The Ringer NBA Show - Jalen Brunson Lands a Nova Knicks-Friendly Extension. Plus, Bronny’s Vegas Debut and Other Summer League First Impressions. | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 13, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos are in Vegas for summer league, and they start by giving their first impressions of Laker draft picks Bronny James and Dalton Knecht. They also discussed Reed Sheppard’s and Cam Whitmore’s impressive performances and what this Rockets young core could look like moving forward. Then they run through a handful of other notable summer league performances. They wrap up by discussing what Jalen Brunson signing a four-year $156.6 million extension means for the Knicks moving forward (31:05). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Tucker Tashjian Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

March Madness may be over, but the action on One Shining Podcast is just heating up, and we will be delivering two episodes a week, Monday and Thursday. And on Mondays, we will have the ringer's very own Jay Kyle Mann to break down basketball and everything beyond with me once a week. And on Thursdays, we will have a jam-packed show full of amazing guests. We've also had some great guests so far, whether it's ESPN's Jay Billis, the icon Bill Walton, or our head honcho Bill Simmons. It's all happening on one shining podcast.

Come join us wherever you listen to podcasts or on the Spotify app now. Hello and welcome to group chat live from the hellscape that is Lost Vegas Summer League. Oh, come on. I am Justin Barrier on this fancy ass set wearing these fancy ass head microphones. That's Bigwas. Yes, sir. Live and in color. That's Rob Mahoney.

Yes, sir. Wow. This is quite the setting here. It's crazy. It's crazy. Every single year, it feels like Summer League gets bigger, better for me anyway. Thank you so much for Justin. But yeah, man, the atmosphere is just incredible.

I thought for that Laker game, we just had an incredible crowd. It was just dope, man. It's just a dope experience. Yeah, I would say act like we've been here before because we have 10 plus times in many cases. That's true. Although I will say, I don't know if this is the typical Summer League experience. I think I've been remarking about this to pretty much everyone who, listen to me at this point.

This does not remind me of the Summer League of Old. In fact, I actually think the crowd was bigger and probably more loud than it was even for Wemby's debut last year, probably because this is a Lakers crowd. They travel to Las Vegas really well. This is Brownie's debut we're referring to. Oh, it's bigger and better now you're saying. I'm saying it's at least bigger. Wow.

I don't know if it's better. I have a tougher time making my way through the concourse. Yeah. But I've also seen some group chat fans. Oh, I love that. I love that. given the wave. I mean, I saw a guy in a KCP jersey.

He's a group chat fan whether he realizes it or not. So where should we start here first? We have a pretty loaded agenda here. We've only seen one day of Las Vegas Summer League and only like, what, two to three to four games at this point. Do you want to start with the Brani debut? Yeah, I feel like that's the most natural place to start here. I'll be honest, by the second quarter, I probably forgot that Brani was out there.

Like, I forgot that I had to track him because he seemed pretty forgettable. Yeah, because it was the Reed Shepherd show. Your damn right. Period. That guy was amazing, honestly. Just obviously a crazy high level of skill. Obviously, he has a nose and an IQ for the game. But for me, what was dope was like he never got sped up.

He just played at his own pace. It looked easy for him out there today. And then, you know, Brownie had some moments where he tried to pressure him up and stuff, pick him up full court towards the end of the game. But that whole, the whole night, it was just. As soon as he got some space, he rise and he fired. It was just amazing, honestly. It was very easy for him.

And I think the fact that he didn't come out here like many guards do and tried to force a ton. I think the Steph Curry comps are a little hyperbolic for obvious reasons. But you can see the evidence of a shooter who understands the impact of his gravity and how much defenses pay attention to him. And he was looking to set guys up. He was finding Cam Whitmore backdoor. He knows how to play in space.

There's a reason why one of these guys was the number three pick. and one of them was number 55. Like, it's not exactly a fair fight. I think there's a few things that tend to jump out to you in a summer league setting, right? The older guys just being dominant in a way that suggests that they shouldn't be here anymore. These guys are too good for Summer League is a pretty established trope. Often physically dominant, right? They just had a couple years in an NBA weight program that puts you miles ahead of a college athlete.

Cam Whitmore, very much that. But Reed Shepard had a poise and a command of the floor in a way that instantly translated. And so I have a very hard time believing that that guy is not going to just be an NBA player, let alone be a pretty good one. He can really cook. Yeah. I think there's going to be questions about who he can shake off the dribble against real pro competition. He's going to have to show that he can do that.

But he's got the moves. He's got the shot to lull people in. I think he's got the sense of the floor to really take advantage of it. And if you have all of that, you're going to be some kind of player. He may not be a star, but he's going to be someone to watch for sure. So obviously, Steph Curry is a little bit redact. ridiculous, but who he kind of remind me of today is Jamal Murray, honestly. I like that.

Just in the sense that... Cross racial. Oh, come on, man. You know what I do up here. But just in the sense that he doesn't need a lot of space to get his shot off. Once he gets a clean look, like, it looks beautiful coming off of his hand. And then they had a couple of plays, of course, the Lakers adjusted as much as you can one might adjust in Summer League.

But like, they started pressuring him further up on the pick and roll, sort of blitzing him even. And then as soon as he saw the defense coming, boom, do it over the top, like four on threes on the other end. Like, that was really something to watch, man. It's also easy for a highly drafted player at Summer League to fall into the trap of wanting to establish himself. You know, like show out and show that you deserved that draft it, right? He really didn't fall into that at all. He just made the right play consistently, got into the paint, draw the defense, and then kicked it out to the open shooter. Like, I hate to say it because it does fall in.

to the white guy trose, but he does play the right way. He is sneaky athletic. And the shot is, dare I say, wet. Yes, the shot is wet. A little wet. He's got a wet Jimmy. I want to see the parts of his game that transcend the racial profile. Because Rechepard, I have been told, is a guy with a lot of electricity to his game. A lot, a lot of razzle-dazzle. A guy who, yes, can make the right play,

but can also just destroy people and in a way that is a little bit surprising and can go a little bit counter to your expectation. So he came out, Boy Scout in game one. I would like to see the other side of each other. I think we saw some of those moments, though. Like, he had that beautiful hesitation at the top of the key where he just left the guy and then made the floater all cash.

Another one where, like, the dude would just psyched himself out for the defense. And then he fell to the ground. Like, he had some nice razzle-dazzle moments. Like, I was thoroughly wowed. Also, I was pretty close to the court. Like I was in one of the lower... Summer League Humblebragg here. I staked out a good seat early.

What can you say? It's very important. I'm a vet. He kind of gave it to Brani a little bit a few times, like a little like, don't shove me sort of like attitude, which you want to see from a guy like that, who is a little undersized, but clearly is going to play with, again, dare I say, grit and determination, you know? If you dare, I suppose. Good hands as well.

Yes. Really good hands. But as far as the undersized goes, that's where you really feel it with Brony out here. just how small he is against this level of competition, and we're not even into the actual NBA yet. Yeah. And the fact that he, because of that, he's going to be pigeonholed into strictly guard roles.

He's point guard size exclusively. And yet he's getting ripped in the backport. Yeah. The handle, I think, is what makes you, like, makes his future feel a little bit precarious outside of his name and the security that comes with that. You just want to see a little bit from him offensively to even get to the Avery Bradley,

Davey-on-Mitchell kind of level. Yeah, getting ripped at half. court not great obviously um i think again we knew the ball handling was was going to be limited at this point in his development o for eight from three also not great is that what you want to see so a guy that size who's not handling it in a super tight way yet and doesn't have the consistent jump shot to get respected even in the corners um as of yet he has a long way to go but i don't think this is a project for next year or the year after. This is like, all right, in three years,

is this guy going to be an NBA rotation guy? There's two years away from being a year away? Yes, is what you're saying? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying for Shula. I don't even mind that kind of gamble, to be honest, with a player and Brani who does have some physical attributes that could pan out. Clearly an athlete.

And has a good sense of when to cut. He does have the feel. He does have the feel. And that's what makes you want to believe. It's not that the tangible things clearly are not there. The intangible stuff is pretty promising. And so if you squint hard enough, you can see a version of a player who can at least get reliable NBA minutes. And that would be a huge win with the 55th pick.

Yeah, that's why I understand why the Avery Bradley jokes kind of took off. But at the very least, I could see where the chalk outline of what he would aspire to be is there because he is small. This is a real short king summer league we're experiencing this far, especially with Rob Dillingham, who I'm sure we'll talk about before. That dude is very small. And the big king, the Zach Edie's not playing as of yet out here in Vegas. big and small store going on? I don't know. I haven't eaten for many hours. It is fucking hot up here.

Anyway. But like, Bronny clearly point guard sized. Yes. Clearly an athlete. Clearly heady in a way that's showing in terms of how he's like moving around in space. But other than that, like, trying to find his path forward, I think it is going to be like hitting the corner threes,

being enough of a defender to stay on the court because that's going to probably be his primary asset. that like, I don't know. So I don't mind the comp so much unless you guys have a better one for him after seeing him, only a little bit of a amount of time. I think he's just got to be looking at guys like Pat Beverly, honestly. Like, he has to be a complete and utter menace. Yeah, well, not asshole.

It doesn't hurt. He needs to be a menace on the ball. And I thought in the second half he did a little bit more of that pressure guys up. Because he's going to be relegated to only guarding point guards, he has to like make that strength ultimately, right? Whereas it's like, all right, man, we got somebody on the ball who's going to make it, make it a nightmare for every team's opposing point guard. And yeah, man, it's like Pat Beverly, Avery Bradley, Norris Cole. Like, I don't know.

Norris Cole. How many more short guys can win in here? Like, these are the guys that come to mine. That's a little bit of a different cop. What's tough for guys in Brani's position, and you can even look at Avery Bradley as an example. Avery Bradley had to go to the, I think it was then the D league. Yes. Work his way up.

to the Celtics, it's very hard to be in that role with that skill set and earn your spot onto the big time NBA roster because you're going to get sent down to now the G League. And to get bumped up, you have to do all the things we're talking about, play the role, play defense. It's increasingly difficult to do with disorganized G League rosters in the same way that a setting like this one is not going to suit Brony. The more organized a team is, the better they're going to be able to make use of what he does and not put him in bad positions that he's going to be able to understand what his lane is.

but he's going to have to go to the G League and prove it. He's going to have to go down and improve, and some of that is going to be creating shots in a way that he's not going to do at the NBA level. But that's what's going to take in some cases to bump your way back up. That's kind of why I like his mindset of saying he has to be a defensive grinder. At the very least, he recognizes that his path is probably as a role play. And so he doesn't have any sort of grandeur visions, which typically affect the guy of his caliber and of his celebrity.

Because frankly, like, the arena was louder than I probably had. have ever heard it. I was in here for Zion. I was here last year for Wembe, but like this was what, a 75% Lakers crowd. And I'm sure it was like a 90% just fascinated with Brani crowd. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. A kid with this level of celebrity playing functionally like like 12th man. Yeah. Trying to aspire to that. Like it's real like YouTuber influencer crashing the MbUA in a way that I have never experienced before. But the guys we've scenes who are sort of that thing, you think about like lamello ball as being a huge

outsized presence, but came in with a ton of talent as a top, like a lottery, high lottery pick. This is totally different. We were walking to the set. Someone wove a mural of Brony James and just hung it up in the arena. I don't think it's sanctioned. I don't know where it came from or who did it.

That's like, you know, Bronny like in animation form. It's great work. Great textile work. I got a picture of it. Okay. We'll share that to Twitter. How is your textile work? Not ideal. No. The crochet game, not strong.

You know, I haven't ascended to knitting levels of whiteness yet. I think that might be ahead of me at some point. That could be a good feature for you, knitting with Reed Shepard. If you can get Reed Shepard in on knitting, I would be all over it. Well, the other guy I kind of want to mention here who kind of took off in this game, Cam Whitmore. Yeah. One of the best athletes I think I might have ever seen live.

He was playing at one point. That's playing. Yeah, that's play where he grabbed the offensive rebound, got on the floor, and then one fell, motion just went back up with the layup. Didn't gather, didn't do anything like that dude is an elite level athlete. And yeah, he was just way stronger than everyone out there today, just pushing guys out the way to jumper look nice. He looked really good. I think he's like setting himself up for some nice rotation minutes next year.

I mean, he has a chance to do something that I don't know that has ever been done before, which is when back-to-back Summer League MVP's. Well, here's the thing. Like, I don't think he was all that impressive in terms of maybe some of the skill work. it's just that he is so clearly a different class of athlete than these 1% are athletes that populate all these summer league rosters. Like, it's just unbelievable. Like the brute force, I was saying to Kyle Mann,

who I was sitting next to you, like I've never actually wanted to like be an NBA player. I never really saw that for myself. Why is that, do you think? Well, I think there was a very slim chance of it ever happening and it happened at an early age where I was confronted with that truth. So I don't have any misgivings about that. But just to like fly around.

Yeah. Must be nice. It seems really cool. Yeah. Yeah. He's a different level of athlete. He's a different level of just in terms of his advancement physically relative to a lot of these prospects. I think you may be poo-pooing his skill level a little too much.

I think he's very skilled relative to this level of competition. He showed that he's an NBA player already. He's just here to work on some things because he had some injuries last season. It's a good time for refinement for him. But he's among the players who are genuinely too good to play at this level. Yeah, and in the bigger picture, I think he, like, I don't know where he fits in in terms of the pecking order of the young core that the rockets have so quickly assembled it feels like since moving on from James Hardin. But, like, I'm excited to see it. Like, I don't know what the shape of the roster ultimately is.

Reese Shepard's shooting ability is going to be a very welcome addition. But I'm excited to watch what the Rockets do, man. Like, they have a lot of young, really cool, exciting pieces. They have so much to figure out, and they just scooped up A.J. Griffin for basically nothing. A guy who showed up out here, and I think a lot of teams should be welcoming a prospect like that as just a good wing flyer. I know he's had some injury problems. I know he's not going to make an all defense team anytime soon. But you could do worse in terms of guys who can actually shoot and attack off the dribble.

Why not take a chance on a guy like that, even if you're Houston who has a lot of guys worth taking chances. I was just going to say, a lot of guys. Too many guys. Might be too many guys. On the one hand, you could argue that we've seen teams like this who have stacked a lot of young talent, be successful in last year in particular, but in recent seasons, as the luminaries of our game are starting to age to the point where 60 games is really the bar. Having basically too deep at every position, I have to imagine is going to lead to regular season results.

Even if the Rockets didn't want that, there's just too much talent up and down this roster. And a lot of it is starting to mature Kim or one of those guys. You can't help but ask yourself, like, is this the prime candidate for a consolidation trade? If only so, like, Reed Sheppard can get minutes. If only so we know what Jalen Green can be, if only so we know, like, whether or not Jabari Smith can play with Shenguna or they should pick one or the other. There's just, like, a lot here. And I can't really see the vision thus far, but clearly they have something.

I think it's an interesting question, though, right? Like, because they got Fred Van Ville to make their team more serious. But now they need minutes for Reed Shepard. like Fred Van Vleet and Reed Shepherd can't really play in the same back court. Like two dudes, nobody over six foot three or whatever. Fred guards bigger than that. He does, but like, I mean, sure. Like, I just wonder when you're doing the Shengoon thing.

Yeah. And now you're playing two really small guards. Like, I wonder if Van Vleet's the guy where it's just like, yo, like, let's send him to a contender, get some picks out of it or whatever. Outlived his usefulness. Sure. Basically. He was there to establish a floor. and just like a personality and a professionalism of that team,

maybe they've gotten past that. And the same way that we've talked about Joe Mazula kind of taking what IMA Adoka built with the Celtics, taking that to another level with his just basic strategies. I don't know that the Rockets are that far along yet. Probably not. I think they are still in a stage where they're figuring out what they want to be. I think Tritiv Van Ville would be a step back, though, right?

From the phase two or phase three thing or whatever. I don't know what phase are on, yeah. But like, it's just accepting a reality where your young guys have to get minutes. You have to see what you ultimately have in these dudes. So, man, they got a lot of interesting things to parse. All of that is true, and the Rockets almost made the play in last year.

And they very easily could have with better health and better luck. So if I'm in their position, I do think they need to try to pick a lane sooner than later. As far as in particular, is Alper and Shangoon going to be kind of your center and your hub of the future or not? And either way, I think honestly, we've seen a lot of evidence to both ends to suggest that it's valid.

And Amman Thompson is the figure in this that makes a lot of those avenues possible. And when you think about how do you put multiple small guards on the floor, maybe the answer is you play a guy at the three who's just a 100th percentile athlete in the NBA who can swing between whatever position you need him to guard. And that Cooper Flagg Zapruder film from the Team USA practices, and Matt Thompson had one of those like, is this guy literally hovering over the court? Because he's that sort of athlete.

They have these athletes up and down the court. We talk about Cam Whitmore. We didn't talk about Tar Easton. Same sort of guy. Like, it's unbelievable the amount of just like the depth of talent. To the point where we talked about this before, they just had to give away a bunch of low first round picks last year because they had too many stacking up. There's no room for it. Just bleeding it.

This is getting to the point of like the Lakers when they had the run of Brandon Ingram, Gendril Russell, and they just stacked like an absurd amount of young guys. Like I think the Rockets low key have kind of rivaled that in terms of just like high draft picks. The Lakers clearly made the move to get rid of damn near every. everybody. So we'll see about the Rockets, though. Do you want to talk about Connect really quickly? Let's. I think he's okay. I'm a little dubious because he seems like less of an athlete than I was expecting, and my bar was already low for that. Kyle Mann and other people, Isaiah Blakely, our producers, tell him, it's more of like a vertical sort of guy.

And you saw that a little bit. He'll dunk on people's heads, get on the boards a little bit. but I don't know it just seems a lot of those guys in L.A. now, especially with Austin Reeves. Again, I don't, I'm literally not doing a bit. They're totally different players. No, there's subtle athletes who don't have like a quick step. But in terms of the roles that they play, like Don't connect as a shooter. No, I know. He's going to be a movement guy for them.

But how much athleticism can you sacrifice around a LeBron James team? If you're doing that at three positions, are you susceptible to a team like, for instance, the Rockets, who might just outrun? I like that he had a little bit more. juice on the ball than I was expecting. Like, he attacked some closeouts pretty aggressively. The shot for whatever reason just wasn't falling today. But he's, and he's bigger than

I thought. Like, he's, I think he's making up for some of the lack of athleticism with size, quite frankly. I think he could get bigger and stronger and, like, guard up in positions. And, like, when you're doing that and you bring his level of, you know, diversity in terms of shooting,

uh, I don't know. I, I kind of liked them. Like, he missed some wide open shots that you would think a quote-to-quote dead-eye shooter would make. But I thought he moved pretty well and he has like NBA size which is like super important obviously. And the shot ultimately did come around. He missed

some open ones but he had five threes in this game. He also is another guy who seems to understand look it's cringe worthy but the pun is going to be made like the connecting type passes. Oh boy. He's got that. He's got the ability to facilitate. He's got the ability

his name's connect four. Let's not. That's pretty good. You know how Paul George changed his number to 13? Maybe you're onto somebody. Yeah. Connect 4. Get with it, Rob. I cannot get behind that.

But he does seem like the kind of guy who, in that mold of shooters that we've seen before, is not just an endpoint guy who's going to throw the shot up. He can be the one who's also dumping off to a big who's rolling to the rim at the same time. That's what makes him exciting, even though he does have these questions about some of the athleticism. I think he has pretty good NBA size, which helps, and we'll help him kind of paper over some of the same. that. But I think the Lakers can get away with a bit of those shortcomings because they have Anthony Davis. And so, yes, LeBron can only do what he can do at this age. Yes, in terms of the supporting talent, it's not a lot of quick burst athleticism with the Lakers roster these days. But it's

looking subtly better. And maybe that's enough, given the fact that they were already, at least a pretty good team to begin with. Max Christie was in the building courtside today. Youth movement in Los Angeles, right? That's right. Wow. Gabe Benson as well. Good to see that he still exists. Where was the Jalen Hood-Chafino? Is he out here? He was there as well. Well, okay. Yeah. I don't know why he's not playing in Summer Lake. He's hurt.

Okay. In fairness, I have all due apologies to Jalen Hood Chapino. Yeah, I mean, on the one hand, the Lakers might play at a pace, not since seen since like the O4 Pistons. On the other hand, Kinect had what we talked about with Reed Shepard, where he did seem to have a certain command of what he was doing. Very decisive in his movements as well. Seems like a heady sort of player.

And wasn't trying to just like completely overwhelm what the Lakers were trying to do offensively. So there's that. He's also 23 years old. And he's as old as Kyra Lewis, who is the number 13 overall pick in 2020, who was playing off the bench for the Rockets. Kyra Lewis has been in the league so long that he has bottomed out and he is now trying to get back into this. Back in, whereas Connect is just starting his journey. Like, that's weird.

I call that the campaign. I mean, Cam found his way. Yeah, he had, he was in Summer League like two or three years ago. And then he, you know, ended up sticking back. So that's all. And Cairo Lewis, you say that he appeared in this game. I am technically aware that he played in this game. Could not tell you a single thing that he did in it, unfortunately.

A lot of those guys on these rosters. Orlando Robinson was there. Moses Brown? A lot of guys. Well, those guys at least do some stuff. And Moses Brown is just a giant man out here. He's huge. Certainly notable.

Any other Summer League first impressions you guys want to get to? Well, you mentioned Rob Dillingham. I feel like we should talk to some about him for Minnesota today. Very skinny and not very tall at all. Not at all. Short King. Here they are. And he didn't feel like.

Was that a king? Not making any long-term proclamations, but two for 12. Did not cover himself in glory in the summer league debut. And he's the kind of player you would think might. A ball dominant, aggressive, really athletic player who can call his own number, basically whenever he wants. You saw a lot of the moves. that will be successful for him, but the finishes were not there.

And I don't know if that's just some game one jitters. Maybe he's just kind of getting his feet wet out here. I don't know what the layoff has been for him in terms of what he's been working on. He didn't look like the guy who would be a high lottery pick. He looked like the guy who is going to need some time to work into this thing, and that's fine. Yeah, and he didn't seem like super quick jitterbug type either, which I was, you know, kind of concerned by. But, yeah, he's lucky that he's been basically put in a situation.

where everybody around him is bigger and more athletic than his average for their position. So because of the size and the collective athleticism that Minnesota can bring the bear, they can kind of hide his deficiencies on defense. But I would have liked to see a little bit more juice for sure on the ball today. He's also in a unique position out here in that the wolves need him to be good. Mike Conley is going to be 37 years old. Monta Morris is gone. Jordan McLaughlin is gone.

They did not really backfill at point guard other than Rob Dillingham. So I'm sure Ant will be handling the ball plenty. Joe Ingalls as a natural and hilarious Kyle Anderson replacement is going to be handling the ball some. You kill Alexander Walker will guard point guards. Yeah. But Deliamb is going to have to play. And he's going to have to be at least pretty good to justify the kind of investment that the wolves have made in him at this point. That was my big question with the strategy behind going up and getting Dillingham.

The wolves obviously paid a pretty big price in order to bring him in. I like the thinking behind it. Because how else were they going to get a guy with his sort of upside? Yeah. And you do sort of start the succession of when Conley ultimately does decide to retire, which at this point might be five years for, who knows, because he seems like... He's immortal. Keep going, exactly.

But I do like the succession plan, right? That's something that makes sense. You can see what they're orchestrating in bringing Dillingham in in the first place. But is he going to be able to contribute not only this year, but even next year. It seems like it's going to be tough. This year seems like a stretch. It does. Yeah.

And there's only one game. It was his debut. you, but Jordan Hawkins, by the way, too good to be here. Too good to be here, but he's also like 150 pounds, let's say. Like, he's a very slight frail guy, and he looked noticeably bigger than Dillingham. Obviously, Hawkins is bigger and longer, but like, he was towering over him at one point. So just in case anyone wasn't aware, Dillingham is short. And just the last thing about Dillingham, it's like, you know, with the Rockets, it's like, okay, can you contribute to a team that's trying to make it past the plan, right?

which is hard enough in itself. On the wolves, these guys are trying to get to the NBA finals. Like, is he going to be a contributor to an NBA finals level team? That seems very far off from right now. Well, they did have... This is a deep cut. We're just into naming some guys' territory. I acknowledge this.

Nadir Heafi. I don't know if you guys watched him today. I did not. 21-year-old French prospect. How much time did you take learning that pronunciation? It didn't take that long. Just do a quick. Quick ask around.

Oh, really? Shout out to Dane Moore of the Dane Moore podcast. He hooked me up on that one. Six one combo guard. Probably should be playing for the French national team right now, is not for some reason. Seems like he had some real juice. Came in, it was just like a lightning,

like a lightning bug player in 14 minutes, 11 points and 5 assists. Had more to him, honestly, than Dillingham did in this game. You don't love to see that when one of those guys is your lottery pick and one of them is a flyer, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as somebody,

somebody's two-way spot by the end of this. Any other guys that jumped out to you on this first day? The people love DJ Burns, predictably. I don't know that NBA scouts will love DJ Burns. Do you love DJ Burns? I mean, I love watching it play. Does he play like you? A little bit, honestly.

Yeah. I see the comp. We're moving at similar paces, that's for sure, especially as I'm getting more and more advanced in my age. I'm moving a lot like DJ Burns. which is to say we're both screen and stand guys. You know, not neither rolling nor popping, just kind of hanging out in our general vicinity after the screen.

But the touch with him is undeniable. The problem is no one is going to be feeding undrafted post guys for possession after possession. And he can't move defensively. And if you can't do that, I don't know where the NBA spot is going to be for you. Your Orlando Magic. Yeah.

Collectively might be too good for Summer League. Yeah, I think we found out what the second apron was for is breaking up the Orlando Magic. your summer league team. These guys cannot be allowed to persist. What do you think about them? I wasn't able to catch that game, but you clocked in. In particular, I find myself, I still just really want Anthony Black to be a thing. I know we've talked about it before, including it last year's Summer League. He just has such a cool game and a lot to offer if the magic can navigate the weirdness of it. And he's still figuring that out himself. I think one of the good signs in this one,

nine free throw attempts. If you have that sort of weird cadence to how you play, learning to weaponize it by drawing fouls is a really important step. And I don't know that he can do that against everybody, but even doing it out here in Summer League feels like a positive development. Is Jet Howard a guy? You fucking shoot. Yeah. I mean, we knew that. He also, I mean, cocked back

a right-handed dunk today in a way that I did not know he had quite that kind of lift to him. Another guy in the Reed Shepherd mold who was driving to pass. And I thought for these shooters, who we all know what they can do, we all know what they sell, we all know what their NBA rosters want of them. For him to come

and also showed that he can set some other guys up, I think is a promising development. Yet another player who probably is not going to be guarding anyone in any notable way anytime soon. But if you can do enough offensively, he can earn minutes. And honestly, that's where the magic are with both these guys, Black and Howard. Can you get on the floor? Can you be a part of the rotation? There's some opportunity there for both of them, given who Orlando is either in a position to lose infragency or has already lost infargency in the case of Ingalls. Now, the subsection of Is he a guy is, I didn't realize he was still a guy, Jared Culver.

Still a guy? Still a guy? Oh, my goodness. We're just remembering some guys. Yeah, he might want to get his pass forward, renewed for sure. It might be done. He's been in the GILA. He's been hanging around the States.

Any prospects you want to bring up? Maybe at the pool or at the tables? No. I came here for Brani and Brony only. In Clutch, we trust. One other guy I have questions about, another guy who's been in the NBA, not a rookie. Amani Bates It's a tough setting for him

Because it's an inefficient score Kind of doing his inefficient scoring thing But I watch him play He definitely still has the pop That got him on Scouts radar Scouts radars in the first place Could he turn eventually Into a budget Karas Levert?

I think something like that Might be possible for him And maybe that's considered a low bar Given where he started At the beginning of his sort of prospect Kind of like high school journey But look he's trying to to work his way into the league. He's logged considerable

G-League time. He spent a little time with the Cavs, but he's a tough guy to place as a role player because he doesn't really have a role-player game. No, he's just a microwave kind of guy. And if he can be good enough at that, he'll find a spot somewhere. He's just trying to level up at the thing that he's good enough at, but has also been kind of holding him back.

So in case the Cavs didn't have enough Carislavert. Yeah. They have a budget one. We have Carislevert at home. Let's flip now to the big NBA news that happened while we were sitting in the stance here. Jalen Brunson signs an extension four years, 156.5 million dollar extension takes them now five years into the future with the New York Knickerbockers. So he takes 113 million less than he could have gotten had he waited until

next offseason. There's a little bit of a discrepancy here where in totality, he could make about the same amount if he signs another max after he gets through this max contract. expect that he will. Yes. Although I guess the flip side of that, if you're playing devil's advocate, would be, you know, it opens him up to injuries or just like age-induced decline. Yeah. The hope would be that he does get another max after he gets that.

All things point to that being the case. But he took on a little bit of risk in order to open up some opportunities with the Nix and in order to like keep the friendship going. Right. Friendship has a cost. And I kind of have to believe, like, this is the fringe benefit or if you're a little bit more cynical, the quid pro quo, of building a team based. based around a group of friends, right?

We'll get you to your boys, but you have to help us make it all work. Well, Was, let me ask you this. The answer is no. I'm not taking a cent less. I'm not asking you. I feel like Waz values our friendship perhaps more than you do.

You know, Bill comes to you, says, I want to keep group chat together, but it's going to cost you $37 million. I mean, here's the thing, though. I think Brunson, as people that brought up, Yeah.

Is making a ton of money off of the court. Yes. By virtue of the fact that he is doing what he's doing for the New York Knickerbockers specifically. It's a big deal. Like all kinds of commercials, all kinds of endorsement deals. And so. Both the hells, perhaps. I think the thinking is one, he's making.

So, okay, people that are cynical about this are like, yo, in the open market, you would have gotten more money, right? But the other part of that, in the open market, you would have gotten more money to be in Charlotte, to be in some other place that isn't New York. And so I think the totality of that has to factor in. And also, I think that this is also a sign that Jalen Brunson believes that Leon Rose and World Wide West and the sort of crew that they got up there at MSG are there to stay. and they're going to be there for the long run. Because if those guys don't have jobs in five years, which I'm not saying they won't. Like all indications of that,

these guys are entrenched over there. Oh, yeah. But if they don't have jobs in five years, who's to say the next guy doesn't be like, Jaylen Brunson is not a max player to me? And then he just doesn't take that money. I think this is a bet that the crew that's in charge right now will be in charge when it's time for him to do his next deal.

And I think that's a pretty safe bet because it feels like they're going to be pretty damn good. for a pretty long time now. It's still a massive concession on Brunson's part. Oh, yeah. Basically unprecedented in terms of a player giving back is the wrong term, but conceding in a negotiation. He's making less than O.G. Annanobie.

Can I give you a comp? Because I've been thinking about this. Clearly not the same sort of circumstance, but I harken back to the heatels taking a little bit less in order to fit in Mike Miller. That was shaving, though. But here's the thing. It was three guys, three friends, essentially being like, we just want. want to come together and we just want to figure this out.

Clearly, like, there are a lot of differences, but there's the same sort of logic where it's like it does seem to be the tradeoff. If we want to be together, then we're going to work with the organization to make it all work financially in math, Matt, Matt. I think some of the differences, Brunson is already right now on one of the single best contracts in the NBA, the best value contracts for a team in the NBA relative to what he produces. Nobody extends that kind of contract anymore.

There's no reason for a player to do it when they can hit the market and make so much more money. The reason it's worth Brunson's while is not just because he gets to hang out with his pals. When he does hit free agency, so he'll have a player option in the final year of this extension, he can opt out, hit free agency with 10 years of experience, make upwards of potentially a projected $80 million at that point. So yes, you are taking a little less guaranteed money with that final year of the deal that you might otherwise get if you hit free agency next season. But you're still able to hit free agency down the line, make a shit ton of money. And in the meantime, do offer the Knicks a little bit relief for doing more or less what you wanted.

I think with people, again, he's making less than OG Ananovi. And if you watch the NBA playoffs last year, somebody who doesn't understand salary cap mechanisms and, you know, aprons and all of that, like to watch the Knicks play and to think what that guy makes more than Jalen Brunson would be insane. Right. So I think it says something about Jalen Brunson and his character. honestly, that he is not sort of beholding to the trappings of NBA superstar of status and stuff like that. He's like taking a more like holistic approach to this.

And I think it's really cool to see. And I think the PR and goodwill from this that he's going to get from Nick's fans is just like, I can't even think of a bigger PR boom. Like it's nuts. Like they might as well start building that statue right freaking out. Yeah, it's insane. We already did Nick's Mount Rushmore. He is just chiseling his own face in with every dollar conceded.

I think we'll see the benefit of this immediately when McHale Bridges signs his extension, whenever that happens. He has two years, I believe, left on his deal. You have to assume this is like a clear step one in order to get him to that point. And so that trade already looks better. Yeah. I know a lot of people had a lot of consternation over the amount of picks. They paid for him because he hasn't made an All-Star.

I think I loved it. I think we all kind of loved it. I'm 100% If you can get McHale Bridges You should get McHale Bridges Especially when you're trying to beat the Boston selves Yes And especially since they didn't give up players

On top of the picks thing I think that is one thing that people tended to forget Like a lot of the other packages that we saw On that level in terms of picks Like for for Donovan Mitchell Including like Lori Markin who ended up being an all-star They didn't give up an actual player in those deals We should say about Bridges though

He was also a guy who was on a below market contract And the Nets were worried That he wouldn't do this very thing Like why would McAle Bridges a player who could get more if he had free agency, ever extend with us, the Brooklyn Nets. And because of that, they traded him because they didn't have the security to know

that they could actually keep him when he hit free agency. The difference with the Nix is he wants to play with these guys, and they all want to play with him. And so maybe the Nix actually can swing that kind of extension, as you're saying. The flip side of it, though, is, does this become more tricky when you ever want to move on from Adonte T. Vincenzo? Some of the guys who aren't on the marquee

who are a part of this Nix, Nova Nix thing, happening here. Like if Josh, if you need Josh Hart's money to make a trade work to get whomever down the road, do you not do that because you have to keep the friends together. They have a literal podcast together. So maybe we actually have like actual experience and insight into this. I mean, half the roster are those guys. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, Julius Randall, I guess is theoretically movable, but all of their core are these guys who are kind of tethered together. And maybe you can have a hard conversation with Jalen Brunson or whoever the primary stakeholders are there now in your estimation to say, look, we got to move Dante.

Look, we have to move Josh Hart to make this kind of move happen. But part of the appeal for those guys right now is getting to do this as a collective. Yeah, I think it depends on the player. If it's a legitimately world-changing player, you know, I'm sure if like, you know, back in the days people thought Joellen B. might be one day be on the move, right? Something like that, I think everybody would understand why Dante DiVenzo might not be able to be on the team anymore. Yeah.

But outside of that kind of deal, I don't think they do it. I think they really are like building this whole like family all for one type of situation. And they're taking care of their guys. Taking care of their guys. Family organization. As you're saying, like figures in power who stand to be there for a long time. It's looking a little crime family to me. It's a shaping some of it from a certain point of view.

But, Waz, you mentioned something about Brunson. is very important. I think we talk about in our way with basically every star, which is when you have LeBron, what does having LeBron allow you to do that's unique from other stars? When you have Jalen Brunson in New York with all of those kind of off-court monetary benefits, this is what can happen, is you can find ways to trim relative to the cap and the apron and make savings on the team, and he's still going to be made whole by the fact that he's a New York Knick. It's a very unique partnership, and it's allowing the Knicks to do something that basically no other team can do. I wonder if Rick Brunson did a new deal this off season.

It could be an interesting coincidence for some people to monitor. Filed it away directly to the family trust. Well, I can't. You can make a coach whatever you want, by the way. So second apron, obviously making it more difficult. And that's why this is so important, right, to add other guys on top of your start players. I wonder if this is like maybe the start of a little bit of a trend.

We saw LeBron sort of do it or suggest that he would do it and taking like a slight haircut on his contract. Is this like a bad precedent? Ultimately, if the biggest player in New York is taking less to help his organization. What is the bad precedent? For players earning the decisions. Yes. If I'm the players union right now, I'm a little annoyed.

The idea that Jalen Brunson is not maximizing his dollar potential. He individually is not, but we should say the players still make the same money because of the escrow system. Like the money is coming to them. due to the percentage of the cap that they are going to be paid. I think the flip side of that is it puts pressure on other guys. Guys that are coming up. It's like, look at Jaila Mrensen. Yeah.

You know, and if you're a player in the union, it's like, bro, don't try to make this the standard for our guys going forward. Our guys want what's coming to him. And if you want to use the LeBron comp, obviously, after he got through the heat deals. I thought that was your dog, Justin. He went back to making sure he got every goddamn. Yeah.

Until now. Yeah. So these things move in. cycles. I can see someone maybe getting into a situation where they took less. The team flips around. Does a Blake Griffin, for instance? That's like the worst case scenario. And that's the type of thing. I think if you're on the players union side, specifically, you have to be conscious of. I don't know how much it matters in this regard, but something to note at the very least. I think the NBA is a better and more interesting league when guys have different motivations. And sometimes that's playing in a certain

market. Sometimes it's playing with certain guys. Sometimes it's just playing a certain style for a certain coach. Sometimes it's just making as much possible money as you can make. And when you have that variety of perspectives, I think it just leads to better, more interesting summers and player movement and the orientation of the league looks more interesting. So you never answered the

question. What was the question? Would you take less? I pose the question to watch. I know. That's why we're turning back to you. I would take $37 million less to podcast with you guys every day of the week. Let's just hope Daniel Eck doesn't hear this. Here's the part of the calculation. I can't afford to make

negative $37 million. Here's part of the calculation, though. If I go take more elsewhere, then I have to do more work, you know? And again, I think it's important, like, the relationship that Brunson has cultivated with the New York public, with the fans at MSG, I think there is actual value to that. I don't know what the price is, but like just knowing you're cultivating this connection. And then also like forever and ever when Jalen Brunson can no longer make a jump shot in the NBA, he can count on the bonds and the connections that he's building in New York City.

Like, I think there is a certain value to that if you take a long-term view of it. And I think that's what Brunson is doing. He's taking a very long-term view of the project of the New York Knicks. It's freaking nuts. The real championships of the friends we make. along the way was I think it has a benefit if he gets like the Dirk treatment and he's just cashing in after the fact because they're giving him fake jobs sure which is which is kind of what you're suggesting well fake jobs look consultancies are are very real jobs I sure you is that his

role I actually don't know Dirk's I think he's technically a consultant with the Dallas Mavericks okay anything else you guys want to say about Las Vegas are you happy to be here in the 120 degree heat I'm thrilled to be here I'm having a great time somebody got to get Warren Legary on the phone and talk about the AC and the Thomas and Matt because goddamn is it hot as hell in here It's very hot, man. Just the energy and the vibrations, man, to think that like

all these people are here for a common love of hoop. I get pretty, you know. You are waxing poetical. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love it. And a common love on the most sicko possible love. Yes. Yes. You're right about the AC. It wasn't very hot in here today. It did not stop what I sought to be a man

in a full bear costume. Yeah. With the Stephen Adams jersey. A little late from Midsamar, but I guess we'll count it under the wire. Also a little dated now, unfortunately. Perhaps. I mean, but that's what we're out here. Like so many people out here with the classics, the retros, their favorite role player, they got traded away from their team.

That's the scene. Well, speaking of attire, we haven't brought up this beautiful shirt that Waz's had made for the rest of us. That's right. I thought we just weren't going to mention it. That we're all in Waza's shirt. So what would you call the style of this shirt? It's like 90s on the shirt. on the street.

It's actually called. Yeah, it just reminds me of like a cash money or no limit records album cover. That's what it reminded me of. This is group chat, 23, 24. That's right. All of our beautiful faces on this season. Including was literally holding the Larry O'Brien trophy. Shout out to Larry.

What's making an Emmy next year? Oh, wow. Can we win Emmys? Podcast Emmys? Maybe we could get a Webby. Yeah. What do they actually get for podcasts? We'll figure it out.

Hopefully Mac contracts is what they get. Now we're talking. For podcasts. All right, we'll wrap it right there. So we're taking a little bit of a break. We're easing into our summer schedule. We won't be back until the beginning of August. Talk about the Olympics and everything else going on there.

But we'll probably be on that pace until we get deeper into September. So we'll see you next time. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Tucker Tashin. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to five other people who I can't see because the room is dark over there. Thank you to you guys. Thank you for making those shirts.

Yes, thank you, yes, sir. Of course. We'll see you in a couple of weeks.