The Ringer NBA Show - It’s Getting Heated; The Heat Steal Game 2 Against the Celtics

Episode Date: May 20, 2023

J. Kyle Mann and Tyler Parker return this weekend to discuss Game 2 of the Heat-Celtics Eastern Conference Finals with so much to breakdown. The guys touch on their broad takes of the series thus far (2:42), Heat nation and Pat Riley’s free agency pitches (4:24), first half stats (8:25), and specific player performances by Jaylen Brown (9:00), Duncan Robinson (10:40), Caleb Martin (13:52), Bam Adebayo (21:56). They also speak on a few game-making plays, the heated competition of Jimmy Butler vs Grant Williams (28:19) and Jimmy Butler’s incredible performance (37:04)! Hosts: J. Kyle Mann and Tyler Parker Producer: Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Ariel Hawani, and I wanted to let you know that each and every week, I'm part of a great program called The Ringer MMA Show. I hosted alongside two absolutely brilliant minds. Their names, Chuck Mindenhall and Pizzie Carroll, and every Thursday, a new episode drops where we preview the weekend in mixed martial arts and react to all the biggest news. Plus, after every UFC pay-per-view, we give you a post-fight show. So this is what you have to do. Just follow the Ringer M-M-M-A show on your Spotify app.

So you don't miss an episode. We'll talk to you then. Basketball is so very good, just continuously, everlasting, unfailingly good. We got another incredible conference finals game last night as Miami beats Boston 111 to 105. There's a ton to talk about, and I can't think of a better person to talk about it

with the TP, Tyler Parker, the man who spins electric yarns, actor. A generous fellow. He bought me pizza the other night. and some beer. Yeah. And Tyler, it's good to see you not in person this time. No.

We got to hang a little bit, but back here in Kentucky, wildly entertaining basketball game last night. Oh, man. I mean, the playoffs are really doing a good job so far as an entertainment property. I feel very proud of them, you know. I think that they need to keep doing what they're doing just as an entity. You know, I think they're on the upswing right now. Let's keep it going.

Yeah. So successful. you would think Kevin Feige was the commissioner of the league commissioner of the league I don't know about now yeah you know whatever phase

whatever phase we're on right now yeah I mean it was sad to see Rocket rocket rocket what all he had to deal with but I was going to say spoilers right I mean you know Tyler and I went and went to the AMC and watched Guardians together

yes we did grown men do we do you know that happens hey man I thought I had a lovely time I really did like it it's just it's just early for me You know, I think that's more the, that's the tone you're hearing.

There's excitement in my body, just not in my voice for the movie, you know? You got to catch Tyler in the middle of the day, because if it's too late, he's tired, if it's too early, it's just, you got to, we got to get some, some pep going. Anyway, speaking of pep, maybe Boston needs to get some pep going for the rest of this series. They now trail 02 to Miami. Miami comes into Boston and takes both games on the road. This is a Boston. There's a lot of things going on here.

I mean, the heat, the heat come into this game and they seem totally unafraid. What was the, what was the, what's your first just kind of broad takeaway from this, Tyler? Is it that the heat took it or Boston fumbled it? Which do you think it is? Or is it both? I mean, I think it's, I think it's mainly just that the heat took it. I mean, Boston did plenty of fumbling, especially late there. I think the takeaway for me is just, it has been historically pretty automatic.

for the higher-seeded home team who lost the first game of the series to come into game two and just run all over the other team. I mean, the home teams had won the last 16 game twos in series that they trailed 1-0. And I think the average margin of victory was something like 17 plus or something. They weren't just wins, right? they were decisive. And so, you know, you sort of expected those early Celtic runs, right? Like they have to play like the desperate team.

They can't lose, you know, they can't go down O2 to a place where right now, what, the heater 6 and O'N O'O in the postseason at home right now and really clicking. I mean, they're, yeah, to go down, I think they went down 12 twice, two different times, once before half time, once in the second quarter, and then they come all the way back to be up for it happened. I mean, it's just like, it's just incredible constant resilience and just them just playing the next possession and playing the next possession and playing the next possession and not freaking out and just staying who they are. Yeah, I mean, just a lot of resolve from the heat. Yeah. Talk a lot about heat culture, which it's getting to the point where I don't even know,

like, if people could just like rattle off what heat culture actually is, meaning I can parse that someday. But it seems to be an attitude in general. You know, you and I were joking about, I said, I would definitely watch a documentary, speaking just the heat at large. I would definitely watch a documentary just about Pat Riley's free agency pitches, you know? You had an interesting spin on that. Well, no, I just thought it might not be as good as we thought. Well, no, not that it might not be as good as we thought. It's just that it better be. If I'm after, after I hear the story of Pat bringing in the satchel of rings and dumping them out on the table. If I'm a, if I'm a free agent that feels like I'm pretty big time and Pat strolls into the

meeting and I don't get the rings dumped out on the table. I'm out. I want the rings. I want, I want them to, I want him to, to call the Gucci representative while we're out to dinner so he can pick out some belts. He doesn't even need to get me one. I don't need it. I'm not like a Gucci belt kind of guy. You know, I prefer something. I just want to see the belts. I just want to watch him buy it. I want to watch him try it on. Why does he like that one? What is it about that one, Pat?

Why that one? Little known part of the free agency pitch for Miami is that you get to watch Pat Riley buy belts. You don't necessarily have to participate, but it just makes, that's really one of the key parts of heat culture, you know, is, you know, Pat Riley buying belts. I think that you want that. And if it's me, if I'm coming in, if I'm a big time free agent, right and I'm wanting to be impressed. I want to go watch Pat and Alonzo Morning try on suits together. Obviously, they go to the same guy. That's obviously something that Pat got Zoe into. Right. For sure. For sure. I want to know where they go. I want to watch them talk through everything.

Every time that you see them together, it really looks like they could be wearing the other one's suit. You know what I mean? It like, it like, If they were the same size, I feel like they would be sharing clothes a lot. The taste feels very similar in dress there. Yeah. And it seems like, you know, every story seems to revolve around like jet skis going up to Alonzo Morning's house on the bay. I just feel like we'd hear a lot of interesting stories. We could get totally derailed in this and I know we will if I don't stop.

But back to the game. Yeah, I mean, it's it definitely swung back and forward. Oh, you're the one who has to keep control, Kyle. Is that it? You're the one who has to keep it on the rails? Is that what you're saying? Are you implying that I don't trust you to keep it on the rails? I'm raining you in, is what you're saying?

I'm kidding. We're going too far off base and Jay's going to get furious at us. We should get back to the game. I'm doing it for both of us. But yeah, there's also like interesting like big Lester Freeman vibes. Whenever I watch Lanzo morning, I'm just like, what is going on in that mind? I feel like Alonzo could like paint like miniature furniture like Lester Freeman on the sidelines. He just has that meticulous.

Like there's wisdom in there. Everything he says, I know is going to be hard hitting. I just, I don't know. I like the way that's aging. Yeah. He's obviously a man of, it seems like few words. It seems like a very thoughtful dude. Really, well, at this point, the thing he's probably most internet famous for is the meme where he's not saying anything.

He's just sitting there nodding and silently accepting something. He's just thinking through something bad that's. happening and he's reconciling with it in his own mind. He's saying, you know what? It is this bad. But it's going to, I guess the sun comes up. I guess it does. And so I guess it'll be all right. History is cruel and reductive, Tyler. We should only be so lucky that we could be remembered whatsoever, right? You know? And if it's a meme, it's sad that his career was was sort of forgotten and reduced down to a meme. And that's what the kids are going to think of. But, you know, yeah, go check him out, kids. He could block some shots. He could. Let's talk about this game. Okay. So in the first, you're right about the

swings. They went back and forth. And it seems like with the first unit here, you can see that like in the, in the first quarter, Miami led by as much as eight, and then it swings all the way back. In the second quarter, yeah, and Boston goes up 12. Miami comes back, goes, you know, goes up six. And then Boston builds a big lead here. They get up by as much as 12 going into the fourth quarter, and Miami comes back and makes a run and takes the lead and gets away with this. So really Boston led for a lot of this game. In this one, though, like, you know, I think the broad kind of, if you want to say, like, who played well, who didn't play well, your mind kind of goes to Jalen Brown at first.

Do you think that that, like, you think his wrist is bothering him still because he looked pretty erratic? He looked, he just looked out of sorts and he never quite could put it together in this game. He was a minus 24, not that like single game plus minus. you can waste a lot of time getting up or down about this, but it kind of did match the eye test. He was seven for 23 from the field, 30 percent, turn it over twice, one for seven from three, but he played 37 minutes.

How are you feeling about Jalen in this series? I mean, it's been rough. I would imagine it is still bothering him, right? I mean, I think the most disappointing part of it was some of the lapses defensively. you saw Robinson beat him back door a couple times, right? I think it's like there are certain mistakes that you can live with with Jalen, right? Like you understand that maybe the handle's not going to be quite as tight as you'd want it to, but you, you, those things are fine because everything's shored up all around it, right?

And whenever he starts getting leaky on the other end, and what BAM was doing with his passing throughout the game was massive for the heat. But they caught Jalen, you know, playing too far out a couple times. They caught them in some miscommunications where Robinson's coming off a pin down and two guys go with him, right? Jalen's trying to chase and Grant Williams thinks he's going to get on the top side and stay with him. And Martin just goes right to the room. I want to talk about that sequence. That's a key part.

But Duncan's, that's kind of the impact that you see. That's what's kind of amazing. I feel like this is more true than ever. And, you know, like Reggie Miller, I guess, was sort of the pioneer that kind of got this, that like threw this into the basketball, like scheme vernacular, that like this phenomenon of like a movement shooter pulling the defense uphill and then them creating backcuts. Duncan hit like a few shots in this game, but it always amazes me the power of a movement shooter like that, the power that they can have on the gravity of a game, you know, just hitting a

couple shots. You know, it can pay dividends to say you get two threes, but it might create, you know, just as much backdoor offense or, or just like driving lanes for his teammates as a result of the gravity that somebody like Duncan pulls. Totally. I mean, it's, you know, he's, I mean, Duncan's only out there for 20 minutes. He gets up six threes. And when he's, when he's hitting like that, just becomes all the more terrifying, right? You sort of have to guard him, strews, whether they're hitting or not, you kind of have to guard them like that,

no matter what, you just don't want to, you know, whatever Missoula said after the game, right, you don't want to let guys get going, but they did. And, like, I don't want to keep, like, you know, praising, like, you know, mindset and attitude of, like, they eat people or whatever, because it's going to get, it's going to get old and annoying.

but I mean for him to be largely out of the rotation and them to not only be comfortable enough to play him and you know no he's not going to get or just trust that he won't get played off the floor at the other end and if he does then we'll yank him right but to come in and give him 20 huge minutes in those moments and also not just get threes but also get stuff going to the rim and like you say using his gravity to help get other guys going. You felt him being out there kind of just gave Bam even more room to operate. Obviously,

Jimmy. But yeah, just another smart trigger pulled by Spow. Yeah, yeah, made a big difference in this game. And in the first game, I can't remember if it was you or I, you and I, but in the first game, you know, Miami goes 16 for 31 from 3, you know, 51.6%. They, percent, they get a huge, you know, three-point bolster to their, you know, from their tertiary guys. And I kind of postulated, I was like, or posited, I was like, well, you know, if you're Boston, you're still, you have enough offense to water the plans and keep things, you know, keep it going and score enough to win, basically is what I mean. And then if you, if you bank on maybe, you know, Miami, this team that was not one of the better three-point shooting teams during the regular season, you hope that maybe

they'll regress will be okay. These are the, these are the arguments you tell yourself when you're trying to rationalize what just happened, the trauma that Celtics fans and players and everybody are feeling as they walk away from that traumatic game one. Well, game two, just as traumatic, without as much three point offense, nine for 26, 34%, which isn't terrible, but it's not as crazy. Miami continues to just, you know, piece this together. I want to clear out for you here. You know, we're talking about, we're talking a lot about Miami's surging sort of supporting cast like Duncan. I need you to talk for a moment, Tyler, about Caleb Martin. I need you to just, this is something you're passionate about.

You and me and KOC and Corey were watching and Jomey were watching the game in the theater the other night. And I could just feel your proud parent energy from the other side. You were just, you're a big Cody or Caleb Martin fan. Sorry, his twin brother. Talk about Caleb Martin. Clear out. I'm out of the way. Go.

Thank you for the runway. He just, all year you watch heat games, and he keeps showing up and making winning plays. And they are beyond just energy guy, rah, raw, woo, look at me diving on the floor type stuff. There is all that stuff too. There's, you know, like he's a grinder, he'll guard, whoever, they'll put him on fours, you know, the hill guard point guards there's you know it's kind of they keep him super switchable but but then you know he's active in that zone too whenever they want to have those wings get up a little bit higher you know because they like to seems like they like to keep the they were talking during

the broadcast last night they like to keep this center a little bit lower like those old syracuse zones and kind of let the wings come up and so him and butler can kind of you know rove and try to eat people up like that but he is completely unafraid. He does not blink. This is a dude that was a two-way guy with Charlotte. They don't bring him back. Jay Cole's got to make a call to Karan Butler and be like, hey, my dude Caleb Martin's available. Y'all should check him out. He's a two-way guy for them, but just keeps putting in solid minutes for them last year. He's not a huge part of the rotation during the postseason last year.

But this year just keeps proving himself. Has huge games against the Bucks in the first round. Has a big game in MSG. Goes for 20 plus. And then, yeah, tonight, I mean, it's, there's, there's, there's, there's that run that's in, that's going on in the third quarter. It's been like a, it's been like a 10-0 run or something like this at this point.

I think Harlan calls it out. And there's like around like two, 20 left in the third and like the place is just going bonkers. And Martin gets the ball on the left wing and kind of tries to cross up Robert Williams. It really has no business thinking he can do this, but does it anyway. And Robert Williams sends his ship back. And Martin kind of gathers it back in the lane and kicks it to Butler. And just in the scrum just kind of loses Williams. Williams kind of sticks in the lane. And Martin just calmly relocates to the left corner. Butler kicks. it to him, Martin hits a three. The very next time, the very next defensive possession down the

floor, he kind of stunts down on Brogden a little bit. Lowry kind of, or Brogne just kind of dribbles it off of his foot. And then Martin gets out in transition, hits a layup. And he just, there are these plays that, right, like they're not plays that got them the lead. They're not these plays that are going to, you know, show up on SportsCenter or anything like that. But he just does these things to where he doesn't let the train get out of control going down the tracks. There's a constant level of activity and a willingness to, like, put himself out there and be like, okay, if you're going to guard me like I'm a role player, then I'm going to attack. And he went to the rim time after time after time. He attacked Robert Williams.

I thought he kind of liked the Time Lord matchup. He did. He was on him. I think maybe their thought was like maybe we can like let, you know, Williams roam a little bit on, on Martin. But Martin attacked him relentlessly, I thought. I'm with you. He got him a couple times. He got him with this like running right-handed hook at one point in the first half. that was kind of nuts, kind of goes on another one, from the right wing, drives middle, and kind of finishes on the other side of the rim with his inside hand with Jalen Brown and Robert Williams flying at him and still gets it to go. He had multiple kind of bounce, bounce pull-ups and stuff like that. The shot comes out a little flat, but it was flying right. I mean,

there's just something about the energy there, and you can tell that they trust him, and he's just committed to not having these record scratch moments that you see from some of these, you know, dudes who get elevated into more and more playing time because of, you know, the injuries to hero. And so, like, you get these guys who have been these contributors in throughout the regular season, and it's one thing to do it then, and it's another thing to, in the conference finals, still be showing up, you know what I mean? Yeah.

And it just feels like he's kind of an embodiment of the heat where you sort of keep expecting this to stop happening, right? You keep expecting the moment to get a little bit too big for him. You keep expecting, okay, like at a certain point, I mean, Tatum obviously played super well. It wasn't just Martin on him. But Martin's making him make tough shots. You know, he's making him work. He's doing all he can. I think you just keep expecting the Florida fallout or something, and it doesn't, right? like it they just it just keeps working and they just keep grinding so yeah thank you for the for the Caleb martin runway i just think he's like i just think he's a i think he's a special and he's a two-way player of yes it's both ends and i think i i think it's just a a special kind of intensity

there that is not he's he's not doing too much you don't watch him and think like this is too much Caleb martin right like there's there are the j-crowders of the world where you're watching them sometimes you're like This is too much. Well, their sense of themselves. Yeah, yeah. He doesn't seem to like, I don't know. If you're watching like the Lonnie Walker thing, let's compare it to the Lakers.

Lonnie jumping in there in spots, you're like, all right, this is great. Ordealo, some of their guys. And sort of role awareness or role stubbornness is something I always talk about with players. And with Martin, he does seem to have kind of a keen sense of where his spots are, what his moments are. Whereas like some of those guys, they're like, in. their minds, they're like, I'm a primary. Like, I'm a primary. I'm probably a max contract. A lot of players, I bet, if you ask them, their confidence. And it should be. Their confidence is, I can get buckets on anybody at any time. And I think confidence is important. But Martin seems to, you,

you run the risk with some of those players, even like a pool who ended up getting a bigger contract. But you run the risk with some of those second unit flamethrowers or guys who think that they're big time scores of them overstepping. And I think the point that you're making is solid here that like Martin who last night 11 for 16, three for seven from three and he gets, you know, four rebounds and he gets 25 points. You never felt like you never get the sense that he's sort of like causing sort of a rhythmic, you know, he never is eating into the fluidity of what Miami does. Totally. So one of the interesting themes from this game, Tyler, that I noticed was old guys getting attacked and it hurt me deeply to see guys in their mid-30s getting targeted out there that like

there was something, there was the McQueen is fading moment, the get out of here old man thing that Brunson did to Mike Conley last year. Conley luckily rebounded. It was a big win for us, us guys who were still around playing. Throughout this game, I mean, I felt like Bam had some,

I mean, Bam had an incredible game, you know, he goes seven for 17, he gets 17 rebounds, nine assists, 22 points, you know,

and just one turnover. He is plus 14 in this game. He had some success attacking. all of Boston's bigs, I felt like, you know, you know, Horford is an interesting matchup for somebody like Embed. I feel like those big positionally solid guys with good hands bothering Bede. But Bam is a little bit different the way he attacks Horford. And I thought he had some success in the middle of that Boston defense attacking those guys one-on-one.

But the passing was incredible. I just, is it weird to say that it was a quiet, incredible BAM performance on this night? I know it's not going to be the main headline, but he had a lot of success. I felt like against Boston's front court. No, I think you're right. I mean, I think part of the quietness of it was just maybe that it was just, there was a little lack of efficiency with the seven for 17, but he was just giving you so much with the playmaking,

like being a hub, finding people backdoor, and not just like easy passes that anybody could make, like diamond guys on the move, pocket passes, you know, these were passes that you don't often see from your center, you know, not named Nicola Yokish, right? Like it was, they were,

it was, or someone, yeah, it felt like Bam, continuing to show everyone how much he's developed offensively, how he has that one dribble pull up in the lane now. He,

I mean, you talk about having success against all Boston's bigs. He had a moment like, with a little over nine minutes left in the fourth, where he kind of isos on time lord in the midpost and gives him a little lift and goes bounce, bounce to the rim and just kind of little love tap with the shoulder and then kisses it in and looked almost very easy doing it.

You know what I mean? It was like stuff that you don't often see people do into Williams. He doesn't. I was going to say one thing on Bam, like with his own offense, I've noticed with his shot, it's not even so much a fade as it is like a smooth criminal lean, or I forget which video that is. You're exactly right. He doesn't.

It's almost like a, it's almost like a like a Carmelowish lean. He reclines. Yeah, he just kind of full body just, his body just kind of turns like a forward slash. Like it's a really interesting shot that goes in a lot. You're exactly right. He's had that little pull up now for a little bit. He can get to the floater. you know, sometimes, like there are some limitations

offensively, but whenever the Celtics are committed to, like they're clearly just going to guard him one-on-one, right? Like, they're not going to send a double. If they're giving him room like this to operate and given him some space to make stuff happen, he's got enough off the bounce that, you know, he can make you pay. And that's what he's been doing. I mean, you talk about the 17 rebounds, like,

15 of those are defensive. Like he's just huge for them cleaning up possessions, finishing possessions. You know, you talk about what the Knicks front line did, you know, Mitchell Robinson does to Cleveland. Bam comes in, basically does that to the Knicks front line, right? And then continues on now and has handled his business against the Celtic Biggs. And is just blowing their Biggs out of the water. or Time Lord's only got three rebounds.

I think Horford maybe has four. But like, you know, Tatum's leading the pack in that department for the Celtics. But like, it's just special effort from Bam on the boards. Like, I don't know if it was the biggest play of the game, but one of the biggest plays of the game there. I know the one you're going to say. I know the one you're going to say. Let me set this up. So this was a backbreaker sequence.

I want to talk about the flow between the two major sequences. is the third and the fourth here in a minute. But that's a good setup that like at about 251, Jalen, this is the chance where, you know, Miami's come back. I'm glad you want to talk about this. Boston has a chance to respond. So there's about like a minute and 40 second sequence here where Boston pooped their pants. Jalen goes to reverse the ball to Marcus smart.

Marcus just bobbles it for a turnover. It was a bizarre play. Six seconds later, we get it down here. And it's a left pick and roll for Jimmy to hunt Grant Williams. which we'll talk more about, and he hits a fade. So that was big. Coming back the other way, Marcus takes an early shot clock, wide open three-pointer that bricks.

Al Horford gets an off-ball, rebound foul. Struce goes the other end and hits a free throw. 2.12 to go. Another early clock three-point miss from Jalen Brown. Jimmy misses a shot. They come back. Tatum splits a double and drives into Jimmy for a charge. And then this was the big play that you were talking about.

A minute 10 to go. Jimmy drives baseline, misses a jump, or Bam somehow wrangles it and thunder dunks it. That felt like the like the shiv in the heart. Like that felt like the last like this is over moment for Miami to put them away. Yes, absolutely did. I mean, it, it, bam kind of swims around slash Chuck's Horford on that. And there was just too much physicality from the heat.

I mean, they were, I mean, Jalen Brown said it after the game. And sometimes I think that this sort of stuff is a little reductive and just basketball talk. But in this case, it did feel like it made sense that just the heat were the tougher team. You know what I mean? Like they just, they were just willing to claw a little bit more. And, yeah, I mean, Bam, I think he's got 23 double doubles in the playoffs now for his career. They said last night he passed Wade for number two on. Miami's like, you know, playoff leaderboard or whatever.

If you're going to be passing somebody on the heat leaderboard, that seems like a pretty good guy to pass. Should we talk about Grant and Jimmy? Let's do it. Let's do it. So I think the thing that set the stage for this is in the third quarter, I was going to set this up, the old guys getting attacked. In the third quarter, there was a sequence where Boston goes on a big run. I think it's from like 858 to like the end of the third.

And in that sequence, in that span of time, Boston runs 11, picking rolls and eight of those are for Tatum. They were like 1.273 points for possession. They were being productive there. That was attacking Kevin Love. Taitam got away with like an egregious palming call on like a split one time to score. But they're getting some, they're getting a lot of stuff going. Getting out on transition. There was a turnover where Brogden comes down and scores. Brogden kind of a quiet game. So that leads us to the beginning of the fourth quarter as we talked about and Boston is up 12. Seemingly in a great position. We were talking about they're in a position to either pull away or fold. And that leads to Joe

Missoula putting in. Now, we saw more Grant Williams than we'd seen lately in this game. Grant overall in this game gets 25 minutes, which seems like too much, which we'll go on to confirm that here in a minute. Yeah, seems like there needed to be way more Derek White than Grant. Yeah, so, and White was playing well early in the game. So Grant gets in. He immediately is on Jimmy. you know, Grant hits like a spot-up three. He's feeling good about himself, you know, says, makes a comment to, makes a comment to Jimmy and I have a screenshot in the doc of, Jimmy makes an incredible face. Jimmy makes a face.

What do you think's going through Jimmy's mind at this exact moment? He seems to be kind of happy that it's happening. He's like, really, really. It's a very MJ kind of like, thank you for doing what you're doing to me right now because I'm engaged. I think it was like, dude, really? For real? It's a surprise, but like, he seems like he's happy about it.

He's saying, oh, this is, no, not offended. It's like, oh, this is, this is going to be great. Yeah, I mean, just enter it into the pantheon of Jimmy Faces, right? Like, there's, you know, he's, he's putting together quite a meme package of reaction shots throughout his career. Probably first team all faces, I'd say, in the week. I'm trying to think of other guys. Shea makes some great faces in traffic.

Like a lot of his faces are kind of panic and despair. Jimmy is the king of the like knowing smile. I think we've talked about it before. He's the king of the like, I know I'm getting ready to murder you guys face. Like or or. He's got the sicko smile. Yeah. It's like a very.

There we go. It's a very. Oh, finally. Now the things are setting up for me to be able to show you just how to I can be kind of smile. Like you have not, like you think that things have, you know, been rough before. This is going to be me with no mercy or shame. I don't want to like pile on Williams, right?

Like somebody's got to go out there and try to be a little bit physical. I don't think I'd go jaw on at Jimmy, but I also don't think that him, I think that it's a NBA playoff game in the conference finals and Jimmy's going to try to take over and kill whoever's in front of him no matter what. Exactly. If I'm the rest of the Celtics, at first I'm like, yeah, all right, Grant, get into them. And after it stopped, after it got a little bit too out of hand, I'd be like, all right, man, like, by that point, it was too late.

It was too late by that point. I want to, I want to, you're kind of setting into my, like, setting up my feelings on this, that like, well, let's talk about what happened first. So, so, you know, Jimmy, Jimmy comes back in. It's, you know, about seven half minutes in the fourth in Boston. is up six. Immediately he goes to the right block and tries to score on him. Yeah. And then 6207, he isos him again, goes into the lane, gets fouled, 9690 Boston. Go ahead. Jump in. Yeah. Well, but wait, is that, I'm trying to remember at what's the time stamp for when,

because right after Grant Williams is three, right? That's whenever they come, they come right down and Butler, I soes them and then gets an end one and then they go forehead to forehead, right? Yes, yes. And that's when it's clear. that this is this is not good. So, so Grant, basically they go back and forth. Grant, but my favorite play of the game is, well, they immediately, they switched Grant after it's obviously not going well. Wisely is like, okay, we've really pissed Jimmy off.

Not that Jimmy was going to play well in any other situation, but they actually switch him off of him, but my favorite play of the game came with 244 left in the game when Jimmy comes down in transition and he has Marcus smart on him. So you were just thinking, okay, well, Mark a smart great defender. Obviously one defensive player of the year at one point. Yeah. So Jimmy looks and intentionally goes out of his way to get Grant in a screen. So to get him in a switch, which I think, you know, if the opponent is trying to reset to the thing that you had game plan to do,

if they go out of their way to be like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want to do what you were trying to do a minute ago. Not a good sign. So, and he goes, you know, gets him, drives baseline. and nails a fade away, and that's when Miami takes the lead 102 to 100. My feeling on it, and I kind of feel the way you were talking about it makes me think that you're probably going to agree with this. I have been on record as, like, Grant's, and in this game, Kyle Lowry and Grant being

annoying on the same floor, I'm surprised it didn't like rip a hole in the space-time fabric and, you know, create a black hole. But I don't, you know, Grant has annoyed me over the years with some of the way, some of the his tactics. But in this game, I'm not that mad at it. I don't like, you know,

I know you made Jimmy mad. I don't know that the outcome would have been different any other way. You got his attention and he went wild in this game. But what are you doing Celtics? You know what I mean? Like the overall, the Celtics have like a kind of a passive. There are a lot of good guys.

Marcus Smart's pretty dogged. But they need that like, this is sort of felt like what Draymond did to them in last year's finals a little bit, right? Like they're getting big boyed by Jimmy and Graham. Grant comes in there and tries to stand up to him. I don't really fault Grant for it. It's like, what are the other guys doing? You know, they're talking about playoff Jimmy.

I'm just, aren't you offended Boston? Like, aren't you going to step to him? Or you're just going to try to hope he doesn't get focused on you and blow you away? I don't fault Grant that much for it. Do you? I definitely don't fault him for coming out and being like, hey, we're going to be physical. You're going to feel me. I'm going to lean on you.

like, I'm going to make you work. It's not going to be as easy as it's been the other. Like, I don't fault him for that. He has to be that. That's, I'm sure, what the coaches told him to go be. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's, if he's going to function in a game like that, he's got to be an agitator to the nth degree,

and he has to sell out on that. my one thing is that it's one thing for butler to take over and dominate down the stretch and make you look small. It's another thing for him to do that after you went up to the fence that the big dog was standing behind and started. yapping a bunch talking about like, yeah, I wish you would. I wish you would. It's a little bit, it's a little bit more demoralizing if you come out with the, yeah, we're here, yeah, we're here, you know, and then you like you say, you get switched off. And then he's like you say, you get switched off. And then he's like, no, you wanted this. You asked for this. Come over here. come over here and get what you wanted.

I'm what you wanted. Come over here and get what you want. It's just, it's awesome. But like, you know, I'm with you that he probably doesn't deserve the, like, all the shit that he's getting. I mean, like, I'm not an NBA coach and I don't like criticizing coaches because I'm not smart enough to be one. And I am sure that they thought about whatever idea. I have, right, and decided, hey, no, that's not a good idea. Well, Jimmy passes out of doubles. That's the big one. That's the big one. You know,

you look at the difference between the way their stars are being played. And I told you that, like, throughout this game, you know, Tatum's involvement in the fourth is another storyline for this. And throughout this game, Miami was giving him like this. They were showing him too, but they weren't hard, you know, they weren't blitzing him in a way where they were at an advantage. And I guess that's sort of the way, the way you're leaning can affect the way you get attacked, right? Like close out. If you're selling out, you know, going after the guy's catching the ball, you're vulnerable, which we saw Miami do that to Boston throughout this game. But Miami was hanging back and kind of showing him too with that trap. You know, Boston chooses not, I assume this is where

you were going with this. Like, you know, coaches maybe trying something different with Jimmy. It does seem like they need to try something different, but Jimmy also passes really well and you've got multiple shooters on the floor. They're probably just going to have to be clever maybe about the way they bring the double, where they bring it, and from what angle they bring it. But they need to do something differently because Jimmy hunting these, like, a lot of the guys within their lineup are smaller. And Grant supposedly is one of their best positional defenders. Jimmy's attacking everybody in scoring. You need to do something different, I would think.

Yeah. I mean, I think that part of it is like, like I hear you, he passes well out of doubles. The shots that he's getting whenever you're just letting him take his time. I mean, he's so patient down there. He likes the mud, obviously, and always has. but like he's really taking his time and just body and people down into the lane, giving them those lifts, trying to get into their body and then, you know, hit the shot. It is an every time thing.

And they're not able to keep him from getting to his spot. And if it's me, if the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, what they were doing was insane. And once he's going, you have to change. Like I heard, you know, whatever Missoula said after the game about like, well, we, you know, the real problem was that the role players, you know, we can't let them get going. And it's like, well, all right, well, but that wasn't really the question. The question was, why didn't you, you know, like, I get that's, you know, that's why you don't

double him to start the game or, you know, early on in the game, right? You're trying to make sure that Duncan Robinson doesn't get loose, Strus doesn't get loose, whatever. There's a lot to account for. I understand the thinking behind it. I think it's once you get into the fourth and, A, that strategy has not worked. And it has been, it is sucked so bad for you that none of what you wanted to accomplish was accomplished. The role players are going off and Jimmy's going off, right?

Like it's the worst of both worlds for you. I still think at that point, I'm doing whatever I can to get the ball out of Godzilla's hands there. Right? Like it just doesn't, I'm not, it's just got to be anybody but him there, I think, right? Like what's more likely to regress the role players are Jimmy? You know, you would assume it's going to be the role players. And they're kind of trying to, I don't know, maybe it's the absence of leaning one way, just playing them straight up.

But, yeah, like you said, seven isolations in the fourth quarter alone for Jimmy, and he was just eating them alive. What do you think of that, like, that soft double that they were kind of showing Tatum where they're like, we're going to be up here enough for you to feel like you've got to get rid of it. But it made like the scramble back much easier, right? Like they weren't coming up so high that, that, you know, Bam couldn't get back or whoever it was couldn't get back. Like, it was interesting to see that be so effective because do you think Tatum's just going to start rising up right there? Like, okay, you're going to give me all this space. Like, I'm just going to start letting it go.

I mean, they were chucking too much as it was. I mean, neither him or Brown hit a single field goal in the fourth. It's just a disaster of a fourth for them. But like, what did you, what do you think the strategy is there? I think one of the big things that might get overlooked here is that whenever they're doing that soft double, like I said, like you said, they're not on their heels or their toes. They're kind of sitting where they want to be and able to react to the play. And another thing about this is Tatum is putting air under the ball when he's making these

passes. I was noticing this. That like, and when something to look at when players, big playmakers, the best ones, they don't do that. You know, they put more zip on it. You know, Luca's a master at that. LeBron's a master at that. Yokic is too.

You know, he repeatedly was putting air under these passes, which gives time. It gives Miami time to react and get to the scene of the crime and make them make tough plays. Make Robert Williams make a tough play. You know, it allows, it just allows your defense to react and recover. Jimmy in general is just a weird player. Like I was talking with you about like, as opposed to Tatum, they play a little differently. You know, Tatum plays more upright.

and kind of twitchy quick, tries to cook you with his moves. Jimmy is like really one of the foremost, I think, like pace ball handlers at his size, like in the world. Like he's very deliberate. You never see him like just dribbling into like bad situations. It doesn't happen that much. He sets himself up, I think, really well and plays with a lot of, you know, I've talked about this four bend. Like he just gets really low with his dribble. It kind of has that inevitability feeling, right, where like he's just chiseling his way to his spots.

And when you're single covering him, it's just tough. He beats you up and then he makes you make a lot of decisions in a row. And even if you're somebody who has been told, watch the lift, watch the lift, watch the lift, which I'm sure is near the top of every, you know, Butler scouting report, like don't bite, don't bite on this, you know, because he'll do it anywhere, right? He'll do it at the elbow. and he'll do it, you know, at the rim. He's still going to do it and he's going to give you a lift.

And I think probably the footwork's pretty underrated for him. Like, you know, he's not Hakeem down there. But he's, he's shifty and you're not going to be able to push him off of his spot. And he's pretty slippery with the spins. and the pivots, and he's great using the glass. Like, I think the most surprising thing about him is, like, he doesn't, you know, he's, he's really not using his left all that much. He's not trying to finish with his left.

If he's driving left, he's spinning back to, like, he's coming back, spinning over that left shoulder. He's driving, he's coming back to that right hand, and he's, you know, going to try to finish either off the glass or, you know, up over the top. SVG, I think, was just estimating last night, but he was like, you know, 95% of the time he wants to go right. And there's something kind of hypnotic about those sorts of players that do have these, it's like Zion going.

It's like Zion, right? Like, it's like, or Hardin. Like, you know they're wanting to go this one specific way. And you know they're devastating when they do. but they've got enough, I mean, they've got enough shake. And then those two dudes, and same thing with Jimmy, right? Like the shoulders, they just need to get like a little bit past you and that's it, right? And you're done.

Yeah. I mean, one of the most impressive things about Jimmy's game last night is just the three free throws. You know, like I think he gets, he catches deserved flack for hunting for fouls too much sometimes and dragging some games into the muck a little bit and just hunting for calls sometimes. But that wasn't what last night was. I mean, it was three free throws and it was just like methodical. We've cleared the floor out to the other side with shooters and then one behemoth who's going to go like hell after every single rebound. And good luck.

And they were able to get him all that space on one side of the floor. I mean, that's a tall task for Grant Williams, a good defender, right? Like, Brogden, good defender. White caught Butler a couple times, you know, going to the rim, blocked him going to the rim and kept it in bounds a couple of times, had some good plays on him. Like, obviously, Brown, Tadden, these are capable dudes. But Jimmy was in a stubborn mood last night.

And he wasn't going to stop. And unless that double was going to come, like, when he gets to the, point that he was in in the fourth when they're on that run and you can tell that he is like feeling himself to the point that he's about to burst you know what i mean it's like all bets are off and now going back to miami you just it not that the celtics can't go win a couple there like it's totally possible right like but i don't know how you're not very worried if you're a boston fan yeah yeah So that's kind of where I will wrap up with is like our confidence level. If you had to say, you know, very high, high, lukewarm, very pessimistic, are you, how are you feeling about Boston's chances here?

It seems, I mean, it seems like they have some waste and some leakage that they can shore up, you know, if they can cut down the beating themselves stuff. I think straight up they can beat Miami, but it seems like they're going to have to, that's one of the big things for me. they better stop turning the ball over and I mean Tatum and Brown need to show up when it counts. I mean, I don't want to sound like Stephen A. But you're not going to win a ton of games in the Eastern Commerce Finals if your two best players don't make a field goal in the fourth. You know what I mean?

It's just not like that's there's and I get that they're trying to force the ball out of Tatum's hands there and that he was getting to the free throw line sometimes. But I would be pessimistic. if I was a Celtic fan to answer your question. Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of feeling the same way. It's not over, obviously. I think these two teams have a history,

but I definitely think they're going to have to shore some of that stuff up. It's going to be interesting to see, Tyler. It was good to see you on this Zoom call. I know, I wish you had stuck with the tan hat so we could be two, two dads and tan hats to white guys in tan hats. I like that bit. I think that's a solid bit. You know, I'll break the tan out next.

I'll break the 10 out next week. Yeah, yeah. For you. All righty, thanks to Jade Whaley for producing this podcast. And listen as we continue with our like rapid NBA playoff reactions. We're going to continue to have them as long as the playoffs are going. And we're going to have draft stuff ramping up here soon as well. So everything you could possibly want in this life you can get on there.

So make sure and make sure and check all that stuff out, Tyler. Until next time, good to see you, buddy. Good to see you.