The Ringer NBA Show - Ja Morant’s Ongoing Absence, Breaking Down the MVP Race, and ‘Snowfall’ | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to give their reactions to Monday’s Memphis Grizzlies–Dallas Mavericks matchup before discussing Ja Morant’s ongoing absence from the Grizzlies and how the team has responded (2:00). Along the way, they talk about the injuries to Kyrie Irving and Luka Doncic and debate whether the All-Star pairing is working out (17:00). Next, they touch on this year’s tight MVP race and make the argument for each candidate’s chances at winning the award (38:00). Later, Kerm joins the guys for ‘Snowfall’ talk (54:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's no secret the NFL has a problem with race. Think Colin Kaepernick. Think Brian Flores. But this isn't a new problem. It's one that started as far back as the 1930s, with a ban on black players in the NFL, with a past that informs the present. Blackballed is a new miniseries podcast from The Ringer,

about the four men who broke the color barrier in football. I'm your host, Chelsea Stark Jones. BlackBald is dropping soon on the Ringer NFL feed. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there, Real Ones after dark. Y'all know what it is. Y'all, y'all've been here in the postseason.

It ain't the postseason yet. There's going to be a little, a little preview to what's going to happen in the postseason. Roger, how are you doing, bud? What's going on? I'm good, man. I was in Houston this weekend. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't lie to the, don't lie.

Don't lie yet. Tell us how you're doing. Well, not great. I'm going to keep it a buck. I got it at 2 a.m. last night from fucking Houston. you know, I was up at six with the kids taking them to school, running around all day. And, you know, like, if it was a decent game, maybe.

But I hit you in the middle of the, I'm not, I don't want to watch that. Oh, my, I'm not here for that. Let's set it up real quick. Let me set it up for the people. I'm not here for that. Let me set it up for the people, rah, rah, rah, let me set it up for the people.

We're talking to you guys after the Maverick. Memphis Grizzlies game, which I am assuming that the Grizzlies won because we started it off before the final buzzer because it looked in hand for Memphis. Dylan Brooks was ball and we'll get the stat line for you in the info and the info side. But what you guys need to know is this was a game that didn't, a game between the Memphis Grizzlies and the Mavs that didn't feature Kyrie Irving, Lukadansh, or John Morant. I'm a Assuming the leading score was Dylan Brooks. Raja, of the seven and a half minutes that you watched,

what did you see from the game? I saw, what did I see? Listen, you know, I did have a thought because I, like, full disclosure, I watched very little of that shit. I was immediately not interested. What struck me was just the lack of size without, you know, Stephen Adams in there and any real big. from the Mavs at points.

And there were just boys like, this isn't like, I guess like an overarching necessarily thought about the NBA right now. But this particular game, it made me think like, damn, bro, like I could have been in there like boarding in this NBA. What position do you think you could be in this day's NBA?

Could you play the four in this, in this NBA? I mean, old Raj might have played the four for a few minutes. Probably not. But I would have been way more of a three. than I ever was. I was mostly a two. And so, you know, I would drop down and play the three, but I'm a solid three in today's NBA. And I was, I was never known for boarding because it

didn't make a lot of sense to expend the energy to go down there and try to jump over seven footers. Like, I wasn't getting them anyway. But I was watching that game like, oh, there might be some, there was some opportunity to get in the paint. You know why? The key word in that is there were no seven footers on the floor. There were none. So yeah, there were none. And it's crazy now because like it's really, and we'll probably get to this.

This might be the vibes portion of this podcast, but we've really gotten to the point where it's an equal opportunity for that rebound now. You get it if you, wherever you want, if you just put it in a solid effort, get your butt into somebody's chest, box out. You could get a board. You can get like five in this today's NBA. Yeah, I think that two rebounds per game, in today's NBA is a safe adjustment.

One and a half, one and a half, let's say. It's a safe, scaled adjustment just because of the lack of size and, and, you know, physicality maybe. I mean, now, granted, you're playing teams like Milwaukee and, you know, you got Joelle and Beating Yokic. And, like, there are some teams out there. Obviously, these were two teams that just lacked that tonight. But so maybe one and a half is a lot.

but maybe like a half a board to three quarters of a board, I think they're there to be. All right, let's get to the shit real quick. The biggest story of the game tonight had nothing to do with the game. It was the, it was a, I think it was a first half report by Adrian Wojornowski that Jaum Morant has entered a counseling facility in Florida. Honestly, no more than that, no more information than that. that. I think it was Tim McMahon, friend of the show, and Woj, who reported that. We don't know all the information, but I do want to ask questions to you, Roger, from a team

perspective when a guy goes out in this way, and not just under the circumstances that Jaya has gone through, but also I'm thinking about here on the West Coast with Golden State with Andrew Wiggins, who hasn't been with a team for weeks now, for personal issues. How do you, as a team, play without a vital piece that you don't know when he or they are coming back. How do the Memphis Grizzlies go from here with Jha? Now you don't, with these types of things, you never know when they're going to come back because they have to heal and figure out their stuff on their own time.

So how do you deal with that? I mean, well, there are multiple ways to deal with it, but only one actually would work. And that would be to just put said player out of mind in terms of on the court and what they mean. to you. Now, clearly they're in your mind, they're in your hearts. You want to make sure your brothers are good and whatever they have going on, you know, to the degree that you can help them and be a part of their world, you want to do that. But in terms of on the court and what

they mean to you, it's just old cliche next man up mentality. We have a job to do, whether said player is here or he's not, that doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Like we have jobs to do. And so if that means that, you know, Raja, Logan and Kai and Kerm all have to pick it up in our respective areas, then that's what we do. If it means someone gets an opportunity off the bench that has been sitting there and biding their time and putting in the work behind the scenes, but hasn't really got the chance to step out on the floor. I mean, that's how careers are made, right? That's how I made my career. I mean, I was sitting there watching games. I was only given an opportunity on a 10-day because Pepe Sanchez was not L-Ele.

eligible for the Sixers playoff roster via trade and due to his trade date reacquisition. And so, you know, is there a guy sitting over there like that that gets his name called and is able to step in and produce? And whether they can or can't, that's the only mentality you can have. It's got to be business as usual. Next man up, whoever's in the building and whoever's playing. We have to figure out how to get it done. One of those guys that has done that.

And it's interesting because we talk. talked about this person at length for like last week about how he probably could have, you know, messed up what's going on with the Memphis Grizzlies. It's one Dylan Brooks. And I don't know if I need to apologize necessarily because I believe everything I said last week. But I do have to commend the man for playing as good as he's played since the Draymond Green incident. And he's really become weirdly the heartbeat of that team right now. Like I was watching the game tonight. He's hit shots. He's, he's, they were following. He's hit. He's hit. shots he's playing great defense and they're following his lead right right what

have you seen from him and is this sustainable because I think that the the grizzlies are uniquely positioned because they are a team that has historically played great without john the lineup now the record has been different this season that it has last year last year there were a lot more successful when job was out of the lineup but they the point being they know how to play without job how much will that suit them for however long he is absent for. First of all, let's address the Dylan Brooks, Draymond. I thought we were pretty fair.

Like, I mean, at least we tried to be. Look, Dylan Brooks, I said Draymond missed on how much BBIQ he had. Like, clearly, you know, that was over the top. Having said that, you know, Dremont's an accomplished player. And until you achieve something, you shouldn't really be popping off at the mouth. Now, I will echo what you're saying, like since then, he's played great. He's been playing well since he's been in the league, and he's played great, and he took the approach that, you know, it was them against the world in Memphis,

and they bust that ass. And so, like, I have respect for that. Whether it's sustainable or not, I guess it depends on what the goal is, right? If we're talking about trying to win a championship without John Morant, the answer is no. you know, if we're talking about winning enough games to stay afloat and maybe keep position until we get job back and Jod's coming back in a few weeks, then yes. Like, I think they've given you enough sample size now over the last two years to know that they figure out ways to win.

I think, you know, that speaks to the culture there in Memphis. It speaks to, you know, not just the players, but the coaches, the general manager, the owner. I think, you know, they've established a real solid culture that allows you to kind of understand the absences of Jop, but I don't believe that without him, they're going to have any legs as a playoff team, if that makes sense. But, you know, as a guy who, you know, wasn't a box office like draw, but played off a sheer heart and passion and, you know, wasn't given the benefit of the doubt a lot of times for being very good in certain scenarios. Like, I always

pull for a Dylan Brooks to, to continue to do with. he's doing. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've been pretty impressed with Dylan Brooks. At least I was tonight. And even after his response, you know, when the Warriors came to town, like, I was like, that's all right, I respect it. I don't like what you do, but I respect it. You back up your words. You know. Right. And but I guess the bigger question is, right? And you made a good point on, is it going to be sustainable in a championship? Obviously not. But right now, you know,

You want to write the ship. You want to make sure that it's just going steady right now. You know, like, you don't want to, you don't want to fall in the standards. You just want to maintain at this point. But if or when Jodd does come back, how do you foresee that integration process coming back into the fall, him coming back into the fold? Like, I think, I'm of the mind that if he is good, I think the Memphis Grizzly will be fine because they know how to play with him already because he's literally the center of their universe. Right. But do you see, is there, is there any going to be an integration?

process and getting him back in. I guess it just depends on how he ramps up. I don't think it's going to be hard for them to hitch their stride again as a team. Like Jaws been there long enough. They played for stretches without job before. Everyone knows how to kind of, you know, pick up a little bit of slack when he's out. And conversely, they know how to kind of give that slack back when he shows up, right? And it's been like that for a couple years for injuries and different and various reasons. And you've seen them really not skip a beat when he's in and out of the lineup, right? So I don't know that. that that necessarily changes. But what worries me about the reintegration of Jock?

I don't know if they have 12, 13, 11 games left. But it's getting late. If this becomes an extended absence, if we're talking about another week, week and a half, 10 days, two weeks, what that does in specific situations. And specifically late game, what we're trying to accomplish,

who's going to have the ball? and I know I get it. Everyone in the world is like, well, what do you mean? Like John Moran's got to have the ball. Yeah, I get it. John Moran should have the ball. But when you're a dude who's been doing heavy lifting for the last three or four weeks,

you guys are winning games, it doesn't take, it doesn't necessarily take you believing that you're a better option than John Morant to screw that little chemistry up at the end of the game. It just takes you thinking just a little bit more than you should that I should take this shot

instead of kicking it. You know what I mean? Like it's a fractional thing. It just, all you got to do is second guess whether Josh should have that ball or not. Well, you guys are always about rhythm. Right? Like every, every NBA player, any athlete is all about rhythm. And I think that's what you're alluding to, right?

Is that like, even if the, even if the person, the teammates have the best intentions, just the rhythm will be off when he comes back. If you, right. So for instance, I mean, if let's, let's just say John Morant's brought the ball down the court, right? Like, he's brought it down. He's kicked it. Like, let's say he's made some sort of shallow cut through

or a deep cut through to the opposite corner. Ball gets reversed. There's, like, a backdoor cut on the wing, and then, you know, Jaws coming out of the corner, right? And we're playing like that. And let's say that person at the top's got it. And he just gets a little sticky with the ball. Instead of swinging it to Jha,

like it's someone who's been used to having it in his hands a little bit when Jod's absent. Just that little stickiness, that one, 1,000 to 1,000, that's enough to become super important in a playoff game. It doesn't sound like much, but when you're dealing with fractions of seconds to get shots off, like, that's sometimes all it takes for someone to fall out of sync and for the end of that game to get a little sloppy. And so that's kind of what I worry about, like if I have to worry about something with Jock coming back, if he's going to miss much more time than he already has.

Well, I think that when you, my concern is it is, we all know that the regular season is totally different from the postseason. And I've seen so many different players and I'm not specifically talking about, Joe, because I think he's at another tier of player than the one I'm talking about. But I think it still applies in that when you drop anyone into a postseason atmosphere, it's already an adjustment on top of the adjustment that you're making after an extended absence. And I think that's what I'm more concerned about is say he comes first, I don't know, they draw a bad matchup. I don't know who they draw. Maybe they draw the, it's a three-six matchup, and they fall, and they draw maybe the clippers or a team that, or the warriors or somebody that they can, that has their number that can beat them. And you put jaw right in there and all the chemistry issues that you talk about, the third-eye crisis the Lakers. Immediately.

Of course. Yeah. immediately. And that's the Lakers without LeBron or AD on the floor. They still, the Laker fans got confidence right now. But anyway, I digress. My concern is if you put him in that atmosphere where they're trying to figure things out on the fly with a team that matches up well against them. That's my concern, Ron. Well, it's a valid concern. And it's, it becomes even scarier when you're talking about a Western conference that when we spoke last, we both kind of said like that's, you know, anybody in that Western conference should feel like they could beat anyone else, right?

Like that, that's just how closely packed, what is that, three through 10 is maybe? So, like, when you're talking about, you know, teams that don't have fear and, and, and aren't that far behind you in terms of pure production, like, yeah, that's a big concern. And so, you know, like, it is what it is at this point. Like, John's not there. I do believe that dropping him back in, if you give him, you know, seven games, six, seven, eight games prior to the playoffs, I think you're okay. I do. I think you're fine having, you know, that lineup for as long as you've had it.

I think they're okay. The question is if that lingers. And I don't know what type of situation. it is, what kind of facilities at, or what the prognosis is in terms of treatment and his return to play, but you start getting

into like, he's going to show up for the playoffs, and now I think you're really hitting like some dangerous, some dangerous waters. Logan's all, man. I can tell Logan Cano, man. This is a shame because he's one of the smartest, brightest guys I know, but I'll rip him. Straight like that.

Oh, this man, like, I'm learning reverse monopolist and now I want to go back to the other end of this

matchup with the Dallas Mavericks both Luca and Kyrie was out Luca has a thigh injury

Kyrie has a foot injury no timetable on when they're both coming back but we talk about

the integration process how do they how do Luca and Kyrie integrate into the fold

as a playoff team on the fly when they're injured. Now, I think that, and correct me if I'm wrong, Ra, and I know you're, you, you, you, you, you will do that. How do you feel, I think, I think that the Luca, I think that the Luca, Kyrie partnership might be easier to solve than maybe the Memphis Grizzlies partnership with Ja and him coming back into the fault, simply because I think Luca, Luca and Kyrie, the offices they set up is very simplistic, and it's basically get,

Both of them are, give me the ball and let's figure it out. Let's see what happens. I think as long as they're healthy, they can reintegrate into the process a lot easier. Am I wrong in thinking that? Or are the Mavs doomed? I disagree. I disagree. There we go.

I disagree. I think that, well, yes, their offense is very simple, and it's basically you go, I go, I go. In terms of Luca and Kyrie, they hadn't had that figure. out yet. Like, they haven't worked through all of the bugs and the kinks and got that thing working seamlessly yet. So, you know, like one, two games, I'm not really worried about it. But again, extended absences for those two versus the extended absence for Jha. I have more faith that the Grizzlies having way more of a track record of doing it and understanding what it takes. And quite frankly, you know, being being more successful at it. I think they have a better chance

of hitting their stride again, then the MAVs do. And, you know, for a number of reasons, I mean, look, Memphis, if Jah were to come back and Jah is off on any given night, I mean, you still have Bain, they can get buckets,

you still have Dylan Brooks that gets buckets. You still have Jaron Jackson that can get buckets. Like, there are still a lot of pieces. Tias Jones can get you some buckets. Tias Jones. Yeah, any number of people that can pop off and get you buckets. And so, you know, I saw the Mavs the night,

it was interesting seeing the young, the young, what was it, Jaden Hardy led him in scoring, and then the kid Green, Josh Green, was, had like 23. Like that was cool to see, but like, outside of Kyrie and Luca and maybe Christian Wood, I mean, I'm a Tim Hardaway fan, he's from the crib. Like, Tim Jr. is my guy, but, like, that's, I, if one of those dudes is off, we got a problem. Yeah, that's true. Right?

So, like, I think for a lot of reasons, I think I would go with Memphis being able to kind of pop pop back into forum quicker than Dallas. So when you're like, if you're the Mavericks and you see those two, like how do those guys like figure it out on the fly then if they, if they can't like we're not talking about easier and then. You're right. You've definitely proved me wrong.

Former NBA player who knows a ton more than I do about the sport. But how do you even try to do that? Is it, yo man, I'm coming like Kyrie is like, yo, Luca, I'm coming to the career. We're going to like bond and look over. you know, sets and stuff together, or is it like, how do you, I don't think that's going to happen necessarily, but like, how do you do that? These are, these are two guys that want to win at a high level and both at least have the goal of a championship, right? And they have to do this on the fly.

This is the hand that they were dealt. So what, what do they do to, how do you build that on core chemistry while not being on the court? Is it even possible? I mean, it's possible in part, but there's nothing that can, replicate like live game pressure and and scenarios in a way that would give you a look at a real live look at how we're going to act when this happens right you just can't simulate it so I would imagine there are a lot of combos there's probably some film you know there's a lot of stuff when you're traveling with the team um that's happening with two dudes and a glass of wine sitting on the flight, like, just kind of chopping it up.

You know what I mean? Maybe with an iPad, like watching some film together and just talking out. I'm sure there's a lot of that going on, at least I hope there is. But the reality is those two just need time together, like in real games on the court to figure it out. They were already kind of behind the eight ball because of, you know, when the trade took place. and what was left in the season. But having people in and out of the lineup like this late is tough. And they play an interesting style of ball.

And this is like side note, but I've seen it happen in a lot. And I've said this on the pot. I'm sure that there are some people that agree. There's some that disagree. Like, you know, the casuals that just love stars will disagree with me. People who know, no, no. Like, it's all right.

Like, shit, fuck it. I mean, you think, all right, you took Luca out. And while the two names I just said didn't have 40, like one of them had 28, one of them had 23, they average like nine and seven points a game. But in the absence of Kyrie and Luca and Christian Wood with some shots available, those young bucks got some buckets, right? Like, look at the bull in Brooklyn right now. Why do I with McHale Bridges?

Look at McHale Bridges. So Cal Bridges, I hear ball in front of the show. Like ball, averaging more since he's been in Brooklyn than some names. I saw a stat the other day and forgive me for not having them like right here in front of me. Like my prep wasn't great. I didn't know I was going here. But you'd be surprised. They were names like Anthony Davis and names like that.

He's averaging more points per game since he's been in Brooklyn than some really big stars in the NBA. And because there's a void and there's a need for scoring, right? And so I find that really fascinating. I always do. And I try to tell people, like, look, I'm not telling you that some of these dudes who aren't stars in the NBA given the opportunity. Just so people know, I got the stat.

I'm on basketball reference right now. Go ahead. In 13 games since the trade, McKell Bridges is averaging 25 points, 4.8 rebounds, and 2.8 assist. Right? Just so you guys know. Yeah.

It's like, that's Kobe-esque. He is cooking, man. Oh, wait, hold on, hold on. I didn't even get the, hold on. I didn't even get the percentages. He's shooting 50% from the field, 47% from three. Put some respect on McHale Pritz's name.

Put some respect on that. Now, I'm not telling you that's going to continue. I'm not telling you his career trajectory is that. I'm just saying that like. Roger, let the vibes happen, bro. Just let the vibes go. No, but this is a buck. This is because this is what separates stars

from superstars, from role players, from guys who are journey. It's what separate. It's your ability. to do that consistently. You know what I mean? It's your ability to do that. Like, we could all do that.

Like, we can all pop up and have 38 in a game and get hot and string off a week and a week and a half of, yo, yo, he's averaging 25 over the last seven games. But it's being able to do that over the course of a season, which is the separator. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, it's not only that, though. And I know we've gone off on a tangent,

but, you know, it's ruins after dark. This is what we do. But the fact is, when you take, talk about those other guys, the Jaws, the steffs, the LeBrons, the Kevin Durants, the Janice's, the Yokic's, the Embedes, the Jason Tatum's. When you talk about those guys, it's not just scoring the basketball, man. You have to be the, like, you have to be the base of the organization. You have to be able to affect the game, even if you score 22 on six or 22 shooting, but you had 15 rebounds and eight assists, right? And that's your bad game.

You know, that's what it has to be. And it has to, you have to be a consistent threat. There's a, there's a major difference between stars and non-stars. Because everybody can ball, but there's still levels in the NBA. No, without question. Like, of course, they're levels. And yeah, there's a lot that goes into being a superstar. Like, I'm not off the court, on the court.

My point is that, like, and I've said this before, like, when people ask me, why is, you know, like, hey, we're going to throw. I don't know, 30 million a year at this guy because he was in Charlotte averaging 19 points a game. And I'm like, yeah, they suck. And nobody could score. So, of course, he was averaging 19 points a game. You put him on a good team.

He averages 10. You know what I mean? But NBA players, NBA teams, and an NBA game, there's a certain amount of points that have to get scored. No matter who's on a court. Now you have opened up a little, a low-low rabbit hole right now, because I got questions.

So when, what you speak of, right, basically great score on a bad team, which is what we've seen time and time again. Great score on a bad team, get the bag. And shout out to y'all for getting the bag. I got no beef.

But when that happens, there's always those one or two guys, and now I'm just spitballing because I just have these questions. There's always every year that guy that gets the bag, that you're like, how did he get the bag?

I definitely watch League Pass, and I did not see. see, like, I know he scored a lot, but I also seen a lot of games where they lost by Dub. How does that always happen every year, Roger? Tell, riddle me that. Riddle you that. Well, I mean, it's a hard thing to quantify, it's a hard thing to, like, like, it's

a hard thing to decipher whether or not that is a ability, an ability to score the ball that will translate on my team, which is a good championship level team. And I have maybe a number one already. and I'm looking for him to be the number two. And I think that that's not a volume score or a score that just had more opportunity and therefore scored more points. I think that translates. It's a hard thing to decipher between that or, hey, man, he's doing that because he's

just the best score on a bad team and points have to get scored. And so you're going to see people miss on that. It's not an exact science. Like it's, you know, sometimes that guy winds up being a player that can play on a championship level and be really productive. The other times, and we've seen a lot of them, that player goes somewhere else. They get the bag and they're never that again because, you know, you're now asking them to play for something rather like in terms of championships rather than for something in terms of points or contracts. Or contracts. And so like, while I don't begrudge anyone getting paid or anything like that, but that's, you know, that's what people.

people are doing behind those closed doors. That's what gets people fired. That's what gets people execs of the year. Those are hard conversations. And then on the flip side of that, finding the guy that doesn't score a lot of points. Like, let's use, I'll use me for example, and I really do this, but I'll use me for example. Like, I hadn't scored any points in Phoenix, I mean in Philly. Like none. I was averaging like two points a game, right? Then I went to Dallas and I started half the games and I sat half the games and I scored probably like five points a game. And then I went to Utah. and I was averaging, I don't know, maybe 10 points a game. But figuring out that a piece like me was going to help a Phoenix Sun's team is less of a credit to me

and more of a credit to the people who saw it in me in Phoenix. No one, I didn't shoot. Did you see it in yourself? Did you see it in yourself? Well, as a player, you always have confidence, right? Like I think I'm, I think I can hoop. I think, you know, I want to bite at that apple. But you have to, you have to understand when you looked at my analytics, like I probably shot a decent percent from three.

but I wasn't shooting a lot of threes. So you don't know if that's just because I don't get the volume up or if it's because I'm a good shooter, right? Like defensively, I was probably good, but there are some things that you would have had to like forecast as someone sitting there in a suit and say, hey, we think that that, even though it doesn't score a lot of points

and isn't super flashy, we think that that's something that when we get it, it's going to get better. And that's a hard thing to do because I got better when I went there. Like I was up to 15 points a game and first team all defense and 15 points. Like, well, I could tell you here like, yeah, man, I think I was confident. I could do that. I don't know a whole lot of general managers that were looking at me like that.

You know? Yeah. No, but I think like it's also, I think you're a case of this. And I see it around the league. There are just guys that get the right cosines that they earned. Like I would say in your case, you didn't make the spurs, but you still got that cosign, you know, like the Spurs fuck with you enough. And that trickled

around the league. And you see certain guys like that, right, where you know, they may not they may not, like, you may not be stateline darlings, but they always seem to be on these teams because they have a reputation around the league

about they were these types of players, they were these types of players now. They always get paid, not necessarily, but they win a lot of the time and they wind up being integrated into the fabric a lot more than those guys that, you know, just score hell of much and get their bag. Yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, you always need guys that, you know, I always, as I bounced around from team to team,

and there were plenty of people that were more talented than me and maybe even more talented than like some of my teammates that were playing roles on some of these teams. And like friends, close friends and family would ask me what was up with said player. and I'd be like, yo, just too good for his own good, you know, but not good enough. So they could never really figure out. And I've said this before, anyone who listens regularly would know. Like, they're just too good to think that they should play that role. And they're just not good enough to get the role that they think they should have.

And so it puts them in this really weird spot that lets somebody like me come in and say, listen, I have no disillusions that I'm supposed to play that role, but I'll gladly play that one. And you get, you get snake for your job like that, because there are boys out there that are hungry. Right. We all know somebody that we've all worked around somebody like that, Ra. Right. And that's what it is. And it's like, look, but I mean, so anyway, let's go all the way back to the Dallas Mavericks.

because I would in general circumstances tell you that if Kyrie and Luca were out, let's say midseason, somewhere where there was a lot of meat left on the bone, and some of these young players were able to take control of the offense in a way that showed Luca, Kyrie, J.Kid, and company that they were capable offensively. I think I could make a case for that being ultimately a good thing, long term, right? But because we're sitting here with 12 games left and, you know, Kyrie Luca is still an experiment that needs to be tinkered with. I don't, I think they revert right back to like, yo, young fellas, go stand over there and watch. And ultimately, because they

inherently probably won't trust those other people. Like they've seen what they seen and they're them. They're probably not going to trust them. Not yet. Uh-uh. Absolutely not. And so not when it matters. And so I guess it takes me right back to what I said to you when you ask me about the MAVs or Memphis, if either one of those dudes is off and you don't have somebody, you know, two more guys that can hold you up.

Like, we got a problem. Yeah, that's tough about the Dallas Mavericks, man. It just seems like every, and this is a tough thing about always trying to trade for the star and try and do the, and to cover up the mistakes that you made.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I just really want a, systematic buildup for the Mavericks, right? Like, the reason why this isn't working is because you traded for Kyrie to, I mean, obviously you traded Kyrie because you wanted Kyrie. It's a very talented dude. But on the service, it looks like you traded for him just to get a, when you're deemed

better Jalen Brunson, who you lost for nothing in the offseason. I kind of just wish, like, I don't know, man, I'm going to give the Lakers some credit right now. But, like, I watch their game over the weekend. and I really like the team that they built around. I don't know what it's going to be. You know, I don't know what's, but I do like the team that they're building around AD and LeBron, like Vanderbilt, you know,

Austin Reeves getting some good action. Just, you know, Rui is out here killing it. But they seem like they're building something and building a team aspect from the trade that they got where it seems like the Mavericks are just trying to put a band in on something they didn't do. and I really want better for that team

because it doesn't seem like they're building something right now. They're just covering up past mistakes. Well, I think it's hard to, I mean, I can appreciate that you might feel that way. I think that this is an effort to build. Like we have Luca, we pair him with another bona fide star, and that's our first step. And where you go from here will ultimately determine

whether I feel like you feel or whether I can say, yeah, I was right in the way I felt, which is like, do we continue to do the right things around them in my way of pieces that fit and can help those two get over the hump? And there's a lot of work to be done there. Now, the crazy part about the Mavs, obviously, is that you pulled that, you pulled that off and you don't even know that you got Kyrie locked up. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That is wild. But I do want to give Niko. and Mike Finn and the fellas like, I think that putting

those two together, whether whether you're on the, hey, those two can work side or you're on the, hey, they play similar styles and they can't work side, that's irrelevant. The Mavs clearly feel like they can work. And so if you're talking about building and you've identified two things that

you think work together, get them together, and then now I need to see what the next steps are. So maybe it wasn't a play. Like, you ain't winning this year. Like, I mean, I don't know. I'm sure they think they are, but they're not. Even if they, you know, like, let's say you get out of the Wild Wild West. Yeah. You're not beating whoever's coming out of the East.

So, so. Question, do you think last year's Mavs team is better than this year's Mavs team? Right now, yes. Like, well, all right, let's say this. The team that beat Phoenix in the playoffs is better than the team that I last saw with Luca and Kyrie, yes. Yeah. I agree. But that's and hopefully, and for their sake, hopefully they take a step back to take infinite steps forward.

That's the hope. But it's a big summer for Dallas, dude. It is a huge summer for Dallas in a lot of different ways, man. Like say Kyrie, and Kyrie was like, he's really locked in with Dallas right now. I saw him with the Oak Cliff State Champs hat on. Like, he's really, it seems like he's really in the community right there. But, you know, like, it's. We're in March.

There's a long way to go. Kyrie in March is like, hey, dog, Kyrie and March, you can go off of nothing that Kyrie wears, says, or does in March.

And again, I'm a Kyrie fan, but let's just be clear. Nothing that is worn, said, or done in March by Kyrie should have any stock put in it.

Yes, absolutely. All right, man, let's take a quick break. I'm going to talk a little MVP talk and then some snowtime. Talk.

Hello, Van. This is Logan Murdoch responding to you. You know, I love you. But, dog, why does your voicemail sound like you were recording it from the gates of hell? Questions that need to be answered. And to answer your question, yes, you can rip me. And yes, I am trashed basketball. Who asked you?

And we are back. O.G. Kerm just told us that at the moment the warriors are beating up on your sons. or I was just kicking their ass and quote, the Splash brothers are quote, back on their bullshit. But, you know, we're not going to talk about that right now. We'll see what happens in the morning

and talk about that next episode. But I want to talk some MVP talk. I'm going to give you a list of names that Third Ikeye has put into the chat. We're just going to go and just talk about their MVP case and who ultimately gets it. Let's talk Jason Tatum really quickly. the Celtics are 47 and 21 second in the east what right now at this very moment this march 13th

what is the case for jason tatum to be the NBA MVP at this point in the season i mean he's gotten better every year this is the best year so far um i'd have a better case if they were currently sitting at one in the eastern conference they're not but um he's continued to add to his game he's better around the rim. He's more physical. You know, he's more of a three-level score than he's ever been. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm trying to make a half-hearted attempt because I don't believe Jason Tatum to be the MVP.

So I'm doing my best. Forgive me. I think Jason Tatum is the case of just, you know, we always have that early MVP season, MVP buzz. I think we need to do an act of rule to not talk about the MVP until at least January, because everybody wants to talk about the MVP in the first two months of the season to see what what can happen. But he is an example of you just, you and your team have to sustain it. And it's tough to do that, right?

It's tough to do that with a new coach that they have. It's tough to do it with the inner dynamics that the Celtics have. I think Tatum, I think Tatum is going to win an MVP in his career, though. I think that he's there. I'm with you. I don't think it's easier. Now, somebody who's kind of, it was kind of, was kind of coming up. the rankings right now.

As one, he's led his team to number one in the East after some struggles early in the season. That is one, Yannis, I did a cumbo. At this point, I'm really upset. He didn't play against the Warriors of Chase over the weekend. I was really

upset. I missed my one time to see Yonis this year. That hurts. But anyway, I think he has a more compelling case right now than ever in the season. What do you think about Yanis's case. Janice's case is always

solid, bro. You talk about 31.2, 12 boards and 5.5 assists per game. And he's a defensive monster. Yannis always teams number one in the east for however many years in a row. Yonis is always

right at the top of the list, man. You couldn't go wrong if you said Janus was your MVP. In the last three years, couldn't be wrong. I think Janice is right there in the midst, especially how he's just carried the bucks in the way that it is without Chris Middleton in the lineup. A lot of injuries on that team.

They're still right there in the thick of it for number one in the east and could make good with our prediction of them going to the NBA finals because I think they're right. They can beat anyone. They can beat the Celtics. They can beat the Sixers, who I'm going to talk about right now with another MVP candidate. Mr. Joellen Bede. what do you think of what is his MVP case going into the backstretch of the season raw oh man i didn't realize i was going to be making cases for all these dudes tonight

but i guess joel i would say you know he was knocking on the door last year i thought he had a great case to win MVP last year um the joker was was deserving i'm not taking anything away but i think joel mb had a very strong case for last year um the sixers are an improved bunch i think they're still thin in terms of overall depth, but they're playing great basketball. I think he's leading the league and scoring at 33.3 a game, I'm pretty short. 33 a game, 10 boards, and then, you know, I know people, I've heard a lot of people about what he beat Yokic, and that's one game. But when he got his shot at Yokic, when he got his shot at Yokic, he made his statement for like his MVP.

case and I appreciated that. I'm not telling you that he deserves it because he did that in that one game. I'm saying his overall body of work, the fact that he was right there last year, and when he got his hands on Jokic this year, it wasn't pretty.

So that's his case. You can make, like, you know, we just made Janice's case of why he makes it every year. On the cool, Joellen B. has put out out MVP caliber of years for like the last three or four years where he's And you can make the argument that he probably should have won,

wanted him MVP's. Right. Like, he's one of those guys. Now, we're going to go to the most polarizing name of a bunch. We're going to go with Nicola Yokic. And I want to make my point after we'd make this argument for him. He has, I think, this is how I feel about, there's been a big polarizing discussion about whether Yokch deserves another MVP this season,

spearheaded by front of the show. Kiddrick Perkins, who made a bit of a stinker online. Wow. But Yokic always has the numbers to back up his MVP case. Sure. But another thing that I think that he always has, and I don't want to take anything away from his numbers, because he absolutely has deserved all the MVP's gotten. But one thing that he always tends to get, and I think this is very important in MVP discussions,

he always has the narrative on his side. And what I mean by that is, and I feel like every year, and I feel like every MVP, I'm prefaces by saying every person that wins the MVP deserves it. However, I do think that the ones that do win it have a narrative on their side. Let's take Russell Westbrook, for example, he deserved that MVP. But what did he have all year cooking? He was always in the news for getting that triple double, for getting the triple double record from Oscar Robertson. Always in the news. I think back to 08 with Kobe Bryant,

where was that his best statistical year? No, not necessarily when he won that MVP. But a lot of people were saying, this is an MVP for years prior that he should have gotten, right? And I say all that to say, it seems like no matter what, the narrative is on Nicola Yolokach's side, more than anything, more than the stats,

more than everything. A lot of that has to do with the stats. that he has put out, and he's well deserving of another MVP. But I do think the narrative is on the side. What do you think about those, what do you think about how the MVP is put out? And how do players think about, because there's always seems to be a disconnect between what I think as a media member and what players think who are actually on the floor. What do you think about how we do award our MVPs and how will that affect this Yokic MVP talk?

well I mean look the joker's cold-blooded me like deserving you know of at least deserving of awards for sure like I'm not going to get into whether he should have won or shouldn't have won or so on and so forth but as we stand right now like the numbers that he's putting up and the advanced metrics and all of that like I'm not a true um um analytics hey but like I've heard them like they're they're staggering in some regards like there's some pretty cool stuff that he's doing. I'm not taking anything away from him. I think that when you're talking about a three-peed of an MVP, and you're talking about Larry Bird, Will Chamberlain, and Bill Russell, right? Those are bona fide, like, all-time greats. And I just think we've got to be

careful, like, I don't have an eloquent, like, explanation as to why I think it should go to Joel Embede or I think my favorite is Janice. And the reason I would say my favorite is Janice is because Janice's team is better than both of their teams, right? Like, Janus's team, it's just better than both of their teams. I'm not, and so, you know, but I'm not mad at Yokic being in the mix. again. I mean, he's a phenomenal player. His numbers are great. I think he's a magician with the ball. I don't think he's had, you know, the team success that some of those other guys have had,

and I think that criticism is fair. But that doesn't necessarily mean it precludes you from being in the conversation for winning MVP's if you're that dope. And he is. So he should be right there. He wouldn't be my favorite to win it this year. If he was clear cut, if his team was like the best team in the NBA. And his numbers were just that much better than everyone's. But like, I ain't getting into, I'm just getting into raw numbers, like points, rebounds, assists. We can get into all the analytics.

I just told you. I ain't, I ain't analytic. Like, I'm not analytic owl. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not my, that's not my bag. But you're not, hoorah. I'm not an analytic owl, bro. Like, that's not, I ain't into that bullshit, though.

I miss me with that. But. you know, we're talking about like, you know, he's in that conversation, but I probably go with Janus right now. Because, and you, I think, made a better point than I did. All of the stats and stuff and everything that I put in there and his defensive presence. But he was doing it minus, you know, minus like his sidekick and Chris Middleton for a lot of the year. And so, you know, to have them positioned at West, like I won in the East, I'm sorry, which I think has got the heavier hitters this year.

anyway. I think that's a I think that's more of a body of work, dog, forgive me. Now, when I think about this and just the disconnect, right? Like you were in a locker room, the locker room when Steve Nash won that 06 MVP.

And obviously he was deserving of it. But that goes, that year, if I remember correctly, kind of goes into what I was talking about in, you know, where there was at least a disconnect, right? between a lot of the population of the basketball community and who won the award. What was that like being on the ground level of that actually happening and seeing Steve went in the way that he did?

I think, I don't know if it's a similar environment as to right now. I can't speak to that. But it was a very polarizing award season that year. What was it like being on the ground level for that? I didn't give a shit. I didn't care, man. I was happy for Steve that he won't. We weren't walking around our locker room,

worried about whether Steve won the MVP or didn't win the MVP or whether anyone else. You can't acknowledge there do be players that be like, to us, you all don't know shit or do it or do it. Like you guys don't know. And like, you know, that's why I'm asking. Yeah, no, but we weren't. I mean, I think most dudes on teams

fall into the category of they're never going to win an MVP. So why the hell am I really? concerned about the MVP. I'm trying to feed my family. Make sure that makes, no, straight up. I'm just keeping it a buck. Man, it's what? It's 10, it's 11 o'clock at night. Why I'm going to sit here and bullshit you? I'm trying to feed my family. You know, I'm trying to get a ring if I could get it. I'm trying to make sure that I'm taking care of the business like that's right in front of me. I'm not really tripping off of which one of these dudes you wind up giving the MVP to. It has really no effect on me at all.

And so as Steve went, like, I was happy for my dog. I was, but it wasn't something that I was like, you know, preoccupied with or anything like that. And so, you know, I get it. If I was someone that had been putting up numbers like those guys put up and putting in bodies of work like Kobe and Steve and whoever was in the mix in that year, like, it would have been something that weighed on me probably a little bit. But bigger picture, those dudes were worried about winning championships.

Like, you think Kobe would trade like a championship for another MVP? He would. He would say, bump this MVP, give me another title. Correct. You don't think Steve would say, yo, I cash in both of these MVP right now. Let me get a championship ring. I mean, the year that Kobe won his MVP in the two years of NASP, when they won his MVP, y'all don't want a title.

They didn't, like, Kobe didn't win a title. I'm sure they would have traded that shit for that. That's what I'm saying. So, like, there's bigger picture, you know? And so while, look, we can get caught up and it's always a fun thing to do in the media to kind of beat this down and then everyone, everyone hops on their side. And if I say anything about Yokic, I'm an idiot because I can't appreciate. Like, that's not facts. That's not true.

Like, I appreciate what that man does. Like, you know, like, I just, I see other dudes out there that are in that conversation too. I don't think it's as big of a runaway as people try to make it out to be. And, you know, like, it's just the way. way I feel about it. I think it's a three-headed race. I think it's Janice, Yolkich, and, and, and, and, uh, and, uh, and, and, uh, and Bid right now. And maybe, you know, it'll sort itself out down the stretch of these last 13 games or so. Maybe someone pulls away from the pack. Right now, Janus is my guy. Do you think that, like, a three-game losing streak for Yokic or, like, it will affect anything?

Because that, usually, like, people go in and will say, oh, like, especially, it's like a horse race. You know what I'm saying? Where it's like, oh, he's kind of, kind of, he's kind of lagging right now. to make it is that going to define his whole season like right i hope i hope not i hope it i hope it isn't one of those i don't i hope it's not as trivial as like yo yeah team played three bad games in the last 10 games of the season and so we're going to penalize him look it's a complete body of work man and so like again that's why that's why right now like as as tight as this race is and we can go to all of their stats and 30 points a game and all of that like if it's all that close i'm going with the dude who's got his team in the best position, right?

And did it with maybe less more often than someone else did him. Right now, that's the honest. Yeah. All right. Well, it's Monday. We're obviously looking like he's about to go to sleep. But first, it's time to bring Kiggity Kerm out of the motherfucking cut for some snow talk real quick.

All right. How you doing, Kerm? What's going on, bud? I'm chilling watching Clay Thompson shit on the, uh, the sons right now. It's a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of it. crazy. It's getting a little crazy, Roger. That's all I'm saying. That's unnecessary. Last time I saw Clay Thompson, I was getting mad at him. Me and Ty Bell were sitting there getting mad. He was shooting some wild-ass shots in Memphis.

So I'm glad to hear he's making something like, we were. I was getting salty. I was like, oh, when was this? When was this? In Memphis, man, when they were in Memphis, he was letting a clip off and it just was not like, it was not. That was such a depressing as gay, but like weirdly entertaining, too, though. Like it was like, the warriors kept coming back and I'm like, I want to turn this off so bad. Anyways, what's up? What's up? What we got? What we got this week, Kerr?

What's going on? Let's talk snowfall. You know, we'll keep it brief today. Y'all, y'all have been talking hoops for about an hour now. It's late. So I'm going to ask the real questions. Let's get started. Who's done more for the hood, man?

Leon and Wanda or Barack Obama and Michelle Obama? Keep it a beat. Oh, bro. I don't know. Roger got some, I don't know what Rogers' shit is. I'm going to answer this for the first to see where Rod goes with this. I'm going to go.

At the very least, Leon and Wanda tried a lot harder to get the hood vote than Michelle and Barack at this point, dog. And I don't even blame Michelle and Barack at this point. Because I don't think that they go in to. the Jex at two in the morning and getting into fights to get back into the games. Over street lights. Over street lights. What do you think? What do you think, Roger? I don't know. I just listen. Here's what I know, man. I don't know. But I know that I hope Leon's efforts are rewarded.

I hope I hope in a way that we can all be happy for Leon and we ain't pouring a little something out for either Leon and or Wanda. That's what I hope. I still I still bet he's definitely, he's going out dying this season, but he did have a good episode, though. This was definitely his redemption moment, first half. The way he was talking about him is going on right in front of him. But at the end, we saw him.

He went on like Craig from Friday. You know what I'm saying? He had to brick and everything. He was exact same thing. Exactly. So did this feel like a redemption episode for Leon for you guys? Yeah. Yeah, I think Leon is the resurgence of Leon. I appreciated him

snapping back into mode. You know, sometimes, you know, sometimes you can think, hey, man, I've, I've gotten out of this. I've matured. I've, uh, I've evolved. And something happens.

You like, man, fuck that. And I appreciated that in Leon last episode. Of course that's a Raja Bellass answer. Of course that is. I vehemently disagree. Motherfucking, get show bags and take your ass back to Africa. Okay.

There ain't, bro. All I can. I'm thinking, well, he's sitting on the stoop with his boo-boo over here, because, you know, bro, like, let's be real, Big Dion was doing a lot. He was doing a lot. He was doing a lot, bro. And, like, dog, why I got to deal with this at two in the morning? Also, why am I outside?

There's so many questions. Also, Leon, you got bread. Why are you staying in the Jax, bro? Why? Why? There's so many questions. Take your ass back to Africa. That is all I have to say about that.

No, he didn't redeem himself. Why would he redeem himself? He actually dug himself into a deeper hole, Raja. Yeah, I know, but he wasn't like, okay, that's fair. If I had my, if I had my druthers, I would want him to go back to. But clearly Leon's not doing that, right? Like, we've already established that on the last snowfall talk. So if he ain't going back to Africa, then now what we talk about?

Oh, God. Next question. Agree to disagree, bro. I agree to disagree. What the fuck, dude? What's the fuck? What's the fuck here? Two more questions.

Just a quick hit. Is Kane Hamilton the most menacing character we've seen in the show since Scully? Kane is fire. Also, Kane out here doing double duty, bro, he is Norm Nixon in winning time. Playing basketball, running the Showtime Lakers. And then he is leaving the forum to go to South Central. And he is leading a criminal organization, bro. and it's knocking motherfuckers down.

Bro, there is not a more versatile player in the game than my guy Kane, okay? Amazing line he gave us. Franklin is a hoe, and hoes make money. Beautiful line, beautiful. Phenomenal. Yo, he's great. He's my favorite.

What do you think about Kane, Roger? Who is your favorite? Is he one of your faves? Because I think he does a great job. He's a great actor. No, he is a great actor. He plays a great role and a great character for sure. As for the quote,

Franklin is a hoe and hoes make money. I shed a tear. This is incredible. Whoever wrote this, give him the politzer now. Get him whatever. Golden Globe, everything. It's not up for Oscars,

but give him for that shit for Best Right. It was great. It was awesome. What's the last question? All right. Last question, you know, we got to get it back to Franklin, man.

This simple question, and you can take it from just this episode, you can look at the show as a whole, is Franklin St. a good boss? In this episode, we saw him, you know, attacked a crack game with like a grassroots type of approach, getting his hands dirty, cooking up crack and aiding his pods in the trap house when it was underperforming.

On the flip side, he did burn a dude's face off for insubordination. So, you know, is he a good boss, bad boss? How are we feeling? Go ahead, Roger. I'm very scared to hear your answer on this one, based on what you said last time about the redemption story. No, I'm really conflicted. I'm really conflicted with Franklin at this point, man. I think he's having a character crisis right now. I think he sits right on the on the on the on the like crux of falling apart versus finding himself and trying to get out and increasingly leaning towards falling apart. And so it's hard for me right now because I was a Franklin fan and I still hold on to that somewhere deep down inside. But I don't really love the way he's moving right now. I know that. I know that.

there's a lot that goes into that. I know there are a lot of reasons. It's not an excuse, right? Sometimes it's not an excuse, but it's a reason. So I know there are a lot of reasons, but I can't be, I got to be honest. I don't love the way Franklin's moving right now. Are you talking about Franklin Sade or Russell Westbrook at this point, Roger? Slow me down, though. Slow me down. Slow me down. To answer, answer your question. You saw their offensive. You see offensive efficiency for the clippers with my dog on the court, though? Versus when he's not on the court, look them up. Okay. All right.

So you still doing it. Hey, hey, in like two weeks, he's going to do some sort of, some sort of analytics for Franklin St. shooting two people, three innocent bystanders. That he's going to use the same argument. But did you see the efficiency of how the drugs were being dealt? No, he is not a good boss. The reason why he is not a good boss is why is the shit so divided?

Because he can't keep his people in check. He can't. He is not a good boss. That's why everybody wants to shoot him. That's why everybody wants, that's why he's in the position he's in right now because he's not a good boss. Historically speaking, he has never been a good boss. And now the chickens are coming home to roost. It's over.

He's not a good boss. And it's probably going to, into his demise in this season. All right? No, he's not a good boss. Don't listen to Roger. That's terrible, Roger. Come on. I tapped out five minutes ago, bro.

It's 11 o'clock, man. Wait, listen. All right. Let me just tell you this, bro. You ever been a boss? Me neither. So shut the... Grab it up.

It's a wrap it up. And on that note, that is real ones after dark. Thank you, thank you, Kirk. Thank you, Rob.

Oh, my God. Thank you, Snow Talk. That has been a Monday edition of the real ones after dark. I'm not sure how many more we got left after this one. We'll see all Thursday. talk to y'all soon tap in all the stuff allah peace