The Ringer NBA Show - Jimmy Butler–Heat Drama Continues. Plus, Predicting All-Star Game Reserves. | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Heat guard/forward Jimmy Butler has been suspended yet again by the team after leaving a shootaround. Logan, Raja, and Howard Beck open the pod with a lengthy discussion on how Jimmy’s latest plea to be traded to another team could affect his career (1:12). Jalen Williams of the Oklahoma City Thunder believes there should be three All-Defensive teams and two Defensive Player of the Year awards due to the differences in how you have to defend as a guard vs. as a big. Does he have a point (21:31)? Logan and Howard pick their All-Star reserves (39:06). Plus, mailbag! Hit the mailbag!: [e-mail] Get your tickets to the live show at Punch Line San Francisco on February 15 here: https://www.universe.com/events/the-ringer-nba-show-real-ones-live-tickets-9NVPKF Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real On The Ringer MBA show, and I want to invite you to pull up and kick it with Roger Bell, Howard Beck, and myself during All-Star weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the Stork Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2 p.m. pre-giving all the All-Star festivities, and you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com backslash for Vince. That's ringer.com backslash events. to see you there. What's popping?

Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. Howard Beck and the motherfucker. Cliff is on the boards. With just a big smile on his face because his birds are going to the Super Bowl. This is our second intro that, you know. So anyways, we're going to talk about some Jimmy Butler.

We're going to talk about this, a little bit of that, some All-Star stuff. Get to your mailback questions. Let's start with Jimmy really quick off the top. Me and Howard had our little pre-pod talk yesterday. and we're going to make this fast. But I just want to say, just first of all, he's been suspended indefinitely,

which means he's probably suspended up until the trade deadline. And that's honestly irrelevant to the fact that the content that has accompanied this saga has been amazing. I DM brought up twice of like Instagram videos of Jimmy Butler and Kevin Love. where are we right now? Where are we right now? Let's just do that quick five minutes on Jimmy Butler. How are you feeling your face is getting a little red, your blood boiling?

How are we going? Are we good? Like, what's going on? How are we feeling about the Jimmy Butler saga at this stage? I feel like we've said everything we could say, but like it's top of news right now. Listen, I'll say this. We have resolution of some sort, right? If he's suspended indefinitely, then I think they said minimum five games.

which takes us through the trade deadline. Trade deadline now nine days away as we tape this. Yeah. So the saga is basically over. If we can assume that he gets traded by the trade deadline, at least the Butler versus Riley saga is done. It's over. He's suspended until the trade deadline.

Hopefully he gets traded by the trade deadline. Then he's somebody else's headache. It'll be really fascinating to see what Jimmy says when he reaches his next destination and talks again and how the heat respond or don't when that happens. But I think we can safely say, I shouldn't assume too much. There are a lot of people around the league who feel like and felt like even before this, it was going to get resolved, meaning via trade. So if we can assume a trade, and we should not assume,

but if we can assume as trade is happening, at minimum, the Miami-Jimmy thing is done. And nine days from now at the latest, he'll be somewhere else. And we don't have to talk about suspensions. anymore or missing planes unless it happens with the next team, which you can never rule out. Roger, do you think this should have happened sooner? I mean, it seemed like we were coming to this conclusion pretty fast, right? Like, it felt like both sides were dug in. So they have just been like, yo, Jimmy, even like, just we'll see you soon and we'll, you know, pay your salary or not pay your salary, but like you can, I mean, because like, they know their team better than we

know them. Like, shouldn't they have just like done this from jump if they were at the this impasse? Yeah, I don't know, man. I mean, at this point, like, when you're matching Petty with Petty, and I think I'm correct on this, but if I'm wrong, please let me know. Like, if you, if you are telling someone to go away, you are responsible for their salary. So, like, that's basically a win-win for someone in Jimmy's situation.

Like, you don't want to play the role. You're asking him to play. You're letting him not be responsible for coming to practice and shit like that. And you still have to pay him. Well, if you just make it untenable to the point. point where he don't want to be there and he's acting a fool now you get to suspend him and you don't have to pay him for that right like so when you're matching pettiness with pettiness i mean that's a net win for the heat right like you're like we we get to suspend you now versus making you go away without pay um

you know i i i'm in agreeance with howard like i think it is done now that they've now that they've taken this step and and it's just completely like unresolvable i i don't remember you asked me last time, Logan, if I thought, like, Miami would swallow the poison pill if they had to. I'm not so sure they do that anymore. I think suspending him through the trade deadline, like clearly their intent is to move him. Like, I mean, I guess there's still a world where that doesn't happen. But it's just crazy because, like, I, you know, again, I've referenced, you know, getting sideways with an organization and, and taking my golf clubs on road trips and stuff like that. But, you know, missing flights and walking out of stuff. Like, that's

wild and you know it's just it's just not a great look man and i'm i'm for the most part pro player but for the random fan that i hear blaming the heat and pat riley for what's happened here um i'm always baffled at that person because i i mean at the end of the day it's your job you're a professional basketball player or you're a professional football player or you're on it you know you're on a team and whether you like it or not like you have a duty to show up there and try and try to do your work. Now, you don't have to like what they're asking you to do, but you got to do it. And I just don't see how people are blaming anyone other than Jimmy on it. I think the other thing, and I thought of you when this was happening, Roger, like, there's also, like,

when you talk about from a teammate aspect, there's been, you know, we referenced Kevin Love, like, making fun of the situation, right? And he has, like, a good, a good way about it and and bringing levity to it. But I think about Tyler Hero who's like, you know, I paraphrasing, but his quote was, you know, that's Jimmy. And like, he's in and out of the lineup and we just got to figure it out, right? And then like, but I think what's getting lost in this discussion, it's all the entertaining part of Jimmy and like he's done this in multiple things,

but also just like what it does to the teammate aspect. And I think that's what you see. Like when you see the backlash from like a Udonis Haslam, this is why it is, right? because yeah, you're trying to get what you want, but at a certain point, like, something has to give. You can't do your teammates like that. Yeah, what's left in the wake of that?

You're walking out of a shoot around because you didn't get what you want. Why would you even come anyway? I feel like there's a discernment between teammates if, on one hand, say if you're going through a contract impasse, and you know there's more better than I do, Roger, but like players don't get in other players' pockets like that. That's between you and management, right? But when you bring it to the team and you come back, you should be all in with the group.

And I feel like the problem here with Jimmy Butler is he's got one foot in and out. Like, either come and go to work or not. But I feel like he's putting his teammates through a roller coaster that they don't deserve. Well, I think, you know, you're right in that while we're not in each other's pockets and we're not really, worried about your negotiations with with the team versus mine and x y and z like when you start when you start creating this level of instability um around the organization um that that is now affecting my bread because it's affecting some degree my ability to go out there and win games my ability to to either start or not start if i'm backing you up and i'm the sometimes starter um every everybody

else that's in the lineups you're just affecting everyone's ability and you're affecting their pockets in that way. Not to mention that, you know, I would say for the most part, even that sometimes is like, all right, man, like we're going to put Jimmy, you know, or whatever player out of our mind. We're going to treat it like he's not going to be here to the best of our ability to compartmentalize that. If he shows up, we will try to like incorporate him on the fly, but we got to prepare as if he's not a part of the team. That's the only way we can really do this and keep rolling in the right direction. Where people start getting salty is when you got him sitting around on a tarmac waiting for five fucking hours or whatever that is. Now, now you're fucking with me.

right? Like you acting like your time is more important than mine. While you might be a more important you know, cog in this wheel, like don't mistake us as human beings and your time being more important than my time. I might have something to do or some family where we're headed to and shit to do. And that's when you start to disrespect your teammates in a real way, right? Like the rest of it is is work environment. But like when you start having people waiting five hours around for you, like, like that's their job. Now I start to get a little, you know, heated at the situation in a way that I might not be ordinarily. Well, here's the thing, too.

Like, why is Jimmy in this funk in the first place? Well, it goes back to not getting the contract extension that he wanted in the offseason. So it all starts there, right? And eventually this ends with, I need to be somewhere else. The heat have already told him. They've told the world, we're going to trade you when we get the right offer. They're not trying to keep him. They're not trying to hold him hostage.

So for Jimmy to come back and then act up again, do whatever, you know, missing a practice, missing a plane, you know, walking out a shootaround because he's not going to start, whatever. They've already told you they're going to trade. You're going to get what you want. In the meantime, all you have to do is show up, show at least a minimal amount of professionalism. You're not going to play hard because you already weren't playing hard, which I hate to say, because I love Jimmy Butler for how hard he always plays throughout his career.

But it's clear the last month or so that he's been just trying to angle his way out through whatever means possible. But come to work, play up to some certain minimal standard. Just do your thing. You don't want to talk to anybody. Don't talk to anybody. You want to be a dick, be a dick. Oh, it's fine. Whatever. But they've already said they're going to trade you. And there's less than two weeks left. Like, could you just show up and do the right thing in the short term until they finally resolve this by, he couldn't even do that much. Like, this is all on him. And I'm, Roger, I'm so glad you said this as the former player. Because, The number of people, like the arguments I was getting it to last night on blue sky,

everybody come find me on blue sky at Howard Beck.BskY.com. Social. I am not tweeting on the other platform at all anymore at this stage. The arguments I was getting from people trying to make, well, what about the heat's response? What about Riley? What did they do other than not give him an extension and not trade him the second he said I want out?

It's hard to make trades in this league, harder than ever. and especially when it's somebody with Jimmy Butler's contract, Jimmy Butler's age, 35 with a lot of wear and tear. He doesn't play a lot. And all of these antics are the kind of things that scare off a lot of teams. So it's not like they're trying not to trade him or inflame the situation. I don't know where the heat have gone wrong here. I don't like I don't ever want to sound like I'm an apologist for either side in any of these conflicts. But this is like 99.8% Jimmy Butler at this stage. Yeah. I mean, I 100% agree, Howard. I am more often than not seeing things through a player's lens going to side with the player. And, you know, I pride myself on calling a spade of spade. I agree with you 100%. Like I'm, and I would just add, I think you touched on it as like, look, dude,

you're not even like what you want is to get out of here. And you're like tanking our ability to do that. Like, do you know what I mean? That's my biggest thing with this, bro. You're not even helping us help you. You over here leak it, I don't want, I want to go anywhere, but Memphis, you're doing the fucking I'm back shit, right? Like, and then like losing by 30. The I'm back thing was, was like, embarrassing.

So embarrassing, bro. You were not Michael Jordan. And the context kind of matters with the I'm back, by the way. Good Lord. I mean, I'd like to see him on Phoenix all that with all the tits of purposes just because of like he put a kick in their ass. but like does does anybody want this headache right then you know like you're gonna you're gonna have to get both give up assets and then pay them on another deal like dude that's a scary one man if i was in some i'm telling you if i was in somebody's front office you know at this point um

and i've sat in those meetings when you're brainstorming with the whole office you got analytics in there you probably got your owner like on a conference call where you all sit around in one of those war rooms and like kind of throw shit back and forth like i'd probably be the person in there with the like guys are we sure like I don't are we sure about this I just at this point see some like having like someone who's willing like he is willing to burn your shit to the ground like that's that scares me people who are willing to do that like like scare me to Howard just you know you come in you go to work like again I'll go back to Utah I didn't love that and I was playing golf on the road trips. But when I had to be at practice, I was at a damn practice.

When I had to work in a practice, I worked in a practice. Pregame, when it was time to shoot and get my shots up, we're doing that. When it was time to be on a bus, you're on a bus. Like, yeah, I'm not happy about it. And in my free time, I might do something I want to do in a way that I haven't ordinarily done. But when it's time to clock into work, you clock into work. Someone who can't do that and is willing to like just burn your shit to the ground, I'm afraid of them. By the way, quick, just side note because it comes up every so often these discussions. And Raja, you alluded to it earlier. The heat could not have resolved this by just sending Jimmy away because in the new collective bargaining agreement with the player participation policy,

you're no longer allowed to just by mutual consent, say, where you were to send you home. So they couldn't, like that was not an option. It was not an option on the table to just say, listen, go away until we figure out how to trade you somewhere. It was not an option. So their only the option was play him if he shows up, suspend him if he violates team rules. And that's what they've done. Like everything that he'd have done has been in reaction to Jimmy and in trying to defuse or resolve the situation. And the only thing you can blame them for not doing, I suppose, is not trading him yet. But again, really hard to do in this league. And when they finally do make a trade in the next nine days, which I do think is going to happen just because

people around the league feel like it's going to happen. And I trust folks I talk to. It's going to end up being some wild ass like five, six team trade potentially. Like this is or it's at minimum, it's a third, third team, probably a fourth and maybe a fifth. And like it's going to and be like Jimmy's going to Phoenix and Beal is going to like Chicago and Levine's going to Milwaukee. And it's going to be one of these. It's going to, Middleton's going to land somewhere. It's going to be some crazy ass deal that involves like a half does. of the names that we've been, you know, monitoring. All the usual suspects for trade for trade.

Possibly. Possibly. It should be fun when it happens. And those take a long time to do. Like, obviously. They do. They take probably months. But I want to say one thing before we go off to another subject that me and Howard

have honestly been pumped faking because we wanted to get Rajin to talk about this. But anyway, before we get to that, I want to say. say something about like give flowers to the Miami Heat, the team, from the coaching staff on down, because a lesser group, the more fracture group, would fold under this. Like, I saw them in the bay, like, right after this, the first suspension went down. Like, they were still all business. You know, they were still, they won that game. They were still locked in.

And another, like, this type of thing could cripple a basketball team in a locker room. And hashtag heat culture. Hashtag We're out here. Hashtag bring Roger home. What the hell? No, but could I just say? Hashtag get Roger in the locker room.

Can I just say real quick though, by the way, the heat culture thing, it gets overdone. It's a little much. I don't think it does. I don't think it does. I really don't think it does. It grates on fans of other teams especially, right? Because it sounds so sanctimonious and smug.

and it is, but guys, like, Rajah, you've been around the league a long time. This is my 28th, it's hard to believe. I hate saying that out of lot. It's my 28th season covering the league. In the nearly 30 years that I've been covering the league, there's a handful of teams that you could identify as having meaningful, substantive, consistent cultures of some sort

and in a positive way, because there are plenty of bad cultures, too. There's a handful of teams over 30 years that you could point to. And Miami and San Antonio, of course, at the top of that list, and there are some others along the way. it's meaningful. And like the idea that Jimmy's, that the Jimmy saga somehow is indicative of heat culture being fraudulent, folks, it's the opposite.

They're suspending him to hold him accountable. And a team that has strong culture, strong values, defends those values and those standards by holding people accountable and suspending them if they're out of line. If you let him go and to Logan's point, if the team's coming apart, or now everybody is just going their own separate ways, that's when you've lost the. culture. The fact that they're still playing hard and just going about their business and just

not letting this affect them shows that the culture can't endure all. So like, I hate to be the one to sound like I'm not part of these smug hashtag heat culture thing. But folks, this is why you, you establish standards and stand by them and uphold them. And I mean, also to add on to that for that long, right, to like have a culture for that long because I think I'm looking at Roger right now, Like the sons had a legitimate culture when he was there, right? And sometimes- No, we're talking sustained. Sustain-sustained.

No, no, no. I'm saying how much, how impressive that is to have it for a long time. And I was referencing the sons. Like when they do, like when you guys had a culture, it was a culture, but it wasn't sustained, right? And to have it over 20, 30 years, it's crazy, Beck, because when you started covering a league, I was three years old. That's why. That was painful. Thank you.

Shout out to you. but I I just I do marvel at that I think it's a real thing that's why I don't really like say I don't think it's like it should be in your face anytime like you can only talk

I think the only thing you can compare it to is San Antonio and for this long at least right so yeah look San Antonio and San Antonio had to deal with Kauai right like this happens sometimes you get sideways to the player the Spurs culture of 30 years is not negated by the fact that

they got sideways with Kauai and ended up having to trade under duress. Like it's like culture is not negated by a crisis. It's how you handle the crisis that either sustains or or doesn't sustain the culture. So it's it culture is not perfection. Culture doesn't mean that the heat do everything right. The spurs do everything right. It means that they try to stay as consistent as possible with the values that they espouse. And I think we're seeing that. Sorry, Roger. No, it's it's it's good point. And I, and I would just say like both of those organizations like um you know had to deal with players um interestingly both of those players have at least a reputation of being high maintenance at points and and you know

looking for maybe things outside of of the norm or what everybody else on the team would get like there there are demands like for lack of better way to put it that that need to be met for them at times and i think that you know getting sideways with players like that i would argue is even more evidence of their culture and their sustained culture, like not capitulating to like, you know, to every single thing. Like we'll bend to a point. We'll acquies some of it.

Like we get it. You're the star, but like we're not going to completely, I think that's backbone. And I think not having a backbone is part of the reason you don't see teams with sustained cultures for extended periods of times. The ones that do, you know, inevitably are going to come across someone that is pushing the limits to the point

where they're like, hey, we've met our level of tolerance for that, and we won't stand for it. And you'll get sideways with them. But I think that's a representation of the culture. Yes. That was to the culture. Shout out to the culture. For the culture. All about the culture.

You know what we need more than ever, Roger? The culture. God damn right. Okay. This is something that being Howard have been soft-launched. Like, well, come, let's ask something with Raja. Like, what's a great topic for Raja? And it might be a little late in terms of, like, when this happened.

But a few weeks ago, old man in a three had Jalen Williams on. One of my favorite, one of my favorite, like, players in the league. Matter of fact, since I'm plugging stuff, I'm plugging Miriam Fader's profile of J-dub on the ringer.com. we should go read that. But he says something really interesting in this podcast where he said that all defensive team is only one of all, there's only one all defensive team in the league. He said he believed there should be two. No, no, there's two.

It should be three. It should be three. Three teams or three all or three defensive player of the years? No, what? No, oh, excuse me. Yeah, that's my bad. Three defensive, three all defensive teams instead of two. Yeah.

Two DPO wise instead of one. Right. There you go. There we go. Got it. Howard bested on my thing. Anyway, so, Raju, as our resident defensive stopper, what do you think of this? Yeah, I actually remember, I saw that.

And the three teams, that doesn't really move me in any way, shape, or form. Like, sure, they're more than 10 great defenders in the league. So I'm fine with it. But if you didn't do that, I don't know that there's necessarily a need for that, I wholeheartedly agree on the two defensive player of the years. And forgive me because I didn't watch the interview, but I don't know if, did he say that they should be differentiated between a big defensive player of the year and a, and a, that's exactly the way it should be.

And I heard some of his argument about it. I thought he was spot on with, with the statistics of being a defender. You know, the big is able to rack up more of the, of the actual, you know, tangible stats that support being a good defender blocks, boards, and stuff like that, where, like, you know, some of, steals aren't a true representation of how good of a defender you are. They're just not. They represent how much you gamble. Like, some of the, some of the highest steel per year guys that I've seen were pretty poor defenders. They just, they were out willing to gamble and put their team in real precarious situations behind them. So as a, as a wing defender

that sat down and guarded and, you know, didn't have a lot of stats because I was playing too good of a matchup to just gamble and look for steals. How would I then, like, rack up the amount of stats that one could see to support, you know, that type of award? So I agreed with him 100%. I thought it was a great call. And I was taking a step further, like, because, you know, obviously I get brought up all to time whenever it's Kobe time. Do you know what I mean? Because, you know, just because, and, you know, there were, there were a lot of games where Kobe would just give you the work. Like an NBA professional score, the SGAs of the world, the Kyrie's, you know, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant.

Like, those dudes are going to score. But some of the guys running. And they're going to have the shots to get to the points that they need to get to. Oh, yeah, they're going to get a pure volume of shots. All of that for sure. But, like, that doesn't negate the fact that the person guarding Kyrie is doing a hell of a job. Like, for people that really know what defense is about, it's not whether or not he makes the shot on me. Yeah.

Like, people know, people who know, know that I can't stop him from making that shot at the end of the day. There's nothing I can do. Because I see a lot of dudes out there guarding and, you know, my name comes up sometimes. But I see a lot of guys in today's day and age, and they make a highlight. and people are trashing him because the dude hit a shot over them. And my defensive eye is like, man, that guy did everything he could potentially do right. And that guy's just an amazing player that made a really, really tough shot. And so, I mean, I said a lot, but I guess the answer to your question is I would agree with him.

Do you think that we've gotten smarter right on how we look at defense, right? because, like, I think now just with advanced stats, I mean, even since I was a kid, like, it's got, it's just exploded. So, like, I feel like now if somebody gets 37 on you, right, or 37 on it in a game, that's an arbitrary number. But I think now, like, during games, we'll see the stat, like, when Roger guarded player X, he was one of seven, right? Like, do you think we've gotten smarter, which is how we look at defense? We have, and that's cool. And everyone has made the argument before, like, in the game, at least we used to back in the day or like, you know, he had 50, you know,

but he got hot when I was on the bench. You know what I mean? Like I had him kind of under control. And then, you know, I subbed out and Leandro gave him 10 and now it's hard to control him again. And so, yeah, we have gotten better with that. You know, but even within a night where, let's say Howard gives you 37 and he shoots a great percentage against you and you, you, um, you know, you, you, you had most of like 32 of them were on you, let's say, right? Any shot a good percentage. Well, I could still make a case watching

that game if you just had an unconscious, unordinary night scoring the ball because you were that kind of player, then Howard did a damn good job on you. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, and I don't, And so that's the space that's, that's, I don't know that we've advanced in. Like, good, you walk into any gym in the summertime and good O beats good defense every time. But, but. That's also the league, right? Like, everybody's just that good to where they can like just beat you on a given, on a day. Like, you just get hot making stupid shots, right?

Or like making crazy, you know, unorthodox shots because that's how good the league is. Yeah, but, but I do think to answer your question, I do. think that we have come a long way and being able to really, like, with the advanced stats, being able to dig into like your effectiveness as a perimeter defender. Like, they're better ways to, to kind of prove or disprove that at this point. But like, this is why I sympathize with what Janlon Williams is saying here. And I think he was largely saying this to advocate for Lou Dort. So Lou Dort, easily one of the best defenders in the league.

You guys realize he's never made the all defensive team, much less defensive player the year. And obviously, like, the Thunder have a bunch of really good defenders. But it's always been easier to quantify how a big, especially a seven-footer, who's a rim protector, affects defense, than guards. And like, you could say, well, we've got steals for the guards and blocks for the bigger or something like that. I think literally that's how primitive our analysis was for decades, because, like, those are the only stats we had. There was no tracking stats. There were no advanced stats, there was nothing else. But if you look at like the winners of the defensive player, the year award over the years, with the exception of what, so Marcus Smart broke it up

when he wanted in 22. But it was basically like all, you know, all centers or power forwards for years. You know, Kauai Leonard, if you want to say small forward perimeter, more of a perimeter perimeter defender. But like, you go back year after year after year. And it's Marcus Saul and Joe Kim Noah and Dwight Howard three times in a row. And it's Kevin Garnett and it's Marcus Camby and it's Ben us a bunch of times. MetaWorld peace breaks it up, but still, like, not guard guards. And you got to go all the way back to, like, Gary Payton in 96 to, like, find a guard who had won it. So, especially in today's MBA, where the responsibilities of the Biggs and the perimeter guys are so different, and we have better ways of quantifying. Like, I could see definitely having two. I absolutely think,

and I've advocated for this in the past, you can go back five, six, seven years, and I was advocating that we needed a third all-defensive team. There are more than 10 good guys. And I looked this up because I was curious. They started the all-defense teams in the 1968-69 season with two five-man teams, right? There were 14 NBA teams back then. So as a percentage that was pretty high. We got to 1988-89 when the NBA added Orlando and Miami, Charlotte, Minnesota over a two-year span.

So when the NBA hits expansion in the late 80s, that's when they went from two all NBA teams to three. So for the longest time, we had two all defensive teams, two all NBA teams. And the NBA did add the third all NBA team in 1988, 89, and they've never added the third all defensive team. And I'm not saying all NBA is strictly offense, but it's, it kind of is. I mean, it it's, it, it's, it, it, it, it's, it, it, it, it's, it, it, it, it's, it, it, it, it's, it, it, it, it's, it, it, uh, offense over defense. And so if you're having three all NBA teams, why don't we have three all defensive teams? And there's definitely enough candidates to fill them. Can I just tell, I'm going to break the seriousness for one second, so I want to

get back to the topic. But a quick little story. Coach AJ Millway from Texas was here the other night. Like, and we were kind of chopping it up and stuff like that. And I want to take a picture, you know, with him and Dia and the boys before he left. And so we went into like our little pool room and stuff. And I got jerseys on the wall and stuff like that. And, You know, there were some, there's some, like, awards laying out, like, on, on this, like, display kind of cabinet. And he was like, what's that? Like, and I was like, oh, do you want to see what you get for all defensive first team? And I showed him, it's like a little, it's like a little, it's, he was blown away by the little crystal cube that I have that, that you were awarded back in the day for winning all defensive first team.

Like, he couldn't believe that that's what you got. And it just happened, like, last week. So when we were out in Texas this weekend, he was, we were. were out to dinner and he was telling the story to someone else. And he was literally like, dude, you wouldn't believe what they gave them for winning in like first team all team. That's what they, that shows what the league prioritizes, right?

Ron, like, Jesus, come on. I'm not, I wasn't really complaining. It is kind of comical, but like,

I mean, I wasn't really complaining about it. But yeah, I mean, like, we all know that. I wonder if those are fancier now. It would be a good question.

I'd like to see what they get now. Retroactively pleased league give Braja a bigger trophy, bro. No, not. I didn't even like that. It was more comical, bro. I don't even go and look at that. But, like, showing him and his disbelief and that's what you got.

I was like, oh, that's crazy. Is it, is it bigger than my, my, uh, writing trophy from the PBWA from a few years back? Are we just flexing now? Oh,

no, no, it's about Howard. I love that. It's a, it's a, it's, it's,

it's, yeah, yours is bigger. It's, it's bigger. Uh, uh, wow. Wow.

Wow. Oh, oh, no. here's a pin that I heard from pain or at the store. Oh, oh goodness. I don't even, I had a question.

Shit. Where do we go from there? Where do we go? You go to break. Before we go to break, I just want to give some flowers real quick. Retroactive flowers, obviously, to Howard and Roger for their troves. Yo, man, I just don't know. I guess the flowers to the...

I don't have a segment for them, but, like, I just want to say, like, flowers to the Houston Rockets, man. I saw what they did last night in Boston. Dude, shout out, Amen Thompson. You know what I mean? Like, dude, that just... Amen. What M.A. Udoka has done there, you know, and I know what's happened prior to that or didn't.

We don't know exactly, but, like, yo, what he's doing right now in Houston, I don't think it's fully being seen right now. And I think last night in Boston was, like, a weird type of coming out party for a lot of people, where I just show, like, whenever you beat a good team on a stage like that, it was really good. So, Flowers to the Houston Rockets. I'd like to, he's one of the dudes. I'd actually like to sit in and watch him. I don't know if I've said this before, but the league, you know, around the NBA top 50 camp or top 100 camp,

it used to be up at the University of Virginia. They would do a coaching clinic. Brendan Sore would put it on. And they would film us, like current players that aspired to be coaches throughout the course of the weekend. coaching our team doing like workshops with with coaches uh running huddles teaching each other plays like and he was in my group like i may was in my group uh the year we went up there so not to say that i didn't see this coming but like i remember him starting on the journey because we were together um i would love to sit in and and just watch how he gets a team from point a to point b to point

see like because he's really really good like he's really good what i've impressed about him on from a coaching standpoint is he has both the smarts of a coach that is that can you know get great sets can get all these things right but also like he in every locker room he's been in he has earned his players respect it's a delicate balance because either you have one or the other right like either you have like the playbook, oh my goodness, Brad Stevens, just I have all these ATOs, right? Not to say that Brad Stevens

didn't have the human element, I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying what he was more known for. Or like you have, you know, what the Mark Jackson was in Golden State, right? This is a raw, raw guy that is going to be

to make players believe that they are going to do better than they're supposed to do. And MA has both, which is really impressive. The great ones have both. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, that's what you're saying, right?

Like, it's not everybody has both, but like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, they have, they're, they're able to have, the Phil Jackson's, the fills, yeah. I mean, Dan Tony, I mean, Dan Tony, no, Dan Tony was, yes, absolutely. Dan Tony was great at that. Like, I know a lot of people don't put him in the greats category, but I mean, I certainly do, but I didn't say his name because, you know, I ain't. Why you want to give, why you want to give my, no, because championships, I was, I was, I was using. champions, dog. Like, clearly, anybody asked me, Mike's, Mike's my guy. That's my, that's my favorite. Him and Jerry Sloan are my

two favorites. Was Jerry like that, too? Jerry was. So Jerry was interesting because not to take anything away from Jerry's offensive mind, but that was Phil Johnson's baby, the offense. So Jerry was more of

the other guy, like, obviously an ex-player, huge personality, like huge person, commanded respect, you know, motivational as hell, defensive-minded, and then Phil Johnson was the architect of the offensive stuff.

The other thing that stands out about EMA is just how old school he is in a league and in an era where like the coach isn't in charge anymore. Like it used to be like the coach was the boss. Right. The Pat Riley, Chuck Daly, Phil Jackson, whatever model. Like, we don't have a lot of that anymore. And like, like, no one's messing with E-M-A. though with A-May?

I'd be curious, though, like, down in whatever his coaching career is, when he coaches, like, a veteran, veteran group? Because the both, the two teams he had, his best players were, like, were younger, a little bit more impressionable, right? At least, you know, he inherited a young Jason Tatum and a young Jalen Brown now he haven't. So I'll be curious to see how that evolves if he has a veteran team, because, you know, veteran teams kind of leave, they don't, they don't like that. They don't like just all in your, in your, shit.

But anyways, flowers to the Houston Rockets. Say a quick break, and we're going to go over All-Star Reserves. If you're in need of a midweek boost, Fanduel, America's number one sportsbook, has you covered with the NBA Hump Day Parlay Profit Boost. Now, every Wednesday, you can get a Parlay Profit boost on everything, from spreads to over-unders, and even player props. I'm looking at Wednesday night, Mavericks at the Pelicans,

Kyrie probably with the over against the Pelicans team that is still trying to find its footing. Taking a look maybe even at the Clippers Spurs game, James Harden going up against Victor Wembenyama. I don't know if I want to take the over on Hardin when he's facing down Wemby in the lane. Also, a lot of intrigue in New York, Nuggets at Knicks, Yokic versus Towns. A lot of potential action there. So don't let the weekend have all the fun. take advantage of the Humpday Parlay's reward stack. Who knows, it might just become your favorite day.

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Restrictions apply, including any token expiration. See terms at sportsbook. Fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. And we are back. Me and Howard doing this segment of All-Star Reserves. It's a bit of editing magic from our guy, Cliff, here.

But it's going to be me and Howard doing the All-Star Reserves. has some real business to attend to. All right, All-Star Reserves. Let's pick. Give me your Eastern Conference Reserves, and then we can go through that, and then we'll go to the Western. And I'll tell you mine, and we'll swap a roof for the Western Conference. So who are your Eastern Conference Reserves right now?

Just to remind the listeners, the starters, as chosen by the combination of fans, media, and players, the starters are in the back court, Jalen Brunson, Donovan Mitchell, front court is Janus, Jason Tatum, and Carl Anthony Towns. So for the reserves, and these are going to be picked by the coaches. So settle down, folks, before you start getting mad at us for who we picked or didn't pick or whatever, this is all just for fun. The coaches are picking the reserves. We'll find that out Thursday night when TNT announces it. You get three front court, two back court, and then two at any position.

So here are mine. The three front court reserves. Evan Mobley, Pascal Seacum, Jalen Brown. backcourt, Darius Garland, and Cade Cunningham, and then the two wildcard spots I went with Trey Young and Dame Lillard. Okay. I can get with that. I picked on this one for my back court, I picked Dame Lillard and Trey Young.

For my front court, I picked Evan Mobley and Pascal Seacum, and I picked Kate Cunningham also for my front court. And I think I pushed my wild card to Jalen Brown. And the reason why, and I was like kind of back and forth on if I was going to get like Jalen Brown like a solid slot, but like he's he's not shooting particularly well this year. And I think, and I wanted to, he's, he's, offensively, he is shooting like the worst he has since his rookie year. And I, I didn't want to reward that. And Cade Cunningham is playing phenomenally right now. And he is elevating the Detroit Pistons up to a level. And he's been the face of that, which is really cool to see considering he was the face of a lot of losing.

And we're like, is Cade Cunningham actually legit? Do we really know if he's going to be good? And I do want to reward that over Jalen Brown, which would seem to be maybe an institutional pick at this point. But you still put them both in? I did. Okay. So do we have these, so we have the same seven, it sounds like, right? Yeah, we do have the same.

Yeah. So the only difference is that you wanted to kind of like elevate Cunningham on some level and you force fed him into the front court, which is fine. And I force fed him into the front court as a wing. But it's, but the reserves are the reserves. So it's ultimately kind of immaterial. Yeah. It's all it's semantics at that point. But I do want to make a distinction on Jalen Brown versus Cairn Cunningham. I get that. And you're and you're right about Jalen. But like, you know, there are guys who reach a certain level. It's not just an institutional pick. It's kind of like a down year for Jalen Brown is still better than like, you know, 95% of the league. Right. Like the. The. dude is still having a great overall season, a little down on the shooting side, as you note, but he and Tatum still have the Celtics, you know, the, the weirdness of this month, notwithstanding, that that theme is still on track and winning a ton of games. So who was like a tough, was there a tough cut for you in the East? Because I don't, I didn't really struggle with too much of this. There were guys I considered, but there was nobody that I was like, oh, I can't believe I can't fit. Honestly, other than Lamello Ball, Howard, I didn't really have a problem on it. well this but this exercise just shows you why lamello by if if we're not just taking to

consideration like what the fans want to see or his entertainment value it's it's that hard to get him on there because there were as we just went through it like garland cunningham tray and dame those are four four more guards that you just had to get on who were all i think more deserving the other thing about lamello which i didn't realize until i was like looking through all the stats again this morning he's missed 12 out of 43 games. So, like, he'd played the fewest games of all the guys that you could have considered, too. And, like, I definitely, like, that's something I weigh in.

Like, when we get to the West, I didn't, like, one of my first cuts was John Morant, same reason. like, Jaws just hasn't played enough games. Lamello hasn't played enough games. So even before you get to anything else about stats, efficiency, whatever else, I think Lamello was an easy cut just because he hasn't played as many as the rest of these guys. You know, I do think, what about, um, If you were to just, no, I couldn't say it.

I was going to say Palo, but he's missed so many games. Too many games. No, Palo and Wagner I didn't even consider. Yeah. I'm looking down the list just to see any. I don't, the Eastern Convo's is pretty straightforward other than. And your wife was straightforward? Because Palo and Wagner in a normal year where they're not hurt are in the mix.

Joel and Beaton normal years in the mix. Paul George would have, should have been in the mix. Jimmy Butler should have been in the mix. Like, we've got all these guys. Like, if there's somebody I felt bad about cutting, maybe it was like, I didn't get any of the heat guys on here. Like, we were just praising the heat earlier for how professional and, you know, they're still like playing hard. It's not a great year for BAM, but Tyler Hero's having a career year. Couldn't fit either of them on.

But I don't feel all that bad about it. Again, it's an unofficial ballot anyway, so who cares? Who are your Eastern? I mean, excuse me, who is your Western Conference picks? All right. So again, to review for the listeners in the West, the starters. are Shea Gildes Alexander and Steph Curry in the back court, Yokic, LeBron, and Kevin Durant in the front court.

So for the reserves, three front court guys, I went Wembeñama, who had been on my ballot as a starter, my official ballot. Wembeñama, Anthony Davis, and DeMontasabonis were my three front court reserves. My two back court reserves, Ant Edwards, and Kyrie. The second guard was hard, but I went Kyrie. Wild card spots, Alperin Schengun, and Jeremy. and Jackson Jr.

I picked, a little similar to that. Obviously, in the back court, I picked Anthony Edwards. I think, like, whatever you want to say about his three-pointers and all those things,

he's playing, he's playing individually pretty well. And I don't buy into the notion necessarily that he is regressed as a player. I do think that his team around him has regressed. And that has a lot to do with,

you know, the departure of Carl Towns. And, you know, I think there was a miscalculation on that point. And, including for myself, but I'm not in the front office, right? I did think that, you know, maybe I did like the move in when it happened, but like,

clearly it's, it has blown up in their faces and they need to regroup. But I don't think that that has anything to do with Anthony Edwards because he is facing quadruple teams and is still getting his shots off and is still getting his points. So I pick Anthony Edwards. For the back court, this might surprise you. I mean, I picked, well, for the back court. I was going back and forth on this. But for my back court, I put James Hardin in there.

And the reason why I put James Hardin in there for the simple fact that, like, I think this was a very much of a redemption season for James Harden. He's playing really well. I don't think that he gets enough credit for how good the Clippers have been. I know Norn Powell gets a lot of that credit right now. And I've seen on some people's ballots that he is some people's back court guy. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. but I think James Harden, I think reputationally, I think we expected something different from him.

But what is he, 35 years old, still leading a team with all the uncertainty. And I think a lot of that also has to do with Ty Lou being the great coach that he is. But I think James Hardin should be rewarded for the fact that he has been the face of a team that is exceeding expectations. Now, the playoffs are another deal, but we're not talking about that right now. Yeah. So James Hardin is my back court, my other back court aside from Anthony Edwards. Obviously, Victor Womenyama is in there. I would have had him as a starter. We talked about the politics of it. I wish we could have talked about that more with Roger, but it just didn't have enough time. But Victor Womenyama is a front court guy. Anthony Davis, did you see his performance yesterday against Charlotte? It was incredible. It was his annual winter. I'm just going to be Wilts Chamber. for a night. He had 43 and 23 just to remind people of who he is. So Anthony Edwards, I mean, Anthony Davis is also in my front court. Another guy that I think is going to be there that should be there on my front court that I just wanted to put in there, Jalen Williams. We talked

about him earlier in the pod. But I think that he is far and away, one of the best guys. And I think because Shea is so good, even still doesn't get as much notoriety as I think he should. He's a bona fide dude, so put Jalen Williams in there. Wild card? This is tough. This is tough. I think I'll put Kyrie in there, just for what he's been able to do. He's keeping them afloat.

Like the Mavericks have a winning record, and Luke hasn't played in a month. I got to put Kyrie in there. there. And one other thing, it's interesting, just like, we'll talk about this. The Jimmy Butler saga reminded me and made me think about Kyrie a little bit, just for the simple fact that they were kind of in the similar situations. I mean, you saw them in Brooklyn. He has completely changed his reputation in Dallas, but he was also a lot younger than Jimmy Butler. But so I put Kyrie in there as a reserve and, or as a, as a, as a, as a, wild card. And what do you think about Shen Goon as a wild card? I've got him on mine. So yeah,

he was one of my seven reserves. Shengoon and Geron Jackson Jr. were my last two in the wild card slots. Okay. I think we were, aside from James Hardin, I think we're on the same page, right? I think so. Did you have Sharon Jackson Jr. as well or no? No. No. All right. So you have, you have Hardin and Jaylon Williams. I have Edwards. Hardin. Yeah. No, no. It's my. The difference is you have Jalen, you have Jalen Williams and Hardin where I have Sabonis and Jaron Jackson Jr. Yeah, we're not mad at those lists.

That's fine. Yeah. Works. And I like, I seriously considered Hardin, like, everything that you just said. And it's funny that like,

because Norm Powell's having this breakout season, like he's getting to the extent that there's some discussion of like who an All-Star should be from the Clippers, it's Powell, but like, like the Clippers aren't the Clippers. that we're seeing, like they're not this competitive having gone most of the season without Kauai, if not for James Hardin's scoring and playmaking. And he's not as efficient as he once was.

He doesn't score the volume he once did, but he's still way more effective than I think we expected at this stage of his career. And it's not just grading on a curve. Like, I think he's legitimately all-star worthy. I didn't squeeze him on here, but like he was definitely worth considering. It's a version of what he did is what he was used to be doing in Houston, right? where he would be this guy that has the ball all the time with teammates that you would and elevating his teammates. The knock was never on Hardin was never his regular season play. In fact, he probably should have gotten one of those MVP's because of it, right? And the problem was always a playoff.

And that still remains to be seen in L.A. right now. But as of right now, James Hardin is doing what you got to do. So I think he should be rewarded for that. So, you know. That's our list. That's our list. I don't disagree. There we go.

People rage about it all you want because these are unofficial and they don't matter. We talk so much stuff about lamello ball and I posted Bell and he didn't end up on either one of our reserve lists. I think people expected he wasn't going to end up on mine. If he'd be ended up on mine, that would have been weird. Also, I wanted to do it from like a coach's standpoint because that's the people who are. So like if he was a starter, that is, that would have more input from a fan's perspective. But like on this time, coaches typically tend to be guy or people that are for the good of the game type picks. And lamello is not for the good of a game type pick.

The coaches, I'll be shocked if the coaches put Lamello on the reserves, like if he's selected this week. I mean, like, anything could happen. But like, and not just, this is not just me sliding Lamello. It's like, it's partially his makeup as a player right now, partially where the Hornets. are in the standings. And partially just the fact that, again, like, Garland and Cade Cunningham are almost automatic. So there's your, like, to me, that's the, that's the first two guards that the coaches are going to pick. And so now you're down to two wild card spots, which could be guards or forwards. And there's just a ton of guys who are worthy, including a couple more guards that you and I

both picked in Tray Young and Damien Lillard. So I think that's probably the way the coaches will go. One other thing, and this is what I'll say, like, about Lamello. And we, me and Roger, have talked about this with Zion. I was looking at the ages, and Kate Cunningham and Lamella Bar are the same age right now, which is really interesting. And why it's interesting is, and I'll go back to the conversation that me and Rajah had

a couple of years ago about Zion is, when you get to a point as a player, you kind of become who you are. And the question always remains, Because you only have a certain amount of time to be a star player or be considered that or Elevading to that role. And it feels like LeBello, it's been injuries, but also we've kind of seen enough of a sample size that he doesn't elevate his teammates, whatever they are, or elevate his team

to a point where they can at least, you know, make an attempt to be maybe if they were like consistently, maybe like a 47 win team and an above expectation. then we could have a different conversation about Lamello, but he's starting to get to a point where it's like he is who he is at this point. And that's when I think about with Cade, who is now ascending. And Cade had the similar problems that Lamello was having, but it's kind of changing with a different framework. And maybe Lamello will change with a different framework.

But we're getting to the point, my point is we're getting to the point with Lamello is either he's going to be the is who he is guy or he's going to start elevating his team at some point. and he is now the former and not the latter. He is only 23. And like I think, you know, to give him some grace here, you know, there is the fact that, yeah, he's played for a pretty crappy franchise that hasn't put enough talents around him. But you can't put it entirely on the surrounding talent. You're supposed to as the star player and especially as a point guard to as the ball in his hands all the time.

You are supposed to make your teammates better. You are supposed to elevate guys. It doesn't mean you turn into a 50 win team overnight and that you can, you know, take a bunch of G-leaguers and suddenly, win, you know, 50 games. But like, you've got enough talent around you that you should at least be winning in the mid 30s to at least low 40s or something. Right. Like, you're supposed to elevate guys at least a little bit. Um, but he's only 23. And I think like when you get to like 26, 27, like we do get to a point with some guys in their careers where it's like, that guy just is who he is. You know, Leopard's not changing his spots, that kind of stuff where you're just

not expecting a guy's character or his playing style or habits to change. And he's, you know, that's change. I think Lamello's still young enough that whether it's the Hornets just getting the right guys around him and him maturing a little bit, or maybe him getting moved to a different franchise with a different hashtag culture. I don't mean the heat. I just mean anywhere. But going somewhere else where maybe things are a little more stable, where he's held accountable, like there's another version of Lamella. Like the dude is super talented. And like there's a version of held accountable his whole basketball career. Well, that's, and I think that's part of the issue.

But there's a, I'm just saying, Logan, like, I don't think that the future is set for him. I'm not writing him off at age 23. I think there is a, there's a possibility within the next two, three years, whether he's in Charlotte still, and they've put a better system or just infrastructure around him or whether he's somewhere else. There's a, there's a possibility of a better winning version of Lamello still in there, potentially. I'm not writing him off at 21. Take that Howard haters. We're going to take a quick break and it's mailbag time. Cliff, we got some mailback questions.

What up, fellas? What up? What up? What's going on, brother? Roger, man, you got a shout out of my birds, man. What's going on? I didn't hear no love from you really to start off the pie, bro. Hey, I'm conflicted, man, because I'm a huge chiefs fan.

But I do rock with the birds. Yeah, I'm excited, man. My Philly family is excited. So you know I got to ride with you guys, Cliff. But in like full disclosure, I rock with the chiefs too. There we go. All right, fair enough. All right, let's get through the first one.

I'm only using this one because he said Cliff, please consider. This dude is Orlando Johnson. Top of the morning, gents. So like Cliff, I'm also a Philadelphia native. Born in University City currently reside in Glendale, Arizona. Local media in my town apparently desperate to get rid of Bradley Bill, which is still surreal to me, especially since the sons who've never won anything have dismissed CP3 and seemingly look forward to do the same with Bradley Bill.

I'm proposing a trade of Embed for Bill and the sons throw in a few of those first rounders they just picked up. Embed helps Phoenix solve their NERC issue at center. The Sixers then get a pair Bradley Bill with Maxie and PG. This would make Maxi number one option. Sixers can lean into their athleticism and play at a faster pace. I strongly believe this move makes us more competitive and it begins the post-Juel error. What are your thoughts? Orlando, I really appreciate the question, but I don't think it's going to go the way you think on this answer in this one, brother.

Just from my face and Roger's face. You got a rare moment with all three of us agreed on something. I actually, if I wanted to contort this, contort myself, just to find a way to make this make sense before dismissing it outright, I will say there are serious questions about whether Joel Embed is ever going to be Joel and Beat again. And he did just sign a three year $193 million extension that tops out at $69 million in 2020, and Beal's contract ends two years sooner.

So there's a, if you squint, you might be able to talk yourself into like cap relief and like starting a new era. But no, no, no. The Sixers are not moving Joelle and B for Bradley B. Is there any hope for the Sixers, man? Jesus. What's going on with that? Just concentrate on your Eagles, Cliff. There we go. All right.

Happy times. Happy times with the birds, baby. Fly with fly. What do you think, raw? What do you think, raw? Oh, man. OJ, I appreciate it. We appreciate it, dude, for sure.

But, like, I'm negative. As far as hope for the Sixers, like, it's directly, it's going to be directly related to what Howard said. Like, will Joel Embed ever be Joel Embed again? And I don't know the answer to that. This trade would work if it was on 2K and you turn the injuries off. This would be amazing trade. Awesome. You turn injuries off that the Sixers are keeping him.

I'm just, I'm trying to, I'm trying to shoot some bail for my, for our guy here. Okay, I'm trying to shoot some. Also, I don't believe Maxie, like if you put, say if you put Bradley Bill and you put Maxine into that number one slide, like, I'm not confident that Maxine is going to step into that road. And that's just me. I just, I don't know. I don't know. I haven't seen enough to, to, to make me believe that either. So on all fronts, I just think this isn't a bad deal for everybody, everybody involved.

No one likes this. Who says no, everybody. Next question is from C.J. Sosito. Hello, Logan, Raja, and Howard. I'm a huge fan of the pod, and you guys make my commute to work much more enjoyable. My question concerns pride in your home team. I'm a Miami boy shout out 305, Raja, who's going to see all three major Miami sports teams, heat dolphins and Marlins within the last year and a half in person at the respective stadiums. While not every game was great, seeing the dolphins get blown out Monday night football, without two are stung. Miami, the Marlins are horrible. It still made me feel a real sense of

ride in my city and my respective teams. I know you guys are usually a little bit more objective and divorce from fandom in sports, but is there a specific moment or game that made you guys feel something? Whether it's watching a team you love in person or on TV. I'm curious to hear you guys' stories. Thanks for always being real ones, CJ.

Dali, CJ. This shit will maybe have a thug tear, right? Dahlia. I'll go first. Since this is a 305 question. I can't remember what year it was, but it was a young me in the Orange Bowl, Florida State,

kicked it to Tmeric Vanover, I think, to open the game, and he took it back. He housed the opening kickoff, and all the air was sucked out of the Orange Bowl. Like, opening kickoff. This was an ABC, like noon game is, like 100 degrees out. This thing was packed, this rickety-ass stadium, and we were in there acting a little.

fool and all the air sucked out immediately. And the canes just went about like systematically dismantling the Florida State Seminoles. I think I think I'm right, guys. I think I'm right because there's so many Florida State Miami games, but we won that damn game and it was it was magical. The other one was the Brock Berlin hurricane game. Brock Berlin was a former Florida gator came down to play for the Canes. We were in there acting the fool again.

and the Cairns were down like Brock Berlin was terrible in the first half. We were down, I don't know, 20 some in the fourth quarter. I walked out of the shit. I walked out. And in the cab on the way home, Cindy and I were like, wait a minute. Like we're listening to 560 WQA.m. And Brock Berlin throwing touchdowns. We doubled that shit back.

Came back. Came back. We couldn't get back in, but we partied in the parking lot after the game was over. This is like, this is like, Heat fans that won here in the finals when they all left. That's how we do. That's how we do, Howard. If you're sticking up to Joey, we ain't got to be there to see it.

So those are my two. Those are my two. I'm curious for how. That's fire Howard. That's fire. Fire, Roger. That is fire. Howard. I'm really curious to hear your thing because you for everybody that doesn't know Howard, he is very anti-like

fan at this point. I am not a person that does fandom and da-da-da-da-da- I am a respected Hall of a I'm anti being a fan. Okay. So, like when you were a fan at one point in time,

I'm curious to see what the story is like of Howard just like screaming and yelling. Yeah. Dude, you're going to hate this. You're just like, just like brace yourself, Logan. You're going to hate this because it involves the 49ers and you're a raider guy.

There we go. There we go. He's already pissed off. Oh, just put on the raider hat. No, listen, like nobody gets into this business. You don't become a sports writer for your career without having been a fan first. And I think you'll find various results, right? Like, I do have friends in this business who are around my age who have held onto their

fandom. But if they're covering the NBA, they've held on to like their Yankee fandom or they've held on to their like their Dolphins fandom or whatever. But they, but like you can't cover this. I shouldn't say you can't. We live in different times. There are a lot of people covering the sport now who still consider themselves or still are fans. I believe in being divorced from that. I absolutely do. And it also just happened naturally. I didn't just wake up one day and decide I'm cutting it off. It's like it just the fandom part of it, my emotional attachment to teams just died long ago. And when you're growing up, the warriors were ass.

And the warriors, yeah, exactly. So I grew up in San Jose in the 70s and 80s. The warriors were way down the list. Raiders, Niners, Giants, A's all ahead of them in terms of interest, fandom, people wearing jerseys, whatever. So it's the, but it's the Niners. I can trace my entire career back to the catch. Capital T, capital C on the catch. Go look it up on YouTube kids if you don't know what I'm talking about. Joe Montana to Dwight Clark, 1982 NFC championship game against the Dallas Cowboys. That's like my origin story moment, right?

Like that's, I'm at a party with a bunch of friends like a watch party, right? We're watching the NFC championship game. I'm 13 years old, do the math. And Montana to Clark, like that's it. like sparks are going off in my fucking brain. Like this is like the moment where like just being like a casual sports fan turned into like insanity. And, you know, I grew up in San Jose, the San Jose Mercury News is on my on our table every morning. I'm devouring the sports section because of the Niners.

I'm devouring now the newspaper becoming like eventually my path to becoming a journalist, period, my interest in newspapers. It's all because of the catch. It's all because of Montana to Clark. And that season, they win the Super Bowl, the first of. five. And that was it, man. The 80s were like the Niners were my team. They were a dynasty. And like to the extent that I could still relate to fans now. And yes, I'm pretty distanced from it. Like I know like the high highs and the low lows. Like Jim Burt knocking Joe Montana out,

like out cold in, I think it was NFC championship game at like 91. Like, like there were some moments, man that like just absolutely crushed my crush my soul like and i'm glad i don't deal with that anymore i'm glad i don't have like i get like oh you're not a fan you don't get the high high i'm glad i don't have the low lows or they're being pissed off and throwing shit at the tv and then like walking out on a sunday afternoon and being like all pissed off the rest of the day i don't have that anymore it's fine i'm good with it but yeah shout out to joe montana dway clark rest of peace dwight clark rest of peace dwight clark i remember my uh my family i have cousins that lived in uh in a bayview around that time where they still live in Bayview, but they were at the catch game and they

talk about it all the time. Wow. Can I add one real quick thing? One quick little sentimental note. Okay. I got to cover a couple of Niners games when I was working for the Davis Enterprise, tiny ass small town daily that where I started my career. Shout out to the Davis Enterprise.

I got to cover a few Niner games. And the last one that I got to cover and I knew it might be a long time if ever that I'd be back there at Candlestick where they were still playing. When I walked to the media parking lot, I made sure to walk through the back end of the end zone where Dwight Clark caught that pass. That was just like my little moment. No doubt. That's what so.

Mine is the 2003 AFC championship game at the Oakland Coliseum. The last time the Raiders won a playoff game in Oakland when they went to the Super Bowl, it was popping. I just remember it being so close. I was eight years old and I was or no I think I was nine years old and I remember it being so cold me and my mom went and we went from Richmond to Oakland and it was freezing and the Raiders went to the Super Bowl or were on their way to the Super Bowl and I got to see it and I think it was something that I took for granted so back to your first question like to my man I forgot I forgot your

name but AJ right all right to CJ I would just say that to say like Like, it don't matter if your team sucks or not. Honestly, as long as they're there, because my teams aren't there anymore. I don't have that. You know, I got to, I got to, like, see Howard's Niners, like, flourish all the time. You know, I don't got really, like, an attachment, you know, it sucks. So, and I wish I did. That's why I still like the writers because, like, it's the only, like, attachment that I have into my city.

So, yeah, appreciate it. Anyways, hate to leave on a somber note, but that's been another edition of real ones, huh? Tuesday vibes. Way to bring it home. You know, the vibes. We'll see you guys on Friday. Friday vibes me and Roger. All the shits we will talk to you really soon.

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