The Ringer NBA Show - J.B. Bickerstaff on the NBA Strike and Racial Justice | The Mismatch

Episode Date: August 27, 2020

Verno and KOC are joined by Cleveland Cavaliers head coach J.B. Bickerstaff to discuss the NBA players’ strike and how professional sports can lead the pursuit of racial justice for Black Americans. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Guest: J.B. Bickerstaff Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does always is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer.com. And we have a very special episode today, given the circumstances of what has gone on in the NBA over the course of the last 24 hours. We have a lot to parse through. And joining us today is the head coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Also the greatest interim head coach in the history of basketball. he is now three for three with the Houston Rockets, the Memphis Grizzlies, and now the Cleveland Cavaliers,

interim-turned head coach, J.B. Bickerstaff. Thanks for coming on with us, man. I appreciate that. I guess that's an honor to say them the greatest interim coaches of all times. But I appreciate you having me, man. Looking forward to the conversation. So what were you thinking last night as the Milwaukee Bucks don't take the floor

and it becomes a reality that there's not going to be a playoff game. And then we see the way it plays out through the evening. We saw your tweets. A couple of them went viral. By the way, J.B. Bickerstaff on Twitter now. Love that. But you really had some poignant words to say. And so just take me through your day and experiencing that as somebody in the NBA.

Well, you know, they did a good job of keeping their thoughts to themselves. and it was really a surprise. You know, normally something like that is going to get out, you know, but they did a great job of keeping it to themselves, organizing it, and making it a powerful statement. You know, I can't speak enough about the power of their voices and what it means to communities and people all over the world and all over our country for sure.

So, you know, it's a powerful statement. And that's what people don't, you know, some people don't want to give credit where credit is due. You know, they did not know the outcome of what was going to happen. You know, they didn't know what their sacrifice could possibly lead to as far as repercussions from the league or from TV, ESPN, fans, whatever it may be been, but they still had the courage to do it. And that says a lot.

It says how important it is to them and how important it should be to all of us. what do you think how do you think you would have handled it because to hear it coaches were still getting ready for that game players really kind of did this on their own in the locker room and it's within an hour of game time and so I'm sure you can attempt to relate to the coaches and kind of what was going on if you put yourself in that position how do you think it would have played out because I can only imagine the stress of getting ready for a playoff game is something already and then you walk in and your players said, we're not playing tonight?

Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is you show support. You know, this isn't something that's popped up out of the blue. I'm sure that there have been, you know, a ton of conversations with Bud and his guys about the circumstances. He's got some very powerful guys, and you saw what George Hill and Janice had to say and how it's impacted them and affected them in an extremely difficult way. So I'm sure they've had some conversations. But in that moment, you show support. You know, you ask questions. You know, you help guide or whatever the plan may be.

But you're there as a resource and a tool because, you know, again, you're not getting in the way of that moment. It's too powerful a moment. It means too much at this time in our society with what's going on. So you're there as a resource and a shoulder to lean on if they need it. it seems to me that my understanding from talking to players and coaches and execs the last day is that it is clear that the bubble is a success in terms of quality of play in terms of health and safety, but a lot of people fail that it's been a failure on the league's part in terms of capitalizing of the fact that everybody's there.

At least 22 teams started there now 13 remaining. And it's been a failure to creatively find ways to take advantage of this platform. I mean, one exec said to me yesterday that Jalen Brown tweets out that he wants to leave to go protests. And the feeling is that he should be able to make more of an impact being from the bubble in utilizing that platform. And players seem to be frustrated with the fact that they can't creatively use that platform right now. And it seems to me like everything that happened yesterday is just the players taking that into their own hands to accelerate this. And I think that's what the players do, right? I think when all these things happen and, you know, the players lead.

And I think that's what's the most fantastic part of all this is, you know, we are looking for voices in our society to push us forward. No, you know, human being has more influence or larger platforms than our NBA players. So we expect them and we're depending on them to lead us. They're leading us where our so-called leaders have failed us. they're trying to pull us all together and it's for the right reasons you know what I mean?

This isn't a selfish cause this isn't a divisive cause this is a cause for equality and humanity that everybody should be able to get on board with and we need their voices and their platform and we'll follow suit. As a team that wasn't there at that bubble

you have a different set of challenges with keeping up with your guys during this time. There is some, you know, just team-wise luxury of all being in an isolated place and you don't have to, you know, the test have been coming back negative, et cetera, et cetera. And you have to stay in constant contact with all your players who now haven't played basketball for a long time. If you can just kind of take us through your conversations with your players and kind of

how they feel as a group of guys that's outside of this bubble, yet obviously, want to care about the message that is getting out as a collective from the NBA and the players? Yeah, I mean, it's been tough, to be honest with you. You know, March 11th was a long time ago. And then obviously, you know, they shut down our practice facility soon after that. And everybody went kind of their own separate ways. But as a staff, we've tried to be as creative as we possibly can. I can't tell you how many text messages, group text messages, Zoom,

calls, you name it, and we've tried to do it. It's extremely important. We had some of the veterans here, some of the older guys to Brad Dordy, Jim Jones, Campy Russell. You know, we had them on a call to talk to our guys about their story and their history. We've done small groups. We've done, you know, team, you know, things. We've talked, had the discussions about voting. A lot about educating our guys and giving them an opportunity to express themselves too because, you know, these guys are hurting. These guys

are afraid. I know people, you know, and it shouldn't bother me, but, you know, I know people say, you know, why these guys, why are they impacted? But, you know, there's a duality that they live, right? They live a life when they have their jerseys

on and then they live a life when their jerseys come off. And you can't escape that. So we need to make sure that we were there for our guys to support them and give them what they need and give them an opportunity to just talk. You know, we had guys, you know, who wanted to do something. We had guys who asked what they can do and how they can help. You know, obviously, you know, we've got white players and black players whose experiences and circumstances are completely different.

But, you know, they want to help and they care about one another. And then, you know, they want to show support for the group that's in the bubble. And, you know, the bubble from the conversations that I'm having with people is a very isolating place. You know, the stuff that Paul George was talking about is real and it's not just happening with him. You think about all that's going on in the world and then you're just being pulled away from your family and trying to deal with all those emotions. You know, there's only so much FaceTime and you can do, you know, and throw these things and a playoff series on top of all that. and imagine what's going on in guys' minds. So their sacrifice deserves our respect,

and we should applaud their sacrifice because this is difficult. You know, it's difficult for them, and they've done it phenomenally. You know, the basketball has been great, the competitiveness has been great. And, you know, even you think about Chris Paul and LeBron James after their wins, Donovan Mitchell, you know,

it was immediately about what's going on in Kenosha. It wasn't, you know, great game. You know, it was about a larger issue. So they need our support. And we should all follow their lead. So, J.B., one of the things that you mentioned was guys coming to you and wanting to be a part of something, you know, wanting to help change things. And I think you probably have a super interesting perspective because I'm sure that in this case, as in many cases, over your time in the NBA, that, you know, you have talked to your father a great deal about this.

You have a very interesting circumstance where, though you are a young African-American coach, you have grown up in this. Your dad's been a part of this for like 50 years. He's been in front offices. He's been on the sidelines and everything else. And he went through all manner of things in a totally different NBA,

where people were not the biggest celebrities. And in fact, not celebrities really at all. in terms of, I mean, the games weren't even on TV, you know, at that time. And I wonder in your conversations with him as that like kind of historical reference that he has, what does he say to you about this and then kind of how you use that to impart it to the guys that you're dealing with now? Well, I think it gives you a complete historical guideline.

And I tell people this, you know, my dad was born into segregation. right? So it wasn't that long ago that, you know, the, you know, the Jim Crow, the lynchings, you know, lynch mobs, all those things were happening. So he witnessed those things, right? And the understanding and how he grew up with those things in the back of his mind, he grew up in a coal mining town in Kentucky, you know, during some deep racial divides. So, you know, his perspective on things is he's seen, you know, some awful things. He's seen some beautiful things of people coming together, you know, living through the civil rights era, people coming together, impacting change and growing to where we are now. You know, he has frustration, I think, like all of us, that we're still dealing with the same issues that he was dealing with and that my mom was dealing with, you know, so many years ago.

and that it's coming up. It keeps happening. It keeps coming up. You know, he's proud of the guys in their message and their means, by the way they're going about their business to impact change. He genuinely believes, like we all do, like they are on the side of right. And as long as they're on the side of right and equality, you know, whatever comes with it, you know, they'll deal with it. And that's where, you know, it gives him great pride to sit back and watch and support and cheer these guys on as they push for their message.

Do you feel the pressure to have the right answers when someone from your team calls and says, what can I do? It's a hard thing, right? It's a lot of responsibility because in the absence of everybody as a collective saying, here's what we need to focus on, here's what we need to do. You have a lot of different people saying, hey, all right, we all understand, here's what we want. How do we get there? And there's a responsibility that comes along. I'm sure when guys call you and say, what can we do? What are you typically telling them?

It depends, honestly, on the person and what they're comfortable doing. You know, some people are willing to take on larger roles and have a louder voice. You know, some people, that's not their wheelhouse. But both ends can, you know, help create change. if you are as simple as how you interact with your family, right, how you listen to the comments of your friends, you know, what's your response when someone says an off-the-cuff remark?

You know, that's a small thing, right? But if you're there enough and you're doing it enough, people know that it's important. Some guys want a larger voice, right? So they can go out and get involved in the community. One of the things that I've been trying to help guys with as best I can is, you know, living, right? So partner with the people who do this for a living because the most important

thing that you can be through this whole process is educated. And there are people who have been fighting this fight for a long time who know the ends and outs, know the rules of the of the fight, so to speak, and get with those people and help them. Because a lot of times those people don't have the voice, right? You know, they're doing great things in our communities and nobody hears about it. But if you have a million followers and you say, hey, I'm working with so-and-so, now more people would join on board and help out. So I think the most important thing for all of us is to get educated through these times. Understand why we're here.

Educate yourself on how we can move forward as well. The education aspect is critically important. Yesterday, when the Bucks initially did opt to not play, I tweeted out the story that Sterling Brown wrote for the players. Tribune about his running with the Milwaukee Police Department when he had a knee on his neck when he was punched for parking incorrectly. And I was amazed by the amount of people who responded saying, I had no idea that this even happened to him. So, you know, there are a lot of people who say like, you know, this making a statement doesn't necessarily lead to action, but awareness can lead to action. And so it is an important step for the players to raise that awareness and to educate, as you said, in terms of taking that step towards.

towards actual sustainable actions that lead to change. Yeah, no, the awareness is key because, again, if it's not happening to you or someone you know, you know, it's not happening, right? In our mind, if you can't see it or you don't feel the impact of it, you know, you go about your business, you know, day to day, like nothing's happening. I believe that most people are good people inately. I genuinely do. I believe that some people are naive to what's really going on and the reasons why these things are occurring.

So people giving that voice, you know, opens eyes. And I've had conversations with people, you know, who didn't know it was that bad, but want to do more and want to help now that they are aware of what's going on. So awareness and education is the key. And that's how you fix it. And the other thing is acknowledging that it's happening, right? I think a lot of times we try to just brush it under the rug and we try to move on. But if we don't acknowledge what's going on, we'll never get to the root of it and we'll never solve the issue. Obviously, you know, you are dealing on a local level in a city that has a lot of professional sports teams.

And I saw the Adam Schaefter tweet this morning about a group of coaches there. You, Terry Francona, Kevin Stefansky, who's now the head coach with the Cleveland Browns, getting together and and putting actionable plans together within the city of Cleveland. If you can, just kind of tell us what's going on with that? I mean, it's a great thing. It's a lot of power and a lot of resources that the Cavaliers, the Browns, and the Indians have. You know, it started with a conversation, actually, with myself and Kevin Stefanski. He and I got close, obviously, you know, Ed Stefansky.

So Ed, you know, kind of put us into it. touch and we had conversations and Kevin was awesome. You know, he wanted to know, you know, what we should do. It wasn't about, you know, just talking. He wanted to do something. So he and I got to talk in, had a conversation with Andrew Barry and Kobe Altman on the all four of us on a face-time call. That conversation grew to, you know, to reaching out to the Indians and seeing if they wanted to be a part of it. And of course, you know, they do. I don't know if you guys know Terry Francona at all, but he's an awesome dude. I mean, he's an unbelievable human being. And so it kind of grew from there. You know, everybody had a common agenda of wanting to do,

you know, what's best for the city of Cleveland and Ohio as a whole. And, you know, just thinking about the impact, the reach, you know, the followers, you know, true, true growth and change can be built with that much power. And it's about, you know, the conversation we've had is about sustainability, right? These organizations aren't going anywhere. The Browns will be here. The Indians will be here. The Cavaliers will be here. So hopefully long after, you know, the six of us who've been involved in these conversations and put these plans in place are gone, the Browns, the Indians, and the Cavaliers will continue to do these things and have these programs that continue to help people in Northeast Ohio and all over Ohio, to be honest.

So what are you guys doing? So the first initiative is we're working on a voting piece. So we have turned our arena into a registration site and a polling site. So the first thing that we're going to do is we're working to get people out to register to vote. The second thing that we're working on is we are working on the relationship between communities and law enforcement. You know, we're in the works, personally myself and Kevin Clayton, who's our vice president

of diversity and inclusion, we have a call with the three, two police chiefs, Chief Williams of Cleveland, Chief Mason, and the director of the federal registration here in Cleveland. And we have a phone call every Friday about what we can do to move forward and how we help our community. One of our goals right now that we're working on is providing after-school activities for kids during COVID, obviously socially distancing and doing it in a safe way, but through the school systems, they've cut off all after-school programs. So now a lot of these kids have absolutely nowhere to go after school, whether their parents are at work, what have you. So we're trying to work on putting something together with the local rec centers to give

them opportunities and places to go. And then our last piece of it is just focusing on education through all that. So we're, you know, we're in the works putting all this stuff together, but there's a plan in place and we've got actionable steps right in front of us. Regarding your place also as a father, you've got young kids. I'm interested just to hear, have you talked to your kids about everything that's going on and kind of what they're seeing and why they didn't play. I mean, you know, I've got a 10-year-old son. And when the Bucks game didn't come on yesterday, it was a, I mean, now we're having a

conversation about why they're not playing. And actually, it happened with my wife. And I was explaining to her what all was going on. And he was at the kitchen table, and he said, I saw the video. And I said, what? And he's 10. His best friend is Evan. Evan's African-American.

And I said, how did you see it? He said, Evan sent it to me. And I was like 10-year-olds, 10-year-olds. And so obviously, I am so terrified. With all of this, it's been, like, impossible to keep the innocence of children, right? If they care about sports, it's now even bleeding over to that. You have young children and their dad's involved in all of this stuff going on. Tell me as a father, like the conversations you've been having.

Very difficult conversations because they're at an age where they can see. but they don't always understand why. So the conversation that you wish you could shield them from, you can't shield them anymore, right? You know, we watch the news in our house. And, you know, they asked the questions, you know, why, you know, why is this happening? Why did, you know, they shoot them in the back?

You know, these are things that, you know, seven, eight, nine-year-olds, you shouldn't have to have that discussion with them. But you do now. And it's a hard conversation trying to be as honest as you can. You know, some nights I want to shield them. Other nights, I want to educate them as much as I possibly can because, you know, my kids are outspoken. And, you know, I want them to be saying the right things and understanding why, you know,

we're having these conversations. You know, we took them to a rally here out where we live so they could see it and participate and understand what was going on and the reasoning behind it. So, you know, telling a 7, 8, 9-year-old about police brutality, about systemic racism, like those are difficult conversations. But, you know, at this point, they need to know it because it's everywhere. You can't hide it anymore. I mean, you know, I had to grab my kid's phone, you know,

because there's a video that people are putting on TikToks. You know what I mean? It's on YouTube. It's wherever. And you can't hide them from it anymore because it's too accessible. So you got to have the hard conversations and explaining it to them. And it's, I mean, it sucks, to be honest with you, man. You know what I mean?

Like, they shouldn't have to do that. They shouldn't have to have these conversations. But it's where we are now. And thankfully, I genuinely believe this as well. They'll get us through this, right? Their generation will be better for it than ours is and those that have come before us. Like, I have faith in the young people. Like, the rally we went to was led by high school kids, you know, one of the suburbs out here in Ohio.

And it's just like they get it. You know what I mean? And the, you know, the march was everybody. You know what I mean? It wasn't just, you know, black people. It was everybody. And they were all together. They were all united.

And they get it. And I hope we're not too old and stubborn to get it ourselves and can change the way we think and the way we act sometimes. Chris and I have talked a lot about in recent weeks about his conversations with his son. And I don't have kids. I just turn 30, no children. But I do hope, like, if I someday do have kids, that these challenges that you two, and many others go through as parents with these conversations with what's happening in the world, that even though we might not get immediate returns on everything that's happening now,

with all the good that's happening now, that the investment that's being made now and the sacrifices that are being made now can lead to reward, you know, maybe it's a decade from now, decades from now. But I feel that sense of optimism, too, the trusts in the youth today that with everything going on, that they will grow up to be the change, the agents of change that we do need in this world. Yeah, I agree. And our voices matter, right? The words that we say matter.

And they're listening. You know, like my kids, and I've caught myself in anger, I may have said some things, and I've heard my kids repeat those things, right? And I had to catch myself, and I tell my kids, you know, if you say that and you mean that, you're just as bad as the worst of the worst. Right. Anytime you categorize everyone or all, right, and you put everyone in a group or everyone in a bucket, you know, that's wrong. And that's what they're doing to you, right? You're a brown kid. So you are whatever the worst of the worst could possibly be, right? If that's what you say. So I've had to have those conversations with my kids and, you know, and be, you know, hold myself accountable, which I think is extremely important that we all have to because your kids are listening and the young people are listening. And the young people are listening. and they're watching. Even when you think they're not, they're watching.

So they're picking up all the cues. But like you said, I do believe they'll do better than we have. J.B., as you watch all of this play out over the course of the last 24 hours, and it does appear that they are going to play basketball again. There's going to be a meeting with players and owners later this afternoon, and they're going to try to come up with real actionable plans that they want to get the owners involved with. What do you hope comes of all of this in terms of the NBA playing basketball, finishing out these playoffs, while also simultaneously trying to affect change within the country? I think you said it.

You know what I mean? Like we love the game of basketball, right? We love what the game of basketball does. Sports brings everyone together, right? If you take a picture of an arena when people hit a big shot or, you know, when the game is won, it's people from all walks of life joined in one common thing. And that's what sports has always been. Sports has also been a place where, you know, you go back to Muhammad Ali,

where athletes can voice their opinion and they can carry weight. And they can lead in a direction that's positive. So, you know, it's the combination of. of those things. Like, you know, I love watching the playoffs. I love watching these dudes compete and get after one another. I love watching the quest for a championship. But as they've shown, the priorities are lives, right? The priorities are, you know, how are we handling the racial issues in our society? How are we handling police interactions? And to me, that should be a that guys are understanding and putting things into perspective,

human life is more important than the ball going in the hole. And they said that. And they put that out there. And we should applaud them for that. And them having their priorities in order. And we should get our priorities in order. You know, for those of us who believe that, you know, these guys should just shut up and play basketball.

Like, we need to get our priorities in order and understanding that they are human beings first. and humanity comes over all this stuff, whether it's sport or politics. You know, I felt like last night, you know, when you were saying what you were saying about how you live and die with these teams and these players and you cheer for them. And, you know, don't, don't ditch them now because you don't like that they're not playing. I felt like your tweet that went so viral last night was it came from a play. where I could just sense you're probably looking at this and frustrated from the blowback,

right? That when stuff like this happens, in many cases, it can bring out the worst in people or possibly show how they really feel about a situation. And so if you can't, just kind of take me through your experience before you even type that out. Like, is that what's happening? As you're witnessing, because there's going to be a segment of society that does, you know, that there's blowback. Oh, the millionaires have it so bad. Oh, yeah. These guys are going to boycott. They're going to cut their nose off despite their face. You know, it's a business and whatever. As you as you see the blowback, I can only imagine that there's a level of frustration that moves you to feel like, hey, I need to speak up now on this because this is really bothering me.

Now, it started Monday, to be honest with you, I had an awful day Monday. Like, you know, I'm new to Twitter, right? So I wasn't expecting, you know, you know, you just never know what people are going to say, right? So I put out a tweet, I believe it was Saturday or Sunday. And I got a response from a lady who blamed our culture for what's going on in the world and said it was our fault, right? We're teaching people to be disobedient to police officers, and that's why they're getting killed. And that stuck with me, right? And that ate at me because I'm sitting here thinking to myself, how can you be so coarse to believe that shooting someone in the back seven times is the only way to go about getting a job done, right?

They're police officer and they are highly trained. They have, you know, take down techniques. they have a baton. They have, I mean, there's a million other ways that you could prevent someone, you know, if you do, you know, have that fear, then shooting someone in the back seven times.

And I was disgusted that somebody could actually justify that in their mind. And it says to me, like, where are we? You know what I mean? Like, where are we? And all this positive and all the good that I see out there, like there's this, you know, there's this stink that's surrounding it. And, like, I mean, it tore me apart, just to be honest with you.

Like, I had to call some people and have conversations with them to kind of get my mind out of a bad spot. And, you know, the more and more I thought about it, the more and more you see it, you know, we know the side of right, right? And these guys are on the side of right. And, you know, I think about some of the people who now follow me on Twitter, who, you know, completely disagree with what the players and what I'm saying. And, you know, it's one thing to disagree, but it's another thing to have empathy and understanding for someone, right?

Like, if I'm hurt as a human being, you should care that I'm hurt, right? And ask me, say, you know, why does this bother you? And let's have a discussion. Maybe you never change your mind. But as a human being, you should be able to say, look, you know, another human. human being is hurting and, you know, not just be so, you know, disgusting in your tone that it's just, you know, like, like, because they're basketball players or because they're black, they're lesser than, you know, and it's not, you know, they're not these animals in the

zoo, right? These are human beings who have feelings who, you know, sacrifice a ton. Like, you think about what these dudes are doing right now. They're in a bubble. right, away from their families, whose kids are getting ready to go back to school, some of them, dealing with coronavirus, you know, dealing with police brutality and social injustices,

and they're in a bubble away from the people who support them and they need the most. And you have that, we talked about you were able to sit at the dinner table with your son. They can't do it. That's right.

They can't do it. You know, so that is a sacrifice. And they're doing it. for the greater good because they know we need sports. So at least have the decency to respect them and understand their sacrifice and know that, you know, they are more than a ball bouncing, you know. And I think that's where the frustration came from me. It's like, you know, let's not live this two-faced world, man.

Like, you know, don't, you know, don't cheer and applaud and, you know, I love you so and so and this, that. And then when that person is hurting with something that they may disagree with you about, now you shun them, right? Now you don't care. Now they're an animal. That's what made me so upset and frustrated

and why I tweeted what I tweeted. J.B., let's get to a lighter note, which is basketball. You are going to play some basketball, it seems, right? The teams that were not included in the bubble, I'm interested to hear where you came out on this, What kind of questions you had about it? Are you happy that this is all going to be taking place?

I mean, you've got a lot of guys that haven't played basketball at a long time. I mean, hopefully you'll get your team all back and they're in great shape and everything. But just wanting to play basketball after not being down there in that bubble and what's going to happen with the teams that didn't go? Walk me through it. Well, so it's been a lot, right? We've asked for a lot. You know, we've asked for, you know, small camps where we could play against other. teams that weren't invited to the bubble as well.

You know, we've asked for everything under the sun. You know, we've settled on this. Am I happy about it? Yes, because we just needed something. You know, at this point, we'll take you anything. So we're going to be able to get our guys together, you know, going to have to go through the exact same thing that they went down in Orlando as far as testing policies and how many negative tests you have to have in a row before you can go in the bubble.

and then going in the bubble, which for us is a hotel that we've rented here in Cleveland, you know, spending two days in quarantine in your room and then coming out of there, needing two more positive tests before we can move forward. And, you know, we're going to be allowed to, you know, compete against one another, get some 5-1-5 and some live action in an extremely safe environment. And our guys need it. You know what I mean? Like, you think about this and I know, obviously you know this.

But you think about the experience that the Grizzlies were able to have. You think about the experience the sons were able to have. That was a lot of pressure-filled basketball for those guys, right? So that helps those young guys grow. And, you know, they had five weeks of practice together. You know, they had five weeks where I talked to one coach, and he told me, you know, because he or his players don't have anything else to do, he was able to spend so much one-on-one time with his guys

and build relationships with his guys that we never had that opportunity to do during a regular season or even during the summer, you know, for that matter. So there was a lot going on down there that we missed out on, but we got to figure out a way to make it work, right? We can't, you know, use that as an excuse, but we got to get our guys together and we got to get some work done. I get the sense that you and a lot of people around the league

do kind of wish those other eight teams had, have been able to go down to Orlando, especially considering how successful it has been with the testing protocols there for that experience. Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, you know, I understand the reasons behind it, right? And again, our league is the best professional sports league in my mind that there is.

So they did what they thought was right, you know, as far as keeping people healthy and keeping people safe and limiting the numbers that were down there. but, you know, for sure, we would have loved to been invited and have that opportunity to play those games and have those practice times and time together. Because what you can't, you know, miss on is, you know, the chemistry that's able to be built in those circumstances too.

You know what I mean? Like we talk about individual player development and that type of stuff, but team development is so key. And in five weeks and in pressure-filled games, I mean, the Phoenix Suns were a perfect example of it. you know what I mean like you know we'll see what it has to do next year now those guys believe they can win right so I think it's you know we missed that experience for sure so crazy J.B because I think there was this general sentiment of well there's nothing to play for if they go down there what's the point right and you just kind of outlined all the positives you know from your perspective of like this is why it would have been great for us and me right is for this team building and like yeah okay we're not making the playoffs even if we go on to defeated, but there would have been great benefits to it. And that's why you guys just want to get back on the court at all, right? No doubt about it. I mean, like you said, it's important. And that's what it is,

especially in our circumstance, you know, coaching staff that took over with 11 games remaining, you know what I mean? There's just so much that we want to do and get our hands on our guys and help build. But, you know, we've done our best with our guys, you know, tried to keep them engaged. we had all of them in town the past two weeks working underneath the league's guidelines of how we could work them out and do team building stuff and things like that. So we're trying. And, you know, our organization is great and giving us all the resources that we can. I will say this. Kevin tried to get you down there, J.B.

He wanted to see Larry Nance at the three. I was laughing him off. I said, oh, we need the calves down there now, huh, Kev? He loves Larry Nance at the three, J.B. With all those bigs, you guys have 74 minutes this year with Larry Nance at the three, very unusual having him run around screens against DeMardo Rosen and Duncan Robinson. But it worked. You guys were good. That's what I was going to say. Like, if you look at the numbers, I don't know if you're a numbers guy, Kevin, but if you look at the numbers of that big lineup, that big lineup was tough.

Larry Nance of the three, you guys outscored teams by 29 points per 100 possessions in 74 minutes. Killing it. Wow. You guys could zig while everybody. else is zagging. Every time I talk to Larry Nance, that's all he says to me. Hey, J.B., you line up, big lineup. Hey, it was only 11 games, but you did stumble onto something, huh? We'll see. I'm not giving away my whole card. I got you. Last thing. This has been an extremely stressful and trying several months for everybody, right? Like, I mean, there was a, there was a

sentiment that I got from one of my friends last night that was, you know, he's like, look, I just, I don't know where this, what's going to happen with, with all the NBA stuff, because people are like without their jobs and losing their businesses and people are terrified of catching an illness and people are now trying to figure out how to educate their own children. Like, they're not qualified. You and I were talking about this last night. We're not qualified to homeschool. All.

Right. So they, I tried to help. my fifth grader with his homework, I swear to God. There were three words I didn't know. I didn't know the word. He said, I have to use this in a sentence. And I didn't know. I was like, I can't help you.

I got to Google it. I got to go. But no, I mean, with the stress of all of that going on. And then for the African American community, they're flipping on their TV and seeing somebody get shot in the back seven times. It's just, it's all been so exhausting, overwhelming for everyone is dealing with something. And I wonder, how have you gotten some level of normalcy slash happiness?

Like, what have you been doing? You don't have basketball, right? And I know you've got the kids and you've got your wife. But like over the last couple of months, have you taken up anything new? Have you started watching movies or TV shows? I am all Netflixed out. I've seen everything on Netflix. I've moved on to Hulu and Prime TV now.

But, you know, to be honest. honest with you, and this is something that, you know, it means a lot to me. It's like, and I had this conversation with my wife and my kids the other day. This is the most time that I've spent with my kids since they've been born. Right. We've never get to spend this amount of time together. You know what I mean? We're always gone and traveling. So I found, like, you know, peace in that. You know, like, they're, they're awesome. You know what I mean? Like, We have conversations with them and their little minds are just working. You know what I'm saying?

Like they're 10 steps ahead of you. But, you know, it's like it's fun to just have those conversations with them. And honestly, like get to know them really. You know what I mean? Like we have three of them and they're so close together that, you know, I just lump them in. Like, you know, my badass kids. But individually, you know, they're different. And so it's been fun to get to know them individually as well.

So how old are your kids? seven, eight, and nine, right? Seven, eight and nine, yep. Yeah, they went back to school, second grade, third grade, and fourth grade. Wow. They went to school Friday was their first day. Well, and it does put it in perspective because I will even remember when you were here talking to them. And, you know, this is what you lose sight of, to your point.

They had just gotten back, I think it was Nashville that they had gone to spring break for. They had gone up there for like three or four days spring break. Like, you don't get to go on any of the spring break trips when you're coaching in the NBA, right? Like, I mean, they do that stuff on their own. I mean, sorry. They got, I mean, and nowadays these kids have more breaks than you can possibly imagine. So they go, I mean, you know, they're going on nice trips. They're going to nice trips.

We're stuck somewhere in the middle of the winter struggling. But, you know, like I said, it's been, you know, that's been the one silver lining of all this is, you know, the ability to spend that time with them and hang out with them. Last thing. We will all get back to watching basketball. here in a couple of days and hopefully it does not take the attention away from what these guys are trying to accomplish. You mentioned very earlier how good the basketball has been. Have you been stunned at the quality of games and especially like you're watching on TV

in that environment where, you know, they got the jumbotrons with the, you know, the virtual fans and like it's just also awkward. And yet when you watch it on TV, it now doesn't feel awkward at all, at least to me. No, it works. You know, and I mean, that's the genius of our league. That's the genius of television. The thing that's been most impressive to me, though, that's been so much fun to watch is the individual performances. You know what I mean?

Like, there's just been dudes who have just been flat out going to get it. And that's the fun. And it's not just one a night. You know what I mean? Like, you're going at each other, you know, whether there's the Dame Lillards of the worlds or the Murray's and Donovan Mitchells and, you know, like the Donch is like, these dudes are going after each other. And that's been fun for me to watch.

And I think, you know, that competitive spirit takes away the need for all the extra stuff that's going on in the stands that we're so used to seeing. And the cameras, you know, pan-angling all around. Like, we're watching these dudes, you know, get after it. And I think that's been the fun part, you know, is watching those individual performances that we've seen. Wow. as someone that loves defense so much, J.B., I'm shocked.

I figured watching these games will be an absolute nightmare. You guys scored 57, a guy scoring 51, a guy having a 43 point triple double. Like, that's your nightmare. I've given up on defense, bro. Let's have to score everybody. So is the whole league. They just giving up, right? Need some more rule changes to help the defense out now, right?

Yeah, we do need some rule. changes. J.B., you're the best. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on with us today. I certainly appreciate it. And I would tell you, if there's one tip, turn those replies off on Twitter. I know you said it ruined your day on Monday. It's been ruined on our days for 10 years. There's just people out there and you don't. And sometimes it might not even be a real person, seriously. Now with all the bot stuff going on. So I don't let that get to you because I think that you being there and having a voice is of great, great value. I really do. No, I appreciate that, my man. Thank you guys for having me. Take care. Stay out of trouble, too. All right, we'll try.