The Ringer NBA Show - Jameer Nelson on Mental Health, Playing With Dwight Howard, the G League, and More | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

Logan and Raja are joined by former NBA All-Star Jameer Nelson to talk about growing up in the Philly basketball scene (0:30), his struggles with mental health and supporting Delonte West in his recovery (9:30), playing in Orlando during the Dwight Howard years (19:17), his new position as assistant general manager of the Delaware Bluecoats (43:30), and much more. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Jameer Nelson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join author and former vibe editor-in-chief Danielle Smith and Black Girl Songbook as she celebrates and uplifts the talent of black women in the music industry. Tune in for in-depth discussions with your favorite songwriters, producers, and artists, as well as anecdotes from Danielle. Plus, you'll hear the songs of Black Women who changed the landscape of American music forever. Check out Black Girl Songbook exclusively on Spotify. What's popping? Real Ones, Logan Murdoch here. Raja Bell.

Raja, we have a special guest on the show today. No doubt. an all-star a finals appearance. Now is the assistant GM for the Delaware Blue Coats of the G League right now. They have a championship game today against the Lakeland Magic.

Yes. Jamir Nelson is here with us. Hey. What's happening to, Jamir? How you doing? What's up? What's up, fellas? Appreciate y'all having me on.

Hey, listen. So, first of all, thanks for carving out some time on what's got to be a crazy day, man. But quick story, Logan. Like, I was a young, fledgling NBA player in Philadelphia, kind of living by myself on CityLine Ave.

And there happened to be a really good college basketball team, I don't know, within walking distance of my apartment. So I used to mess around with Desmond Brown and go over and watch Jamir and Delante and the St. Joe's team get busy when he was, you were young. What years were those for you, man? So I was at St. Joe's from 2000 to 2004.

So that was probably when we were good, It probably was 2003 to 2004 when you were there. Yeah, that's what's up. We used to go over there and watch these boys get busy and the hawk flapping his wings. You know, it was a vibe, though. St. Joe's basketball was a vibe back then. It's crazy.

I remember that. So I remember Roger coming to the games. And I'm like, you know, because it's not, you know, it's not rare to see an NBA player at your games, especially at a small school, like St. Joe's, which holds, what, 30 at the time, probably like 3,000 people. You know what I'm saying?

You know, he was there in the trenches. I'm like, damn, that's Roger Bell. I got a good game. Hey, dang, Roger, your name ring bells in Philly, Val. His name rang bells in Philly, Jemir? He had a bus for sure. He had a buzz.

I've seen him on campus a couple times. How was Philly basketball during that time, man? Because that's like 2001, I guess when Roger was talking about that, and that's when those sixers are going to the finals. Y'all are starting to bubble, Jemir. How was Philly basketball around that time? I mean, Philly basketball has always been great, man.

I mean, I think, you know, because we're so close to New York, we all always play second fiddle. But, you know, during that time, the buzz was crazy with the Sixers. You had us who was playing really well. I mean, just it's always good with the Big Five, you know, the Big Five in the City, all them games at the Pellestra. So, you know, you know, Roger Pickett. the good time to be a sixer and be able to go to some some cheap college games and see some good players.

Yeah, that's what's up. I forgot about the big five. We would go down and watch, you know, all of that. It was great basketball in the city. It's corny, Jemir, but I'm going to do it because, you know, we had Q Rich on. And I asked him the question about best basketball. And obviously Chicago is he's taking any five out of Chicago, I think, was his quote. And you just alluded to, like, New York being so close and getting a lot of shine.

but, you know, Philly, pound for pound puts out a product. Like, are you going to rep the town and say, like, we got the best basketball? Like, pound for pound, or are you going to get a nod to somebody else? Well, first of all, really, I'm, me personally, I'm from Chester, which is south of Philly, right? Right. But I'm, it's funny. Like, we're 20 minutes away from Center City, and I was, like, one of the first dudes accepted in Philly from Chester. That's where my grandfokes are from Westchester.

They lived out there in Westchester. Yeah, that's different, though, Roger. That's Westchester, Texas. Yeah, that's different. Come on, Roger, bro. You're always different. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that.

But not, but not getting back to the question. I would say, man, like, we're up there for sure. I can say this. During my time, high school, coming out of high school, I wasn't really ranked high, like a lot of these New York guards who, I'm not going to say any names. If y'all want to go back and look at the history, all these guards are ranked high.

to me. And every time I seen him, AAU, you know, I tore him a new one. I just made sure I had to, you know, not even like I was like proving something to him. I just wanted to go play and be me. And that's what I did. And next thing you know, it's like, what's all the hype? You know what I'm saying from these guys? They're good players, nothing taking nothing against them or away from them. But I felt like I was just as good or better than these guys. How was it playing when that St. Joe's team with Delante West? What was that like? You know, you guys? get the number one seed. You guys ball out from St. Joseph's. How was that to, you know, forge that relationship and force that bond with Delante during that time? It was cool, man. It's funny.

I was just talking to one of my former teammates the other day, who coaches in the league. He was just saying, like, how we competed every day. Like, it was no starting group. It was no second unit. Like, it was like, all right, we're going to hoop today. We're going to go over our stuff. But we're going to compete.

And teams are mixed up. So that made it, that made the respect level even higher for myself at Delante and the rest of the guys on the team. Because, you know, sometimes you go in college, you know, certain coaches run their practice certain ways. And you don't, you don't get to go against the best guys every day. You know, we were face up every day. And I think that made the games a lot easier for us. I mean, we, we had a mutual respect. We had mutual love for each other.

You know, when we stepped on the floor together, like I said, like, I didn't care if he had the ball or vice versa. I mean, and the team is funny, like, we were only good because of other guys around us because they knew their role. They knew what we were going to do and they accepted it. They accepted it well. And they played their role. I mean, I can remember. I always tell the story.

One game's a line they didn't play. My teammate, my former team, DeWayne Jones, who coached for the Sixers. He was like, look, man, if you can shoot the ball every time, we don't have a chance. So I'm like, we're playing Xavier. They're like top 15 in the country, top 20, whatever. I'm like, I'm like, dog, I'm tired. I'm cramping. and it was almost like the Jordan flu game

when they was carrying him off the court. They were like carrying me off the court because I was cranking so bad. I ended up taking 34 shots. You know what I'm saying? I ain't make that many, but he's like, look, it's just what it is. There's knowing the role and accepting it.

And that was the type of team we had which helped us become successful. And I imagine a lot of cats at St. Joe's felt the way you just kind of said you felt about some of the other players in the country that were getting that type of shine. You know what I mean? like it at least seemed from the outside looking in,

like you all wore that on your sleeve when you played, like something to prove. Yeah, we had something to prove for sure. I mean, we, you know, we, you know, people would talk about the Atlantic 10 and, you know, all that, but Atlantic 10 was a tough league. We probably had three, four teams in there in the tournament that year. We played a pretty good non-conference schedule.

And we, we handle our own. Like, you know what I'm saying? So it's not like a team could say they were just better than us because we are smaller school, you know? We took it upon ourselves to look, you know, we looked at every game. It's like, yo, we're going to go smash these dudes. And it just kept going. I mean, it was like a snowball friend.

Next you know, we're 27 and up. That was always a fun team to watch. Was there an extra chip because, you know, it is St. Joe's and you guys, you know, you guys are coming from the school with the 3,000 seed arena, right? And you guys are, you know, you guys playing against these big dogs. Was there that extra chip because you was playing against them like that and being from a school like that? Yeah. Yeah, you can sense it.

Like, when you go to like, like, we play. Cal, we played University of Cal that year out there, they're looking at us like, like, who's these dudes with this, with this bird flapping? You know what I'm saying? You know, I'm saying? So, like, you know, like, on the West Coast, they don't really, nobody knows about St. Joe's, like, honestly, like,

but up until then, for the most part. So, yeah, like, dudes would look at us and then next thing you know, we get on the court, they're like, if these dudes go, who? Like, we, you know what I'm saying? You know, you got to bring, you got to bring your eight game versus. Um, did the, did the, did the, um, did the hawk get a scholarship

and does he have to flap or she have to flap the entire game? Absolutely. Both is true. Like you get a full scholarship to be a hawk and you have to flap the entire, like the amount of, the amount of physical endurance

that that hawk has to go through. It's crazy. Like it's you, and I had a female who was a hawk one of the years I was there, but you see them in the gym 24. Like, it's crazy how much or better shape they are than the players. Yeah, that's fascinating.

Yeah, that's fascinating. And what's the spot? Logan, one more. What's the spot right across from the back of the gym that has the gutbuster? Lars. Lairz. Y'all are your bag right now. Right now.

I know you played against alongside, you know, Delante. How has it been to just kind of, how is you guys have evolved, but how is it to kind of see him right now, kind of being in a bit of a recovery in his life right now, based on all the stuff that he's gone through. And, you know, I don't know how much you've seen it firsthand, but how is it for you to see him kind of being in the recovery stage with Mark Cuban with his mental health and things like that right now, Jermere?

Well, first and foremost, man, you know, mental health is real. You know, at some point, you know, we, we might be going through it don't even know it. You know what I'm saying? All of us have been through tough times. And, you know, I also want to give a shout out to Mark Cuban, who has extended his hand and done a lot of great things for Delance. I mean, it's been a collective group of different guys.

But, you know, Mark has been the one that kind of spearheaded things and, you know, put things into motion for Delante. So, but it is, you know, for a person you really care about, it's sad, you see him go through it. but it's also real. So you have to take that emotion out as much as you can to then help them. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I've tried to do as much as I can.

Coach Martelli has done a lot of other players, other, other, you know, NBA players, players, players association has done a great job. I mean, it's just the amount of support that he has is phenomenal. It's, you know, a lot more than people know. probably, I'm probably smelling the beans a little bit right there, but it is. And the one thing we all know is when you have an issue, you have to, you, that person, have to address it and want to get better. And I think that's where he is now. He wants to get better and he's doing a lot better of progressing in the right direction. Jamir, when we, when you were in college,

certainly when I was in college, the awareness wasn't the same for, for the mental health, you know, issues. And there was almost a stigma at times. attached to that, like, you know, if they would ask you to, you know, participate in, and, different, you know, therapies and whatnot. My question to you is when he was, when, when, when Delante was younger, were there any signs, like early? Was that something that you guys were aware of when he was young, just coming out of high school? Or was it a developed thing, you know, over the maybe course of pressures of being a professional and so on and so forth? No, we, you know, he just did everything similar to a normal 19, 18, to 22, 22,

you're a college kid. Made mistakes. I made mistakes. You know, you got them resolved. You fixed them. A couple bad tests, whatever.

You know, like nothing, nothing that we can say like, oh, we saw it coming. Because if we did, you know, and hopefully,

you know, if we saw it coming, we could have probably got out in front of it a little more. But no, like, it's real, man.

Like, you know, the dude, like, had a shorter career because of it. You know, he was, to me,

one of the most talented, two-way players. out there at the time. You know, he can, he can score, he guard multiple positions. Like, he's a dude that would fit into the modern day game right now because of his skill set. Right.

Yeah, but, you know, we, we're all pushing him, you know, trying to get him as healthy as possible, physically, mentally. And, you know, just the conversations I've had with them as of late have been totally different and, you know, much more of himself. That's great. Did it make you, because Rogers just talked about the stigma

of mental health. You know, I remember when he was going through it, you know, publicly during his career. And I feel like the conversation wasn't what it is now. It was more of like, it was jokes. It was more of like, you know, I never saw that, oh, Delonte needs to get help. Does it, did that frustrates you at all when, you know, he was going through that? That's your homie. That's your partner. Like, how did that, how did that make you feel when you would see him going through stuff? And it wouldn't be a, wouldn't be a positive reaction. And like, yo, he just needs help. It was more of you know, the jokes and things like that. Well, the thing is, man, like, like, Roger said, like, it wasn't, like, you see all these

universities and all these organizations and all type of, whatever sports you're playing, they have people on staff now that can help you through these things if you want to help. And nobody can force you to get it. But as an athlete, we're so competitive and we're so, like, I got this. I'm going to figure it out. it's almost like it's a chink in the armor. You know what I'm saying? Like, especially for African-Americans, like, you know, not to get on the race thing,

but I do think African-Americans, we go through a little more than other cultures when it comes to sports because we come from a different, the majority of us come from the inner city, you know what I'm saying, where we deal with things different. We see things that are traumatizing. You know what I'm saying? And we see we're here, like you grow up in Chester, like it's guns and drugs everywhere you go and killings. If I grew up where I live now, maybe, you know, my outcome would be different, mentally, physical, whatever. But you don't know how that stuff affects a person until later.

Like, so it may not have been just, you know, the person of being a professional athlete. It may have been a accumulation of things throughout his life that, that, that, that, you know, had triggered whatever has triggered in his body. That's interesting to think about just with the evolution of mental health and how people have

are starting to get, you know, help now with therapy and how therapy is way more accepted now than it was. Then you see that, do you see that evolution, Raja? Yes, most definitely. And Jemir just talked about having resources at your fingertips

as an NBA player. If you should feel any kind of way or you need to talk to someone. I think, you know, there are far more resources now because there's more of an awareness. But there's also more of a willingness for people to use the resources. Like, you know, when I was at Boston University, I went through it. It was my first time away from home. I was in a new place trying to figure out who I was. And, you know, my coach suggested at times that I go speak to someone, you know, on the sports psychology tip because they couldn't figure out who I was as an 18-year-old. But the point, I didn't know

who I was. You know, I was trying to figure it. out. But that was met with like a, fuck that. Like, I'm not, no. Like, there's, you know, but who knows? Like, that was the stigma around it in 1995. That was not even an option. I do think we've come a long way and the access to help in regards to mental health is way more accessible. Like, you can reach out and touch it. And NBA does a great job. They always have of providing resources for their players to stay healthy, both physically, you know, mentally and emotionally. So, Yeah, it's funny. That means not funny, but so I used the sports psychologist when my father passed when I was playing.

I think that was like 13 years ago, something like that. You know, I was in a space where when he passed, I was, you know, I never really dreamed. I never really, like, you know, cried as much as I thought I would. I mean, we had a phenomenal relationship. But then it was like, it's crazy. Like, we're playing Phoenix. You know, West Coast trip. four games.

I think we went either five and no on the West Coast. That was the last game with four and five. And I just broke down in the locker when I started crying. I had no idea why. I probably was, I never got, you know, diagnosed,

but I probably was depressed. You know, as much as, as much fun as I was having on the court and playing, I still had something inside me that had to come out. And, you know, it was suggested by my,

my, my GM, Otis Smith at the time, you know, to, you know, get myself right by seeing someone and, you know, we chose a guy in Orlando who has worked with a lot of golfers.

And, you know, he helped me out a lot. And to my teammates, like, it takes a supporting cast, man, like, my teammates surrounded me through that time. And they knew what I was going through. But again, it's like, nobody doesn't want to come up to you at the poppast. Like, yo, are you all right? Are you all right? You know what I'm saying? So, but when I started seeing the sports psychologist, like Stan Van Gundy was like, look,

take as much. time as you want, you know, do you want to be around the team? Do you not? He's like, if you come around the team, I'll just give you D&Ps. So I was like seeing a psychologist, sports psychologist getting DMPs, still enjoying the game, being around my guys, laughing and joking. And it was so crazy. Like, I don't know if it's psychological, but dude was like, look, on this date, you're probably going to feel better, blah, blah, blah. And like two days after that date, stand came to me, say, hey, you ready to play? He was in Chicago. I was on the ground, laying down. He's like, ready to play? I'm like, yeah, put me in. I played for the rest of the game.

I end up probably having like 15 points and like seven assists. And then I just kept working with the dude. And even still to the day, I talk to him every now and then just to check on him as a friend. You know what I'm saying? Just to, you know, because he helped me out so much. Like forget all the, you know, like he just helped me out like my everyday life and and all that stuff. So I do agree with Raj. Like you, you got to go see somebody if something's wrong. And, you know, you think you know yourself and oftentimes we don't. Yeah. All right. That's deep. I mean, even when, even, you know, even when I was start therapy, even when something, you know, isn't wrong, it's still probably is good to get maintenance, man,

just to make sure that you're good and that you're, that you're mentally healthy. Now, you talked about your NBA career. Most of that was with the Orlando Magic. Most of that was alongside, you know, Dwight Howard. What was that experience like in, you know, getting to a one finals and, you know, playing 10 years in an organization. What was that like for your time with the magic and with Dwight? Both great, man. I mean, Dwight was at the time, if I had the ranking, I would say top five player in the league.

It's all subjective. But the things that he did for that organization for that team, I couldn't see another player to do, you know, at that time, you know, he was the defensive anchor. He was a, he was a monster on the boards. and offensively, like, he just made it so much easier, like, to play four-out, one-in the way we wanted to play. So, you know, people don't realize this about the white is he's probably, he's probably the smartest teammate I ever had.

I know people see him as a joker and laugher and he play a lot, but when it came down to it, like, you can call a playout as an opposing team. He knew exactly what everybody was going to do. So that kind of helped him navigate through things on the defense. And that's why he was the defensive player a year a couple times. And just the organization, man. The organization embraced me as a young kid coming in. Like, you know, people, oh, he's too small.

He's too short. Like, they gave me the ultimate confidence to go do my thing. Like, I remember, look, they just said, look, just go to the basket, finish. If you don't finish, pass the ball. Like, just keep it simple. You know what I'm saying? And it worked, you know, where I think we, we oftentimes, we look at a guy and we always say what he can't do. Can't do this.

You can't do this. can't got to get better at this oh I look I ain't going left I still ain't going left you know what I'm so so my thing was like I'm just going to go right until I figure something else out I'm going right and I went right my whole life and they it was effective for me so like I to me it was like a perfect fit it let me grow and it wasn't like a big market like a New York where you know if you not playing well they're going to kill you you know I got a question though because I think it's It's interesting. You just talked about the four out one in, and I always felt like you guys were one of those teams that were really, really tough to guard. And a lot of what you see in today's NBA is you guys' fingerprints are all over it, right?

Now, there were a lot of teams like that that don't get the credit for that. But, I mean, you guys have to feel like you, the sons, like there were a few teams at the time that were playing like that. We're going to rim run you with Dwight or something that looks like that, and then we're spacing around it and playing. that's kind of what the game is today, no? Yeah, that is. It is. I mean, I mean, they make more, like the game today, the entire NBA makes less play calls, right? So it's more continuity and stuff like that, but it's similar because it's open.

Like nowadays, you got five guys out and the court is so spread out. You know, from what I can remember, the first stretch forward was Robert Orr. You know what I'm saying? He was probably like one of the first stretch, real stretch fours. And then in Orlando, we took it to a different level. a guy like Bashar Lewis who could play their three, but we put him at the four. Then you got Turk.

You know what I'm saying? Those two guys were interchangeable, both six, ten, handled a ball enough and make plays. And like you said, you had that beast running down in the middle. He had to be accounted for sometimes by two guys. And next to you know, you just hit the open guy. We had such an unselfish team and selfless team that it's different, man. It is a little different nowadays because you see a lot of these younger players

you know, it's me, me, me where when we were playing, it was us. Like, I remember going over the shard, like, look, man, you make the most on the team. You should go talk to coach about getting more play calls. And he's like, now I'm cool. I'll get it in the flow. You know what I'm saying? That was like, all right, well, let me come off this pick and roll and shoot at this. You know what I mean?

So. Now, I remember watching you guys play 0809, and it was frustrating to watch, because you guys were so good at it and it was something that I didn't see before. I was on the other side. I was Laker fans. So I was like, man, these guys are. so this offense is really, really good and it's really hard to guard. What was that 0-8-09 season like?

Because you guys came out of nowhere. It was supposed to be the Kobe LeBron finals. That's what everybody, you know, said they wanted, right? And you guys was like, nah, no, we're not going to, we're not having that. What was that, what was that run like for you guys during that season? I mean, we, we are, we, first and foremost, man, we a team that work. You know what I'm saying? Like, we didn't have a super.

superstar legit like Kobe or LeBron. You know what I'm saying? All our guys, not saying you can't because they work too. You know what I'm saying? But our entire team was filled with guys who were looked at from other teams like, you know, almost like we don't want you. So you got to give credit to do like Otis Smith for putting a team together like the high character guys, guys that, you know, put, you almost like it's like a puzzle. You put this puzzle together and you hope it fit.

And we did. But the run we had was special because, like you said, said, nobody knew how good we were until probably around All-Star Breed. And then it was like, we had the big bull's eye on our back. I mean, we had been good for a couple years before, you know, but not as good as we were then. And it was just tough. You know, it took a couple years for us to figure out how staying one of the things to go. But once, I mean, once we figured it out, it was like, I mean, shoot, we was out there, we was out there playing defense without talking to each other. Like, we just knew, you know what I'm saying? So we had,

that we had that bond that put us in successful situation. What was it like the series against the Cavs first when you guys, you guys end up beating him pretty handily, but LeBron hits that three in game two? Are y'all even tripping at that point? Or do you guys feel like, because it seems like they just got a one-one tie by the skin of their teeth. They got home court advantage and then you guys win. You know, you guys have a split, but it takes all of that, all of LeBron.

Mike just to get them to that split. Were you guys, were you guys phase when that happened? Were y'all tripping? Or was it like, we're going to just go ahead and win this? I didn't play that series because I was hurt.

I was still hurt at the top. I came back for the finals. But I was still around the team trying to be the leader. You know what I'm saying? And I just told dudes, nobody hung their head, but it was like,

it was like an old shit moment. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, a shot like that could change a whole complex, with a complexion of the series. You know, we had a strong enough team where it didn't. You know, guys continue to stay the course, Stan did a good job of putting out a game plan and executed,

executed it, and we knocked them out. I mean, it was a, you know, a feeling that LeBron probably didn't want. You could tell by his, he walked off the court, you know what I'm saying? You criticize him for that. But it's like, all right, he don't have to shake nobody hand. Like, after you lose, like, you're not outlegated to do that. But you could tell you, Saudi. You know, who wouldn't? You work, you work hard as a guy like him in the offseason

to get to the championship where he's been like nine times in a row or something crazy, like, you know, his career. So definitely he was upset, but it was a good feeling, good feeling for the guys. Did you know at the time, Jemir, you just talked about not being able to be on the court until the finals, but still being involved and being around the guys and talking to him? those are moments that I remember from my career where you were like, yeah, I would like to be involved with this game

in some capacity after I'm done playing, right? Like in retirement. Did you know that at the time or was that something that kind of snuck up on you post-retirement? Well, I always felt like I wanted to stay in the game. Just didn't know what. I mean, it's life, man. Like you were like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that.

And then you know, it's a curveball. You know what I'm saying? So just over the time, I had really good talks with Elton. And it's been like, three years. Like, when I first stopped playing, it was like he got on the phone right away. Hey, you ready to work? And I was like, nah, I want to chill, I want to chill. But then we kept talking. We always, we always kept it 100 with each other. And, you know, things worked out.

I had opportunities to coach. I had opportunities work in different front offices and things like that. But being it all from this area, it just made, it made it made more sense logistically, because I still live here in the area. And also the history of Philly to me is what I'm about. You know, I'm a blue collar worker. You know what I'm saying? It's going out there, proving people wrong my entire career. And I think that's what the Sixers are about.

I mean, we have a great organization. You got great superstars, young superstars, and Ben and Joel. You know, you just need to continue to grow and have pieces around them so we can win this championship here. What's been the difference this year, Jemir? Not that there was anything wrong in years past, but I think you guys are taking that step. You can see the team taking the step into that next conversation of playoff contender.

What's been the difference in your estimation? Well, you look at the landscape of the roster. Darrell Elton and Doc, they've done a great job of putting shooters around, you know, Joel and Ben and creating space. I mean, you look at Ben, man, like the dude is 6-10 and, you know, he's getting up and down the court like a 5-11 dude. You know what I'm saying? Like he's getting up and down the court making plays.

And Joel, he's done a great job of just keeping the game simple. You look at him, you give both of these guys credit and the guys that around him because they've shown a lot of growth and maturity so far this year. And, you know, it's going to take a lot from those guys, those two guys for us to win. but the guys around them have done a great job, like I said, of playing a part and even Ben as a superstar taking a challenge of wanting to be the defensive player at a year, guarding and best guys, night in, night out, and then everything starts with those two guys, offense and defense. And it shows in the play. I mean, guys, you know, it might take a year or two extra for a certain guy when a fan, like, I see Joe or I see Ben, they need to be doing this. what might take another year of experience for them to go over,

go through some things to become and do what they're doing now as players. I do want to give back to your career for a second. I do want to get to your executive career later on down the line. But back to that. Wait, no, wait, hold up, hold up, bro. Was that a shot?

That was a shot at me for jumping to the career. Jamir, did you hear that, though? A little bit. A little bit. That was a shot. That was a shot. Like as if I can't go off script. All right, fair enough.

It is what it is. It was. It was. Go on. Wait. It was in my flow. And you was like, well, let's talk about something else. I'm like, come on, right.

We don't get that in the second. But yeah, by the 0-809 season, Roger. All right, yeah. As I was saying. Right. No, but, Jamir, when you were going through that 0-809 season, you talk about being injured and then you come back for the finals, did it frustrate you all the criticism that came with that, right?

Like, you're playing and people were trying to pin the loss on you sometime at a little bit. Was that frustrating? Because, you know, you work your ass off to get back. And then, you know, you get the backlash on that. What was that like for you? And you gave me a little look like, I don't know what I mean? But like, how did, how was it for you to get that type of criticism?

Listen, man, if I, if I would listen, if I listen to what people say, I wouldn't be here now. You know what I'm saying? Because I was never good enough. You know what I'm saying? I was always too small. I was always whatever. So it's like, I really didn't care. I mean, the one thing I did and I went to every one of my.

teammates, coaches, DM, everybody in organization, and one-on-one had to talk with them, hey, I'm healthy enough to play. You think I should play. And to a man, not one person told me not to play, why I shouldn't play. Because if one guy would have said not to play, I wouldn't play it. So that helps me as a person because I did it the right way. If I would just be like, you know what, they're going to the finals. I'm playing. I don't care what nobody says. like I had talks with the doctor who did my surgery, had multiple talks with my wife, my agent,

and they're like, look, you know, something happens and you're going to get criticized. I'm like, I don't really care about criticism. I mean, I,

you know, the people in the locker room and the people that, that really care for me, is who I care about and what they think. That's what I care about. So, you know,

so, you know, it didn't bother me. It didn't bother me at all. And it still doesn't. It still, I just wish we would have won, whether I played or not.

That's what it boils down to. Like, if we were one, nobody would have said anything. I wouldn't have been an MVP. So why you know, my thing is like, you're going to criticize me for losing. Like, you know, whatever. It is what it is. It comes with the territory. Like I said, they'll blame, people blame, you know, people all the time.

But to blame, I got thick skin, man, and I moved on from it. To Logan Murdoch. Great question from a media member dog. But like the point is, I think he made a good, Great question. Jermar, I told the story about having to come back into playoffs, you know, not fully healthy as well, like in the Western Conference finals and catching shade for that.

But I think you hit on the only people that really matter in that equation or your teammates and your coaches, right? And if they're okay with whatever percentage you are and they feel like they need that, then you feel secure enough as the player to go out there and give them what you got, right? Because that's, you owe it to them. You know what I mean?

So, like, the rest of it is just noise. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how when I was doing my rehab, that's what I was thinking about, I was thinking about them. I wasn't thinking like, oh, I got to get back because of me. It's like, look, if I can get back and help the team,

I'm getting back to help the team. What I'm saying? So that's how I approach my rehab. Yeah. What was it like the next few seasons when, like, you have this team that goes to the tight, to the championship, you guys are a perennial Easter conference power.

and then all of a sudden Dwight says, I want to leave. Like, I don't want to, you know, I want to get traded. What's that like? Fresup teammate who was grown with this dude and you see y'all are winning. What was that like to see, you know, your star player being like, I don't,

I don't want to be here. And then go back and forth with that. What was it really like? Yeah. What was it really like? It was a split. It was a divided room, man. Like some guys on a team was like,

he needs to go because it was too much of a distraction. Some guys, or I should say the organization, said that some people who said basically like, we need them, you know, to continue to grow the organization. I was on the side of, I was in the middle, like, look, if that's what he wants to do, it's a business, he got to do what he got to do for his career. I, you know, who am I to say with, you know,

I'm not in the meetings with him and his people. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just know what he brings to the court. Would I have loved him to stay? And yeah, absolutely. He would have made my life easier playing basketball and a lot of other people. But, like, it was, it's for him to make the decision. I mean, to feel, he didn't feel like he could do it in Orlando and wanted to do it somewhere else.

And, you know, it was a different, it was, it was different feeling knowing he wanted to leave but still was around for sure. But the reality of it, we're professionals. You still got to go play. You still got to go do your job. you give me four other guys on the court with me. I'm going to try to help him win. You know, like I said, he would have made things so much easier. I mean, shit, he, I made a mistake on defense.

He's blocking somebody's shot. You know what I'm saying? We ain't, we ain't as much to that. So, but we still did our thing. We still played well. We still tried to, you know, I think we made the playoffs that went to one year when he sat out. I think he had back surgery and stuff like that.

So, you know, we still played well. We just didn't have enough. Yeah. How does it feel when you're, guy on a team, right? And, you know, this is your, you know, you guys were really close. Like, how is it when you, when you hear that, though? Like, I know that you, you said that you were in the middle, but how does it feel when

a guy, after you guys have success, says, I can't win with y'all. I can't win with, I can't win with, and a player on that team, he's saying, I can't win with. Does that feel slighted? What does that, what does that feel like? Yeah, a lot of dudes. I mean, I'll be, I'll be, I'll be lying if I didn't. I didn't feel like he wasn't saying that the guys around him wasn't good enough at the time.

You know, I mean, maybe we weren't. I don't know. We're never going to know. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, a lot of guys felt like, you know, he was just saying like we weren't good enough. That's what I'm saying. That's why I think the room was, like, divided and how we felt whether if he should stay or leave. Did him going back and forth for noise, you guys, like, just making decisions?

Because remember, he had the trade thing and then he signs the, the, uh, I think whatever the paper was to stay for the rest of the season and stuff like that. Did you, was there a point in time? How was that when that happened? Um, when he's like going back and forth where you like, are you like make a decision, Dwight? Or are you like, okay, he's back? Okay. It did take me for a loop, I guess, when he signed the papers, because up until that point,

we all kind of, you know, in the locker, when we felt like he was leaving. It's funny. I think we were coming back from San Antonio. I was sleep. I was sleep. I woke up. everybody, like, we're taking a team picture. I'm like, team pitcher.

Like, so I'm thinking like, all right, it's the last team picture. You know what I'm saying? Like somebody's going to post the last team picture or something. And next thing you know, somebody's like, yeah, he's signing. He's standing for the rest of the year. And you can see, you can see on the plane, like people, some people like, and then some people like this. You know, that's what I'm saying.

That's how split it was. It was just, I mean, like, honestly, coaches, like, people were like, because it did, I think, taking a play a part in, like, I guess drain people to the point where they were like, just make a decision. You know, whatever you're going to do, just make a decision.

Like I said, I was always like, I stay even killed. Like, who we got playing today? All right, let's go who. Like, you know what I'm saying? We're going to try to win. What was it like when you finally got traded for you that summer when I tried it to the Lakers?

What was, how did you get the news? What happened? I think I was at SeaWorld with my daughter. We was in C World on a class trip. And I think I was actually with Jay Will. White chocolate. Okay.

I was about mistake. Our kids went to the same school and he's like, yeah, you know, somehow we found out. And we kind of knew it was going to happen. We just didn't know where. You know what I'm saying? It was just like, you know, we just got to figure things out, you know, move on, figure things out. He's obviously a big piece to that puzzle. Still to this day, they're trying to replace them.

I mean, you can see that in that organization. I mean, just, you know, it kind of, in my eyes, it set them back a little bit. You get a guy like that in the draft. you watch and grow and then you know he leaves that's his that's his decision that's his business nobody can argue with that but if i think if they would have had it their way in Orlando i think he would have been there for his entire career did you know cold well uh jimir yeah so so why do you imagine that that didn't work because there were rumors that those two just didn't like they couldn't get on the same page mike was kind of out there dionni at the time so i had a little behind

the scenes into that. Like, what if from the outside looking in, what do you imagine it was personality-wise that didn't vibe with those two? I mean, from what, for me, Noel Cobb and what I know about him, he just didn't put up with the laughing and joking and all the playing. And, you know, he just, I think he just wanted Dwight to be a little more serious. I wasn't in that locker room, so I don't know the ends and outs of it for sure. But I just, just speculating and seeing and just knowing that the two personalities, it didn't

mix on the court or, you know, in Kobe eyes, Dwight should have been, you know, at a certain level or doing certain things. But in the white eyes, the white was probably doing what he should be doing and what he wanted to do. So it's two alpha-alpha males, you know, that butt of his. I mean, like I said, as much as Dwight was, he was silly, he was playful, that's just him.

Like, you can't take that, like, when he stepped on the court, it was business, you know what I'm saying? So I just think they just butted heads in that way. That's really interesting. I literally had a conversation with a kid in my youth program the other day about Larry Brown and the affect that you have and some people not being able to get over the fact that you're goofy or you look like you're chilling. Even though when the lights come on, you might do your job and do it real effectively. So that's interesting to hear you say that because I saw that with Larry Brown and Desmond Brown. Like, Desmond was a good player.

He just looked like he was in chill mode. And Larry just could not get over the fact that he didn't look and act the way he thought he should when the lights weren't on, you know? It's funny, man. Like me, like a lot of people don't know. You can ask all my former teammates. I'm always like the, I was like the class clown. Like, so we in film sessions, I'm saying a joke, whatever. Before the games, I don't get serious into the ball go up because that's just how I needed to play.

You know, I needed to be free. to be relaxed. That's how I went about things. And, well, when they knew when the ball was going to go up, I was going to be locked in. I was going to execute the game plan. And whoever was playing against me was, it was in for a dog fight.

I mean, they might get the best of me, but I'm going to give him what I had. So, but I think because the white, the magnitude of his, of his stardom, you know, people saw him doing it more out there on social media in the regular media and he got criticized

and truth not for that. I mean, think about it. Four hundred fifty players. You don't think it's a guy sillier than Dwight. We just don't know about him because he's not as good. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Do you feel like he was misunderstood during that time during, you know, like the 0-9, you know, he gets the shack criticism all the time, you know what I mean? It just every, it felt like, you know,

if I'm Dwight and I'm just saying this is who, I am and people are like, no, it's not good enough. Nah, you're goofy too much. You way too goofy. Do you think that he's misunderstood and that that wasn't warranted? That wasn't, he didn't deserve how he was criticized? How did you feel that, like, that he responded to that?

Like you said earlier, the only people that matter was the people in the locker room. And it was fine. We were fine. Like, we won a lot of games with him being who he was. so it didn't make a difference because when he stepped on the court, practice, shoot arounds. I mean, we all laughed like Stanway hate

sometimes in shoot around because we laughed and jokes so much. It might appear that we weren't playing or paying attention. When we got on the court, we executed that game plan. Like we knew exactly what we were going to do. You know what I'm saying?

So, you know, the whole shack thing and all that stuff, that's, you know, that's a different beef than, you know, then I probably know about, I don't know what the beef is about, but probably, you know, both two dominant centers come and being drafted by the same organization. Yeah, man, I mean, Shaq really has beef with him, though.

Shaq really does have beef with him. You have to beef with him for different reasons. Like, I don't, you know, I have to talk to Shaq about it. Look, man, I only go off on people with my relationship, my experience with him, I got a great relationship with Shaq. So I keep with that tag. I'm like, yo, what's up with you and Dwight? I don't even want to know.

You know, anything's paying my business. Oh, that's great. Hey, Logan, is it okay? Wait, I'm asking. I'm going to ask permission, dog. Can I get to the post career? I just want to one more. Go ahead.

Get to the post career. Because this says one more. Listen, man, I'm in my bag right now. Anyway, how was it, to put a bow on it, how was it when y'all beat him, like, right? Like, when you, when y'all came to L.A., how was that? the year after he left when he played when he was on the Lakers and you had a great game that

game how was that to be like I bet at first man I ain't going to lie to you man I had a lot of great game against the Lakers but anyway a lot of great games that's a Laker fan too so that's well done jemir well the year the year we went to the finals I think I average like 32 and like nine versus going the year and we beat them both times so but I don't you know what man I really don't even remember that game. I remember more him coming to Orlando and everybody booing him and all that stuff. You know what was going to

happen. And, you know, he was, at the time, he was a little sensitive because he felt like he did a lot for the organization, which he did. And, you know, I remember him saying like, man, he was pissed. He was mad. He was, he was a little hurt that they were born him and treating the way he did. And I'm thinking, like, this professional sports, dude, like, if you was in Philly,

you might get death threats. You know what I'm saying? like Roger tell you like my first time playing in Philly, I got a standing ovation and I fell AI. They booed me. I'm like, damn. I'm like, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, I remember the game in Orlando more than one in L.A. But it was no more significance in trying to win that game.

It was a game. Like, you know, people blew all the games out of proportion for a few years when he came back to Orlando. Well, I'm knocking the front. The first time I saw the fucking sons after they traded me, I was trying to kill everybody. I wanted it. I wanted all. It wasn't another game for me. Hey, let me ask you, Jemir, what's the experience been like? Wait, wait. I was funny.

Look at you, man. What's your experience been like? I'm fascinated. I spent a year with Cleveland in the front office. You know, it was a really interesting year for me. I learned a lot. Like, how's it going? You know, what's it been like for you so far? So it's funny, man, like that to me is the biggest step is just learning how things are processed and thought through on this side. You know, coming to it as a 14-year vet, you know, the one thing I told him, I said, look, teach me like I don't know anything. You know, I'm coming to you as humble as possible. I want to learn. I want to be good at this and I want to have longevity.

So I think a lot of former players, you know, we go into, we're so competitive, it's like, you know, you look at a dude. You just say I'm scouting somebody and I, you know, we're in a meeting and they say something about a good. And I'm not going to be combative. I'm just going to give you my opinion. You know what I'm saying? But I think a lot of former players get a bad reputation of thinking they know everything. And that was one thing I didn't want to make the mistake of because I don't know how they think. I don't know how they process things.

I don't know where all goes into it. But I'm enjoying it, man. I'm enjoying it. I'm progressing. I'm getting better at it. You know, I could tell you like my first week, I felt like, like a kid in going to the first grade from kindergarten, I tell my wife, look, I learned how to do this.

I learned how to do that. She's like, she's looking at me like, oh, well, that's good. I'm like, damn, she didn't really that. You know, but I'm lucky to have guys that are willing to help. You know, when I do hit a roadblock, when I can't figure something out, I just get right to them. And I'm not afraid, I'm not afraid to admit to them that I'm wrong or I don't know something. you know, having a guy like Elton in my corner and Darrell, Doc, even, and the list goes on.

I mean, it's so many guys that I look forward to talking to and learning from in an organization because they've done it so much longer than I have on this side. How was it, you know, this time during Energy League where it's, I feel like they're starting to be a shift. You know, you got Jaylin in the league right now and a lot of guys are starting to think. Hey, man, I could just go get some bread in the G league for a year and then go to the league instead of going to college, right? Do you think that there's a time where, you know, in the G league where it's the dudes are just coming out of high school and say, hey, I'm going to just play a year in the G league and get my development and then go to the league. Do you see that happening? Do you see that shift happening? Well, you can see that the evolution of the G league is like from where it started to now is totally different. like you're talking about dudes like these young high school dudes making uh for 500 grand

wearing a G league back in the day like the D league they were making like 18 grand like so it wasn't like worth their while they're like all right I'm gonna skip school or you know back in the day dudes like I'm going overseas I can make more overseas taxes or whatever but I love the way in the direction that the G league is going into like the games like I'm new to it like They was just saying, you know, people would tell me like, it's different, you know, you're going to learn a lot. This year, even the guys that have been involved in it longer than I have, it's just like, it's just, it's been a different year because it's so competitive. The talent level has, has gone up tremendously. And I think guys do see, like, the light of in the ton.

Like, you have so many guys coming from the G league who have or who have had successful careers and are having successful careers. So it's working. I mean, you know, it's always going to be a work in progress to continue to get better. But it's a product that's out there that's really enjoyable and sustainable. What's your favorite part of that job? And I don't know how many hats they ask you to wear. Like my experience, you know, I didn't do a whole lot of cap stuff. I hadn't really gotten my feet wet in terms of that.

But I was doing a lot of scouting. I was doing a lot of, you know, hands. on stuff with our team. What's your favorite part of the hats that you wear there? Like, which one do you enjoy the most, Jemir? I would say, you know, helping,

you know, I have a great general manager in the G league, Matt Lilly, great coach Connor Johnson, who, you know, who pretty much lead what we're going to do. Learning from those guys and, one, for the first time, helping put a team together. That was like,

it was like it was almost like playing a playoff game i had like hot like we had to draft it like what should we do we got our board together we're doing this we're doing that i'm like damn i'm helping these i'm helping make decisions like decisions that could help a kid or a guy become an NBA player help a GM become a NBA gym whatever like because that's what it's all about is this development and developing all around a board so and also the scouting like don't the scouting is fun it's fun to be able to finally talk crap about guys. And also give my opinion, you know, and my opinion has been valued, which means a lot,

because it could have been like, are we going to hire you? You're just going to put you to work. And then like, no, I mean, I've been asked to, you know, make some decisions or help make decisions that has been cool. That's what's up. That's what's up, man. So tonight, your team is playing for the chip this year. How does it feel to be at this stage already?

And you guys are about to be playing. And, you know, how are you feeling going into this game, man? I mean, I got told my guy Matt Lilly the other day and prospects. I said, look, we hear, we might as well win it. You know what I'm saying? Like in the midst of everything that's going on, you know, different climate that we all involved in with COVID, you know, guys been in the bubble down there in our last.

lando, short in season. Nobody knew how things were going to go. And I did. I felt like we put together a pretty good team that, like, nobody, you obviously want to win a championship and develop these guys. And you can see the growth throughout the team from first game to now. Started out, 7 and 0, lost the next few, put us in an adverse situation because probably had to win, I think, nine or 10 games to get to the playoffs.

So we did that, got to the playoffs. for the first time. And as, you know, one single game elimination, you win one, you win the next. I'm like, man, I'm like,

we might as well win the whole thing. We're here. Like, you know, you don't know when the next time you're going to get there at any level. Jamir,

tell me about Paul Reed, man. He's a G-League MVP candidate and obviously Isaiah Joe, two-way player kind of doing his thing or 76 is a signy, my bad.

Tell me, tell me about him. I know about Isaiah Joe a little bit. I'm not familiar with Paul Reed. Well, Paul, Paul, he's that that guy that can get you straight buckets. It ain't too many

MVP's in any league has been out there that hasn't been efficient offensively. We can talk about all the defense we want, but if you ain't efficient offensively, we ain't talking about MVP. But he has done a great job night in, night out, one, imposing his will, playing extremely

hard. You can see defensively he's gotten so much better in learning the schemes and learning what Coach Conner Johnson is once forming and what is expected of him. Because ultimately, when you get to the league, coming from in the G-League, you know, you're not going to get 15, 16 shots a game. You know, it's what it is.

You're going to have to play a different role. But he's put himself in a great situation or a great spot to allow people to see him play against pros, to see him do things, to see how he can learn and navigate through, you know, adversity. So he's an interesting dude because of his size and his scoring ability. I mean, other night, I think he had like three or four blocks, whatever. So like I said, like the things that he's doing defensively,

it's more important than the scoring because he, you know, a ball, he's going to score from game one to game to the championship. He's done a great job of learning the defensive schemes and things on that side. So we look forward to seeing the team play today. Before we get out of here, time for a real one of the week. you know, somebody that or an entity that won the week for us and that we want to give a shout out to. So I'll go first because it's light.

We'll go to Raj and then with Jemir. My ruin of the week is Wardle Steph Curry because he stuck his chest out a little bit after he won the three-point contest said, I ain't got nothing to prove, I got a lot to accomplish. I was like, all right, man, okay, I ain't seen you buck like that in a minute. So I was like, okay.

So, real one of the week for Steph Curry. Roger, who's your real one of the week? I like that. Sasha called me out for going football all the time. But I got to do it again. My real one of the week is one, Dack Prescott, stood in the face of the franchise tech, took it, was willing to take it again because he wasn't budging on who he was, bro. He knew his value.

He knew his worth. And he knew what the market said. And when push came to shove, he backed the Dallas Cowboys into a corner. And they came out with a four-year, $160 million. deal, deck press got a real one. I'm going with the Eagles owner, man.

He came out and made a statement finally saying like, look, there's no quarterback competition. We want J-1-Hurt to be the quarterback. And everybody was this big suspense like, party day drafts dude in the second round. But you see it now. You see the owner, one of them.

You know what I'm saying? So now we see, you know, here in the area, we have a vision of who our quarterback is and hopefully for a long time. that the owner comes out, says, like, look, we obviously need another quarterback or two behind this guy, but there's no competition there. Shout out to Jalen Hurst. Yeah.

Some real ones. Y'all really went football this time, man. You guys love, like, our guests and Roger love going football, man, on the basketball pod. Okay, for sure. Okay. But thank you so much, Javier, for coming on, bro. I really appreciate it. It was nice meeting you, man.

We're here every Monday and Thursday. Thursday. For the real ones, you can check out real ones on the Ringer NBA feed wherever you get podcast. You can check out group chat. You can check out the mismatch. You can check out the answer. You can check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell. It's your Vallejo legend, C-C-Sabatia. You can also check out Black Girl's songbook with Daniel Smith. You could also check out the Ringer NBA show with Charles Holmes. Wherever you get podcasts, we will see you guys on Monday. Hala.