But again, supporting you making sure that you're healthy. And this is part of what we've, you know, identified as the process to get you as close to 100% going to the playoffs. I'm okay with that. But we are looking for separators, Logan. And so I'd be lying to you if I didn't say, yeah, like playing in the best conference, leading it, playing without Chris Milton. It was a great point by you. and having moments down the stretch where you're playing in these big games

and delivering, like that's all got to be a part of the equation. On another level, though, I appreciate Janus just going to go get it, right? Like, he's saying, this is the you got me fucked up stretch of the season for him, apparently, right? And he's just saying, well, fuck it.

I'm just going to go on the court and I'm going to figure this out. But I do like that part of it, right? Because that's sports, man. Like, you feel like you slide it, you go ball out, you figure it out. But what is this game, what is this game last night against the Sixers at home down to stress and he's the last week of the season

do you think that this will change what how people look at Janus's season and what do you think that do you think that this will actually ultimately be good for him like yeah man he went and go went a stolen MVP down to stretch and he went and go he went and go got that look if we're in this tighter race is it seems like and Janus winds up pulling it out I'm sure these games down the stretch are going to weigh heavily on some of the voters, right? Like, they'll have to. I think last night, and see, the thing about the bucks is I think the bucks are at a point as a team where it's less about that.

And it's more about securing the number one seed and trying to get back to the finals and win it, right? So, so, you know, the game last night, and while I appreciate everything that Janus is doing, I think you saw him play in a way that wasn't chasing an MVP, as much as it was chasing, you know, this win against the team that we might face in, in the Eastern Conference playoffs at some point and wanting to, you know, really execute in a way

that provides a blueprint for how to beat them moving forward, right? And now that's in my mind and that's in their mind. You know, kind of the way Boston did to them a few nights ago, albeit that was, what, three and four and on a back-to-back, but that's what you want to do to those teams that you're going to see in the playoffs right before the playoffs start, giving the opportunity to do it.

So I do want to play a little devil's advocate. Now, to the conversation about, you know, I don't know, I think the more I'm thinking about this in the stream of consciousness, the idea that, you know, person wins it too much. It is funny to hear Yannis and his teammates say, oh, such as such, you know,

maybe Yonis wins too much, considering, like, Yokic is the front runner, and he's won the last two MVP's. You get what I'm saying? Where it's like, if you could also make that argument for Yokic, you know, like where he won it too much and he's doing,

and he's doing that, right? So I think, I just want to play devil's advocate on that part and be like, yo, man, I get it. I think Yana should be MVP. He is slighted to some degree. But that, that argument rings hollow

in the grand scheme of things. You know what I'm saying? Where you're like, oh, he wins it too much, but Yolka just won it too straight. Well, is it, I mean, Yeah, I don't know that that argument is the greatest argument, although I think you do become, I think you do become kind of immune and callous to what you're watching with Janus, just the sheer physical. You have no idea what that looks like. I think people, it was kind of like the Steph Curry thing a little bit.

Like, your layman, your normal person can relate to Steph in a way that they couldn't necessarily relate to LeBron. you start taking what LeBron is physically and skill-wise for granted. You know, like you start to normalize that. That's not normal. Do you know what I mean? And then Steph is like, yo, I can relate to that. Like he's out there cooking. I think there's a little bit of that into Yolkich,

even though no one's walking around here seven foot and stuff like he is. But because he's not doing it above the rim and with sheer, you know, like force, athleticism and stuff like that, there's a little bit of an appreciation from people in a way that they had for Steph. at one point. Can you dig what I'm saying? Does that make sense? And I think you start to normalize what Janus does.

And I think that would have been the better argument for his teammates. Not he wins too much. People start to normalize like that is an everyday thing. It is not. Well, do you think also that the average person may see themselves more in Yogids than they do in Janus? You know, or they just, like, you know, Yonit seems like he's very, very open about the fact that he's not athletic, right? And he's funny. Like he makes fun of it.

But like he's bawling, right? He's bawling. I think this is absolutely. And I do think there is some of that. And again, I think it happened with Steph too. So Yokic, you know, and this is one of the things that I think Yokic fans, you know, hang their head on. He's just, he outthinks you, right? Like, because he might not be able to out physical you or outspeed you or out jump you,

he out thinks you. And there's also a lot of connotations to that, too, that we, that we all know about, right? You know? For, for sure. And but, but that's, that's the thing, right? Like, oh, my God, he's so brilliant. He just out thinks you. And people, that doesn't, just because he doesn't have any other real way to do it,

doesn't mean that, like, Embed or Janus don't do it too. Like, I just want to say on that, man, like, even if there is a narrative of that, that's such bullshit, bro. Because, like, if you want to, like, take Yokic's smart over a guy like Janus, and I'm not saying that, you know, like, that Yokage isn't smart, but for you to just make that as your argument that has wild connotations in two, man. Like, Janus is, for, yeah, he's athletic and he's able to do that, but for Janus, I think about the block, right, where Janus has, you know how hard that is to make that, that,

that, that, uh, rotation in the NBA finals. It, a dumb person couldn't do that, right? Or are you even talking about how Janus has expanded his game with the pump fake here and then getting to his, his, his spot and getting this person out of position? that takes smarts, right? Like, there's a lot of athletic people that we have both seen that are freaks of nature

that can't do stuff that Yanas does, right? Or Embed, for that matter. Embed is one of the smartest and high IQ basketball players out there. And I'm not saying you necessarily with that argument, but that argument has been out there and it's bullshit.

Well, it's definitely not me because I'm sitting here telling you, like, again, I think Yokic is brilliant. But because it's really, he doesn't have the ability to just physically, you know, overwhelm you in a run-jump like power situation all the time,

it stands out because it's, it's kind of glaring. It's the only thing you're really looking at, right? But it doesn't take away. And what I was saying was it does not mean just because those other two are able to do it in physical ways, it doesn't mean that their brilliance isn't as brilliant.

You know, that's really messy sentence. But the point is they've just got other things. So, you know, it doesn't mean that they don't have the ability to dissect you up top and they do. And I'm not saying that people are using that as the reason that Yokic should win the MVP. These are just arguments to your point and, you know, that you've heard and things that pop up when you are trying to split these hairs and you are trying to figure out, you know, how a closely ran race like this, who the winner becomes at the end. And so I would just say, and this is kind of to what Janice's teammates were saying, I think what he does, not just the winning, Logan, but the size, the speed, the, the reading of situations as quick as and diagnosing as quicks.

It gets a little, it gets a little old for people. People start to take it for granted. It's the best way I can put it. And I would just say, man, like, and if you don't go to a game and sit close to that damn game and understand how big that man is, just if you don't do that and then marvel at some of the things that those dudes are like, then then you can't understand. You should never take that for granted. That is not human. That is not human, man. Like, it isn't.

It is. I mean, there's like a 0.0001% of humans that can do that. I haven't had a good season in terms of seeing the MVP candidates in person yet. like or at all fucking missed yonis fucking uh when he were when he was in the bay sat out the game and i was out of town for the imb game and i haven't seen yoke and shit but like to all three of those guys like when you see him up close and in person you see a masterclass in basketball bro like just in different ways and just how just how to dissect the game like i wasn't at the game but i saw the uh the highlights bro imb against the warriors man just fucking

Dude, just systematically speeding them every time down the floor and just finding different ways to make baskets, dude. It was just, it was special to watch, man. So, yeah, if you guys have an opportunity to go watch these guys, those three specific guys all the way around, bro, go fucking do it, man. Bax. No, listen, you treat yourself. Yeah, yeah. Let's take a quick break. I got something that I just want to ask, Raja, and I think that's going to lead into the Western Conference standings in the back half.

but there's something that I just need to pick his brain about next. All right, Rajah, I was, had a busy weekend. And right before we got out of the pot, I was just catching up on my NBA stories. And one of the stories that I saw was Kauai Leonard. I got it from the newsletter that I subscribe to. My guy, Tom Ziller, who does great work with the Good Morning. It's basketball.

Kind of put me up on game, just everything from the weekend. So I see this Kauai Leonard story. where Kauai, they're playing a big game. You know, the L.A. Clippers are in the thick of the playing race and trying to get a postseason birth in general, right? They're playing against the grizzly have a double-digit lead. And at halftime, after halftime, Kauai just sits. He just sits.

And that's not the biggest thing in the world, right? And on the surface of that, right? Where a guy just ends up sitting, you get it with the medical team. But the caveat here is the rest of his teammates had no idea that he wasn't medically or he wasn't medically cleared to go back into the game. And they wind up losing

by double digits to the Grizzlies. And Kauai's teammates has to answer for his absence. They wound up winning the next game. I think Kauai scored 40. And this happened on, what I'm referencing happened on Friday. And then Kauai went on and he scored 40.

And now the clippers are still within the, are still in the race for a Western Conference play in birth. Right now they are, our fifth in the Western Conference. But I think that this speaks to just kind of the problem that I've had with the Clippers under the Kauai era. And by extension, just the Clippers right now in general, like, when Kauai does stuff like

this, and I get it, you know, you kind of want to be, you know, he's really stealth with, you know, his body and his injury. I mean, it's fine. LeBron is the same way. But like when your teammates are left in the dark and have to answer questions for you on your behalf, I feel like this is a recurring thing, not just with his, injuries, but just Kauai always makes other people answer for him. And I just, I don't, I don't like, I don't like what I see when that happens. I think that's just a disservice to, to his teammates.

But you played in the league, Roger. Like, what does this do when these type of things occur? And this isn't the first Kauaiism that happens, but it's just a recurring thing. What do you think about this and by extension what's happened during Kauai's tenure with the Clippers? First of all, I could tell you for certain is the one thing that I do know for certain. I as a teammate of yours would not want to be having to answer questions that should be directed towards you. That's not my job. I don't want to be up there answering your bullshit. Okay?

Now, that's number one. the fact that they were in a game of some magnitude and he couldn't come back into the game and no one knew that and that wasn't expressed to his teammates and people were caught off guard by that that's just strange to me like that's that's usually I mean that's a communication error from from training staff to head coach to players there's you know at some point if I look around and Amari Stademeyer was on the court for half the game and Amari Stadamire hadn't come back into the game, I'm going to, hey, where's a Mari? Like, someone would be like, hey, we're without Mari for the rest of the game.

So, like, that is just a, that's just a weird disconnect to me. I certainly, after the game, don't want to be answering questions about that. If, if, if, um, if you could stand up there for yourself and answer questions about that. And, and so as, as it pertains to, like, the clippers overall and what this, this has looked like, you know, it, it just confirms for me that when you're dealing with the Kauai, And this isn't just a Kauai situation. This isn't just a basketball situation. This is any kind of sport or therefore,

probably any kind of workforce. You can have really, really talented people that you think if brought into the fold will help you get from point A to point B. And it makes sense to have them there. And they're not always your leader. And you then have to go identify, you know,

someone else that can support them in a way. And they might not be as talented. And they might not be the guy or girl that you go to or woman that you go to at the end of the day for production when you absolutely need it. But they have to be culture driving. They have to be steady and solid. They have to be dependable. They have to be able to stand in the face of media fire or what have you and stand tall and handle their business in a way that reflects the sentiments of the club and the organization. and you know, Kauai's just not that.

So whenever you bring in Kauai, you just have to bring in the talent of Kauai. And then you got to surround that with things that can drive culture, can be stable, can probably win without Kauai. And then when you, when Kauai is available and Kauai's, you know, ready to rock, you drop him in and that gets you over the top.

Oh, so you're talking about the 2019 Toronto Raptors. Correct. Exactly what you're saying. Correct. Correct. So it's interesting. And I also want to say this, like, according to the LA Times, the team said his abbreviated night was a tradeoff for allowing Leonard to be able to play Saturday in New Orleans. So played a second night of a back-to-back.

I'm just like, bro, if you're going to sit him for the second half, just sit him for the game, you know, and just communicate that. Like, what's the, like, why would you play a half with your star player? First of all, I'm not going to say this has never happened in that capacity. people have played half of a game and for one reason or another they don't finish the game. And I haven't been in the NBA for a decade. But typically, and when I was with the Cleveland Cavaliers, the conversation behind closed doors as it pertains to that, because we've had players lobby for that is it's not worth it.

Like if we're going to sit you in any real capacity and you're not going to play the second half, you might as well take the entire night off. Exactly. Right. And get, because you've already put on a workload, even if it's just half of a game, through the warm up through the day, through the half of a game that you played, it would be more worth it. And you're fucking up the team's rhythm. Yeah. So I've never heard of that. I can't say unequivocally that it hasn't happened, but I've never heard of that. That's what, but that's the interesting

thing with Kauai, man. He's one of those players, and I think you kind of hit me to this when we talk about Anthony Davis, right? And like, there's other players like this in the league that are supremely talented and justify being a number one, right? And I think Kauai has obviously had a better resume than you know like he has two titles and anthony davis has won and kawai has led his team two titles right this was a bit of a different case but i think you see where i'm going with this right where like kawai is ultra ultra ultra ultra talented he's amazing he's one of the best players of this generation he's actually one of the faces of it right but when you see the places that he's won the things that he has had in place for him have made it so made it so easy to where he doesn't have to talk

to the media, right? He doesn't have to explain himself because he's in an organization like the San Antonio Spurs who has the, whose voice is Greg Popovich, right? You don't necessarily need like these strong-minded players or these strong-minded people when you have a strong-minded coach like Greg Popovitz in that locker room, right? And then he gets traded and he goes to Toronto where he has an infrastructure, right? Besai Uziuri, strong personality, right? He has Kyle Lowry at the time who Honestly, I went to that finals in Toronto. They love Kyle Lowry there. He's already an established voice already there. Kauai didn't have to say a word that whole postseason. Didn't have to say anything, didn't have to explain himself at all. But now you go to Los Angeles and this is your team. The Clippers are your team, right?

You're going to have to answer for your team and consistently, not even just this, other people have had to answer for you. Whenever your teams lose in early and the, like the Clippers have failed on such lofty expectations year in and year out, right? And he doesn't explain himself. Now, I know that there's injuries involved and I know what that is, right? But then it's a consistent thing where you have other people speaking for you. And that doesn't make you an effective leader in today's NBA, right? Because say if Kauai doesn't have as much pressure on him right now because he's with the Clippers.

and it's just not the same media spotlight. But say if he made that choice to go to the Lakers, right, Roger? If he goes and makes a choice to go to the Lakers, it doesn't matter if you don't want the media scrutiny because you're going to get it every single time. Would he have been able to handle that? No. The history suggests that he does not able to handle that

because he can barely handle it on the Clippers, and that's just very disappointed. I think this is just an extension of that. Well, I think all that's fair. And you're right, and the word that jumps out is infrastructure, sure. It's what, you know, it's what has to be in place when you get these kind of really unique talent slash personality combos. You know, and I would just say, like, you're right in that, that type of personality isn't really a leader in today's NBA.

I would argue that it didn't lead in any generation of NBA player because leadership hasn't really changed in terms of what you need in a locker room. like sure the you know the the the the the verbiage and the workload and some of that might have changed but what you need from a a a personality in a leader that that hasn't really changed like there are different ways to do it um but they've always kind of been that you know what i mean and i don't think that his personality necessarily lends itself to being the face and the and the leader so there has to be very very strong infrastructure and a kyle lowry type of person like you know you had it in san antonio not just the infrastructure and the coach, mind you.

You had obviously Pop and Maasai in in, in, in Toronto that that from up top insulate him, right? Like, you know, they, they protect you on the top layer, but you also need someone in the locker room. And San Antonio had stars, like all-time grates. There were insulation in the locker room. And, you know, like Kyle Lowry, albeit not maybe an all-time great, but he was certainly the face of Toronto for a long time and doing things.

And he had the separation of being in another country, too. Like, not to say, I love Toronto. I got a lot of love for the six, right? But, like, again, that is another country to us. And like, whatever happens around there, but that insulates you in itself. That great point. And so, like, LAC, here's the thing about Kauai.

Would he have been able to really handle the Lakers' scrutiny and whatnot? I don't know because you don't ever hear from him. Like, you know, but what would have happened was you would have gotten to a point where, where, you know, some of the things that happened and some of the curious like moves that are made by Kyrie and some of just the mystery surrounding him, that noise from the outside and the speculation would have gotten so loud had you been a Laker that it wouldn't have allowed it to work. Can you dig what I'm saying? Like it's just, it's too much. Well, I will say this. So like the plan at the point was to pair him with LeBron,

which would have been a like, which honestly would have probably been the best thing for him in that time, right? Because LeBron has to, because think about it during the time where Kauai is potentially a Laker, right? There were so much. many things that happened that during that stretch, you talk about Kobe dying, right? Or the bubble season, right? And we saw how, and I'm saying like take LeBron away from the Lakers and just put Kauai in that same position. You needed a state representative to talk all the time about Laker issues and especially during that stress. You needed people to be a spokesperson for the Lakers organization. That can't be Magic Johnson at that point in time.

That can't be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at that point in time, right? That can't always be Jeannie Buss. We need someone that is a face of this team at this point. I struggle to think Kauai could have done all of that. But if he was there with LeBron, I don't

know how well he would have took to it. I don't know. I can't speak to that question. But the strong personality, I think that he overshot wanting his own team with actually seeing what a have been better for him. Like, though, nobody would have been, it would have been a great team.

No one would have, LeBron could have spoke for all that. All of that is right in terms of what the Lakers needed, the CEO and all of that. I don't think Kauai would have handled that. But here's what I can't, and unless you really know Kauai and I don't, I can't really speak to, is I've told you they're players like this. They fall into this category. They don't want to lead. Okay.

And this is the weirdest category to be in, right? Don't want to lead. And that's fine. plenty of people that don't want to lead, they just get in line and they follow. But when you get in this weird category is where you won't lead, but you don't want to follow, right? So you just want to kind of be your own independent state over there. And I can't answer this.

Maybe when he looked at LeBron, because LeBron is very demanding, LeBron is very structured in terms of, you know, the way he thinks things should work and what, you know, the club needs to do in order to make things work. and it's provided like championships in places, you know, that hadn't won whatever, right, Cleveland. So like, that's tried and true. Maybe Kauai looks at that and he's like, while I don't necessarily want to lead,

I ain't trying to be doing all of that shit either. And so even though it might be like a perfect spot in terms of insulation, he already beat LeBron in the finals. He doesn't see LeBron in a way that like, he's not going to go be like number two to a guy like that. Right. Well, I'm not even,

I wasn't even really necessarily touching on that, but that's a fair point too. I was just particularly talking about this scenario set up where you were saying it's got everything that could have been good for him in terms of off the court. Like I'm not even talking about what he did on the court. He might look at that and I can't, again,

I cannot speak to it. I don't know him well enough, but he strikes me as a potential candidate for this. Yeah, I'm not really into that either. Like I'm not sitting here telling you I'm going to lead this team, but I'm also not about to be taking orders from that. Right, right. You know, like I just want to do me.

fuck man I just wish he stayed in Toronto bro I just wish he did it like I think it would have been great for the game if he stayed in Toronto it's weird how that thing works out and I understand the allure of L.A you want to be closer to home

listen West Coast is the best coast I tell you this every other podcast Raja I get it I understand right and but like it's just interesting just how how so many different factors

play out and someone's for agency and how they look at teams and just the bet that they put on themselves and teams that they partner with, right? Like, it's just interesting how it goes. Before we get out of here, I do want to kind of look at the goings-ons of the Western Conference playing run and what we got going on here. I want to make some quick predictions to see what we got.

No games tonight, but let's go into the Tuesday slate. You look at the bottom of the Western Conference, and there are some games, right? There are, I want to just throw some games that really have meaning within the, the Western Conference. We have the Golden State Warriors against the Oklahoma City Thunder Raja. And honestly,

where's it at? Where's it at? It's at Chase Center. I'll be at that game tomorrow. But it's I just got to say, man, the Warriors are just looking so sad. It's just, I don't know if you saw the highlights of last night's

game. It was just a very game. I saw the game. It was, it was like they fell asleep at the wheel, man. It was like, it was like lemony snickets, like a series of unfortunate events. It just whatever could go wrong went wrong. They just fell apart. Dude. Like, it's the game you have to have.

It's a Sunday. No one gives a fuck. They're not even playing. The nuggets aren't playing yokeets. And you can't get that done. And you're rolling. Yeah. They're getting everything they wanted.

One of the wildest case studies is these cats this year in terms of home and away. And I can't help but think it's. it's it's it's either you know it's it's certainly subconscious as it might even be conscious now where it's like you know it's crept into the mental in a way that you know you're snatching defeat from the the jaws of victory on the road like it's crazy bro that's what i was it's just insane like you know it's not Steve Kerr just said for end of the show Steve Kerr said they just we just stop playing we just stop playing basketball dude I didn't even see his post game but like That's exactly.

I mean, they just stopped pooping. Oh, it doesn't matter if they win tomorrow night. The Warriors are cooked, bro. Let's just say, call it what it is, bro. If you do pulled out things like that in that way,

and like, and I'm, you know I am the biggest Warriors apologist, right? Like, I have the biggest one that does all these things. But if you can't win games like that that are on a platter that are,

that are handed to you and these types of event that are just, you know what you do? You, and when you get a game like that on a Sunday, when the team is not playing their best player, You blow them the fuck out, right? You just send a message, whatever message that is. We've even won the game that we're supposed to win.

We go back home, right? Absolutely. You're not playing your MVP candidate? Come on, bro. That's not even a thing. Listen, you don't extract the piece like Andrew Wiggins and expect to win a championship. That's on top of, you know, what you've got going on mentally in terms of winning on the road right now. You take a piece like Andrew Wiggins off of the team and he's not available and we got a problem.

That game, though, does mean something. While I agree with you, the Golden State. is pretty much cooked in terms of winning a championship. I mean, it does mean something to Oklahoma City, though, right? Like, they're... Oh, it means something. It means something to both Golden State and Oklahoma City. I meant more so that Warriors championship asks for racing.

Oklahoma City has something to play for, bro. They're in the Tennessee right now. They think they're three... As long as they stay within the playing tournament, it's a successful season for Oklahoma City, bro. They're a team on the rise. You're right. So, they're going to play.

They cannot... Oklahoma City is going to play on Tuesday. They are going to play. And they play in big moments, man. I love watching Oklahoma City, especially at this stage of where they're at right now. I'm excited. I really love watching them play.

It's going to be interesting. It is going to be interesting to see what they do. So we'll see. Another interesting matchup that we talked about, we talked about this team at least pre-game or pre-pod. And this is the Timberwolves and the Nets. in Brooklyn on Tuesday night, Raja. We both have feelings

about the Minnesota Timberwolves. Listen, I want to hear what you have to say at this point. What are their chances? How do they feel? The Timberwolves are currently ninth in the Western Conference and had some very curious losses, sticking their chest out. They also have had some sickness and vibes right there. I want to give respect to that. But overall, I don't think we like the Timberwolf vibe right now.

What do you got to say about them? I don't have any beef with Timberwolves. Look, when I was on the last pod, right, we did a segment called believing their wraps or not. And in the process of saying I didn't believe their wraps, I misquoted a stat that Timberwolves fans just, I mean, you would think that I said something, you know, about the fabric of their community or the city. I just misquoted their defense stats.

I'm sorry. But the gist of it is I didn't necessarily believe their wraps. And the reality of this is, and there are a lot of NBA games, right? And so this is just generally speaking, man, like most of your favorite people that you watch, on TV, like, they're not watching every NBA game. They can't. And given the opportunity to, like, create a schedule to watch games,

they're going to watch more of the teams that are better and that people tend to talk about that have more going on. Your team is a sub-500 team right now. I'm sorry. It is what it is, dude. So, I mean, look, I don't know necessarily who's going to win that game. I'm trying to look at the damn, you know, Brooklyn is sloth. and in there. Brooklyn seems a little bit more secure. But Brooklyn, again, one of my favorite stories of the year, man. I know we talked about Brooklyn at length around the trade and with the Steve Nash thing.

But, dude, Mikhail Bridges. Friend of the show. McKell Bridges and what he's been doing in Brooklyn is one of my favorite things of this NBA season. And I don't even know how sustainable it is. And I don't give a fuck. I don't care. Real talk. Real tone.

I just wanted to say real quick, because I saw, the tweet, I saw the tweet that you sent the Timberwolves fan base and it was hell of funny. You know why? Because you said, yeah, I made a mistake. Guess what? The question was, do I believe the reps? And the answer is still no. But still no. It's no. And I apologize for the misquote of the defense's stats. Like, truly, I do. I'm sorry.

But I still don't believe in the rats. You're a sub-500. That's on wax. I didn't get that wrong. I'm looking at it right now. Maybe you'll be above 500 when the season ends. Not currently right now. I don't think I'll believe their reps ever. Like, not as a team is currently constructed. And I, you know what, man? Just throw the smoke at me.

I don't really care. I love Minneapolis. Do not love the Timberwolves. And the reason being is because just, I watched them a couple weeks ago, man. And I just didn't like what I saw. And this was a Timberwolves win. This is by the way, right? Like, this was, I just don't like, I don't think what they have and their best is

sustainable for what the Western Conference needs. like to win in a Western conference year and year out. What, but what we let's clear up what you're saying though because what you'd like them to do is build around ant like you want you want you want you want a better situation around again. Yeah. I want them to

in a perfect world just build around ant I think they're in my my my I guess beef with the Timberwolves is they're stuck in too many different eras and they don't know what identity they want to be. They have an all world player who was the youngest, and I believe everything he wraps both literally and figuratively

and Anthony Edwards, right? I believe everything he is saying. I believe him. And I honestly, I am scared if he is not on my team. I think that he is coming for you. I think he has a special bright future. And I think anyone who sees them play knows that he is the future of that squad. And I think they just need to build around them and just say,

yo, man, I think there was 1984, rise. Let's go down memory lane. where Los Angeles Lakers were in the midst of the showtime era, right? And there came a point where Kareem Abdul-Jabbar just wasn't the best player on the team anymore. But he's captain, he is the cap,

and they needed to pass the baton in order for the long-term success of the Los Angeles Lakers, they needed to pass the baton to a guy by the name of Irvin Magic Johnson. Right? And they passed that baton, and guess what? Magic won an MVP,

and help them win three more titles, right? Am I comparing Anthony Edwards to Magic Johnson? No, I am not. What I am saying, though, is there comes a point. What about Katta Karim? What about Katta Karim? Hell no. What I'm saying is there comes a point where it's obvious

that you need to pass the baton to a person that is worthy and see what he or she or they do with it, right? Yeah. That is the point I think we are in Minnesota, and I am sick and tired of seeing the middle ground being played. When you try to please everyone, you please no one and just make a decision. And that's why I am with the

Timberwolves. We have more things that we need to talk about. There are other games, Raja. But that is my take on the Timberwolves. We have, this is the third Icai, Kiggity Kern portion of the pod. We have Lakers Jazz. Now, the Lakers

are currently in the seventh seed right now in the Western Conference, but are ascending. They have played really well over the last few weeks. And LeBron is in his bag. He's saying, I like what I see from the core that we've had that are around me. And we're thinking championship. What do you think about that statement? And how do you see them playing down this stretch? Because they are tough right now. The Lakers are a fun team to watch. And they have a nucleus and they have like supporting cast

that I really like, Rob. Look, they're as hot as anybody right now. They're dangerous. If you see LeBron, he's got a pet back in his step, you know, injuries can be weird like that. you get a little extended period of rest in a weird part of the season. And while we thought it was catastrophic, you know, clearly it provided him some much needed rest. Like he's got some pop back in his legs. And since the trade deadline with the pieces to kind of round out that roster and shape it a little bit more while he was out.

Anthony Davis hit his stride. The team starts playing well. And so now LeBron's back in the mix playing well too. And it looks good. I worry for them. And so I would look, again, in a Western conference that, by most people's accounts is wide open and is like the Wild Wild West.

Anyone could win that. I like the Lakers. I mean, I like them as much as I like anybody. I worry about them if they, you know, in a one game. I'd feel a lot better if they could get out of that playing because I still think there's a little bit of variance from night to night,

a little up and down in their play. And I'd be worried about, you know, every team should worry about a one game scenario, right? Obviously, it's a lot more dicey. but specifically for the Lakers where they're at, they're playing great basketball, and they'll just keep getting better, which is the scary thing.

If health is sustained, I think they'll keep playing better. They'll find even a higher level to play, but that one game scenario is a little scary. A question for the Lakers, and we have two more matchups that we need to go to, but a quick question, and I just want to ask this,

when you talk about the Lakers and you talk about health, because that is the biggest question mark going into this postseason, right? It's a fucking marathon going into the post season. season. How does postseason play in the way that schedule set up? How does that help in terms of health? You know, you have a day off rest the next game.

You know, you always have that two or three day stretch, especially in the first round between games. How will that help a team like the Lakers? Should they just get into the postseason outright? Yeah, no. Look, the Lakers, even the and the Bucks, right? And then you know, ask me about the Bucks, but teams that have, you know, a little bit of age on them, or if you're stars, your bread,

winners have a little bit of age on them. That penciled in rest, knowing that you're going to get it, allows you to attack recovery in a way that you can't always do in the regular season. So, you know, that older team or that older player may come to your city on, you know, the third or fourth night in like four games and seven or whatever they play now. And he might not look good, you know, because it's just wearing on him. Like he can't get the rest that he needs. but in a playoff scenario,

when you've got that penciled in rest, especially early in the playoffs where there are a ton of games and you might cop a two-day rest. Like, I forgive me, I don't know what the schedule's looking like now, but you used to be able to maybe get three days rest, bro. Like, you're set up for a team like that

that has legs with a little bit of mileage on them to really get fresh and get a great look out of them every night out. Now, obviously it doesn't mean you're going to win every night, but you're going to see them a lot closer to what 100% looks like at this point in the season than you would if they weren't getting that rest. I feel that. Let's see. Lakers, as long as they stay healthy as as as as as tough a matchup

as any team in that, in that stretch. I've got two more for you, Raja. Now, Kings Pelicans Tuesday night, which is a very interesting matchup, right? Because the Pelicans are still in the playing. Let me look at their, where they are. They are currently eighth, right? They are a half game. They are tied with the Lakers. They are a half game out of just an outright playoff spot, which is honestly with the Pelican season. Wow. Wow. Right. But then you have this Kings team who is very interesting.

And I've been kicking it around them for the last couple of weeks. Just to just see, you know, they're in my backyard. Just want to look at them and see how they are going to the postseason. The Kings are an interesting team because they haven't, they have clinched, but they're very much a new playoff team. They're very much one of those teams that still haven't gotten the right wins yet, right? they're still searching for the right wins. And this will be a great right win for them, if that makes sense. Where do you see this going?

What do you think about both teams at this very moment going into this final stretch? Interesting. The game itself, if I were the Kings, I mean, I'm sure you want to get people rest, but there's some youth over there. And I would be airing on the side more of trying to keep continuity flowing, you know, and continuing to play good basketball, even if that meant, you know, I'm not playing you the same amount of minutes every game, you know, but I'd be reluctant to start just giving dudes the night off like I would probably do with an older

team in that situation, if that makes sense, Logan. I'd probably play dudes and just kind of shorten the minutes a bit. I like the kings. I think the kings are for real, you know, they've done it over the course of a whole season. It's just, look, again, the West is so unpredictable that while I tell you, I really like the Kings, you know, there are some matchups that you could draw where I tell you I would not be surprised

if they were beaten by like, let's say, a golden state. Right? Like, still, right? Yeah. You don't get ourselves back into it, right? Right. Like, I wouldn't be hell of surprised if that happened. And then as far as the Pelicans go,

you know, it's been kind of a, I don't want to use the word disaster because it's not like, because, I mean, you're a half game out of our right playoff spot. But from their perspective, what they thought it was going to look like coming into this season, I think they've got to be a little disappointed right now. But here's the crazy part about the Pelicans.

Because of what they can do to you, like defensively and with time to scheme for you defensively, and because they have those two dudes, right, because they have B.I. and McCollum that can get off script and just, you know, go above those Xs and O's and transcend whatever the play call is. Because they have those dudes, if they were to get in a way and get in a bag, they could be a problem for you in a series. Do you know what I mean? Sure. I mean, we saw that last year against Phoenix.

Right. So, you know, well, look, I don't know what's going to happen in that game. I guess what I'm saying is on one side of the coin, I believe Sacramento, obviously more than I believe in New Orleans. But because of the landscape of the Western Conference, like, I wouldn't be surprised, you know, if the Pelicans won a playoff series and Sacramento lost one. All right. Here we go. Last one. This is something near and dear to your heart.

You know I always have to save this team for last. The Phoenix Sun. who have won five straight, including yesterday at Oklahoma City. KD is back, the vibes are back. Let me tell you their schedule going in the last, their last four games is an interesting schedule. San Antonio Tuesday night,

which is the game that we're talking about. Then they have Denver at Los Angeles and then to end the season against the clippers. So they're playing spurs, nuggets, Lakers, clippers. interesting way to end the season. They have KD back. Honestly, if they run the table on this, man, it would be so, it would be really good,

not only for Kevin getting his legs back, but also you're talking about a son's team that is finding their stride at just the right time. It doesn't really matter like, you know, a couple weeks ago where they lost three straight. They were, you know, during the KD absence. They are finding their stride at just the right time, and they're as scariest team as ever,

especially if they run the table on this gauntlet that they have to end this week. What do you think about the Phoenix Suns right now? This matchup and beyond. Yeah, well, this matchup, I mean, I would like to think that the Suns are just going there and handle their business. They just got way more to play for and bigger fish to fry, if you will. The way I see this, it's an interesting way to end the season for the Sun specifically because they need this down the stretch.

With the absence of KD for as long as it were and you trying to get up to like optimum performance level down the stretch, you know, sometimes that can be difficult if your schedule shapes up where you're playing people that don't have anything to play for or, you know, they're out of, you know, for one reason or another, whether they're locked in or whether they're just ready to go home. But they've got some teams in there that are still jockeying and are some of the teams that they would have to potentially face in the Western Conference. So I think it's a good litmus test for them, right? And they have to find a way to condense hopefully, you know, this, this NBA half of a season that you've had KD or third of a season and get quality games, games that have some grit to them, games that have a little bit of that playoff atmosphere that put in situations. Like that Dallas game about a month ago where they won and suck it out. Yeah, they need those games. They need those in a way that other teams don't, quite frankly, because, you know, they've had their pieces longer. So I think it's an interesting setup for Phoenix. And if they do come through this, like if they run the table on this and they're playing at that level,

we just talked about the Western Conference being wide open. I mean, they are as dangerous as anyone. It's going to be an interesting week, man. The last week of the – I'm excited to see. We've got the last week of the regular season going into the play-in next week. It's going to be fun. Oh, before we get out of here, man, I just got to give a great little shout-out, man. This is a national championship night Monday evening, all right?

I don't know who you're going for Raja, but I'm going from all my podcast. partners on the Mesa. Shout out to all to San Diego State Aztecs. All right. Let's fucking go. All right. All my Aztecs, all in California. Y'all know who you are. Y'all know I rock with you. You know the vibes. Let's bring the fucking Natty back to the Mesa. All right. Let's stop, stop fucking around. Let's do it. I love San Diego State. I don't know if you've ever been on campus or have been around. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. San Diego's beautiful, man. It is a gorgeous campus. It's gorgeous campus. And I will co-sign that. It was a little heartbroken. I mean, I went to FIU and FAU is our

our biggest rival. A lot of confusion. Did you get a lot of text like, yo, Roger, your team's doing good. And you're like, no, bro, stop. Yeah, my friends did it out of spite

because they know that we get that all the time. But the fact was, I was pulling for FAU. I can appreciate San Diego State doing what they did. I'm not pulling for anyone. I don't begrudge you pulling for them, but I just want to see a good game. I'd like to see a really good basketball game the night.

I'm excited. Damn, bro. Your Florida team just couldn't make the cup, man. Miami couldn't do it. And Florida, FAU couldn't do it, man. Florida's, what fuck? What do you mean with the fuck? We'll take from a football state, having two teams in the final, in the final four, bro.

One of them being a mid-major, we're straight. We're show. All right, man. We'll see what happens, man. It was good to see Rai-Raw. We will see you guys on Thursday. Tap in all the shits. Talk to you later.

Bye.