The Ringer NBA Show - Jaren Jackson Jr. Goes to Utah, Harden Wants Out, and Drug-Testing Stories | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

The Real Ones crew reacts to Jaren Jackson Jr. moving to the Jazz and signaling the end of an era for Memphis. Then, Raja joins to dive into the wildest breakout stories of the week—including a drug-testing saga that immediately shoots to the top of the rankings—plus big questions around James Harden, Giannis, and the inevitable end-game conversations surrounding LeBron. (0:00:00) Intro (1:14) Jaren Jackson Jr. Trade (23:38) FanDuel ad break (25:20) James Harden Trade Request (54:12) Giannis  (1:03:57) Mailbag *Programming note: This episode was recorded before the Los Angeles Clippers traded James Harden to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Darius Garland and a second -round pick.* Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producers: Victoria Valencia and Steve Ahlman Production Supervision: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Additional Production Support: John Richter and Chris Wohlers The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Howard Beck and Rajabelle and a few. We had a whole podcast ready for you. And then Jaron Jackson Jr. gets traded to the Utah Jazz for three first round picks. So me and Howard got on the line, did a quick topic for that. And then we talked about all things involved on the trade. What does this mean for Utah? This is an end of an era for Memphis. And then we get into the rest of the pod where we talk about the James Hardin trade request. This is a wild trade season so far. We get into the trade request. We get into a little Janus update. We get into a lot of stuff.

Great Tuesday episode and real onesmelbag at gmell.com. Real ones mailbag at gmell.com. Real ones melbaugat gmell.com. Tap in. Ah, ah, all of it. Steve, play the theme music. Bobbin, Realones, Logan Murdoch here. Howard Beck there.

It would not be trade season. If we didn't already have a show in the can, only for a huge trade to make us come back to the podcast, mics. So, Jared Jackson, Jr. has been traded to the Utah Jazz in exchange for Walter Clayton, Jr., Kyle Anderson, Taylor Hendricks, Georgian Yang, and three future first round picks. Now, we don't know the protections yet on the first rounders yet. I'm sure that'll come out maybe by the time this pod comes out. We don't know what years that those first round picks come in.

But on the surface, at least right now, and this is what we're working our way through, in an era where picks are probably as valuable as they have ever been, and for a team that has seemingly been tanking for the last four or five years, why would the Utah Jazz make this deal at this time for this player, Howard Beck? Oh, man. We had made a really good podcast before this broke 10 minutes later. at least I got to eat lunch first. This is fascinating from both standpoints, right?

Because the Grizzlies have now firmly, firmly signaled the end of an era, whatever the era was of John Morant and Jaron Jackson Jr. And clearly Jomarant is going to go at some point too, if not this week, then in the offseason. And this is the Jazz who did their own tear down by jettisoning Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, four years ago now, deciding it's time to hit the gas and be good again. The why now, why this, why this player is really interesting, Logan. Jake Fisher did provide some details on the picks.

So just to get this accounting done first. According to Jake Fisher, the Jazz are trading their most favorable 2027 first, which would be either their own or Cleveland's or Minnesota's, I'd say likely Utah's. That's one pick. They're also trading the Lakers' 27 first round pick and the Suns, 2031 first round pick. That Sun's pick in 2013, like, I had the beholder stuff here, but like, I've, I've tended to think that all of the Sun's future picks are pretty valuable. So 231 from the Sun's, I think that's probably the

best of these. So there's the three picks. A bunch of players flying back and forth in all this, Logan, but obviously Jaron Jackson Jr. is the only one that really, really matters. I would like it for the Jazz more if they didn't have Markinen and Walker Kessler because Lowry Marketing is not a small forward. And he's got to be a power forward. That's where Jaron Jackson, Jr. usually plays next to a bigger center next to him. So does this mean they're trading Walker Kessler? Does this mean they're trading Lowry Markinen?

Does this mean they're going to try to have Marketing and play the three when all are healthy? Obviously, in the near term, no big deal because Kessler is out for the season. but I'm not sure like look at we're doing this on the fly in the moment and there's a lot for the jazz to explain sort out maybe there are more deals between now and Thursday maybe they clean it up in the off season but I don't think that's the alignment you want is Kessler jaron Jackson Jr. and marketing together but we'll see jaren Jackson Jr. 26 years old perennial defensive perennial all defensive team guy, perennial defensive player of the year

candidate in various levels. And the modern, he's perfect modern big in that he can shoot the three and he can protect the rim, right? That's a really valuable thing to have in a big. So he's got his flaws, rebounding among them, staying healthy among them.

Fowling among them. Fowling among them. But a really nice piece. He's not. putting the jazz like over the top but the jazz are you know they're just still climbing out of the rebuild that they began four years ago yeah that they've been stubbornly not necessarily really trying to get out of it seems like this is just a perpetual rebuild and i think you know i'm just thinking through right now i mean jaron jaron jackson junior is at the stage of he is

who he is right now he does have all of his flaws he's not going to take you to the next level i just if you're going to build through the draft, which seems like they've been able to do fairly well, right, when they do try, right? With Isaiah Collier is a really good player, right? Ace Bailey has had his moments, you know, this season. Cody Williams, after a rookie season, that was pretty disappointing is kind of coming into his own, right?

Like this, like a redundant here, we always talk about pushing the button way too early or way too fast. this seems like a weird middle ground for Utah, right? Because it just, even if they were fully healthy right now with all the pieces in play, it seems like a fairly average team, right? Like maybe a playing team. I just don't see what this doesn't give you the leap that you would want if you are the Utah jazz at this point. And you gave away picks.

So it seems just a little weird at this point for them to give up on what they are trying to do where it seems like if they just keep their picks in line, they can build through the draft, which is probably the most incentivized way that you can do it in the modern NBA in the apron era. So like that, that's what's kind of confounding to me right now where this new era makes you have to pick aside, either you're going to draft, build your team through the draft

or you're and make ancillary trades around it, or you're going to go in on a player. This kind of has a middle ground to it out. Yeah, I would just say that, And I'm looking up as we speak, because again, we are doing this on the fly. As of Bobby Marks' last accounting of this several months ago, the Jazz had the third most first rounders in the NBA. Incoming picks, 11 first, 11 first, and then I think they had one outgoing first. Of course, the one this year potentially, the protected one to Oklahoma City.

So they had a surplus. They're good. They're fine. They can send out these three and still have eight incoming. I think they're fine in that regard. I, you know, and when it comes to like Jaron Jackson Jr., as a guy you're going, not all in on, like three firsts plus a bunch of, like, you know, random players, mostly random players.

Like, it's not like you've emptied the cupboard. Is he the guy putting you over the top? No. Is he a perennial MVP candidate who's going to put you in the playoffs by himself? No. But the jazz operating in a small market, you're either going to hope to get really lucky. Maybe Ace Bailey becomes your superstar of the future. they got very fortunate in the past when they, you know, traded for the, for Donovan Mitchell's draft rights and he became a perennial all-star.

And I think he was drafted at, what, 13, 15 somewhere in that range. You either got to get really lucky or you trade for a guy. And, you know, this is not a, like, for all their picks, they were never going to be a Janus destination, right? Yonis is probably not resigning there. So, like, who else are you going to go all in on? So by going that next tier or two down to guys who are simply. perennial all-stars as opposed to perennial all-MBA or perennial MVP candidates. You assemble enough of those guys, right?

We didn't know what marketing was going to become before they got him. And he's had some of the best years of his career there when he hasn't had fake injuries or actual injuries. And you combine Markanins scoring and playmaking with, at least for the moment, the defense and paint protection that you get from Jaron Jackson, Jr., and Walker Kante, George has had a really nice season and really coming on as a young guard, young playmaker. You can start to see the outline of a team that can do a lot at both ends and they still have plenty of picks to use. So I like, again, I don't, I'm not convinced Lowery marketing is a full-time three. And I think that that compromises you defensively, but maybe they feel like they can get away with it because they're going to have enough defense behind him.

or maybe you start those guys and then throughout the game, you're staggering so it's only any two of those three. And again, there's going to be more to come, Logan, right? Whether it's this week or in the off season, we can't judge too much what the Jazz's plans are in this exact moment because they're obviously not done. The Sun's won in 2031 could be a lottery pick. We'll see. the jazz pick in 2027,

if they get what they want out of this out of this trade, that one will not be in play or will not be very high. So it may not be a ton of draft capital to give up when all is said and done. And they didn't give up key players. And they've still got, like I say,

Keonti, George, Ace Bailey, other young guys who, you know, they're investing in. And sometimes the better move is to have some veterans around your youth to stabilize things a little. So if I'm going to, going to try to rationalize it or do a little bit of mind reading of Justin Zanick and Danny Aange and Austin Aange and any other Aanges involved. That's how I would try to analyze it.

All right. Let's go to the Memphis side of things. I mean, this is an end of an era of sorts, right? And it's basically a throw in the towel of sorts. If you're, if, if you're, if you're, there were some rumblings, you know, over the last couple of months. I know Jha got a lot of the headlines, you know, for, you know, his trade candidacy. But there were some underlying things about Jaron Jackson Jr. And maybe he might get let go if that's something that the Memphis Grizzlies were interested in because they want to just tear it down to the studs. And it's going to be funny because later in the episode, we're basically talking about

them as if they're going to build around Jared Jackson, Jr. And now that is no longer the case. But what are where, what does this mean for the Grizzlies now? right now jaron jackson junior is out of the building does that just basically mean that jaws is going to be out of the building at some point too because at the very least it seems like they're the grislies have said this group can do as done as much as we think they're capable of doing it's time to jump ship what does this mean for the members of grislies you know it was a fun era while it lasted at times and um you know they won one playoff series that was the year they end up

the beating, end up beating Minnesota in the first round, lose to the Warriors in six. In the second round, the Warriors going to win the championship in 2022. And that was in a lot of ways, their high point, right? They had back-to-back 50 win seasons with John Morant, Jaron, Jaron Jackson, Jr., Dylan, Brooks, Desmond Bain. Like, it was a good, fun, tough team for a while there. But it was clear it had hit a ceiling. And listen, I'm going to give a lot of credit to Zach Kleiman in that front office because

even a couple years ago after they finished whatever it was, second, third in the West. And it was like, oh, look, the Grizzlies, they're here, they're common, they're young, and they're still improving. Everybody else around the league when you talked was like, that's not a real big three. Like John Moran really good, Jaron Jackson, Jr., really good, Desmond Bayam really good, but that's not exactly like your traditional

kind of old school big three of like superstars. It seemed like there was going to be a hard ceiling on how far they could go. And there was. And to the Grizzlies credit, they recognized it. they do trade bane last year, which signaled something, right? Some sort of pivot. And it was a draft pick heavy trade. So, you know, you could read into that that they were looking for a rebuild eventually.

And we knew below the surface, like all the Jaws stuff was, you know, kind of burbling the whole way. And it's, and it seemed like it's inevitable. The irony of all this is that Jaws going to be the last one out the door, right? he's the one who seemed to be the biggest flashpoint because of his decline in play, because of his attitude, because of his off-court issues, because he was just pretty difficult and was clashing with coaches. And yet he's the one still there because he's the hardest to trade. Like the value for Bain was obviously pretty clear in the moment.

The value for Jaron Jackson, Jr., you know, tons of teams wanted Jaron Jackson, Jr. Nobody's sure if they want Jahn. And so that'll be the toughest move for. to make. It's the last move to make, but it's the inevitable move to make. Like, that's coming, whether it's in the next 48 hours or this offseason, that's coming. We talked about it later in the episodes, you guys will hear that conversation. But does this, if you're the Memphis Grizzlies, does this just give you just more incentive to just take any trade that job, any trade offer that you get on John and just say, hey, we're cutting bait with them. We got the picks that we need.

We're not trying, we don't need, we know what the writing is on the wall. We're not necessarily. going to get any picks for him. We maybe get a player swap for him. Does this, now that you've gotten Jaron Jackson Jr. out, do you just trade a job for whatever you can get at this point? You may not have a choice, Logan. Like, it's, it's,

the market is what it is. Like, at some point, you just have to take whatever the best thing on the table is. I don't know that there's anything on the table for John Morant right now. I mean, I haven't heard. I don't know. Maybe, um, and I'm, I'm purely speculating, but you know James Hardens is like maybe he's a clipper you know I guess he's a clipper I mean this this is sometimes how problems get solved in the NBA is just you exchange headaches and move on and hope you get better out of the guy that you got than the other team does um I'll be

very curious to see what John Moran eventually goes for and I wonder how he's feeling right about now that they've, you know, over the course of a couple of years, let Dylan Brooks walk shipped out Desmond Maine, Desmond Bain now shipped out, Jaron Jackson, Jr., you know, clock's ticking. It's, you know, it's a bummer for Grizzlies fans, right? This was at its best a really fun team. I was, I was hesitating to say likable. If you were a grizzlies fan, it was likable.

If you were the fan of teams they were playing, maybe not so likable because they were pretty brash and the Dylan Brooks, Desmond Bain of it all, was, you know, pretty tough. But hell, if you're a Grizzlies fan, this team was awesome at its best. And John Morant was just, you know, a nightly highlight show. And it didn't last very long. But again, I give, this is why I give the Grizzlies credit, climbing and the rest of that front office and ownership,

because it's hard sometimes to give up on the vision. And we got, you know, we're a small market. We got a bunch of really good players. Let's just ride this as long as we can. And it's hard to decide to. pivot, especially when it's a popular team with your fans and when John Morant himself is really popular with your fans, it's tough to decide to tear it down. But it's the right thing to do as a basketball matter. I don't think there's even any question about that. Yeah. It's,

you know, I remember being in Memphis, you know, during the height of Jha mania. And when you go when you went into that FedEx farm, it was the 21-22 season. I went there one game when they played the Nets, I believe, and it was rocking. It was a different level. And the way, you know, Grit and Grind has its own relationship with the city of Memphis, and they are stamped, they are a legend. But there was a different type of relationship with the city of Memphis and the job version of it. They loved him so much.

I think they were a lot of ways frustrated. with him, you know, especially towards the last few seasons, but it was an era nonetheless. And, but I think to your point, the model that the Grizzlies are using right now and quick pivots is the model of the rest of the NBA needs to adapt as we go forward. If you don't have it, you have to pivot. You're going to have to pivot because the costs within the apron era are just too much to bear if this just doesn't work. I think you're going to see a lot of these types of movements going forward, a lot of just curious trades.

This wasn't necessarily as curious as you might think it is. But if you're not winning, everybody's on the table unless it's a generational talent. And I think that's just what it's going to be going forward. What do you think, what does it say about the NBA or Howard? I always ask you, what does it say about the modern NBA and where we are right now? I think you just nailed it. Like, you cannot afford to overpay an okay team. You don't want to be in the apron of the second apron, paying luxury taxes,

dealing with penalties, all this other stuff, just to have a team that is lucky to flirt with mid-40 win total or even get to 50 now and then. Like, this team had already reached his peak. That was as good as it was going to get. And could you have held on a Jaron Jackson, Jr., trade everybody else, and try to kind of rebuild around him? And he's only 26. Sure, you've got enough of a timeline there.

but he's simply not good enough of a player to justify that i don't think no he's like he needs to be your your second or third best player probably your third best player and um hanging on to him it's the same critique i've had of the jazz this whole time hanging out to market in where it's like well he's not good enough to lead you either and by the time you're good again how old's he going to be uh i'm going to find out the answer to that question pretty soon here i guess because the jazz are are you know trying to turn the corner they they're They're trying to win now. That's the thing about the jazz, though.

Like, that's the thing about jazz right now. They have three guys that are just pretty good, you know, pretty good. Yeah. Right? And you traded, well, that's why the three picks are just like you got, you traded three picks for a guy that's just, okay, pretty good. I like him, right? And I know that they had, they had picks to spare, right? And you're just trying to wheel and deal and find something.

But Jared Jackson, Jr. is a guy that is proven at this point. to be a really good basketball player and everybody knows what he is. He's not going into a situation where maybe he's a third best player, but like it doesn't feel like an inspiring move, right? If you're trying to inspire a fan base, it doesn't feel like that for the, if I'm the jazz right now. No, no, Jaron Jackson Jr. is not putting a lot of butts in seats on his own. He's not selling tickets.

But jazz fans are used to a lot of success. And so first and foremost, they just want a good competitive, hard playing team that's going to put some wins up. And after, you know, three, four seasons of losing, I think they're just kind of ready to win again. And some of this, too, that's like these things sometimes come from ownership where it's like, all right, I told you guys it was okay to tear down and rebuild, but we need to see results soon.

I'm hearing it from season ticket holders. I'm hearing it from corporate sponsors, whoever. It's time. And sometimes that's what rules the day. And maybe that's at play here a little bit too. You're right. Like, Jaron Jackson, Jr., like, he's going to be a guy who, like, he raises the floor more than he raises the ceiling.

And Walker Kessler is another guy like that. And even Markin into an extent as a guy like that. So what you're hoping is that Kianti, George, and Ace Bailey are the guys who raise the ceiling, right? The floor is coming up. But even that's like a three or four year process, right? Like you get it. So this is my thing on that. Could be.

So you have, we just talked about with the apron area. Now you have an even more high price roster, right? You have two guys that are making, I don't know, they're making money, right? In a time where you would kind of want just to build through the draft and have a lot of cheap young talent. And when you trade a Jaron Jackson Jr. And you kind of accelerate that path where you're like, oh, we want to win. Jared Jackson is going in there like, I want to win in the next couple of years. I just came from Memphis.

We have had a lot of postseason success. But you're still on the same timeline as a Keate George, as an Isaiah Collier. And as a, you know, all of these pieces coming together. That's why I'm kind of like weird about the move. Like, you're still on a four-year path, whether you have Jaron Jackson Jr. or not. And then you're going to get somebody who is used to winning. And then all of a sudden, he's not winning anymore. And the goal, like, I don't know how long the jazz are going to be able to do this.

I mean, obviously, long as they have picks to spare. But they're like 15 and 35 right now. There's nothing inspiring about this deal or for next year or the year after that unless these players come into the fold. That's why I'm just like, eh, okay, you made a, you dealt for Jaron Jackson Jr. What's next? What are you guys going to do? You got to start somewhere. Yeah, I guess so.

You got to start somewhere. I guess the jazz are just an uninspiring team all the way around right now. And this is just kind of, I guess this deal just added to that in my eyes. this is why I say I want to see what happens next. Like, do they do anything else between now and Thursday? What do they do? This off-season. Like, this is obviously not the final move.

This is, we have been going down a certain road here. We're tired of that road. It kind of sucks. We're ready to start, you know, turning the corner here and doing something different. Let's try winning. Let's try adding good players instead of just subtracting. And it's step one.

there will be others to come, I'm sure. So can't judge it until we see the kind of the totality of whatever the vision is. But, you know, the people in that front office, Justin Zannick, Danny and Justin, like they've got a pretty decent track record in various places of building. I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here. I know Jaron Jackson Jr. is not blowing your doors off there, Logan. I mean, it is a Kevin Garnett in 08. It's not Kevin Garnett in 08, you know, or 07,

Excuse me. But, you know what I mean? Here's the thing. Danny Ains is a maid, man, and he's moving like one. And it remains to be seen if that is for better or for worse. So we'll see what happens, man. Let's take a quick break. And we'll get you to the rest of the show that we recorded before this trade went down. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandul.

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the cut. We're going to do this for a second time. The Clippers and James Hardin are at an very surprising and yet not surprising impasse. They're looking for trade partners right now a few days before the trade deadline. A lot of weird stuff having. I'm glad Howard's on the call right now so we can kind of parse through this stuff. So like last night, Chris Mannix reports that the Cavaliers and the Clippers are advanced discussions on a deal that would send James Harden to Cleveland exchange for Darius Garland. And this comes on the heels of Hardin not being in the lineup for the Clippers game on Monday.

And Ty Luce saying that he was away from the team on personal reasons. And in true James Hardin fashion, when he's doing something that's for personal reasons, he has cameras around him. So he was at the ASU game watching, I believe, ASU versus Arizona. And he was at his home in Phoenix, completely left the team. And so now he wants to be traded. And there's speculation around here about this that the heart is under contract for this year and next year. He has a 39 to make a 39.2 million this year making 42.3 million next year, but only 13 million of that is guaranteed.

And the rumors are like he wants to get paid and he wants to get a guarantee beyond this season. And he's, I guess there's been an impasse off of that. This is coming in the midst of the Clippers playing some of their best basketball of the season. James Harden has been a big part of that. Roger, this is, I think, the fourth trade request that James Harden has made since we've had this podcast. We've been through this a lot before. But I'll start with Howard first. What the hell was going on, Howard Beck?

And where do we go from here? Why do we keep – every time we think something boring is going to happen, either in free agency or the trade deadline, James Harden is like, uh-uh. This is about me. This is my time to shine. You know, the NBA's added a lot of, like, new honors and awards and, like, named old awards for, like, legends in recent years. They need to make, like, a James Hardin in-season trade award or in-season trade demand award. The James Harden Award, going each year to the player who just, like, gives us all something to talk about, buzz about the trade deadline by making a trade demand.

Like clockwork, this is basically every day. years. Like when this happened yesterday, when the news hit last night, it was like, surprising but not shocking. 2021, James Harden, I don't want to be in Houston anymore. Trade me to, trade me to Brooklyn, please. Trade him to Brooklyn. He played 80 games over parts of two seasons. I don't want to play in Brooklyn anymore. I don't play with Kyrie. Send me to Philly. Not send him to Philly. He played 79 games over two seasons. I'm not, I don't really want to be here anymore. Daryl lied to me about my

contract, allegedly. I want to play for L.A. I want to go to the Clippers. 2023 forces his way to the Clippers. To his credit, I guess, James Hardin's actually managed to play two and a half seasons with the Clippers before wanting out yet again. Most of these have been driven, well, some of these have been driven by money. Some have been driven by the state of the team. But regardless, like, James Harden, more than any other player of this era is a guy who is going to sour on his situation and demand a trade. It's funny because we talk about the player empowerment era. It's LeBron's the face of it.

James Harden should be the face of the player trade demand era because this is what he does more than anybody else. More than like LeBron's left in free agency when he's done it. He's had long stints. KD, not every trade has been at his at his will. Yeah, this is going to be James Harden's 6th team. He's still really valuable. He's still really productive.

We can talk about whether or not he makes sense next to Donovan Mitchell in Cleveland, if that one happens. But, man, I just, it's going to be hard. James Hardens an all-time great. Let's be clear. He's a Hall of Famer. Let's be clear. It's going to be hard to ever look at this guy's career and the grand scope of it

without thinking about he is the face of disgruntled stars in the 21st century. This is what he does. Roger, we've gone from, you know, him party into. during the pandemic with a little baby to him wanting out because of Kyrie's vaccination status. He went to China and said that a GM lied to him at an Indita's event. That's a lot of baggage for a team to take off, right? And the thing that's funny to me is you sign this contract. And it makes me wonder if you signed this contract knowing that the guarantees weren't,

they kind of come around. Like, was this pre-planned? Was this like, you knew that you knew what this, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it. But I'll go back to my original question, which is, how much of do you want to, of this, do you want to take on if you're another team? Because inevitably, it's going to blow up in your face with James Hart.

It is what it is. He is who he is at this point. He's not hiding that. Yeah, to answer that question, Logan, I guess it would depend on what your wrist tolerance is, right? Like, because you know, at some point, it's either coming to him asking for some sort of trade or he won't have enough tread left on the tire to be valuable enough to help you win games. And so what comes first?

You know, I don't really know. You know, it's become the norm. So it doesn't really hit me the same way it did when guys first started like frequently asking to be moved. So I'm not really upset about it. I'm used to it. It's the world that that they live. live in now. I just, I'm always fascinated by, by the front offices, and I was fascinated when I was in one, because, you know, talent is always, it's always tantalizing to them in a way that they will

overlook or compromise sometimes their values as it relates to trust or, or things like that, to take a swing at talent. Like, it's always going to win, provided it's playing at the level that they think is necessary for them to take a step up as a franchise. And so, you know, James Hardin is still playing great basketball. He's still doing some remarkable things. How long he can do that for, I don't know. But I don't know that I necessarily answered your question, but that was always fascinating to me sitting in those meetings,

hearing people talk about different players. And my pushback at times, not all the time, but certainly if I had knowledge of some issues would be, but, you know, hey guys, like before we do that, Let's just talk about this real quick because this could be something that bites us in the butt on the back end. And way more often than not, guys are going to take that swing and disregard what they know. What they know could be rough waters down the road, right? But it's smooth sailing right now.

And so we're just going to go. It's, I, hold on one second, Howard. I am very equally frustrated about that as you are, Rajah, because the, no matter how much, mentalizing talent is, like, you're still going to come up with the end result. And that, which is what they've always been throughout their career. You've, especially when you have as much evidence of he is who he is as James Hardin does, right? If he's not a malcontent, well, then he's not great for you in the playoffs when you need them the most. Those are two big strikes against you, right?

And as you get older and older and older, like, and your game erodes, and I'm not saying James Harden, game has eroded a lot because he's still a very, very effective player, still getting those crazy triple stumbles and stat lines. But as you get older, your role is expected to get lesser and lesser. And I just don't know how he's going to adjust to that. Howard, I just think the next few years and the last few years of his career is going to be fascinating because I just don't know how he is going to react to that because everything you know about James Harden is that, you know, he wants a certain level of spotlight on him. And he's not going to necessarily get that.

I think that this might be wherever it is the last go, right? Because I think that I don't know who wants to deal with that as right now. Because in L.A., it was, this is like the perfect ending for a career. You get to ride it out at home. And like, where else is he going to, where else is he going to get where he wants? And maybe that's a question of what does he actually want? All those things is, I think the last few years of his career are going to be fascinating for those reasons I just laid out. Yeah, we don't know for sure where he's going to land yet.

And just from what I heard, just kind of poking around this morning, there were people around the league yesterday, Monday, who thought that Hardin for Garland was already a done deal. And then some piece of that, I don't know if there was a hitch in there, about picks or whatever else there may be. but there were people around the league who thought this was going to be done yesterday or that it was already on course. Who knows? This thing might get done in the course of this podcast while we're recording in the middle of the day here on Tuesday.

If he lands with Cleveland specifically, there's like so many tentacles to this, Raj's old pal, Kobe Altman, pulling a lot of strings here and poking around and looking to do just about everything. Like they're, Kobe Altman in that front office are in a tough spot, right? Their core four, we know this is like the only second apron team in the league right now, I believe their core four has not been able to get as far as they want to go.

We've had some first round flameouts. Really potent on paper, not great in reality sometimes. And then Garland's been hurt a lot too. And he's got that nagging toe situation. So you plug in a hard in for Garland. You get a little bit more physicality in the back court. you know, James Hardin is much bigger player than Garland, that undersized backcourt. I felt like was always an Achilles heel there.

But hell, they had a 60-win season. They've had a lot of success. Hardin, I think, does push them up a notch, right? Logan brings up the right concern, which is that his postseason record, especially in critical games and post-seasons over the course of his career, is really poor. He disappears in big moments. If I'm going to talk myself into James Hardin at this stage of his career, it's, I've got Donovan Mitchell.

He's the guy who's going to bring it home. I'm not worried about James Harden going like one for seven in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. I've got Donovan Mitchell. I've got Evan Mobley. I've got other ways to go here. And it's the same thing I said when he went to the Clippers. Like I've got Coie Leonard went healthy.

Or when he was in Philly, I've got Joelle Embeddeed when healthy. I've got, if you've got another star who can carry a lot of that and handle the pressure, James Hardin doesn't have to be, like in Houston, everything Rosenfeld with him and if he couldn't come through, you're screwed. That's not going to be the situation if he's in Cleveland. So I'm not worried about that part of it necessarily. I think it's more about he's, I think, 36 and what's the window and how much money is he going to want tacked on? How effective

is he going to be as he moves into his late 30s? How well do he and Donovan Mitchell mesh? Because those are both pretty ball dominant guys. Donovan Mitchell does need somebody to take some of the ball handling pressure and scoring off of him. But, you know, James Hardin, depending on the team and the situation, sometimes a good fit and meshes, sometimes not. So you are rolling the dice. There is risk there, but a bunch of other intel out there that I should just hit real quick as part of the scenario here. As Sam Amyick, and I think Wynnehurst and others have mentioned, like, the Cavs need to figure out what to do. The Corps is not working. They need to start getting under the second apron again at some point here. There's a

Donovan Mitchell part of this where he's eligible for an extension this summer. They're not sure if he's going to sign it. He can. opt out as soon as summer of 2027. So if you're trying to convince him to stay, maybe you need to improve. One of the reports was if they flame out early in the playoffs again, that might have been bond temps, that if they flame out early in the playoffs again, that Donovan Mitchell is not going to want to resign. So there's a lot of different considerations here. Is James Harden the answer to all of those things? Logan clearly thinks not based on the variety of expressions he has been employing the last three minutes of me talking.

The thing that got me was the fact that we think James, we think that Donovan Mitchell was the one to bring this home right now, right? And he, well, we have Donovan Mitchell. Like, Donald Mitchell has questions in the postseason as well, right? Sure. I trusted more than I trust James Hardin. Absolutely. But like, what are we trusting here that we're going to flame out in the

semifinals and then, or we're going to flame out in the conference finals, right? Like, it's still not reaching your goal, right? And I just don't. And like to say, oh, we have, we have, we have Mitchell. We're good. We have Evan Mobley, who has kind of just been the guy that he's been since he's been in the league and hasn't really lived up to the expectations we've all bestowed on him, you know, based on his height, his length, what we feel like he can do with the basketball, right?

Like, oh, is this going to be David Robinson 2.0? It doesn't look like that's shaking out. This move seems for the cavaliers in my eyes seems like a move that is, you know, one of the last ditch moves of what this error is going to be, right? Like, they've kind of hit their ceiling of what they are and they've had a bit of a regression. Let's just make a quick move to just see what, like similar to what the Hawks did last year, right? Where, hey, we're going to get an extra trade.

We're going to, you know, see what the landscape is. We're going to do one more shot at this and we'll see what happens. But we'll see because I feel like if you trade for James Hardin, he's going to want some sort of guarantee and extension. and then you have another year of James Harden. So, like, I just, I don't, I don't know what happens. I would, I would just say, I agree with Howard and that you get, I think you get fractionally better with James Harden.

There is some, there's some risk there with that. You know, I was told from that situation in Brooklyn, one thing was said to the organization about the role that was willing to be accepted in the way said player would play with, with the roster construction, and that did not last very long. He became very disgruntled with that very quickly. But I do think it makes them better. And what I would say to Kobe and, you know, the Cavs is that if you're looking at the East, you know, we've said this all year.

If you're looking at the East, you might feel that rolling the dice on getting a little bit better this year puts you right in the mix for potentially, you know, being in the finals, you know, and it might, when you're at a point where you know that roster that you have right now has got real limitations. I mean, you might be willing to risk that. Yeah, I mean, we kept saying, we all set all season that the East is wide open and it's even more so now, right?

Like, Rogers Hornets out here killing it, baby. Hotest team in the league. And then the Sixers. And then the Sixers with Paul George's suspension. You picked up, you picked up the lid lately and looked in. Hey, I watched the, hey, I watched them play against the, the San Antonio Spurs over the weekend. And, yo, man, they are so fun to watch because they throw up a lot of bullshit and it goes in.

There was a play, I believe, that happened and correct me if I'm wrong, guys. And I'm sure there will be videos in the chat saying that I'm wrong. But there was like a play where Lonzo was going or Lamello was going out of bounds through an alley-oop and just like, it was like a beautiful dunk. And that was like the first thing that I saw when I turned it on was like just some random alley-oop dunk. And I thought it was like NBA Street. was like, oh, this is fun. And then they were kicking the shit out of the spurs.

League past. This is fun. This is fun. This is fun. They're in play. Sorry for the quick chance. They're in play. You know, like the Sixers are in flux now with Paul George's suspension, which is wild.

There's a lot of things going on right now. Can I sidebar again? Like, I'm sorry. Let's do it, man. You know how we do. I might have a sidebar off your sidebar. Go. All right. What is the NBA drug policy now? Like, what are they actually test for now?

Can you go? Hold on. I'm a push back to you. I'm going to push back to you. Because Shaq said there was a pamphlet. Can you give us more enlightenment on like the pamphlet that he said that they give you a pamphlet of the drugs that you shouldn't take and then on how to get the drugs out of your system? I don't know this NBA PA thing or an NBA thing. But that's what he said on the SVN. I wasn't taking any. So if they gave me a pamphlet, I was just discard. So like I don't know that to be true or not. They certainly come around and give you everything that is being tested for. Like you, that's, that's not something that should, should surprise you when your panel comes up and they say you've tested positive for X, Y, and Z. You, you should know what they're testing for, which is my question.

Because I don't, I don't think they're testing for like recreational marijuana anymore. Like, they're not testing for those kind of things. So like, which, which you can say on the weed. Sorry. Yeah. My first, they were testing us for marijuana when we played. My first team I ever played on, I was in a stall. And, you know, I was trying to do my drug test.

This was before they made you stand right in front of the person taking the drug test. You could go into the stall or the urinal, if you will. I got a knock on the on the on the wall and I was like who the who is who is in a stall next to me and a vet of mine I'll say no names was like a young fellow and kind of slid the vial underneath the uh underneath the partition the partitioned to me that was my first experience with with pro drug test um yeah can i tell you my last can i tell you my last one oh I just tell you my last one because I'm all the way off the rails um let's go I was staying at home the year by last year in the NBA.

I had agreed to disagree with Utah. So I stayed home. They were still coming to drug test me at my house. So my sons and my wife were not home at the time. And this gentleman came to the house to drug test me, gave me the vial. And I went to go into like, I'm in our bathroom, right? Which has its own stall to, you know, his and her stall. So I go to go into my stall to use the restroom.

And buddy was like, no, you're not. You can't go in there. I'm like, yo, my man, I'll just keep the door open. Like, you could stand right behind me. He was like, nope, right in the middle of the room. Like, they were trying to get me. I'm pretty sure. Right in the middle of the room, I'm going to be facing you. So I'm standing there doing my business with this guy's back to my hallway, right? So I'm facing the hallway, looking down to my bedroom. His back is to me and my pants are down. Lo and behold, my boys come running around the corner. Oh my God. I was, I didn't know what to do, man. This man is standing there. watching me pee in a vile and my two young sons, they were like six and eight years old come streaming around the corner. Wild. NBA drug test, it was wild. Wild. But I digress.

Steve, clip it. It's crazy story, dog. I understand like the need to like kind of verify and everything, but like there's got to be a line there somewhere. It ain't that fucking important. Good Lord. What's your age? We used to get on buses. We used to get on buses.

Like there was a time in Milwaukee where Like, I remember this. Like, Eddie House myself. Like, I think it was Eddie House. It was with the Sons where we all had a real similar experience in that bathroom. And we were like, yo, was that shit weird, bro? Like, did that, was that like a weird encounter in there? And universally, the whole bus was like, yeah, I won't talk about that, bro.

By the way, speaking of the beginnings of your career, there was a Sixers reunion. Oh, we're off the rails now. That was during mailbag time. But we're off the rails down. Okay, why weren't you there? Yeah. Roger, why did you blow it? off the reunion, man. I saw all your

former teammates there, front office people, Billy King, all these guys. Yeah. Iverson hit your phone. Wasn't enough. Listen, man, I wanted to go, but my son, Ty, had his last regular season game on Friday. So I was already out for the Friday night dinner and stuff.

And then Saturday, that would have been cool, but my daughter had a soccer game. We had a lot of stuff going on at the crib. And, like, I know a lot of people don't feel me on this. Man, I would I've loved to have seen all those cats, but like they're not, I don't really stay in touch with a ton of those dudes. Like, you know what I mean? So if you make me pick between doing some shit with my family and seeing them play and stuff, like, no disrespect, but I'm probably going to stay home and watch the games.

All right. Respect. Fair. Fair. Roger's a good family. That's simple as that. Okay. I was scanning that photo on Twitter.

Like, as long as I could. Like, where is Roger? Like blocked by somebody? It looked like a good time, man. It was, it did. Howard, but what was your sidebar, Howard? Sorry to the drug time. No, no, that was it. That was it. You said, you brought up Philly and I thought there was my opportunity. Oh, okay. Okay. Howard, we also had a mailbag at the end that you. That could have been like a mailbag. But anyway, Howard, nobody asked that question. We were going to add it. It's our show. Anyway, Howard, back to you. Get us back on track. Like, we can do what we want? It's our show. It's real questions to my, with Roger Loving and Beck. What did he get, what did he pop positive for was my question. I'm sorry to go all the way off the rails. We don't know. We didn't know. Unclear. Howard, back to James Harden and the impasse. Jesus, that was great. That was like old school real ones there.

Yeah, my bad. Woo. Okay. I'll pose this question to Howard and I really want to hear Roger's answer on this. So is there a world where like James doesn't get dealt at the deadline and it's pure hell for the rest of the season and the clippers are just impure clipperdom going into the postseason? if we know anything about James Hardin, he could make this very awkward. He's really good at that. Yes. He gets what he wants for a reason because he makes shit super, super awkward. He don't give a fuck. It brings up why, like, the timing is what it is anyway.

Like, this team was in the tank in November, early December, and, like, they've been on a tear. Like, they're 17 and 5 since December 18th with the second best offense in the NBA and the fourth best net rating. Like, they're finally good. they're finally like digging out of it. Kauai's back. He's kicking butt. Snubbed from the All-Star team, but still, Kauai's been great.

Hardin's been great. And now, now of a sudden, so some of this is definitely contract related as we mentioned. Some of this is definitely, from what I understand, you know, the clippers have made it clear. They want cap room in 2027. So everything's planned toward that. So everybody is built to expire on that contract except for Zubach.

So if you want an extension and a big one like Hardin does, that, you know, you know it's not in the cards. But then again, that's been known for a while. Like, he could have asked out last summer. I don't know why he waited until now. So I want to say this, and I want to put a massive, massive caveat on this. Theory, not report aggregators. Theory.

Theory that is out there. All the aggregators put theory before whatever Howard said. This is not my theory. This is a theory that has been. passed along to me. Okay. We're still waiting on the NBA to make a ruling on this aspiration cap circumvention scandal.

And that's coming. I don't know when. I don't suppose it will come while we're all in L.A. at the Clippers Intuit Dome for All-Star weekend, but possibly sometime after that. Theory. Again, theory that if they're going to get hammered at the front office level, maybe at the ownership level, perhaps even at the Kauai level, that may put a severe crimp in the clippers hopes and aspirations, some might say. If that's the case, and you're James Hardin,

maybe you just want to pull the ripcourt and get out ahead of things before it goes to shit. Again, I'm not reporting anything. I'm not saying this is fact. I'm saying this is a, I think, very plausible, believable theory that had been passed along to me. So if that's the case, this might be one of the more justifiable of James Hardin's trade demands. I'll tell you what, even if it isn't, he might make it as such just to, you know, it might just be a crusader just to get out of Dodge. Because my thing is this, though, and I do think there's some credence to that theory. The other thing is like, that's not going to preclude the clippers from going to the playoffs this year if he's on the team and fully healthy, right? Like, they're not going to just, if a ruling comes down, they're not just going to say, you guys are banned.

from the playoffs the clippers are banned no but if they if they suspend kawai though for any length of time yeah that's fair that's fair yeah that's fair the other thing that's funny and I want to get to Roz's opinion on just the locker room dynamics before I get to that one thing is funny about going into this clippers all-star game one there's no clipper

all-stars at this present moment and two like you have the aspiration stuff and then three James Hardin is asking for a trade Like, just is there, is there any time to, like, just give this to the Lakers for this, for this All-Star weekend just to, like, just take the stench off of it? Because that's just going to be hanging all over this. This is just, it's, it's the absolute worst case scenario for Steve Palmer going into this.

I mean, you can make a case that it's the perfect Clippers all-star weekend. It's on brand, right? We do it's on brand. Okay. So, Roger, if, if, uh, James Hartman. and does come back. If you're in that locker room back, how do you deal with, with that? What is the locker room dynamic going to be?

Because I know you always say, like, oh, that's their business, whatever. We play basketball, you know, we're all about routine. But like, damn, dogs, like, we were rolling. Yeah. Yeah, this one might be a little diceier. I mean, you're, have I ever said that about someone trying to force their way out of a situation than like we weren't? I mean, that's, I usually, I usually say we're not affected by it.

when we're, you know, we're talking about, you know, other maybe disciplinary things and stuff like that. But, but as far as a guy saying, like, yo, I don't, I don't want to be here anymore. I'd like to be more. Or if they're negotiating contractually, right? But like, once a guy says, I'm ready to leave, there are going to be some feelings in that locker room. Who, how deep, how long it takes someone to get over those feelings. You know, I don't know. Typically, I would say, when you get out there on the court, you're hoping, right?

So, like, feelings aren't involved when we're hooping. We're just conducting business. But in that locker room, yeah, it could get a little, you know, it could get a little dicey. I mean, people are looking at you sideways if you're trying to force your way out of somewhere and that doesn't work. Yeah. We'll see what happens. It's fascinating. Any last thoughts, Howard, Roger?

What do we think? Can't wait. I can't wait to see what happens after we log off of this podcast today. I will say, like, tomorrow? What's that? Deadline's Thursday. Deadline? Sorry, Howard.

Thursday. Thursday. Thursday. So we got two days. I mean, there's, you know, the Janus thing has been kind of looming over everything and I think holding a lot of things up around the league. But like as you start to see this flurry of rumors and speculation last day or so, like you can see, like we're getting close and everybody's just going to have to start pushing the button because there are teams that need to make moves. I think we will get a reasonable amount of activity between now and Thursday afternoon. All right, man.

Let's take a quick break. And then we're going to talk about the teams you want to see, make a move or a player that we just want to. just see get out of their situation. Next. And we are back, ladies and gentlemen, maybe this segment will, you know, stay on the rails as opposed to last second. But maybe not. This is the real ones. First, let's say, let's just go with Janus. Let's talk about Janus. I know you guys can't wait to do that. I think there's been a cool, I think there's been a cooling on the notion that he is going to get traded by the deadline, I think a lot of smoke that was there was pretty much the Warriors flooding the zone

and telling everyone who would listen that they would give a, would give every asset that they have in order to get Janus, which is something that they've basically said behind the scenes for years in some capacity, right? And the bucks have no incentive to just give Janus away right now to Golden State unless like Janice said, I'm only signing an extension with them. And he hasn't indicated that he would do that. We haven't gotten to the draft. We're not even close to that when teams will actually have a better idea of what they can give. And the bucks will actually have a better idea of the packages that they can either trade for or negotiate.

with. That's my read on the situation. Howard, what is your read on the Yana situation as it stands right now so we can move on to other things? As you guys know, I've never expected anything was going to happen by the deadline for a bazillion reasons. I still don't think that's going to happen by the deadline, but, you know, we've been shocked before like the Luca trade. So without getting in the weeds about it, I think the bucks have a bigger field to play of soon. in the off season and potentially better offers. And yeah, the kind of the sense around the league in the last, you know, day or two, the last few days is they're just not getting blown away in the way that

they want to be as they should that, you know, Yon is for all of, you know, the bangs and bruises and everything else is still, you know, a former MVP and finals MVP and a champion who is still in his prime. They should get the biggest haul they can possibly get. And if they're not getting it now, they should wait until the offseason. I think that's what's going to happen. You think they shut them down, the rest of the season?

I think they have just like, that's all the incentive that they probably should shut them down. Dr. Yannis said he was going to be out for six weeks. I don't think the bucks have given any kind of health update, which like, I don't know how many MBA rules they're violating by not doing that. But at some point, look, he's going to be eligible to come back

and they're not going to want him to come back because of the draft pick and all that. But, yeah, that's a, that's a tension point for down the road. Yeah. Roger anything. I think we've already said everything we'd say about a Yadahis trade. You had anything?

No, I want him to be traded. No, I want him to be traded. Like, I'd like to see him on somebody's roster this year that could put him in a position to fight for something. But like, I understand if that doesn't happen, right? Like you've got a job to do. Howard, who do you have on your list of teams

and players that we need to talk about? I'm just going to dispense with one right off the top, though. Chris Paul's probably not getting traded the next couple of days, but like we've all forgotten that Chris Paul was actually in the league this year because it's been so long, like free Chris Paul. If they don't trade him by Thursday, I assume that he'll just get waved or bought out or something and he'll maybe he'll find a home somewhere. I don't know. The pistons of the team that I feel like just really should make a move, needs to make a move, and maybe is not inclined to make a move because in a year where we keep saying

the East is wide open, they've got a pretty healthy lead at the top of the conference standings. and they may rightfully feel like, yeah, we're young. Yeah, we only have one playoff series under our belt from last year, but we'll bet on who we've got right now. Let's give Cade and Duren and the rest of our guys a chance to see what they can do as the favorites this time as opposed to the dark horse that came in. But man, if they just had one more ball handling playmaker score type, right? I think they were hoping Jaden Ivy would be that,

but he hasn't really gotten all the way back. I think since the injury last year. If they just have one more shooter, you know, hello Michael Porter Jr., you know. Like they've got picks to trade. They've got, you know, contracts that they can move. Like they have the ability, the Pistons, to keep their core guys and make a move that upgrades them,

either whether it's shooting, whether it's playmaking, like just one more good piece. Like, could they grab? Like, Drew Holiday would be great, but I don't know that the Blazers want to give him up and his contract's huge and it's hard to accommodate. but like an Io dosun mu or somebody, like can you just get another,

somebody else a little pop? So the Pistons would be top of my list of teams that I'd like to see make a move by Thursday. Yeah, I wouldn't mind them fortifying. I was interested to hear where you were going with that, Howard, because just because they are sitting where they are in the Eastern Conference, the way they're playing, I was interested to hear where you were going.

But I would agree. Like if you can not tinker too much with what you have going on there, but add a piece that brings a little pop to you to you, you in terms of playmaking and stuff like that. I kind of like that a little bit. I went, you know, you took the name. You went with the team, but you took the name that I was going to use.

I'd like to see Michael Porter Jr. Like, he's already proven that he can play at a championship level and provide a service and do it at a high level. You know, weirdly, he might be in like the reverse world that I talk about. I usually talk about, like, young players coming in, not being ready to win, like, wanting to score all their points and prove to the world who they are. And then as they get older, they want to win. Well, he won relatively early.

He might be intoxicated with like just getting to score the hell out of the ball now. I haven't heard from him in that regard. I wouldn't mind seeing him like go somewhere where he could be back in the playoffs and providing that service for somebody who's got a chance to do something. What do we think about Memphis? They're in a place where, you know, I feel like they want to get off of a John Morant and feels like they just kind of want a fresh start right here. Howard, like you are the John Moran guy.

Where do you see that going? Speaking of aggregators. Where do you see that going? No, listen, I mean, that divorce is inevitable. But it's hard for it to happen right now because his market is in the tank. I don't know it's going to come back anytime soon. But, you know, at least the deeper you get into a guy's contract, the less money is left. And maybe there's more season for him to kind of rehab himself a little bit in the eyes of other people around the league.

I just think that the market for Jha is so soft that the grizzlies trading him now means basically giving him away the way that the Hawks did with Trey Young. And you're trying to avoid that if you can. Even if you think it's over and you need to move on and you need to restart doing it now for as low of a return as you'd probably get, that's hard. That's hard for a franchise to stomach. And you revisit in the offseason. No guarantee you're going to get more. But there's There's no urgency necessarily to getting it done right now. This season is what it is. So I'm not expecting a job deal. Yeah. I think what would frustrate me if I'm Memphis based on what you said is if we're trying to get out of the job business and then keeping him around as we're trying to build something new would just be kind of counterproductive, right?

As soon as like, like even if you do, you got all them picks from, you know, Orlando in the Bain trade, right? You can still build a team. Even if you did, it might be embarrassing to get nothing for job, but like there's no market. I would just, if I want to start a new, I would just get rid of them for whatever the price is. Like, we could still build a new, you have a good front office there and you can build something special. I just feel like with job and the contract that he has in the years that he still has left on it, like, if he's going to be there, he's not. it's not going to be helpful for your overall goal than this.

I see that, but you only got to get through another couple of months and then you miss the playoffs and the season's over. So you could address. I just mean having him in your building overall, right? Like you have to always worry about him. You know what I mean? We'll see.

Oh, man. I feel bad. Last one, and then we'll get some mailbag. Jonathan could be a good man. I don't know. I don't know. If he doesn't get traded by the deadline, I feel like we're all just going to be suffering. This is this going to be.

This is one of the most brutal sagas that has happened. There's been smoke out there that like he, the only team that is, that I feel like has consistently wanted him is the Sacramento Kings. And they just traded Keon Ellis to Cleveland. And so, and that's who the warriors wanted out of the deal. It's just been an ultimate failure. I don't it just that's all I had. I don't want to ever have to talk about Jonathan Cominga and his and the Camiga trades ever again.

I think against Jonathan Cominga. Just like it's the it is the most proverbial ink that's ever been spilled on a fringe rotation guy and a potential trades. Like I just I hope he has a great career somewhere else. Like it's been over with him and the Warriors for a long time. But just like, yeah, but spare us. all. Spare the NBA community anymore having to speculate on where Jonathan Kaming is going to go. Just get it done. Malpractice from everyone involved. Okay, let's get to,

let's get to mailbag. We have, this is from Rory Locke. No cliff today. So I'm going to handle the mailbag. I think we answered this question on the pod, me and Rajah, but I forgot the answer. So we can just freestyle it here. Hey, guys, appreciate what you do. I'd love to hear you guys discuss a Janus to the Pacers deal. The Pacers can give their draft pick this year and in future years and then pair Halliburton with Janus for the next handful of years. The Pacers also have a young core of players to send to the bucks. What do we think?

Well, Howard, I want to let you go. But we did it in a fantasy world, right? Because we did it where you were just, like, what did we give up? We gave up Siakum and, was it Seacum and, like a Nimhart. No, it wasn't Nimhart. Was it? Andrew, I think it was, I don't think so. Might have been, might have been.

But like, go ahead, Howard, do your thing. Like, we did do that. Yeah. Um, I love the idea of Janus with Halliburton, for sure. So, like, to the listener's point, to Rory's point, um, love the concept. But yeah, like, if you're going to start playing with the trade machine, you're either aggregating like half the Pacer's roster to make the deal or it's got to be Siakum. And it's going to be Seacum and a bunch of picks.

and that's fine, but like, do the Bucks want Seacum and probably every pick? Like, Seacom's an All-Star and a worthy All-Star, and I like the value there on some level, but Seacom's 31. He's not the guy that the Bucks are rebuilding around in a post-Yannis universe. Could you flip him then for more stuff? Sure. So, like, it might work on the Bucs end. It definitely works on the Pacers end, I think.

ideally, you know, you wanted a third guy to maybe put with Halliburton and Seacum or maybe you're just trying to upgrade a lot of the supporting cast and instead you're going, you know, even more top heavy with a Janus Halliburton pairing. So it, there's some caveats there, but I like it in concept. Yeah, no, I've already told you. I mean, I've already, if you're waiting for me to weigh in, like I, I, if you're giving me Janice and Halley as a pairing, and I have a decent supporting cast around that. Like, I'm in.

I think they naturally are a really nice fit together. And in the world where we discussed it, Logan, I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank, but we talked about some of the pieces that would be able to be retained in the deal that you had proposed. And I kind of liked it. So, you know, on the flip side of it, what Howard's talking about in terms of Milwaukee and whether or not that fits the bill in terms of what they're looking for, like, you know, I didn't really, I rarely attack trade from that angle. I come purely from like,

hey, if you put in what that player doesn't work well, can I see the roadmap? The answer to that is yes. A lot of people more smarter than us can work out the semantics of the numbers and stuff. For sure.

Speaking of people, smarter than us, this is a pure Howard question. This next question, and I'm doing it. We can just sit this one out. We're just getting it. I'll just get up on the phone.

Yeah, hop on the phone. Hey, Rulins. I want to ask about the state of the NBA and the CBA. Do you think the aprons are working? With the trade deadline happening this week, and they're not being any excitement really like in years past, which has been one of the main things of the NBA. Kevin Love had a rant about it a couple of weeks ago, but I wanted to get your take on how that we're basically halfway through it. Happy to hear this on the show.

Connor Bingham. Shout out Connor. Go ahead, Howard. Thank you, Connor. Logan, thank you for designating me as the resident CBA nerd of the show. Nerd alert. Expert. expert. Great, great honor. Put on my Bobby Mark's hat. The second apron, the aprons, all the

aprons, all the kitchen utensils or kutrimand, I don't know, clothing. Pain of the butt. If anybody tells you that this not affecting things, I don't think they're being entirely truthful. But I do think this. One, I do think we're going to see a bunch of stuff happening. And I think the lack of activity is more about the Janus trade, hanging over everything and freezing a lot teams that are trying to be in on that first than it is about the aprons. The other thing about the aprons is, and I've had this conversation with a lot of people around the league, actual cap nerds, not me playing one on TV, actual cap nerds around the league and executives around the league.

I have floated this theory and they have said yes, they agree. We're still in the early couple years of this CBA, and so everybody's still trying to recalibrate. And as contracts start coming off the books, like think of whatever you think the worst contracts are. Maybe I hate to keep picking on him, but like Zach Levine or Michael Porter Jr.'s or other contracts that are now considered overpriced, especially in this really tight landscape, as those come off the books, the system is going to have more flexibility in it. Teams are going to have more cap room again, and you're going to recalibrate. And in theory,

this is where the team discipline comes in. If teams start to exercise a little more discipline and stop overpaying your second tier star like a first tier star or your third best. player like a second best player and you start to ratchet down those contracts stop just giving out maxes to everybody who asked for one then that will give more flexibility back into the system as a whole and team by team but right now you've still got a lot of contracts from pre-cba pre-2020 cb a that are kind of clogging up the work so there has to be kind of a recalibration and books getting cleaned and not not books getting cleaned books getting cleared out um and then i think things will turn a little bit to normal C, whatever normal is.

But we go through this every so often with new CBOs. You know what I'm hearing right now? Players got least. Yeah. They got bleased. I mean, the max guys are still going to be straight. Yeah. Good for them.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, the question, but the question is like, would you still pay, you know, Carlin 3-10 million and it is next deal, right? Sure, but like, you want the players to get their bread, and then all of a sudden now they're having these, like, I personally want everybody to make as much money as possible. So I want the Carl Towns of the world to get their money.

And now it's like, you know, it's just the last CBA. This is just what the system is. I'm not making a value judgment. This is just what the system is. And it's a system that the Players Association signed on to. And they fleece themselves. I think they're doing okay. They're doing better than us.

Maybe not Roger. But they're doing better to me, Howard. Last one. Hey, this is a bit of a long one. And I hope you guys don't get offended by one of the things that they said. And you'll see when they say it. Hey, Rewan's team. Firstly, I love all of you guys.

I tune into all of your content from here and down under Australia, where we're blissfully sheltered from a lot of the turmoil in the U.S. and elsewhere around the globe. I'm a longtime Spurs fan. So I had some lingering animosity towards Roger from back in the day because of the spurs versus sons playoff battles. But, Raja, little did I know how real you are, Logan and Beck. You got all the angles of young and parentheses Logan. And my age, parentheses Beck, covered. So I know.

So I feel like you have the various generational bases checked off too. And Cliff is the best, always wearing his Philly heart on his sleeve behind the scenes. Okay, that's a long preamble to my question. With LeBron's time, with the Lakers seemingly up in speculation about where he should land out in his final seasons abound, I wondered what you think about him going to Golden State next season. The way I see it, adding LeBron, if he was willing to potentially sign a cheaper contract, would give the Warriors a pretty decent shot to finish his career. I also think they'd give him a proper send-off and would give Steph a shot at contending one last time.

as well. Steph, LeBron, Jimmy Butler, and Draymond and Horford will be one of the savviest oldest teams of all time. I hope they play half court. No, those are my words, not them. It'd be entertaining as any gathering all the old blokes could be. You know, like one big retirement party. I just think it gives everyone something of what they're after. And it'd be funny to see LeBron sticking into KD one last time by going to the Warriors. I always felt like they were real rivals of this fading generation. Thanks for everything you do. Lots of love and respect from the land of Oz.

Cheers, Paul. P.S. I'm truly in love with Wembe. He's the ultimate torchbearer for the legacy of pop, Timmy, and Manu. Go Spurs, go. It's great.

No doubt. I didn't know I had beef with Spurs fans, man. You do have Beeffoot Spurs fans, bro. Why? I never had beef with Spurs fans. Because you were a son. Because you were a son. It's because you were a son.

Yeah, but those things. I mean, those series were like tough physical series, but I always felt there was a level of like professionalism. Which I got into a fight. To go to. No, Robert, Robert, or like hip check Steve. Steve sold the hip check. Like it was a kerfuffle. It wasn't a fight.

Probably not a fight. Like the league came in and I like, I digress. I think I. I can do that. That wasn't a fight. You know you're not going to get fined anymore if you just say something bad about this. Yeah. It was complete and utter bullshit.

There you go. blown way out of fucking proportion and possibly cost us a chance. Who knows? But we felt really confident about maybe winning a championship. We fucking lose the next game at home. Almost went like don't.

I'm not doing this. You almost got me. I'm not going to do it. I'm not doing it. All right. What do you think about LeBron going to the Warriors? He was just getting more. Yeah.

Oh. Yeah, I don't know if LeBron would. I don't know. I look, on paper, I don't know who the hell they're going to guard. Like, I don't know how you're going to, like, at that age with that. that many people pushing, pushing.

They're damn sure not going to guard against sciatica. Yeah, I don't know. But, but I think that, like, you know, LeBron is, LeBron as, LeBron fits into a lot of different systems when he wants to fit into them. So if you said to me, hey, we have a, like, he actually does Draymond's job really, really well on the offensive end of the court if he wanted to do it. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I don't know that he would solely want to do that,

but he could fit into something like that where the universe is going to revolve around Steph and we're just going to move, move, move. Now, he's never played like that. So, so it would, it would, you know, it would take a little time. But he could do that. I just, what I'd like to see them be viable with Steph LeBron and Jimmy Butler and have a chance to win the championship, that would be super dope. I don't think that that happens or that they would, though,

have a chance to win a championship with that unit. 47 win tops. but you're a fun 47 wins. I mean, I mean, I don't know. But yeah, I don't, I don't. But I'd love it if they could figure out a way to infuse some youth with that and bring one of them off the bench and they'd have a chance to win a championship. That'd be super.

I'd be tuned in, locked in all year. You mean he'll bring Brony with him? Oh, right. Sorry. Hey, I don't know if you heard this Howard. All of you heard this Howard. Bronny's killing it when he's in a G league. K-League.

Killing it, hater. Sure he is. I want to answer the LeBron thing. But first real quick. because the listener from Australia alluded to being thankfully far from a lot of what's going on in our country right now. I just want to say real quick, we got a lot of really amazing feedback in the wake of our show last week talking about Minneapolis and everything going on there. So I just want to thank all of our listeners who kind of rode with us through that because that was a difficult discussion and obviously not a purely sports discussion. And you never know how people are going to receive it.

And I was I was really heartened by how well received that was based on all the feedback. I got directly through Blue Sky and other channels. So thank you to all our listeners for that. LeBron and Steph together, like, listen, you guys, I think know this by now. Like, I am a hopeless sentimentalist. I love the idea of these two guys who were rivals for years and faced off in a gazillion finals and all of that and then become friends and teammates in the Olympics and are really tight now. So I have a story up on the ringer.com today about how Steph envisions his final chapters

because we all love the idea of like LeBron, Steph, Katie, whoever, going out on the highest note because they're all-time greats, but it never happens that way. So I talked to Steph. That was why I was in Minneapolis. I talked to him about just how he envisions those final stages of his career and what's possible and what that might look like, especially because it's really hard now to envision them winning another championship. They're not ruling it out, obviously. It's what you want. And in the course of that, Steph talked about, you know, he's not. he and LeBron, when they talked about a couple years ago during the Olympics, about comparing

notes on late stages of career, it's not about what you think you can do during the 82 games and playoffs. It's about the offseason. And that's noted in the story. It's in passing, but it's just these are the kind of discussions they've had. They talk about how hard it is to get ready for the season. Like, it sucks. The off season is tough if you're those guys at that stage, that age.

and as hard as they work. So it's whether, you know, you go as long as you can handle the off season, not so much about the season itself. The two of them together would be amazing. We've seen it in the Olympics. Yeah, it's late in their careers. Raj is right. Like, there ain't no defense there.

They'd have to do other things. The real problem, I think, is logistics, though. Like, LeBron's going to have to finally ratchet down on the salary by a lot. Like, whether it's taking a mid-level exception or some, other exception or the minimum. I mean, if he wants to do that, he can go wherever he wants. And, like, I would not rule it out. I don't think he's going back to the Lakers. I'm not alone in that. And so does he go for, you know, the nostalgia tour with Cleveland with probably legitimate chance to win a title, maybe with James Harden, or go, you know, take a, take another big pay cut

and go to the Warriors. Like, I don't think there's that many places you can envision him. But LeBron and stuff together would be awesome. I would love it. Even if they don't make it that far in the playoffs, I'd love to see it. I think it's a real possibility to be honest with you. If LeBron takes a steep pay cut and he's willing to do that, and he's going to get the send off.

Have there been any reports? Like, I'm sorry to interrupt you again. But like, has any, had there ever been any reports from camp about what what what the priority is going to be for him in the offseason i no i don't think so i don't think so i think right i think there's i think they're still working their way through that i mean i think that lucca trade was a big surprise for and up into a lot of plans for lebron and his camp um on because i i think that personally if all things went right if the lucca trade doesn't happen we'd be having a different conversation about how the lakers are

celebrating LeBron and how his and his place within the Lakers organization at this point. But the Luca trade happened and the Lakers have other priorities than just cowtowering LeBron and making a whole spectacle about his pending retirement. But I think that I think the calves are a great destination for what he wants to do. Like everybody seems to suggest this is his last year in Los Angeles. And if that's the case, he can go to Cleveland. and have his send off in the storybook way, right? Especially if the calves are, you know, teetering and maybe they want to break it down.

I'm not saying that they would or would not. But I think the warriors are a possibility as well. Like, I think that he would, you know, he would, the allure to play alongside Steph, the allure to, you know, matter and be in an organization that matters, right? And just narratively speaking, that would be, you know, a thing that he would do. It would be kind of awkward. The retirement send off, though, in the Bay Area. Like, we're, the Bay Area is just like aiding in LeBron's retirement tour. That would be very weird, especially after all the battles and him being a Laker. It would be awkward.

I think the place he should go is Cleveland if all things are considered, but I do think that the war is a possibility. I think he would flirt with the idea of actually doing it. Ultimately, I don't know if he actually would, but I think that he would flirt with the idea of doing it. There's only one play there. I said this before. There's only one place. If I get a vote from it to LeBron family table and we're taking it.

It's only one place. What's that? Go back to Cleveland. It's only one place. Okay. I thought you were going to say, like, you know, next time you go to the clutch brunch, tell them to go back to Miami because it's just fun to have a, you know,

here in Miami. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. All right. I think that's the end of our mail. bag. Yeah, man. Trade deadline. Little wonky. Who knows? You might get a call me and Howard. Hey,

James Hardin just got traded. We might do a topper. But before we do that, let's get the hell out of here. There's been another edition of ruins. My name is Logan Murdoch. That is Howard motherfucking Beck, Roger Bell. See you guys on Friday. I, uh, uh, or we'll see you when we see you this week. I don't know, the scheduling. We'll see. Maybe there's an emergency pod or something that me and Howard are going to be delirious. I'm going to hurry this up, bro. I got to go take a drug test, bro. Robleswell back at gmail.com.

Roblesbemel back at gbill.com. All this shit. Bye. That's for 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with the Kansas star casino or 18 and older and present

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