The Ringer NBA Show - Jayson Tatum Returns, Red-Hot Hornets, and Kerr vs. Kuminga | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 6, 2026

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck are back with another edition of Real Ones and discuss the return of Celtics All-NBA forward Jayson Tatum. Is it too soon for him to return? Could Tatum mess up the chemistry of a Celtics team that currently holds the second spot in the East? The Charlotte Hornets have been hot since the new year with the emergence of rookie Kon Knueppel and 2023 second overall pick Brandon Miller. How tough of an out will they be for teams at the top of the conference? Plus, did Steve Kerr botch the development of Jonathan Kuminga, who's been thriving in Atlanta? (0:00) Intro (2:30) Jayson Tatum Returns (33:05) The Red-Hot Hornets (50:30) Steve Kerr's Comments on Jonathan Kuminga (1:12:39) Real One of the Week Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. Howard Beck in New York. You're not at the phone bank, are you? You're not... Where are you?

What studio are you in? I'm in the studio that's not Amy Poller's studio. I wasn't quite worthy of it today. Okay. It's the other one. I don't know what you're talking about phone banks and shit. I have no idea what you're saying. All right, man.

Let's get to the shits. We're going to try to have a very constructive conversation about Jason Tatum's return without offending or talking a lot of shit about another NBA legend. Is that fair? Can we get through a Jason Tatum conversation without that? I don't even know which NBA legend you're talking about. No, seriously. Like, there are five different names potentially popped into my head. So I will try not to offend any of them though. I was, yeah. You guys didn't see the controversy in the chat? Never mind. Let's just get to it. I can't see the chat. I saw that with you talking about the trainer?

the trainer, the trainer, the back and forth with the trainer and Carmelo? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that one, that one. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I got mixed emotions. I didn't think, I mean, a former player can't, like, of Carmelo's stature, give advice to Jason Tatum without it being offensive to his trainer? Like, is that, that's the world we're living in?

Like, someone like Carmelo, that's one. Carmelo won a championship as I believe a freshman at Syracuse. He was on multiple gold medal teams and he can't, one of the best scorers, maybe ever. He can't give advice to a young fellow like Jason Tatea without his trainer hopping in. I don't know either. I don't know the trainer, so I don't have any beef.

But like that's kind of crazy that he was, I saw it too. Like he said something like to the effect of, imagine Mello giving J.T. advice on winning or something like that? Was it something like that, right? Yeah, that was paraphrasing, but yes, that's exactly

what it was said, yes. Yeah, I found that, I found that to be kind of crazy. It's the world we live in, Roger, you know? Yeah. Yeah, no disrespect to him, but like that, that's crazy. Yeah. So, six-time All-Star Jason Tatum is expected to make his season debut tonight whenever you guys listen to this podcast,

this is Friday night. Against the Dallas Mavericks, just 10 months after tearing his right Achilles in the second round against the New York Knicks, he will join a Celtics team that is number two in a wide open Eastern conference with a little under a month left in the season. There's so many,

I feel like we have been kind of double-dutching our way into this conversation because we didn't have a confirmation either way if he was coming back. But now that we have it, I'll start with Raja and then go to HBek. How do we feel about this? It's here. He's coming back on a title contending team somehow,

and he has to figure out his role within a new confines. How do we feel about this, Raja Bell? Yeah, I've never wavered on this. I don't think the reward is worth the risk. I just, I don't. I know there have been advancements. and, you know, medical technology and it shortens the length of rehab for people

on some of these injuries in a way that that's pretty remarkable. Do you guys remember when Kyrie went down last year and you guys were like, he won't play next year? And I was saying that there was a case that he could potentially come back with the rehab schedule for an ACL. Do you remember that? And we kind of lightweight argued about that.

Thank you. Yep. I remember that. This is even wilder. Coming off of the Achilles on this timeline is unprecedented. And look, I hope the best. I'm sure they've, they've vetted this and done their due diligence. And everyone there feels like the risk is that minimal.

Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it. I just really hope it plays out like that. I don't have any, I don't have any worries necessarily about him fitting in or what his role needs to be. You know, I think he's played enough basketball there. I think he's a good enough player to figure out how he fits with what they're doing. Now, I'm not super concerned with that. I'm more concerned with a young player that's already on the trajectory to be, you know,

phenomenal, having that derailed because you rushed something back that typically takes a little bit longer to come back from. And I hope it doesn't play out like that. And that's my concern. But I've never wavered on the fact that I don't think the reward, the possible reward here, you're not beating one of those teams out of the Western Conference, in my opinion. less Jason Tatum is Jason Tatum from pre-injury, which you're not going to be, dude. Like, do we have any, do we have any evidence of anyone coming back from an injury like this

on the regular timetable and looking exactly like they look before the injury? No, we don't. No, you don't. You don't. And so for someone coming back even in a more condensed period of time, logically, I would think he doesn't hit his stride for a while. And in that world, I don't think you beat either one of those teams that's coming out, any of the teams coming out of the Western Conference. So again, for me personally, reward not worth the risk.

So I've said this and I think I've said it with you guys. I've definitely said it on Zach's pot a couple weeks back and elsewhere. We're in a time where it's not just that sports science and training and everything else have advanced. I do believe that, and I say this understanding, there are always some misgivings from athletes. about medical staffs that are employed by the team, Raja. Like, I get this. I do not think in the year 26, the Boston Celtics, their front office, ownership, medical staff trainers, Tatum himself, his personal trainer, everybody who works with him, they're not letting him on the court if there's any substantial risk beyond the normal risk. There's a risk of him not being himself.

In fact, there's an almost certainty that he's not the Jason Tatum we're used to seeing. but that's, I think, the psychological hurdle that he probably had to get over in deciding to come back now. And again, I've referenced Derek Rose from back in the day when he tore his ACL. He took a long time to come back and was criticized for doing so. But as I recall and understood it at the time, Derek Rose didn't want to be back until he could be Derek Rose. And Jason Tatum, I think, to his credit, is making a concession in this.

He could wait another six months and no one would blink an eye and come back ready to start next season, a lot closer to the Jason Tatum that he's used to being. And again, probably very little chance of being. He's going to be some percentage of himself, but not fully at the old level. I'd credit him for that because you have to swallow a lot of pride and ego to even do that. I mean, he said in his documentary that's been airing, I think, on Peacock, something to the effect of like, I'm not coming back to be a role player, but it's kind of what he has to be, at least compared to what he's normally been. He's been a top five player in this league.

He has been the lead on that Celtics team with all due respect to Jalen Brown. It's been, you know, Tatum 1A, Brown 1B. He's going to come back to a team that is Brown 1A and where because Tatum can't be fully himself yet, he's probably not going to have the same level of explosiveness and everything that we're used to seeing. He almost has to be more. Now, that's not a role player, right? He's not Peyton Pritchard. He's not Derek White.

he's going to be co-star, but it's going to be a little bit of a reversal here. But they've done that before. Like, they did it in winning the finals when J-Lebrown was the MVP. Sure. He's been one-be plenty of times. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Any given night, any given playoff series, right, Raja, those guys have the ability to kind of toggle and defer to each other when necessary, play off of each other. Like, I have no concerns whatsoever about the ego of it all or whose team is it of it all. I think all that's silly. I think you're right in flagging the physical part of this, the well-being of Jason Tatum first. But again, I do not think anybody associated with the Celtics would be giving the green light to do this if they thought there was any undue risk to him. And then let me just make a quick just observation about the coming back. And, you know, as you said, like, I think we all expect like the Western Conference winner is the NBA champion, right?

We could be wrong on that, though. We're wrong plenty on our prognostic. in this world. But yeah, it's probably that, you know, whatever, thunder, spurs, nuggets, take your pick, are going to eventually win the title against whoever comes out of the East. But, man, windows are short in this league, and they're shorter than ever in this era. And so where I once would have said, you know what, take your time, you and Jalen Brown are both in your primes. You don't need to rush it back.

And he doesn't, but next year's not guaranteed. Two years after that's not guaranteed. And your team has the fourth best record in the entire league right now without you. That suggests to me that they've got a shot to at least make the finals and maybe even win another championship. And I'm kind of in the mode now of like fucking seize the day, man. Sees the day because there are no guaranteed tomorrow's in the NBA, in this age of parity, in this age of guys getting traded and leaving teams, in this age of somebody else. else's injury possibly sinking you.

Go for it. It's right in front of you. Go for it. I see. I was, I feel you. I understand what you're saying in this day and age, Howard. But it's always been a level of it needs to be right now. And there's no promise of tomorrow in the NBA and by extension life.

Right. I think with this, the more and more I think about this Jason Tatum thing, I feel like there is a level of selfishness in this. return and what he is trying to to accomplish. And I think, and I'm not saying it as necessarily a diss because I think you need a level of that to play at his level and in this league, right? But to come in March, because I was thinking about like other players that have come after significant injuries this late in the season of his stature.

And we do have an example of that. And that's Kauai Leonard last year, but he came in January, right? he came back from his injury around that time. And the things that are required of adjacent Tatum, even if he's going to be a number two, is so much to ask on March 6th going into a playoff run. You're talking about not only getting into regular season form, but late regular season form.

And then you're talking about trying to get your win for playoff form and be expected to test that Achilles on a playoff stage where so many guys are playing at a crazy level that you haven't even gotten to yet. When I think that he is not putting himself, whether he's cleared or not, I don't think he and by extension to Boston Celtics are putting themselves in a great chance to win for the postseason at this point and make that finals run that you speak of that they need to make because they are going to have to insert a piece like Jason Tatum, who is trying to figure himself out on the fly.

And while he does that, there's going to be disruptions. There's going to be disruptions as he tries to find himself offensively. It's going to mess up the mojo. And I wouldn't be surprised, honestly, if the Boston Celtics, and I hope I'm wrong because they've had a great season. And I think Jalen Brown has done a great job. But I think inserting a piece of the stature of Jason Tatum could really derail what they have going on. right now and we could see a exit earlier than expected because of this because they're trying

to constantly have to manage the situation when they when they could when they could have just put this you know kick the can down the road have a full training camp which they haven't had you're not going to have practice time around this time to kind of gel in this new version in a perfect world yeah he is a role player and he's the number two but even to ramp up to be a number two raja is a lot to ask for a coming off of 10, after 10 months of tearing his Achilles. That's a lot to ask. It's a lot to ask for anyone, but for someone to have that type of offensive

and defensive responsibility that he earned at this point. Yeah, let me touch on a couple of things. One, yeah, there could be, I kind of, I'm kind of in between the two of you guys in terms of what the team would look like. There's definitely a possibility that reinserting him into that chemistry causes some disruption.

I tend to believe that, because of what he's represented to that team in the past and the type of players and the style that they're playing right now that they can figure that out quick enough if he's playing well for it not to be the reason why they necessarily lose not the chemistry of it all maybe just because they're not good enough right like I don't think he upsets the chemistry that much I would ask you to look at like football players when they hold out of camp right guys that hold out of entire camps and the injury rate that the sustained injury rate that they have when they come back. They haven't played and trained and had enough time to get their body in football shape.

While basketball is not football, I mean, there's a level of shape that you have to be in to protect not just that Achilles, but the other tendons, ligaments, joints in your body. When you come back from any injury, let's say it is quantitative. that you are moving at 100% capacity on that Achilles. Like, let's say that there's some machine they can strap him to and be like, 100% pliability on the Achilles, 100% strength in the calf, 100% dorsiflection in the ankle. Like all of those things go into your gate and whether or not you can run

and biomechanically move the way you've done for your life, right? So let's say that none of that's going to be off, which because of any of it's fractionally off, you're putting stressors in other places, right? and thus enhancing the risk of injury there. But let's say, again, all of that is normal. Let's get to the trust of it. You've got 100% firing in that calf, that Achilles,

everything's looking good and you just don't trust it. So like we're out there and you're limping in a way that the metrics don't suggest you should be limping or you're tentative in a way that the metrics don't suggest you should be tentative because it's in your mind. That's a hard thing to come back from. Well, then guess what? you're becoming more susceptible to in other areas.

More load than they're used to carrying, more impact than they're used to absorbing, thus increasing the chance for other injuries. Look, again, I hope I'm wrong. All of that is factual. So like, again, to me, if we're sitting here agreeing that for the most part, we believe the winner of this is going to be in the Western Conference, I don't think the possible reward for them is worth the risk of that. and I hope I'm wrong because like sustaining any type of secondary catastrophic injury because of that one and having to then rehab again, that's career derailing possibly.

Yeah. I mean, Raja, all fair completely. And I respect like, listen, you're coming at this through the lens of a pro athlete who has to like manage all of that risk and the psychology of it all, the career of it all. and I see all that. I just, again, I do not think that Tatum or anyone around him

is greenlighting this unless they're sure of all that. And this is not like an NFL. Howard, sorry. He's been training for like forever. Keep your thought though. You can't be sure of it, is my point. There are no certainty in life.

You can think you're sure of it because of what you've seen in training. But man, when live bullets start flying and live pace takes over and in practice, I can protect an injury. Every single day I go in there, Howard, on the way back from a torn calf,

I can protect it in a way because this is practice. It doesn't mean as much as his game. But if I have to be spontaneous in any way and I haven't been 100% true with myself in that space, I'm in trouble. And that's all I'm saying. It's like, yeah.

Yeah, I believe his team believes everything is great, but you just can't know that until you're out there in real shit. I mean, he had surgery. the next morning, which was fortuitous in the sense that this happened at Madison Square Garden in New York, you know, a mile or less than that from hospital for special surgery. He was there the next day, Dr. Martin O'Malley, who's done a lot of these, did the surgery. And he has said, there was quotes that O'Malley's given about how being able to do it immediately has a huge

benefit to your timeline and your healing and all of that. So this isn't the usual one. We can't probably compare it to any Achilles of the past. And, you know, whether they're using, you know, like, we've all read the stories at P3 where they've got those like the plates where you can measure your explosiveness and all that stuff. Like, I am sure the Celtics have used every bit of technology available to them at their facility and wherever else around the country that they've wanted to send him to make sure that everything is firing right, that to your point, Rajah, that he's not over

favoring anything that he's not putting himself in a position. And he's had some five on five for the last couple of weeks. And I think during that time, I'm sure every eyeball on him from the training staff to the coaching staff to the front office is looking for, hey, you know, is he moving right? You know, again, we've got the ability now with tracking cameras and everything else to see everything, every last like microscopic detail of the way of the way a guy is moving. And if there's any deviation from his norm, they can flag that and say, you know what? Nope. There's hesitation or nope, you're off by a little bit and that's going to put your ankle at risk or your knee or your hips. I just, maybe I have an undue amount of faith in all this, Raja, in the technology and the sophistication of the modern professional franchise and everything they've got available to them. Again, I just don't think they're letting them come back. And I think that if they see any warning signs, maybe they didn't see them in the last couple weeks of five on five.

But if they see those warning signs in tonight's game or in a couple of days, maybe they pull the plug. Maybe they decide it's not worth it. Maybe Tatum himself says, you know what, it's just not feeling right. But if you feel right right now well enough to say it's time, I'm good, and I can see a pathway for us to the finals, I mean, that's, you know, that's what you're out there for, right? And I just, I'm, and I'll admit this too. there's a part of me that just wants to see this happen just from the pure standpoint of this is absolutely unprecedented. It's unprecedented.

No one does this. No one does this, dude. It's not just Achilles. It's not even just the Achilles. The only analogy we really have with the last like 30 years is like Michael Jordan coming out of his first retirement from playing baseball and saying I'm coming back with like, you know, 15 games to go or whatever. But that's not even this.

This is one of the top five players in the NBA. coming back to a team that everyone in the world thought was taking a gap year, to a team that shed four of its key rotation guys without him, that despite everything is somehow in a position to make a finals run even without him, and he's coming back from one of the toughest injuries in sports. It's an incredible story. I literally imagine what's going through his head right now. How long after he tore his Achilles, and I always like,

I hate him to talk about it. It's such a crazy. It's why I won't, it's why when people ask me to go out and shoot or play pickup, I'm like, I'm absolutely not, dude. I am not, like, that injury scares the hell out of me. How long after he sustained it did Halley sustain it? It's a couple weeks? About a month.

Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, look, again, not everyone heals the same way, but I'd be fascinated to get a microphone in front of Halley and their team and ask them, like, yo, where's he in his rehab? Like if you guys were in the mix, could he play in three weeks? I think he actually started contact, didn't he? Or started five on five? Something like that?

I don't know. Like that'd be, yeah. I mean, also, you know, as we all say all the time, like every, every ACL is different. Every Achilles is different. Every injury, every guy, right? So I don't know if we should be comparing, but it's a fair point. Like Halliburton's even younger than Tatum. But he did.

He did tear it a month later too. No, that's what I said in a month, right? Or in three weeks, whatever the time is. And look, all that can be right. And I just say again, man, like force plates, I mean, I've been, even since I left the calves, and I was blown away at the time being with the calves at how far sports science had come from when I played, which was like just five years prior to that. But traveling around with my boys and being privy to like what they have in college

locker rooms now to really, you know, quantify your imbalances and try to figure out how to make you symmetrical. It's so much more advanced than it was when I was with the calves. It's incredible. So you're right on all of that, Howard. What you can't quantify again, I get on that force plate, you tell me to explode, that registers even, even weight distribution, even power output, all of that. But it can't measure my brain. So it can't measure like when I come. down the lane the first time and go to take off and I'm in the air and something in my head says, hey, be careful when you land. And what that does.

And that's the space that I'm worried for him in. And I, again, I mean this. I hope to God I'm wrong. Or I hope that you're right in that if they see any, look, any inkling of Yotis doesn't shut him down. Isn't that every injury though, Raja? Like I remember covering when, when, so Kevin Durant remember three foot surgeries in 18 months. months. And we all wondered if Kevin Durant, even that time, forget the Achilles years later.

Yeah. But when he was still in Oklahoma, three foot surgeries in 18 months for a guy who's a virtual seven-footer, the history of NBA players who are around that height with foot problems, and the careers just being never the same or cutting short. And I remember going out to do a feature on Kevin Durant in Oklahoma that year. It was just in like 2015. And just like the gas, not the gasp, this weird feeling, this weird buzz in the arena as Kevin Durant came out for his first preseason game after the 18 months or whatever he'd been out or two years been a long stretch and and I think that was like it's a similar version of it right like is he going to look the same is he going to jump the same and he probably everybody when you're coming back from any serious

injury that's the first thing you're thinking right is or trying not to think about is the land or the the the first explosion whatever and so I mean any low any lower body injury yes but but but but but like the difference is every other injury that I can remember like this, people have erred on the side of caution because of that reason. And I'm not saying they were cautious, but like there's certainly, I don't,

you know, like this is the quickest we've ever seen someone come back from that. So like that's all I have to go on. Your point is your point. There's been others. This quickly? 10 months. Yeah,

West Matthews and some others. Yeah. Okay. West Matthews was torn in March and came back in opening night. That makes me feel good. But he was also, but the difference between, there's between Tatum and Wesley Matthews is the roles on the team and the world. No, neither one of them looked good. Yeah, and Kobe came back.

He toured as in April, came back December of that year. And, you know, but he was 34 at that time. And, you know, he didn't play well to start either. And he rushed all the way back. I'm with you, Roger. I want to get to another point. First of all, a little clarification. That does make me feel better, though. Sorry.

Like, I didn't know those. But that makes me feel a little better. Could I just actually quick data point on this, Logan, before we lose this thread? This is from in streetclothes.com, Jeff Stott's trainer, who documents catalogs all this stuff and does a great job with all this. The average time missed for qualified NBA cases, for this meaning Achilles, is roughly 10 months. So, like, this is about the norm. because he's saying that's the average time missed. So some have gone longer, some have gone, obviously not that many have gone shorter,

but he's saying the average time missed is roughly 10%. And I think the other thing that we could push onto that, like the ones of the Achilles that we know, is still unprecedented because he's coming back in March, right? Like Kobe came back in December. If he was Tatum's age, that would be a little bit more palatable. But he's coming with a month left in the season. That's just, that's as a,

going into the Achilles injury, a number one option, maybe a number two option going into a playoff push. Like that is pretty unprecedented. But he has the luxury too, though, of Jalen Brown being capable of being the number one. So whereas Kobe comes back or some other guys come back and it's, you know, if I'm not myself, my team can't even function. Tatum has the luxury now. And this is why all the stuff about, you know, people reading into the whose team is

and all that stuff is stupid. Tatum has the luxury of being able to lean on Jalen Brown, knowing that Jalen Brown is fully capable of being a number one because they've done it before at times and because Jalen Brown's been doing it all season. And so Tatum doesn't have to force the issue. He can ease into this if he needs to and he can afford to be, he could be their third leading score if necessary after Derek White or Peyton Pritchard. Like it's, I think that that is actually part of the benefit of the context in which he's coming back. That's true. But But it's easier to say that, and I would like to see that on film before I can believe it to be the case. We'll see in a few hours.

Yeah. But no, that's the thing that I'm really looking forward to. First of all, clarification. Tyrese Halliburton started playing four-on-four games with interns about a month ago. He said that on a mind-a-game podcast with LeBron James. There we go. But he still said that there's going to be some time before he's back to his old self. But this is another thing.

We've talked about the decision. The decision has already been made with Tatum. One thing I want to get Raj's perspective on, though, is what is the best path forward for this team? How do they integrate this person into the fold? And what is the best case scenario for this happening? Injury aside, more just talking about like his role into this team at this given moment. What is the best case scenario for the next month or so before we get into the post? I mean, the best case scenario would be that, you know, he is way closer to the version of himself that he was when he was injured than we expect him to be.

And you just kind of fall back into that 1A, 1B kind of seamless transition that they had been playing with when they were at their peak. You know, worst case scenario would be that he comes back. He's not that version of himself and he's not willing to be a role player. You know, if that is in fact where he is in his recovery and his skill set and ability to do things around the court suggests, you know, that that's the way he needs to fit into this current roster. You know, watching them play. Derek White's obviously taken on a much larger role in terms of having the ball in his hands and playmaking. Peyton Pritchard has as well. And, you know, if Jason Tatum is at a level where clearly everyone understands giving him the ball in those situations is better for us than give it to him.

But if he's not at that, then it becomes whether or not he's willing to play off of them in a way that he's really. that he's really never had to. They played off of him. And only time we'll tell. Like, we'll have to watch and see what he looks like. But I think a lot of it is going to hinge and be predicated on how he looks and how he is going about reintegrating himself into that lineup. Like, I've heard the debate about, you know, like, he's a star. He goes in there and he does this or, you know, he should go in.

And I always take the approach of when you're coming back into a situation like that, feeling your way around that, right? And it's a delicate balance between being true to yourself. And I'm a very, very good player from Jason Tatum. I've had huge success at this level. And being true to yourself, but also acknowledging what's being done in your absence and honoring that in a way that shows everyone else how much you respect them and what they've done in your absence.

And then finding that balance to where we can. kind of work towards maybe it's not tonight or tomorrow night or even a week from now. But as we all start to like, you know, develop this trust again and you start looking better and we understand who you are as a player, but you haven't tried to like force this on us. Two weeks from now, we're looking really good together. That's the other thing. It's a timeline, right? Like, geez, it's a month left, right?

Like, that means you've got to hit on all cylinders with this recovery. It's just really important. Yeah, you got to get it right. You have to get it right. I mean, they're about a game and a half up on New York for the second place in the Eastern Conference. Let me take a look at their schedule really good. Because Dallas is a tough team. They're going to be at Cleveland, at San Antonio, at Oklahoma City.

That's a tough stress to come back, you know, like, and figure yourself out. That's a – because Dallas is a tough team to play, right? Like they're not good necessarily. Are they? I mean, they're going to play hard. I'm now, I don't think the Celtics was going to worry about Dallas. The next three after that for sure. I'm going to be real.

Based on the team that we're going to talk about next, they should be paying attention to teams that they are beneath them, that they feel that are beneath them. And that's a bad comparison and we'll get to it. But okay. Anyways, I would say this, though. It's going to be a tough two weeks.

Can I say this about, can I say this about like? I just made Logan really mad. I know. But they're the Dallas thing. Heart people. The Dallas of it all, while they're not good, I agree with you, Logan. They play really hard. And in a weird way, if this makes sense, as good as the Celtics are, a lot of what they do

is based on playing really, really hard. So like if you come up against someone who's going to match, you're playing heartedness, right? If that's even like whatever. You just can't count those chickens before they're hatched is what I'm saying, right? Because like that's not like a Uber talented, hey, we're just going to beat you roster. That's a, hey, we come in here and outwork you roster. So if you get somebody who's willing to work with you that night, like, who knows?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, and also, according to Take It on, the subject's at the seventh hardest record down a stretch. It's going to be a tough thing. And also coming back from an injury and having to play any type of team is going to be hard. Let's just put a pin on this.

I hope for the best. And I think everyone on this panel hopes for the best with Tatum. Let's say a quick break and let's talk about Raj's favorite team on the other side. Okay, and we are back. We're going to talk about the closest comparison to the Dallas Mavericks the season, the Charlotte Hornets.

That is such an insult. We're going to, we're teed up the horse to phrase them. I'm just, Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. That's an insult. Relax. Relax. Relax.

It was a joke. It was called a callback. Jesus. Anyways, Charlotte is 32 and 31. They have a 16 and 3 records since January 22nd, 22, and 11 record since Christmas. The lineup of Lamello Ball, Brandon Miller, the starting line of, Lamello Ball, Brandon Miller. their con can nipple.

I didn't want to miss up his name. Musa and Miles Bridges. Diabate? Yes, sir. They have a 20 and two record as a starting lineup. Lineup boasts a plus 69 as a plus minus. They were our punchline. We looked at them as a punchline for the last few years.

But as we've looked at them as a punchline, they've actually made some pretty good moves, right? They have a new ownership, a relatively new ownership. Charles Lee was tasked with turning this team around. Didn't look like it last year. It seemed like the same old Hornets. And at the top of this year, they were the punchline of me and Raja, specifically Lomello ball.

But they have all played really well. Lamello was, you and Howard. Fair. I always give Lamello. I've been here defendant Lamello. You are. I tried praising Lamello early in the season when he, You got off to a really nice start and Logan shot me down.

So let me just, let's just for the record. I was looking at history. The last time we discussed him, I was trying to praise him. All right. Yeah. And that was around the time when they were four and 15 to start the, four and 14 to start the year. No, no, no. This was like two, three weeks into the season.

Shut up. Okay. All right. Anyways, the question is, so I got, we watched them against Boston. That's what we referenced in the previous segment. Watching them, they have shooting, they have depth. They have a great young, so it seems.

I'll ask Roger this because, you know, he's been in Charlotte Stan for a while now. What's the ceiling for this team? Former Hornets great, Rajah Bell. No, no, he was not a former. He was not a Hornet's great. He was a Bobcat's Great. Bobcat, Bobcat. I'm sorry, former Bobcat.

Yeah, I got. Yeah, no, they were, I mean, they were, what was the award I gave? Was it my, my league pass team? You did, yes, sir. to watch. And I, the reason why, and you could see it like when they played the Celtics, was mostly offensively. But interestingly enough, like, you know, they're not a great defensive team, but over the last,

like, maybe three games or so, they're one of the better defensive teams in the league. So I think they're trending, like their success and the offense has kind of carried them in a way that is now creeped over to the defensive side of the ball at times. which, which, you know, obviously, you know, it's common sense. If you can get both of those working together, you've got some real opportunity to win games. What I like about them, what's entertaining to me about them is, first of all, I would just say, again, for everything that Lamello doesn't get credit for, he can do things with the basketball that are wildly entertaining.

Like, there's just a level of showmanship to his game. Now, he gets a lot of shit for that, and it hasn't always produced. By the way, and that Boston game. game, Roger, he was so out of pocket in a good way. Did you see the shots he was making on Jaylon Brown and just some of the thing. And then and then like shooting his threes at the crowd. Yes. Yeah. He's a showman. He is a showman. And like, you know, there's some of that to it, right? So that's fun to watch. But like what's really fun to watch for me is that the way they move on the offensive end of the floor, they, they, you wouldn't watch them and necessarily say, man,

they push the hell out of the pace. Like they're flying up and down the court. But once they get into the front court, they play with real pace. The ball is moving. People are moving. They're throwing that thing and they're in more probably Zoom actions. I'd love to see like who runs the most Zoom actions in the NBA. They're really difficult to guard when you have shooters like Concanipple and Lamello

coming off of those things on that handoff. What do you do? You go under, they stop and pop. You chase it. Now they're downhill in the paint. Like they just don't stand. You know, they're isolation opportunities for those guys, for sure, like every NBA team has. But they move a lot.

It's not the warriors of old, but it's a version of that in the way they kind of move and fly around. And then they hit, you know, it's Diabate a lot of times where they'll hit him as the hub. And now they're just high splitting off of him. They're cutting. They're swinging it. And that's just fun for me to watch. For our teams, right? Yeah.

Dude, the gut cuts. Like, there's just so much cool stuff going on in their offense and movement that when you put really skilled players out there that can make shots and, and are playmakers, it becomes fun for someone like me to watch. So, like, that's why they are fun for me to watch. And quite frankly, you know, that's what makes them hard for people to guard at times. When you are methodical with what you do offensively, defensively, I can, rely on that scout that I got this morning from my assistant coach.

Because he told me, when you guys do this, this is what I'm supposed to do to counter that. And my defensive help is going to do this. And so we've got you squared up. But, you know, that's provided you're moving at a pace that, like, my brain can keep up with. When they're flying around unpredictably just throwing the ball to the big, splitting and running off of a zoom, I mean, you've got to get that right every time and in the blink of an eye. and a lot of times people are going to mess it up. And so it becomes really difficult to guard

when you've got guys that make shots the way they do and can create the way they do. I agree with you. I want to, before I get to Howard, I just, I do want to, and I have been a Lamello, you know. A hater. Is Hater the word Roger Howard?

I don't know if haters. A little bit. A realist. A realist about what he's in. I don't mean that. Here's my pride. Look, sorry. No, but this is always my thing with Lamello.

This was always my thing with Lamello because I remember arguing with Howard about it a year ago. And you're not a hater. But what no one really ever was willing to do for Lamello was acknowledge what he could do. All I ever heard about Lamello was what he couldn't do. And all I wanted to say was like, and maybe you didn't do it to the degree, Howard. Like maybe that's unfair. I don't remember verbatim the argument. But like a lot of people fall into like just beating him up for what he couldn't do.

And that was my only pushback on it. Like I'd acknowledge there's some, there's some struggles, right? He also was playing in Charlotte, right? Which is like the ultimate before this new ownership group was not a, you know, it wasn't very successful. No, it wasn't the healthiest. It wasn't the healthiest organization. Let's, we could just leave it. So go ahead.

I didn't even intelligent management, as David Stern once said, of a different franchise in my backyard. Right. It wasn't a lot, right? And then when you have, when you have a player like Lamello, and I'm not even just saying this, I'm not even talking about antics or anything, I'm just talking about sheer talent of one. what he is. You know, I lived in California and watched him kind of blossom into the player that he is, right? Throughout his journey, he's had one of the most, the weirdest journeys and the most confounding journeys a lot to this lead. And I have not seen a coach or an organization that is

really invested in him for, in this type of way, for his whole career. And what I mean by that is he is one of the most talented, pure basketball players I think I've ever seen in this modern era. And I truly believe that. But there wasn't a coach that's saying, hey, you need to do the little things to make you a good basketball players. Watching him against Boston was really a breath of fresh air

to see him doing those backscreens. And then you get to see, you know, him doing the incredible shot making that he can do. And then what I do love about this Charlotte team is that they're doing the little things offensively to get great shots and to do to help the helper and to do all those things that you speak of, Raja. But they're also still throwing these lobs.

They still laughing at your face. They're still doing everything. You know who else did that? Golden State. You know, they tapped in on all of the fundamental type things. And then they had the excitement. And so that leads back to Lamello, which I love the on-court maturity that I have seen from him.

And he said some things before this season about like how much he has worked this offseason and tried to mature and things like that. Now there are some other stuff that are still happening off the floor. But I think on the court, he has really matured in a way that is really a breath of fresh air to see. And then you see that all the way down the line. And you see Brandon Miller who what a poster he put on at Boston, right? And his maturation as a basketball player. And you have three guys in Canypool, Lamello, and Brandon Miller who can get their own shot, which is really hard to find in this NBA, right?

And you only usually have one at most two. And so when I see the ceiling for this team, Howard, I see a team that if they do the right things and continue to do the right things, it's kind of, on one hand, I'm kind of like, this is, you know, shaky ground. But on the other hand, if they continue to do these things, they can't be a player with this, this new Eastern conference that's kind of coming into the fault. Like, I see a team like Detroit, and I'd be scared as hell to play against a team like Charlotte in the first round. I think they're going to push them.

I think so, too, and I think we're actually, we're collectively sleeping on just how good the Hornets are right now because they're being treated as like, oh, this fun little story, they just climbed above 500. They're kind of respectable for the first time in a long time. They've been a really dysfunctional franchise for a long time, all of which is true, but none of which is actually an accurate portrait.

trail of where they are right now. So real quick, they're a game over 500 and 9th in the East. So you go like, eh, okay, cool. They're going to be a playing team. Maybe they make, you know, the seventh or eighth seed. By point differential, which if you ask any of the analytics guys, is the more accurate gauge of what a team's, you know, relative strength is to the rest of the conference, they've got the fifth best point differential in the east. They're only behind the big four, the Celtics, Pistons, Knicks, and Cavs. And then it's the Hornets. So that's point Number one. Point number two, since January 1st, they're 21 and 9, which is incredible on its own, and that's a pretty big sample size. That's tied with the Celtics and Spurs for the most wins

since January 1st. In that time, they are first in offensive rating, fifth in defensive rating, first in net rating at 11.9 per 100 ahead of Boston at 9.3 and Detroit at 8.8. Like, they're not just the ninth best team in the Eastern Conference. They're probably no worse than the fifth best team in the Eastern Conference as we speak. It's just that they're kind of anchored by their early season record. They are playing their asses off. Everything is coming together. That starting five that Logan mentioned has the best, as a five-man group,

has the best net rating of any five-man group in the NBA by a lot, according to cleaning the glass. They've been fantastic. Lamello. Yes, Roger. Logan and I have both been critical of him at times. But my thing was, if you remember, and I think this is an accurate recollection of my own critique of Lamello, no one's ever doubted his talent, his ability or his ability to drive winning if he could rein himself in a little bit.

And the problem, the disconnect between the stats and the showmanship and just like, yeah, awesome to watch, but where are the wins? And part of that was just like discipline, right? and whether it's him maturing, whether it's him having better guys to play off of and cater to in Brandon Miller blossoming and concanipal arriving, whether it's all of it, he is doing that. And so just real quick on the mellow, he's averaging 19 points a game, which would be the lowest since his rookie year. But that's not a knock. That's actually a benefit. He's at 17 field goal attempts a game. That's four fewer than last season. He was averaging 21 a game last season.

It's the lowest since his second year in the NBA. He's taking two fewer threes, four fewer twos. His effective field goal percentage is like 500. It's still not great. Like 50% effective field goal rate is not the most efficient for a high volumeish score. But he has rained himself in. And I think the whole thing was, like, if you could just eliminate a couple of the crazier shots per game, then that's a benefit to your team.

Those are then not wasted possessions. That's a possession that somebody else is doing something more constructive with. And again, maybe that's just a matter of having a better supporting cast that he can trust and play off of. Maybe it's a little bit of Charles Lee, you know, kind of getting him in the right headspace. Maybe it's just Lamello himself, to his credit. Like, it's probably a lot of everything. But there's not a lot, you know, to criticize right now. I mean, plenty of growth to go.

But like, he's been great. That team's been great. and they are way better than their record suggests right now. Yeah, I would absolutely be dreading, pulling them in the first round of the playoffs, like if I were one of those higher seeds. Like now, I just wouldn't. I wouldn't want to have to face what they do offensively. Let me just go back to the mellow thing, Howard, because it's a really good point.

And I think you got to like where I would have went to that. It's a little bit of everything. And I kind of equated to like when young quarterback, come into the NFL. And, you know, some of them don't have success right away. Sometimes it winds up, you know, being a multitude of things, right? They're young and they don't see it the way they should see it yet. They don't necessarily have a coach and the structure, the discipline, the system that they need to streamline their game

and have them be as successful as they need to be in the NFL. And a lot of those franchises they'd get them because they're the number one, two, three, whatever picks in the draft don't have the type of pieces around them in a lot of instances that even if you had the other things in line could accompany that's that quarterback in the way that they would need to then be successful. Right. So it takes all of it kind of coming together. And I kind of see, I kind of see Lamello in that way, right? Like, yeah, there had to be willingness from him. And I'm sure there's more buy in now. But he needed somebody from the top. that was going to make it a priority. And you can't just bark that at someone. You have to get that person to trust you. And I talked about trust. It's weird.

I talked about trust yesterday with ties, the program that my son's in because they had a player that was like, you know, these guys got to respect me, this and that. And I'm like, trust and respect. A lot of people want to bark about it. And the only way you get it is to, it's a reciprocated thing.

Like, you have to give it to get it. And so, like, you could come in there dealing with Lamello as a coach, barking shit at him. And he might not be receptive to that in a way because you didn't earn his trust. And then, you know, you finally got someone in there that could do that. He is matured. And now he has pieces to go with him. And so like, yeah, I think you're right. I think it's a little bit of all of it. And I also want to touch on one more thing about him because I thought it was a really interesting play when you juxtapose it to what I saw last night with one of our favorite topics on here. There was a play where he shot a shot, thought he got fouled, had a real opportunity. The ball

quickly went from the Hornets front court to the Celtics front court, like in the blink of an eye. And an older version of Lamello, like, or a more, a younger version of Lamello, if you will, from a couple years ago may have taken that opportunity to hang out in the back court now and fuck with that ref and complain and just chalk the possession up to, you know, a me, me, me, this, it's more important for me to get my gripe off and not get back. But as it were, he got his ass back. He found the man furthest away from the ball because he was last down. He got into help defense.

The ball swung. He was in a closeout high hand. And I watched that and I juxtaposed it last night to Luca picking up like his 15 tech or some shit like that. And I'm like, that's real maturity and real growth. Like, and I don't mean to make it a Luca conversation. But like, that's maturity that we haven't necessarily seen like from the other one in that way. And so I did want to give him his flowers on that. because while it wasn't a score and it wasn't like a phenomenal play that you would see

reflected in the stats or anything like that, you're not going to see that on any highlight clips. I watched it and I was like, oh, fuck, like this is a dude who's, this isn't about him right now. This is a buy-in. Like, he's grown in that regard. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

I want to bring one more thing up. And this is really a Rajat thing. I want to get his opinion on this. Steve Carr was on 95-7 the game out here in the Bay. and he was asked about, you know, I don't know how you guys feel about this because you guys are not in the bay, but for the last few years,

Steve has gotten criticized for his lack of development of young guys and his staff's lack of development of young guys who was asked about this. This was in the midst of, you know, in the shadow of the trade of comminga in exchange for Persingis. And he was asked about his reputation as a player development. coach and or his staff is a player development staff and their role in the organization. And he says,

well, this is a long quote. So make sure you guys are listening. Well, it's the role of the organization. And I think we finally addressed it over the last four or five years. We felt like there were some improvements we could make and we changed some things organizationally. We brought in a couple of people and put them in charge of player development. And I think we have done a pretty good job of that over the last few years. I think part of the frustration from our fans, probably students from the fact that we have three lottery picks coming at a time when we were winning a championship, and it's just hard to play 19-year-olds on championship teams. The development that comes is going to be a lot different than it would come a team that is in

the lottery, where you just put a guy out there for 35 minutes and let them make his mistakes. I think that's probably where some of the frustration comes on. But you see how I can work too. You see Moses Moody. You see the development over time. You see G. Santos. You see Brandon Presumski is really coming on his own and playing well. But it takes time.

this is the part of the quote that got everybody riled up. I remember when I got to Chicago and we had a couple of drafts and I was in my 10th year and Axeville Jackson what I thought of the guys we drafted and he said well it won't matter in a few years and I said how come and Phil Jackson said grownups win championships and it's true it's true it's really hard to come in as a young player and be expected to have the wealth of knowledge and skill and feel that you have to have to be a championship player I would equate it to just about anything else on earth tell me the profession where a guy has the highest scores at Stanford can go and be a CEO or be a partner in a firm

or something. Life doesn't work that way. And so when I think about any frustrations from our fans, it probably just comes from this idea that young players should get it right away. It just doesn't work that way. Rajabelle, your thoughts. Yeah, I mean, look, there's some truth to that, right? Like, we all sit on here all the time talking about the type of player and the type of seasoning that a player would need, the type of experience that they would need to be, you know, real contributors on a championship level team, right? So, like, is there some truth to that? Yeah.

You guys can speak more to, like, they're, you know, drafting, developing, you know, hits and misses. I'm not locked in with Golden State like that. I would say this, though, about the comminga of it all. Or just before I get to the comminga, there is and has been ample opportunity in my estimation watching Golden State over the last few years. where they weren't squarely in a championship favorite window to give development time in real time to

some of the players. Caminga, and he did, and to some degree with the Pajemskis and so on and so forth. But like, for me, this is about comminga. And maybe that's not fair. but I thought there was opportunity for a player. Pajemski, they're everywhere, bro. I don't mean any disrespect. Like, because, again, it is disrespectful.

So forgive me because they're not everywhere. There are only a few amount of people that get to play in the NBA. But within the NBA, they're everywhere, right? Like, some of those type of players are everywhere. You have one that who knows what the ceiling can be because it's got this rare combination of like size, athleticism and stuff like that. And for an older team, and I've said this ad nauseum, like when you're older, you don't jump high, you don't run fast, you don't have athletic

wings, and you have one that might fit the bill, I just thought it was irresponsible not to give it every opportunity to try to develop. Like, and I'm not there every day. I don't know what that relationship's like. Clearly there was some beef and we're there. Steve Kerr's human. Like, I've seen it before and you will see it again where someone just gets sideways with an employee or a player or something like that and they ain't going to play that motherfucker regardless. Like, and that happens. But, you know, I don't think he was being all the way genuine as it related to that. Was, I'm sure Phil Jackson told him that.

Phil Jackson only wanted grown ass men on his team. Like, given the opportunity to have babies or grown men that can win the championship, give me grown men too. But like, you did have a window of time there, correct me if I'm wrong, that you weren't in championship contention recently, that you could have really been kicking the tires in a way that like would give you a bite at the apple of having a complimentary piece to Steph in the mold of something that you haven't had there. And you didn't really in my estimation from the outside looking in, give it a real, real opportunity. And look, there's more to it than that. I'm acknowledging that. But that's what it looks like to me.

So, like, I hear him, but I still think you fumbled the bag on that. Now, you could tell me, hey, man, we watch him in practice every day. He sucks. And I'll defer to you on that because I'm not there. I don't see that. But, like, just once you've already got it there and it's sitting there and you've got no vehicle to move it and you're not very good anyway, I just thought that was a missed opportunity. I will say, there's a couple of things, though, but.

at least through four games in for Cominga versus what's going on, Golda State with Porzingis, very much looks like you fumble the bag. You know? Like the Comings are averaging 20, but I hear you. He's averaging 20 on 70% shooting

at 55% three-part rate. That was a four-game sample size. But he looks happy. He looks very much in the mix, and he looks great on that Atlanta team who was actually surging, right? He looks like he's going to perhaps get that, team option or maybe get a more long-term deal in Atlanta, right?

The second thing that I would say to you, you brought up something about Porzengis and Kaminga and like just kind of comparing it. I mean, I will just say that that was a tension point for Kaminga. Oh, Pajemski, you mean? Yeah. Pajemski, yeah. Yeah. Seeing Pajemski get to work through his mistakes and then as soon as Kaminga makes a mistake,

no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't like that. Like what? But that was a tension point before he left, definitely, one of them for sure. And I want to talk to Howard through about this because it- Can I say one more thing before you go to Howard though? Because you hit it and I want to acknowledge it. I talk about it all the time. Like the freedom with which you see Jonathan Kaminga playing with physically, emotionally,

and the joy. Spiritually, mentally. Like, I always find. that fascinating with NBA players and the fan who isn't always privy to what that work environment is like for that player and why they might not be looking like they love being at work every day or reaching expectations and how quickly that can switch when you go to somewhere where you feel valued and you feel trusted and you feel like you can be yourself and so what it tells me is like clearly and it could be a two-way street he was at fault and I've

I place fault on both of them, Kamingas Camp and the Warriors, but there was some toxic shit going on there. And they had buddy in a really dark place. So like I'm actually happy for it. I'm happy for them too. I think the other thing, and this is going to lead to my question that I had for,

for Howard, there is a thing, and I know you've seen it, Howard, and I've seen it just being around here. The Warriors, at least this iteration of the Warriors, have a problem.

how should I say this? They have a problem bringing outsiders into the fault, right? The biggest example of that is Kevin Durant, right? They just don't know how to necessarily bring guys that weren't the pillars of the organization into the fold and them having a great experience, right? Kevin Durant didn't have a great experience here. You know, some of the draft picks that we were going to talk about didn't have a great experience there. but more than anything, it's like it's very hard for those, that organization to integrate new pieces into it.

And a lot of that is just like how they, how the friction between a young player going into a championship organization, what Steve has just said with his own words, right? Like, we don't know. That has been, the attitude that Steve had in that quote is the attitude that he has consistently had throughout his time and the organization is consistently had throughout their time. as a member of the Golden State Warriors. If you don't believe me, you can go ask Jordan Bell way back when. Now, Jordan Bell had his own things of how that didn't work out. But ask anybody that is coming into the fold, if they're not a organizational pillar

or they're not, weren't a player when, you know, the team came into championship contention, they aren't loved as much and they don't feel that love as much. The other thing, Howard, and this is when it comes, the conversation that we had yesterday on the phone, the Warriors simply just don't draft well or draft to the needs of their their coaches and don't do the needs. Don't bring in players all the time that their coaches tend to approve of. Where does this, I don't know where this puts Steve and I don't know where this puts where this window into this current Warriors team. I don't think that that window was really, really advantageous for the next few years. I think things are going to look a lot different next season.

And we can talk about the specifics of that in a moment. But I don't know where the Warriors go from here. It's not a question. I just want to go to what are your thoughts in this situation? Like, where are we right now? I'll get to what I want to say, but I want to get you in here. The phrase organizational failure keeps coming into my head, and I'll get to that in a second. But, Rajah, real quick, like, not for nothing.

Jonathan Cominga played 278 games with the Warriors and over 6,000 minutes. Like, the idea that they did not give him enough rain, enough rope, enough leeway, whatever, to evaluate him or get a sense of him or give him a chance to show what he could do. Like, they did, and they just repeatedly decided that's not what they wanted. Now, they may be wrong, but he was there for four plus seasons and played over 6,000 minutes. I think that was the thing, right?

Like, Steve Kerr would be like, I don't trust him. And then it'd be like, you know, put him out there for a little while. Oh, he's going all right. And then like three, four, five games, cool, cool, cool. And then suddenly, nope, another game where I don't trust him, boom. And then he's like benched. And like, I get that. Like, yanking with the players confidence and consistency of minutes and roll and everything is really tough.

I totally get that. And so it's not just the minutes. It's not just the games. I'm not trying to be over-sibank. Yeah, I guess my point was it like, You're right, Howard. What I'm saying was it wasn't necessarily about the minutes and if he played a bunch of minutes and all that.

But you didn't want to do it. The deck was stacked against him from, you didn't. And so then you were always, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. You ain't won him. And so no matter what he did, you know, like adding to that really, like for context, he would, like Steve would get pissed off that Kaminga didn't pass the ball to Steph. I mean, you watch a Warriors game. Kamega always, I mean, not Kaminga, Pazivisovsky always looks off step.

It stays in the game the whole time. That was a lot of contention. But go ahead. Yeah. My dad, Howard. Go ahead. I just want to, like, I agree with you. They get played, but like, come on.

What we really have here, though, is organizational failure. Organizational failure. The comming a trade is indicative of that when they finally offloaded Wiseman. It was an example of that the way that they have or have not been able to find a way to maximize Pajemski or Moody or anyone, all of these things. Like, I said this years ago, and everybody who's been listening to this podcast knows it. I have always been of the mindset that predating me being on this podcast, that when you have Steph Curry or LeBron James or any of those guys,

you were obligated to be all in at all times with that guy. And by extension of that, to Steve Kerr's quote of Phil Jackson, yeah, young guys don't usually win, and they're not usually ready. And if you have a championship caliber team trying to incorporate, like 19 and 20-year-olds on the fly and have them be productive while you're trying to contend for titles, it almost never works that way. So I was always of the belief that they should have traded the pick that became Wiseman long before they ever chose James Wiseman. They should have traded the picks that were moody and Kumiga. Like, trade all of it. Get guys who can help you

right now because that's the mandate when you have Steph Curry. They didn't. They drafted guys, and they made some bad choices, right? It's not just whether or not they developed these guys, whether they pick, it's whether they pick the right guys in the first place, right? We all know the deal, right? Could have had Lamello ball instead of Wiseman. Could have had Franz Wagner instead of, was it Moody or comminger or both? Both probably. Yeah.

Like you had opportunities to draft better players and guys who might have fit your program and that Kerr might have, you know, given more rope to because they had a little bit better talent or feel for the game. Like Kerr is all about, do you, you know, do guys have an intuitive feel for the game, right? do they get off the ball quickly if they don't have the shot, right? Do they keep the offense moving? It's not just about feeding Steph or anything else. It's about do you fit what we try to do, which is play an intuitive style where the ball and players are moving.

And if you don't fit that, then you fall out of Kerr's rotation or you fall out of favor. So organizational failure in that, I think they should have traded those picks or they should have picked better guys. and if you pick guys who don't fit your coach and your superstar, then that's on you as an organization. And then because the owner was really in love with some of those players, Wiseman and Comingham particular, they held on to them too long. So like there's a Steve Kerr piece of this, but it goes way beyond him.

It goes to Mike Dunleby, Jr. now and Bob Myers before, but also chiefly, I think, to Joe Lekob as owner. Like this is an organizational failure all throughout. And that's why they are where they are. they are now. Can I play devil's advocate real quick with the Franz Wagner and whoever else, whatever the other names were? Like, maybe the best thing ever that they don't get drafted there. Yeah. Like, you get drafted there and you don't, and for whatever reason, you don't fit in and you can't get on the court like some of these guys. Like, I'm just saying, who knows? Yeah.

I also think, though, like, you know, Wagner has shown like he's, like he is a star in this league, right? And I think he would have shown that regardless of where he was. I think, and I think it's easy to take this and look at like Wiseman, Cominga, and the Moody of these guys and say, like, well, it's the Warriors for not developing them. Sometimes it's that the player is just not good enough. And if they go off elsewhere and still don't thrive, and we'll see, Cominga's had a few nice games in Atlanta. That's fine.

They've got no stakes whatsoever. They're going nowhere. And he could just like go do his thing. When you have to win and play in a context of a team that's trying to do something more, it's a different challenge. And so let's see what Cummega's career is like in a couple of years. Weisman keeps getting hurt. We'll see.

Yeah, but the exercise, you could reverse engineer that exercise, Howard is all I'm saying, right? Like, Franz Wagner is clearly a better player. But if he doesn't go into a situation where he's allowed to be a better player, and he's always going to be suppressed because you're trying to win games and the ball's got to go to Steph Curry. We have a chicken and any problem, right? That's what I'm saying, right? You just don't know. That was my devil's advocate of it all.

You just really don't know. Yeah. And I mean, I think that speaks to Howard's, you know, point of, like, trading. Because, you know, we talk. I think the podcast on the phone was better than the podcast than what we're talking about now. Logan got a little heated because we were like talking past each other. At one point, Logan just says, man, we're just talking past each other.

We're just talking past each other. We're just making completely different points. I was trying to wash dishes at the time too. And I was trying to take out the trash, you know, shit at the house wasn't great. So I was just trying to figure it out. Never pod before the pod. Never pod before the pod, absolutely. But I think that to Howard's point overall, though,

there's two types of coaches. There's a development coach, and there's the coach that's striving to win titles. The thing that Steve and Phil have in common is that they were trying to win titles, right? Year in and year out. And there's a certain mindset that comes with that. And I think that Camingo was stuck in a rock

in a hard place. The thing that I'm fascinated about, and it's been kind of the elephant in the room all year is the future of Steve. And I It's The more days that go on The more I feel like it's

His days are numbered with that organization I I reported something earlier this year About his um His assistant coaches Basically Moving with the notion that he's not going to be back next year And

If you see him this at I this I reported that and this is now me talking you see him game in and game out, it just looks like a shell of himself. He looks tired. He looks defeated in a lot of ways. And I don't know what's going to happen this summer. I don't think anyone truly knows, but it's not looking as good as it has in recent years, Howard.

That's all I'll say. I just think this is just ageism by you. You don't understand what it's like to be at the age of me and Steve Kerr. Steve's got a couple years on me. Steve's been older than me for my entire. life and he's looked a lot happier than me at times since I've known him. I mean, undoubtedly, the situation and the losing and everything. And like, look, they lost Jimmy Butler.

Let's not forget. They lost Jimmy Butler in January to a season-ending injury. They lost Steph a few weeks ago. Like, the fact that Draymond Green and a bunch of dudes beat all due respect, like Al Horford's an NBA champion. But by the way, Al Horford came in from the outside, is done just fine there and fit and just fine. Andrew Wiggins also too. Some guys have come in since the first run of championships

and I think found their way in Steve's system and in that universe. But like, yeah, like they beat the Rockets last night, but like there's no, there's, it just feels like they're playing out the string and it's felt like that ever since, kind of since Jimmy went down and certainly since Steph's been out

the last few weeks, it feels like there's a bigger cloud over them than there ever has been in this entire run. And I know, I know, I know. People have been saying for the last couple of years, Oh, the dynasty was over after the last championship. Or the run was already over. Why is everybody saying it now? It's already been the case.

Like, Jimmy Butler got there and gave them a jolt, and it looked like maybe they could squeeze something else out from this, and then Steph gets hurt. They lose to the Timberwolves in the playoffs. This season they're looking like, you know, it was up and down, and then boom, Butler's out, and this season's gone. And every season that goes by with Steph at this age and Dremont at this age and Jimmy at that age puts you that much closer to

Point of no return. And maybe they were already there. Who knows? Where it comes to Steve, like, his contract is up after this season. And he keeps, when he talks about the future, and when Steph talks about it, it's always Steph saying me and Draymond and Steve,

like they're in lockstep in terms of their careers and their contracts, but it's literally not true. Steph and Butler and Draymond are all under contract for next season, and Steve is not. And here we are. It's early March, and there's been no news about an extension. And I'm with you, Logan. I was a little bit skeptical. I wasn't sure what to make of it earlier in the season.

I thought, you know what? This happens sometimes, but Steph clearly wants him there. Steve wants to be there. He's been there forever. They'll figure it out. Leikab and Mike Dunleavy Jr., Steve, they'll all figure it out. It'll be fine. I'm not sure I believe that anymore.

And some of the things I've heard, even within the last week and talking to people around the league who are kind of monitoring the situation really closely, I am starting to get the sense that, yeah, this just might be it. And whether that's Steve's decision or whether that's the organization, whether it's mutual. And I don't want to, like, listen, this is not, I'm not reporting intel. don't fucking aggregate this. They're already going to, bro. It's already going to happen. It's on Netflix, dog. You're screwed, Howard.

I get the sense that this is, that this is it. But I could be wrong. I hope I am, because you guys know me. I like the storybook ending where Steve, Steph, and Draymond, and maybe a clay back on a minimum contract, somehow I'll walk off into the sunset together, but, you know, that ain't reality. I would say if I were betting, man, I wouldn't bet on it.

I could be surprised, but I wouldn't. Yeah. There's your aggregation. Aggregate that. Aggregate that. Oh, Netflix, baby. All right. This has been a long pot.

I'm surprised. Raj is still interested, but we have one of those. I just started drifting. I like, right? You know what's funny? You know what's funny? Like, right when Howard was fucking talking, I'd been locked in. I felt the drift.

Dude, my phone started. Look. Yeah. So we got a row of the week, though. We have a reward of the week. Okay, it's Friday. Okay. What's the one of the week?

And then we'll get up out of here. All right. I go first. I want to give it to some of my childhood homies, the rap group out of the Bay Area, One Umbrella, who was based, I think 22nd Jim's in it, All Black, Yee, Zaybang, I'm probably going to forget some. Those are their names? Those are their names.

They're right. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they have a new album out, and they have a single with Larry June that just. dropped and I looked on the Instagram yesterday and they had a video of them on Times Square. I almost shed tears

seeing that out of the bay. That's huge for us. So one umbrella out here doing the damn thing. Bay Area rap is still alive. So shout out to one umbrella. Rewin it a week. No doubt. No doubt.

Go ahead, Howard. You got it. Roger. Howard. No, go Howard. What's your favorite one umbrella song? Yeah. I'm just fucking with you.

Go ahead. I'm not going to do the hopeful press box. I'm going to go look them up, though. I want to hear it. All right, for sure. I'm giving it to Lou Dort. Did you guys see his interview with The Athletic? No, what you say?

Lou Dort just getting dragged for days by the entire universe, including Raja Bell. No. Calling him dirty. Same as Dirty play. So is Dirty play, yeah. Yeah. So our buddy Joel Lorenzi from The Athletic caught up with Lou Dort when the Thunder were in Chicago,

caught him, said, hey, you know, there's been a lot of talk about this. You've seen what the nuggets have said, what Yokic said, what David Adelman said all this. And Lou Dort said, he went over the line. He says, quote, it's a physical game and there's limits to it, and I went over the limit. And then he says, they were right about hearing Yokic's reaction to it being unnecessary. Dort says, quote, that was an unnecessary move by me, something I shouldn't have done. He did also say, I don't think I'm dirty, and he defended himself on that note. But, like, I thought that was great of Lou Dort.

Like, he could have just, like, dug in. Certainly the Thunder as an organization had dug in, doubled and tripled down on, like, oh, no, he didn't do anything wrong. Props to Dort for, like, recognizing that this was problem, that this was over the line. And look, he's a great defender and a really aggressive player. And most of the time, that's to his benefit and his team's benefit. Sometimes things spill over. But I think it's great that he's willing to basically just kind of say it at this point. So props to Lou Dort for that.

I mean, I don't think he couldn't hide from that, dude. Like, that was. He doesn't have to admit it, though. Could have dug in. Yeah. Guys do. Yeah, you don't look like a. Okay.

Shout out to Joel, too. Shout out to Joe. Yeah. Shout out to Joel, Lindsay. He's the real, real one of the week for asking him the question. somehow four or five days after the fact, he hadn't been asked the question, I guess. My one, I don't have one that I'm really, like, passionate about

or anything that jumps off this. I'm going to give it to LeBron James, like last night in the game against Denver where, like, he received a little shot from the Joker and his ribs. No, that one didn't rise to the level that we would talk about as being maybe too physical to play. No, it wasn't anyway. It was.

I was just joking. He was just, LeBron went down in a heap and did his normal thing. But he did pass, he did pass Kareem, I think, on like the all-time field goal made, like, list. Like, is he number one in the NBA now? Yeah, I think it's like, yes, he's number one in NBA history and field goals made. That's a hell of an accomplishment. So, real one of the week to LeBron James for that. Hope your ribs are okay, Doug.

I think you heard his elbow. Did he hurt his elbow? Oh, he heard his elbow. Oh, okay. All right, right. This morning, they, like, banged up his elbow and questionable for, I think, for the night. All right.

All right, then. Well, hope your elbow and your ribs are all right. Sir. We went an hour and 18 minutes. Let's get the hell out of here. Maybe this is a two-parter. That was another edition of Real One of the week. Or another edition of Real Ones.

If you guys are still here, we thank you guys for joining us through this journey of a podcast. I'll see you guys on Tuesday. Make sure you guys tap into the mailbag. Real Ones, Mailbag at gmail.com. One's mailback at gmail.com. Real ones mail back at gmail.com. We will see you guys next week. All the shits.

Bye.