The Ringer NBA Show - Jayson Tatum’s MVP-Caliber Season, the New Orleans Pelicans’ Coming of Age, and the Golden State Warriors’ Panic Button | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

Logan and Raja are back to discuss Jayson Tatum’s MVP-caliber season as well as the Celtics’ impressive comeback win against the Lakers (2:25). Along the way, they talk about how this season is a coming-of-age moment for the New Orleans Pelicans and the three-headed monster at the forefront of their team (21:22). Later, they debate whether it’s time to push the panic button on the Warriors’ season (38:14). Finally, the guys close out with their Real Ones of the Week (53:18). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Ariel Hawani. And I'm Chuck Mindenhall. And I'm Pizie Carroll and together we are three-pack. Join us on the brand-new Spotify Live app immediately after all of the biggest fights in combat sports. And also during the way-ins because that's when the real drama happens. So what are you waiting for? Follow the Ringwere M.M.A. show right now on our exclusive Spotify podcast feed. And come join the best community in M.A.

Peace. We're out of here. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here. Raja Bell there. Roger. I'm back. How you're back? How are you doing, bud? Are you doing okay, man?

Yeah, bro, I'm holding it down. I'm good, man. You know, but it's just tis the season. Tis the season. Tis the flu season, guys. Everybody makes sure you guys are just you and your loved ones are all getting safe out there. It's locked in. Roger hit us with a text on Monday, on the Monday.

Roger, I want to give you guys context. All my real ones, all our real ones. I want to give you guys contact. Roger doesn't text in the group chat unless it's like pertinent information, right? Or unless he has a question or he is. is sending a tweet for his son so we can retweet it and support our little Dita, support our little partner. Right.

But on Monday, he sent a text before the show like, I'm not going to be able to make it. And he's on the East Coast. So we all wake up on the West Coast like, oh, well, Rod's not going to be here. Are you all right? Are you good? No, we're good, man. We're back. We had a, we had a, no, it wasn't, I had the flu.

I mean, listen, I guess I fall into the category of people that get laughed at when they say, you know, I think I had COVID before COVID was the thing. Because I had the flu about three and a half years ago. I mean, the January that COVID came out, right? Like the January that the shutdown happened, that kicked my ass for like a week and a half. I mean, chills, bone aches, you name it. I had never felt the flu like that. So in retrospect, I always say, like, I think I had COVID. But this flu wasn't like that. So we're straight. We're straight.

Okay. Well, I'm basically going to talk to you about everything I wanted to talk to you about on Monday. And I think there's some pertinent stuff going on. So first off, let's talk about Jason Tatum, who we've talked about at length on this podcast. I saw him over the weekend. I was planning on talking to you about like, you know, man, I saw him against the voice. I'm really disappointed at how we went out, you know, on Saturday and when the Celtics lost to the Warriors, and he did not have a good game by any stretch. And then, you know, it carried on against the clippers where the Celtics just got beaten pretty bad.

And then on Tuesday, they play against the Lakers. And, you know, Lakers Celtics is always a thing, right? As you guys know on this program, it is one of those rivalries, you know, the cliche is it doesn't. doesn't matter about the record. Throw that out of the window. This is Lakers Celtics. And it had every bit of emotion that a Lakers Celtics game has.

And Lakers are going back and forth. You know, the Celtics take a big league. Lakers come back. Looks like they're going to win the game. And then Jason Tatum just turned into the best player on the floor, Raja.

And is he your MVP right now? It's basically, I'm saying all this to ask this question to you and then we'll go from there. Is he my MVP? Yes. but Janice is a very close second and I would even

because you're making me make a choice I would go Jason Tatum right now but Janice because of what he's had to do without his sidekick so far this year I think he's making a really strong case but Jason Tatum is amazing and you know there's we talk about this all the time

when teams are very very close built foundationally very strong are able to get to Eastern or Western Conference finals or maybe put up a strong showing in the semifinals, but we're talking about missing that piece that gets them over the hump. Maybe they got to the finals

a la the heat a few years back and just couldn't get over the hump in the finals. What we often talk about is that piece, that guy. Yeah. That guy that will just transcend X's and O's, he will thwart any game plan that you have

put in place to stop him because he is just a bucket and he can get him however he wants them however he needs him and that's what jason taitam is he's just a bucket you can't guard that and there are guys like that i've talked about this a lot ever since you know i i came into the league and became known as more of a defender no one ever stops anyone so like that whole Kobe stopper or for whoever was the first person to say Kobe stopper like that's just a stupid thing or an MJ stopper that's a stupid it's stupid you don't stop that them because they get whatever shot they want. You just hope that you make them work hard enough

and that you've done enough of a body of work over the course of a game to affect that field goal percentage in a way that allows your team to win the game. Jason Tatum is like that. You ain't stopping him, bro. You're not stopping him from getting to that shot that he wants to shoot. It's interesting, right?

Because you go through the stage of, when you see a young player like Jason Tatum and you see a guy that has all the potential in the world, right? You see spurts against, you know, LeBron, his rookie year when he dunks over. By the way, he tried to dunk over LeBron again and it almost happened again, which was incredible. Jason Tatum got that dog in him. But you see the natural evolution.

And I think, you know, he obviously took a step getting his team to the finals, right? But I think he's taken it to another level. I think he's found another gear, which is something that, like, I was, admittedly, I, you know, when you see him out over the summer and stuff, I admittedly had questions. I just wanted him to be in the gym the whole, whole summer. not to say that he was not, because clearly he was, he was transforming himself into this MVP caliber player. But like just the optics, and that's just, and we talked about this in past episodes, that's just a, that's just the side of the times, right? And then he comes out on just blitzing, and I think this is just a bigger thing for the Celtics in general, that they are on a full revenge tour at this point, and it's very clear, right? I don't know where this is going to go.

And the big question when I saw them on Saturday was, all. Are they a team that is going? Because I remember when Draymond was asked prior to the Celtics game, just the mindset that goes into after you lose a title and you either go one or two ways. You crash or burn or you just say a full fuck you mode. And we're going to just go at it again. And we're going to show you that those are the great teams that do that. We're going to show you that we have learned. We have gotten to a different place.

I think the Celtics are almost there. I think that they had a couple, like, they had the curious loss against the Warriors. I thought that they should have had more of a statement win. But overall, they are in that mode of like, yo, we're on a revenge tour and we're about to kick your ass. You know, that is to be expected, I think, from a team that from an age standpoint is where that team is,

you know, relatively young, guys that are still hungry, both for financial stability in some cases and for hierarchy within the NBA for championships. Like there are varied reasons that people would be hungry on that team. And they seem to be a very well-connected, like emotionally type of a team. So I would expect that out of them. And it's been pretty fun to watch them come out of the gates. I always, just in the back of my mind, hope, and I'm not saying that this is going to be the case,

but I hope that when teams come out firing like that and they're on this quest from the beginning of the season, that they can sustain it. Because you've seen teams sometimes in that situation come out the next year and say, all right, here's how we got to approach it. We're going to let the league know. We're winning it this year.

And we're going to be locked in from the beginning. And then so they have this phenomenal regular season. And it's almost like once you've won the regular season, there's just an exhale as you go into those. playoffs because not the job's done because you know you haven't won the championship but it's organic right like this that's a long season to be playing at your peak so i just for the for the sake of the celtics because i really do pull for them i hope that they're not this doesn't become too hard to sustain you know as we start to get into the dog days of the season yeah i think about

i said this when we had uh we had how we back on on monday just this team reminds me a lot of the 0-809 Lakers where they are a team that, you know, lost the finals, ironically, to Boston. And then they go on this full, full, full, like, revenge tour. I think they win like 65 games. But to your point, Roger, when you look at their performance in the playoffs, it was really fucking hard that year. I think they played the jazz to open that playoff run. And I think they beat them in five, but then they go and play at Houston, win in seven,

and then have to go play Denver and win in six. it's fucking hard to sustain that. And people don't realize like, yeah, you can go out and win 65 games, but just how much energy you're exerting doing that. I think we learned about that with the Sons a couple years ago when they won their 60 plus games. And then they were just tired going in the last season's playoffs. You really want to sustain that.

I do like the Celtics team, not just because of the young guys, but I was in their locker room just after the Warriors. game. And this seems like, you know, when we talk about like the Memphis Grizzlies, and we talk about, you know, some teams, you know, that, that, that, that are at the precipice of greatness and are at the top, but they don't have as balanced of a locker room as you want from a contender. I think the, the Celtics locker room, along with, I think Milwaukee's another locker room like this, just one of the more balanced locker rooms in the league, you get what I'm saying, just a balance of guys that have been there before

that are battle tested, and then you have the mid-tier guys who are, you know, that can get you buckets, that can do it. Similar to how like the Warriors were last year with just the mid-tire guys. And then you have your young guys

that are just ballers, and they're not even 30 yet. I really like the makeup of this roster, Roger. I would agree with you, Logan. I think, you know, we talk about it a lot on here, but it's very important to have the different, the different levels of experience,

to have the different points in your career, in terms of what your goals are at that point. It's very important to have that diversity in your locker room. And they balance each other out in a way where, you know, old guys sometimes, it's hard to get up for the fourth in six nights or whatever that looks like now in the NBA. Young guys are usually ready to go, you know? Sometimes young guys can be a little too fired up in a locker room, game five. You know, we need this one to stay alive.

And older vets there to tell you, hey, young fellow, just slow down, like breathe. Yeah. Let's keep our eyes on a prize here. Let's just go out and treat it business as usual. it'll all sort itself out in the end. Let's not go out all half-cocked. So it's important to have those checks and balances in place and having a roster with good continuity and different levels of expertise and age. All of those things are great to have.

And I agree with you. I think the Celtics will be fine. I always hope for a team like the Celtics. You know, one thing they got going for them is Robert Williams has been out. You know, so when you're bringing pieces back like that, it can infuse a new level of life into your team. it almost gives you, it's not a fresh start

because everyone else has played those games, but you're getting a different look of a team now, right? So it's not like we played with that same look for, you know, 60 games. Like we were one team. And now it almost gives you kind of like a reset. All right, now let's put Rob back in the mix. And we figure out how to play again. Maybe we're not the same exact team.

Maybe we're a better version of ourselves. So, you know, those things can be healthy for a team. Even hitting kind of a lull, even though, you know, no fan wants to see that. But hitting a lull, a little rough patch, a skid, somewhere, you know, I don't know, put a game number on it in the 40s, late 30s, 50s, somewhere in there. You know, those things are healthy too because they get you back to, hey, well, you know, are there some things that we really got to dial in on?

There's some things that we need to fine tune. Like, let's go back to the drawn board and tighten the nuts and bolts in these areas. If we want a championship, it's going to be, it's going to be, you know, integral for us to get all these things locked in before we go to the playoffs. So, you know, it'll be interesting to watch the Celtics and how that plays out for them this year. It was interesting that you said that, like, just like to have loss in a season and how that can help.

I was talking, I was in a Baltimore a couple weeks ago. And I was talking to Marcus Peters, the corner for the Ravens. And he was talking about how, like, a lot of their, you know, the Ravens, I don't know their record at this point, but it's, they're leading the division, but they still had some curious losses over the, over the season. And he was talking about just like how much that's going to help them because they have been battle tested and they have been doing those things that they learn more when it when there are those early season losses as opposed to like, and this is my words, not his, where as opposed to say like the Philadelphia Eagles who have been great and have all the admiration Jaylen Hertz is being an MVP candidate and they're probably going to be expected to make a Super Bowl run. It's a lot of expectations on you. Whereas you go with the. Ravens, a team that is going through a lot, but if they can turn around, they have the talent to get there as well, you got to, it is interesting to, you know, think about that. That leads into my next question for you, where what's a perfect win total for a team like the Celtics, right?

Is it 65, 67, or is it about 56, 58 if you're, if you wanted a perfect win total for them in terms of just how the season is going? That's a tough question. A different number for each team. but I think around 60, give or take, three or four games is fine. You know, I'd more give than the take probably. Like, you know, if you're 60 to 63, 64, if you're 58, 57, it's somewhere in that range, I think it's good. You've had some tough losses in there, I'm sure.

There's probably been a few game losing streaks scattered in there. Like, you know, you've had some nice win streaks. I think in that, you know, you're running away with, 70 games. I hate that. I hate that. Not enough adversity. I mean, clearly you're an awesome team, but you know, you want to be battle tested. I know it's a corny old, cliche thing, but you really do. You want to know how that team's going to react in the face of being down three with 35 seconds to go and the ball. And this is what we're doing. Here's how this is going to work. Here's what we're wrong. We're going to get this bucket. We're coming down. We're coming down. And this is how you want those,

you know, six, seven, eight times over the course. of a season, sprinkled in with other type of end game situations and experiences that will just you'll put in your memory bank so that when it pops up in the playoffs, which it eventually will for most teams, you know that you can handle yourself in that situation. Yeah. Back to the Celtics. I want to talk about Jalen Brown really quickly and just let's talk through his role on this team, right? Because in a lot of ways, I always make the comparison. And it seems like this. It's like the Celtics are a tribe called quest, man, right? like where or or or or outcast if you want to say like a duo right where like I see and let's just make let's just let's just go with tribe for this one like when I see to sell dix obviously Jason Tatum is the Q-tip of the bunch right of the duo right but then like you remember you listen to tribe and you hear a fife dog and you're like damn bro like he's the coldest one like I don't care what you say like I hear a verse he's the coldest one I feel like there's a lot of five dog vibes at a at a at a jalen br

Brown, whereas he's going to show you on wax that he's the coldest. But like, you might not think, you might not think about it on paper. But like, every time you watch him play, you're like, oh, shit, there's Jalen Brown. Like, what is his role in all of this? And how can he continue to be successful on this team? You know, Jalen Brown's played his role to a T. I mean, he is, he is 1B, you know, to Jason Tatum's 1A. And the reason, the reason I say that is, I mean, Jalen Brown can get, you know, is a

phenomenal score hyper-athletic has continued to grow his game, is able to do things with the ball out there and pick and roll and on the perimeter to create shots in a way that continues to get better year-in and year out, kind of a la Jason Tatum. So he's evolving. I think Jason Tatum just has a deeper bag of offensive arsenal that if you were to say, all right, bro, there's no action here. Here's the ball.

And here's a really high-quality defender. and you got five seconds to create a shot go. I think Jason Tatum has more in his bag and has a better ability to create in those situations than Jalen Brown. So that's not to throw any shade because I believe Jason Tatum to be one of the top probably seven players in the NBA to be able to do that.

I mean, honestly, over the last week, he's been the best player in the league, and it's not even been hyperbole. He's been the best player of league. There's a lot that goes into that, right? But I mean, I'm talking about just in this space of create a buck, create yourself a shot in five seconds one-on-one, go. Do you know what I mean?

Like I think that he is definitely in the top five to seven players. And Jalen Brown, I think, needs a little bit more to be able to be able to score. But when you're playing with the Jason Tatum who commands so much attention, it puts you in this spot where you don't necessarily have to do that all the time. And you don't have to do it to the degree that you would have to do it if you were the focal point of that offense. So it's a perfect fit for Jalen Brown. And to some degree, Jalen Brown is a perfect fit for Jason Tatum because it's not a one-man show.

Yeah. It's not. And so while I'm going to kind of tweak my defense probably in most instances to deal with Jason Tatum, I cannot in any way take that player that's on Jalen Brown and ask him to sacrifice a little bit for the sake of stopping Jason Tatum. So it gives Jason Tatum some freedom to get into these bags that I'm talking about. So I appreciate Jalen Brown probably from my standpoint and have maybe a softer spot for him than Jason Tatum just because I see more of the way I played in Jalen Brown. Now hear me, I'm not saying that I was anywhere near Jalen Brown.

But what I'm saying is when he came into the league, he didn't have all of that. And he continues to add pieces to his bag. It's almost like Jimmy Butler-esque, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, Jason Tatum, you could see it immediately. right. Jalen Brown was one of those dudes where you were trying to figure out. Is he going to be a 3-and-D guy? Is he going to be just running, jumping athlete? Like, what is he going to look like? And he just continues to put pieces together and go back to the drawing board to the point where he's now a really complete offensive player, not to mention just a problem defensively. I love Jalen Brown's game. And I think that the thing with Jalen is, it's always just it's meat potatoes, bro. Like it's just, it's just, you know, meat potatoes game. Like I'm about to I'm going to play strong defense on you.

And then when you look up, I have 34 points. Like it's one of those things where I think the Lakers game was a huge example of that. I forget what Brown had. Jason Tatum got all the limelight as he should because he played his ass off and made all the big shots. But if you look back at that game, you're like, damn, Jalen Brown. I had that experience time and time again watching the Celtics in the finals last year. Just like, yeah, this is this is probably. this is probably Tatum's team, but damn, Jalen Brown is getting it.

He's getting buckets. He's keeping this team in the game right now. And does it, does it quite often. Quite often. Quite often. And I want to be clear because sometimes when you're on these pods, people will take this snippet of what you say and try to turn it into something. I believe Jalen Brown could be a number one on a team. He definitely has that dog in that mindset.

It could be a number one on a team. I just think that right now, Jason Tatum, because. he's just a couple steps ahead of him in terms of overall development of this offensive arsenal, right? That he's probably the better option to be the number one on a team that's going to win a championship because you can literally just give him the ball

and say, hey, man, go get these buckets, get him. And Jalen Brown is quickly approaching that, though, right? If he continues to develop. So, you know, I'm a big fan of Jalen Browns. I think the Celtics can go a long way. Like, I was really impressed with what I saw like just from just seeing him over the weekend. to spend us some time with them.

I think that they're going to be really good. Another team, we've been impressed by over the course of the season, has been the New Orleans Felic. Right. And they're a team that have been atop the Western Conference. Now, I do want to push back, and I do want to have this conversation with you. I think they're a really, really great team.

I think they're going to be a, they're coming of age. This is their coming of age season. They are doing some things that would suggest that they're a young team. And one of those big things is the, And I feel like the old curmudgeon. And I don't want to, I don't want to feel like this. But like just even like the, the, I feel like you're welcoming me into the club like old watch dudes because I'm about talking about Zion West and the dunk and stuff.

And I thought the dunk was great. I actually like a large part of me about 85, 90% was like, hell yeah. Hell yeah, Zion. But it does suggest a young team that would do something like that. What were you? reactions to the dunk at the end of that game against your beloved Phoenix Suns. And what does I say about the team overall? And what has been your impressions of the Pelicans thus far? The dunk itself. Phenomenal dunk itself. Yeah. Yeah, it's a phenomenal dunk. But I understood

where a young Zion who didn't get to play last year and sees Phoenix as this rival in the Western Conference and this hump that we got to get over, I could see where in his brain split second, he's like, yo, let me put an exclamation point on this. Let me get it. Boom. Like, I mean, in a vacuum, I don't really have a problem with it. I don't care. And you're at home too. The fucking game.

The game is over. You know, I got to dunk. Like, shit, I might have it in my Nike contract where I got to score X amount of points. Like, I ain't trying to be two points short of that. Let me go get this. Yeah, and real quick, right? I get it. I get it.

Having said that, it is pretty immature. I'm not all up in arms about it. Like, I'm not going to sit here. But it's an immature. thing to do because there is an unwritten code in the NBA. There's a level of respect that you have for your fellow competitors, the team that you're playing against, and ultimately your, your brother's in this fraternity where you're not trying to rub it in, right? Like no one's trying to embarrass anybody. So, you know, I understood, I don't know what Chris Paul said. I don't know what happened with Alvarado

and, you know, that team is a young team. And the sons are a little bit further along their especially to Chris Paul, who's a grizzled vet. And it would probably went along the lines of something like, hey, man, you don't do that shit, man. That's Bush League. And then someone in New Orleans caught some feelings about it. But it was Bush League. It was a little immature.

But ultimately, man, like, if I'm the sons, man, I just walk off the court, bro. I don't give a shit. Like, we lost. I'm worried about that for. Yeah. Now, what do you, like, with the Pelicans overall, though, right, where they're this young team,

what are you telling this team when, when they're, you know, on the ascent, right? now because I do believe that this is the they're ahead of schedule they're a year ahead of schedule right and that's great that's always great we talk about this continually over this pod they're one of those teams um brandon negram needs to come back and be fully formed and we'll see what we'll see what happens with the pails but where do you think that they are right now as an organization are they are they is this sustainable i guess is the big question because we're only in December you know this they could be a six seat by the time you know

the regular season ends. Like, where are they right now? They're exactly where David Griffin and Aaron Nelson and their staff told me they were going to be, man, when I went to one of their preseason games, they told me. And it took me a minute to watch the game and realize that, yeah, man, there's a lot of stuff out there that has good length, good range, good skill level. They play hard as shit. They play unselfish.

They're not afraid. And so I would say that I would agree with you in that they're probably a year ahead of schedule in terms of being the number one team in the West and being a bona fide NBA championship threat, except here they are. And possibly their best offensive player isn't participating right now, giving a lot of other people real good, size. minutes and experience that are going to prove dividends down the line. And so I would just say that if I were in that Western Conference,

that would be a team I do not want to play. I don't. I don't. They have shot creators. They have one of the most unique offensive talents in the league in Zion. And when you're trying to game plan for Zion, a bucket like Brandon Ingram, a bucket like CJ McCollum, all these shooters that,

that with this length, I mean, that'd be a very hard defensive game plan to put in place. And I got a very good staff, really, really good coaching staff. Oh, no, no, no, no. Willie Green and company are locked in. And so they're dangerous. So I do think it's sustainable. Look, I'm not going to sit here and tell you they're my favorite to win the NBA championship. Like, I don't know that I believe that in my heart of hearts, right?

And for that matter, I don't know that I don't know they're my favorite to necessarily win the West. But I think they're going to be right there and I wouldn't be surprised if they did. And I think you're going to have to see the Pels for a minute. Like, that's not, I don't think this is, you want to see the Pelicans. Whoever, whoever faces the Pelicans, no matter what seat it is, it's going to be six, seven games. Like, you know, like, even if they lose, it's going to be six, seven games. Because, bro, I watched them play. They haven't come through the Bay yet.

But, like, I've watched them play. And, like, if you're guarding Zion Williamson, bro, you're going to be, you're going to feel that shit. That's just going to hurt, you know? Like, you're going to have to bring your lunch pill when you're, play to Pelicans, bro, because they are just one of those teams that have so many weapons. And then you bring in Zion who can just wear on you, dog. Like he, and the thing is with Zion, you know, I'm hoping that he stays healthy. Like, he is a guy that is just going to wear you down over the course of a game.

Like, he's just going to give you that shoulder. He's going to put right in your chest, go for the dunk. And he could still shoot the three. He can do all these things. Where to defense down? Then you got Brandon Ingram also coming through, right? And then you got C.J. McCollum. And remember, this is the team that took the Phoenix Suns,

the best team in the league last year, to six games. And they didn't have, without Zion. And they played hard as fuck. They were so good. So amongst all of the good things that they have cooking, right? Like we could talk about their defensive numbers and how well they defend the three-point line and how versatile and rangy they are with all this switchability.

And, you know, we can get into all of that. They have three dudes, three. Because Zion's in that mix where you could give them the ball. and they can get you a bucket. They do it in different ways. It looks different, right? Zion doesn't look like CJ's and CJs isn't exactly like Branden's,

but B.I and C.J. and and Zion, you can give them the ball and expect a bucket. You know what I'm saying? Like, not like, hey, man, 50, 50, oh shit. People say like, well, duh. People would be like, well, duh. Of course, they're NBA players.

But you don't understand, like, how hard it is to find bucket getters in this NBA, right? because the NBA talent is probably as good as it's ever been, right? And like, you also have guys that are specialty guys. You have guys that are doing all these things. But there's not, there's like probably like 10 or 15 guys in the whole league that you give them the ball and you can expect a bucket.

Maybe less than that. I don't know. Like, but it's really hard to find that. They're hard to find them on. There are a lot of guys in the NBA. Then in a summer league or in pickup basketball, you could give them the ball and expect to get a bucket. Not sitting here telling you there aren't.

If I came to your local gym right now, like you can give me the ball and I'm going to get you a bucket. I don't fucking play in the NBA anymore, right? But what I'm talking about is at the highest level in the playoffs. When you win the popcorn is in the air and the lights are brighter and we need this bucket, like we've got to have this bucket. Who can get the bucket? And those three have proven that they can get a bucket.

Right now, Zion maybe not to the degree in those moments that that CJ and B. I have, but CJ.MBI have showed you on playoff stage over and over and over. Hey, listen, bro, I can do this. I'm going to get you this bucket. And that is a trump card. It's why the Warriors went out and got KD. They didn't fucking, they didn't, they were straight. You know what they didn't have?

A bucket getter. Outside of the scope of the offense. The offense isn't going to produce it. We're not going to have all this movement. Steph is as good as there is on the planet, right? But you can make a case, and I'm going to make the case right now. Like, Steph back then wasn't as good as he is now. And that's just a fact.

I know that he was an MVP at that point. But there was a reason why they got KD. And the reason why they got KD is, yo, man, when the offense is stagnant, which it was, and you saw it against Cleveland, where when it gets stagging and fucked up and all, and everyone's just being muddy, give the fucking ball to Kevin Duran.

He's going to give us a bucket. I'm going to get right to this elbow. Yep. I'm going to put my right forearm in the defender's chest. I'm going to throw this left arm out high in the sky over to my left. Put that shit on my hand. And everybody just hold. tight. Yep. And I'm going to get this bucket. That's what I'm talking about. And not,

there are not a whole lot of dudes in the NBA that can do that at the highest level, giving their teams a chance to win a championship. It's interesting though, like with the Pelicans, though, because it has nothing to do with like how good they are, is the reason why I don't think this is their year. I think they just got to go through growing pains right now. Like, what are they going to do when people just, like, whatever defense you want to say, whatever team they play? Oh, we're just going to take Zion off the floor. We're going to fucking like, we're going to make sure he doesn't beat us, right?

For a seven. I know, but you get what I'm saying, though, right? Like when a team just loads up on a person for seven games, right? I don't know what Western Conference team can do that right now, though. That's the problem, right? Like, I don't know. We'll see. Maybe the Nuggets can.

Maybe there's another team out there that can possibly do that. But that's my fear right now. My argument against that would be, and I'm trying to think right now, about a team that has three dudes. Think about it. Three dudes. So fuck, take him out. Who cares?

We got Brandon Ingram and CJ McCone. Take him out. Take him out. We're good. I ain't tripping. I mean, think, like you were talking about, and I know this is going to sound crazy, but when you were talking about Brooklyn with a big three,

right, you had three dudes that could get a bucket. Now, maybe not on the same scale, like B.I. Not KD. yet. CJ, not Kyrie, for sure, and Zion, not James Hardin, but three dudes that can all get buckets in a

carry you to a win type of way, you could take one of them away. I don't know that there's another team out there. I'm just trying to think, so forgive me. Maybe the Clippers. Clippers, Clippers would be a good, so who are we talking? We're talking, Paul George, Kauai.

And John Wall, maybe, Reggie? Like, maybe Reggie. Maybe Reggie. But I'm still putting New Orleans in, like, I'm taking New Orleans with that. Yeah, let's just go teams. Well, like, I mean, nuggets, yokeets, shit. No. Yeah.

Nope. Keep going. But that's what I'm saying. Like, they are unique position like that. Warriors, I don't think so. Warriors don't have three dudes that can just get you a bucket. Maybe you have a good game from them, but like, nah. Even Boston, you got that two-headed monster.

They are vicious. Where are you going after that? I mean, that's why they got Malcolm Brogden. And then Malcolm Brogden. So I can put them in their brain. in that breath, right? Malcolm Brogden. The bucks, like, could give them trouble, though, obviously. They definitely could.

But see, even Malcolm Brogden isn't C.J. McCullum offensively. No, they got him as, like, a really, really, really, really good offensive player alongside, like, two elite. So I think they're kind of, like, in a very rare, in a very rare air of NBA team that has enough weaponry offensively, the shooting to supplement it, and they'll lock you down. So they, hmm. Also, like, we talk about Brandon Ingram as, like, an offensive player. He's one of the best offenders when he locks it. He has the length to do it.

And, like, there was one time, I forgot who they were playing. I think there were, when he was a Laker, they were playing a boss in Celtics. And he just, like, it was one, like, when he was a young guy and he was just flying all around. He was getting those ridiculous blocks. Like, he's just such a long, like, guy. They could, he's just, he, everybody knows on this podcast that how I feel about Brennan. Like, everybody knows. But I, I, I love this Pelicans team.

And, like, man, I'm just so excited for the future of this league. because, like, just in the Western Conference, like the Warriors are, they probably got a few more years left tops. And then, like, you got the Nuggets, man. You got, you got Luca down in Dallas. You got Memphis, right? As these teams start to mature and become, like, the bona fide big dogs in this conference,

it's going to be so much fun to watch in the next couple of years, dude. Yeah, the league's in a great place with young talent and young teams on the verge of taking those next steps into championship, contention. So it's definitely going to be fun to watch. And we've talked about this, um, this conversation we've had multiple times about which, which of these young stars, you know, is, is it going to be a bird magic type of sharing of the mantle? Like, they put MJ in the mix for a while and then MJ separated himself from them. Like, is this going to be a by committee type of face of the league thing or one of these young

bucks going to put a stranglehold on it and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, kind of it's his league for whites. It's just going to be fascinated to watch. We'll see. I saw Janus against the Warriors who we're going to talk about next segment. And Janus don't seem like he's giving up that mantle, bro. Like, he's like, relax. I don't know if you watch the game on Tuesday, but did you see when he went

frucking from side to side, from baseline to baseline and dunked on Kavanaugh-Luny with a left hand on national television? That was just nasty. He's just. He's unfair. It's fucking ridiculous. Say a quick break. We're going to talk about the Warriors.

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Make every moment more with Fandual, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. 21 plus in select states, first online real money wager only. Refund issued as a non-withdrawable free bet that expires in 14 days, restrictions to apply. See terms at sportsbook.Fanduel.com. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit Fanduel.com slash RG. That's in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia. 1-800 next step or text next step to 533442 in Arizona. 1-888-789-77-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. 1-800-9 with it in Indiana and 1-800-5-2-2-4-7-7.

or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1877770. Stop in Louisiana. Visit www.m.w.m.mdgambling.help.org in Maryland 18778 Hope, NY, or text Hope, NY, 467-369. That's in New York, 1,800, 522-4700 in Wyoming, or visit www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. Yeah. All right. We want to talk about Golden State really quick before we get out of here. And at the moment, I think the 14 and 15, Steph Curry is hurt. At this point, as we're recording, he's getting an MRI done on his shoulder. I saw it a play. It doesn't look great. It's one of those weird plays where you know when you, you're always taught to put your hand in to go strip a ball and things like that. But that could always, that could also fuck up your arms when you do that, right? Where you just like just try to like slapping at the ball. That's exactly what happened with Steph. So it remains to be seen what's going to happen.

It's his non-shooting shoulder, so we'll see what happens. But it just speaks to an overall point with the Warriors, man. And I watch them quite a few times this over the week. And we talked about this to start the season. Just bad vibes, man. Nothing suggests at this point right now. And you talk to anybody within the Warriors, right? It's, one, it's tough right now.

And two, they're leaning on the fact that at the top of the next year, that they can go on a little bit of a run. You know, they always say, you know, that if you take anybody in the Warriors, we're not afraid of this team. We're not afraid about anybody in the Western Conference. We just need to get our shit together. And it's increasingly figuring,

looking like they're not getting their shit together, Raj. I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm not fully off the Warriors right now, but I just don't see it. I don't think that I'm not fully ready to declare that they're not winning the title, but it's getting really close right now, just reading the T leaves and just watching this team, team doesn't look like it has that magic.

I would bet that if you brought a case of beer, shut the door, got Steve Kerr and a couple of his favorite assistants in the room, off the record, vibes are high. And you ask them straight up, yo, Steve, bro, what's it look like this year? He'd tell you, this isn't, this, we're not winning a championship this year. I'd almost guarantee you that. Now, Steve Kerr's an ultimate competitor. as are staff, Clay, Drayman, Jordan Poole, the rest of them. You can't say that.

You will do everything you can to convince yourself that there's still an opportunity. And there is. I mean, you don't really have to convince yourself by, you're only 30 games in, 29 games in roughly. But coaches usually have a feel for like, okay, no, this is, you know, we're headed in the right direction. We're just not playing great right now. Or, you know, X, Y, and Z is happening.

And so that's not translating into wins, but we'll be fine once it stops happening. When you start hearing Steve come out and say we got this hangover and things like that, those are emotional things. And I don't, it's hard, it's really hard. I've touched on this before. And I'm not blaming anything. So I'm not going back to that. But when you're dealing with emotional lows, not like physical, hey, look, dude, we're not in these gaps.

Like we're not rotating from the weak side. Like we need you to, you know, get on this box out a little better. We're not running our lanes. Look at all these points we're leaving on the table because we're not out in transition. We're always playing against a set defense. We don't want to do that. Those are things that can be fixed. Those are things that are identifiable right there on the film.

We can get in there. We can knock that out with some film session. We could go out. We can tweak it. And if they get better, the numbers will change. And mathematically, when they change, we win the game. Point differential, right? Emotional hangovers and those type of words are scary when you're dealing with the team,

especially a team that's had some stuff transpire right before the season started. it's harder. Now you got to get, you know, that's not as easy as watching the film and figuring out, hey, we need to play with a little bit more pace or, hey, look, we're standing. It's not, it's not identifiable in that way. And so that's what worries me about them. And I would bet you dollars to donuts that if you asked Steve Kerr behind closed doors, if you had to bet, Steve, you think you guys would make a run at it.

He'd probably say, no. Yeah, I think the thing the difference about this season and last season is last season, the Warriors had a North Star. They had the redemption tour, you know, this was the first time out of the pandemic. They won that title without Kevin, you know, they also seized the moment and be like, we probably not going to have this moment next year. This is probably not. This is our time to win a title.

And they had a desperation that they just don't have this season. And I think it speaks more of just how hard it is to repeat and how hard it is to sustain, sustains like energy enough that much, right? Because, like, it's, what you're saying is totally correct. And you're, you know, you haven't, you're far away. So, like, I've been able to see exactly your words just in just being around this team. They don't have, like, that oomph as much as they did last season. And it's kind of understandable, right?

But there's just so many questions. Last year, you could point to, like, yeah, man, they went 18 and 2. They're winning the right games. They're beating the Utah. They're beating at Denver when they need to. Hell, they're beating the suns. They're getting a couple games off of the suns while they're not playing well, right? They're still getting those type of games.

They're not getting those games right now. And they're not winning on the road either. Like you talk about, I think the biggest example is like that Milwaukee game. You just get a big win over the Celtics. You want to carry that momentum into a run. You want to make a statement game against Milwaukee Bucks. So also show like, hey, man, we were going through. some shit during the beginning of the season on the road.

Now we're going to go and win. Then you lose that game, doubt starts to seep in, and then, like, injuries happen, bro. Like, if that Steph injury happens while the Warriors are, like, number one in the West, it's not as polarizing as it is right now.

Like, we're trying to figure out, okay, how long is it going to take for Steph to come back, right? And if Steph in the lineup means that we have a chance, But right now, like you're looking at, all right, man, Jordan Poole, this is your team now.

We'll see what happens. But like this is time for them to step up. And I don't know if it's, I think it might be just too much to ask right now. Well, it's a lot to ask. Anytime a team, and I don't know from experience, but I've got friends that have played on teams that have made runs into finals and deep into the playoffs year after year after year, you've heard it.

You've heard it. So I'm not breaking any news here. That is not only physically exhaust. but it is emotionally taxing and not just for the players for the families um for the for the for the organization for the people that work there there is a toll that that takes on you that after a while starts to mount in a way that it's harder to shake every morning you know and when you're just fractionally off you know it changes the dynamics of what's going on in that building what's going on in that locker room what's going on on the court and so to what degree the problem is that i don't know

but it has to be accounted for. I'll just, I'll say, I'll say this. Steph getting hurt could be a very good thing for Golden State right now. Steph's been playing great. Oh, yes, he's averaging 30 a game. I mean, he's doing even last night. I mean, and it's not only a step playing great offensively, but Steph was everywhere in that game last night, man.

Like, he is defending multiple people on one possession, just flying around the court. I was kind of, I think I remarked to one of my sons who was sitting there with me. I was like, man, look at this dude, man. Look how he's like, he's everywhere right now. You know, playing his heart out. And so I don't know how sustainable that was, number one. So maybe he's shutting him down, like, I don't know,

hopefully it's like a week, two week type of thing. Getting some legs back under him could be good. But bigger picture, maybe it provides the opportunity for a Jordan pool to really hit his offensive stride. Or maybe it gives someone there some opportunity to step up, not unlike the Anthony Davis situation with the Lakers, Logan. Yeah.

You know, like maybe we realized that without Steph we're this different version of ourselves and this is how we're going to have to play to try to keep the ship aflo. Don't let us win a game and get a little confidence with that because now people are like, oh, shit, all right, I can do this and they start playing at a higher level so that when Steph comes back, he's got more support.

What? So I referenced Jordan Poole and we've talked about him, at length over the last, you know, like less a year. What, what does he need to do? This seems like a perfect moment for him where, yo, man, we gave you this big deal. You showed that you can play without, you showed that you can play in Steph's absence at spurts last year.

But this is, we gave you this new deal. We talked about you to future. Where, what do you need to see from him over the next, you know, however longness is, this period is where he's the starting guard. He's in the starting lineup. This is his show. What do you want to see from him? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, Logan. I'm honestly, man, sometimes you just got to say you don't know. I don't know what that looks like from a X and O. Here's what I want you

to do with the ball. Here are the type of shots that I want you to be shooting. I don't know what that looks like. So forgive me for not having a great answer for that. But what I do know is he needs to be more consistent. I need that field goal percentage to elevate. Maybe he gets some different quality shots without step in there. Maybe he gets some of those shots that are more open, freeing him up to knock more of them down. There's a slight slippage in his field goal percentages this year. He needs to be more consistent shooting the ball,

scoring the ball. Let's get to the free throw line a little bit more, even though I know ideally that's not exactly how he plays. But with the ball in your hand more and more opportunity for you to take the lion's share of the shots, maybe we can get there to supplement that offense a little bit. But I often talk about this feel. Like, you know, I can't quantify exactly what it is.

It's a look in the eye. I want to see ownership. I want to see, I want to see you taking the bull by the horns and saying, all right, Steph's not here. I'm not little bro anymore. You know, I talked to my son, Dia about this all the time, man. And it's, forgive me, but this is what I have to kind of draw comparisons to, right? Like, Dia is on a team.

They play for a state championship on Friday. Dia has been on a varsity team since he was in eighth grade, with five star players, right? So Jordan Poole would be DIA in this analogy. And these five star players that are going to Ohio State and all of these places would be the Steph Currys and the Dremonts, right? And so when you're young and you're on that team with them, you're kind of little bro.

You know, like they're looking out for you. They're the stars. They're doing what they do. But very quickly that dynamic changes. And now they're looking at you, albeit still younger than them, and you were little bro a couple years ago, well, now you're up to bat. Now you're up to bat.

And so when those dudes look at you, your interaction with them. And when you're on the field with them, they can't see little bro in your eyes. Yeah. You know, and Jordan Poole did that last year. Don't get me wrong. I'm like Jordan Poole wasn't playing little bro to anybody. But he's got to take it a further step. Like Dia has to take it a further step.

I got this shit. Yo, here's how this is going to work. Yo, Draymond, bring it in. Hey, no, bring it in. Come here. I need to holl at you. Hey, get a little pat-bav in you, bro. Hey, let me hollet you real quick.

Hey, let's huddle. Yeah, bring it in. Bring it in. Bring it in. Let me tell you what I'm looking at here. Hey, this is what I'm seeing is happening. Here's what I think we need to do. You know, let's keep it moving. Command the ship, man. That's the best way I can put it. It took me a while to get to that. You got to take that, take that ship and steer that shit and let everybody know you're capable of steering it until Steph gets back. And I think that's one thing that like next step that Jordan hasn't taken yet. And I'll be curious to see what he does going forward. But he hasn't been a guy this season that's taken ownership of what he's done. yet like he he was supposed to be the leader of the second unit he didn't take ownership of it in the way that you that you and i would like to see to the point where they had to insert raymond into the second unit to help supplement that right and bring a extra ball handler in like now it like you said it has to to be that and that goes to an interesting question for this summer for the warriors right because like let's be real if they win a title they're probably bringing this team back that's probably what's going to happen little tweaks here and there but you don't blow it up

you win a title clearly because we have this roster now. But if they, like right now, they're playing at a pace of like an eighth seed. And we see there. We talked to Howard Beck about the parody in the league and how this could all switch. We'll see what happens. But say they go into a six seed, they don't do a great showing in the playoffs.

They lose, say, in the first or second round. Are you blowing this up and trying to retool around Steph? What are you doing? How are we? How do you go forward as a front office right now? Is this require a major shakeup if this doesn't go all to plan? Require is a word that I wouldn't use. I don't know that I would require.

Like two years off of a championship, I don't know that your feet are to the fire to do anything necessarily. We could use if we wanted to, if it was in our nature to do so, the excuse that, hey, we just had this hangover, you know, but I do think that those dudes are smart enough there in Golden State

to kind of see that the window is closing on this roster. The window is closing just a little bit on some of the pieces in this roster. They're still very good. And I would still, you know, not ever, like not count them out. But if you were to not show well the rest of the year, stumble into the playoffs or miss it, I think there are some pieces that I would, that I would look at moving. Who would you move? What's the first person you move?

Come on, Logan. I don't know. Are we going to pot or we go pod, Rosanna? We go pot or go pot? I mean, I would definitely explore Clay and Draymond, what that looks like. I would definitely get into that. I don't know what I would get for either one of them. And I guess depending on what the offers were

and what I could get would dictate what I did there, but I would not be afraid to explore those two things at all. The only way you can do that is if, and they have shown strides of this, but you got to make sure that your young guys are fucking killing. Like, Cominga still has to continue to grow. Kaminga's been doing his thing over the last week. I don't know if you saw that.

He had a Raja Bell approved play in Utah. I know it was overshadowed by the fact that, like, that Utah won that game. But like down the stretch of a minute. Oh, I saw that. Did you see it where he blocked, bro? Or Kaminga just like playing really solid defense's block? That was, that was like he's making more plays like that now.

But like he has to continue to like elevate and to like, no, bro, like make it painfully obvious that he's the one. You know, if those young players aren't giving you any indication that they're going to be able to carry their weight on a team, then that changes the dynamic. Right. But like, if they are progressing in the way that you would hope that they progress and they're developing, and, and you just have fallen short of all expectations, and we're talking about rolling it back, forgive me for not knowing Steph's age or the year that he's in. But, you know, I do think at some point that has to happen before you're sitting there with all of that in your lap and it can't win anymore. We'll see what happens, man. I think the biggest thing is we got to get more clarity on this, the Steph Curry injury. That's all we got for this week's Thursday episode of Real Ones for you guys. Wait, what am I doing? I'm tripping. We got one more segment. It's Thursday Real Ones. What the fuck am I talking about? We got a little segment called Real One of the Week where we point out a person, organization or just, you know, just an overall entity that won the week. You know what? I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Grant Wall, rest in peace, man. One of the greatest soccer writers of our generation, one of the greatest ever passed away at the

World Cup unexpectedly at a hard condition. So I'm going to go on him in my real one of the week, man. Such a tough news to get. And so I'm going to go with, man, RIP to you. We'll lose your real one of the week, Rock. Yeah, that's a tough one, good real one of the week. I think I'll keep it, I'll keep it consistent with you on the theme of soccer. And I want to go with Lionel Messi and Argentina for the game that he put out there,

getting them back to the World Cup final. more than likely one of his last World Cups or his last World Cup where he's really, really a viable type of entity like that. I mean, you know, I make a case for killing Mbapap and Dembele. And I love watching France, dude. France is the shit. But I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with Lino Messi as my real one of the week. I'm going to go.

You know what? I'm going to give another one. I'm going to give one in Namar, man. That shit was tough. I watched Brazil a little bit, dog. And they're just so good. And it was just so tough to see him go out like that, bro. I'm going to go with Namar.

Yeah, man, who's one in the final? Who you got, who you got, Argentina? No, I'm going with France, man. I mean, Argentina is a great story. I'm happy from Messi, but them boys from France. They look like they got the turbo boost on and the other people with the other controller have theirs off. I just imagine Boo Boo Boo out here at the, at the, at the World Cup final with the, with the, with the scarf. He's just walking along the sideline, just being the legend that he is, just walking, just walking, just.

like with a glass of wine on the sideline. I just imagine that happening. Yeah, I got to get it. I got to get up with boo. I got to touch base with boo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For real, for real, for real. Well, that's been another edition of Thursday, Real Ones. We will see you guys next week. We are going, we have two shows for you next week,

Mondays and Thursdays and we're going to a little bit of a holiday hiatus. All right. Roger got some eggnog to drink. Eggnog flowing. Gang, gang. We've got two episodes for you next week. Also, on Monday, we are going to be are announcing our release. Okay? We are going to have our first edition of release where we give

out awards for the best and brightest of 2022. We're bringing Jemmy on for our first edition of our release. We're going to give out some prizes and stuff. Get your Wi-Fi fix before we do that. I thought it was your Wi-Fi. I was really ready to sit on YouTube. All right. I'll give a Wi-Fi fix for that. We'll see you guys on Monday. Talk soon. Hala.