The Ringer NBA Show - Jaylen Brown, The Boston Celtics and NBA Owners With Jay King | Weekends With Wos

Episode Date: March 25, 2023

Wos is back, this time with The Athletic, Boston Celtics writer Jay King to talk Celtics. Starting off discussing the Jaylen Brown trade rumors and their thoughts on the situation (1:41), next discussing the Celtics overall season and how they are looking gearing up for playoffs (17:30), and lastly they discuss the role of owners in the NBA (30:52). Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Jay King Producer: Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Ariel Hawani, and I wanted to let you know that each and every week, I'm part of a great program called The Ringer MMA Show. I hosted alongside two absolutely brilliant minds. Their names, Chuck Mindenhall and Pizzie Carroll, and every Thursday, a new episode drops where we preview the weekend in mixed martial arts and react to all the biggest news. Plus, after every UFC pay-per-view, we give you a post-fight show. So this is what you have to do. Just follow the Ringer M-M-M-A show on your Spotify app.

So you don't miss an episode. We'll talk to you then. Back, ladies and gentlemen, to the latest edition of Weekends. I'm your host, Big Wasa, K.A. Wazley Lambray. And I'm joined by a very, very esteemed guest. You've read his stuff in the athletic. He's a Western Mass legend. He claims he's a hoot, too.

I don't know. I've never actually seen it with my own two eyes. Jay King, what's going on, brother? Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, man. It's good to see you. Hey, man, same. It's been a minute.

It's been too long. quite honestly. The only time I hear from you these days is when you mean to text Jay Kang accidentally text me. That was crazy. And the shit that I text you is freaking hilarious. But whatever. No, it's funny, man. Whenever I want to get some Boston stuff up here, I generally hit Jared Weiss, your colleague, my former colleague at the Athletic.

But I was like, you know what, man? I need a real hooper in here today. So let me get Jay King up in here, bro. Appreciate you. All right. So, you know, the Celtics, they're in the news this week. Even Bill had Logan up on his show to talk about the situation regarding Jalen Brown. Let me just preface some things for some people listening.

Over the summer and whatever, enough time is elapsed. I don't mind giving this up. But over the summer, I got a text from the. somebody. This is during the KD sweepstakes or the fake KD sweepstakes was like, yo, I'm at a spot on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. And I just seen KD and Jason Tatum walk into the spot together. They're hanging out there, buddy, buddy. This is smack dab in the middle of the request and Brooklyn fielding offers. And I was like, oh, this is a no-brainer. Boss is about to trade. Jalen Brown for KD

and you know some type of package to bring KD over there right like and what the person described is like no these guys are like tight they're really close or whatever and I was like man like you kind of can't let it get out that you put Jalen Brown on a

on a trade block and have it sort of be kumbaya whatever Brooklyn stood pat they ended up getting the package from Phoenix a few weeks ago and Jailenel Brown is still on the team, but I knew, I knew that, like, if, and there was reporting that Boston reached out or Brooklyn reached out, whatever, that preliminary talks had happened.

But I was like, man, if they would even entertain a KD situation, that means something's not completely on the level with Jalen Brown. And then, of course, so whatever, I forget about it. Boston jumps out to a great start of the season. It doesn't even matter that their coaching situation blew up right before the season. things seem to be going great, but now, you know, they've taken their foot off the pedal. The defense doesn't look too good. And then we get these statements from Jalen Brown about like, I don't know, we'll see, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I don't really care. You know, I want to be what people want me and this and this and this and that. And so I wanted to have you up here, man, because what's your interpretation? For me, I just think about KD and the Jason Tatum and them hanging out smack dab in the middle of his trade request. And I'm like, man, Jalen Brown, I feel like was kind of on the trading block last summer. That's how I look at it. How do you look at it? Yeah, and there's a, there was a lot to sift through there because at that same time, like, Tatum wasn't secret about being with Duran at that time.

He posted to his Instagram a picture of him working out with KD, like right when all that stuff was coming around. And it was like, really? Like, why? Like, why are you doing this? What's the benefit here? Strange. And it was bizarre. And you got to understand, like, from our perspective, we see it.

And it's like, this is so weird. And then, of course, Jalen spoke to Tatum. Like, they were speaking to each other around that time. They knew what was actually going on behind the scenes. Tatum has been a huge fan of Durant's for a long time. They played together on the Olympic team. Like, they worked out together. Like, it all makes sense why they were hanging out together.

and I don't think there was any big movement to bring Durant into Boston. But it was strange at the time. And from Jalen's perspective, he's got to be sitting there like, why? Why? Why are they trying to trade me?

We just went to the finals. Why are they trying to trade me? I'm 25. Tatum is 24. We can be contenders in the Eastern Conference for a long time. And dating back to, you know, when those guys were younger,

there were always the Jimmy Butler rumors, the Ball George rumors, the Anthony Davis rumors. And so I'm sure he probably thought that he finally graduated from all that stuff and was in a place where he could be secure. But that wasn't the case. Obviously, over the summer, there was the buzz about Durant and whether the sellers were going to go get him.

And I think from their perspective, it at least sort of would have made sense. Like, Durant, as good as Jalen Brown is, Durant is an obvious upgrade. It's an obvious upgrade. If you put him with Jason Tatum, that would have been just filthy. but if you're Jalen Brown after what happened last season how close they got to the finals the fact that he still

hasn't peaked yet and it's still growing that would bother me it would definitely bother me at least a little bit to know that no matter how close I came to the finals no matter how close we are no matter how much I've accomplished they still weren't totally secure with me so if he does if that stuff does linger

then I understand it and we'll see if it matters because honestly, if he makes all NBA, the Celtics will be able to offer a Supermax extension. And right now he's probably like one of the handful of guys for second team, third team forward, as long as he's eligible at forward. So if he does get the Super Max,

the Celtics can offer that and none of this will probably matter and he'll just sign the deal and get paid all his money and feel respected at the end of the day. but, you know, that's a lot for somebody to deal with after going to the finals. And normally when you're in that situation, your team is content with how it's built. But for Jalen, it was like that had to hit hard. So here's the thing, too, right? Because I know people are going to listen to this and be like, I think you guys, you know,

you guys might be overblowing this. Two guys who have a personal relationship, hang out in the offseason. It's not a big deal. I think to me it's a big deal in the sense that any team that would have wanted to bring KD in and commit the amount of resources towards that goal that it would have taken to bring KD in would have to know that he would have been amendable to the move, that he wouldn't be depressed, you know, about being shipped to, I don't know, like Charlotte or something, right? Where you know for a fact that if he gets shipped there, he's not going to be a happy camper.

And so I felt it interesting that, one, that like in such a public way, they were making it known like, no, we're, if KD came here, it'd be completely fine on that front. He would be completely cool with playing with Jason Tatum. He respects his game. He likes him as a person. That partnership would be seamless. Like, the fact that they would make that public is one thing. And then, two, just to smoke around Jalen Brown's name, like, folks have to understand the, the culture around NBA teams and locker rooms.

When KD... So here's why the smoke mattered. When KD goes on the trade block and Phoenix, even all the way back into the summer, was rumored to be a potential destination. Devin Booker's name was nowhere near it. Right? There's a sort of respect that comes with,

even when we're pursuing other guys. We know everybody... We're going to put it out there. We're going to make it known. Like, Devin Booker cannot be traded for K.D. right? He means that much to what we're doing here. He's in a quote unquote untouchable. He's that type of guy for this operation.

He can't be moved for KD. Right. And that sends a message to the player, right? Like, you're standing here within this organization is unflappable. Nothing can change you. Even a player of the caliber of Kevin Durant, one of the 15 best players ever, can't even change your status here. Right?

That says a lot to a guy. That's a signal to a guy. Conversely, for Jalen Brown, when it comes out that, no, you're not a Devin Booker to the Sons. You can be moved. You're not on a level of Tatum. You don't matter that much here. I think that bruises guys' egos. And I think that matters.

We see that over and over again where perceived slights cloud the dealings that go on between, you know, franchise and play. And then, you know, more importantly with Jalen Brown, bro, like. In the past few years, I know in the group chats that I'm in, people start calling them, you know, Peachtree Street, Kyrie. You know what I'm saying? People start calling him all kinds of stuff. He's sort of shown himself to be a mercurial type of guy. And so I want to ask you, Jay, when did you start seeing sort of, you know, maybe the Jalen Brown and Celtics relationship isn't fantastic, let's say? Look, I don't want to overblow things.

No, overblow it. We're going to get you aggregated today. Let's do it. I don't want to overblow anything here. And I think he's genuinely happy with where he is. I think he and Tatum have a very good working relationship. They've been on the same page, if not forever, for a while. Like, when things were really bad last season and it could have gone either way,

They were in 11th place in January. Like, they were looking like they weren't even going to make the play in tournament, never mind the playoffs. Those guys, they sat down. They talked about what they needed to do as a duo, as the leaders of the team, to push them to where they needed to be. So I think he genuinely likes playing with Tatum. I think he appreciates the team that they have.

I think he has done nothing, been nothing but supportive of Joe Missoula. and the relationship that he has there. So I think there's a lot that he likes about Boston. At the same time, if I were Jalen Brown, it would definitely irritate me the Durant stuff. That would bother me. And then this whole group, not just Jalen, but everybody, like, they've dealt with a lot.

Like go back to the Kyrie year. And Jalen has been open about it since, but it was obvious at the time that he and Kyrie just did not get along. He was not part of the Kyrie faction. It was factions on the team. Him and he was not of the Kyrie faction. No. And Kyrie used to take shots at those guys.

So they lived through like a really tough year, not just inside the locker room, but like fans taking shots at everybody because everyone was kind of disappointing that year. Nobody lived up to their personal expectations, never mind the expectations as a team. So they have that. Then Brad leaves and steps into the front office and Eme Odoca takes over.

They suck for a while. And then Eme turns things around, takes into the finals. Well, E. May gets suspended. And those guys really like Eme Udoca. They love Eme Odoca. They had a lot of respect for Eme Odoca. They credited him with engineering the turnaround. They took a lot from his coaching.

and so everything that happened with him really hurt those guys, really hurt that locker room. And I think it says a lot about the guys that they've played through that and they've stayed together through that and they didn't let it impact the way they approach this season. But there's been a lot that those guys have had to live through in Boston. I guess that's part of it. Like if you stay in a place long enough,

you're going to just deal with a whole lot of different types of experiences. you're going to have to play through a lot of stuff. But it hasn't been like the easiest run ever for Jalen Brown. And if you go back like, so Brad's the president of basketball operations now, I don't think Jalen when he was younger thought Brad appreciated how good Jalen was and gave Jalen the type of role that he wanted. I mean, you know, I think a lot of the tensions between Brad and the guys, the Gordon Hayward situation where Gordon Hayward is Brad Stevenson's guy and he's not playing up to his capabilities yet still being handed minutes and responsibilities.

I know that I rubbed a lot of guys wrong. It did, but also they had to do that. Like if that team was going to succeed, Gordon Hayward was going to be a huge part of it. And so you have to play in big minutes. You have to try to get it back from the injury. Must be said, looking damn good these days. Just saying. When he's on the court, he's very good still.

He's so good. It just hasn't. And not only that, but he fits so well with Tatum, with Brown. And he was a connective piece for those guys. Obviously, he ended up caring that he didn't have the ball all the time he left, maybe just more for money than for the role itself. But on the court, he didn't, wasn't a guy who needed the ball of the time. time didn't need a ton of shots all the time. But yeah, like that whole year, Jalen came off

the bench that year. Like he was benched and had to be with the second unit after a breakout season the year before after helping lead the Celtics to the Eastern Conference Finals, Game 7 against LeBron the year before. So it's like there have been a lot of times in his career when I don't think he felt valued properly. And I can't, I can't, I can't see. say he was always right because early in his career, his rookie year, they had a lot of good players

on that team, and it was tough for him to break through and get minutes. But a lot of the times, he's been the one who's had to sacrifice. He's been the one who's seen his name in rumors.

So eventually that stuff accumulates. And to his credit, he's been able to put it aside. He's always focused on the basketball. Right now, as these stories come out, he's playing probably his best basketball of the season, maybe the best basketball of his life. Life. His assists have gone up. His turnovers have gone down. He's averaging 30 points a game

over his last seven or eight games. Like when everyone else was chilling, he was trying to light everybody on fire and get the Celtics back rolling. He's probably been the only starter that they've had that's really played at a high level lately consistently. So it hasn't affected him. And honestly, it might be the case. where he just makes all NBA and they get they super max them and then it's over. And that's, that's, that's, that's, I bring this up because it's topical. But to be honest, man, I've kind of gotten past the whole disgruntled star shit. You Bradley Beal me, you Zach Levine me, I'll be more than happy to stay.

That's it. It's that simple. And look, look, like there's a lot of nuance to this, right? Like, you have a job. there's a lot of good aspects of your job, I'm sure, and there's some things that you wish you could change. Of course, that's every single job. And so at the end of the day...

Exactly. And at the end of the day, Jalen knows that he's in a good spot. He knows he's in a place where he can thrive both individually. They made the All-Star team again this season and as a team. And he likes his coach. He likes his teammates. Like, there's a lot that Jalen Brown appreciates. It's just that right now,

because of the comments that he made both to the ringer and the New York Times, like it's the stuff that he doesn't love 100% that we're talking about, which is fair, but also like it's a nuanced discussion, I guess, about his feelings for Boston. All right, let's talk about the actual sees themselves. Just check the standings there in second place in the East, two and a half game behind the bucks who refused to lose anymore, apparently. 50 and 23, 5 and 5 in their last 10.

You know, as much as it feels like the sky has been falling for three weeks to a month now, they're still in the catbird seat. They're going to finish within the top three of the East, pretty much guaranteeing themselves home court in the first round and probably more than likely home court in the second. What's been going on? I know me personally, I've brushed it aside when a team. starts the season like gangbusters a year after they go all the way to the NBA finals

and damn they take the whole shit. I'm like, you know, they're allowed to take their foot off the gas at a certain point in this long-ass-ass-season. Hashtag, shorten the season, please. So I can't put too much stock into this. Do you think there's real genuine stuff to be concerned? Because to me, again, last year in January, when they started turning this thing I think it was, man, it might have been around March when I finally watched like three,

four games in a row of the Celtics. And what they was doing when they figured out the Robert Williams staying towards the basket and everything else is a switch on the perimeter. And they were literally suffocating, like suffocating guys on defense, smashing team defensive records and all of that. Like, yeah, that was crazy. They were doing it on defense. The defense this year has not been the world record breaking.

Aside from that, have you seen anything that's like, oh, maybe this might be a thing that we need to monitor. Well, it's funny because every time I look at the defensive ratings, I'm like, how are they fourth? How is this team fourth? Because they have taken such a step back from last season. And part of that has been Robert Williams has just missed most of the season. And when he's out there, and especially when he's next to Al Horford, they have still been incredibly difficult to score on. But he's missed a lot of time. I think, honestly, they came into this season on a mission, right?

They lost in the finals. They wanted to get back to the finals. They wanted to change the ending of it. Jason Tatum hated the way that he played in the finals. He hated the taste that left in his mouth. They came in to destroy teams at the beginning of this season, even with Robert Williams out. Lately, I think some of that motivation has waned.

And especially Tatum. Tatum has been, I think he should make first team all-NBA, but since the All-Star break, he has been not at the level he was before. He's missing. He's like shooting 29% from three. The defense fell off. And I think part of that is just motivation. It's like, they came in on a mission.

And now they're like, well, we can't really do anything about it until we get to the playoffs. Now they've reached the point where it's like, all right, we need these games of matter a little bit to spark us. But yeah, I think the Robert Williams piece is most important. If he's healthy, their defense is just on another level. If he's healthy, he raises their ceiling. Like, last year in the playoffs, he was dragging around one leg, like hobbling around. And still a huge, huge impact guy. Still when he played against Golden State, they were beating the warrior.

Like, he was part of their best stretches against Golden State. and so if he's that guy, if he's healthy, if he's at a different level even than he was in the playoffs last season, then they're going to be really difficult to beat. If he's not, then their offense is going to have to make a lot of shots because this is not a team that gets to the rim a lot. It's not a team that draws a ton of free throw attempts.

And they have a ton of shooting threats. Like top to bottom, with the exception of Williams, everybody can shoot threes at a high level or, or at least get him up, Marcus Smart. But that's kind of how it's going to have to be if Robert Williams isn't available all the time. And his health is like, that's the biggest thing to me. What is your sense of what, what is the team saying

both, you know, publicly and behind the scenes? What are they saying about the nature of his injury right now? Well, he's back. He played against Sacramento. With him, the last two, three years since he became a big part of the team, it's like they're always holding their breath. Like can he stay healthy? Can he stay on the court?

And it's funny because Danny Aange, he doesn't like to be called Bob. And Danny Ains calls him, he calls him Bob when he's not in the lineup. So whenever he's heard, he calls him Bob. And so they were in Utah the other night. And Robert Williams didn't play. So Danny Age called him Bob. But the fact that he even had that inside joke is like, it's because he wasn't on the court a lot.

You know, like it's a funny thing until you realize it's because they wanted him on the court more often. So that's a thing. But he's healthy. Like, he's fine. But it's just they'll always be holding their breath about him. Yeah, I mean, for me, with Williams, it feels like this is just a matter of usage. Like, he just can only play but so many games before, you know, things flare up with the knee.

Like, and I don't, there's no, you know, this isn't a torn ACL or this isn't like some MCL or whatever where you get your surgery and you really. rehab it and then you come back and it, you know, it is what it is. This seems to just be the condition of his knee no matter what. And for the Celtics, it's just like, we want him to be playing in the most important games, which aren't until the playoffs, and that's how they've managed it. And I think they've done a good job. I want to talk about Joe Missoula and the job that he's done, you know, a few months back. They said he's permanently the coach.

He's no longer got the interim tag. Just like, what do you think about? about the job that he's done this year, where do you think he's excelled and where do you think he's sort of had, you know, a bit of a growing pains type of situation? As much as you can for a team that's on its way to like 55 wins

and, you know, a top three seed. Yeah, the most impressive part was just navigating the E-May situation because that was a seriously emotional locker room. Like, those guys really cared about E-May. they were really broken up to lose the coach that led him to the finals. A bunch of assistants on staff were close friends of EMA. That's why he brought them into Boston.

And some of them, including, I'm sure, Damon Stodomar, was probably like, you know, first of all, torn up about his friend and really emotional about that. But also, like, why they named this 34-year-old dude, head coach instead of me? You know? And so Joe had to navigate a lot. And to keep everybody on the same page to get everyone together, both players, staff, all of it. Like that says a lot about him as a leader. That says a lot about the relationships.

He builds with guys. The things where he's kind of been learning, I think, well, there's a lot. As any rookie coach, especially the guy's younger than I am. He's 34 years old. He was coaching Fairmont State D2 school like four years ago. I think, like, they have a, it's a tough, it's a good problem to have to have a lot of players who are able to be on the court at the end of games. But you got to put the right ones out there. And the Derek White thing has been just weird because Derek White.

white not getting enough tick, you mean? You look, yeah, you look at the the on-off numbers. You look at any of the catch-all metrics. You look at just the way the team performs when he's on the court. They're always better when he's out there. He's been probably

one of the Celtics three best players this season consistently and rarely plays in crunch time. And part of that, I think, is because if you tell Marcus smart, like you're sitting at the end of games,

like, no. That's not going to go well. If you tell Derek White, he's sitting at the end of games, he's like, all right, cool. Marcus deserves to play too. He's really good, too. Gotcha. So I think that's part of it.

But also, it's like, they go small sometimes, put Malcolm Brognan out there. They'll throw Grant Williams out there. And it's like, Joe has, at times, even said, I screwed up. I should have had Derek out there. And then the next game, it's like, where's Derek?

Why isn't he closing again? So that's one of the issues. Look, Joe knows a lot more about his team than I do. He knows all the numbers just like I do. There are things that he's navigating that I'm sure I'm just not privy to. But that would be one issue. And then, you know, it's funny because their crunch time numbers look great. Last year, their crunch time numbers weren't great at all.

But sometimes it feels like they always run the same play to Jason Tatum in crunch time. Yeah. They don't use dealing Brown enough in crunch time sometimes. Yeah. And these are all nitpicking things, but also there are things that could really matter. Like, how do you handle the last minute of a playoff game in the Eastern Congress finals against the Milwaukee Bucks? And just be less predictable.

I just, as much as we love Jason Tatum, he's not some guy that you just, you know, you give him the ball and automatically answers will arrive. Like, it's not that. I think there needs to be more consideration and designed of what, how they attack defenses down the stretch, right? My man Henry, Henry Abbott likes to say execution is what wins in the clutch and not just superstar play. I tend to think it's a mixture of both.

And quite frankly, I tend to lean on the superstar side these days, more so than I used to. But, yeah, I think it is about diversifying their approach down the stretch. And the minutes thing has been weird from the start of the season. Like, they went to the finals last year. Jason Tatum ran out of gas. And Brad Stevens said, like, we need to do a better job of limiting minutes throughout the season. He's second in minutes per game in the league behind Pascoe Ocum. He's playing more minutes than he did last season.

It's like, why? And then you look at it, he hasn't played at the same level since the All-Star Break. Well, maybe he's tired. You know, like, maybe he's played too many minutes. But then you look at it. And last year, they were like, they had to win every game down the stretch. They were literally fighting for their playoff position, like a spot in the playoffs, not like their seat. Like a spot in the playoffs at first.

And then for home court advantage. And then by the time you look up there, like, near the top of the standings, but it took them until the very end of the season to get there. And now they have like the benefit of being able to, if you're, like, you don't have to play 100% all the time. You can pace yourself, even if you're playing all those minutes, you can pace yourself a little bit. And with Robert Williams, like, they've been very patient with him whenever he's had an injury. Like, it's okay. You're going to miss the first 29 games of the season. That's cool.

Get yourself right. You hurt your handstring. Cool. Like, to take as much times you need, we will wait for you. Like, it's not about right now. And so that's one thing of getting out to a 21 and five start. But I think, Missoula, really, like, for the most part, he's done a really good job. And what I think was it was underappreciated.

how much he had to go through as a head coach because he did it so well. Yeah, and we say it all the time up here. It's, you know, you could be the X's and those genius that you want to be. If you can't effectively communicate to the players what your vision is, it doesn't matter. If they're going out there, going through the motions, you can have the shiniest freaking chalkboard you want and the most brilliantly constructed plays that you want. Those shiny chalkboards, baby. Nobody cares. If the players don't go out and run it hard and run it with purpose

and see the vision that you've, you know, sort of laid out for them, then it's not going to matter. And this guy's clearly gotten through to those guys. And to me, to me, that's enough to justify his promotion. However, I do want to get you out of here on this. Joe Missoula's the permanent coach, Ime Adoka, has not been fired. Make it make sense for me, please. No, so E. May is, I believe, no longer part of the organization at this point.

So his contract is cooked? I believe it's he's no longer a part of the organization that when they, that's my understanding of the situation, is that when they named Joe, the head coach, part of it was that E. May was no longer part of things. So just saying it right here, Emey Doak is no longer. longer under contract with the Boston Celtics. I believe that's correct. Yes. I would never claim that any of this stuff was easy and especially the nature of, you know, our business and these leaks with half information and, you know, people that work, women

that work at the org, it becomes this sort of like blind item situation where folks are trying to guess who the woman. Like, that was fucking terrible. Everything about that was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was God awful. You know what I mean? I just, you know, to me, when these owners and they come out

and they never, you know, like here's the thing, Joe Missoula, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown makes a statement to us to New York Times. The next game, he got Jay King in his face asking him more questions. Could double back on the shit he said before. Could do this, could do it. Like, literally the next freaking day,

he got more people in his face asking him more questions, right? Like, just straight up, he has to own all of that stuff. This isn't college where the coaches get to hide you from harm, all of that stuff. Like, he just gets to do that. Boom, automatically. The owners is the opposite. These dudes make all of these decisions unilaterally and essentially in a black box

and they don't have to answer for shit ever. It just, I don't know, that rubs me the wrong way. It just does. Like, the people who we... I need you to have a podcast. podcast just about owners, like just how owners move and operate. Oh, my God. You know what's so funny, man.

You could get at Mark Cuban for his tweets and everything after the game last night. He's awful. The fact that people think Mark Cuban is some kind of genius, savant, whatever, is a joke. I'll say this, you know, because we're going to have this labor piece and they're just going to come up, come to a CBA agreement with no problems. we're not going to get to lay into these guys. But oh my God, I wish there was some labor strife so we could just go, just go nasty on the owners.

I would love nothing more. I would love nothing more than to kill that particular group of individuals. But you really should have a podcast that's just about how the owners move and operate. Like, think of how much content you could have. Nobody really talks about the owners. Bro, they're basically anonymous. They get to be anonymous people. Some people, there are owners who inject themselves

into the public conversation like a Cuban, right? You're not mad the owners would be if they just had you taking shots at them all the time? I mean, they don't give a damn about me. Like, whatever. Oh, yes, they do. Yes, they do. They don't care what I have to say.

It's just like, to me, I just want people who listen to the show who care about the league to be like, these people's, like we talk about player empowerment, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that dumb shit. The people who have an inordinate, disproportional amount of influence on our game that we love are the owners. And they get the least amount of coverage for it. What do you feel about Michael Jordan as an owner? Obviously, he stinks.

We just had it on group chat. We had it on group chat yesterday. We think that Charlott's, we are more optimistic about the future of Charlotte as a franchise because this dude is about to sell the team. Clearly, the greatest player of all time. Obviously, I owned so many pairs of his sneakers. He was my hero growing up. He's the reason I care about basketball is Michael Jordan. His track record as an owner is horrible.

Terrible. Terrible. He's terrible. He's about to sell right before they might get Wembe Nyama. God bless Wemniamma. I'll say that. He doesn't want to go to Charlotte. I'll say that.

He's saying the right things, though. He's like, oh, I'm not worried about what team I go to, blah, blah, blah, blah, but trust me, that's NBA Siberia at this point. Lamello and Wimbuniama would be tough, though. I would love to see it. I would love to see him in Detroit. I would love to see him in a myriad of places. There's a lot of places, yeah. Almost everywhere actually has like, it would be an intriguing landing spot.

I need the Pelicans, although the Lakers, Lakers might be too good for that. The Lakers are making a playoffs, bro, and the Pelicans in that. Austin Reeves, Austin Reeves is denying a Zion and Wilming Yama.

Listen, man, Austin Reeves is quickly shot up my rankings of favorite guys to watch on league pass. What he's doing. He's a lot of game. Dude, what he's, they just straight up like, yo, run the offense.

Initiate pick and roll. We trust you to distribute. We trust you to read the defense enough to know when to take it to the rack. He's coming off a picking roll, putting Chris Paul in jail and pulling up right in front of him and drawing files. I'm like, yo, what in the hell am I watching right now? Austin Reeves is incredible. It's crazy he went undrafted. And great that he was old and couldn't really shoot threes, but he's a six-five athletic point guard with a lot of game.

You see everybody's mad at him now because he's drawing all these free throws. everybody. He's getting fouled. Matt, he gets foul more than Steph Curry and yada, yada. But he's getting fouled. He's, watch the game. He's always been great at drawing fouls. Look at his college stats. Like, everyone was hacking him back then because he's got a lot of game. And he draws contact. And he's a big, big guard. This is how I know you, my man, Jay King, is that you naturally veer me into white American hooper territory, which is what I'm going to do anyway. I learned you here. I learned you here.

I love it. Anyway, man, we got to get you up out of here. But tell the people where they can find you and your incredible work on the Internet, man. Appreciate you, man. At the Athletic, I write about the Celtics and have a podcast, anything is possible. I'm also on the Athletic NBA show

on what days, Mondays and Thursdays, if they want to listen to me and Zach Harper and the boys. That's it. That's our show for today. sure you subscribe to the ringer NBA feed all of our other offerings, the answer, real ones, the NBA draft show, all of that. Make sure you check all of that out. Shouts to our lovely producer, Jade Whaley.

She keeps the trains running on time. She's one of the best in the business, of course. We will see you guys next week. Peace.