The Ringer NBA Show - It’s Not Too Soon to Say … | Group Chat

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos share a handful of early season declarations that they think will be season-long trends. They talk about the Bucks (4:30), Thunder (21:30), Clippers (32:00), and more. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's happening? It's Todd McShay and I'm back with a new home and a new show at the Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts. During the week, we'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the college football playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday's slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights

with my immediate reaction to the full day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and get ready for the McShay show on the ringer, Spotify, and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me, Rob Mahoney, and Big Was, who went to Spotify HQ and came back just decked out in the branding. That's right. That's right. I was at the office on Thursday.

The big man, Daniel Eck, gave a State of the Union speech. Took questions for 45 minutes, which was phenomenal. Phenomenal. Yeah, phenomenal. Just the candor, I would say was phenomenal. Talk about the future of the company, you know, where the company's been, where we're going, the profitability, blah, blah, blah. And most importantly for me, bagels and merch were on deck. And so I had a great time.

Me, Van, and Bill did a show for Bill's show. Just a great, great day at Spotify HQ, man. Was, what's your take on the future of the company? It's never been brighter. as the stock price would indicate, my boy. Come on now. I know y'all paying attention to that stock. Did you get the hat signed before you left?

I did not get the hat sign. That would have been a ball of move. I could have at least got Gustav to sign it. I know that. Rob, no merch for you. No. Just raw dogging it on his pod. You know, I didn't go get the swag bag.

I wasn't there for the talk. So I don't get the bagels. I don't get the merch. I don't get the experience. was clearly got enriching himself instilling a sense of positivity into our near-term future. Our Q4, our Q1 projections. Look, I would have loved to hear more about it, but I just, I didn't, I didn't have it like that.

I wasn't so lucky. There are perks to living in L.A., believe it or not, even though Justin fled and ran his ass up to Portland, it's still pretty nice to be here. Yeah, now I got to winterize my house. Things are tough up here. But we're persevering. I'm wearing a sweater in winter. this is how it should be.

This guy has to put foam installation into his crib, bro. Those little cups over the spigots. I got to figure that out too. Yeah, I'm not looking forward to the January pod where you forgot to let your faucets drip and everything has exploded in your house. It's not going to be great, but we will be here for you when it does happen, Justin. That's like 95% going to happen because I'm like on Reddit yesterday, just trying to figure this out probably three weeks after I should have figured it out.

So pray for me, pray for my pipes, I guess. In January, he's just going to be Leo from the Revenant, y'all. That's going to be fairier. Me and my dog living in a bear. Yeah. That's it. Well, we're going to have a typical experience here in group chat. Maybe not the same one that our friend Waz did.

We're going potluck style based on things that have happened over the course of, what, a month of play at this point? Things that we could finally say it's not too soon to say X, right? we're just making declarations based on what we're. Because I also feel like this is the time of the year where it's like we've seen enough. This is partly where things we think are too early to say

actually end up bearing out over the course of the regular season. I think first and foremost, we got to talk about the bucks. Who, as we record this, four and nine in the Eastern Conference, lose a heartbreaker in Charlotte to the Hornets because Lamello tripped on his foot.

Not Yannis's fault per se, but I think it was indicative, Rob, of of where the bucks are right now, I would say, it's not too soon to say the bucks are fucking cooked this season. So let's qualify cooked. What do you mean by cooked? Well, so I think you could look at the Eastern Conference, realize there are maybe two good teams and say,

oh, if the bucks just have one or two good weeks, they're right back in this mix. I think that's, if not possible, then maybe even likely. I think the problem is even the best version of the bucks is a flawed one. I think they're hoping to get to a ceiling where we, would still have the typical questions we have about the bucks, even if Chris Middleton comes back, which I haven't seen them for a very long time.

Dames not playing as well. I look around this team and I just see everybody from the 2021 finals run plus guys who were relevant in 2021 like Tori and Prince, the Lahnwright. It just seems like they're overmatched at this point. And even as good as Janus has been, Rob, like, I don't know if they have it to compete on the highest levels in the East. Yeah, they have lost three other last five games. We should say three of the those without dame. Losing three of their last five is like the high watermark for their season. They won two and as you said, they almost beat the hornets.

Like that's as good as it's been for the Milwaukee Bucks. That is awful. If I could put one glimmer of hope on the horizon, just one twinkling star off in the distance. I went back and look, the Bucks are four and nine right now, not where anyone in Milwaukee wants to be. I went back and looked at other teams that started four or nine or worse to see how they ended up. How far could the Bucks potentially climb? As recently as last season, the Bulls, the Mighty Bulls made the play in with 39 wins after a four and nine start. Maybe the Bucks,

I think I still fully believe they could be a play in team. Can they be a playoff team? We'll see. That's pretty sad in and of itself. It is very sad. And I think if you look, you know, a couple years back at the other examples that are kind of similar, the most resonant one is the Lakers in 23. Slow start in 2022, three and ten to start the season. They make the Western Conference finals. They had a dramatic shake above their roster. And this is where the Bucks conversation kind of comes to a head because they do not have a lot of resources to trade. They do not have a lot of moves they can potentially make to really shake things up.

But if they did, it probably would look a lot like that Lakers team in the sense that you're getting in somebody who's a bit of a question mark, a DeAngelo Russell type player and shedding, you know, excise. some of the pieces of the roster that aren't working and you hope that the shakeup itself in addition to the fact that Janus is awesome in addition to the fact that, you know, Middleton and Dane will hopefully be healthy at that point in the season, that all of that together can get you to somewhere of relevance. I'm just not sure they have all that in them, Waz.

I'm not sure they have it in them to hit like every single domino they need to hit to be an actually relevant Eastern Conference team. Yeah, I think their problem is, you know, one that a lot of people pointed out is how thin they are after their top, you know, four players. Like, it just completely falls off a cliff. And then, you know, injuries just exacerbate that, obviously.

Like, that's the sort of downside of being top heavy. The second one or two, God forbid, in this case, with Dame and Chris Middleton, go down. They're completely cooked. They just don't have any, like, credible depth whatsoever. And Middleton is, like, his... His injury passed is just insanely checkered and bad, especially in the recent years. And, you know, if Dane goes out with any, you know, at any point in time and, you know, Janus is gone.

Like, if he misses some games, as hard as he be going, like, it completely falls apart. And just the idea that it's like, yo, we've gone from, you know, we think these guys, or I at least thought they were going to compete in the Eastern Conference, the upper echelons, to like, oh, maybe they'll get. a playing spot. Like, that's a complete and utter disaster. And you wonder what the move could even be. Like, all right, cool, fire Doc Rivers.

All right. What's that really going to do? It has to be a personnel-based move, right? You know, maybe they explore the market for Dane. Maybe they explore the market for Middleton. Or, God forbid, if you're a Milwaukee Bucks fan, they explore the market for Yannis and just completely say, yo, we're punting completely on this idea of this team around this dude,

despite the extension, and they completely blow it up. I think it's a little early to be trying to do that. But I just don't know where the solves come outside from like playing better. How about that adjustment? Play way better. And hopefully that happens when all of their guys come back. I'm not really entertaining the Janus idea until he gives me a request in writing that he would like to be moved. Like anything,

Like anything softer than that, like I am not, I'm just not doing it. Yeah, no, no, no. First of all, if I'm management, like, I'm moving Janice. I want to move on from Janus. I'm not listening to Janus talking about wanting to move on. Like, you're claiming the agency for yourself. You want to decide. You want to grasp control of your own life was.

Yeah, bro. You got five years left on your deal. Sit tight, kid. You can't hold out for five years. Sorry. And so, like, yeah, like, I'm not doing that unless it's management. Just like, look, let's do something different. Maybe there's an attractive young player, you know, an attractive project, an attractive package or whatever.

But in terms of blowing this thing, I think there's so much, it's such a long-ass season. You know, it's just the way they've stumbled out the gate. Some of these losses, like, you know, have been, like, close losses to some good-ass teams, too. Yeah. You know. So I don't think it's time to hit the panic. button quite yet, but like any idea that this team was going to be at the upper reaches of the Eastern Conference, I think that's, we can tuck that to the side. Yeah, listen, they're a top four

team and their top four players just don't play together. And beyond that, I do think you have to start to wonder, even when Middleton is back, what is he going to give us defensively? Because they're kind of counting on him to be the primary stopper defensively. And I can't imagine a guy coming off of, what was it, two ankle surgeries, like is going to be able to do that. I also am starting to worry that Brooke Lopez starting to show his age. And so I think they need to do something, but I would probably look to the fringes at this point in order to try to augment and see if you can keep the Damianas to core together because once you start breaking that apart, I think the everything kind of falls apart from there. It's just like a slippery slope when you're just

like completely ripping apart the two stars you have. I think Lopez would have trade value, even though he hasn't shot particularly well this season, even though he has looked a little bit slower than he already has looked, but he's pretty damn slow to begin with. And so is there something you could do there to just get an injection of like just more quality players. I think their issue at this point is just like not having the depth. And I will say this. I think the bucks by and large have done an amazing job in order to get that one title. Right.

But over time, they have kind of lost a lot of the fringe trades. You know, the million seconds for Nicola Meritichita. The searcher Baca for Dante Diva. Jay Crowder. Jay Crowder, not really landing a single draft pick in like, I can't remember the last guy, maybe it was Conantin, those sorts of things have compounded to the point where it's like, if they just had two guys like that just capable of playing and like being rotation guys, I think they'd be in a better spot right now. And so I think that's their problem and that's

the one that they need to solve. They do want to be taken seriously in this East mix. Yeah, usually you make yourself a contender with the big swings and you stay a contender with all of those marginal moves. And they just haven't had the staying power. And when you watch them now, granted, without Middleton, without Dame for some of these games, there's just like no discernible flow to their offense at all, even as their defense has gotten a little bit better from the disaster at the start of the season. They get desperate.

Things clam up. Defense is react. The ball stops moving. Yana starts settling for things. Everything gets really, really sludgy, really, really quickly. And look, I will be the first person at the front of the line to tell you how much things change when Chris Middleton is on the floor and when this team is healthy. and when their actual four best players are on the court together.

That's a huge and meaningful thing. But as we've been dancing around, not only can you not count on Chris Middleton to be your go-to defensive stopper at, you know, I think he's 32, but he is maybe the NBA's oldest 32-year-olds. And I say that as maybe the world's oldest 35-year-old. Like, I get it. Yeah.

But not only can he not be that, but when he does come back, they're going to need to ease him in. He's going to need to play limited minutes. He's going to probably not play back-to-backs. he's going to have to be graduated into the sort of role they ultimately need him to play. And that means a lot of these role players who just have not been good enough are still going to have to play a lot for the majority of this season, at least until he's kind of back fully

upright. And while, look, Andre Jackson, A.J. Green, like finding more minutes for those guys, I think has been a net positive. It's just been a net positive that hasn't mattered whatsoever. And that's where the bucks are. It's like the marginal gains right now are not enough. They need something pretty dramatic to happen if they're going to actually be. contending for anything because, yeah, otherwise, their prospects look like maybe a fifth or

sixth place finish in the east, like guaranteed playoff spot, but that's about it. Yeah, and, you know, I saw Ryan talk about it on his show where people are second-guessing the dame deal, and I will say this again, like the bucks, shortcomings in the postseason were consistent. They stunk it up in the half court on offense. They wanted to goose that situation. So they made a change. Janice was begging for it. In the moment, it made all the sense. Like, it was like four or five years straight of the same problems arising on offense in the postseason.

So they tried to do something differently. Yes, Drew Holiday has been great in Boston. He's carrying about a quarter of the burden offensively, specifically, that he did in Milwaukee. He's just asked to do way less in Boston. Like, that's just the freaking God on his truth. So to say like, well, Drew is driving in Boston and the bucks traded him away. It's like, bro, he's not asked to do the same thing. So I get people second guessing.

It's not like something completely stupid. I just think they did the right thing to try to do something instead of being like, no, we're just going to be the same bucks every single year no matter what. Yeah. So let's say that Damien Lillard murdered your entire family in cold blood was. Would you at that point criticize him or would you go on? a monologue about premeditation versus crimes of passion.

I mean, I would criticize Dame Lillard where it's warranted, right? Like, I think he's been, you know, a bad defensive player. I don't think anybody's surprised that Dame hasn't been good on defense. I would say that he hasn't been optimized as an offensive player, which is what he was brought in to do. Like, if y'all would rather watch Janus dribble the ball, take pull-ups, pull-up threes, and, you know, do what he does. And again, it works against bad teams.

Like, Jan is just being a battering ram and just out-physicaling people. It works against the bad defenses. Against the best teams, it doesn't work. And that's why they try to do something different. I don't think Dame's been perfect. But, like, if y'all think Dame is why this thing isn't working, then, you know, we just agree to disagree there.

I'm kind of with you in the sense that Dame has not been bad enough to be the problem. The problem is, like, the balance. of the roster is off. And some of that is Dame related, right? Like the tradeoffs from Drew to Dame, as far as what that does for the overall defense, I don't think the bucks properly appreciated at the time.

Like, the value of having Drew navigate screens with Brooke and Janice and help was part of what made that team so special. You take away Drew, you replace him with, to be honest, like one of the worst high minute perimeter defenders in the league in Damien Lillard. Now everything changes dramatically. And like Janus and Brooke are still really good rim protectors.

But now there's just more pure blowbys. There's more clean avenues to the rim. More is put on them in a way where it really shouldn't be if you're going to have an overall stable balance team. And so, yeah, what Dame can't do creates all sorts of problems. Has he played terribly on offense? No, I think he's mostly been fine, if not exactly the guy you want him to be.

It's crazy watching Janus in transition for it. And then to think of a team being like, let's keep Janus in the half court. You know, like that is probably one of his best attributes. And while I know you could do both, it's not an either-or proposition, to ask him to do more of the latter just seems kind of just not accepting where your advantages lied with the team. And it's almost like they wanted to be a different team. And how do you do that with the right pieces around those guys in order to make it fit? They never have had the right pieces to do so.

And so for a lot of reasons, like I think to a certain extent, this is the life cycle of a championship contender, especially one in a small. market where things just don't have the same advantages to replenish the star power that they need. On the other hand, like, that kind of let this slip away because there probably was a second life to like a Yanis title contending team. It just doesn't seem like they're going to reach that. And ultimately, I think they probably will have to trade him, whether it will be this offseason two years from around. I have no idea. But it does feel like the writing is on the wall at this point. It might be too soon to say that. I want to give them, I agree it's not looking good. I agree that their options are limited. I want to see what this looks like.

when their best players are actually on the floor together. And in particular, I want to see it because Janus himself, like I want to hammer this because we talk a lot about Bucks Malays and Bucks Disappointment and how bad they've been to start the season. Janus is playing like one of the best players in the world even still. And at the moment, he's putting up 32, 12, and 6, leading the league in scoring while also having one of the most efficient seasons of his career. Like, he has brought it.

He is everything that you want Janus to be. He just doesn't have the supporting cast to justify that. and I get why that would eventually push him out the door, and maybe it will. But I don't know that I'm saying the writing is totally on the wall yet. Crazier things have happened than all of a sudden a contender turning things around, or even some superstars being willing to accept certain, certain like fallow periods of a career to hang with a team

or to stay in a circumstance that may be suboptimal. Like, yes, there are better winning situations today for Janus Anta-Tacombo than playing for the Milwaukee Bucks. Is that going to push him out the door? I wouldn't blame him if it did. but I don't know that I'm rushing to that conclusion just yet. And I think people got to have a healthy appreciation for the fact that in 2024, individual brilliance just is not enough.

I just read the thing that Zach Cram did for us about Yokic having the best 10-game stretch of his career. The Denver Nuggets went 7 and 3. two of those games was in overtime, another one of those games, another three of them were like single possession wins, meaning they could have been three and seven during the best 10 game stretch of one of the probably going down as the 15 greatest all-time NBA players of his career. So think about that. Like the best stretch of one of the best players' careers could have easily ended

in a three and seven stretch. Like being individually great is just not enough in today's NBA. Like there was a time where that could matter. You know, when the guys were playing against plumbers and mechanics, right? Like, that could possibly matter. But in 2024, you have to have more collectively to actually win on a consistent basis. Just imagine if Janus had Tari Easton and amend Thompson around him. Oh, my God.

They take two threes a game. but would anybody score a single point? I'm literally sweating as you say this. Just like, can't handle it. The rockets are circling. We'll see ultimately, I do think they have a big trade in them.

And I think the season has proven on both sides of the thing that like both teams probably need what the other one has. But like, you know, something that I'll be dreaming about as I go to bed at night these days. In a bear, apparently. Yeah.

Rob, do you want to go with one of yours? I would love to. We talk all the time about, the number of teams that try to go small by using players who don't actually give you the benefits of going small, which is to say most often non-shooters, right? You throw a bunch of wings out,

but none of them can really shoot all of a sudden. You have the same offensive problems, but everyone is 6-9. Great. The Oklahoma City Thunder are kind of reinventing small ball right in front of our faces. And I say that because they're really not shooting a ton of threes. They're really not shooting them all that well.

Even like Isaiah Joe is a knockdown shooter, having the worst shooting season from three of his Thunder career. And other than that, it's like J-Dub and Lou Dord are knocking down. But SGA is at 32% from three, even in this sort of exploratory season from him. Alex Crusoe, 22% from three. Kaysen Wallace, 25% from three. Kenridge Williams, who turned out to be a main character of the game against Dallas on Sunday, 25% from three. These are the guys who are like allowing them to play small without Chet Holmgren, without Isaiah

Hartnstein. A bunch of them cannot shoot. And guess what? It is not meant a damn thing because they look like a dominant defensive outfit. And I think they're kind of moving the margins of where small ball teams can win right now. Yeah. Just the idea that Lou Dort is Plank Center at times for this team is kind of crazy. But, you know, all of it works because you have not one but two dribble penetrators, man. And defenses like even if Isaiah Joe is not hitting, they have to respect what he's doing on the perimeter. Definitely. And, you know, the fact that you got two guys on the ball who can just, they're going

to compromise a defense and puncture and make it bend and create different openings and second side opportunities and, you know, that stuff just has a cascading effect on even stuff like offensive rebounds when you want that to be the case. And so, yeah, man, it's nice to spread the floor. But, you know, for that to really truly matter, people have to be able to get to. to the basket and I don't think anybody's doing that better than Shea Gilgis Alexander at the moment, man. And that's why that thing is able to work.

And I like the creativity of Dagnal to like try this stuff. You know, it's one thing to have a young team and feel like you're always discovering things. But you know, a lot of times that's just an individual roles, right? Like, or, you know, we're gonna try Dort at the four. We're gonna try this, but like to be just playing just in a way more experimental way. I think it takes some stones for a coach coming into a season where there's legitimate expectations. Like, people think they're going to the finals this year. And Dagnol not being,

you know, scared to try different stuff. I think that's admirable, man. Yeah, I think the advantage of having depth is you have a lot of guys who can masquerade as small ball centers within that. And they don't have a center currently playing right now. Let's be clear. But a lot of their six, seven and smaller guys are thicker. And so they do have like the, the Chuck Hayes types. I'm thinking of Dylan Jones specifically, where he's basically like a six, six five small forward, but he's built like a big old center. And so they do have the stoutness in order to provide something. You saw in the Dallas game, they got crushed on the boards. And I think that like a team with a strength at center like Dallas is going to beat them. But they're also so good at swarming and swiping.

defensively that it really, they don't lose much because I saw this in Portland when Donovan Klingan was out there. Donovan Klingan who took like pelts from Zion Williamson like it was nothing. He just kind of just like bounced off of him. But when they put three guys all swiping at him, like remember in Game of Thrones where they had that big old like giant?

No, there was another guy. It was like a, it wasn't an end. That's Lord of the Rings. But he was one of the woodland people, but he was a giant. And then one of this. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And then the skeletons all jumped on him. That's like the thunder. It's just like just stab it at him everywhere. It's just like so many swipes all over the place. And so they're so good at that. Yes. Because they can cover so much ground. I talked about this in the pod. We did with Goldsbury. It's just like it seems like they can get anywhere they want on the floor because those guys can move so well and their hands are so good and they're so good at processing. And so I think you're right, Rob. They are taking as a team a lot of threes. But they aren't making a lot of them. And it's they're going small to help their.

defense in a lot of ways, which is completely against what you would assume. I want a recurring segment of this podcast where Justin tries to explain various fantasy properties, just like a scene he saw in the two towers and just like try to remind us of what happened in it. I would love that. We could do that. Trust me. I like the skeletons comp, though.

I like the skeletons jumping on a giant because it really does feel that way. Whites? Were they? I think there were some whites involved. Yeah. Good pull. Definitely some whites in that show. Yeah.

certainly so yeah I think the turnover margin is really kind of like the weapon of choice here and we talk about small ball teams as you alluded to JV giving up so much on the glass and that is true

that's always going to be a liability when you're playing you know J-dub or Lou Dort as your five that's going to be a thing that happens those guys will claw for those boards though and I thought it was telling that even in a Dallas game where they were getting kind of messed around on the glass when it came down to make

like the game like the finishing push Lou Dorts like pulling that thing away from Derek lively and crunch time to give them one crack at a game tying shot or a game winning shot. Those situations are huge. But how you get there and how you win these games and how you win these stretches playing small

the way the Thunder are playing small, it's like the mathematical edge has shifted for them from the like threes versus twos thing that made warrior small ball so good. And it's more just like making hay in the possession game. It is forcing a shit ton of turnovers and also to tie this together where you were saying was about like,

like Shea and Jada being such good creators with the ball, playing smart, clean offense all the time. And the other guys making very easy reads and decisions where they're not trying to do too much. And then you look at the final margin. It's like the thunder never turn over the ball when they play small like this. They are like, it's a feeding frenzy.

Anytime any big on the other side ends up with it in the post. They're creating all kinds of turnovers. Like I'm just amazed at how much they've been able to gain defensively playing this way. And clearly, yes, If you have Chet Holmgren healthy, you play Shet Holmgren. If you have Isaiah Hardinstein, you play him. But this is a look they need to keep in their back pocket

because it is ferocious and it's hard to play against. And as far as like changes of pace go, putting Alex Caruso on a five and getting away with it is a hell of a change of pace. Yeah, and I think it speaks to just being connected on the defense, man. We talk about this all the time. Like when the teams are just like guys are playing individually where it's like, all right, I have this assignment.

And it's just based on, all right, I'm stopping the ball and I don't do anything else. And I'm not reactive to what my other five guys are doing. And we're just like five individuals on five different islands. That's not how functional defenses work. And definitely not how the very best defenses work. And, you know, just the idea that these guys can shape shift that way. And they know what matchups to attack defensively, right?

Where like a Kling, yeah, he's bigger than us. But that man should not be putting the ball on a, floor against us. There's no way he can make the reeds fast enough. There's no way he's like, you know, strong enough with the ball to be confident in every single, you know, spot that he might be on the floor, like his spatial recognition. There's no way he's good at all of that shit already as a rookie. And we know we can attack him, right? Like that stuff, man, that's like legitimately coaching. They're getting coached up. Like, these aren't things that you just do instinctively. And so

shout to their whole project over there, man. Like, they are hyper-competent, super-talented, and they got the young guys who, like, you know, can do this on a motor basis where, like, these guys don't get as tired as these more veteran-laden teams tend to.

They're one of these teams that actually does have, like, a developmental program. It is not just like guys happen to get better when they play for the Thunder. It's real. It's concentrated. It's a focus of that entire organization. You know, we came into the season, looking at J-dub in particular as a potential most improved candidate. I think he's still in the mix for that.

With the way he's playing and the way he's guarding fives, I wouldn't be surprised if we're talking about him for an all-defense spot by the end of this year. Like he's already a very good perimeter defender. And this is, like, again, a crazy thing to say on a team that has Lou Doord and has Alex Caruso, has Chad Holmgren, like these are great defenders. But in the end, maybe it's going to be J-dub when we look out, when we zoom out on this Thunder season and see who was kind of holding this thing. together until everyone got healthy.

It may be a Jalen Williams kind of season. So the one non-center who makes first team all defense will actually be a center? Maybe so. So I have a little bit of a quiz note for you guys here. So Shea, Dorr, Wallace, Joe, and J-dub, basically their best small ball lineup is a 32.8 net rating in 41 minutes. That is the third best lineup in the NBA with 40 or more minutes. can you name the other two who are better?

The two best lineups in the NBA right now. 40 or more minutes is a pretty slim threshold. So I feel like it's not a starting group. Is this a Karis-Levert Cleveland lineup? No, that's a great guess. One is the starting lineup, one is the starting lineup plus a bench guy. Okay. The Lavert plus minus this season has been ridiculous.

I don't quite have a grasp of what's going on there, but I want to figure it out. He's back? He's fully, he's back and better than ever. Who would it be? Would we give it to you? Yeah, hit us with it. All right. Number one is the King's starting lineup.

Yeah. 39.3, which we have to revisit the Kings at some point. I feel like Keegan Murray plays 40 minutes a game. Number two, the Spurs starters with Castle in the fifth spot. Look at that. 35.7. Group chats own Stefan Castle. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah, Rob has been on an evangelical Stefan Castle mission. And yeah, man, the other night against the Lakers, like, he just was looking like straight up. Like, I'm just as good as all of you dudes right now. Abusing Austin Reeves at points. So I was just like, whoa, that's not nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy, though. Yeah, he got the LeBron love.

So I think that dude is legit. Was, do you want to go with one of yours? Yeah, man. Occasionally, you know, the NBA can sometimes feel like semi-predictable. Like, we know who the superstars are. We mainly know who the really good teams are going to be every year. We kind of know which young guys are like, all right, moving in the right direction.

But every now and again, you get legitimately surprised. And Norm Powell, before the season started, you know, he's in his, his press day to start the Clippers season and he's talking about addition by subtraction with Paul George and I'm just like, you know, he's a vet, he's supposed to say that.

It's not supposed to be a woes me. The season's over for a start type of messaging. But I'm like, that's just chat. And then the guy proceeds to come out and he's playing like a bona fide NBA All-Star. It's really insane. And in the past, I think Norm Powell has been a nice sort of pressure-relieve valve.

like, you know, like tertiary option. Every now and again, he'll get hot and he'll beat a close out and he'll do his thing in transition. It's like, okay, it's nice, but not this year. Like, straight up 26.5 usage rate, which is freaking insane. It's like right there with James Hardin,

who we know is a usage maniac. He's making almost half of his three, taking eight and a half of them again. This is nuts. Most of those being, pull up off the dribble, like next level three point stuff. It's just shocking. He's having his best year ever at 31 years old.

Like, this doesn't happen in the NBA. And I just think that's a cool-ass story, man, for a guy who's had a pretty cool career. You know, he's made some nice money, had some dope playoff moments. But for him to come into the season, then all of us thought was just going to be a waste of a season. It's not like the clippers or world beaters or anything, but they've definitely been more competitive than I anticipated that they would be in a large party because Norman Powell is playing out of his freaking gourd. And so I definitely wanted to shout him out because this guy,

he's on the cusp of making a freaking all-star team in the Western Conference for the first time. At 31, this is crazy, y'all. In our defense, when he did say that the Paul George thing was addition by subtraction, I believe on this podcast we said the one person for whom that might be true is Norcao. Yeah, yeah, facts. Historically, when he's gotten shots, that dude puts him up.

Like, he is a great score, but I'm with you, like the level of creation that's coming from him, that's coming off the dribble for him, not attacking from the second side, not being that tertiary option that you outlined was, but like on ball, dominant player,

even like getting more and more comfortable going both directions with his offhand, like being a factor in the driving game, All of this stuff matters and it adds up. And overall, I think you hit the nail on the head. The most important part being one of the best three-point shooters in the league, period, as far as like a kickout guy, is now one of the best pull-up shooters in the league. That is a massive, massive difference, not just for the clippers,

but for what Norm Powell can be for the rest of his career. So he's increased his playmaking from 1.1 last year to 2.5. And we got to give him credit because that's a massive leap. pool. It's almost true. No, I just like, I gotta give him credit for predicting this because he was right.

Getting him more shots is a good thing. Now, the rest of the clippers are a bit of a mess most of the time. It just seems like everything comes from Hardin, by and large. And like, so you'll see a good Zubach game when he has the size advantage. But otherwise, it is

a little bit ironic that he leaves a three guard situation in Portland, just to ultimately find himself back in a different three-guard situation with the clippers. I don't know what to do with the clippers. They're spunkier than I could have imagined, in part because some of those defenders do our actual dogs, like Derek Jones Jr. and Kristen have a legitimate effect. For sure. But like the opportunities are there for Norm Powell.

He's taking advantage of him, so you have to give them credit. So I don't know. Rob, where do you stand with the clippers in general? Do you think they're playing type of candidate or are they going to actually regress as the season goes along? I think they'll be on the cusp, which for them and for what they have on their roster, I think is an incredible achievement. Will they make the play and cut? I kind of think not as some of these other teams get their seasons together.

For one, as the pelicans get healthy, like, it's very tempting right now to just punt the pelicans into the sun because they've looked really, really bad in a lot of their games. They have nobody healthy, like just nobody on their roster, really aside from like Brandon Ingram is healthy right now. So eventually they will get a fuller compliment of their players. You would think over time, I kind of see the Spurs as a team that's going to get a little better as the season goes and not a team that's going to regress. And so it's like if those teams are in the mix and the Minnesotas and the Dallases, these teams we expect to be kind of powerhouses in the West iron out some of the kinks in their seasons. And look, we might have to revisit the wolves.

We're certainly going to need to talk about the Mavs and their struggles in greater length at some point. But overall, this, when you think about those teams or teams like the Kings or teams like the Grizzlies relative to where the Clippers are now, I just don't think they have enough offensively. I think they're going to be a really good, really feisty defense that over time is going to reveal themselves to be more of what we've already seen, which is like Norm Powell is a lot on his shoulders. James Hardin has so much on his shoulders.

He can't create at any kind of efficient rate this season. Like he just can't hit even his normal levels. It's too much, I think, to compete. Now, if they were an Eastern Conference team, you know, if these were the Charlotte Clippers, they'd be sailing. They would be fifth right now in the Eastern Conference. Insane. Yeah.

it is wild the disparity that's crazy yeah but since we're talking around the pelicans I'll do one of mine and Waz's

we both were collabing on this one so it's JV and then that like exploence what is it the multiplication thing was

yes a multiplicate an X what are you talking about is JV times Waz this isn't JV featuring Waz

or Waz featuring JV though it's it's X yes okay all right not a good time for X otherwise, but on this podcast, X is where it's at.

Mine is that the Hawks won the Dejante Murray trade already because Dyson Daniels is goddamn legit. I imagine the Pelicans are probably kicking themselves. I don't know if they had this in them, but they realized they needed more of an organizer in order to make things work with Zion and Brandon Ingram there. I assume that's the case. But on his own, it seems like Daniels has already become a huge factor for the Hawks, first and foremost defensively. Currently is averaging 3.7 steals a game that is tied for the most ever in history with Alvin Robertson in 1985, 86. He's a goddamn menace on that end. The deflection numbers equally is good. I have to say Quinn Snyder was in town here yesterday in Portland and he was talking about

him. Seems like he loves him like in a way that like, watch him play. I know, but like, You could just tell the difference when a coach talks about a player, whether or not they're just like being nice about it versus like someone that just like speaks to their soul. And was, it seems like Dyson Daniels is very much a Snyder player. And so he's not really shooting particularly well at this point. But you could definitely tell he has confidence in him being a factor on that end as well going forward. Yeah, I mean, um, he had a stretch where he had 23 steals and four games. I think it was 25. That's, that's nuts.

insane. Obviously, they've never had this caliber of a defender next to Trey Young, right? Like, this dude is all defensive. First team, well, I guess, you know, since we're only letting centers on the first team, whatever. Second team level defender, and he's doing it on ball, off ball, weak side, help side, whatever the fuck you want to do on defense. He has been elite at it. And again, the jumper is not completely crisp and clean. But, you know, and Quinn Snyder has talked about this.

He just wants him to get to the point where he's shooting at all more. Yeah. And Quinn Snyder is coaching this dude up. He's unlocking something that just wasn't being realized in New Orleans for whatever reason. And to me, man, the Dyson Daniels being like, yo, he's been a bit of an internet darling for a little while. I know Rasillo is like one of his biggest fans in the mainstream media. And so like him like finally like getting the opportunity to spread his wings this way

has been really cool to watching. Like you guys know, the Hawks are amongst some of the most fun teams to watch in the NBA right now, man. We're going to need to do a deep dive at some point on what's going on in Australia. like what is going on with these Australian prospects where they all have great floor games and none of them want to shoot like they have to they have to be coaxed the Josh Giddies the Ben Simmons's the Joe Ingalls Dyson Daniels as you said has had this trajectory where it's just like encouraging

him to be aggressive Quinn Snyder said him straight Quinn Snyder's like you're going to shoot these shots or you're not going to play and sometimes you need a little bit of that kick to just like be a little bit more aggressive find yourself as a player and I think the fact that he's not shooting well, if anything for me, is all the more encouraging because he's still an impactful offensive player. Like, he's so fluid, he's so natural, he's so good

at, like, finding his way into space and making himself useful. And I had been, I'd have been a little concerned with him as a pelican about who he was going to be as a finisher, because he looked fluid with the ball, like he can handle, but trying to finish confidently was just not in his bag in his first two seasons in the NBA. You see that in a totally different way. You see the fluidity coming out. You see him really hunting for things in transition in a way that makes me feel really great about who he could be as a player and how he can fit into an offense. It's no surprise that a coach like Quinn Snyder would love him in the same way that he loves Jalen Johnson, right? These are guys who bind teams together, who put you in flow, who build on actions. It's all very

Quinn Snyder shit. And it's incredible that we're at this point, right, where Dyson Daniels is just such a huge part of this trade where I want to zoom us back a little bit to the initial. initial ESPN report of this deal, which was the Pelicans are sending two first round picks. Also forwards Larry Nance and E.J. Liddell and Guard Dyson Daniels are going from New Orleans to Atlanta. It's like it was the picks and it's also these guys. This feels like a Dyson Daniels trade to me right now. Honestly, it's good that the Pelicans didn't trade their own first round pick. They traded the Lakers pick next year as opposed to their own because they're going to need that.

It's going to be looking pretty plum. It might, no offense to Dyson Daniels, end up being better than whatever D. and Daniels gets them. But I think you hit it. I think Daniels is still developing offensively. He shot pretty well to start the season. It's kind of come back down to earth. And now you're getting to, I think, what the real version of him is. He shot it a couple times in the game against Portland the other night. It's still a little shaky, but I think he is more confident in taking it. And obviously having Quinn behind him saying keep taking them, I think he's going to mean a lot. I also think he fits well with the other guys around there because they have a lot of

guys, you can shoot and do a lot of things offensively so that if he is just more of a shooter as opposed to in the past, I thought he might be more of a point guard. Like, I think he fits a little bit better with that starting lineup because Jalen Johnson has pop. I think Risha Shay is going to be a good shooter. Obviously, trade's going to have the ball a lot and he can make magic happen with just playmaking and whatnot. So like he fits there. And I think he's been so good defensively that you wouldn't take him off the court regardless. It just like, it just seems like everything you want for him. It's hands, it's anticipation, its feel. It's also like a stealingness. I just don't think he's shaken easily. And you see this with a lot of good perimeter defenders where it's

like they just almost have like a Terminator like glare to them where it's like they're just not shaken one way or another. They're not going to go Dylan Brooks and become the villain, but they're also not going to get overly exuberant. They're just like in it, you know? And he he definitely has that. I was asking Snyder just like what about Daniels like really jumps out to him. And for him, I like that. That's right. I asked a pregame press conference. question. And he was just like his concentration throughout the game. It's not just that he doesn't take plays off. He doesn't take portions of plays off. And you can kind of see that. Definitely. Yeah. And I think another thing that that this highlights for me is the importance of context,

right? Pretty much, I would say like 90% of the NBA is context driven in terms of players, how they develop, whether they become the guys that we think that they can become in terms of their potential. Like, yes, LeBron James, KD, no matter where you put those guys, they were going to become Hall of Famers, no matter the coaching, no matter the teammates, no matter the situation, they were going to become the guys, they become. But the vast majority of guys, man, they need a good situation. They need for their gifts to be optimized where they're at. And, you know, some guys need encouragement. They need to be told like, yo, yeah, we get it. You miss five in a still take it on the sixth time.

And Dyson Daniels. And again, it's not like they were complete idiots in New Orleans for playing Herb Jones and Trey Murphy and Zion Williamson. Of course not. All forwards ahead of this kid. They weren't idiots for doing that. But, you know, he moves into a brand new situation,

new coaching. You know, it's just a fresh take on what this guy's gifts can produce for a team. And so, like, that's a cool little reminder, man. And like the context is very important for all of these guys. I think it's the context. I do think it's the coaching and a better fit and a team that prioritizes what he does well. There was still a version of Dyson Daniels and a version of the Pelicans, most importantly,

where he would have been a crucial player there and a really critical piece of what they were building. Like he could have played off of stars and inflow in the same way that he's doing in Atlanta in New Orleans eventually. Some of it is this guy's 21 years old and he's in his third season in the league and he's finding himself and his pop in the way the young players often. do. I want to push back a little bit on the framing, Justin, just in terms of Dejante Murray is like not even played this season. And so the idea of like, it's very easy to run up the score on a trade when one guy just hasn't played. And I'm not saying he's going to be gangbusters when he does. I'm not saying the pelicans are going to be magically fixed of all that ails them. You think he solves what's ailing him right now? I do not.

Specifically, Dejante Murray. I think he's better than a lot of the guys they've been forced to play of late. And I don't, I don't want to just like gloss over. that. You love the Pelicans. I don't, but I feel compelled to defend them. Like, they're not as bad as they currently look. But they look horrible. They look horrible. Yeah. I think also Daniels being on a rookie scale contract means a lot versus Murray, who's Ari on an adult-ass contract. Good contract, I would say, because I think it actually descends and isn't as much as it could be. But like, I don't know. I just think having a young guy who can grow alongside your young core just means more than having a veteran who is making adult money.

For sure. I agree with everything you're saying. Also, the starting lineup for the Pelicans the other night against the Lakers was Giovante Green, Brandon Boston Jr., Eve Missy, Brandon Ingram, and Jeremiah Robinson Earl. Those are the best players they can roll out with all due respect to Trey Jemison,

the hookshot God. They're doing what they can, but it's not a roster. It's not. And I will say it's probably easier to fit a non-shooter next. to abundance of shooting with the Hawks, as opposed to like Zion,

who as we've talked about time and time again, like needs probably a center next to him who likely isn't going to shoot. And so if you're going to keep a wing, you're probably going to lean Trey Murphy and Herb Jones, both of whom have proven to do so. So I get what you were saying. But speaking of Biggs who can't shoot, Rob,

do you want to go with one of yours? I would love to. Look, this has been kind of floating around since really the start of the season. And I was waiting to see if it would kind of sort itself out, maybe something would resolve within the rotation of this team, but I'm going to come out and say it,

the Phoenix Suns officially have a huge center problem. This is a capital I issue for this team in a way that I'm just kind of concerned about what they can do and what they can be when Yusuf Nurchich, by definition, is a critical part of what they do and how they play. He's been injured, as he often is. That's a thing with Yusuf Nerkich.

When he's played, shot 39% from the field. with more than twice as many turnovers as assists. Worse than that, I just don't think he gets it. I just don't think he gets how they play. So, they're trying to build something

that is more cohesive than last year, that is better space than last year, that has better flow than last year. I think overall they have succeeded in doing that. And yet, in the middle, you have a starting center who's just consistently trying to do the wrong thing at the wrong time,

and it looks really, really bad. I don't we're going to get to it I don't know what you do about that is kind of part of the problem we talked about this in the pre-show about the boomers being right about the big man there was a point man

where it was like right after Roy Hibbert became irrelevant like sort of as a center in the NBA and there were all these ideas about like should we just take center off of all NBA and all-star as a position like these guys wasn't an idea it happened

That is a thing that happened. These guys don't matter. They're superfluous. They grow on trees. Like, who cares about bigs? We're pacing space now. These guys can't even keep up. It was, we had completely written this position off, you know, for dead.

And now, you know, teams with credible championship contention aspirations, we're saying, like, yo, your center position is the death now. You know, we're looking at the New York Nixon. And I'm like, hey, Carl Towns, man, has kind of delivered the fucking goods since getting there. But, like, we don't think he can play center full time. And that's a problem. Like, the center position is so important, man, in today's NBA, which is just so crazy that we've come full circle on, you know,

these guys don't matter at all to, like, if you don't have a good one, you're in serious deep trouble in terms of serious playoff potential. Centering, centering. No. Very much not. You know what I think about when I watch the Suns is how much DeAndre Aiton would have fucking love this shit because they're basically asking him to float and shoot threes and be a little bit more of a stretch.

Like, if the Suns could just walk back that trade, is it like 100 times out of 100 they would do so? because not only that, but to have Kamara as a wing option, it's just like, those guys would fit perfectly for what they need. You mean DeAndre Aiton, who's currently the third best center on his own team. Well, hold on. He has a finger contusion. Okay.

And that's why he can't play. It's a deep contusion. I don't think DeAndre Aiton is cleaning up like the weird decision making blips. You know, as far as a connector in that offense, I just don't think he's capable of it. better at some things than use of Nurk, which obviously. I think Nurk is a solid enough defender in space, but he's a soft finisher. He's not a good enough decision maker.

He leaves you wanting as a rebounder, and he's not hitting three. All of those things cannot be true to a point where, like, I think Mason Plumley is like genuinely outplayed him for most of this season, but Mason Plumlee cannot be your starting center. And frankly, has not even had a chance to play with the starting lineup, basically at all. Or you're starting power forward, which they started him at this most recent game. What are they thinking?

They're down bodies at the moment. So there's some issues. Some issues. The bigger issue with all of this, I can say all this about Yusuf Nurich and Mason Plumley, for example, about how much that combination as a center tandem will leave you wanting. The Phoenix Suns are a second apron team. That's limiting in a bunch of different ways.

But I think most relevantly in the fact that, one, they cannot take back more money in any deal than they send out. And two, they cannot trade players together. So your pipe dream about packaging NERC with somebody else and getting Nick Claxton is not happening. Cannot happen. By rule, cannot happen. And if you're familiar enough with the Sun's cap sheet, you know that it's basically

the big three who are not going to be moved in a deal to shore of the center position. And then there's not a lot of other big salaries that you can trade except for Yusuf Nerkich. So Yusuf Nurchich makes like $18 million. If you're taking a spin in the trade machine to fix this problem, you need to find a center who makes less than $18 million and also account for the fact that the Sons basically don't have picks to trade. So who is coming through the door

who's going to save them? Who is the piece that's going to be more than just like a lateral move for another kind of clunky big center who doesn't really fit what they need? I don't know. The one option I think you could throw out there is you take a spin on the Rob Williams Expressway

because he has played really well in like the couple games that he's been back thus far. problem there is just like you're putting all your hopes on a guy who has not been healthy for two seasons at this point he would be great there if he could say healthy but i think the problem is what are you going to attach on top of the salary in order to match it i don't know that's where it's like if ryan done looked awesome right now i think you could intrigue a team like the blazers or someone else that like oh maybe this is another three and d sort of guy unfortunately his shot has just fallen off a

cliff it's seven for 30 over the past eight games that's all of november at this point you just can't anything. And so, like, where's the enticement for anyone to give you anything at this point? I think you're right. I think they're probably stuck. Yeah, I think in a best case scenario, you could make a sweet offer to the Hawks for like a Nyaka Kangu or something like that, right? Even in a world where the salary math was a little bit more in your favor, you could call the Raptors about Yaka Perl, who's been balling out of his mind all of a sudden. Like, those are the kinds of moves you would like for them to be able to entertain, but they don't have enough to intrigue the Hawks. They literally can't trade for Yakup Pertil.

Like, they're so boxed in that I don't know how they get themselves out of this fundamental problem other than just basically shooting their way out of it. Would Nimayas Kita be their best center? I'm sad by the pause that I have to give this question. That's insane. I really have to think about it. Because, like, look, at least he can switch. Like, he can move his feet.

He can hang pretty well. It's a big target. Big target, like probably would finish a little better than Nurt. does. I kind of think the answer might be yes. And so we may reach a point in the season where even though the options aren't great, you just have to roll the dice and see like, is Jonas Valanchunis a better fit for us than how poorly Nerk has played to that point in the season? It may come down to something like that.

Yeah, this might be the worst center rotation in basketball right now because you're thinking like emergency minutes and it's bowl bowl and just, I don't know. I just don't think that's going to work right now. So yeah, they're one and four since Katie has gone down. I will say that those games have been by and large pretty tough at Sacramento, twice, Oklahoma City and Minnesota that they just lost at the buzzer to Durandall. But it hasn't looked good. And frankly, Katie's just the one guy that they can't lose because of what you're mentioned.

On top of him being KD and being incredible, there's just not a lot of depth in that front court. This is the problem of having nine shooting guards on your roster is that you do need to mix a match a little bit. Well, he's the part we have to talk about because he's their best center. That's where they are right now. That's true. Wise, you want to go with one of yours? Man, I feel like La Mello Ball is on the verge of, like, legitimate superstar status. Like, he's taking ownership of the offense, obviously.

That was going to be his role. They paid the hell out of the guy. He's their lead ball handler. Like, their offense is going to go as far as he takes it. But I think realistically, man, when he got drafted, I think people were concerned that he wouldn't be able to make NBA threes. And the fact that he's, it's not even just like, yeah, I got that. And I'm going to lead the league in three point attempts while doing so.

And obviously, he's always had the transition game. He's always had the beautiful, wonderful feel and court vision. But I think him taking on an increased role as a score as their primary score has been, you know, pretty impressive. Again, Charlotte, not exactly a world-beating outfit, but I think it was time for this guy to take a step to becoming, you know, the most prominent person on the team, and he's done that. Like, the efficiency stats aren't great, but I do think it's just an important step for

this kid to becoming the player who I think Charlotte's management thinks that he is, that he just literally owns the entire offense. And I think it's been the pretty damn good results considering, you know, the roster construction and it's not as if he's surrounded by Hall of Famers here. You know what I mean? And so I've been quite impressed with what he's done to start the year, man.

I think a lot of it for me is like the North-South driving. Like he can, he's always been able to dance with the ball. He's always been able to pull up from crazy distances. Yeah, like the little one-footed threes he's tossing up incredible. He's actually getting to the basket. He's actually putting his head down and driving through people and into people and past people. And if you've been charting the La Mello Ball project, that has not always been the case. And I think there's probably a bunch of reasons for that, right? Like, if you have shaky ankles to begin with, driving into traffic is probably not the most comfortable

thing for you. But he has found a way to be an impact shooter, an impact creator, an impact driver. He's always been, I think, underrated as a rebounder because he is such a big guard. He's six foot eight, man. So he's building the sort of all. around game that you're right was like it lends itself to something beyond just regular all make the bottom of the all-star team kind of startem like he's more than just like injury replacement fodder at this point he's putting himself in a different level of consideration where he's he is leading something in a different way just listen i watch a lot of scoo henderson up here in portland just hoping praying to see the glimmer of like stardom and lamello has super superstar ship by the barrelful like

it's if anything he has so much of that he needs to if anything just like harness it in the right ways he needs to take the amazing stuff and just do the the little things well including giving a totally normal postgame press conference which was that was a total shit show um hopefully but it just it just seems like he does all of the magic you're hoping for a highly drafted player and i think it's interesting watching charles lee get his hands on him because i think the abundance of threes that they're taking has been interesting. Because on the one hand, it almost like plays into Lamello's worst impulse to just let him trigger from the perimeter.

But he's been pretty good at it. The offense as a whole hasn't been particularly good. They're 23rd in offense right now. They are jacking at rates that would have beaten the Celtics three point rate last year, which was one of the, was the biggest in the league and I think a Sauric class year. So they're kind of finding themselves on that end. Yeah, frankly, they're like compensating for something in that way. Like they don't have any bigs right now.

That's what I was going to say. Like, yeah, they're pretty injured. They are playing Musa Diabate at Center, who played actually pretty well against the Bucks, but they were playing Taj Gibson, like regular starters minutes at Center. Like regularly, like that wasn't just like a one-time thing because Nick Richards is out. And obviously Mark Williams hasn't played this year. Trey Man has been hurt. So like they're going through some stuff, but I guess it's a long-winded way of saying, like, I see it.

Like they're going to be big and skilled in a way that I think this team could be pretty good if they keep supplementing what they have with the Treymans and whatnot down the road. Yeah. There is kind of a weird way in which they are of a piece with the Hawks like that, right? The like Risa Shea, Jalen, Johnson, Dyson, and Daniels, like big, wingy, fluid combination of players. There's an outline of that in Charlotte, too. And some of it's like a little bit more perspective. Like, we're just still waiting for some of their young guys to pop.

We're still waiting for, like, I don't know what Miles Bridges is. to the future of this team, who's to say? But Lamello is kind of the piece of that that makes sense. I think on his good days, like even Josh Green is a piece of that that makes sense, right? He kind of fits this model of how they're trying to play. Yeah, and with young, it's always tough with a younger team with guys you're trying to develop where it's like, do you just hand them the minutes so that they can develop or do you make them actually have to play well in specific areas?

maybe they're not doing everything perfectly, but they have to be showing some level of even marginal improvement on the edges to justify a bunch of the minutes. And so, you know, that's what they call, quote, unquote. That's the growing pains euphemism, meaning we suck because we're playing a bunch of young guys who aren't really proficient at all of the winning, you know, things that you have to do in this league to win on a consistent level.

So I think there's a little bit of that happening with them too. But still, man, like if you, you know, you go out and you hand Lamello that max contract, where he's average like 35 games or whatever, 40 games played a year in his entire career. Like, it was important for him to come out this year and look the way that he's looking right now. All right.

Since we're talking about exciting young players, I think we need to get to our next one on the list, who I bring to the table. And we're going to do this from the representation of our friends at State Farm. You guys ready? Let's do it. Because now it's time for, Today's hard-to-handle segment presented by State Farm.

Life's big moments, like buying a house, can trigger big reactions. Like, I can't handle this. Dang. Or, oh, come on. But what you should say is, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. So let's talk about this week's biggest hard-to-handle moments, a.k.a. some on-court occurrences that stirred up some strong reactions. And I'm going to get some strong reactions to this one, because my friends, Jared McCain,

is brat. what does that mean I don't know in fact I I typed it out and then I had to Google it can you tell us what it means like what your best understanding of Brett based on my Google

it means that he's unapologetically himself okay Lord have mercy is that the case do you guys can you back me up or no I can't just the first time I've ever heard the definition I purposely avoided it as a grumpy

older millennial. I've avoided the entire brat thing all summer and fall, so I didn't know what it meant. But like being quote unquote unapologetically yourself, congratulations, kidd. I think that's pretty accurate. I'm wondering from a rights perspective,

given that this is a sponsor's segment, like, can we run Girl So Confusing Remix under this? Do we have the rights and the ability to do that? Or do we have to keep it completely separated from the brat verse? Is that Charlie X.C. X banger. Well, I mean, true to our collaborations earlier in this pod featuring Lord, very important text.

Oh, so I think McCain just probably exemplifies what I assume is Gen Z or what's after Gen Z? Is it Gen Alpha? Yeah. Yeah. He might even be an alpha. Who knows? I can't keep track of these things. But, you know, the nail painting, also the TikToks, which I have to say, I'm not really offended by the TikToks per se, even though I'm not a TikTok guy.

but just his TikToks just seem boring. I think I would like to see a little bit more choreography and more put into that. But I will say the choreography on the court, pretty damn good, because over his past five, 26.2 points per game, shooting 48, 44, 100 in his splits,

starting to see Waz some comparisons to one Steph Curry. Let's stop that right now. That's not Brett. The comparisons are not Brad. Probably, Obviously, less Steph Curry more, Mahmoud Abdul-Wa-Uv. Maybe he's more, you know, that.

I'd be comfortable with those comparisons, the off-the-dribble, three-point unconscious type of guy. Being compared to the single greatest shooter of any kind in the history of mankind, you know, 15 games into your career, we could probably chill on that for a little bit anyway. I like the Abdulah. I like the comp, to be honest with you, like stepping out of the step space into Abdulrof,

because Jared, I was worried Jared McCain was going to be like many of these Gen Z and Gen Alpha shooters who are coming into the league, Justin, where if the three isn't there for them, all they do is sidestep and take another three. All they do is step back and take a harder three. He's got the off the dribble juice where he can and wants to make things happen.

And he, look, he wants to pull the trigger very quickly. And if he has any space to do it, that shot's going up. But really, he has a lot. He has a lot in his bag. And in a way that right now, look, Tyrese Max, he's out for the Sixers. He might be Philadelphia's best on-ball creator at this particular moment at time. That is not his eventual fate. That is not the fortune that the Sixers would require of him.

But he's going to fit into this team in a way that lets him do some of that, but also be a knock-down shooter that's going to play even better off Joel Embed when Joel isn't like a fraction of his usual self. I am empowered and I am encouraged by what the, finished version of the Sixers can be with a scale down Jared McCain who's still very good in addition to everything else that they have cooking over there. I wrote down boundless energy because when you're watching him, he's just always doing stuff. And I think if people are making this death comp, that's probably why it just feels like even when the shot is up, he's going

there trying to track down the rebounds. Obviously the running down the rebound and then relocating off the pass and getting a three was what led to a lot of people making, I think, tongue and cheat comps to Steph. But if he could be Seth, I think that, like, prime Seth Curry. I think that's actually a pretty good player. And frankly, I think there's a little bit more to him. I think, like, he has more flow to his game than Seth ever had because, like, I think Seth was more of a playoff of guys rather than just, like, kind of move, like, run and shoot sort

of guy. So he's like the cliff paul of Steph Curry. This is what she's saying. He's the third curry, bro. I think he's more of Adele. Like, that's what you're hoping for. is the shoot, like knock down shooter obviously, but someone who has like some sixth man type energy

and sixth man type bounce to his game. I'm with you Justin. He brings something that's really important to the Sixers, which is he fucking runs. Like he plays with a lot of pace and he creates opportunities as a result. And that's a group of guys who like want to hit ahead for the most part. They just don't have a lot of spring chickens.

And they need someone with the young legs. They need someone with the youthful exuberance. They need someone who's going to get some shots up and he's going to do all those things. They need someone. who's Brad. But clearly. And they need someone who's hard to handle. So when things feel hard to handle, like when you need help protecting what matters most, remember to say, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. With State Farm, you can talk to your agent to help choose the coverage you need,

select your coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Visit Statefarm.com to learn more. Justin, can I tell you one more thing that's hard to handle? John Morant, has missed six of 14 games for the Memphis Grizzlies. I think maybe so, but not in the way you want. He might be a little too brat. There is such a thing as two brat. So Jaws missed six of 14.

Desmond Bain has missed seven games. Marcus Smart has missed seven games. Luke Canard missed the first eight games of the season. Vince Williams, just getting back in the lineup. Gigi Jackson has not played at all this season for Memphis. And the Grizzlies are eight and six. How does that happen? I think there are a bunch of reasons why.

maybe the Grizzies are deserving of their own breakout pod at some point if they continue to play this well despite these circumstances. One of those reasons is Scotty Pippin Jr. is just legit as all hell and I'm here for it. Like I love watching him play. And I'm amazed by the fact that Memphis did this again where they have just insulated themselves from the fact that Jha gets hurt and is an acrobatic player who's going to be prone to injury

by landing one of the best backup point guards in the league. They're just right back where they started with Tyos Jones. You know what's so funny about this. Scottie Piven, Jr. coming full circle. I think it was around the time his mom was in the news for various things. And my significant other was like, oh, she was on the social media. It was like, oh, she just threw a party for him making it into the NBA. And I snarkily was like, he's on the Lakers practice squad effectively.

The guy's not, I mean, he's technically in the league. But whatever, I was being like a snob and pretending like. like this kid was not an NBA player. And boy, has he made me look like a freaking idiot. He is legitimate, man. It's not just the feel like this dude plays hard as hell. Yeah. He changes the complexion of the, dare I say,

he might be have some T.J. McConnell in him in terms of the way that he changes the complexion of the game, man, when he's out there. It's quite impressive, man. Shout to the young fella. Correct me if I'm wrong, Watts. but you comparing someone to T.J. McConnell is just the highest praise that you can get someone. It's a compliment now. Well, I was actually going to ask because,

wise, you're the king of the Scotty Pippin comp. Is Scotty Pippin like Scotty Pippin? No, you can't be Scotty Pippin. You got to be at least six, six to get the Scotty Pippen count. Like six, four, like no, you just, okay, we get it.

You have a little nice all around game. You play hard and defense. If you're not an actual wing size player, you can't get the Scotty. Not even if you're named that to him. But for a player who's 6-1, I think Scotty Pippin Jr. is about as versatile as you can be. Like, he is doing the lead guard on-ball stuff,

especially when Jaws out. He's averaging more assists per game right now than Deerrin Fox, Jamal Murray, Brandon Ingram, Draymond Green, Kyrie, J-dub, Kobe White. Those are really good, mostly secondary creators, or in some cases, primary creators.

He's racking up assists in, like, a pretty training wheels kind of point guard role. not really putting himself out there, not really pushing a lot. Like, he knows his job. What I've been impressed by even more than that is that he's solid on the ball. He's super comfortable off of it. And him being able to play with Jha is something I did not anticipate this coming into this season, an option I did not think that the Grizzlies were going to have.

And I think they get away with it because he gets after people defensively, because he can get away with defending some bigger guards, and because he's turned himself into a really good shooter. And so, yeah, he's, he does have the McConnell energy in the sense that, like, you can play TJ and Tyrese together, right? You can play those guys together in a way that is additive to your offense. I think the pace that Scotty Pippin Jr. gives you. I think the defense he gives you. I think the fact that he is so flexible on and off the ball. Like, he just made himself a part of some of Memphis's, like, most disruptive lineup, some of their liveliest groups. And that's to me when they're at their best. Yeah, I think the easy comp is Tyos Jones. And I think it's probably the right one,

because I think he is at his basic core level, a pass-first organizer. He wants to get other guys involved. But he made his bones as a defender, and I think that's probably his best asset. And so because of that, I think he gives you that. He don't sacrifice, even though he is small. I think he really brings a punch on that end. And so maybe you can mix and match with him a little bit more. His shooting has been very good.

He really is, I mean, not like Scottie Pippen at all. But the Jack of All Trades thing does kind of work because he's not elite maybe at one thing. but he is pretty good at everything. Like he doesn't really sacrifice any one thing. And so he just seems to fit everything that they're doing. And you got to give the Grizzlies a lot of credit here because we talked about the thunder being so deep with all these guys that they could just throw in there. Like the Grizz is just fine guys.

And they also find guys that used to be guys or other teams because it's not just pippin. Jay Huff is a fucking baller who's dunking on people's heads and like shooting threes. Shout out to the Grizzlies using the Lakers as their farm system. Just really pulling guys out. Look, prospect evaluation, especially at the G-League level, is just like one of the most impossible things to do in the NBA. Knowing Scotty Pippin Jr. comes up to the Lakers, as was that, he's on kind of the practice squad. He's getting in like a couple minutes at the end of a game. Like, how do you really gauge a player like that relative to the complete absence of context and competition?

That said, the Lakers could sure use Scotty Pippin Jr. right now. They could really use any point guards right now. They could use Jay Huff right now. of teams could use these players. I think Memphis. The box who we talked about with the depth issues. They could use a Scotty Pippin Jr. Completely.

And I almost see it less as like, oh my God, the Lakers whiffed on these guys and more that Memphis has proven consistently capable of finding them. Like something in the scouting department there is really going right. Jay Huff dunking on people's heads, reverse jams and all kinds of craziness. Like, who the hell knew that was coming? He's good. Let's get him his own like carabiner night at Memphis. like just a carabiner with his name or face on it or something like that, that'd be cool.

Is he a climber or does he just look like a climber? He just looks like a climber. That's fair. Yeah. I will say we talked about with the Grizzlies as they were going through many pains of last season. Like, oh, maybe the extra reps will get guys opportunities and maybe they can carry that into a different role next season. Pippin has done that in spades. I also think Jaron Jackson been really good and has had more punch off the dribble, which he was doing too much of last.

year, but now that it's a little bit more reserved, I think he's been really well served by that opportunity. And I got to say, the shooting also kind of back. We took away his spacer badge in our top 100. I think we got to get back to him. I think he did. Yeah, he saw that. He's like, God damn, I need a spacer badge on the ringer top 100. So shots at the Grizzlies. They've been playing well. Let's wrap it there. Thank to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Thursday, as per usual. We'll talk to you then.