The Ringer NBA Show - Ja Morant Mania and the NCAA Tournament Through an NBA Draft Lens | The Corner 3

Episode Date: March 22, 2019

We assess a dominant first-game performance from Murray State point guard Ja Morant, who has now solidified his case to be a top-three pick in the coming NBA draft (1:20). Then we note a bevy of prospects to look out for in this weekend’s March Madness games (17:00) before switching to the NBA and trying to make sense of a heavily clustered race for the five-through-eight seeds in the Western Conference playoffs (35:10). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. March Madness is here, and to help you with your bracket, make sure you listen to one shiny podcast with Mark Titus and Tate Fraser. Also, be sure to check out The Ringer's YouTube channel to watch Tate and Titus build their bracket and break down every matchup on their selection show, as well as Roger Sherman, who offers his three Cinderella picks for the NCAA tournament. You can find those at YouTube.com slash The Ringer. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show.

This is The Corner 3. My name's Kevin O'Connor and over in Los Angeles. To bring our associate editor, Danny Chow. Missing you, buddy. Yeah, man. I'm missing being in California. Looking forward to being back. I'm home in Massachusetts right now.

But I am happy to have back in Dallas from his one-week hiatus. It's ring our staff writer, Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? Sorry to talk March Madness. We're recording us during the Cincinnati Iowa games. We can't have any Jaron Cumberland takes. That's how deep we're going to get. Yeah, this will be a deep podcast.

It's going to be a mostly draft class edition. of the corner three, though at the end of the podcast, we will be discussing the Western Conference playoffs because there's four teams with the same record entering the same day. It'll be wild end of the season of the NBA. But first, we're going to talk about John Morant. He was a star of Thursday's NCAA tournament games. John Morant is the top point guard prospect in the 2019 draft. He dominated Murray State's 83 to 64 victory over Marquette by taking only nine shots. He had 17.16 assist, 11 rebounds, and he did have seven turnovers over his 39 minutes. But Danny, you published an article yesterday where you asked, well, how will John Morant

fare under the brightest lights of his career? And Thursday night, he clearly passed his first test under those bright lights. But did we learn anything new about John Morant? I think in general, for the general public who have just kind of watched John Morant kind of off in the periphery, you know, sports center highlights, these massive dunks, these incredibly athletic plays. They basically just realized that this guy's a legit point guard.

He's like, you know, he puts so much zip on his passes. He has touch on his passes. You know, he commands the floor. He commands a certain presence. And we're not just talking about, you know, a guy who has to be built into a point guard. We're talking about a point guard who happens to be

very, very athletic. Yeah, I think with Jha, Charles Barkley said it maybe best at halftime. He said a lot of players shoot themselves into games. Jaws seemed to pass himself into that game. He's an elite passer at the college level, and granted he had seven turnovers. The 16 assist that he had, Charks, he had some just ridiculous off the dribble assist or accurate passes off the dribble

that not a lot of point cards seem to have the ability to have. Yeah, he was just having fun out there. That was kind of like, I guess that's obvious, but it was like watching a guy in total commands. So he got in that game, he saw Marquette. He took like two possessions. Oh, I get to do him whatever I want. these guys can't guard me.

They're basically like Swiss cheese on defense. I'll go wherever I want. And like he made it. He has a lot of turnovers, but I think that's his thing all years. Like when he knows he has a game in hand, like, I think he averages like 10 or 11 assists in like five turnovers. Like he'll make the crazy pass because he can do it because why not at that level? Just said after the game, like he rated his performance a 3.5 out of five because he had those two too many turnovers. And a couple of them were because his teammates weren't ready for passes.

Some of them were because he was being a careless. he had a behind the back pass that was very unnecessary. But for the most part, I think watching John Morant reminds me so much of Tray Young last year at Oklahoma. They're different style players with their scoring styles, but Trey Young also displayed that

ability just to see the floor at a high level and pass guys open off the dribble. I think that's an elite ability for John Morant where a lot of the talk will be about his athleticism, the big donkey had, the step back three that he had, but the passing is his best

skill and that's going to keep him on the floor early in his career. Yeah, I think the stepback three was kind of what stood out to me when that. I feel like in that game, he was very comfortable. And as he was bringing right, like Marquette really couldn't ball hawk him too much. He kind of got wherever he wanted to go on the floor. And he was just comfortably making threes. And I think that's the difference to him and Trey Young, obviously. I think for Jod, that's the big thing going forward, given his like slider frame

is he's got to become a really, really good three point shooter. And if he can make those shots consistently, there's no something to how good he can be. Right. And just watching the game yesterday and the kinds of passes he was making, this is kind of like a sort of deep cut for our generation. But I was kind of reminded of Rod Strickland. Like a really... Nice. Way to stay on brand, Danny.

90s basketball players. Yeah, just a historically like underrated point guard who like, if you watch him play, he kind of looks a bit more like Kyrie. But the types of passes that he made, like I think John Morant, that's kind of like the player he can be at the next level. I'm not completely sold on his kind of athleticism in tight quarters. I still want to see him against this Florida State defense, which is enormous and athletic, and they can kind of shrink the floor and force him to make plays in tight spaces,

whereas Marquette, he was basically just running wild, you know? To your point about this Florida State defense that he'll face on Saturday, I don't think we necessarily learned anything new about Morant in yesterday's game. it was just him kind of bursting it onto the scene for people that are watching, you know, watching these draft prospects or watching college basketball for the first time all year. And that's cool, right? I think that it's better.

There's never a bad time to, to realize that there's going to be another great point card coming into the league. But with Jai, I do think, like you said, Charks earlier, the scoring ability is going to be what makes him either just a good point guard or a great point guard because he did have that step back three and that showed what he could be,

but he still has a really. slow shooting release and transitioning into his shot off the dribble isn't a strength of his. So I think in this matchup against Florida State, he's probably going to have to get buckets. They're probably not going to win that game with him shooting only nine shots. And with John Moran, that's going to be the question moving forward. So with him, do you think right now at this stage, John, does he need to make changes to his mechanics or is it more or less just proving that he can do it? because oftentimes guys don't make these tweaks to their mechanics.

I mean, it's hard to say because he really hasn't faced that much high-level competition this year. He's mostly had his way against, like, substandard players. So it'll be really fun to watch this Florida State game. And I think for those so much college basketball, like Marquette and Florida State are kind of like diametrically opposed teams. So Marquette, they pretty much recruit only shooters. They're not terribly athletic. They don't play much defense. Florida State's the exact opposite.

All Leonard Hamilton does is recruit tall, athletic, fast players. They aren't always very skilled, but every guy in his team is usually got NBA size, NBA athletic ability. And a lot of times, their players are bigger to NBA players because they're not that skill. There's like freakishly large and athletic. So I'm looking at their lineup, they go like 6-4, 6-5, 6-7, 6-8, 7-4. This team is freaking huge. So it'll be fun to watch jog and it's like guys with his athletic ability. I think that's somebody curious to what's like it's going to look like. Yeah, I'm looking at this lineup. And like the average height is like 6-8 and the average weight is like 225.

Oh yeah, they got a 6-8-2-60 like power 4. It's incredible. There's a number of different guys that Jaws probably have to score against. Terence Mann, their senior star of the team. There's going to be a handful of different matchups that Jaws going to have to prove himself against. And I think that's primarily the main thing I'm looking for is how does he how does he adapt when he's facing these different types of players, especially someone like Terrence man? Yeah.

And I think if you look at it, his scoring at the rim numbers aren't as great as you'd expect for guys as athletic ability. So that'll be interesting to watch too. Yeah, I just, I, the comparisons to, you know,

John Wall and Russell Westbrook feel a little overblown in that sense because he just doesn't really have the physical makeup. Like, he's just, he's a, he's kind of a,

a skinnier, leaner frame. And so I don't know if he's necessarily going to be able to bulk up like those two. And also like, look, Russ is at the rim numbers aren't very good either. And so it's not always, you know, about athleticism. And a lot of it is

drawing files too, right? Yeah. So with James Harden, part of what makes him an elite finisher's ability to draw, to absorb contact, finish through contact, or just draw files. And like, that's the one separator between someone like him and Carrie Irving. So if you're looking purely at field goal percentage at the rim, that is not always the greatest indicator of what a guy's true ability is. It should be like true shot attempts near the rim, which it would include. drawn files and that's where John Morant over the course of time, I think with his leaner frame is going to have to, A, learn how to finish, you know, with finesse, with crafty offhand finishes. And he can finish with both hands, but continuing to master that skill.

But also as he's at stronger, just the ability to absorb contact. Because as he said, Danny, like he is an explosive leaper off two feet, but not yet is he that guy in traffic all the time. He's going to dunk over guys. Right. Yeah, that's the thing that I'm most. interested in because I feel like that is, you know, it's definitely more of a functional athleticism at the next level. Like, sure, anyone can, you know, run down the court and jump off two feet and dunk at the NBA level. Like, Derek Williams was a great example. He looked like,

you know, LeBron on certain, you know, lob attempts, but you put him in, you know, you put him in traffic and he looks like a, you know, a baby deer. And so that's kind of a separator in terms of you know, true elite athleticism in my view. And, too, as you were saying, then, he's built more like Deerron Fox. Right. I don't think he has Foxes like pure top end speed. Like, he's probably like a,

maybe like 90% of Fox's speed or 85%. And I think, too, we'll see in this game as like his defense. He doesn't play much defense. And he might have to in this one. And I want to see a Floridaist that tries to attack him on defense. I'd be curious to see that because they have the guards

to really go at him in terms of size, at least. It's like with a rant, he's probably going to end up, depending on what the, what the draft order is, the second or third player taking this draft. And I like him a lot as a prospect. I think he's going to be a really good point guard. He's a great prospect.

But I'm not sure he'll be a great player without the defense, as you said, Charg. He's not very active on the end of the floor. He's hidden. He was not always a primary defender against Marcus Howard and Thursday's game like you would have liked to have seen in that matchup. But it's understandable why? Because he's so lean. because he needs to save energy for the offensive end of the floor,

but he will have to defend on Saturday, but still, besides that, it gets back to that jumper. And I think that is going to be the great separator in what he is. Without a jumper, let's say he's an average shooter, as he has been in his two years. What is his floor and ceiling with that average shot charts?

I mean, without a great jumper, is he Jeff Teague? Like, maybe a better passing Jeff Teague? Ooh. I mean, Jeff Teague was a good player. a long time. He was an All-Star. Started a 61 team, went to conference finals a few times.

It's a good career. Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard to come up with a comparison for him. I've been, it took me a really long time to even get to the whole Rod Strickland thing, but that was even just more looking at his passing ability.

There just aren't that many point guards you can think of with his build who have gone on to become like huge success stories. One of the ones who are trying to be elite shooters. Right. I think in the NBA draft guide, we have the skinny John Wall comparison.

I think John Wall was not nearly as good of a passer as Morant is right now coming out of college. I think that comparison for what Wall became is maybe fair for what Wall is today. Granted, he's injured, but when Wall is healthy, I think maybe that's the lane for Morant as a really good passing point guard, handful too many two turnovers, great in the overall. open floor, but that lack of a jumper could be a limitation in half court situations, because as great as John Wall is, the half court for him has been a hurdle in the NBA, especially in the playoffs for the Wizards. So I still think that that's what it will be from a rant.

How much does he improve his shot? Because right now, he had that great step back, like you mentioned, Charks looking very comfortable on the floor. But with his low release and the slower release transiting into the shot off the dribble, I think he's a long way away from being a, a reliable shooter off the dribble, which is really the differentiator between elite point cards,

great point cards, or good point cards and great point cards. Well, now that I think about it, too, so I'm looking at like the NBA standings, and the team's the top of drafts are probably going to need a point guard. You got the Bulls and the Sons. So that means he's likely going to be

starting next to Levine or Devin Booker. So he better to play some defense. What is the best fit for him? Of those teams most likely to land? Granted, like this year is tough with the draft lottery odds for what it's worth. Like, if you're looking at different odds, like there's a 20% chance the Pelicans land a top four pick.

So it could be a wide number of teams, but are there any best fits that stand out for you looking for John Morantz? I think, I mean, I think Chicago makes a lot of sense in terms of, look, he's a guy who loves feeding the ball and the Bulls just have a lot of players who need the ball fed to them. I like Memphis, actually, as kind of like a successor. Oh, he was on right?

Yeah. Of course you bring up to Lonright. Of course. I like the Memphis fit as well. Yeah. The Memphis fit, I think New Orleans is intriguing if you're pairing him next to Drew Holiday. Having him with a defensive oriented player in the back hole is going to be critical.

I like the Lakers fit as well if they were to keep their player. That seems, I don't see LeBron having much time for that. I don't either. Bringing in a rookie point card, that's not going to happen. Theoretically, you know, if Jeff Van Gundy got his wish, I'm just saying. if you're moving on at some point, which is not going to happen and should not happen. But if you're building a young core moving forward around LeBron

and for the post-Lebron era, I do think that would be an intriguing fit with Barant and Lanzo Ball. There's just not enough shooting, though. It's not perfect. I don't think there is a perfect fit with him, honestly. I will say Chicago, I mean, they won't play much defense, but that'd be a heck of a fun team to watch.

If you go Jahl, Levine, Porter, Lari, Carter, that seems to score a lot of points really fast. And, like, Levine, Lori, and Porter all makes sense off the ball. They'll compliment Jha really well. That's three knockdown shooters that Jock come off a card or screen. That could be, that's something. I don't know what the ceiling on that team is, but that's a pretty high floor. Right.

And I know that Sons fans are just like, they just want a point guard. It's been, what, like four or five years since they had, like, too many point guards. And now they just, they're just craving for one so badly. So Phoenix is always in the mix. But yeah. No, exactly. But they're looking for anything at this point. I think that fit works with Devin.

Obviously, Devin Booker needs to improve a lot defensively, and so would Morant in that situation. But Morant is not a bad off ball spot-up shooter. And Devin Booker, that's the one skill that has sort of been put to the backside for him right now because of the fact that he's been asked to run so much pick and roll. But he's a great off-screen shooter coming off-dribble handoff. So I would like the Morant-Booker back court, provided Booker's able to elevate his defense when there's less of a demand on him on the offensive end.

Oh, man. But like Booker covering for Morant on defense just sounds like, oh, my God. That sounds like a losing formula. Like that provides a lot of work in that sentence, Kevin. I know. There's the thing. That's the thing, though. It's like there's no perfect fit for him.

I mean, the team the drafts are moving forward is going to have to shuffle some pieces around. But that's okay because that's usually happens. There's so much roster turnover in the NBA. Do you guys have any other thoughts on John Morant? We want to hit before we're going? I mean, do you guys have any, like, serious thoughts on his defensive potential? Because, like, I don't, he just doesn't play any defense right now.

So, like, it's so hard to kind of judge him based on what he's doing now. It's hard to see him being very switchable down the road. That's like the, I mean, that's like the overriding concern, even beyond everything else. He's just not that big. Even if he starts playing with more effort, like, he doesn't play with much effort now. But even if that starts with the limited frame. I'm not sure he's somebody who can switch either. He's somebody that teams are going to attack.

Right. There are plenty of other games happening yesterday as well. So we're going to hit on the prospects you need to watch on Saturday from the winning teams. And then we're going to also hit some guys that we wish we could see more of from the teams that lost yesterday. I'll start off with the guy that randomly popped up on tons of highlight reels on Twitter or on Sports Center, a host of highlights everywhere else. Fletcher McGee. Fletch from Wofford. Fletcher McGee can shoot the lights.

broke the NCAA career three point record on Thursday. And on Saturday, he's going to have the chance to add more. But I am wondering, Danny, do you see McGee as an NBA prospect? And there's anything that he can show on Saturday's game against Kentucky to show that he is an NBA player? Just hit more threes, man. Just hit as many threes as you can. Like, I don't know if there's anything. Like, we're not here to be talking about, you know, his rebounding or defensive potential.

Like, you have one skill and you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, You know, you're born with this gift. Just keep going. If you can hit, you know, another game where you're, like, hitting, like, eight threes in a night, I think that might be enough to get them, you know, more than enough summer league looks. I mean, if PJ's off for, if PJ's off for Kentucky, maybe they're vulnerable. I mean, if he can be Kentucky, who cares?

Like, he's a legend for life. I think that's why, to me, he's a must watch on Saturday because whether or not he's an NBA player, just tune in to watch this guy's stroke threes at the college level. It is a pleasure to watch. And if Wofford does beat Kentucky, it'll probably be because McGee put on an epic shooting display. So I'm looking forward to seeing that. Danny, who do you got? Chuma Okiki from Auburn. So he's a second year player, 6-8, 2-30-ish. You look at his frame and you think, oh, this guy kind of looks like Marquis-Christ, but he's kind of like the inverse of Marquis-Christ in that. His feel for the game is really high level, but his athleticism

is kind of like average to below average. He's more of a lateral guy than a vertical guy, for sure. And he's a guy who could hit threes. He's very comfortable dribbling the ball. He can really shoot it. Yeah, he could really shoot it. And he just has like really quick hands. He's really smart on defense.

He had two great games against Tennessee earlier this year. Both wins by Auburn, by the way. One for the SEC title. I think against Dietrich Lawson, of Kansas, who he's going to be facing in the second round, you're looking at kind of a similar type of player to Grant Williams in that he's a mature body who can kind of do everything on the floor. And so I kind of want to see what he looks like,

both on offense and defense against a guy like that. Yeah, that would be a fun game because Kansas kind of goes big and small. So they'll play Lawson at the four sum. They'll move Lawson to the five and play him against wings. So we're really going to see like all types of O'Keekees' versatility in this one. Yeah. And would you view this player as I first try? round pick, Danny.

He can definitely play himself into it. I think I would actually put him in the low first round for myself. Yeah. Tarks, who do you got? I'm a shout out Nasreed at LSU. LSU is a really fun team to watch. So I was watching that Yale game. And they've got so many guys to NBA kind of tools.

And I'm like, man, I say Will Wade's dropping bags. Like, he sounds like a real squad. Like, if Will Wade can't coach anymore, I let him be a scout for me. You know, so to see talent. And then in this one, you've got Nas Reid. he's like 610, 240. He can play inside and outside. It's a pretty good shooter.

He can put it on the floor. I think he's got a ton of talent. He hasn't been talked about much this year, but this could be a good game for him to really kind of shine against an NBA front court, at least the physical ability, and Jalen Smith and Bruno Fernando. I'm just really interested in Nasride.

He's kind of in the mold of what I envision the future Greg Monroe's of the league looking like. Like a guy you could bring up. bring off the bench, who's a big body, but just super skilled and can kind of do a little bit of everything on the floor. But he's probably going to have some defensive limitations, but you're okay with that off the bench. Yeah, I've been thinking Bobby Portis, that kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, if I'm somebody listening to this podcast and I'm like, who are these guys? I've never heard of them before, but they sound like players the NBA could

use today. I would be thinking to myself, why is everybody calling this draft class extremely weak. So I guess I'm curious, do you guys think that maybe this draft is a little bit stronger in terms of role player talent than maybe it's perceived as so far? I feel like because there's so much talk about this draft class being weak after, you know, the first two or three picks, teams and players and fans are all kind of thinking more about, you know, role and thinking a lot more about specific talents that can be added to a team. I don't know if it's any better in terms of role player talent. It's just, I feel like we're more cognizant of it.

I think two people, like, we're a very star-driven culture, right? When people say a draft is strong or weak, they're just talking about the stars. That's all we're talking about. Right. And I think after Zion, there's no surefire star. But to me, like, most drafts only have two or three stars anyways. So if you already got one star locked in, if you just have one or two guys' expectations, just kind of end up being a strong draft. Wouldn't stun me.

Definitely. And I think that also kind of allows us to circle back to John Morant too, where it's like the conversation is largely based off can this guy be a superstar? But we're like, you know, maybe he just ends up being a slightly better version of Jeff Teague, which is fine. Like that's a, that's not a bad result at all. But I think the focus so much is on what the top guys become. But when reality, there are some strong role players to be found in the middle of the first round and into the late first round.

I think like we talked about last week, Danny, somebody like Brandon Clark from Gonzaga. I'm excited to see him at the NBA level. Even somebody like Nasir Little from North Carolina who has been horrible all season long, I think if your team drafting like 12th or 13th or it even falls further than that, it's worth gambling on someone who was an elite high school prospect. Rui Hachamur, also from Gonzaga, there's a handful of nice players that are worth gambling on in the middle of the first round, whether you can feel confident can at least be a solid role player for you.

Absolutely. You know, I think, too, people tend to look at it more at the one and done's. So if it's a one undone class is weak, the draft is third week. But that might not be the right way to look at it. As you were saying, Kat, there might be a lot of upperclassmen, who are the late bloomer should kind of become even better in the NBA, even if the one undone guys aren't as strong. And speaking about upperclassmen, not a lot of prospects lost on Thursday's game.

So I guess I'll pass to you, John, first. Who is one prospect on a losing team? that you wish you could see more of before the NBA draft combine. Yeah, this one was tough because, like, remember last year, we lost Tray Young and Aten in day one. It was like crazy. It was like wild. And this year, I'm like, I don't know.

I'm looking at these teams. Most of the guys won. The guy for me is, I'll go with Cody Martin. I think, so the Martin twins in Nevada that every disappointing season, they had seen last year a top 10 team didn't come together. And I think Caleb's gotten most of the attention because he's a better score. But I've always liked Cody. is a more versatile wing.

He's a 6-7 guy. He was the Mountain West defensive player of the year two years ago. And he runs kind of point forward for them. And this year he's actually shot pretty well. That was why he was knocking Cody Barman, he was a bad shooter. I think that's a guy,

second round, might be an interesting flyer. Right. Who do you got, Danny? I got Dylan Wendler from Belmont. He had a big game. He had a huge game. 35 points in a loss to Maryland. I mean, it was heartbreaking loss at the end.

but the guy can stroke the ball I mean he he hit what seven eight threes last night and he kind of has a little bit of everything in terms of the offensive repertoire like he pulled off a you know pitch perfect James Harden's step back

looking a little bit like Joe Engels with the left hand and the kind of lanky kind of weird Lucy shot form he's an incredible like cutter knows exactly when to cut knows how to like use his body for you know, to absorb contact and all that,

kind of get around the rim. I'm really kind of fascinated by this guy. I think he has enough athleticism to make it in the NBA, and he has all of the scoring talent. He's like 6-8 to 200 pounds, just for reference. It's funny you say how good at Cutter he is.

Like Belmont ran their play at the end of the game from the back cut. Yeah. That was kind of crazy. Yeah. I thought that was going to work for him, but unfortunately did not. Moving on to the games happening on Friday,

just we've talked a lot about Duke already. We've talked a ton about Zion. But Jonathan, you wrote about Duke's other guys, Cam Reddish and R.J. Barrett and what we need to see from them moving forward in the tournament. They face North Dakota State today on Friday. What are you looking for depending on how long Duke's tournament run goes from Cam Reddish and RJ Barrett to have more confidence to them as draft prospects moving forward?

Yeah, the kind of the thrust of the piece was like for all the talk of Zion and coming in this tournament. I feel like Zion at this point is pretty much a known commodity. We know what he's going to do. Duke knows who's going to do. He's going to do what he's going to get his numbers. I think for me, if Duke's going to win a championship, it'll come into RJ and Cam. And they've been like the furthest thing from like known commodities. They've been so up and down all season. Can those guys, I think it's just simple stuff for them. Can they take care of the basketball, not turn it over? Can they lock in on defense? Can they make open shots? Like, that's all you have to do in your playing the guy as good as Zion. But honestly, those guys, those guys, guys haven't done all that well this year. So I want to see them kind of in smaller roles. Can they do the fundamental stuff to win games? How far do you think Cameronish could fall? Oh, man. I mean, look, if you're just not convinced, like, if you just stripped him of all of his, like, archetypal NBA wing frame and all of that, and you look, and you just look at his numbers and you're just like, are you just watching play. Yeah, what, yeah, exactly. Yeah, like, he makes so many mistakes. He can't finish around the rim. it's really hard to

unless you are just convinced that his body will make it so that he can translate regardless I don't know man like can he can he slide past 10 no way right I don't know I mean we saw Miles Turner slide to 11

a couple years ago because of the running issue that he had that was one of the reasons why and after an underwhelming season at Texas that was a stronger draft though so with Cam Runish I just I don't see him sliding out of the top 10 unless he just totally falls flat on his face in the tournament because he hasn't been bad defensively by any means. I just I just think to your point in the

article charts, I would like to see him be an elite defender. It would be nice if he could hit some spot-up jumpers. It would be nice if he didn't fall when he's driving to the rim. Like part of me wonders with Cam Renish, like how much of how much is like the draft Twitter sphere and everybody else, everything else hanging on to him as a top five prospect? How much, does that have to do with the fact that he just entered college as a top prospect instead of viewing him for what he is in this 30 game sample? Or is it that like maybe this 33 game sample at Duke? It's is this being weighed too much against what he did in high school, which was really, really high level basketball as a score. Here's the thing.

I think with Cam, I could see his stock falling for now after a bad tournament. Like in my mind, I'm already seeing some game where he has like four fouls and offensive fouls. It plays like 15 minutes and it gets like three points and they lose. That's what I'm seeing in my mind right now. But I feel like when he gets those workouts, he gets in your gym. And you watch him, like, he's a guy, if you watch him shoot in warmups, it's like, my God, this man is incredible. And like if he gets in a gym, hits like a bunch of threes, it's moving really well. I can just see a GM talking themselves into Cameradish after they work him out.

I can see him really moving a stock backup after a bad tournament. Okay. So right at, so right when you were saying all of that, I have a perfect comparison for Cameradish. Contavius Caldwell Pope. Yep, could be. Well, he's way bigger, though. Yeah, he's way bigger. But what you just described,

I remember watching Contavius called Will Pope in a, I think it was a draft express video where all he was doing was draining threes. And then they did like this warm up where he just like ran in circles and caught Alley Ups and just did that for like 15 straight reps. He just ran around and caught Al Ups.

And I was like, this guy's my guy. Yeah, Campbell and Empton. Jim All-Star for sure. He's an empty gym superstar. And that's the fear, right? He could be a big KCP or a big, big, big Ben McLemore where like with Ben McLemore in the 2013 draft, I really liked him. I viewed him as somebody who would be better with NBA spacing and over the course of time. And I'm not as a handle KOC. Oh my goodness. It's scary. I can see it. Yeah, because this IQ issues. Yeah. It's scary. And like, I loved Cameronish hitting this season. I felt that Cam had a chance to be their number one prospect on my board. It's just like there's no way. Obviously with Zion emerging, but I don't think there's any chance he'll be number two at this point because so much of his game is theoretical. And I guess I just moving forward in the tournament, I don't feel

even confident that he's going to show it during Duke's run. And that's just how far he's falling in my eyes. But I still, in this year's draft class with his age and his body and his length and the way his game looks, I still think he'll end up like in my top five. I don't see him falling much further than that because of all the tools. Yeah. How much did we watch Paul George as a freshman in college? You know? I'm just saying, I'm not saying he'll be Paul George,

but there's a long way for him to improve his ball handling and master his shooting when he does have good tools. I'm really intrigued by the, I'll dig into my bag right now. Virginia is a team that, you know, has kind of become a weird NBA factory over the past couple, you know, past what, seven years now, generating like really high level role players. And one role player that I am looking forward to seeing is Ty Jerome, six five combo guard, kind of a lean, lean frame. He's an excellent shooter.

He's an excellent shooter from spot-ups. He's an excellent shooter off movement. And I think he has a real chance at really increasing his draft stock, maybe becoming like a late first rounder against Gardner Webb, who happens. to be one of the worst teams at, you know, they basically allow a ton of threes every single game. They allow 27 attempts per game, and Virginia is basically unbeatable

when they average at least 24. And so, yeah, I think this could be one of those, like, oh, yeah, this guy's definitely an NBA prospect. Who do you got, sharks? All right, I'm going to give a shout out to my guy, Ethan Hap. So what about the NCAA turn toorn anything? is like just a wide variety of players you're going to see. And I'm not sure if Ethan Hap can play in the NBA.

He's a 610 point center, incredibly skilled, great post game. But he's not super athletic. He can't really shoot it all to save his life. But man, is he a fun player to watch? Ethan Hap, that's the kind of guy. He's a college legend. He's awesome. He's really fun to watch.

I don't know what's going to happen in the NBA, but I'm going to watch him play. Yo, you got a shout out this comp you got, though. Yeah, he's like a weird Joe Kim Noah, Kyle. L. Anderson, mismash of players. I don't even know how to describe Ethan Hap. He's an odd ball, for sure. Is there any hope for him as an NBA player charts? I think a playmaking

five off the bench, maybe. I mean, he can really pass the ball. I think there's a chance. I don't know if he can defend anyone, though, on a good team. So you're saying he's like a non-athlete Mason Plumley, like a triple-double machine in theory? Way more skilled, though. Way more skilled that Mason. He can dribble and stuff. I mean, he's got skills.

Who do you think gets a triple-double first? Mason Plumley or Ethan Hap. Ethan Hap, G, Leak for sure, triple double. Friday's games, I'm looking forward to watching Taylin Horton Tucker, a freshman guard slash wings slash big. I'm not sure exactly what he is.

No idea. Playing for Iowa State against Ohio State's 27th ranked defense. Horton Tucker's interesting, guys. Just turned 18 in November. It doesn't really have a position. Danny, in your article on Thursday, you described him as a dream for a Mike Dantonie led offense.

Yeah, like he, I can imagine him like playing five, like spot five minutes for Dan Tony. Like he has what? So he's six four, really stout base, but he has like a 7-1 wingspan. And so,

yeah, why not? Why not trot him out for a couple minutes, like in the PJ Tucker role? They got a fun team, man. They're a fun team to watch. I think Horton Tucker's a guy in this year's draft class

where with so much uncertainty, especially in the lottery, I do wonder if in workouts, he's somebody that could rise, where in college, shot selection is definitely an issue for him. He throws up far too many wild floaters and off-balanced layoffs around the rim.

His decision-making isn't great, but I do wonder if in workouts, he's somebody that can show that he's a really, really good shooter off the catch. He could show an improved shot off the dribble. And maybe, you know, when he's training for the draft,

his athleticism improves even more. I do wonder if he's something that could rise from a nice mid-first-round pick into a higher lottery pick. Is there any hope of that happening in the tournament charts, or is that something you think would have to happen in workouts? See, I kind of wish he goes back to school. He's such a raw player right now. Like, the tools are there, but I get why I'd go pro in a weaker draft. But, man, I feel he's a guy I could use another year of experience in college, though. Whatever, right?

Yeah, I mean, if him and Tyrese Halliburton stay another year, that's, That's a pretty dangerous team for Iowa State. Before we move on to talk about the NBA Western Conference playoff race, I just want to tell you that on Wednesday, the early version of our 2019 NBA draft guide went up. It has 15 of my scattering reports. And soon enough, we're going to be adding rankings from me, Danny and John. We'll have commentary from Danny and John and Roger Sherman

and a bunch of others like Mark Titus and perhaps Tate Frazier as well. So check that out at NBA draft. Theringer.com. anyway, the NBA is still playing games. We got a couple weeks to go and entering Friday. We have four teams in the Western Conference all tied at 42 and 30, the Thunder, Spurs, Jazz, and Clippers all at 42 and 30 entering the weekend. Danny, this race is going to be wild down the stretch.

How do you see it shaking out? Dude, I don't even know. Like, the Jazz lost yesterday and suddenly the Thunder who were at the 8 moved up to the five. And so, like, honestly, I'm just waiting for its end. I am not good at math. I do not want to do any of these calculations. Just give me the final slate and I'll be happy with it. I do think entering this weekend, it would not surprise me at all if we see the spurs in that seven or eight spot because they have a tough schedule against the rockets and the Celtics,

whereas the jazz got the bulls on Saturday. The clippers have the calves and the Knicks. I think San Antonio and OkC are going to have a lot harder of the weekend, which brings us to the NBA watch of the night. On Friday night, the Thunder are facing Toronto in the second game of a home and home. That's on an NBA TV at 730 Eastern. What's wrong with OKC, John? Loses of four straight games.

Is there any reason for concern with them down the final stretch? Well, you have the stats for Paul George here before the shoulder and after the shoulder injury. I mean, he was their best player all season. And they need the best version of Paul George. So it makes you wonder if maybe he should be resting some of these games. I'd rather have him 100% than have him, you know, find this injury all to the playoffs. Yeah, with Paul George, before the shoulder injury, he was shooting 40% from 3, 84% from the free throw line, and 40% on mid-range shots. After the shoulder injury, he's shooting only 33% from 3, 79% from the free throw line, and 70% and 32% from mid-range.

So the numbers are down. It's a small sample size, but I am a little bit concerned. I think this could be more than just a cold streak after just this ridiculous shooting display that he was putting on prior to that. There was one instance in a game, I believe last week where he was running through a screen

and got hit on that left shoulder. And he just basically stopped in place and held his shoulder. And you can tell something's up. He's not totally healthy out there. And I remember a couple years ago on JJ Reddick's podcast, either when he was us or, you know,

maybe the pot he did before with the vertical. I remember him talking to Kyle Corver, and he said, like, anytime you have a minor injury, whether it's to your feet or to your upper body, it can impact your shot. And I wonder if that's what's happening right now with Paul George,

where the numbers are just down across the board from every zone, every range. That's concerning. They need them. Yeah. And the thing about it too with OKC is like they have so few guys who shoot. Like,

he's like one of the only guys who shoots the ball. So if he's not shooting well, there ain't much force- spacing at all at that point. Yeah, and with Paul George, I mean, the thing about the Thunder in the past, you know, three or so years is, oh, you know, everything goes through Westbrook. You know, Westbrook is the reason why everything works. Well, this year, Paul George has taken up that mantle. And when he's kind of out of sorts, when he can't be, you know, an effective two-way player and just basically be their best player on both sides of the floor, then the system collapses. that that's kind of why their defense has kind of fallen off and and it's also part of playing

one of the hardest record or one of the hardest remaining schedules in the league but you know yeah this this paul george thing is is truly concerning heading into the most important stretch of the season for them i'm looking forward to seeing on the other side of toronto can make a push for that one seed down the final stretch of the regular season if you want to watch every NBA game subscribe to NBA League pass on NBA.com or your local cable or satellite provider. Danny, you mentioned OKC's really difficult schedule down the stretch. For me, that's what I keep looking at for all of these teams, whether it's Golden State versus Denver up top.

In the Western Conference, Denver has a much harder remaining scheduled than Golden State. So I think Golden State has a far better chance at grabbing that one seed, which means the team that falls into that eight seed probably isn't, it probably isn't going to have that long of a playoff run. So every game down this final stretch is must watch. And with OKC, their defense has not been elite like it was early in the season. Paul George has not been the MVP candidate since returning from the shoulder injury. And I'm not sure how long Russell Westbrook can sustain the hot shooting.

And I do wonder if they're falling, which team will be the one that rises? Is there any team that you've seen in recent weeks or months that you view as the team is going to push up for that five seed? Well, KOC, I'm looking at the standings right now, and there's a possibility Houston falls to four. Can you imagine being in that 6-7 range and you have Golden State and Houston on the other side of the bracket? And those two teams I play in the second round have a bloodbath of a series. And then you're sitting in the Western Conference finals. Like that 2, 3, 6, 7, that's the money range right now to get into that side of the bracket. And it's so close, who knows what's going to happen.

But to me, it's like what Dennis is going to about schedule. The team that gets into that bracket could have a lot of room to run. run, rather actual quality of their team. Are you guys buying San Antonio's improved defense over recent months? I mean, just as recently as like a month ago, it was already back in shambles.

So like, it is kind of hard to, hard to tell. But I mean, the thing about the Spurs is that after a while, these players get familiar with each other and the help, the trust is there. And they're not,

they're not operating with any like elite defensive talent. It's all just effort and a lot of reading the situation and a lot of help defense. So, I mean, if they can keep that up, it's fine. But it's just like they're not really working with a high ceiling there. So here's my concern of San Antonio. If you look at their schedule, on that rodeo road trip, their defense collapsed, right? Because those are all road games. And now they've even been better because they're playing at home mostly over the last couple weeks. And if you break down their net ratings, really it's their bench that's winning games. So a team that's learning with its bench at home,

doesn't really strike me as a profile of a, you know, a serious playoff contender. We'll see, though. I'm not a blue, believe from the Spurs this year. Maybe they'll be great.

I don't know. Yeah, I think tonight's game against Houston for them will be, will be pretty telling. They've won a lot of huge games in recent weeks to be fair. It beat OKC, Denver, Milwaukee,

Portland, Golden State. Those are all home games. Yeah, yeah. And then with Houston, it's on the road. It'll be more of a playoff atmosphere with the road environment.

And obviously, Houston is clicking on all cylinders as well. So I look forward to seeing San Antonio can do what they've done in the past that Rocket's defense and really just disable it. I do wonder how sustainable their defense is because they've been far different on the home

versus road. It's all we have time for it today though guys. Thanks, John. Thanks, Danny. Of course. Yeah, it's fun. And thank you for listening to the Ringer B.A show. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes and share the podcast with your friends if you like it. Be sure to check out the ringer.com to Dan Devine wrote about the

Sixers ascending and we dropped the early version of our draft guide. As mentioned earlier, John also wrote about Cam Renish and R.J. Barrett. Thanks again. Peace out. Have a good weekend.