The Ringer NBA Show - Jalen Brunson Walks Down the Spurs to Take Game 1 of the Finals | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

Justin, Rob, and Kyle fire up the mics right after the New York Knicks’ huge Game 1 win in the 2026 NBA Finals.(00:00) - The guys discuss Karl-Anthony Towns’s massive impact on the game, the Knicks’ overall defensive dominance in the second half, and of course, Jalen Brunson’s brilliance to close the game.(33:38) - They close the show by talking about New York’s physicality on Victor Wembanyama, and adjustments the Spurs can make heading into Game 2. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney and J. Kyle MannProducers: Jeff Shearin and Ben CruzSocial: Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplinesBuy any two Ferrero Brands and you could win $1 million. Visit GoAllInAndWin.com to learn more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Varyer and joining me, Rob Mahoney, Jay Kyle, man. Woo! What a start to the NBA finals, Rob Mahoney. That's what I'm fucking talking about. Like, honestly, beautiful, ugly, no-holds-barred basketball, nobody getting bailed out with a foul call. Everything has to be difficult all the time.

We almost lost Jalen Brunson because of it, but he survived, we survived, the Knicks survived. Yeah, a surprising. amount of, uh, they let them play. I know we say that a lot, but there was, there was, there was some grabbing, some hand fighting here and there that maybe I would say, I would, I would, I would imagine there's going to be some, some chatter to the league office and appeal to like, like, maybe cut down on some of it. But overall, um, yeah, ups and downs. It was drama. It was theater. It was everything you would want. Yeah. That first quarter, I feel like I'm still

kind of catching my breath from. It reminded me if you guys have seen the Friday Night Lights movies where I believe it's preacher, the defensive end, when they go up against that really big team in the final game is like, they're so fast, they're big, and then plus they're fast. That was just like me writing down all of my notes where it was like, it's big, fast.

By the end of the game, things seemed to switch. Obviously, Brunson came back. And that fourth quarter in particular, it really felt like he put his stamp on the game. It really seemed symbolic, Rob, that down the stretch, Brunson was taking over. Wemby, unfortunately, dribbles off his foot. Brunson takes advantage,

and that's pretty much sealed it for the Knicks. Yeah, I mean, just what a joy it is to watch Jalen Brunson work. And I say that as much for the stretches where he doesn't have it going as anything else. Like he comes back from that injury. And he has to like really put his head down to try to get to the basket a couple of times. It kind of works. Then he gets sort of phased out. Then he comes back.

It was just like he had a response for every way that the Spurs tried to guard him. Like all their little tag and recover stuff, he would beat it. All their kind of soft drops, he would beat it. He saw some switches in the fourth quarter. eventually that wasn't good enough either. And so, like, there were points in this game where you would look at his shooting line. Like, oh, that's a little much, you know,

just by the percentages, not the most efficient night so far. But that's not what the finals are. And, like, to me, watching a superstar who can shoot and play through all of those tough stretches of offense is one of the best things about basketball. It's one of the things that someone like Victor Webbinjama is still learning how to do, honestly. Well, I don't know if they're going to go back to the switches,

but if they end up having to do that and the tag and recover stuff like you were talking about. I think they're going to have to make that work because they can't concede that switch with Champany because Brunson had, that's how Brunson got in a rhythm was when Champany was guarding him. And he can just overextend him. And I think anybody that plays,

you watch the way that people guard Brunson and you think like, oh, man, they're really pressuring him. Oh, you know, they're bothering him. It's just like Brunson lives in those little margins where you're leaning towards him. That's an advantage for him. It's honestly very like on a different scale,

Luca ish where the guys that are up on him, he doesn't look at it like, what am I going to do? He's like, I have you on this sharp hook that is my ability to use my balance. And then he had him. I mean, he got him a couple different times. Yeah, that was, there's some more stuff I think that we can get into about how they're going to guard him. But in the first half, it was Cat kind of outplaying Wimby offensively. And then in the second half, Brunson, after having such a wobbly, scary incident there

where I think it was his own guy bumped Barnes. into Bronson, really unfortunate he comes back and does what he does. It was kind of Iverson-ish, like that shot he hit in the corner. I definitely had flashbacks to like Iverson over Ty Lou kind of thing. Yeah, Landry Schaman almost had his Illumannity pass revoked there, Justin. It was real close based off of knocking Harrison Barnes into Jalen Brunson's knee, but all's well that ends well. Yeah.

Well, why don't we take a quick break? Come back. Break down the rest of the game. This episode of The Ringer NBA show is presented by Ferraro. The world is watching. Go All In for your team this summer with Ferreiro. Enter for the chance to win a range of prizes just by purchasing your favorite treats. Like Kinder Bueno with an irresistible chocolate wafer and creamy hazelnut filling,

or Keebler Chips Deluxe cookies with indulgent and rich chocolatey chunks, or Ferreiro Rochay squares with crunchy hazelnuts and milk chocolate wrapped in iconic gold. Go All In. Buy any two Ferreiro brands and you could win $1 million. Official rules apply. Learn more at go all in and win.com. So Jalen Brunson, obviously a master of the pivot, and I feel like down the stretch there, like,

just watching the amount of like counters and up and unders and spins and pivot, pivot, pivot, it's just like you get dizzy. Just like watching him, being able to guard him is one thing. But the synchronicity that he has with his bigs, there were like several key moments where I feel like Mitchell Robinson in particular, like you could see him sealing off Wembe. But Kat, too, like I felt like this was like the prime example of a veteran team that's played together for so long that knows each other's moving.

movements and like just to see those things collide because as Kyle said, Kat was amazing in this game like yeah, he steadied the Knicks until Brunson can come back, take over late. But it just felt like things like all fit together perfectly at the end there in a way that you would hold for a team that's more veteran laden that's going to grind you down versus a team like the spurs that wants to play with a little bit more frenetic style and just like kind of just ram it down your throat. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to know how much of that is just kind of the impressions that we superimpose on things.

but the Knicks do feel like the calmer team. They do feel like the steadier team based on the way they've executed, not just in game one, but all throughout the playoffs. And to the point where in the first half, OG and Ninobea McHale Bridges weren't really a part of the offense at all, I thought the Spurs did a great job of mostly holding down those spots on the kickouts, but also recovering out to them and forcing OG to put the ball on the floor and then have to make some difficult decisions thinking that Wembe could be around every corner.

It just wasn't really going anywhere. but you just kind of trust that over a long enough timeline, Jalen Brunson is going to bus free, Kat is going to help some of these guys get open, and sure enough, then OG starts to pop in the fourth quarter. And the Knicks just have that kind of balance right now where you trust that if things tilt too far in one direction, somebody is going to help counterbalance it.

And we should also say, Josh Hart, a huge part of that effort too, where, I mean, three points, not really a score whatsoever. What he does when he's not being guarded is really difficult and requires like high energy, high intensity, incredible focus to execute at all times. But there he is just making like a truly ridiculous number of connecting plays to make the Knicks go. Six rebounds in fourth two.

Yeah. Hart, I thought, an underrated thing that he did tonight was he definitely pulled the Zach Rindolph to Marcus Cousins like, we bully bullies in my neighborhood thing where, you know, Castle has come into this game where he's just been hitting first and just being just

relentless. Ask OKC fans if they, how they feel about. about Josh, or the way that Stefan Castle gets officiated as opposed to the way they get treated, you know, in the media and things like that. I mean, he's been that guy, the whole playoffs. And I kind of felt like Castle, this is the first series where I've been like Castle looked like he just kind of got beat at his own stylistic game tonight.

In addition to all the stuff that they were doing there, speaking to the cat thing in the first half, like, you know, he, I was wondering going into this game strategically, I was, I texted Michael Pena this morning where I was, it was one of those things where you wonder if the obvious thing that's right in front of your face is actually the answer. They have a name for that, Occam's Razor, where it's like,

I was like, why don't they, if they feel confident that they can contain Brunson straight up with the guys that they have, I was like, why don't they just play Wimby? You know, we kept talking about where they're going to hide them.

And you don't want to give up that zone stuff. But I mean, the first kind of like taste of blood, I think, that the Spurs got in this game was like when Kat blew by, ripped and blew by. by Wimby a couple times. Repeatedly.

It was crazy. That's interesting. Yeah. He was, I rewound it and watched it from the overhead angler. There's a lot of hand fighting going on. Of course. Like he'd getting it on him. I'll be curious to see how that changes.

But it kind of made me wonder if they do stay there. It's like Wimby really, really was above the break with his feet committing to that matchup. And I'm kind of wondering if they stick with that. Yeah. So like the Spurs did eventually start moving Wemby around and put him on people like Josh Hart and try to move him away from CAD. it took like all of six minutes for that to happen because Kat grilled him so badly in those opening minutes.

It was incredible. And yes, I think part of it is calibration, right? Wembe is playing up a little too high, respecting the jumper maybe a little too much. He also overplayed a lot on some of the handoffs that Kat was trying to execute and then just gave Kat the drive as a result. But I think you have to give Towns a ton of credit. I mean, he's been an incredible driver all playoffs long. And these are gutsy plays in which, yeah, he's handfighting to get free. but then he's fending off defenders as they come to challenge him and still converting.

I thought he was just sensational in this game. The combination of the driving and punishing Wembe, and then they move Wembe away, and then he starts beating spurs on the offensive glass because he's so much bigger than these other guys. Like, that domino, like, that's so devastating in a game like this. Yeah, I was pretty skeptical that the cat revolution would continue on into the finals just because, you know, he looked at the competition or just like, you know,

at a certain point, just something was going to be. going to fall because that's what happens with cat. It wasn't just like beasting guys on the offensive board. He was physical and like domineering in a way that previous cats would not be. Also doing it without really over following. I remember there's one point like I think it was early in the third quarter where he picked up his third foul. They kept him on the floor and he kind of just played a bit more measured as a result of that. His defense on Wembe as you guys alluded to.

But those drives, man. It's just so funny watching him because they're so effective in ways that you wouldn't expect it to be. It's almost like he's so top heavy that he really does have that bear on Roller Escape's vibe where it's like he seems like he's going to crash in any second. Like he takes a wrong thing. He's like teetering and tottering going down there. But he has just so much top strength. Like he's basically wearing like a big old barrel like like a poor person and like a cartoon. When someone loses all their money, you know, they wear the barrel.

He's cooking. Let him cook, Rob. Let him cook. Yeah. But like it's just like, Wendy was struggling to like keep track of that. Oh, yeah. got in his way. It's just like he was so effective at that.

And Cat was amazing in this game. So incredibly effective and effective the other way too. Like he was so physical guarding Wembe. And like how many possessions did we see Wemby try to face up and attack Cat one-on-one have to settle for like a kind of cheap turnaround jumper from the mid-range that ultimately missed because he got absolutely nowhere on his like first, second and even kind of third attempts at a move. I just don't think we can praise Kat enough for a game like this.

These are the biggest possible stakes. This is the matchup of this series. It's like, what do you do with Wemby on both sides? How do you torture him a little bit in the way that he tortures opponents? And Kat had these guys all spun around. Yeah. If you're an offensive player like that likes to operate in the middle of the floor, I feel like the spin is one of the first things that gets targeted.

I mean, I feel like I hear that a lot. Like, that's just guys that like to spin around the foul line. You're basically just going completely blind for a second. And that's a thing that they can exploit. It's interesting because the Knicks did a really good job with the timely digs on that. They did a really good. I have a couple shots of like they were kind of creating a little triangle around Wimby every time that he started to go to one of those moves.

I'll be curious to see, though, one of the things that they did kind of hit on a couple different times is just using that, you know, pass the ball to the left side and then have a pin down to get Wimby to that spot instead that you don't end up with those, you know, telegraph digs. I thought overall on defense, I thought that they did a great job. There was a point in this game where, I mean, you can't come at, we were talking earlier about, I felt like the Knicks really needed to steal this game to like really light the fire. I feel like, I feel like people have treated them like, they can do this.

Like this tonight I felt like was like, if they come in. there and make a statement and get this one. You shift the home court in math, obviously. But then I just thought that they couldn't, there was a point in this game where I was looking at the numbers where, you know, Wimby ended up six of 21. He got 26 points, but he, you know, he got a lot of those at the line. Fox was horrible.

We can talk about that. I thought Jaselle looked like he was over pursuing it all night. And I just felt like, yeah, I just felt like you couldn't come out of this game if you were the Knicks and not win this one with the way. It was going to hurt really bad if you lost this one, considering how badly the Spurs played on offense. What? Yeah, I mean, they played badly on offense because the Knicks locked these dudes up.

Like, we led with Brunson. We talked about Kat. We talked about like Josh Hard and the effect he has on the offense. This was a defensive win for New York. The Spur shot 36% from the field. They shot 26% from three. And I think most importantly, all those like wide open Julian Champany, weakside threes that were there in the first half,

completely iced out in the second half. And a lot of this comes out. into those digs you're talking about, Kyle, where the Knicks were overreacting or just like a little bit off their balance in terms of applying pressure on Wembe and walling up the guards as they tried to dribble penetrate and they were giving up some of that kickout stuff. Second half comes around and all of that is buttoned up. And then all of a sudden the spurs were just kind of constantly searching. Like passing the ball around San Antonio's ball movement was pretty good, but there's just

nothing open because the Knicks had everything locked up. Yeah, I mean, it seemed pretty apparent from the jump that the Knicks were bigger and matched to physicality in ways that perhaps we haven't seen the spurs go up against all playoffs like the only thing that was probably like approachable was like probably the Timberwolves or the Blazers in terms of pure size but obviously like I see you I see you that's right that's right I've I've made to shoehorn to Blazers reference in there I don't care um fucking 10 months into this season I can do whatever I want that jar that jar has dust on it like a flavored vodka bottle at a liquor store it's like it there's all out

Well, Harper was meteor to begin with, and it just felt like he was pretty pedestrian after the second half. I mean, we could get into whether or not, like, they should have played him more down the stretch. But it did feel like he hit, like, his energy bar just kind of dissipated down the stretch. And I have to wonder if that was a lot of the defensive adjustments that the Knicks were making, you guys were alluded to. I think it's some of the defensive adjustments. Also, I just think you can't overstate how draining a game like this is. the physicality is one thing, the emotional toll,

like the psychological toll of like, you could see it from the Spurs. They were by far, like the more jittery team to start. And Kyle, I think you were right about Devin Vassell in particular.

Like, it just looked like he was hunting a little bit too much. Like how many rushed jumpers and threes did we see from the Spurs in the first five minutes of this game? Some guys kind of settled down. Dylan Harper settled down.

I thought Wembe settled down a little bit in particular. Deer and Fox, I thought, moved well all throughout the game, but just never really seemed to convert anything from any range at all, which is going to be a problem. But all of this, like if you start out, kind of working extra hard to settle into the game, and then you have to fight these dudes all night long,

and then it's going into crunch time. I mean, it was a tie game going into the fourth quarter. You're scrapping for every single possession. There's bodies on the floor everywhere. I think it's natural that especially if you're a younger player by the time you get to the end, you just might not be used to 40, like 48 consecutive minutes of high-intensity basketball at this kind of level.

Yeah, a couple things. I mean, the Harper thing, he, for as brilliant as Dylan is, I think his talent positioned in the Spurs offense where he is playing as like a response, like he's catching the ball and and attacking a straight line drive. Like, he's so talented that like rotating defenses are just not equipped to handle him. I mean, he had one where he bodied OG. We're running through the list of who can't he body, he bodied OG. And put that when he in and I was like, oh,

Holy smokes. And then Bridges looked like he was holding on. He looked like somebody holding on to like the overgrown kid in like Peewee football, just like couldn't stop him. But there's a big difference between that and like, hey, Dylan, take the ball above the break and orchestrate. And you saw that last player where it was like, this is an experience. Nick's team. As awesome as Dylan is, it's like that's, that's a lot to ask.

So I don't know that we're, I think you got to continue to look for ways to use him. but I don't know that like putting him in spread ball screen and saying save us is going to be what the doctor ordered. But, you know, and I kind of go back and forth with Vassell and with Champany. They talked about on the broadcast how Shampini took an aggressive when in transit. You need those aggressive shots to so that that audacity has a ripple effect on your offense if they're going on. But I thought Vassel was chased them all over the place in a way where he never seemed totally comfortable to me. Maybe the Spurs will be able to make some kind of an adjustment to get those guys more. comfortable spots. I don't know what it's going to be. Yeah, Harper just felt like he was more

comfortable in this moment. You would expect that for someone who literally just turned 20 years old last month. It's wild. We were talking before we hopped on here that apparently Dylan Harper is 13 when COVID hit, which really just sent us into our own field. I don't like that. I don't like that at all. But he's just like he marries not only like that sort of youthful like I don't know what to do with my hands or like I don't know how bad this can be. So like I almost, I, I, I, I play with a certain ease and, like, I don't have the weight out of my shoulders as a dude. But he also, like, gets away with a lot of some, like, just holding and, like, kind of veteran moves. I don't know if that's because he's the son of a former NBA player or what, but, like, he kind of marries the two together to the point where, like, he seemed incredibly comfortable things ultimately kind of flipped on him there.

But, like, yeah, Kyle, go ahead. Oh, no, I just, something really random popped to my mind because I'm, so you notice my face processing something there. Nat, I've mentioned I have a little kid. I have a five-year-old. So I'm at playgrounds a lot. Like just, you know, whereas in the past I was at playgrounds and the cops would come and it was awful.

But I would, yeah. No, but I mean, you just, you watch, you watch kids play and things like that. And I remember there was this girl who was like, there's a fearlessness that comes with being really young. That's like, it's a superpower. It's an ignorance where you don't,

you don't necessarily see danger unless and that it enters you. But I remember she kept, she was standing way too close to this. thing and she kept bouncing this ball really hard off of it. And I was like, man, I was like, that thing's getting ready to hit her directly in the face. And she just, bam, and it like knocked her back. But she was standing so close. And I feel like that's what it made me think of where it's just like, when you're a certain age and you haven't experienced things, it's like there's

a powerful fearlessness, I think that I'm not saying Harper is going to lose that. But that's what that made me think of. I think the fearlessness serves him very well. I also think it's a compelling reason why he should play even more than this. We alluded to it despite the fatigue, despite the difficulty of the series, despite the fact, as you mentioned, Kyle, like by role, he's not often asked to initiate offense in the complex ways that Deerrin Fox is, for example. I'm not even saying Deeran Fox should play less.

I'm looking at like the 12 very vacant Harrison Barnes minutes, for example, and I just don't think Harry can play in a series like this one. He's giving them nothing. I know they're trying to steal minutes in the front court. I know Kelden Johnson was just like out of his mind in a way that they kind of took him out of out of commission here. He got straight up blocked by Deuce McBride at one point. Just like straight up drove on him and he blocked his shit. It didn't go great.

Yeah. But I think Dylan Harper needs to be out there even more than his, what did he end up with like 28 minutes? Yeah. For a couple of key reasons, the most important to me is games like this. This is a single possession game for a lot of crunch time. Again, tied going into the fourth quarter. so much of it comes down to chaos. So much if it comes down to like the one long rebound

and does that long rebound turn into a fast break or does it turn into the kind of like slow we have to reset sort of possession? And I trust Dylan Harper in those chaotic moments to drive hard and convert through traffic basically more than anyone else in this series barring perhaps Jalen Brunson. So if you can get one of those like guys

who can draft off of the insanity of a game and the intensity of a game like this, I just think that's worth its weight in gold. You know, you want the guys who can help you execute in the half court, but you really desperately need the players who can help you make sense of the things that are hard to make sense of. Yeah, I mean, I dinged his ability to, like, orchestrate, but that's what you're right. I mean, that's one of the areas where, not that he can't orchestrate, it's just like, I don't want to really totally put that burden on him.

And Fox has to be better. That's the other thing. But, yeah, I mean, he was just, like, sham it. I was texting to people like, sham it was a clear target for a bunch of the, this, the spurs ball handlers. And in transition, Harper got him a couple times where I was like, this might be an issue. So I don't know.

Maybe it's just like finding, maybe it's not putting him where he's the lead decision maker, but just incorporating him in more plays where he's like catching it like a like a jet sweep kind of thing and just going to the basket. Well, especially be careful what you wish for. You know, if like we all want to see Dylan Harper do more, if he starts doing more, the Knicks are just going to say, okay, OG and Ninobe, you're not guarding Dair and Fox anymore.

Now you're guarding Dylan Harper. Let's see how that goes for him. Well, I want to talk about OG's role in this, but why don't we take one more break? Come back. Talk about that. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fanduel. It all comes down to this.

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All right. We're going to make this easy. Game two odds as we're recording this. Spurs minus five and a half. It's a little bigger of a line than I would like, but I like the spurs to bounce back in game two. They're not going to lose two in a row at home. Miami's going to play better. I think some of the reserves are going to play better too.

So give me the spurs minus five and a half for now. And if you get a better line, that'd be nice going into game two. So just visit fandle.com slash ringer MBA to get started. 21 plus select states 18 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. First online real money wager only. Minimum $5. Wager required for seven consecutive days. Bonus issued as non-witrable bonus bets, which expires seven days after a seat.

Gambling problem, call 1-800-800-8-8-8-8-8-8-9-7-77 or visit ccccccccccccchat in Connecticut. So obviously the big kind of strategic matchup thing that everyone was looking forward to going into the series was just what they would do with Wembe defensively. What he guard Josh Hart. So as you guys talked about up top, like they started with Kat as in the matchup there. But then they switched it at half time. I thought that ultimately probably wasn't the best move. I thought it worked fine, but I do worry about it going forward in part because you saw the Knicks immediately go into OG on the blocks trying to go up in the post against Fox. And I do wonder, like, it didn't work.

OG didn't really play offensively all that well into the fourth quarter when a shot started to fall. But you saw, like, where there was an obvious source spot that the Knicks could take advantage of. I do wonder, all of a sudden, OG takes advantage of that in the next game. The advantage starts to, like, compound a little bit more there. On top of that, it just felt like heart, I felt was ready for that sort of strategic adjustment in the way that perhaps he wasn't in the regular season matchups. Just watching him create and just make the right hit-ahad pass. on the move with the extra bit of space. It just felt like it stressed the Spurs defense

in ways that it probably had him before. I'm curious what you guys think about that overall because that feels like the big chess move. And I would say at least in this first game, it went toward the Knicks. Yeah, I would say the closest thing they've seen is some of the effect that like Alex Crusoe can have on an offense.

You know, not on the days where he's not beating you with the shot, what else is he giving you? We saw Hart kind of dribbling through and doing some of the Nash stuff that we talked about in the last series. Just overall, helping them move side to side and activate different parts of their offense in a sort of counterintuitive way. I don't know what the best positioning for Wembe is.

If Josh Hart is going to play this way and he doesn't have to have a hot shooting night to play this way, that's going to be very tough to counter no matter where Wemby is. If you want to keep him on Kat, as we alluded to, I think he just needs to come off of the shot a little bit and play a little bit further back. Make Carl Anthony Towns have to go through the process of thinking, do I have enough room here to get this three off over Victor Webb and Yama? Make him consider it and reconsider it, make him have that flicker of doubt. Take them out of kind of the natural rhythms of their offense.

Because I think the more he plays up into Kat, weirdly enough, the easier it is for Kat to drive by him or the easier it is for the Knicks to get into their handoff. So it's like I think playing a little bit off of towns could go a long way if they want to keep him in that spot. Yeah, I mean, that's a knee-jerk decision that's a lot easier than the uncertainty that Wimby creates where you're just kind of like eyeballing it like can I even and we saw guys do that tonight. I mean, Oji deliberated about it for a while and made a crazy shot. We saw Avarado sizing him up. I felt overall like the Knicks were just a little more, they had a little more certainty I thought in the half court about how they were going to go about doing that, whether and that it was Gortotting him when one of their, you know, when Runson was driving.

Like we said, Robinson did a really good job about that. You mentioned Hart, gnashing where I think we mentioned this when they played in the, cup where they started to kind of poke at these things and figure them out where it was like, no, we're not going into this where we're like, oh, we thought we were going to flow into our offense and this thing isn't there. They're like, no, this is just an assumed part of the sequence where we're like, we're moving Wimby. We're not, we're not reacting, you know, and then once heart gets to the other side of the, of the rim, it's like there's the, there's these actions that are triggered where you start to kind of attack Wemby being out of

place. Yeah. Well, it's so far. funny too because I look at the Knicks bench and I just think like I don't know if like it made a dramatic impact. Duce definitely had his moments. Mitchell Robinson played through not having a hand I think fairly well. Clearly made an impact on the boards and just being physical in the paint. But like there was clearly like a lob or two where he just couldn't finish because he just literally doesn't have access to the mobility in his hands. But it's just so funny because like when I look at it from a far or remove more from the game, I'm like, well, there's so much more talent this birds can tap into across the board here, but it just felt like the Knicks across the board

just kind of like showed up in ways that you would expect for a team that's probably a little bit more used to this sort of environment. I think that ultimately is what it came down to. It felt like the Knicks were just forged in this sort of fire where things get crazy and like they just have a steadiness about them. I think Brunson probably represents that back. I feel like we haven't talked about Bronson maybe enough considering like, that's true. 30 points. Like this was his game. It was his game. I want to come back to him a little bit, but I think maybe even praising him some in absence

because if we are going to praise anyone on the Knicks bench, I thought Landry Schammert was pretty good as well. To me, those Jose Alvarado minutes, that's really where the game hung together for New York. Everything could have gone totally haywire when Brunson checked out to go back to the locker room or in the second half, I think Alvarado came back for one more stent

just as a regular rotation part of the substitution pattern. and the combination of Alvarado's both poise and intensity playing off of what Kat was giving them at that point of the game that to me is like the defining run of what the Knicks did. Yes, they closed. Yes, Brunson hit all the huge shots. But like not falling apart when the game kind of threatened to fall apart, I think it's just a testament to everything that they've built

and the way that they have been able to tap into all these guys at different times. And then it was Kat and Alvarado. But then later when Jalen Brunson comes back, he so seamlessly picks up and attacks what. whatever defense you put in front of him. Also, just like some of these possessions where Jalen Brunson not only is breaking down a style of coverage, but almost like the idea of a defender. Like they put Carter Bryant on him for three straight possessions,

and it was torture chamber stuff. It was exactly what Kyle was talking about up top, where if you are one of these defenders who kind of like lunges forward and wants to pressure, he will exploit you. He will like play that against you for leverage and just create, create, create. And this was after he just had what looked like, it might be a series altering knee injury. And yet he's just working Carter Bryant up and down the floor and then following his own miss for an offensive rebound.

It's just, it's insane. The level of exertion that Jalen Brunson is able to apply in a game like this, because if he is not attacking, the Knicks kind of can't sustain. Like they need him to be super aggressive all the time in the hunt for offense, even if he doesn't end up being the one shooting. Yeah, it's interesting because Shea obviously had a good series against the spurs, but things just didn't work out in ways. And he wasn't particularly efficient.

I'm curious what you guys think is the difference in this series. It's just the fact that you have Kat as the counterbalance and some of these other role players are just doing enough. Or do you think there's something specific about Brunson and the methodical nature of how he goes about his business that you think is having more effectiveness? Or perhaps it's just like the spurs are a little bit more run down after going through the gauntlet of the seven-game series in the West Finals.

Honestly, one of the things I've been thinking about in these playoffs is that, and we kind of talked around this as we've been negotiating everything that Brunson did in a game like this, I think he's just the most physically balanced score in the entire league. And some of that is the low center of gravity. Some of it is what that enables in terms of that pivot, pivot, pivot style. He's just so shifty and so hard to combat. But also, I think because of that, because of like, I'm just about the physical balance of his game, he's able to negotiate some of those in between spaces

in a way that even Shay can't. Like, Shea is great at creating space. He's great in the mid-range. One of the most unbelievable shot creators in the entire league. But there is something about Brunson when we're talking about, like, the most counterintuitive angles,

the little spots within the heart of the defense that shouldn't be possible to get a shot off. And it's what's both very effective about his game and also, like, very charming about his game, is just the improbability of, like, how did he even do that? How do you even make that possible? And to beat the spurs, you have to have that in your back.

You have to have someone in the lineup, if not multiple creators. And I think your point is well founded, too, JV, as far as just like the cat counterbalance is something that Sheigildis or Alexander didn't really have by the end of that series, like as a secondary creator to help prop things up. But to me, it's just everything that Jalen Brunson can do in the seams of a defense. I think he's better at working those angles than basically anybody else. Yeah, you don't really see Brunson going in.

there. I mean, one of the things that Che would do a lot is sort of like, you know, just freeze you with his moment, his movement. It wasn't as much about like just grabbing on to Shea's rhythm is really hard where Brunson definitely uses physicality, but he's not going to try to extend and just

like get away from you the way a lot of like guys in the paint do where it's Brunson. He does sometimes. I mean, if he beat somebody on a straight line, he'll get to that left hand and try to just get away from you. But he just doesn't play that game because I think he knows at 6'1 that it's not a game that he's going to win. So I always say that Luca is like running,

Luca is like racing somebody who is in control of the starter pistol. And I think that Brunson plays that way too. And I think when you got there in the paint, I was trying, I need to go back and watch, but I just feel like we need to see more Stefan Castle on him as much as you can get on him. Granted, it says here that, uh, 19 possessions he was guarding him. Granted, that's not like a super ton, but I just think you can't afford to have like the Julian Champanis or the, you're going to have to really figure out ways to keep your best guys on him because there's some vulnerability. Some of them may be unavoidable because he's so good.

I mean, they were prying Castle off of him a lot just with ball screens. And Castle is one of the best of recovering around those screens. But if you overpursue it all, Brunson will take advantage of that too. So it's just, it's kind of an impossible situation if you want to keep the one guy in front of him. When you're a mid-sized business, you need every competitive advantage you can get, like an AI solution that works for you, not against you. SAP Grow is built with AI embedded at its core, working across every system, and it's ready to go from day one so you can hit the ground

running. Bring it with SAP Grow. AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. Also, was I hearing things or did the crowd seem a little bit more pro-New York than you would expect? No, but when, like, Deuce had a big play, I think toward the end of the third, I heard her like a round of Deuce.

And I was like, what the fuck is that? And then toward the end, they were pretty raucous too. Like, what's going on there, Spurs fans? You got to push those guys. Chalme was in the second row. You couldn't, like, box out some more guys in the top, like, boxes? I don't know. This is the problem with teams like the Knicks.

it's not even that their fans travel. They're just everywhere to begin with. There's just enough people who have left New York and live everywhere around the country. Yeah, right when Dylan Harper was born, right? That's when they all moved out. Fairly. Fat Joe's down in San Antonio.

I don't buy that. Well, we talked around Wembe. We should talk about just like his impact on this game directly. Defensively, it's always fun seeing a new series start and like everyone like get accustomed to the fact that they can't go into the paint where it's just like real floors lava where they step. and like, whoa, okay, no, that's not going to happen. And there were a couple times where towns had to cock the ball back,

almost as if it was like at his ankles just trying to wait out Wembe and just never worked. I think he drew a follow on at once, but it's just like, dude, it doesn't happen. He just doesn't even have to leave the floor. But offensively, I would say fairly pedestrian, given the standards he set in the previous series, got to the line a ton, which you have to wonder if that, like, the compilessing. effect of the physicality probably were on him. But, like, you could always kind of tell when Wemby has an off night because the threes, the attempts are up, and he had nine in this, didn't hit a ton of them.

And, like, that kind of tells the story of just his impact was there, but not the, like, the full-throated, like, takeover that I think, like, they probably need in this game to push them ahead. Yeah, I thought his impact was much more there in the tilt that it put on the Nix defense overall. Like, they had to play down on every time he rolled to the rim. and they were super physical with him in a way that teams should be, that the Knicks should be.

Like, I think it's one of the kind of margins you should work against the Spurs right now, the fact that if you bump or hold or foul Victor Webenyama in any way on a roll on a lob before he gets the ball, it's not even a shooting foul. So like, why wouldn't you do that basically every opportunity and dare the officials to call them because the penalty is so low for it.

So like you should be as physical as possible in those moments. I thought the Knicks were. They took that element out of his game in the Spurs game almost completely. And it really was either working from the outside in, three point line outside, or face up from the mid-range against either Kat or Mitchell Robinson. Or, you know, there were the occasional mismatches that kind of forced the Knicks into something dramatic.

But I thought New York did a better job of kind of maintaining the shape of their matchups and fighting through those things to keep Biggs on Biggs for the most part. Yeah, I mean, we saw the Spurs go to a move that they pulled in crunch time against OKC that actually kind of broke the game open where they were doing the double kind of double wedge screen high where Wimby would just kind of turn and seal and sprint to the rim

and he beat Hartenstein with it a couple of times and they tried it a couple times in this game and the Knicks stifled it. So I don't know where they're going to... It was just really interesting to see as hard as it is to score on the thunder. It just seems like there are new problems to solve for them in terms of just...

I mean, in the first half, he didn't get any kind of looks at the rim. I mean, we started to see him get a little more active on the glass, like trying to just cobble it together where he could. But they did a fantastic job. We were talking about the Spurs not playing while they didn't. Granted, there are some areas where I think they can tweak their sort of errors of commission. But, yeah, credit the Knicks for just kind of thwarting a lot of that stuff.

I wonder with some of those ISOs specifically against Kat, and that was kind of like the game plan coming into the first quarter, was Wemby one-on-one against Kat basically. you could tell it was trying to exploit the matchup, probably also trying to see if he could pick up a foul or two on Kat in the process. None of it really worked that well. And we saw, you know, in the game to a little bit better effect, one of those like plays that would have really stood out if the Spurs had won,

was that clear out Wembe had on the left side of the floor, told Devin Vesel to get out of there, went one-on-one against Kat, drove through him and won for the finish. He faked the handoff. I wonder if they're going to try to do that again. Like, that cleared the side. Is that the one you're talking about? Exactly.

I think that kind of fake handoff could be really good. I also think, we don't see this from the Spurs a lot, but if Wembe's going to handle the ball this much, I think some inverted pick and roll stuff would be really good for them. Like having, I mean, trying to drag Shaman or Brunson into that action with the screener, then you're not, yeah, or Harper. Basically, whoever can pull a smaller defender in there, I think could be beneficial who's not O.G. and Anobie.

And then Wembe can drive without having to spin backwards, without having to expose the ball. Like he could just sort of gather over the top of the smaller defender and have an easier way to get into the basket. You know what my favorite adjustment is? What's that? Play better. They do need to do that too. And I do feel like for a lot of the guards that the spurs have, like that's probably bullet point number one.

I do wonder if things become a little bit easier if the threat of some of these other guys was a little bit more apparent. Seemed like Harper was the only one that really had an impact. Castle had his moment, definitely for sure. But Fox was a pretty big negative in this game. I mean, I don't know if it's an easy, like, answer, but perhaps like this is more. an injury concern trickling in from the previous series. Obviously, he's been battling that for a little while now. Just seemed like they typically, even like during this playoffs,

even in the midst of Castle and Harper having like these meteoric rises, it still feels like Fox's turn to when they need it, right? He is like the ultimate stopper. Like whenever they just need a bucket, it happened in the Portland series when I was there. It's just like Fox has to be the guy, especially when Wembe was out for those games. It just didn't seem like he had any impact in this game whatsoever. It was pretty brutal. Look, I think some of it is just the quality of the defenders who are in front of him,

which are uniformly better than any of the other guards' castle included. The Knicks have clearly calculated that they're going to live with a certain amount of Saffon Castle mid-range stuff, and it's just going to be the cost of doing business for the way they want to defend elsewhere on the floor. But Deerrin Fox, it feels like when he does get a shred of daylight, he's rushing in a way that doesn't feel characteristic of the guy we're used to seeing. Like he feels a little bit panicked by like, oh, this is finally my opportunity. I'm going to rush and get something up. And he's like backrooming jumpers and floaters, like stuff that is really the bread and butter

of his game when you're getting into the meat of the court. It's very odd to see. And I don't know, you know, maybe it is the injury. Maybe it's not. Maybe physically he feels better, but his timing is still a little bit off. And that'll improve over the course of the series as he kind of eases into it. But it simply has to be better than this. Yeah, that's a little bit of what we were talking about,

of the difference between the Knicks and this is why they went out and got these guys, you know, that went and got Bridges and O.G. It's that just a little bit more kind of forward size in their guys and their ball pressure guys and their switchability. And I mean, there was a play where, and I mean, that length causes you, you know, the length is different than the sort of six two, six three, six four guys that the thunder were throwing at him. It's like he could get away from those guys until kind of get to his shots because Fox is a

deceptively, I mean, he's probably six four. He kind of seemed small in the court, but I mean, he's a little bigger than you would think. He had a play there where he got into the paint. It was at a pretty crucial juncture, I think, there where I think they might have been down one. And he actually did exactly what you were talking about. He, like, broke through the ball line of the defense. And he shot like this just limp floater that he could have easily lobbed to Victor, which was clearly just like him here in the footsteps.

And also just like the spurs. just the shooting just wasn't there. And you've seen how much it just like, everything rolls from that. We saw it at the beginning of game seven. Like when they're shooting lights out, just things just kind of cascade. And just Champany was out of his mind in that first half.

I think he was like, what, he had five of them? Five and six or something like that? Yeah, I was like, are we just going to get Danny Green finals MVP buzz yet again? Remember when that was a thing

for like the first three games of that series? I'm here for Champani finals MVP. I'm not putting it to rest yet. You know, if the Spurs pulled this out, we get three more games in this. we might have a serious conversation on our hands. We'll definitely have the opportunities defensively

because I think they're going to try to spotlight, hit him a lot if you're the Knicks. But he didn't make another one for the rest of the game. And then like the only other person on the Spurs who hit more than one three was Victor. And obviously that didn't go too well. And so like it seems simplistic, but a lot of what the Spurs do kind of rolls from there

just because they don't really have a ton of those threats. And so I do want to have a little bit more success there. I have to wonder if that's why they were returning to Harrison Barnes. I mean, Colton Johnson didn't like Wisconsin himself in glory, but like they were looking for something. They were looking for something. But like so many of those things to me come down to the tight ropes that defenses have to go through. And, you know, they were highlighting this on the broadcast with Luke Cornett, you know, trying to guard the pick and roll as Jalen Brunson was throwing lobs to Mitchell Robinson, right? It's like, how much do you play up and lunge forward?

How much do you lurk back and kind of try to take away the lob? Every defender is put in this constant push and pull. And I thought the Knicks uniformly. did a much better job with the push and pulls as it related to the three-point shooting of the spurs in general, how to close out, how to close out under control, how to take away that stuff, without like really making themselves too vulnerable in the second half. The balance of New York's defense, I just thought overall was really exceptional. And so if you have that going for you, there's going to be a lot of tough three-point shooting nights,

unless guys like Champany are just getting white-hot shooting over the top of people, which, you know, you shrug and you go about your business and you trust that you did your job to the best you could if you're the Knicks. but the series may come down to that. Those minutes where Cornet was defending the pick and roll were pretty hilarious where the physicality inside, I put a clip on my Instagram of him.

He just clubbed the shit out of cat on that one play. And Cat was just like, I mean, seriously? Like pretty funny, pretty funny when Cornett came in there and threw his weight around. I guess he got inspired by that big block and he thought this is my domain. But yeah, he was doing it. He caught a glimpse of a nun.

Just was inspired. Yeah, the nuns up in the box. They were in the box. So you've got to move them down. Like, divine power doesn't work like that. Like, you've got to get some proximity to the court, I think. Is that how it works? You need sight lines?

I think you too, you know? Blessings can only go so far. I was thinking, this is much more lighthearted. This is a big game for foot size. Wimby and Cat. There was a play where they were standing toe to toe, literally. literally. And I was like, I think this might be the biggest possible foot matchup that we could get in the finals.

There's some big ass feet, man. Katz got like size what, 22? Huge. Do they track that on stathead? Biggest feats? Kyle would know. Wendy's just proportion is just like. Feats of feet?

I love that. He just looks like he has a canoe sitting at his feet. It's wild stuff. Kyle outing himself as a foot guy on this pod. I mean, you just hate to see it. Totally not a foot guy. I'm more, everybody that's heard me talk about anything knows I'm a hand guy. I was struck by the foot tonight.

You were struck by the foot. Much like Jalen Brunson's ankle. Like the second injury he almost sustained as Luke Cornett landed straight on that thing. Like I was so mad. Understandably, look, he absolutely got foul up on that play and then hit the deck and then Luke Cornyette fell on him. Would you not be mad under those circumstances? Luke's got to throw his weight around, man.

All right. Anything else you guys want to hit before we get out of here, go to game two? You know, the matchup advantages, any, like, deep cut, really insightful stuff you want to hit it? There's got to be something, right? Have we hit this game from every possible angle? I mean, we didn't talk about Mike Breen saying that a bunch of his bosses and Adam Silver were handsome men. Interesting. I thought that was great.

I thought it was a great bit. It was a good one. It was really good. Breen is unimpeachable, honestly. Oh, man. Mike Breen Apex Mountain, calling the Knicks in a finals? Yeah. Personally, it might be, but I think if he gets an opportunity to double bang at any point in this series on a Nick shot of any kind, that's got to be it.

All right. Let me wrap it there. Keep it a little briefer than usual because when I get this out to you guys as soon as possible. We'll be back after game two. So we're doing the same thing, recording immediately following game two of the NBA finals. Thank you to Ben Cruz for filling in on production while everyone else is in fucking Sweden. We'll talk to you next time. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C.,

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