The Ringer NBA Show - Jalen Green Forgoes College for the G League. Plus: The Ringer NBA Draft Guide Launches | The Mismatch

Episode Date: April 17, 2020

Top prospect Jalen Green is the next player to join the G League rather than go to college. Is he the next wave in a trend or an outlier (3:20)? Plus: The Ringer NBA Draft Guide has launched. Which players does Kevin have higher or lower than the NBA community consensus (55:15)? Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch on the Rigger Podcast Network is brought to you by World Central Kitchen. Their relief team is working across America to safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals and communities that need support. They're now serving tens of thousands of meals daily in some of our biggest cities like New York and Los Angeles. And they're launching initiatives across America to deliver fresh, hot meals to hospitals and clinics fighting on the front lines while also keeping local restaurants and business. You can directly help the heroes and hospitals and clinics who are fighting for us, and you can help keep your local restaurants alive. Go to the ringer.com slash WCK to donate. We're trying to raise $250,000. And if you have the means, it's an unbelievably great and useful cause that helps our hospital heroes, emergency workers, and local restaurants.

Please give whatever you can. The money goes directly to World Central Kitchen, and it's a charitable donation. Once again, that's the ringer.com slash WCK. Now on to the mismatch. The Ringer NBA show, I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor, Kavanaugh, Kevin O'Connorcy, Kevin O'Cityland, Kevin O'Killian.

Shout out to an Instagram DM that told me I should have add that to the mix as Killian Hayes made your number one. Kevin O'all! How are you doing this morning, Chris? I'm doing great. The draft guide dropped. I printed it off on my printer. And it said at the conclusion,

you need a new cartridge. It did. It was 38 pages printed off. I'm not kidding. It's a beautiful draft guide, isn't it? The design team did incredible. I can't stop looking at it.

It's so pretty. It's beautiful. works flawlessly. I love it. I love it too. And we're going to go through the draft guy, but let's get to the biggest news of the day, which is the horse competition last night. I only kid. I didn't watch it. Did you? No, I was binge watching a show that I will name later.

Oh, okay. All right. Well, ABC had a show to be named later, avoiding spoilers at all costs. Understood. A. ABC had a. ABC had a Disney sing-along so that's what we watched in my house. My mom turned that on at one point and we had it on

I didn't really enjoy it that much it's nice, it's cool for kids but some of the song selections I wasn't a big fan of I don't watch much of it. You're never going to believe this. It wasn't my choice to be watching

the Disney sing-along show. No. That was I was overruled. I did see the video you posted on Instagram this morning of your son doing a chance to rap for song. That's from way back when. Because what I have been doing is telling people and followers that I am like many that have young children, you are daily being asked to have a YouTube channel. And as that story goes, I'll keep this quick years ago.

So my son used to put out the iPad outside next to his basketball goal and then mimic everything that the players that he was watching on the screen do. A lot of kids do this, I'm sure. But the ball hit it one day. It crashed to the ground and the screen broke. Upon the screen breaking, I had to retrieve everything off of the iPad so that we could try to transfer it to a new one. unbeknownst to me there were tons of photos but there were a million videos and for like a year and a half he had been going to his room and recording his own YouTube channel which of course did not exist the channel didn't exist but I'm talking I'm going through the videos and it's like

hey guys it's me William you know he's doing like the whole the whole bit and that video I posted was one of the videos that I retrieved off of there And he would just sing songs and he would do whatever it would be. But now my daughter, she's full court pressing on the, I want a YouTube channel. And I've tried to look this stuff up and I know like, look, I keep on fighting it. And now I've got them to the point where they are, quote, practicing. And maybe it's a phase that will end, but I don't know. Look, it's just a lot of work for me.

They don't know how to do any of that crap. Well, but well, your son is nearing the age where he's going to be able to create his own account. Maybe. You know? Maybe. I don't know. He might be 13. For all you know, he might have an account right now.

He probably does. He probably does. He's like, dad, can I practice making a YouTube video? Meanwhile, it's all. I am blessed to have a job where I am with my children much more than I think normal job. if I had like some kind of nine to five or something, I am able to be around my children all the time. And still, they could be filming a YouTube video in their room.

And I would have to find out about it. I don't know what all they know about stuff. I tell you this, like it was, was it like a couple months ago? He like scrambled. He was on like 2K and he scrambled to get it off the screen. You know how you do if you're like looking at something? Maybe you shouldn't be looking at or whatever. And so I'm like scrolling through and I go to like my team or whatever.

You know what the name of his my team was? These nuts. I was like, what? Wow. I was like, what is this? And he was like, nothing. And he's like, I just, I just, I thought it was funny. And I was like, yeah, it's not.

You're 10, bro. You are 10. Look, these kids, they know everything quick. And so I'm fighting off the YouTube thing. I did post that this morning. Speaking of gaming, by the way, a lot of my friends have been playing video games. That's been like their way of connecting my,

you know, high school friends and all that. And last night, I purchased an Xbox. I'm back. I have returned to gaming. Xbox. Yeah,

we can still play. We can do cross console, can we? Why? You're on PlayStation? Yeah, I'm on PlayStation 4. You can do,

you can do cross console for, can you do that for two cats? I know you can do that for like Warzone You know I don't know any Fortnite and all that I know nothing about gaming I mean I know I don't play some games

And obviously it's I I am most aware of gaming Because of my son NBA 2K is not currently cross platform Boo Hey by the way I knew you would chicken out Trying to find me on that

bought an Xbox just so you could say You don't have to play me I want to play with my friends Chris. I thought I was your friend. Well, we're not friends anymore.

You know, like it's funny because almost all the games that they're playing are cross-platform. So maybe I should have done PlayStation so I could play 2K with you

and give you a beatdown and still be able to play Warzone and other games with them on on Xbox. By the way, the last time I played games, the last time I owned a console, I forget which year I sold everything.

I think it was 2015. Cross platform is so foreign to me. I mean, this is crazy that you're able to play an Xbox and go against somebody that's on PC. Then there's someone else in the room that's on PS4. That is nuts to me. And I'm excited to get back and play it in a less serious manner than perhaps I did in the past. When I had usernames like your son, these nuts. It's not his username.

it was the team name. Be careful. That was his username. It would have been a greater argument. All right. Let's get to the stories at hand. First things first, we've got the Jordan Dock coming up this weekend,

which I know everybody that is a basketball fan has been super anticipating. Everybody in the free world posted this. five-minute clip of the show this morning. I watched it. Did you watch it? Of course I did. It was awesome. In that five-minute span, they do kind of introduce Jerry Krause as this, you know, the bad guy, right? The guy that, like, wanted credit, but didn't feel like he was giving credit. Jordan hated him. There's the problem between them. And so they kind of introduced it. And it could not help me, or I couldn't help myself from thinking about, years ago when I was very, very young, Jerry Cross was obviously always a big deal. And he was scouting.

I want to say, I can't remember what team he was scouting for when I first started covering the NBA. And I saw him. And of course, he was famous guy. I knew who he was. And Kevin, I walked right up to him. He's walking out of the media room. I'm walking into the media room, right? And I extended my hand.

And I was like, Mr. Cross, hey, my name's Chris Vernon. and welcome to Memphis. Nice to meet you. This dude did not acknowledge me at all. Like, just walked right past me. And so if this doc's going to make him look bad, I couldn't care less. He just blew right. Unlike Gilbert Arenas, who is, there was nothing but a friend to you.

That's right. No, very rarely in my life, have I ever stood, I mean, it wasn't like he didn't see me or didn't hear me or nothing. He just had absolutely no interest in engaging me whatsoever. It just blew right past me. And so as I am watching this. And then, you know, I remember telling that story once upon the time on the air. People are like, well, he has real bad social anxiety and all this stuff.

I was like, oh, come on. I was right in his face. Like, you can be nice to somebody. I mean, this is the guy who said players and coaches don't win championships. Right. Organizations do. And, you know, like, as he said years later, you know, clarifying that, like, he meant it's more than one person, which is true. But guys like Michael Jordan.

uh, they deserve the part of the credit. And it's weird, it's just weird that like somebody could get that jealous and envious of someone who is obviously so deserving of the majority of the attention, um, for the success of the team, especially as the general manager.

Like, it's like, dude, you have Michael Jordan. You have Michael Jordan. Be happy. Well, it's unfortunate.

It all led to that. And I look forward to watching that documentary, whatever week, that portion. Beyond being a basketball fan and and a Jordan fan who grew up on it wanting to see this so badly, the other thing that we have missed is communal events, as it were. We really haven't had anything since all of this coronavirus and the shelter and home edicts have come about. You know, like no shows are really every, you feel like everybody's watching it at the same time.

There were a lot of people that watch Tiger King or whatever. That's gotten a lot of talk or some Netflix things. But in terms of something where you feel like everybody's watching it, and sometimes you get this, you know, on Thursday nights on TNT, or there'll be a Sunday afternoon ABC game. And you just feel like at least on social media, there is this communal experience. Everybody's kind of watching the same thing or it feels that way.

And we haven't really had any of those. But I kind of feel like, you know, regarding social media and people connecting and giving their opinions on something that is happening, this will be beyond basketball, beyond the fact that it's about Jordan, just a communal activity of which I feel like has not really existed for the last several months, which is something you always get with sports games, NFL games, NBA games, college football games, whatever it may be, that feel like. that you're doing the same thing so many other people are doing. I talked with somebody who watched the first two episodes of a screener, and they said it was effing epic. Oh, wow. Awesome. Yes. So this person is somebody who would be open and honest if it wasn't what you expected it to be,

and it sounds like it is beyond what we expect it to be. So I'm especially excited for Sunday night. All right. So that's coming up. And then yesterday, big news drop regarding Jalen Green. He is by many accounts, the number one player in the country in the class of 2020. He was going. High school class.

Yes. He had a short list of schools that he was going to attend. Little stab for me, considering, I don't know if you saw this, the kid said if he was going to college, he would have gone to Memphis. So I would have seen the kid all the time. I mean, unless it went like it did for him for James Wiseman. Right. That was, who knows? That wasn't very fun.

I must tell you. But this kid decides he is going to go to the G League. And what was so jarring about this was not that the kid was going to the G league. It was the insane amount of questions that followed this decision. and what I mean by that is how is this going to work? Like, how does he end up on a team? What's going to have with this? And all of those answers were not accessible when the news leaked out that the kid was going to take this developmental path and go to the G League.

I mean, I even called around NBA sources and was asking these questions and nobody knew. And then as the day went on, it was more explained. that it's not really a G-League team. They are going to be playing competitive basketball exhibition style almost, and it will be a developmental team that is based out of Los Angeles, and that's what he's going to be a part of. And it does feel like so many things with it are still to be decided, and it's all kind of getting figured out.

but it's inevitably a massive story when one of the top high school kids is not going to go to the college route, especially after we're about to watch an NBA draft a few months from now where two of the highest ranked kids did not play collegiate basketball last year. Well, here's what we do know.

We do know he's going to get paid at least $500,000. Right. We do know that the NBA will be paying for a college scholarship for him in the future. we do know that he's able to sign endorsement deals right away, which could potentially, for a guy like him, exceed a million dollars. So those are the things we know. We do know, as you said, that it's going to be a developmental team

that focuses on building a roster with veterans. And this is according to Jonathan Giovanni of ESPN, that they're going to add veteran players that help support the development of somebody, like a Jalen Green, and other players that will join. that team we do know, according to Gvone, that this G-League team will face some other G-League teams. They're just not going to count in the standings and could face foreign national teams or other academies around the world too. And this wouldn't happen this year, but I've talked to a handful of executives that, let's say in the future, because I reported

three years ago that this was the type of team that the NBA had in the works. In 2017, they had a vision of having a G-League team without an NBA affiliate for development. And this is what it is. But let's say in the future, if there's two of these teams or three or four, you could have that team play a preseason game and the NBA. It could play in a mid-season tournament. It could add two teams to make a field of 32 for an in-season tournament. And this team in the G-League could have an opportunity to play in the NBA

mid-season tournament. Something like that could be in part of the future. And these are all like good theoretical things for a young player. However, it does raise a lot more questions about how this is going to actually work moving forward and whether this is actually better for a young player. There's a lot of good, obviously, with the financial aspect and the focus on development and everything like that. but, you know, and the fact they get to stay home in the United States too. But there are questions of whether this is overall a better thing, better thing for the players than the existing system. With the NBA really trying to just dominate development around the world with guys at younger and younger ages. Yeah.

I mean, look, just right off the top of my head, A, how does it make money? I mean, this is an awful lot of money to be spending. Well, baseball's cutting minor league teams or trying to, right? Right. And it doesn't work there for revenue. And granted, I think an NBA minor leagues would have more interest, right? You can look at YouTube channels and Instagram and all that. On this surface, is this just an expense?

I think, I think Jalen Green is going to be the type of guy. Let's say, let's say Jalen Green is a success. He's a top three pick. He'll open the floodgates. If he fails. I'm saying, no, but look, in order to make money, you've got to be on TV. And I don't know if they're going to put these kids on TV or what. The other thing is, who gets to do it?

That's what I'm saying. Like, there's just so many things that we don't know. And what if Jalen Green, his best friend is the 160th player in the country? This happens all the time with colleges, right? They call them package deals. Is the NBA going to get in the business of package deals? if Jalen Green says, hey, I'll come play. But, you know, my buddy, you know, John Smith, I'll come if you bring him to.

Like, what's the cutoff in terms of who's considered elite that can even be on this team? Do you recruit? I mean, obviously you don't want to. I mean, I just, there's just so many things. But it feels kind of like, hey, the number one kid in the country is willing to do this. We'll just figure it out. I just think there's so much figuring out to do. And you don't know if it is going to be best for their development.

You know, you and I got a mailbag question a couple weeks ago about could we see more kids in Australia? Could we see more kids in New Zealand, given what has happened with Lobello Ball, RJ Hampton, and the like. And my answer was what you need is one of these kids that does not go to college becoming a huge superstar. because it might be a fool's errand to attribute their, you know, what prepared them for the next level necessarily because of where they played. But there will be people to do that. They say, oh, well, it's because he, you know, man, he was way better off playing in Australia for a year than against grown men than he was, you know, playing for Georgia or wherever, you know,

a kid may possibly go. but going back all the way to the the Brandon Jennings, the Emmanuel Moodyeer, Amfordy Simons, Darius Basley, on and on, Terrence Ferguson, on and on. None of those kids have yet become a massive superstar. And so whether it's legitimate or not, when one of them, or in this case of Jalen Green, it may not matter where Jalen Green plays. If he's unbelievably awesome, he'll probably be a star no matter where he plays. You and I both know if Zion would have done this.

If Zion would have gone and played in Australia, he'd have destroyed everybody there too. You know, I mean, but it went to Duke. They need a great success story of the kid that hasn't gone, that didn't go to college. You know, I'm talking about since, you know, the advent of the one and done. Because there's clearly a ton of the high school kids that became some of the greatest players in NBA history. But there is no great success story yet. And I think that'll kind of be the mark with Jalen Green, too, don't you? Like if he becomes a huge star, then, yeah, you're probably going to get other kids want to do this too.

Or if he gets drafted very, very highly and doesn't hurt because it feels like he's kind of the kid that could only hurt his draft stock. Right. I mean, right now. Yeah. He'll be right. He's one of the top three guys in 2021. ones. I mean, yeah, right. And he like put it this way. I would say it like this. You would take Jalen Green over any of the prospects on the 2020 drafts. Yeah. And don't you, don't you work,

don't you wonder, I have. You think R.J. Hampton is going where he's going. Where'd you have him on your draft board? I think you had him like at the end of the lottery, right? Yeah, I have him like 14, something like that. Is he better? You know what I mean? Is he higher if he went to Texas Tech? He might. Right. You don't know. We don't know. We don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, look, it's a risk for players to go to a league where grown men are playing and granted, this will be different. But, you know, going to us, here's the thing, though. I mean, the Australian League is where, you know, older European players go to play to play. Right. The Australian League is not the strongest league in the world. It's not the Spanish League. It's where those older guys nearing retirement go to play there lasting years. So it's not the best league in the world. However, it still is guys. who are, you know, grown, you know, in their athletic primes a lot oftentimes or a little bit past it who are fighting, you know, to put food on the table. It's a big difference than like

other, maybe certain other leagues where guys are younger and maybe aren't as developed. So there's risk in that sense. But there's also risk in terms of something new for a player. I mean, whether, like it was for Lemello or RJ going to a different country on the other side, of the world and everything that might come with that. Or it's just like it may not be best free development. Sometimes these systems don't give playing time to that player as much because of the fact that they aren't totally ready for it. And that's where this team that the NBA created is essentially promising opportunity

to develop. It is promising attention because that is what is built for to develop younger players. It's just going to be interesting to see how this does actually develop over the course of time if they add another team or two or three more teams or not to mention if this becomes something where they suddenly feel like yeah we'll keep the one and done we'll we'll keep it as is because as of now i mean talks are stalled between the NBA and the players association regarding the one and done there's a chance as woge said yesterday that that doesn't get picked up until 2025. I haven't heard a peep about any movement on that in months.

So that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon, especially now with this new G-League team. So it is very possible that the domino effect here is that there will be no double draft in 2022, as we've talked about before, with high school prospects coming in. Like Imani Bates, who is currently a sophomore, would have been eligible for that draft. He may now potentially have to go this route where he plays a. year in college or plays a year professionally somewhere, whether it's the G League or overseas, this changes things. And we'll see how it develops over time. But right now, a lot of the NBA executives I talk to, they have more questions about what is happening now and where this is going

from a business perspective for the league in terms of your investing in something that is not going to bring in revenue, but also from a player in person developmental perspective, whether this is actually for the best for kids. It is a unproven route, and maybe it will be for the best. But we don't know that yet. And I can only hope for guys, not even like Jalen Green, but those second tier, third tier prospects that aren't sure things in the NBA to actually get an opportunity in the NBA. I hope it's for the best for them more than anybody else. Because as you said,

Jalen Green or Zion Williamson, some of these guys would succeed anywhere. Yeah, we just don't have answers for. you know, so much of it. Like, you know, and I think you got the same response I did when you talk to NBA people, they don't know. They don't know how it's all going to work. You know, of course, if Jalen Green says he wants to do this, then yeah, by all means you do it. But what if this was the, I don't know, the 25th ranked recruit? Is all this being done?

Well, you do have that. We have Isaiah Todd. Yeah, but Isaiah Todd's doing it because, you know, that decision came after the Jalen Green thing. He followed suit. If it would have been Isaiah Todd and not, and let's say Jalen Green says a school yesterday, right? Is this the little thing going off like it is with Isaiah Todd? It doesn't feel like it, right? It feels like it's being thrown together because Jalen Green said he's willing to do it.

I'm sure, I'm sure that helps Isaiah Todd's decision, but he's somebody, even though he's, 11th ranked RSCI high school recruit, he is still not a sure thing in the NBA. So he's somebody that could potentially go this route and after one year not be ready for the draft or enter his name into the draft and he's a second round pick. And is that preferable because he's getting a payday ahead of time? And we don't know what amount he would actually get paid. but is that preferable instead of going to college for two years getting some illegal payment and flying charter planes and you know in facilities that have you know with staffs that have been

there for years and years maybe not it might not be for guys like that and I guess that's that's what I look forward to seeing develop over the course of this year but even then though this next year because of the coronavirus pandemic we don't exactly know what this next year is going to look like. Hopefully it is not nearly as bad as some scientists say it will be. Hopefully, you know, there's a sense of normalcy by the time October, November, December rolls around. But like over this next year, training might not be the same for some of these guys. They might not be able to get the full benefits of playing with this G-League team. So this next year is really a trial in a year with a lot of chaos. So it's sort of going to be hard to be hard.

to judge it before another a second and a third year with this G league team. As solely a business proposition, of course it is great for the kid. There are two things that this is not going to be able to compete with, right? Which is the exposure, right? The big exposure

that you do get from playing in collegiate basketball. And also, and I know that some people roll their eyes and discount this, but that college experience, I mean, I can tell you that over the last several years, I have interviewed all manner of players and their greatest memories in many cases are the year sometimes.

And many times with the great players now, it's just one year that they spent in college and how much they loved college and the friends that they made while they were there and how much they loved the college experience. Now, of course, they made a business decision to leave. But, I mean, I will tell you, every summer, Jaron Jackson Jr. will go back to Lansing, Michigan, to be at Michigan State with those people. And Mike Conley has a house in Columbus, Ohio. He was only there for a year. He was one of the one of the one and Duns with him and Odin. And that story is the story of many kids all over and how much they loved college. You know,

you're going to work for the rest of your life. And you're, and, and, and it kits these kids rather quickly that this is a job now. And you have to be, you know, extremely responsible. And when in college, I mean, nothing's more fun than that. I mean, all of a sudden, you're out on your own for the first time. You don't have that, you don't have, you've got responsibility, but not that much responsibility. Obviously, if you're one of these big time athletes, you're a big man on campus, there's girls everywhere.

I mean, college is great. And so, like, you know, how much fun is this going to be? Look, what's fun is making 500 grand, which, I mean, if you know, if you're not, if you're I mean, in fairness, I loved college, and I've got some of my best friends. But if you would have come to me after, you know, and said, hey, instead of going to college, I'll give you 500 grand. I mean, you know, money's not everything, but. I mean, college, college can be fun, of course, for a lot of guys. Like you said, fond memories and all that.

But you can also have fun still while having a job, you know. And I think I sort of look at this G-League team as basketball school. It's an academy essentially. And I mean, there's, you know, a lot of issues that can come from that. If academies become more popular and you're having young 13, 14 year old kids go to basketball academies rather than traditional high school and getting a different type of education than they otherwise normally would have received. And you can talk about, you know, the negative effects of that could come from that. But the counter argument is like is the high school system in the United States or the schooling system around the. the world really that great in certain areas of the country.

There's, it is a very, it is, put it this way, it is a conversation that goes beyond the sport about what is for the best for young people. They're not players here. They're not just prospects. They're people.

They're, they're young adults. They're kids. And it's like, what is the best for these kids? And I have a lot of questions about, well, and we've also.

I do think that. I do think, though, that the NBA, their long-term goal, very clearly, by building academies around the world, by having this G-League team, it is very clearly that they want to control the development of prospects, young players, kids, as they're growing up. That's clearly the long-term goal here, is finding and developing talent at younger and younger ages. Yeah. And, you know, regarding college basketball, I know there's going to be people saying, oh, this isn't going to hurt that much. There's going to be people saying, oh, well, the best players aren't going to college anymore. And this is a big, big problem. I can only speak to. And I know this wasn't as good of a class. But there is no question. I watched much. I went out of my way. How about that? To watch much more college basketball last year than I did this past year. If that makes any sense. Like, if I knew Zion and RJ Barrett and that group was going to be on, I went out of my way to watch it. I was watching ESPN Plus to watch Murray State games and John Morant.

I mean, there were prospects that you seeked out. The same went a few years ago where it was everybody from, you know, Marvin Bagley to Jared Jackson Jr. to Moe Bomball on and on. And this past year was so many of the guys not playing collegiate basketball, you know, yes, there were some people that are going to go out of their way to watch Obie Topen from Dayton, but it wasn't like, or maybe Anthony Edwards at Georgia, but with so many of the kids not playing college basketball, I can only speak to myself that I love college basketball. I watch my favorite team a lot, but in terms of going out of my way to watch

other games, I did it a lot less because of the level of prospect that was available to watch. and that a lot of them were not playing. It's going to hurt. There's no way around it. I wonder, look, people saying rest and peace college basketball are going too far. College basketball is continued to thrive, just like it did while, you know, from 95 to 05, when the NBA did allow high schoolers to go straight to the NBA, the college basketball was still insanely popular then.

So that's not going to change. However, though, I do think over the course of the regular season, not just March Madness, that we will see some level of interest on the decline because of people who are more interested in players than actual teams. People who love watching Texas or love watching Duke, you know, or the biggest Washington Husky's fan,

like their whole family went to school there and all that. They're not going to stop watching games, obviously. But it's the people that, like, are more interested in the players and that are just interested in March Madness that aren't going to watch quite a lot. as much. Right. Oh, I mean, just think about, we just saw Zion,

those games and their rating, and then you saw that, that Pelicans game when he first played was as highly rated as they had anything going on a regular season on ESPN. And what if Zion would have played a year in Los Angeles and not on TV all that much? It's just not the same.

I don't think it would have really made a difference with him. Of course it would. I think, I think, yes, there would have been a difference. but I'm not sure it would have been that noticeable because he's somebody who went into, he went into college already with millions of followers on social media.

He was already, he was, yeah, he did. I know, I don't, but we've known, I've known about La Mello Ball since he was 11 years old. You know, I mean, do you think people are going to go out of their way to watch, tune in Lamello in that way last year? Whereas if he would have played last year at UCLA, your damn right, I would have been tuning in to watch Lamello Ball. 100%.

Yeah, I, know, I know, I know, but what I'm saying is like, how much of a difference does that make for the player? A big difference? Fame wise. I think fame wise are great. I'm asking. Zion was way more famous because he played at Duke and was on ESPN all the time than if he would have been off the radar completely. I believe that 100%.

You know, if we didn't see him playing for a year, you know, we'd find the other guy that we found so exciting. People will be talking up RJ Barrett or John Morant or whoever else was in the class. This is the challenge here, right? Like, yes, Zion probably gained more fame going to Duke than he would have Patty done another path. That's true. However, is it worth the risk there from getting injured and not having a payday at the end of the day or not having some type of pay in advance because you're going another route that does pay like the Mellow. like Lamello Balded, he now owns the freaking team in Australia. No, no, no, I mean.

I'm not speaking to the player. Don't, don't give me wrong. I'm not speaking to the player in their decision they're making. I'm speaking on college basketball's behalf. And I'm saying having an entity like Zion Williamson is a massive, massive deal. And yes, of course, it helped him be more famous, I think. There are, there are pluses and minuses on that. But you can recall Zion Williamson loved playing college basketball so much.

He wanted to go back for another year as the story goes. And they're like, what are you, nuts? Right. Like, I mean, he obviously had a great time doing it and loved his time there. I'm just saying for college basketball, you get this guy that people are going to go out of their way to tune in. And if the best players, if the next Zion, let's say Imani Bates. if if amati bates who i've been aware of since he was a freshman in high school by the time it comes around and he goes and plays somewhere that's not on tv you're going to just lose track because

guys on television um you go out of your way to watch them well and that's what's going to be interesting here because with the NBA right so there's clearly interests in young basketball players you know you know about these players sometimes when they're 12 13, 14 years old. Highlight videos of thorn maker have millions of views when he was in high school calling him the next KG, the next KD. Just like there's

millions of views on Zion in high school of Imani Bates now, of Jalen Green and guys that aren't even as good as them in high school, have lots and lots and lots of interest in followers behind them. So there's clearly interests in

youth basketball that there isn't in youth baseball or even youth football. College football obviously is huge and high school football is obviously huge in parts of the country, but not necessarily on social media. So there's clearly interests in people watching young basketball players. The problem is for the NBA is if you're looking at this as a pathway to someday be making money off of it, you can't even monetize your own highlights right now, your own NBA highlights or stuff that happens on social media that people are interested in. And that's where the NBA is so insanely popular on Instagram, on YouTube, on Twitter,

on Twitch, on all these social media channels. It is very challenging to monetize and make money from people watching your stuff there. So for the NBA, how can they turn around in if they are owning and investing in younger players and their games and their development, how can they then make money from that? And that is one area that I'm going to be very, very interested in watching and monitoring over the coming years because otherwise, otherwise, it'll be interesting to see if they turn their back the other way and say, you know what, we're going to pull the plug on this and have it that be the way it was before, where everybody else, AAU, high school, college was the one making these investments into young players until these guys were ready to actually

enter the league. So for the NBA, that is the key thing I'm looking forward to moving forward from a business perspective. I wonder how many times Jalen Green will be on TV next year. I mean, nobody knows if they've got a TV dealer. If I'm the NBA, I want him on TV. If I'm the NBA, I want him on TV all 12 times. Right. On ESPN or ESPN2 or on different channels.

I want that on TV. And then it's a different deal. You know what I'm saying? Then it's a different deal. Yes. And I would also want, I would want it packaged with an NBA game too. I'd want it like ahead of, you know, a marquee matchup. you know, if you got Lakers Bucks, you know,

the first game since the finals tournament in August, right? The first rematch, I want Jalen Green on right before that. Oh, you know what? To your point, Keff, if you would have told me that Lamello Ball was on TV tonight, I'd have gone out of my way to watch it. Same with R.J. Hampton. Just because you want to see them. You know what I mean?

As somebody that cares about the NBA draft. And it's only because right now those games are streaming. And streaming is, like, more. and more people are cutting the cord across the country, but it's still not a significant amount enough that people are always watching on YouTube, on YouTube TV or something like that. You have to seek it out. You have to seek it out. It's not yet as easy or as accessible for you to turn on your TV, just turn on the TV, flip to Channel 4, channel, whatever channel you have to watch a game and watch. It's not that simple yet for most

people in the country. And someday maybe it will be as younger people like your son are turning into consumers at 18, 19, 20 years old and that's normal for them. Maybe it will at that point, right? I think so. But I don't know. We'll see. Do you think your son in the 10 years will be, will it be the same for him to find something to stream live as it is to turn on the TV? Is it equal? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Interesting. Yes. Interesting. Yes. Including a live show, not Netflix, not No Hulu or anything. Okay.

We have hurtled that way so quickly. You know what I mean? Because of your kids. No, no, no. I'm saying the world has. Oh, look, Kevin, let me tell you something. My kids, they are 10 and 6, okay? They could not tell you one TV show that comes on at a certain time.

outside of wrestling my son could tell you that and that's just because it's called Monday Night Raw outside of that and he wouldn't be able to tell you what time it comes on he wouldn't

there's not one television show like that's just it's just a different world than what we grew up in me and you but I think that that's what I mean I mean like people right now aren't watching TV live they're choosing when they want to watch it

and and I what I mean is if there's a game on at 7 o'clock only on Facebook. It's only streaming on Facebook. And like the eyes of a 10, 11, 12 year old kid right now, it's that as accessible as turning on the TV at 7 o'clock for the show that you want to watch each week, the game that you want to watch live or whatever it may be. Is it equal in the eyes of a kid right now who was someday going to be an 18, 19, 20 plus year old consumer who spends money and invest into watching live games. Is it equal right now for those young kids?

I feel like we need to do like a second-old. Games is going to be different, but what I will tell you is, I've got this a great example. So Monday night, raw, right? Like, because of the quarantine, my son stopped caring about wrestling,

but now because of the quarantine, he's got all his wrestlers back out. And so he's kind of caught up and we watched WrestleMania together and whatever else. So it was on on Monday, and it's something that's on. And so it's gotten his interest again, right? It's the only thing kind of still going on in a storyline.

And so Tuesday morning as I was doing work in the other room, I said, hey, man, I see, you want me to turn on Raw in here? Because we had taped it the night before, right? Kevin, he had already watched the highlights. This is by the time I woke up in the morning. He had watched the highlights. He goes, I already saw it. So what the hell you mean you already saw it? He watched it on YouTube.

he watched the highlights on YouTube, like a condensed whatever, 15 minute thing. He does that with every Grizzlies game so that when I wake up in the morning, because I don't get home until late after the games, when I go in and he's sitting at the breakfast table, he'll already know everything that happened in the game.

He watches the condensed versions of them on YouTube. That's one thing that the NBA has been smart to do this season. The NBA is the one uploading those guys. games. It used to be like other channels, like, you know, Dawkins, like RIP to a lot of the original people who used to upload highlights to YouTube and all that. It's now the NBA that is sort of, you know, stomped their foot down and said, we're going to control this and we're going to be able to make money off of it as much as it can be with advertising money on YouTube and other places. So it's very interesting to me that that's the way that your son is consuming.

No, it's truly unbelievable. Yes. Like so he's like could he watch, does he watch live ever at night like 7.30, you know, at night? Does he stay up for? He does? Until my wife makes him go to bed. Okay. And then he picks it up in the morning. Correct.

He doesn't see how the game ends. And then unless it's like a huge game or unless it's like a Friday night, right? He's got to go to sleep. So, but then by the time I get up in the morning, he will be able to tell me everything that happened in the game. It's unbelievable. Truly. Cool. You know what I mean?

Does he have a cell phone? He does not. Okay. Not yet. No. Not yet. Soon enough, he's going to have that little screen in his room and he's going to be

streaming the games on his phone. Yeah. I mean, he watches, but I mean, like he, they are, they also know so much more like him and his little friends,

you know, like, because when I go to like their basketball practice or something, I mean, they know, they know so much more, you know, there are downsides to it.

But it turns, of, you know, lack of knowledge as a sports fan and awareness of everybody in the league and what's going on and this guy getting traded and whatever. I mean, it's crazy. It's truly crazy. How accessible everything is. Like, you know, you sound old when you say, like, when we were growing up, I mean, I had to get up in the morning and flip on like SportsCenter and wait for the scroll to come

across on the bottom. That's the only way I knew if my team won if I went to bed. before it was over. You know? You're waiting for a scroll. Sometimes sometimes when I would wake up in the morning before school, right? I would like cover the scroll at the bottom because I wanted to wait for the highlight. I would like use my arm to cover the scroll because I wanted to see the video of it.

It's unbelievable. I didn't want it to get spoiled for me. I know. You know? And like, by the way, just since we're on topic about watching highlights in the morning, when it comes to the NBA calendar, right? Right now it's October to June. And with December to August is that alternative way to have the season,

which is a possibility, it could change to that. If it's December to August, the counterpoint a lot of people have had for that is people go on vacation during the summer. Families go on vacation. And first of all, like, that is clearly true. Families do that. But I do think it's, I think that's, serves more investigation to find out which families are going on vacation.

And if that actually makes a hit on the NBA demographic that is watching games live or that is consuming games. But I would also add this, though, going into summer, you know, if I, if I were a 10-year-old kid and I had been able to watch West Coast games at night instead of like school, you know, being in school in May and junior in the playoffs, I would have consumed a heck of a lot more basketball. as a young kid, if those games had been played in July and August over summer break. And I think for the NBA, right now, even if games are still on at 10.30 at night, I would be willing to bet you're going to see a lot more kids watching basketball later at night. That would just be my assumption. It's only my individual experience, but I know that from talking with my friends that, like,

when you have school in the morning, your son doesn't stay up to watch the Grizzlies. He does not. You know? But, like, he would stay up and watch the Grizzlies. if they're, you know, like regardless, if we're in July, oh, no, it's like, if it's an East Coast game. So you got to remember those start at like six or six 30, then we'll let him stay up to the end of those.

But outside of like weekends, yeah, rarely. It's summer, if it's summer vacation where those big playoff games are happening, 100%. A lot of parents are going to be like, of course stay up. It's summer breaks, you know, I'm glad you're just home and safe. I agree with that. That's the best, that's the big thing. I think about as an incentive to change the schedule.

And by the way, like, it might not work. It might not. But I would bet if you have a great product, which the NBA damn sure as hell is in the playoffs, it is in the postseason. Kids are going to watch and more people are going to watch when they don't have to wake up for school in the morning. No, there's much less griping over bedtime.

No doubt about it. During all this stuff. You know what I mean? Even now, because it's felt like, summer. I mean, like, in my case, I don't know how it was with a lot of people that are listening. In my case, my kids were on spring break when this all started. And they've never, and they never went back to school. And yesterday they called off school for the rest of the school year. So they never, I mean, they've been home for a couple months now. How are you doing? It went from spring. How's the family

doing? Yeah. They're great. No, I mean, look, I mean, it's obviously not being able to go anywhere stuff. But, you know, everybody's learned how to ride a bike and I'm very lucky. I would have gone shout out to everybody with very young kids. I would have gone insane. But they're 10 and 6. So they're fun. And they're able to. Those are good ages. Yeah. I'm at a great age for this to be happening. They also can entertain themselves. They can also take care of themselves. Like, I ain't having to weight on them, hand and foot. And but so I, yeah, not. It's been, it's been much better than I would have thought. It has felt a lot like summer, except that we don't get to go anywhere.

Especially at age 10. That's like the perfect age. Oh, it's the best. Not quite old enough to have some like angst. No. No, there is no. You know, still fun loving. And they'll still do everything.

They'll still do everything you say without talking back. You know what I mean? Exactly. And they still feel bad if they do wrong. it's great. I love it. I'm really glad though. How's your wife doing with all of it too?

I mean, look, she was a stay at old mom until they were both of school age, you know? So she's been through this before. And I mean, look, you still go baddie sometimes just because it's like,

you know, I mean, it's only natural. I mean, this is a huge change for all of us. Yeah, right. Everybody that's going through it,

it's like, I've said this on the pod before, but this past year for my mom and I, like it's constantly felt unreal. And that's a feeling that I've gotten used to. This is just a continuation of everything for me, you know? You've had the weirdest year ever.

I mean, my mom and I, like we had a conversation maybe last week or something like that. And she's doing pretty well, uh, with everything. And as am I, I feel like being together for us is helpful.

But I said to her, would you be, how shocked would you be if I told you like last February that over the next year your husband's going to get diagnosed with cancer you're going to have open heart surgery he's going to pass away from cancer and then there's going to be a pandemic that forces people to stay home for for potentially months and thousands and thousands and thousands of people across the world die from it and like we we both sort of chuckled at that last part because it's like at that point you would not believe it you know

Because what's happening right now, more than anything else, like that we've personally went through the past year, like, this is the part that's most unbelievable at all, of all that we're all around for this. Because it affects literally everybody, literally everybody. It's wild, man. Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I just wanted to make sure you were listening to podcasts on Spotify. Here's how you do it. First, search for your favorite podcast on Spotify's app. They have a library of over 750,000 podcasts at this point.

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Tell him, Drunk Bill, the Bill Simmons podcast. Listen on Spotify. Last thing before we get out of here today, because we are going to dive deep into the draft guide in these next couple of weeks. But I do want to ask you, you did go out on a limb. You had previewed us and told us that Killian Hayes was going to be the number one player on your big board. What have you gotten the most response to since posting your big board? Definitely, Killian Hayes, first of all.

I mean, people like, Ah, Killian Hayes, that's bold. Or people are saying, you know, that's a bit of a reach. How can you choose him

over Lamello and his transcendent passing? Secondly, I would say it's easily, Tyrell Terry, the guard from Stanford, who I have ranked eighth. It's high as compared to your peers, for sure.

Sure. And I've gotten some comments that are saying things such as like, ah, I like him more. than a lot of other people do, or I have him ranked 14th or 15. So there's some people that have them ranked in the top half of the first round. But for the most part, a lot of people are just shocked by it and question why. And I think as I'm pretty sure as we hit last week's show and earlier this week,

I just think this guy, you know, granted he's small at 6-2, you know. I think with him, he plays a lot bigger than his size. And I think with his with his shooting ability over 40% from, 30% 3 point shooter with his ability that he shows as an at-room finisher and his improving handle and his high IQ and he's a really good kid who competes hard and plays hard and works hard. These are ingredients that I look at as somebody who is going to be a successful perimeter-based player in today's NBA. And you can value other guys differently or have priorities for some other players ahead of that. But Tyrell Terry to me is a guy that I want to bet

on in this year's draft. Yeah, there was one that was lower than than stood up to me. No, he'll be topping at 11. He's gotten some pushback. Yeah, you were lower on him. Oh, it was the Mannion kid from Arizona. You were lower on him than most boards. Yes. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think Mannion is in the 20s for a lot of people. Oh, okay. You know, but for me, I have Nico Mannion, Arizona freshman rank 25th. And he, you know, what's interesting is he's been one of the people bring up when they also bring up Tyrol Terry. They're like, well, what's the big difference between these two? You know, Manion at 25, Terry at 8. And it's a fair conversation to have. Manion being a better

passer at this stage, but I think you put the two next to each other. Terry is a better defensive player. He's a better at-room finisher. He is a better shooter. I would just value those qualities collectively over Mannion's clearly superior passing ability. Manion is worth a gamble, like in the back of the first round. Because if he figures it out as a ball handler and as a score, the passing will activate. So there's a lot to like with him. To me, I would be asking, instead asking the question, Mannion and LaMello ball, you know, two transcendent, potential transcendent passers

that have some limitations as a scorer. Those are the guys that I would put in the same bucket, not Terry and Manion. They're different types to me. Knowing that this was on the way, I started to talk more people about the NBA draft and just trying to get a feel from people that I think are wiser than I. And of course, I love your having Killian Hayes, number one. I love going out on the limb. I love having a bold opinion on that.

And then you see how it plays out. Sometimes you, sometimes you're going to be right. It doesn't feel bold to me. Okay. I don't, you know, it just doesn't feel bold. Okay, this is what I'll tell you. Everybody I have talked to, and I actually started to feel like there was a distance between the whoever is three. Everybody I've talked to would either take Lamello or Edwards one and two. Nobody said Wiseman.

Like one or the other. Nobody said Wiseman. Nope. Huh. Interesting. Very interesting. Edwards and Ball were the two. In terms of people I talked to, Edwards and Ball were the top two. Like some people like Lamello, some people like Edward.

But I didn't get anybody else as a number one pick. So I don't, I mean, again, this is, this is a hard year to have very strong opinions. And that's why I love you thinking it's not that big of a deal anyway. I mean, and seen a lot less than of Lamello than, right? Like, I mean, there's just, we've seen less of him, even though we've been aware for so long. and Edwards I mean I saw him several times

the kid is built like a brick shit house you could have put him in a NBA jersey last year and obviously great with his left shot looks great I mean look that that's what I'm saying so I love that you are out there with Killian Hayes he might end up being the best guy I don't know you might be right about that

we'll see who knows who knows I'd bet on him as the best prospect, but who knows? All right. Do you see any circumstance in which you change that? No, not at this particular moment, but there's always things that you can find out, whether it's injury or a bad piece of intel. But right now, no, I mean, I think for really,

for Lamello Ball, for me to move him up to number one, I would need to feel a greater level of confidence with his permanent jump shot. and I'm not sure that answer will come over the coming months. And by the way, the draft in all likelihood from the executives I've talked to this week, in all likelihood it will be in August, that it will be moved from the current June 25th date and then it would be moved until August anyway. Even if the season gets canceled, even if that were to happen,

my perspective here from talking to teams is that it will get moved to August because teams will at least want to have the opportunity to have some type of chance to see these guys work out even in some socially conditioned setting. Teams want to see you guys live. And for Lamello Ball, that's a time and place that he's going to need to prove himself as a knockdown three-point shooter off the catch and off the dribble. Kevin, have a great weekend. Thanks to Bobby Wagner, as always, for producing another episode of The Mismatch.

If you dig what you're hearing. Go give us a rating. Five stars. Five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you on Tuesday.