The Ringer NBA Show - James Harden Is a Cheat Code | The Corner 3 (Ep. 363)

Episode Date: January 4, 2019

James Harden daggered the Golden State Warriors Thursday night in overtime (1:30), and Kawhi Leonard was showered with boos while the Raptors got throttled by the Spurs (29:12). Plus, NBA prospect Bol Bol’s college season is done after just nine games (45:30). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Danny Chau, Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Now it's time for the Corner 3. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the Corner 3. My name's Kevin O'Connor and joining me here back in Los Angeles. It's Ringer Associate Editor, Danny Chow. I'm here. I'm ready to discuss basketball. Let's do it in Dallas, Texas.

It's Ringer staff writer Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? Well, I've had a long ago already. I got up at 5 a.m. to play basketball. And now we're talking more basketball at 11 a.m. Central Time. 5 a.m. hooping? already? Yeah, normally it's not a problem, but in the game last night we're talking about it,

so I'm staying up to like 12.30 a.m. So I'm all over the place right now. It's like back to back for you, Charles. Organized game. How was your performance? How did you do? Terrible. I'm just here for the workout.

It's hard to play actual good at all the morning. That's okay. Get it back to back. We're going to kill it here. Today's podcast is produced by Bobby Wagner and recording this at 9.09 a.m. on Friday. So we're going to get rolling talking about last night's two national TV games. And what a freaking night it was. The Rockets beat the Warriors 135 to 134 on the road at Oracle Arena and overtime.

In a game, they had every excuse to fold and lose. Hardin got hurt early. Didn't look quite right when he returned. The Rockets trailed by 20 early in the third quarter as the Warriors were getting seemingly whatever they wanted the whole game on offense. The Rockets didn't have Chris Paul, Eric Gordon or Nene. The refs missed a critical foul odd-bounds. play on Kevin Durant of the final minute of overtime. Houston had every reason to lose.

And despite all that, Danny, Hardin led the Rockets to victory with 44 points, 15 assists, 10 rebounds hit clutch shot after clutch shot, one big pass after another, all culminating in the filthy, a filthy game-winning shot with two hands in his face. Danny, this was Hardin's regular season masterpiece. Yeah, it's hard to argue against that. I mean, I watched him drop a 50 point triple double on New Year's Eve, like I think last year or a couple of years ago. Yeah, I remember that. But that was against the Knicks, right? Yeah, that was the Knicks.

You know, so, yeah, I mean, this game was, it had all the stakes. It had the national TV audience on it. And there was so much hype building up to this performance because of what Hardin has done over the past 10 games. Over his last 12, he's averaged 40.1 points, nine assists, 6.6 rebounds with a 64 a true shooting percentage. Rockets are 11 and 1 over that stretch. They went from the 14 seed to the 4 seed charts.

I don't think anybody could have seen this coming from Hardham, despite the fact that he's been doing this for years now, that this is on another level, what we've seen. Yeah, he's just kind of taking what he's always done, and he's taking it like one extra step further. So really, to me, where it change is when Chris Paul went down with the hamstring. Six games go against Miami. And in the last six games, he's averaging 40.

but he's taking 18 threes a game. And he took 23 against Golden State last night. Which is one... Yeah, the record's 24. Right behind Clay Thompson, right ahead of J.R. Smith, who had 22 a couple of years back. Yeah, so the record in the season is like, right now it's Steph at 11.2. And he's taking like 50% more threes than that in this stretch. Yeah, I don't know what to say there.

Like, I think Charks had pretty much the perfect explainer for what this could potentially mean for the future of the NBA. He wrote a great piece on... Perfectly timed. Yeah, on Thursday. Could not have been better timed with that game coming and then the performance hard on had. Charks, do you think you could just kind of sum up the gist of what you were trying to say in that piece? I think it's just like by taking so many threes, Hardin just raising the ceiling for his, what he can do. Because we talked about in this game, he didn't even start off all that well. He just kept that. It's like the old thing about the spurs or like, oh, we're

pounding the rock. Like Hardin just like, pound the stepback three. Like to me, that shot, like that shot is changing the game. Like, I said in the article, like, I'm sure you think about this. Like, is it kind of like the new skyhook? Like, I feel like this could be the shot that kind of changes everything about whoever playing. See, the problem with the, like, I love the skyhook comparison in the piece.

But the problem with thinking about it, I guess anecdotally, is that Kareem was really the only one who could do the skyhook. I think that's where I tend to land with Hardin's stepback. I think with that move specifically with him, his combination of handles, footwork, strength, length, which you mentioned in the piece, and I was glad you did charge, like 6'10 wingspan, the ability to get his shot off. Like, all that combined with his elite shooting ability to hit these tough shots, like he can generate shots and then hit these tough shots, even the winner that he hit with Draymond's hand in his face, and Clay Thompson just draped right over his shoulder.

hitting that shot is something very few players can do. Very few guys can create it. So it's like Hardin is, to me, unique. Like, Kareem is one of the few guys who could do that. There's not a lot of guys who can do what Curry. There's nobody who can do what Curry does because he's what he is as a player. There's nobody who can do what KD does. And I think Hardin's really in that same category,

and he's just really one unique player. I'm not sure anybody can do what he does, but it's like you said in your piece charts. It's the construct of that type of player. So, like, Steph can get that many threes by doing it a little differently. So could KD. You mentioned Luca Dantrich or Devin Booker as younger guys who could grow into that. That's really the most fascinating point in your article is, like, some of these guys that are capable should be taking more three-pointers.

And Hardin and last night's game specifically, despite getting it off to a slow start, he's continuing to shoot. Because he can create that shot anytime he wants to. That's a good, I guess, worth pointing out, too, it's like it isn't just a stepback three. It's a combination of skills with it. So because he takes those stepbacks, then he also has the elite passing ability and ability to get to the line. And it's kind of like, it's like in baseball where if you have like a pitcher who has like one crazy like a hundred mile or fastball, if that's all he can throw, even the best hitters are going

to eventually catch up to it. But Hardin has just two perfect counters. And because I think it's crazy, like even if you did sell the top of the three point line, he can do other things off that. And that's what makes his team been so good over the last two weeks. as like Harder's got that three-point shot but then the defense kind of collapsed on him you can find the open guy

and then even then he can also get to the line if the shot's not falling. Yeah, one of the things that I found really fascinating about the article is just you kind of redefining what a triple double could mean. That's by the defense of that, yeah. Yeah, like, so in Charks's piece,

he mentions this new type of triple double which is basically attempting 10 3s a game, attempting 10 free throws a game and getting 10 assists a game, which essentially means that you are creating for both yourself and your teammates at a very high level. And another thing that you had mentioned in the piece, and I'm gushing about it because I really, really enjoyed reading the piece and editing it, was the idea that Hardin kind of embodies two different elite offensive players in the same body. Like he is both a facilitator at the highest level, but also a floor spacer at the highest level.

Absolutely. I mean, the funny thing is with him this year, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think he takes about 11 stepback three-pointers per game and like 0.8 catch-and-shoot. That's so wild. I mean, the disparity is unlike any other player in the league, and yet that's partially because of the product of what's happened with the team. Chris Paul being out for a significant amount of game so far this year. With Eric Gordon, underwhelming, James Hardin has needed to be leaned on as that on-ball presence who is taking step-back jump after step-back drummer driving after driving to drive to draw files, create spot-up opportunities for other players. But like you said, Danny, he can do it the other way, too.

He can play off ball. He can cut. He can spot up shoot. Hardin is a dynamic overall player. I mean, we've talked about him on this party. He won MVP last year for a reason. He arguably should have won it the year before, and there are Hardin fans who would say he maybe should have won it over Curry too.

He to me is, I mean, I've been rambling, you know, with Christopher about him for three weeks now, like just arguing back and forth. But to me, I think he's one of the most exciting players to watch the league. That's all a matter of tastes for people who don't like watching. I'm like, that's cool. But I just think there's so few guys with this combination of skills. And like in your piece chart,

because that's what makes him so special is the fact that he's one of those guys who's pushing the limits of the game, like it says in the headline. And in that sense, it's like Steph has done. James Hardin's doing it now. It's like, this is a different way to play basketball. But that really raises the question.

of how long can James Harden keep this up with his conditioning and his usage? I just wonder, this isn't sustainable. It's not, Danny, right? Yeah, I mean, I hope he... I mean, he's going to have to play in the All-Star game, but, like, I would hope he takes the entire break off. Yeah, take it all off.

Just chill. Yeah. Get your workouts and, you know, he needs to be ready for... Are I taking it off? Do you mean not partying, Danny, or do you mean... Good question. I mean, I would probably split at 50-50. He deserves it.

He deserves a little party time. You know, the funny thing is, is all the talk about playoffs and conditioning and carrying this into the postseason. Talking about this with Verno the past couple of weeks has been interesting because the response on Twitter has been mixed. Like, there's a lot of positive positivity.

Like people love James Har and people saying, oh, you know, I agree. And then there's people who like agree with Verno. Like, oh, he flops, he travels, he chokes. But after last night's game, it was a little different, right? Like it was nothing about flopping or traveling. He only went to the line, had nine free throw attempts, did not have a egregious travel or anything like that.

But the response was still also like Hardin's game doesn't translate to the playoffs still. And like he's had games where he's choked and he's had games where he struggled and the conditioning, you know, has declined as well for him. But I think really overall that's been a myth that Hardin's game doesn't translate. You know, you can look at the numbers. Like since 1973 to 74 season, which is the first year basketball reference, has the data. in the playoffs, only nine players have ever averaged per 100

possessions at least 35 points, five assists, and five rebounds with a true shooting percentage of over 50 while playing at least 10 games, just to have a larger sample size. LeBron and Michael Jordan have done it nine times. Kobe did it seven times. Katie and Steph have done it three times. Hakeem, Dwayne Wade,

Russell Westbrook have done it twice. And so was Hardin for two consecutive playoff runs. So Hardin's game not translating in the playoffs, I think it's a myth. He went to seven games. That's true against the Golden State Warriors. A team that won the finals and Houston would have won the finals if they didn't miss 27 consecutive three-pointers in that game

seven. So Hardin's efficiency does drop in the postseason, but so doesn't everybody, except for LeBron James and Michael Jordan. They're the two exceptions. The two greatest players of all time, their efficiency doesn't decline. But everybody else does, including Steph, including KD, including James Hardin. So with Hardin, yeah, he's been fatigued. He's had some poor performances.

but I think overall he's been unfairly criticized for player performance. It's the supporting cast that needs to show up for them, right? I mean, that's what it needs to be, sharks. Well, like what jumped up to me in last year's Western Conference Finals, it seemed like Golden State said, we're going to switch everything and make you shoot all your shots off the dribble. We're not going to let you get any kind of anyone else creating shots for you or any ball movement.

And his three point percentage as a series went on declined. So in game one of that series, he shot five of nine from three. by game seven he was shooting two of 13 from three and he only shot 24.5% from three in that series and that's what I would wander is like if he's doing this night after night after night in the playoffs and he's taking like 23s a game but he's only making five then I think there is some concern obviously

it's not as if like he just started dominating the ball this past 12 games either I mean before this historic stretch he averaged 30 points 8.3 assists 5.5 rebounds with a 61.2 true shooting percentage he was the reason why Houston wasn't like in contention for the number one pick, right? This is why he's in the MVP conversation now. It's his entire season what he's done, not just this recent stretch. So his usage has been extremely high.

I believe it's at 39% so far this year, which is Kobe levels, Michael Jordan levels. So Chris Paul needs to come back. He needs Chris Paul to return to the courts to just help alleviate the pressure on him over the course of the regular season and then into the playoffs. Like you said, Charks. But like that raises the other question. And you've written about this before. Chris Paul also hasn't been somebody who's been able to sustain success deep into the playoffs. Yeah, what I would love to see, like when I was looking at the story,

I'm at the Rockets, which is how to me is they really haven't had a front court player who can create offense since Chandler Parsons. Like, it's all guard generated. Because if it's not Chris Paul and it's Eric Gordon, like I wish if I was doing a trade for them, I'd want to find a bigger wing who can also be a creator. You mentioned offense and Clint Capel is not a score by any means. But he is one of the better rim runners in the league And I think the big difference

You know watching last night's game compared to the entire seven game series last year in the Western Conference finals Was Capella got played off the floor quite a bit And he wasn't last night He played 46 minutes last night He's playing a career high 34.2 minutes per game about seven more than last season His conditioning is on another level this year It's not the points or the rebounds or his defense that's more impressive It's the minutes

And I think that's where, in last night's game, when Golden State went small, Capella had the energy to continue defending on the perimeter, to continue room running, to continue boxing out and rebounding, which is interesting. I think for Houston, suddenly the conversation shifts a little bit in the playoffs. I'm not sure you're as worried about Capella getting played off the floor, Danny. It's kind of the similar situation that you saw with the Cavs in Tristan Thompson, where Tristan Thompson was like the key.

the series that won 2015-16. Yeah, Capella's effort has been amazing, and especially last night, his offensive rebounding was ridiculous. His third 20-20 game of the season. Yeah, that's the key for him against the Warriors. He's not size. You're looking at, like, a possession game that is...

I mean, the possession game is so important to the Rockets, especially because of how their offense runs. The fact that Capella has... I mean, he's raised his offensive rebounding by a significant margin over the rest of his career. And so him fighting for these extra rebounds, allowing guys like Hardin to create more, that has to raise morale. I think he's done everything that he can to improve himself and his team this year.

His passing is getting better over time as well. I think Capella's trajectory with his salary, five years, $90 million a Sunday, even totally guaranteed. He could easily turn out to be a bargain if he continues getting better, even if he doesn't get better, the level he's at today right now. The thing I would like to see with Capella, I feel like in a series you can scroll and state, I'd love to see like if they switch Steph onto Capella and they could throw it inside of Capella sometimes and take advantage of that and attack Steph's legs. I think that would leave me more pressure off Hardin as well. Oh, like Capella diving to the rim, like pick and roll, switch on the on ball screen. Capella then dives underneath the rim and he just throw it into him. Yeah, and I think it's like 5% and less energy from Harden in those plays because usually it's hard and just creating off against a bigger player.

but sometimes Capella should be able to attack Steph at least. And really that makes Steph a worse player too because it goes into his legs on defense. I think also with last night's game for Houston, Austin Rivers has been really good. Oh, yeah, he's not doing it. All season that they've had him. He had 18 points last night.

All week and a half. Yeah, about 18 points, four assists last night. He's grinding on defense. Rivers has been great two-way player for them. And then Daniel House. How about Daniel House though? Oh, my goodness. How about Daniel House, Danny?

So 16 points per game on 62% shooting in the past three games. He's shooting 64% from three on nearly five attempts in that span. 36.6% from three on the year too now. For a guy who going back to Texas A&M has always been a pretty inconsistent shooter, it's nice. It's good to see him hitting his open shots, open opportunities. You know who could use Daniel House? The Warriors. He was on their roster in training camp.

Yeah. Absolutely. I think the thing with Houston and entering. the year in right now for that matter. Their depth is a question, but they found guys Daniel House, who has proven that he is, he's the wing of these young guys between Gary Clark and Daniel House, Daniel House

and James Ennis too. He also kind of moved ahead of him too. Yeah, and Ennis as well, who was their free agent signing the summary, and obviously Carmelo Anthony, who's long gone at this point, Daniel House has emerged. They still need more, though. And Darrell Morrie told the athletic Sam Amick after last night's game that Houston will be

buyers, which is no surprise. They've been buyers recently. They need help. Chris Paul is going to get back at some point. Eric Gordon will return as well, as will nay, nay. But they're still a top heavy team. Charks, is there any trade out there that makes sense? You mentioned a larger wing or forward earlier. That makes sense for using to pursue and perform.

Yeah, I mean, I've been talking about this for a while. I've always been, I feel like Otto Porter is the guy. If they were really to say, we're going to spend anything we want to spend to win a championship, to me, a guy like Otto Porter, a big wing can really shoot it, who can defend, who can kind of, who can facilitate the secondary, playmaker. I want to see a guy like that on this roster. I think that puts them over the top. Like that's the guy I think if they actually want to beat Golden State, that's

a guy they need. Is there a cheaper auto porter? Because I think financially it would be extremely difficult for them to get him without giving up a Eric Gordon the trade. Because you give Brandon Knight's salary as filler. And then I think on top of that, you would need to add Eric Gordon. Is there like a young... I think I would do it.

I would do it. I would do a Gordon's board. You would do Gordon and is it because of the overlap? And like to Gordon is a guard like Paul. and Hardin. And then you also have Austin Rivers now too. Yeah, Rivers, I think, can take some of the Gordon spot.

I think it gives you more offensive diversity, having a bigger player who can kind of be part of this offense. Not all little guards. Okay, so I'm really bad at trades, but I've been thinking about Charlotte just because of how desperate they are to offload Batum. Well, you've heard Frank Kaminsky's available now,

so now you know what the straits going to have. Yeah, what if Charlotte's so desperate? They're so desperate. that if you give them the right offer, they might be willing to part with Miles Bridges. He has it. Multiple first round picks. Multiple first round picks.

And then just the Eric Gordon and Brandon Knight combo, which would work out perfectly cap-wise. Very interesting. Miles Bridges on the Rockets would be very fascinating. Nick Baton would just be another, you know, capable playmaking theoretical defender. I don't know how much he has left in that regard. But, you know, it would be two extra bodies.

Kind of like the Porter mold, but I'm not sure he's any cheaper. Oh, he's not. I find that idea fascinating. It beats a Marvin Williams idea from just another player from Charlotte. You know, another older guy, you know, he's been around for a while. You kind of know who he is. Miles Bridges provides that upside for

Houston. If I'm Charlotte, no, I wouldn't want to do it. But it's like, hey, it's worth texting. Like, hey, any chance Miles Bridges is available, you never know, right? The one thing that's interesting about Houston, like, they'll play rookies. Like, House is on a two-way contract. And as Gary Clark. They've already made Clark giving him on the roster and

we'll have to convert House's contract soon because I mean his 45 days are up as crazy as the sound while he's playing. I have a list of a couple other forwards. These guys may or may not be available. Just some guys who make sense theoretically. You mentioned Otto Porter earlier. Damari Carroll

a little older, declined a little bit but you know, if there's nothing else out there, if there's nothing else out there, why not? James Johnson from the Miami Heat maybe if they're looking to get off the salary. Small Ball 5 behind Capella. I'd be interested

in that, James Johnson. Oh, that's really interesting. How about Marquith Morris from the Wizards? Yeah? He's not a bad year, though.

He has. I'm sure how much. Maybe you can get him at a lower cost because he's having a poor season, though. How about Dragon Bender from the Phoenix Suns?

You're going to keep, you know, throwing this out there. KOC, I love it. Stay on board. Stay on brand. I love it. What does this really mean

for them going forward, though? Like, you get a guy like Dragon Bender and it's just like, Okay, well, he's a really young rental who you're not really sure you can play. They got a re-unite the Marquis-Kis-Rigand-Pick for him or something like that. That's all I mean. I'm talking low-cost guys.

It's unlikely they're going to make a splash. Well, KOC's thinking the Dragon Bender, Marquis-Cris, you know, odd couple. We've got to get them back going. Sure, man. That makes sense to me. One other hardened question for you guys, we're about a third of the way through the season. Is he your MVP so far? I think I would pick Janus for now.

I think Hardin's case is largely built on his overwhelming statistics, and I would need to see him do it for a little bit longer. How about you, Charks? Yeah, I think I would take Hardin. I was a Janus guy, but Hardin is doing the last two weeks. And how he's raising the whole team with pretty much nothing around them, I think it just speaks for itself. I don't want to let recency bias take over here.

First off, you always should do that. I know, I know. We're all about recency buy. I think I would give Janus a slight edge right now, but Hardin is just closing in so damn fast. I mean, and he could pass him. Look, give me a week. Yeah, give me a week or two, and I will very gladly switch my...

For sure. I mean, it's early. Like, things so much is going to change by April for better or for worse for any of these guys. But I think right now the top three is, in some order, Janice, James Hardin, Joel, and Bede. And LeBron probably plays himself back into that, you know, once he's, you know, back in the court. But it's going to be a fun race. I'm looking forward to the MVP race so far this season. Two guys you probably won't be in the MVP race, despite putting up big numbers because their teammates are Kevin Durant.

and Stephen Curry. The Golden State Warriors in last night's game against Houston played well. I mean, it's not like they had a poor game at all. They were getting anything they wanted early in that game.

Houston's defensive issues that they had early in the season were really apparent early on in that game. But they blew it. They blew a 20-point lead. It's another game where it just feels like Golden State has lost its edge.

Maybe not in the conventional sense of losing their edge, but they've definitely lost their edge in the sense that the one thing that made them unique amongst even the greatest teams in history was that they had three all-universe type shooters

on the same team, playing at the same minutes, who could shoot anywhere inside half-court, and they could trust those guys to maintain their efficiency. This year, they haven't been able to bank on that. Clay's having the worst shooting season of his career. KD's not shooting up to his standards. Even Steph Curry over the past, you know, 15 games since he came back,

hasn't been shooting at the level we know Steph Curry can. And so when you lose a lot of that three-point shooting, you know, a lot of the margin starts to slip away. If I'm Steph Curry-charks, and if I read your article yesterday, I'd be like, geez, I want to shoot more threes. I mean, he had 15 last night, but I was like, I want us as a team to shoot more. That's what I'm saying.

If I'm Steph, I want our entire team to shoot more threes. They right now rank 14th and three-point shooting frequency. They shoot the third most mid-range jumpers. I think they can shoot a little bit more threes. I think part of the issue with all their main stars shooting threes poor is like they're not playing in as much space. Like Houston, for all their holes around Hardin, all their guys can shoot just about in the rotation.

And pretty much they went about their center is just guns, threes. Whereas in Gold instead after their top three, they don't have very many consistent shooters. And it's funny, like, they signed to Marcus Cousins for his post presence, I think. But really, it might be DeMarcus cousins as a three-point shoot. It helps in the most when he comes back. I can't wait to see. I mean, I think we might have talked about this on a pod early last month. but I can't wait to see how boogie fits in.

I mean, even if he's only 70% or 80% of what he was, it's just going to be treating just to see how he's used. Is it as a post presence, as you said, Charks? I mean, they shoot a lot of mid-range. They're not afraid to go to the post. They use the post as a source for playmaking, where there's situations where sometimes KD or Draymond, they don't even look to make a move.

They're just looking for a shooter coming around a screen. I wonder if that's how boogie's used. But he becomes more of a threat scoring from that area, more than a Dremont or more than a Jordan Bell for that matter. I don't know. I'm just really interested to see how... But he'd also be their fourth best shooter, right? Yeah.

I think in the easiest way for them to kind of ease him in would just be to have him spot up at first. And he's, yeah, he's, what, like a 37% three-point shooter over the past two seasons, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, the big thing with Boogie for me is just seeing how he plays through what he thinks he can do on the court and what he's physically going to be able to do.

I think that was a lot of his tension during the King's days where he obviously had so much ambition and so much natural talent, but it's just his skills weren't necessarily catching up or weren't necessarily caught up to that. And especially with an Achilles injury, you're never going to necessarily be the same player.

So I want to see how he kind of adapts to that. Well, I mean, I think what I'm curious to see with the Achilles, like, Boogie has never played in the playoffs for, which is kind of crazy. in a playoff series. Stunning. Can he be a targeted, especially after his Achilles

and the pick and roll? I'm sure if he was playing against Houston, they're probably a pick and roll every single time. Absolutely. And if you get him stuck on the perimeter, James Hardin's going to be able to create against him more easily than maybe

anybody else in their end of game lineups. Like if boogie's out there at the end of the game with Draymond, Katie, Steph, Clay, and Andre Godala, boogie's the guy you're targeting every single damn possession. I mean, he might be like, he's probably their worst primary defender in the rotation.

period, right? Everybody else can kind of move out there. Yeah. I mean, even the reserves, Jerepco, McKinney, Livingston, those guys are all better perimeter defenders with Boogie, specifically, perimeter offenders. I mean, overall, if you're factoring,

boogie's rebounding, and when he's actually trying, you know, to protect the rim, he's better, but like, perimeter defense specifically, he's the worst in the rotation. And we're also just thinking about him pre-injury. Like, we still don't really know how he moves. One other, you know, note about their bigs, how do you guys feel about the recent

criticism of Draymond? Right now he's shooting only 23.7% from 3. Only 7.3 points per game on only 7.1 shots. It's a sister slightly down. It's partially getting fewer touches. Obviously, the presence is on that team. I feel like it's been a little bit

overblown with Draymond. It's like he's coasting. I mean, he turned it on, you know, last sign he can turn it on in the playoffs on the defensive end as well. And the offense, besides the 50s, 15-16 season. I mean, it's never been anything special on offense.

He's one of those players who is just a complete supercomputer and like his true value is going to be seen in the playoffs. And if there is a decline in the playoffs, if everything continues in the playoffs, then we can start being concerned. But the way that he game plans

for a seven-game series is unlike most players. And so I can't, I'm withholding judgment until then. For sure. I just think the weird thing for me that Dremont is like, clearly I think he's lacking confidence. I never would have thought Drey Munger would lack confidence. Right.

I wonder if that has made his shot even worse, right? I think for sure. It's such a mental game. It's definitely. I mean, it reminds me of Harrison Barnes almost in 2016 in that final series. Like, Harrison Barnes is a good shooter, but once you get into head about your shot,

it can go really fast. Drey Mons shot 39% from 3 in that 15, 16th season, and about 31% in all other seasons, including the playoffs. But wasn't that the Luke Walton season when he shot that well? Or Luke Walton coach half the season? That was Luke Walton. Yeah, I remember when...

Bring him back. Maybe trade coaches, Luke Wallen for Steve Kerr. That was what the whole blowout was. You remember that when like Drayman was yelling at Steve Kerr in the locker room? Yeah. It's because Steve Kerr is something to shoot fewer threes. And Dr. Mon was like, I got to play my game. I don't know.

We're going to take a quick break. And when we're back, we're going to talk Spurs Raptors. Last night, DeMarterosin continued to lose games for the Toronto Raptors since he notched his third triple double and the Spurs beat the Raptors 125 to 107. It was Quy Leonard's first game back in San Antonio when he got booed like crazy.

Fans chanted. Call him a traitor. Got a lot of heat as expected. Chase Serrano wrote a great piece in the ringer.com about that booing that you can read today. Charks, Spurs have the number one offense and the number five defense since December 6th

and they're 11 and 3 over that stretch. After a sluggish start early in the season, what's the number one difference you've observed in their performance recently? Well, I mean, I'll throw it back too, because you had a great article today, yesterday about the Spurs offense. I mean, I kind of thought they would, I left them for dead like in November. I did not see this coming at all.

Like, what's changed for them? I'm really kind of curious myself. I mean, I think what's changed is their defense has been better, which I didn't write about. I think their defense has been better as of late. I think that has helped them out, but their offense is also elevated to another level. They've been a machine, man. They've been absolutely kidding. At number one, and they're essentially generating any shot they want.

Right. And it just so happens what they're generating is a midterian shot. a lot. They lead the league and mid-range jumpers attempted, but I think around 48% of their field goal attempts are mid-range jumpers. The next closest team is Cleveland at 38%. So this is a drastic difference. There are very few teams in recent years that have taken that many. But what's interesting about San Antonio, and I think why this is working so well for them, is because they're not just jacking up mid-range jumpers all the time. They're only jacking up mid-range jumpers with Lamar de Rosa, two of the most mid-range happy players in the whole league.

If you look at the numbers, and this was, you know, I guess the interesting part of the article, about 24% of their shot attempts are threes with Alderman and de Rosen are on the floor with both those guys. That's last in the NBA. But with just one of those guys or neither of those guys, it's about one third of their shot attempts are threes with one or both, which would rank 10th in the league. So it's really about shot diversity. Yes, exactly. So they're shooting threes. We saw this in last night's game with multiple guys, just jacking.

up threes. But not DeRosen. Not Aldridge. The interesting thing about that, yes, is like, because you have two all-star level players

in DeRosen or Aldridge. And like in theory, if they're going to be having the ball inside, instead of compress the defense, they kick it out for shots. That's not what's really happening. That's kind of,

that's pretty interesting. And that's exactly what's happened. On Synergy, you can track data where you can look at passes out of a plate type. Passes from the pick and roll, passes from the post.

And with Marcus Aldridge, as of yesterday morning, there were 88 attempted shots off of his passes from the post, and only 11 of them came from mid-range, and first score 1.2 points per possession off those passes, which is great. Off of DeRosen's 217 passes out of the pick and roll, only 69 have come from mid-range, and 54 of those were to Aldridge.

So the point is that, like, Spurs are taking threes and layups off of their two mid-range-oriented players, as you said, sharks. It's just those guys who were taking a lot of mid-range jumpers, but everybody else, this team is playing their same quote-unquote beautiful game style of basketball. It's really just, yeah, it's kind of amazing. They had their very early stumbles, but I think it was mostly just pop trying to get everyone on the same page. I do want to shout out the defense because it's taken a huge step up. It wasn't that long ago when we were saying this is the worst defense in the league. It was one of them earlier on for sure. And the funny thing is,

their defense is more or less the same as it's always been. It's just a very fundamentally sound pop-run defense. So they do the basics very well. They always have, you know, a perimeter person, you know, always in possession, always in position to help down in the paint. You know, they drop the mark's back. So there are always driving links. They're being cut off.

But there's always someone who's going to be there to recover, always there to be, you know, someone to rotate off. And yeah, it looks just like a Spurs defense, except they don't have a single elite, quote-unquote, individual defender on the team. We were just talking about how Houston needs more depth and Golden State needs more depth. Both those teams have their top-end superstar players. Aldridge and DeRosen are great players, but they're not quite superstars. They're not transcendent talents.

That's what San Antonio lacks, but what they don't lack is any negatives in their rotation. They have a bunch of good players that are all receiving minutes from Bryn Forbes, who is a terrific three-point shooter for them, to guys coming off the bench like Marco Bellanelli and Jacob Perthal. Jacob Perthal has been tremendous for them this season. He's continued to improve as a defender since his time in Toronto. And he's also one of the most efficient finishes around the rim.

Just another smart player who knows how to execute plays, who knows how to be in the right spot on defense. He's finally in the rotation. Yeah. Let's give a lot of Davos Bertans, too. Oh, yeah. He's shooting 40.5% from three this season. Yeah, I think he's like top, top three in percentage.

I think they were shouting them out as like Latvian Dirk during the broadcasts I'm like alright let's cool it but you know I just think it's cool with San Antonio you know 22 and 17 this season we'll see you know

how much they can sustain this offensive surge and we'll see how real their defense is over the course of the year as they face more really good opponents like Toronto but it's just it's really cool to see Popovich's system still working because essentially there is no system he adapts his system

to fit the strengths of the players. So they're playing different styles on offense, and they're continuing just to, the system is the defense, as you're saying, Daniel. That's where it's like, this is the way we're going to play. We're not going to switch screens like all these other teams doing. We're going to keep dropping the pick and roll, the big man defender,

and we're going to make you force you into mid-range jumpers, force your shoot jumpers, try to protect the rim. It's just cool to watch. And that's the thing. With the spurs hitting on mid-range so much and them turning games into a mid-range shooting contest, You're not going to beat the Spurs in a mid-range shooting contest. Like with the three-pointer being so much more important,

if a game is dictated by three-pointers, then randomness rules. But in a game in which they can control the mid-range, the Spurs are going to take it. I guess if you go back to what we're saying earlier, they played the Rockets last week. And that's like the one example of the Spurs not being able to dictate that shot.

And Hardin took 19-3s in that game. They won by like seven. So that's where you see, if they can't dictate that shot, thinking that it might be in trouble. Yeah. And I think DeMarerosen, just one last thought on San Antonio, every season of his career, he's gotten better.

He's improved something. And this year, last season and during the year, he improved as a passer. And he's taken an elite this season with San Antonio. We had 11 assists last night, only three turnovers. I mean, I had to be sweet. He beat up Hawaii. I had to be really sweet.

He did beat him up. And Toronto right now is lacking their point card. They haven't had Kyle Lari. And I think they've had only one of the last 10 games, and they're five and five over that stretch. He was playing like an all-N-B-A, a borderline all-MBA point guard before this stretch, Danny.

What are they lost without him? It's just a guy who literally has star potential on offense. Right now, they're having to play Fred Van Vlead a lot of minutes, and he was a plus-minus star last year, but things have kind of regressed. Not quite as good this year, no. No, it's because, for one, teams have a better scouting report on this guy who,

came out of Wichita State, who they probably had no idea about. But two, he's a guy you count on because his floor is so high, but it's not because his ceiling is high. You know, so you can definitely count on him to not make mistakes, but you know, against teams that also don't make mistakes

that are also very good, his effectiveness is going to wane. And I think last night against the Spurs, the Spurs were basically just letting him run pick and pops with Ibaka because that was the only thing he could do. Yeah.

That was it. It's funny because last night's game, Kauai shot only 13 times. He made eight of his shots. And San Antonio was overhelping on him at times. Even, you know,

subtle double teams as well to get the ball out of his hands. And yet there are times it's like Van Vliet just jacking up shots. It's like, just get the ball to Kauai. Yeah, absolutely.

Just get it to him. And I don't know if that's the product of the system or coaching or Van Vleet just, you know, freelancing and doing it on his own. But I would have liked to see Kauai forced issue more last night

regardless of how the Wall's getting to him. I think only 8 of 13 Kauai was solid and I think he could have done more in last night's game. But the one thing about Kauai though is he's really not a high level playmaker. So like that's why Lowry's so important because Kauai's your primary option. I think he's in like two and a half assist a game this year or something. Like he's not really going to be a guy who creates shots

for everybody else. He's kind of get into his own thing. He's still too often he has like kind of tunnel vision on his shot. He's a solid passer. Sometimes good but not a great pass from any means. Not particularly creative. No. With Toronto, I think last night's game they also didn't have Jonas Valenciunis who would have been critical to them. He would have started in a matchup against someone like Lamarcus Aldridge.

Obviously, no Kyle Lari to have defending against, you know, Demardorosen, or even Derek White, who has been extremely good for San Antonio since returning to the floor. I wouldn't overreact to this recent stretch for Toronto. If they have those guys back, they're going to be a really good, really deep team. Also, Danny Green had the worst game of his... 0.3-7, 0-4-6 from 3. I just do wonder overall, if there's one rotation change, then they need to make. I mean, I'd like to say Chris Boucher a little bit more.

I'd just be curious to see how he performs, you know, charts, you know, him in Oregon. At the where, at the five or something? Just a little bit more at the four or the five. I would just be curious to see him getting minutes over Greg Monroe. With his length, his shot blocking ability and the spacing that he provides, I'd be curious to see how that works over the stretch without Valanchun. It's just a little trick. Either one of those guys is not going to be playing the playoffs.

Yeah, of course. I guess in the meantime, I'm just intrigued. I'd like to know how he's going to perform. Let's throw a quick outlet pass to the weekend. Danny, Raptors have a pretty brutal weekend, don't they? Yeah, so Saturday, I think they're playing the Bucks, and then the following night, they're back at home playing the Pacers. So this is two very familiar foes.

They've played both teams a few times this season. We've learned a little bit about them each step of the way. I think the last win against the Pacers was one controversial, but two, it was only decided by two points. Yeah, I mean, especially after this kind of embarrassing loss to the Spurs, kind of want to see them pick it up a bit. What's Lowry status for these games? I think he was, well, he was questionable for the Spurs game,

so I'm assuming he could be bumped up to probable for one of these games, hopefully. It's going to be tough for Toronto this weekend, and that brings us to the NBA Watch of the Night. On Friday night on ESPN, the Oklahoma City Thunder are going to take on the Portland Trailblazers is the battle of two Western Conference playoff teams. teams, Charks, what are you looking for in this game?

Well, I think with OKC, the story right now is Russell Westbrook. He's been more like, he's shooting some of the worst numbers of his career over last few weeks. Mark Hell Foltz-like. And you have a team like Portland, their whole strategy is to give up that mid-range shot. Russ loves to just take. So we'll see if he'll still willing to take shots as frequently. And if you can make them at any kind of reasonable rate. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on

NBA.com, Amazon, or your local cable. satellite provider. This season of the Western Conference, there's starting to be a little bit of separation after it was so tight early on between the one and the 14 seed. Right now, there's five games of separation between the one and the eight. That order right now, as of Friday morning, is Denver, Oklahoma City, Golden State, Houston, Portland, L.A. Clippers, San Antonio Spurs, L.A. Lakers. Personally, I'm not sure how much this is going to change.

I think this could very well be the eight teams that make the playoffs. Do either of you guys see any of these eight teams sliding out? Right now, Sacramento in the nine seed is two games back from the Lakers. Memphis, two and a half, Dallas two and a half back. I mean, I would love to see Sacramento in the playoffs again. But this is something that I wrote earlier in the week. But this time last year, the playoff picture was pretty much set. So you had both conferences?

In the West. In the West, okay. So in the West, you had on, I think, New Year's Day, 2018, you had seven of the eight eventual playoff teams in the playoff picture then. The only team that dropped down was the Nuggets who were one game away, the final game against the wolves away from the playoffs. That's interesting. And the Jazz, who went on a huge surge after Rudy Gober came back. So it isn't uncommon to see, you know, the playoff picture shape up so quickly, which is exactly why this year, with it being so crazy,

it's so interesting. I wonder about the Clippers. They've really been kind of falling off lately. And I think, too, the Lakers with LeBron, if LeBron's out, that's the thing obviously, too, is with injuries. It's still close enough

or one injury can kind of derail the whole season. Yeah, it's ultimately the variable injuries for any of those teams that are going to be on the bubble. I do think for the most part, though, I just don't view Sack, Memphis, Dallas, Minnesota on that same level. I think New Orleans, you need Anthony Davis

going another tier like he did the end last season, like James Hardin's doing right now, you're going to need that from Anthony Davis. With Utah, their defense has been tremendous since Thanksgiving, I believe it ranks number one in defensive rating. They've been great on that end. Again, still can't shoot. They still can't shoot.

They still can't score. Donovan Mitchell, as much as he was beloved last year, making his rookie of the year push, as much as, you know, it's hard still not to of him. He's still an inefficient player. And he needs to improve as a shooter. He needs to improve as a passer as an interior

finisher. And he was a guy all three of us really liked him in the draft. He's somebody who is going to be a good player for a long time. But right now for Utah, they need him to elevate his play. It's just not there right now for that. It feels like Utah and New Orleans have the highest upside of those teams out of the mix right now.

But KSC, you don't see Justin Holiday changing the balance of power in the West. If anyone's changing the balance of power for the Grizzlies. It's Jared Jackson, Jr. Absolutely. Justin Holliday, I think he should be like a next week, Charles Broccoli, who he play for thing. I mean, nobody watches the Bulls.

Yeah, so people wouldn't remember. I don't think Charles will get that one. A lot of people would not have to get that one. But no, Jaron Jackson is the balance of power. We talked about him last week, about how we'd love to see, just see him play more minutes anyway, regardless of the following. Just force-feeding him the ball. I think that's fair as well. And there's also trades.

I know the MAVs have been, had their name out there trying to make a move. I expect there'll be some movement in trades with some of these teams, too. What was the recent trade report regarding Dallas? For the MAVs was Auto Porter. People were talking about it. That's right. Oh, man, I'd be so excited for that.

That was Tim Cato from the Athletic, I believe, correct? Who reported the Auto Porter? Let's give Tim some love. I don't remember, but sure. Would it be for, like, West Matthews and stuff or what? Or to be barns straight up. Barnes, maybe. Oh, okay.

How do you like that trade, Danny? Sure, sure. Whatever mixed sharks happy. There we go. My editor, I love it. I think, you know, Porter, we talked about him a little bit earlier. He hasn't been quite as good last, this season, and obviously his numbers are down as well from the past.

Did you see that split, though, KOC, where, like, Porter without Wall has been, like, as good as ever? Yeah, exactly. I don't know if that means anything, but it's interesting gamble. 37% from three. He's playing in a slow offense. I would love to see Porter on a high tempo team like the Kings. I think he'd be intriguing.

He'd be great for them too, yeah. Playing off Luca Donchich on Dallas would be really interesting. A guy with his passing vision. Be intriguing. I think Otto Porter, despite his salary and what he's going to cost, he can end up looking better

on his new team compared to where he's at right now. Yeah, by the time this season's overall, I've written an article saying Otto Porter for like every team in the way. I think that's so on brand, dude. It's great. There's one other piece of news we have to hit before we're done.

Project, projected 2019 NBA draft lottery prospect. Bull, bowl is out for the season. Ah, sad, very sad, because of surgery to repair a non-displaced fracture of the navicular bone in his left foot. Bowl Bowl is a seven foot two center who played only nine games this season.

But, man, but, Bull, bowl. Okay, so nine games into the season. he's hitting 52% of his three-pointers on two attempts per game. If you were to look at the history of college basketball and the three-point line, the only centers who have shot better than that were two dudes who have only played one game in their career. Bowl Bowl is the greatest...

Well, he's only played nine, Dan. In those nine games, in those nine games, bowl bowl is the greatest shooting center in college basketball history. This dude is not getting past, you know, the top eight. He's getting driving the top eight. What's that foot injury? Is that a bad foot injury?

Yeah, it's the Embed injury. It's pretty bad. I mean, for a 7 foot three guy, that's kind of a big red flag. It's a bad injury, and he already was dealing with a knee injury earlier in the season as well. He's a guy where prior to all this, all the talk between NBA people are like, yeah, he's seven foot two. Yeah, he can shoot threes. Yeah, he can protect the room. Yeah.

Like if you're making, you know, if you're doing like your comp rush more charks, Chris Stavis Porz-zingis is probably one of the guys on it. However, with his body, it's really really weirdly built. It's hard to see him staying healthy. There's concern in the NBA prior to all this about his durability. And that was the primary reason why this guy isn't taken seriously as a top five guy. There was already scouts who viewed him as a deep end of the lottery player. And this isn't a draft.

It's really not that strong. I wonder, could he slide towards the back of the first round? or do you think that this is somebody with his upside, you're still going to feel comfortable taking a swing on him mid-lottery, late lottery, despite the injury? I think a team would take a swing with him. I don't think he drops past the 10th pick. I'm worried about his speed, though.

Even when he's the hell stuff. He doesn't move that well. Neither does Nicola Yokic, man. Yeah. So you'd feel comfortable around the 10th pick? I think so. Personally, if you're a GM. If, look, if the injury,

looks a little bit more severe than what I'm thinking it is. That could be an issue because this is this is an injury that has affected players of his size. You know, Joel Embed, Zedrunas Olgous Olgousis was a very popular or was a very famous case of this. And it derailed like his first three years of his career. He ended up having a great career. But, you know, these foot injuries with big men, it's, they're no joke. This is a super-sized big man. Yeah.

It's like there's the extra level of like seven foot two, seven-foot three. I mean, guys like that don't stay healthy generally, in general. You still view him as a lottery prospect as well, Charks? I got to watch, I'd have to go back and watch, you know. I thought I'd get to watch him more than nine games this year. I'll have to go back and watch something else really against. I haven't seen him that often. Ultimately, a lot of it's going to depend on the medical.

Like, when teams get him in, give him a physical, and find out what's really going on inside of his body, that's going to determine where he's going to end up going. And if a team is willing to take a risk on him, if he's red flagged for multiple potential issues, which would not be much of his surprise. prize considering his injury history and his body. It's a real bummer because

Oregon was going to be visiting USC very soon. We could have caught crunches of that game. Yeah, very might not go now. Yeah. I had tickets ready to go and I was just like I don't know. Hey, I can go still see Kevin Porter Jr. Man. I don't think we can do that either. Yeah, he might be shut down to me. Hopefully he comes back though. I mean, there's a

chance. We don't know for sure yet. Yeah, a lot of these guys are going to be getting shut down. This is my own story. It's like with these bowl games. But now it's the whole season. Like, ah, we're done enough. Kevin Porter's played what, seven, six, seven games? Because he's been hurt for a while too.

Yeah, he's been out since early November or late November. Seven games. Yeah. I saw him against Vanderbilt. Yeah. We were both of that game. Yeah. Very solidly built.

Had pretty much the full package in terms of creation abilities. You just kind of wanted to see more than seven games of it. coming off the bench for USC as well. It's like, yeah, hopefully by the end of this year, this guy's starting, getting, you know, 34 minutes per game. But he's played around 20-ish each game. Don't know if we're going to see Kevin Porter again. I hope so, though.

That would be a good reason to go to that Oregon-USC game. We're out of time today, but before we go, we have one final segment that's actually Danny's idea, but you didn't want to do it until we pressured him into doing it. Danny, what's the segment called and what's it about? So we have a corner three slack where we do a little bit. bit of planning and I came up with this really stupid idea about doing a segment. A one minute segment where I go ISO and do a segment called Hurtor He Wrote.

Get it? Murder, she wrote. About my favorite rookie of the season who isn't Luca Donchich or Jaron Jackson Jr. So this past week, Kevin Herder dunked on Jeff Green. It was a very cool thing. And that concludes the segment. I love it, Danny. we're going to do this as often as we can. Stay tuned, people. Stay tuned for this. I'm going to, as soon as we're done here. As soon as we're done here, I'm going to YouTube searching Hurt or Dunk on Jeff Green. It's all we have time for today, guys. That's fun. Have it going, Danny, John. Thank you. Thank you. As always. Thank you for indulging me. And thank you for listening to the quarter three. Please, please give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Tell your friends. Tell your family about the show. Make us all super, super happy. If you do that, special shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing the podcast. And in my good, and Elon for listening to show. We'll be back next Friday, as usual. Thank you for listening.

Happy New Year.