The Ringer NBA Show - Jimmy Butler Sends the Bucks Home (Again), the Knicks Bully the Cavs, and More From Wednesday's Playoff Slate | Group Chat

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos react to all the craziness that happened during Wednesday night's games, starting with Jimmy Butler and the Miami Heat coming back again against the Milwaukee Bucks to close out the series in five games. They discuss another Jimmy Butler legacy game, the future of Mike Budenholzer, and more. Then they move on to the Warriors winning their biggest road game of the year to take a 3-2 series lead. They discuss the big games some of the role players for the Warriors had, Draymond's role off the bench, and the impact of De'Aaron Fox's injury (34:36). After that, they discuss the Knicks closing out the Cavs in five games by talking about how impressive the Knicks were, how disappointing the Cavs were, where the Cavs go from here, and a brief look ahead to the Knicks' match up with the Heat in the second round (41:20). They wrap up with the Grizzlies dominating the second half and making the series 3-2 (1:01:15). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Austin Gayle and Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey, one of the hosts of the Prestige TV podcast. HBO's Barry is back for a fourth and final season, and that means I'll be back recapping the show with co-creator and star Bill Hater to dive deep on the themes, scenes, and major moments in the series. Bill will provide insight into how every episode was made and why it's ending. New Prestige TV Barry recaps will go live every Sunday night when the episode ends, so make sure you're subscribed to the Prestige TV podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And welcome to Group Chat.

I am Justin Barry. And oh my God, what just happened? Joining me to break down all his action, play off Rob Mahoney, playoff Big Waze. Rob, have you caught your breath yet? You know, I'm just getting there. I'm just really glad that none of us on this podcast pick the bucks to win the NBA finals this year.

We would never do such a thing. Listen, I can't remember the last time I was legitimately shocked. As you guys know, like, I'm pretty even killed. Some might even say, a little bit dead inside. Like, Lin Sanity did a little sudden for me. I'll be honest.

Like Ray Allen, Miami Heat NBA final shot, of course. But holy shit, the bucks just absolutely laying the biggest egg, losing the series to the Heat 3-1 in a game that they were up 16,

16 in the fourth quarter and they still somehow lost this game. Wise. I mean, what the hell? Man, I'm sitting here. watching this game all alone on my couch and my crib and, you know,

no cat. No cat. The cat is actually visiting family members. We can get into that at some other point. I think we should. Yeah. I have questions, but continue. The boxer up 16 to start to fourth.

Bud is like, I'm playing my big dogs to start because I want to put this thing away. Spoh is like, go ahead. I'm letting Jimmy rest. When he comes back, he comes back and we'll see what happens. And instead of expanding upon the lead or simply holding serve, they gave up eight points. They started the fourth quarter, one of 13 from the field. And all of this stuff is predictable as crappy as bucks,

offensive half court playoff basketball. Yannis isolating at. the top of the key, dribble, dribble, pull up long twos from Janice onto Tocompo, drew Holiday, just terrible dribbling, turning the ball over, terrible shot selection. And then, you know, just overall, just a stilted offense. There's no movement. There's no creativity. The defense never has to guess what's going on.

They're just loading up on these guys. And, you know, whatever. I'm not going to sit here and beat my chest about the bucks because, I picked the Knicks to losing five. But I'm just going to say this about the... I'll say this about the bucks, right? Like, I was very skeptical of what they would do in this year's playoffs because historically, their offense when they've needed it,

in big moments, has failed them, specifically in the half court against said defenses. And today, they lost this game in that exact way. Yeah, they totally lost the plot in ways that were predictable and familiar, as you're saying, was in ways that honestly were just really pain. to watch. This was just an awful close to this game for Janus in particular who

bricked a metric ton of free throws. So many so that at the end of regulation we had something I don't think I've ever seen before, a climactic jump ball. And he did not want the ball in his hands so much after that jump ball. He very nearly threw it

out of bounds. Do it out of bounds. Get to overtime, miss more free throws. And then just when the bucks finally seemed to be putting things together in the extra period, finally start getting some momentum. He fouls Max Truce on a three for absolutely no reason. And it's, it's tough because he started this game so well. Obviously, he's playing through injury.

Like, he's playing his heart out. But, was, you're right. Like, it was, this was just like blunt force offense down the stretch in ways that we've seen from the bucks before in ways that honestly I thought we had graduated from. Like, did we learn nothing from when they won the championship by making him the screener in those same situations? he's a finisher, he's not an initiator. So 6-18 upset in NBA history, 94 Nuggets, 99 Nix, 07 Warriors, 11 Grizzlies, 12, 76ers,

and now the 2023 Milwaukee Bucks who are a goddamn juggernaut in the regular season, and now fall to a team that had to play two play-in games. Not just one, but two. I mean, I guess you could asterisk this because Janus got hurt in the first game, didn't play two games. But he was available the next two. So I just have to wonder, why, is this a bigger just fuck up

even than the previous loss from the bucks to the heat in the bubble? Justin, this, the Miami Heat started Kevin Love tonight. This guy is a scrap heap guy. He was great. A scrap heap guy from the freaking calves who just lost in the first round in five games,

they scrapped his ass. that team that just got dominated in the first round of the playoffs. Scrap he got, Gabe Vincent, just a bunch of nobodies. I'm looking at the heat lineup to start this game, and I'm just like, how can it be possible that Milwaukee would lose to this team? You know, I remember we were like, oh, man, it's too bad. Tyler Hero went down because the heat, they might have had something. Like, the Bucks have everybody, and yes, Janus might not be himself,

listen, pretty much everybody that I, analysts that I'm, that I have consumed their work, and they're like, yo, you know, I think the buck should, they would be even money, if not favored, to win this series, even without Yonnas. And this guy comes back, season on the line, and they lose both of these games in embarrassing fashion. And of course, I know you guys are going to get into this.

The head coach, what the hey. So we just get into the bud, discussion here because there's probably, I think there's a lot to pick apart here. I mean, we can get into whether or not like the bucks were just not built for these type of situations or the heat are particularly built for this. But I do think probably we need to start with Bud. Pockets the one time out in regulation for some reason, even after Jimmy makes the miracle alley where he's just like somehow gets the ball for one over Pat Conantin and Drew and then makes the shot.

He absolutely committed an offensive foul. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. But no one's calling that. Yeah. But it's just like there was no like sense of what was going on on offense. There was no creativity. It was the typical bud stuff. But it was almost like compounded by it felt like he in fact was in shock and didn't

know what to do out there to combat what was happening. Yeah, the timeout thing is interesting because philosophically speaking, I see the merits in the let him go, right? Element of surprise, you have Janus, you know, waning seconds on the clock. Let's see if we can make something happen. In theory, I get it. In practice, your team has just run up dry possession

after dry possession trying to improvise, trying to make this spacing work, trying to create just these kinds of advantages. Like, those decisions, the decision like call timeout or not in a crucial moment at the end of a game, is predicated on like, do you trust your team to execute in this moment? and the Bucks, champions though they may be,

did nothing in this fourth quarter and overtime to suggest you should trust them with that responsibility. You should stop that moment and draw something up. Rob, they went one for 13 against a team that was playing Kevin Love and Gabe Vincent together for large stretches of the fourth quarter. Kevin Love, we hear all the time about the certain type of guys who can be played off the court in a huge playoff series because of their alleged defensive shortcomings.

Unless you're playing the Bucks. Because if you got guys with defensive shortcomings, it's completely fine. The Bucks will not exploit their weaknesses. They will not attack these guys. It'll be great. They'll attack Bama out of bio on isolation post-ups. They'll attack Jimmy Butler on isolation, you know, dribble drives.

They will do nothing against Kevin Love and the gay Vincent's and all these other. got it's it's insane that you would think this group that you just watch squander a 16 point fourth quarter lead against the ninth seed in the eastern conference that they would just not they're just going to figure it out because they just been figuring everything out well i do want to give the heat a little bit of credit here because something happens in the middle of every fourth quarter where this team just like all of a sudden get superpowers like i had written down like, man, if Jimmy just had a little bit more help in this game, probably could have won this one.

And this is when the bucks were up big, seeming like Milwaukee was going to cruise to another win here. And then all of a sudden, Bam out of Bile becomes Magic Johnson hitting Jimmy Butler off a short roll and getting him looks at the basket. And then, like, Max Struz drawing like fouls for three and clutch time when they needed Kyle Lowry. I mean, God forbid Kyle Lowry gives you much. But like, you know, he was chipping in there as well. And it's just like every 50-50 ball all of a sudden becomes Jimmy Butler's. It's like this was also a perfect storm situation

where this is the exact team you do not want to face when you're a little disjointed and a little on edge in these situations. Yeah, but this is the storm that the heat create, right? Like those are not accidents. Those are occurrences that happen almost every game. I'm glad you brought up the BAM thing because that's a perfect example of what the heat do.

The Bucks had BAM in mind jail for three quarters of this game. He was in his head. He could not finish over Brooke Lopez. He was bricking every short and mid-range jumper he took. The heat took him out of those situations, and they moved him all the way to the weak side. And they used him as like an outlet, right?

Like, we're going to kick the ball to you. You're going to run a little hand off with Duncan Robinson. We'll see if we can get something. That didn't really work that well. So then they had him bring up the ball and literally be the point guard, be the trigger man. And we saw Butler rather than have to create an ISO every trip down the floor, all of a sudden, he's jukeing and cutting.

and trying to lose Drew Holiday that way. He's sneaking backdoor. You're getting your best player, backdoor cuts all of a sudden. I thought that put the Bucks defense in some positions they weren't really expecting, not to mention the fact that then it opens up BAM to crash the offensive glass,

and he came up with two huge put-back dunks in overtime, right? That's all Eric Spolstra. That's him repositioning the floor. That's him putting BAM in a different space. It's BAM being a skilled big, being a versatile player who can do different kinds of things. that's Miami Heat basketball, right? That's why they are advancing

and ultimately the bucks are not. Imagine a coach coaching. Who could imagine that? A coach not just doing the exact same thing that he does every single game against every single opponent. And like, all of this shit is just so, we've repeated this same stuff over and over.

Tibbs, he never wants to, Tim, sorry, Tibbs is actually making adjustments. But he never wants to make an adjustment. He's just going to do his thing. Justin's telling me no, he loves math. He's going to play the math, blah, blah, blah. I'm watching, and I keep bringing up Gabe Vincent, because this dude had a monster freaking game.

Like, he had a monster game where he's coming off, he's initiating offense, coming off for the picking roll. He's like, all right, Brooke Lopez is going to stay within five feet of the basket. I'm going to walk into wide open 16 footers because I'm an NBA player. Like, I can make that shot at Will. And he made a bunch of those walking into shots.

And at no point that the buck say, all right, maybe we switch it. Maybe we, maybe let's see Gabe Vincent drive one of our guys, our bigs off the dribble. Where he's just like, oh, you're playing me too close. I'm going to take it all the way to basket. Let's see him do that one time. Maybe we trap the ball one time. Maybe we bring the guy to the level. Maybe we try something different besides.

The exact same thing every single time up the floor, bro. The heat took 110 shots in this game. That's unreal. I have never seen that in my entire life. I'm sure it's happened one time, but just the extra possessions that they have. And they fired up 45 threes just to show you like what Spolstra can do. Like he is going to lean into your one sore spot and just,

keep hitting it and hitting it and hitting it. And that's basically the recipe for this heat success here. It was Jimmy Butler playing out of his mind, playing like no one we've really seen. Even like peak LeBron, all these guys, he was just like at that level for this entire season. And then they just fucking barraged with threes

with pretty adequate three point shooters, we should mention. Like typically the bucks shooting teams out of games. But Spoh just had the right thing in order to lean on them and eventually the bucks fell over. Rob, I do want to ask here, because this isn't the first time the Bucks have gotten into this situation. Like, what is it about them where this team could be such a machine during the regular season, but they find themselves in this situation in the playoffs?

Is the fact that Bud is so robotic at times and so beholden to what he believes in? Is it the fact that in Clutch time situations, you can't turn to like a Jimmy type isolation score? is Janus or kind of putting him in a position that he probably shouldn't be in? Like, what do you think it is? I think it's a combination of stuff, right? It is the dogma, which is a very real thing with the Bucks. It is something as simple as like, okay, we rag on their offense and deservedly so. They just kind of lost their spacing over the course of this game, right?

Like they had guys like West Matthews out there who were just like not really being guarded, you know? This game ended with the ball in Grayson Allen's hands, right? Like these are some of the situations. that you're being put in by the fact that the heat know how to shrink that space. They know how to crowd your angles. They know how to deny your entry passes

into Janus or, I mean, they didn't even really try to post up Brooke Lopez down the stretch at all, despite the fact that he was being guarded by much smaller players. That was an option that was probably available to them. But the spacing inhibits that, right? So there's some complications with teams like the heat, knowing where your pressure points are.

Knowing that if we just, like, if we assert a little bit of pressure here, you're going to fall back on your worst tendencies, which is very gummy offense, which is very stringent, specific defense in which we play to our system, and that's about it. Miami is great at capitalizing on those things. Not every team is, but clearly if you have even like one superstar player and Jimmy Butler is one of the best in terms of performing in these situations, and just a dynamic enough roster, you can make this kind of upset happen with Milwaukee. Justin, so how many times we're watching Steph play or

We're watching Dane play or we're watching, you know, any number of superstars, Luca play where teams decide, yo, he has to get, we got to make him get rid of the ball somehow. We're going to force him to do something else. We're going to force somebody else to initiate. We're going to force, you know, we're going to make it so that Kevin Love is catching the ball at 18 feet. He has to come up with a nice play on 4 and 3. We're going to force something else. They did not do that once.

They said we're going to guard Jimmy Butler, who's the best player since Jordan, on an island at all times, no matter what. It doesn't matter how much he destroys us. It doesn't matter how much he yells at Drew Holiday and tells him, you can't guard me and just utterly pants as this dude in front of, you know, tens of thousands of people and millions of people watching at home. Well, it was NBA TV. Forget it. But, like, you know what I mean? God. You know what I mean?

Like, at no point did anybody. try something different, man. Like, they just would not do it. And on offense, I think the thing about the offense, though, that I'll cut them some slack, before they got Drew Holiday, I remember everybody was, like, pining for Chris Paul because there was this idea that they needed

some kind of table setter. They ended up winning the championship, which one's face of the competition was trash. We can say that. They ended up winning the championship, and we got rid of that entire, notion. We literally got rid of the idea that the bucks need table setting. We was like, no, they're good. They're good on table setting. And then when we watched it tonight, to me,

their best offense was Middleton picking rolls. Yeah. Because they got to honor him his pull-up. And he has some level of presence with the ball and an ability to see the floor. At least, Drew Holley, got none of that. Yonis, like, you know, I think they tried to go when Kevin Love was guarding Brooke Lopez. They tried to do that pick and roll. And they got some decent stuff out of that. But they just couldn't get organized at all.

Do you fire, bud? You got to think about it, right? Oh, boy. I mean, this was a meltdown, right? I think, Justin, you're right. I think there will be people who will look at this series as a bit of an outlier given Janus's injury at the beginning of it. I don't really see it that way.

I do think that even if Janus had been in limited form or played only a couple of these games, I think they had enough to win. And not only did they not win, but when Janus came back, they flamed out like this. Their team is way better than the heats. Did you hear that though?

That was Rob talking around the fact that I think he wants to fire Bud. I'm not firing anybody. I'm not firing anybody, but But you can see it. If you want to say Is coaching in part responsible for why the Bucks lost this game in this series?

I think you can absolutely make that argument and I think it's fair. I think there's other factors too, but he did not help their case. I think they need a new voice. They needed a new voice in there. Nick Nurse just left the Raptors after winning coach of the year

and also winning a title. It's a rare occurrence. I think it's only happened four or five times. I mean, it's also rare when a coach wins coach of the year and wins a title because only so many coaches have won titles. Buck's right up there. A butt is right up there with that. And it would be an outlier situation, especially considering the regular season that they have. But man, just like the boom and busts of this team where they could just look so goddamn solid,

absolute juggernauts in the regular season. And then they just get toppled over just by circumstances, coaches, just like one player, just being the biggest ball player in the absolute universe. I don't know, man. I think you got to at least think long and hard about it. You do have to think long and hard about it. I do want to circle back, though,

because we're talking existentially about the bucks. And the reason we're talking existentially about the bucks is because Jimmy Butler is really fucking good, right? None of this happens. You know, all of Spos's, like, great maneuvers, all these like Kevin Love and Gabe Vincent shots are irrelevant.

if Jimmy Butler is not exactly this good. And not only that, his ability to finish over and around three of the best defenders at their positions in the league in Drew and Janice and Brooke Lopez, unbelievable. Like his ability to maneuver, to create space,

to create angles to elongate and finish in those situations, I literally do not understand how he does it. And yet he just does it over and over and over again. I mean, what do you do if you're Drew Holiday? I honestly thought if you're zooming in on a possession it's like he's mostly doing a pretty good job like they threw West Matthews at him some in this game

it's like I think West Matthews is playing pretty good positional defense and then you look up Jimmy Buller has 42 points and you lose and your season is over you feel bad for a potential defensive player of the year that's what he does the people yeah he's beating these guys in every which way like you said the duckins the freaking pump fakes where he's just having guys jump,

pump faking guys out of their freaking shoes and gym socks. And then, you know, when he needs to, he seems to hit a huge mid-ranger at the most important moments. That three that he hit on the left side of the court, where else it's like, hold on, it was almost like a line drive, and he just nails it. And I'm just like, oh boy, here we go. And he's just, he is, dude, he is be wrong.

grading Drew Holiday the entire freaking time. It was ugly. Yeah, I was bad. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, Jimmy deserves all of his props, all of his flowers, man. As much as, you know, people say he's a slightly difficult guy to deal with at times, you know,

he ends up missing a decent chuck up the regular season. It feels like every single year. When the game's freaking count, this guy is unbelievable. In 2020, there were games where he was just as good, if not better than LeBron James in the NBA finals. They ultimately didn't have enough at the end, but they gave the Lakers everything that they could handle. And essentially, 2021, when he was hurt,

he was bad in the playoffs and the bucks, they got him. Outside of that, since he's been in Miami, he's been a complete maniac every single playoffs, every single one. It's remarkable. Really to bring it all home, the reason this game went to overtime in the first place, right? I think there were two seconds left.

Is that how much time was on the clock? Sideline out of bounds play for the heat. I think it was like 2.1 or something like that. There's a moment where the bucks are trying to decide, their bucks are up to at this stage, do we put Brooke Lopez on the floor? And they kind of bring him out there and they kind of yo-yo him back.

And the reason they do that is because they are, I assume, terrified of the three, right? They've been trying to shut down the threes all series and mostly failing. even just limiting the heat's attempts. They don't want to lose on those terms. They take Brooke Lopez out of there. So what happens?

You get a lob to Jimmy Butler at the rim that is not him finishing at the rim, but catching it reclining backwards and somehow finishing that play. Right? It's the whole series in microcosm right there. We're so scared of what the heat can do at three that we're going to end up letting this amazing player

make an amazing play. 38 points per game. 60% shooting from the floor. 45% from 3% from a bad 3 point shooter. He typically hits 1-a-3 in the regular season. Honestly, 45 sounds low. Yeah.

I just assume they're going in. I've never seen anything like this. Like we've seen players... Jimmy Brothers is a good 3-point shooter, y'all. He does this every year, though. Like, we've seen this from him before. Yeah, it's like he almost evolves a separate limb that allows him to now be a good three-point shooter,

a willing and good three-point shooter. I've never seen anything like this. Like, we've been doing this a very long time. We've seen big performances. I've never seen a player go from good player to absolutely fucking elite with the bullet, one. And then carrying this team of, let's be honest, riff-raft,

just guys that they picked up off the scrap eat, and turned into NBA players and carry them to a series victory. Not only that, a 4-1 series victory over the best team in the NBA, potentially. Well, that riffraff in this game, you know, Jimmy Butler, for everything he did,

for everything we just said about him, his minutes on the floor, the Bucks won by 10 points. The riffraff won, you know? Like, they did their part, especially during that early fourth quarter stretch that was laid out. Dude, and there was a play in the overtime

on an in-bounds play where Jimmy set a screen for Cody Zeller. I think it was Cody Zeller. And everybody reacted so frantically to Jimmy running towards the ball, thinking he's trying to get the ball. Instead he sets a screen, sets up a wide open layup.

And he's guarding the hell out of people on the other end of the floor. It's just you can't say enough about what he did tonight. And like, Haywood Highsmith, like if I told you Sacramento or Golden State had to play this guy significant minutes in their series, you'd be like, man, that's tough. That's going to be hard minutes

for them to figure that out, right? If I told you, Duncan Robinson, who could not get on the floor this year, couldn't get on the floor. He's playing 15 minutes in this game. Again, the Kevin loves shit. Like, guys, he was a freaking buyout. Like, the buyout shit has gotten so bad

that we don't even do the crap where it's like, it's not fair when Brooklyn and the big market teams get all of these buyout guys. Everybody's realized, like, buyout guys stink. We shouldn't be caring about them We're talking about them Kev loves starting this game

And having an impact This is crazy It's all because of The gravity that Jimmy Butler Is creating around himself And just, you know, his sheer will, man I can't believe What I watch tonight

Well, we still got a little bit more On the bucks here Because we have to say goodbye to them They go off into the off season And there's a big decision awaiting them Janus is extension eligible. So independent of the bud conversation, I do feel like Janice probably has to think long and hard about his future here.

What do you guys think? Do you think he will sign this? And if he doesn't, how worried are you as the Bucks ownership? Because the other part of this is that they also have free agents to deal with. Chris Middleton, free agent, Brooke Lopez, free agent, the Nassis Antedacupo, free agent. So they either need to double down on... Yeah, get that bag, Nasi, you know?

He needs it to defund his podcast operation. Janus really needs to make a decision whether or not he wants to double down on this being his future. I mean, he could always ask out, he could get the bag, and then just figure it out later. But, like, I think it's a fair question. You have to ask, if you're honest,

like, is this the team that's going to carry me into the next phase of my career? because this is typically when guys try to ask out and find other guys to play with. I would be shocked if we get that outcome. I would be shocked by him asking out.

It would be the start of potentially something down the road maybe. I feel you. I mean, I think the outcome that probably makes the most sense for Janus is play out your current contract. And you have your option, your ability to hit the open market in 2025 if you want to play it out, see how things change.

Obviously, he has a lot of of input in that organization in the future it takes. That's not something you just gloss over, right? Like this is home for him, his NBA home, the place where he won a championship. These are the guys he wanted to be a championship with, the coach he wanted to be a championship with. We'll see how much that matters to him and matters to the bucks. Like, I don't even think that's sentimental necessarily, right?

Like there are bonds forged in those things that do matter. And we're going to see how much they matter to Milwaukee. Yeah, and I wonder if he'll try to time his join up with the new, CBA and, you know, even though I heard they're doing smoothing with the cap, it's going to be a significant bump and how much guys can make after this new money gets tabulated. So you wonder if he keeps that in mind when he's trying to figure out whatever his next deal is or if he's going to hit free agency. I mean, as embarrassing as it is, like, they had the best record in the league.

And I hate doing this trope because I see it all the time. And, like, every time I see people talking about it's like, it feels like, it feels like, like the regular season is completely irrelevant, but I mean, you can't say that the team that they put around him is not talented and good and capable of winning. There's a, I mean, this seems kind of obvious to say this, but there's a version of the series

where the Bucks actually win it and, like, actually go to the conference finals, right? Like, there's a version of the NBA playoffs this year where that happens realistically. Again, they were the number one seed overall in the NBA this year. So I don't know that he could say like, oh, my situation is dire here. No.

He seems to have a close relationship with the organization. He seems to really like being in Milwaukee. He doesn't seem to care about the stuff that, quite frankly, our American guys do. He seems to be motivated by different things than those guys. So I wouldn't be too worried, man. I wouldn't be too panicked. Yeah, we're just not here if the heat win their playing game against the Hawks, right? like history is

rewritten because the heat couldn't take care of their business in that name. I'm just saying like that's how crazy this stuff is sometimes. Oh my God. Did they punt that game in order to get this matchup?

That's the real galaxy brain right there. Yeah, I mean, listen, it doesn't help that the heat were reported suitor for Janus when he came up on his previous contract. That doesn't help. I mean, if you're him, I think you have to think long and hard

about this. I agree with Wads. I think you probably, want to play this out to see if you could rebound from this. But just like the boom and bust of this again, like to win a title, obviously it's going to stick with them and it's going to matter to him long term, but to get bounced twice by a guy like Jimmy to look around your team and not see that guy and say that potentially could be the route to stacking more titles. I mean, it happens to guys all the time. And at a certain point, I think you have to wonder, like, is sentimentality like,

is it too much? Is it sentimentality and not something real that I can move forward? Because these guys are also older. We should mention like Brooke Lopez in his 30s, Middleton in his 30s, Drew Holiday. So independent of all of this, there are reasons why you might want to target a younger player in order to glom onto or team up with in order to figure something else out. I know this sounds like fantasy basketball. Jimmy's not a younger player, but I hear what you're saying. And, you know, if we want to do. He's ageless. participate in reckless rumor mongering. Janice wasn't feeling Middleton's extended stretch of rehab

and, you know, coming back from his injury. That was a lot of the scuttle butt earlier in the season coming out of Milwaukee, yes, that Janice was just a little, just a little like, come on, hurry up, kid. Like, what are we doing here? I'm doing all of this by myself. I got a free. He led the league in you.

usage this year. You know, this is after we all understood and recognized that Janus was better as a finisher and not ultimately the be all and end all of an offense, right? And so, you know, there was a little smoke there. But again, like he feels like he has a different makeup, man, than most of the guys that we talk about when we're talking about this stuff. And, and again, if I was Milwaukee, I wouldn't be too, too concerned yet. I do want to talk about the Middleton part, though.

Not necessarily the rumor, but his state on this team in general, right? He's in an interesting place. Clearly a player is getting older, as you said, coming back from a lot of injury this season, instrumental to their offense in this game, right? If they had won, he would be one of the principal reasons why. But also, like, he were not shy about the fact that Jimmy Butler was, like, targeting him defensively. They were pulling Chris into the pick and roll. going at him, and Middleton couldn't stay in front of that.

And when you have a player like that at this stage in his career, who's meant this much to the franchise in free agency this summer, I mean, I would think, and honestly I would hope that they are able to bring him back, but those numbers can get tricky very quickly for a player like Middleton, right? Aging veterans who may or may not be a critical part of your future, those are the hardest players to price in the NBA. What's a fair number for Chris Middleton, all things considered. 35?

I mean, his agent's going to ask for a max, and I don't think he's wrong for doing so, because they're over a barrel with the bucks. Like Drew Holliday wasn't a max player probably where you wouldn't think about him when he was traded to the bucks. He got the max because the bucks had no other recourse. The bucks have nothing to build this team outside of just bringing back their core and supplementing it with guys. like Ingalls and some of these other guys they pick up.

Like this is their team. Like they have no draft picks. They just have to roll it back and just assume that like this was a blip and not just. Contract for the dude I watched tonight. He's already on one. Yeah. So I guess. I'm sure we'll talk about this one or 50 times over the next couple of months.

Let's flip to the other game at night, which hopefully people watched. I mean, it was tough to keep track of all these with two games going at once all the time. The war, it just so happened that two of the most. exciting teams in the NBA played yet another close matchup, Warriors 123 Kings 116. Rob, what's your takeaway from this one? We'll start there. I mean, the Warriors get a signature warrior-style road win. Like, we would expect them to do in most seasons, but maybe not this one. And so maybe there is some hope in that of this being the Warriors team, the championship

core, that given the players on the roster, you would expect them to be. there are a couple kind of asterisk on that. One, you may not expect Draymond Green to be a prominent score featured finishing layups, especially contested ones, and yet he seemed to finish about everything in this game, even stuff with Sabonis right in his face. Otherwise, you got signature clay moments,

kind of sustaining them through some tough moments. You got Steph finishing incredibly well, weaving his way through the King's defense. Andrew Wiggins, honestly, I know we've talked about him a lot, and the swing potential that he was going to have over Golden State season,

his ability to be rock solid in these games, and he delivered some of the biggest shots in crunch time. I mean, there's nothing bigger than that as far as saving a championship defense. This just felt like a team in the Warriors that had

a couple more answers, a couple more moves. It was close throughout. It's hard to make like a big takeaway from that, but if there is one, it feels like this established dynastic team against this fun, plucky, energetic one

that, like, just kind of hit a wall and kind of hit, you know, Deeran Fox's finger against it. I just feel bad because I was holding the line all season long. Like, guys, it's the Warriors. They won the championship last year. Like, they're going to be fine. If all their guys play in the playoffs, they're going to be fine.

Big shot makers. They execute down the stretch, even though they didn't in game four. They almost choke down the stretch in game four. But you know what I mean? Like, they make the big plays, timely plays. Like, that last shot that Wigginsid, when things were getting a little tense, it's like he had enough space to get a nice running room against the scrambling defense.

And he made a pretty, that's a pretty tough shot, you know, basically a long sort of paint shot. And they just do this. And, you know, towards the end of the season, I was like, oh, my God, I've given up. I can't, I can't watch another road loss and think these guys are going to. going to do anything. And then of course, they go down 02 and everybody's just like, wow, is this how it ends? But, you know, inevitably they're going to end up winning this thing for straight. If you've watched any of the Lakers and Memphis series, I don't know how you watch either one of those teams play and think they got anything for this Warriors group

or even if the Kings, if they're able to turn this around. I think those two teams look toast to me. They just look at the Lakers. shot at moments. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But yeah, I just think the Warriors, you know, they're just showing their championship medal, man,

in these close games, you just have absolutely no doubt that they're going to pull it out. When Clay Thompson gets a shot off, any shot off, in a game like this, you think it's going in. And, you know, they find just enough defense at just the right moments. They find the performances like Draymond, and they stitch this thing together

and they just move on. I should really know better, but even after all these years, Clay is just the king of these possessions where when he catches the ball and starts dribbling, I'm like, eh, I don't know.

I don't know about this. It seems like a bad idea. And then inevitably, ends with an amazing, like, you know, either step into or sidestep three, contest it or not, any situation,

any time on the clock, doesn't matter. It's Clay Thompson. And they just have so many guys who deliver in exactly that kind of, kind of way. I know. Watching them and watching Jimmy and watching Devin Booker and what he's been doing in that series, it's just a reminder that like the most audacious shot makers who can hit with people draped all over them are just going to be the most valuable at this time of year.

And as much as we want to pick apart all the nuances of this like we love to do on this podcast, that makes a difference. And tonight, one of those shot makers was one Draymond Green who scored 21 points somehow. Now, first time, according to our producer, Ben Cruz, since Christmas Day, 2019, Ben Shremont, Rob. Are you ready for the revolution? I ask you. Six men of the year, you know? Andre Aguadala couldn't win it, but maybe Draymond could.

Maybe it's time. Let's get a warrior the award. I guess that puts them in the race for finals MVP as well. I mean, why not? It is, the way that's working out is kind of funny. I mean, I have to say this was, although his stat line may not suggest it, I thought a pretty decent Jordan Pool game, but overall just the idea of benching Dremont for the sake of putting another guard in there

and specifically putting Jordan Pool in there, I can't even wrap my head around it, but it's worked. I wasn't into it. I certainly was like, oh, Kerr, what are you doing? Like, let's stop playing with our food here and play our best players as many minutes as possible, especially together. But, you know, two games in a row, you can't argue with the results here. Yeah, I mean, the Kings started hot in this one, eight for 12 and three. Unfortunately, they then hit two of their next 23.

You got to wonder if the injuries are starting to mount. I thought James Hamm of the King's beat put this nicely. De Bonas de Bonas cannot hold a beer and Deeran Fox cannot pop the top on a beer can and at a certain point

if they're driving so much of your offense like eventually the Warriors are just going to stomp on it and in top of you over well especially Fox right like this is a hard fought heavily contested game

you go into the fourth quarter you have the unanimous clutch player of the year in Deeran Fox and yet because he agitated that finger earlier in the game he just comes up Ofer on a lot of crucial attempts that in any other game he makes.

Like that, some of it is just circumstantial in that way, right? It comes down to Deere and Fox in a previous game when a play is already dead, accidentally getting his fingers swatted by Kavanaughan Looney, and that changes your season. Yeah. Was, it's your night tonight.

Do you want to move on to the Knicks and Cavs or Grizzlies and Lakers? I mean, it's obviously Knicks and Cavs. I got to say off the top, I owe Nick's Nation and the New York. York Nixon apology. I greatly dismissed them and underestimated what they could do. I was like, yeah, I get it. They were

probably the best or one of the best offensive rebound teams in the league. Why would they do it in this series, right? They were one of the best defensive teams in the league all year. No, but they're not going to be able to stop Donovan Mitchell. And surely, you know,

Darius Garland is going to be able to get his stuff off. Like, nah. And, you know, Evan Mowgli is a young up-and-comer. They're not going to be able to switch their little guys onto him. And, you know, Randall, even if he's been better at defense, he's still Julius Randall at the end of the day. And I'm just like, no, they're not going to be able to do this. And lo and behold, man, in this game, you know, the Cavs, their season is on the line, Justin.

And they are getting beaten and bruised on the board. Just worked. Mitchell Robinson, just absolutely destroyed on the board. They're the ones getting out in transition. They're the ones getting the second chance points, right? And of course, they're all still. Well, he got snumped from the All-Star team, but their All-Star.

Mitchell Robinson. Jalen Brunson, he absolutely controlled this entire game. He was everything Donovan Mitchell wasn't and needed to be for his team. When the Knicks had to try to find ways to score and a half court, they just gave it to Brunson. And he found the matchup that he liked. And he scored straight up.

And that was the difference in this game, man. I'm sorry. Like, Donovan Mitchell just could not beat people. He just couldn't. I don't know. Maybe something's going to come out that he had some kind of ailment that was stopping him. But this is a guy we've known to be getting downhill all the time. He had no shots at the basket whatsoever.

Everything's a three. Everything's a pull-up jump shot. There's nothing going towards the rim. And at certain points, I'm just like the Knicks pick and roll defense is shutting every single down, every single thing down at the route. What are you supposed to do in that situation with your alleged superstar franchise level type of guy? Isolating beat a guy.

That's what Devin Booker's doing. That's what Jalen Brunson's doing. That's what Steph Curry's doing. Donovan Mitchell just couldn't do that. And so the version of this team that Rob and I thought were going to be a force to be reckoned winning in the playoffs. That version had an all-star

borderline superstar level player in Donovan Mitchell, and he was anything but that in this series. And the Knicks, God bless them, man. They played their advantages. They beat these guys up at every single turn. There's nothing fluky about this series

when they just killed these dudes. And we got to give it up to them for that. Yeah, I think what's most painful about this for the Cavs is knowing that in all of these games, the Knicks didn't really take them very seriously, right? And I don't mean that in the sense they didn't do their homework or like do the scout

or really game plan specifically to beat the Cavs. I mean they were not daunted at all by Cleveland's front court or really daunted by any cavalier on the court whatsoever. They did not honor any non-shooter standing in the corner as any real threat or any kind of real spacing. It really was kind of an indebted. of the

cab's entire process that I don't think Mitchell Robinson was in foul trouble in a single game of this series to the point that as was outlined

I think he had the most dominant individual rebounding game in this game that I've ever seen before 11 offensive rebounds just a genuinely

embarrassing rebounding effort by the Cavs like Jared Allen is getting thrown around like a rag doll this is what your team is supposed to be

right? It's supposed to be the size inside and the dynamic guards. and over the course of the series, both of those things broke down. And that you're going to lose

if you can't even have one of those legs to stand on. As much as we wanted to dog the bucks for this performance tonight, that was a dog fight. You know, they were on the beach, they were shirtless, they were doing that thing

where they're playing offense and defense at the same time, like in Top Gun. Okay. The calves were ridiculous. This was embarrassing. They did have the one win in which Mitchell was absolutely magic,

But other than that, they just got their ass blown out. And I mean, we could probably talk about J.B. Baker staff's role in all of this. But the roster just was not suited to be in a series like this. They came into it with four quality players. And then every time they tried to go and find something else, there was nothing there. So at a certain point, you can't really blame the coaching staff when there are no adjustments to make because their roster doesn't allow for it. You know?

I also have to say, like, can we put a moratorium on the Evan Mobley hype train? Like, you know how you have the, on your phone? You could just, like, block an app and then we'll just cut you off after five minutes. How many months do we want to just not talk about Evan Mowgli? Like two, three. Very with the, with the Rob Mahoney friendly fire there. I don't even understand that. I'm sitting right here.

Jeez. It be your own people, Rob. God. Look, I mean, there's only so much you can say after the guy had, what, six points in this game? Like, Evan Mowley has to find ways to be a more relevant offensive player. And honestly, it's not even just. scoring, right? Part of the whole Donovan Mitchell conversation and was, I know this is a pain point for you

too, Donovan Mitchell's vision is not what you want in a lead guard, right? And the result of that, the Knicks trapped him and they were right to trap him. But then the Cavs have kind of like so, so secondary playmaking from guys like Mowgli and Allen, right? Like if he dumps the outlet pass to them, are they going to get it where it needs to go sometimes? And even if they do, the guy who they're passing to is some role player,

a pretty spotty role player in most instances, that then has to finish those plays. So the whole chain is broken. Bad vision into so, so secondary playmaking, into like a three-point shooter who can't really shoot, it's not a winnable formula. And so the fact that the Knicks created that formula,

I mean, it's expert stuff. Like, they manage the series perfectly. Tom Tibido, again, another one of the coaches who coach pretty much a perfect run here in terms of pressing all the right buttons. And moreover, This is a team that got very few good performances from Julius Randall in this series.

To the point they got benched in the fourth corner in game four, and he had to leave this game at halftime because he tweaked his ankle again. It looked to be in a lot of pain. We'll have to see what his availability is and how he's dealing with that. Didn't play in the second half. Didn't matter. Obie Toppin, you're starting the second half. Josh Hart, you're basically playing power forward now.

And we're going to win this game. We're going to close out a really good regular season team in the Cleveland Cavaliers that was not ready for this. Yeah. Cows left. They had opportunities at the end there. And the Nix just ripped it away from them. We should talk briefly, though, because it's going to be Nix Heat in the second round. Could we just stop for a second? It's going to be the New York Knickerbockers in their first second round appearance since 2013. Their second. Since Y2K. And the Miami Heat. But we'll see about Julius Randall. Obviously, Rob mentioned he has the ankle. We'll see if he's

he can go in the next one. Was, what do you think about this series? Do you think that he can continue rolling the success over into the next round? Man, I think the Knicks can stop them, right? Like, unlike Milwaukee, the Knicks will play real defense. And I think they have the type of pieces that they could throw at Jimmy. It's not just big bodies, but live bodies, right? Like, as much as we like

Brooke Lopez's defender, he's a plodding sort of guy. When they change those looks up and they send Mitchell Robinson his way, this guy is light on his feet, right? So much agility. I think they're going to just do much better at guarding. You know, take that as you made, listener.

I thought the bucks would do a good job of guarding Jimmy Butler. But again, apparently he's the best player since Jordan. Yeah, I just think it's going to be a really exciting series. The Garden, of course. They were up for this series. It's going up a level in the second round. I promise you. They're smelling the Eastern Conference.

Trust me, it's already happening. They're having visions of grandeur already. And so the Garden is going to be just an incredible atmosphere. And, you know, just before we get off of the Cavs series, it must be said, Cuban stinks at his job. Like, you suck at what you do, bro. Where are we? Oh, is this a Jalen Brunson?

Tash, is that we're doing? Jalen Brunson. The Mavs are tweeting Kyrie highlights tonight. Are you out of your freaking mind? Jalen Brunson was in your building and you lowballed the hell out of him, treated him like he was some chump. And now he's in the second round. and you fools couldn't even make the play it. Well, let me ask you a question off that.

Lord have mercy. So Brunson, I feel like his, risen to the level of his contract is appropriate now, especially after the series. I mean, it's pretty great. And the match is going to pay Kyrie more. So where is Brunson, though?

Is he on perennial all-star level at this point? Is he a notch below? Is he a notch above? Like, where would you put him in just like the star satellite, I guess. Tony Parker in his prime. Tony Parker.

Always. You added the Nick's accent there, too. The New York one came out. Tony Parker, you know, always knocking on the door on the All-Star team, and in the right year, he gets in. But always knocking on the door because his play is consistently excellent. And yeah, man, Brunson, ultimate team guy. That's the other part of this.

It's like he's the ultimate leader team guy. And you've replaced him with Kyrie after giving up a bunch of pigs for it. It's just like, this is just. It's unreal. It's unbelievable. Especially what Brunson showed in this series, I think, and really all season. He's the kind of guard who you can run a ton of offense through as we've seen. Just like creating an ISO, creating a pick and roll, every possible angle.

Just going to get into the lane. He's going to pivot. He's going to create space. He's so good with the floater with the touch. But he's also a guy who can attack really quickly off ball, right? Like if he's in the corner and he catches, he makes really fast moves. He drives into the teeth of defense. He doesn't have to be the driving superstar all the time in ways that let Julius Randall have,

you know, maybe an all-N-Ba season, like give him a lot of room to breathe over the course of the year. The fact that you're the MADS and you give that kind of player up is, I mean, it's been litigated that it's crazy, but it's crazy. But ultimately, it's the kind of. of thing that gets you through series like this one that makes you adaptable that makes you playoff viable not not just to the point like oh is this guy an all-star but we get in series and this was true when he was a maverick too and he's a he's a freaking punisher right he is hunting people down and scoring and winning games that's a different kind of player and and and yes and and the donovan Mitchell part again it needs to be mentioned two years in a row jaylon brunson snatches this man's

soul out of his heart, steps on it and kills him, buries this dude twice. That's what's got to be a heart-aaking experience for Cleveland fans. It's like, no, this guy has professional pride. I would have said coming into the season

that Donovan Mitchell's, if not the best, he's the second best shooting guard in the league, and Jalen Brunson is just chumping this guy, two playoff series in a row, both times as underdogs, can't make this stuff up, man.

Donovan Mitchell is going to spend the whole summer looking over his shoulder, wondering if he's about to get dragged into another Jalen Brunson pick and roll. Like, please, please God, keep me away from this guy. Who has the worst summer? Donovan Mitchell or Rudy Gobert?

Donovan Mitchell. Are you kidding me? Is this a bagels over baguettes sort of thing? Why you got to bring Rudy into this? You know, what did he do today? Listen, the thing about Rudy is like, y'all brought me in to play the position of a dude that's already here, right? It's like, I have a defined situation. I just got to rebound and play some defense.

And like, I can actually live up to the things that are being asked to me. Probably can't be defensive play of the year anymore. But I can be a really good, solid defensive player, get rebounds. Every now and again, hopefully make a wide open layup against a guy who's 5'11. and, you know, move on with my life. I don't think Donovan Mitchell has it in him to be what's asked of him. That team is cursed.

That jazz team. Quinn Snyder is out here, like trying to piece together the Treyhung, Trey Young Hawks. Like, someone protect Rudy Gay, man. Like, something bad is going to happen. I mean, Joe Ingalls got bounced today.

No one is safe. It's true. It's true. Maurice O'Neill, also gone in the first round. Nobody's safe. Let's say goodbye to Cleveland just quickly here. How does this team get better?

They have a mid-level exception. You mean mechanically or like what do they need to improve? Because I think we know what they need to improve. Is it everything? They need to figure out that three. They need to figure out that three. Obviously, I don't think there's any version of Mobley where he comes back and he's some incredible offensive player.

But he has to be better. He has to show improvement of something tangible on offense next year. Not that they're going to ask him to carry some major burden on that end of the floor, but they need to do that. And, you know, questions need to be asked about the two big pairing because that's the most heartbreaking thing about how disgustingly they played on the rebounding end, is that when you start two bigs and you play two bigs heavy minutes, that's supposed to be one of the benefits that teams can't just, you know, big dog,

you all over the place. And they got mauled on the boards playing two bigs. So you're getting no benefits spacing wise and all the things that teams accrue on offense as far as benefits when they don't use the two big tactic and none of it on defense. So yeah, they got to really maybe want to rethink that. Mobley needs to take a meaningful step toward being a full-time five. And a lot of that is body work, right? A lot of that is he just needs to be stronger.

and it's going to take time. No one is expecting it to happen immediately. That is his ultimate destiny. And you're going to try to put guys like Alan next to him in the meantime to get through regular seasons, to get through tough matchups, to make these kinds of things work. But we see the limitations of it, right? Like if they need to put more spacing around him, it's going to make him look more dynamic offensively.

It's going to make him a more effective finisher. But you got to have that kind of body where you can be a five in a game like this, where it can be you versus Mitchell Robinson and you're not. giving up this many offensive rebounds. I don't think we're a year away from that, though. Allen's a stopgap, not a solution in your guys' mind. Because they don't have many quality rotation players at all, and the means

they have some this offseason. It's going to be tough just to add players, let alone the right players. And it should be noted in this series when the four core guys have been on the floor, they've been pretty good, right? Even within these confines, even in losing games, like those four guys, those lines, those lineups have been good.

It's all the bench stuff, right? It's anytime you have to cobble together or anything else. So Allen's a stopgap and a, I would say he's like non-essential personnel is what he is. He's a very good player. No one is, you know, impugning Jared Allen or they can't be effective or he can't be really good in the right matchups

and things like that. This was not his series, clearly. He can be more effective than this. But if he's the piece that ultimately needs to be moved down the line, and again, I'm saying down the line because I don't think Evan Moby's ready for that, then that's something you have to at least consider. It's something that could get you potential wing help

if that's where you need to go. Justin, in an ideal world, right, Alan would be on the team and it'd be about matchup specifics, right? If the matchup called for Mobley at the 5 with a lot more just spacing around him because the matchup said, we're not going to get killed on the boards.

There's no threat for, you know, these huge offensive rebound burdens. Then, you know, we do that and we leave Jared Allen on the bench. and we keep it pushing that way. But as it stands right now, realistically, you cannot play Evan Mobley at the five. You just can't do it, right,

against any meaningful matchup. Like, I think back to Toronto in 2019 where they had surge and they had Mark Casol, right? Sometimes they would start them. Sometimes they would only start the one, right? It depended on who they were playing. But, again, one of those guys could legitimately play center for you. I don't think

Mobley is capable of playing full-time Real Deal Center for these guys yet. But I don't think it's not within him to get there, though. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they need wings in order to put him at the five because then they need to fill two spots instead of one. So it gets tricky, you know, and that's where the not having the resources really comes into play here. But, you know, yeah, if he turned into some sort of new version of Jared Jackson, maybe.

showed a little bit of signs tonight. I liked what Ica Coro did. He had some, you know, he had some moments where he was doing decent. You like that? He was doing decent. He was doing decent against Brunson. He made a couple of corner threes wide open, mind you. You know, he had some moments.

So maybe he does some offseason improvement. So a lot of this stuff is internal improvement. We haven't really even talked about Garland at all. I thought he was good. or decent enough. It called for him to be absolutely great like he was in the one game that they were able to win. But yeah, these guys can get better.

You know, they're young enough to get better, but you wonder if it's going to be enough to, you know, beat the freaking Knicks in the first round next year. The juggernaut Nix, you know? How are you supposed to beat this team? This is crazy. I'm honestly with you on Akora, though. I think for as much as the Cavs, clearly,

we've circled all season, there needs for this fifth guy there needs for someone who can be in that spot who can either shoot who can kind of assistant creation who can be a little bit more dynamic whatever you want defend wings all that stuff they also just need someone

who has what a coro has which is like a little bit of edge a little bit of bite someone who plays with a ton of energy they need that verve I thought as much as anything like his minutes were valuable for that reason listen Dylan Brooks is giving me

a free agent this summer I don't know if he heard Jesus Christ what did he choose tonight what do you want to go to that game now? Yeah, let's slip over there. All right. Grizzlies win this one in Memphis really shows some heart, unlike the calves that grizzly showed up for this one.

Jha had an awesome night, 31 points. Bain 33 points in this one. Rob, I liked the little bit of a small ball that the grizzlies flashed there. I don't think it's like a full-time solution, but, and I guess we should talk about the Luke Knard injury. It seemed like he provided some of the space in order to make that work. But, you know, Jod, Tyos Jones, Desmond Bain, Brooks, and Tillman or Darren Jackson, had some success tonight.

I don't know if that, what do you think that can carry over, I guess is the question? I mean, I do think Kennard is pretty important, right? Like, a lot of the reason the Grizzlies' efforts in this game worked in general is this was an immaculate Desmond Bain game. Like, his shooting opened up a lot of things. It really got, I think, their team confidence up when they started hitting a lot of three to the point that it carried into some of these lineups. But I do like those small ball

looks, right? You lose, you've already lost, I think, some of your identity as a Stephen Adams team, even as a Brandon Clark team, right? Like, those guys are not available to you. Let's try something different. And just as importantly, they kind of baited the Lakers into playing small two in ways that

I don't know that they can really do. Like, they played LeBron at the five some in this game. Let's just say LeBron is not rotating the way you want your backline guy to rotate at this particular moment in time. The Gris were just getting layups in those moments. So yeah, it's either like, if

that way, if the Lakers do try to match up with you, it's LeBron at the five, it's Rui Hachamur at the five, it's Wen and Gabriel at the five, who we saw just get cooked by Desmond Bain off the dribble a couple times in this game, could not stay in front of him. I like that dynamic for this series

from Memphis. I mean, not only does it create space and create lanes to the rim. And we saw they were throwing alley-oops to jaw off of set plays. That's the kind of space. that they had in this game. But I think it's just good for like their overall management of 48 minutes, right? Like we're going to have our Xavier-Talman time. We're going to have the time where we're crashing the glass and working inside.

But let's space it out. We have some of the best shooters in the world in this team too. Yeah. And the Lakers look like a team that was up 3-1, had an extremely quick turnaround. Their best guys are bruised up. LeBron and AD and LeBron. And God bless him, you know, in year 20. The fact that he would hold off a foot surgery,

just because there was the potential he might make the second round of the playoffs, right? Like, I love him for that. But he just looks so spent at times, man. Especially there was one possession, Justin, where this guy on a drive to the rim when nobody's around, he just falls on the floor. He just fell down. He just fell down. What could be more relatable than that?

Mike lit this, dude. There was just certain points in this game and throughout this series where he's showing his age. And I think the Lakers seemed like a team that was just like understood that like, look, man, we got a home game to close these guys out. We've played them pretty damn well all series. We probably don't got the pedal to the metal mentality

that obviously the much more desperate, younger, fresher legs team had. And, yeah, Bain finally started making some jump shots. so the Grizzlies, you know, they got some space for themselves. And it didn't get to the point where they could choke it away at the end. But yeah, to me, to my mind, this is a one-game series now. Whoever wins Game 6 is coming out of this thing, the way I see it. And so, yeah, all eyes on the Lakers and Memphis in Game 6.

I'm about to say Staplescrypto.com arena. The crypt. To quote LeBron, tonight, I wish it. and I'll be better in game six. Yeah, I mean, the Grizzly just punched them in the mouth. And the Lakers are such a methodical team at this point. E.D. hit an incredible game, like, in the midst of all this 31 and 19. He was, it just did it matter.

It just, they just need to slowly chip away. And so to come back after that avalanche was a little bit much, to pile on Waz's point about LeBron. I mean, he has had amazing plays in the series, and we should mention that. But good God, this guy from three is, I don't even know, man, just like looking like AD almost at this point. He was one for nine, three for 28 over the past four games, six for 36 in this first round series. That's 17% from three.

And it wouldn't be a big deal if this was peak LeBron who wasn't hobbled. But as we've seen, like especially when the grizzly start raining, he needs to jack it up in order to, match them. And also, when he doesn't get by his defender, he is prone to just lofting it up there and kind of going about his business. And so it's starting to compound. I don't think it's the type of thing that will really like fell them this series, but it's something to keep an eye on for sure. He just spends a lot of possessions, or really, the Lakers spend a lot of possessions with like four other players passing around the ball, like four of the role players effectively, especially when 80 is out. And LeBron is like at the hash mark, right? I think part of the reason,

reason he's one for nine in a game like this, he's taking 35 footers. Like that's where he's setting up shop to try to draw some defense outside. He's not healthy. You know? Like it's so obvious every time he plays on both sides of the floor. He's giving them everything he can give them. He's dragging them

through this series. We'll see if they can ultimately get to the finish line. But AD's going to have have to have another game like this one. Right. I'm with I'm totally with you, Oz. Like if they like game six slip, I I think they're in real trouble. I don't even, because he's not going to his post-ups. He doesn't, like, because I feel like he doesn't feel explosive enough,

even on his post-ups. And they're just like, we're going to leave you on an island. You're not going to draw help on those post-ups. And so it's going to be useless. And, yeah, he just doesn't, he doesn't look like himself. Just the idea that he's afraid to take Tillman off of the dribble, where he's like, yeah, I have no problem guarding you out to 30 feet. Like, even last year's LeBron just.

dribbles right past that dude, draws help or gets a layup, right? He's not doing that against anybody right now, much less than Dylan Brooks or a Jaron Jackson, Jr. So, yeah, man, who knows? This is LeBron, right? I say this all the time. I always leave space for LeBron's capacity to surprise. And who knows?

Maybe he will surprise us again in this playoffs, but it's looking more and more bleak by the game. Can I kind of do a bit of trivia with you guys? sure we're already an hour into this pod man you do whatever you want why not what what player in this series do you think is shooting 415 from 3 27% from 3 for the series and is minus 25 overall um

then it's shorter no both good guesses I mean a lot of lakers role players have struggled but it but it's one of one of their cohorts Beasley is are you bringing me something because of Beasley I knew it's our good friend Malik Beasley our good friend

Malik Beasley Rob is having his vengeance yeah Beasley Beasley has not been good when he's on the floor he's barely getting him up and like his looks are never in rhythm oftentimes it just feels like he's forcing

these threes man very tough stuff defensively so like if he's not making threes like Like, why even play him? Guys, I got to be honest, tonight, I was shit. But when we pod this weekend, I'm going to be better.

Close out game on Sunday, Justin. Bring it. Awesome night of basketball. This is really fun. Yeah, this is what we do this for. Yeah. We'll be back on Sunday morning. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely.

Thank you to Ben Cruz on production. We'll see you next time.