The Ringer NBA Show - Jimmy Butler to Miami? Plus: Tempering the Lakers Hype. | Group Chat (Ep. 315)

Episode Date: October 4, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Haley O’Shaughnessy and Paolo Uggetti to preview the imminent Jimmy Butler trade to Miami (0:53) and discuss the uncertainty around the new Lakers (13:47). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everybody. Thank you for listening to The Ringer MBA show. You're about to listen to Group Chat. Before we get into the show, can I just ask for some feedback? We'd love it if you rate and review our podcast on iTunes, believe or not. It's very helpful for us in our endeavors. If you support the Ringer MBA show, you got KOC Inverno, you got Heat Check, us on group chat. We got Sources A with Julia Littman. And we've got a show coming up this fall with Kevin, Danny, and John, obviously, the draft class bros. We'll have plenty. plenty and plenty of content for you on the Ringer NBA show feed, but we'd love it if you rate and review us on iTunes. Thank you so much. Basketball is very good. Anthony Davis will win the MVP this year. The Hawks trading Donchich was a smart move. What if the caps are better without LeBron?

Basketball is very good. Hello, it is the Ringer NBA show, and this is group chats. I'm Chris Ryan. We are back. The NBA season is back. Joining me, the Derek Brooks to my Warren Sapp, Justin Verrier. Hi, guys. Joining me also is the Ed Reed to my Ray Lewis. Sure. Haley O'Shaughnessy. And the Josh Hart to my Kyle Kuzma. I'll take it. Palo Getty. What's up, guys? It's another year.

The Warriors are going to win. Let's end the podcast. No, weird. Good stuff to talk about. Preseason has been bountiful. I think we're taking it a little too seriously, personally. As always. You know, I love the enthusiasm. I just like the enthusiasm is great, but I think that we're getting a little too excited about games that don't matter. But that's okay.

I'm not here to judge people's enthusiasms. I'm burnt out already. No, but I think it's important people like love things, and that's good to love basketball. Follow your passion is what I always tell people. We want to talk about this Jimmy Butler trade, which now feels imminent, I think. Like the loosened up a little bit last night.

It feels like it probably will happen. Probably going to be the Timberwolves. Sounds like it's going to be Josh Richardson. You said probably going to be the temper wolves. Well, it's probably going to be the heat and the Timberwolves. I'm sure the Timberwolves will begin. I would say most definitely going to you. It would be a pretty huge criticism of Tom Tibido's leadership

if the Timberwolves were not involved in the Jimmy Butler's trade at this point. I mean, anything is possible. He doesn't want him to be. That's the thing, right? We'll talk about that. We're going to talk about the Lakers. We're going to talk about the Western Conference a little bit in general. Let's talk about the Jimmy Butler stuff.

What a weird story. What a weird story because it's very NBA 2016, 17, 18 for these big players to move for this gossip to be surrounding these all-stars, these all-MBA level players. but it's very strange how this one has just been so bungled on the Minnesota side. Reports of Glenn Taylor, overriding Tom Thibito's authority. Tom wants to keep him. Glenn wants to trade them. Call me.

No call me. It seems like they finally found a trade partner in Miami. It seems like the deal is Josh Richardson, bam out a buy out a pick for Jimmy Butler. What's your read on this so far? You know, it's hard to say because this thing is just moving so quickly at this point. They've pretty much condensed the Kyrie Irvin fiasco into the span of two weeks. weeks. I don't know what Jimmy Butler is doing on vacation or during the summer, but he seems like he tabled all of everything he was doing, including figuring out his future. And as a result,

now everybody's kind of like scrambling to figure it out. I think the heat make the most sense in terms of just immediate impact. Like, I think they'll be good next year, whereas like if Jimmy went to the Nets or some of these other teams that he's been rumored to be interested in, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference in terms of like the playoff races. At the same time, I feel like both teams are kind of, they're doing something, but I don't know if it really changes their trajectories, all of that significantly. I think both are going to be maybe slightly better as a result,

especially because the wolves didn't have Jimmy for all of last year, but overall, I think they're pretty much in the same spot. Well, I think that it makes Minnesota more flexible, because if Jimmy would have wanted to come back, we all agree that they would have signed him to a max contract, right? So I think it gives them more flexibility, because Richardson's contact is really good. Bam still on his rookie contract, obviously.

They have a pick. And they would theoretically get off of Gorgie here, right? Yeah. But potentially bring on Tyler Johnson. Sure, that's right. Right. Right. I mean, but they were headed toward,

we already saw what they were going to be, and if you locked in Butler as that, it wasn't convincing. They still needed something else. And then on Miami side, it kind of solidified them because they have all these great pieces to surround a star.

They didn't have a star. Yeah. Well, the thing with the heat, I think, is interesting, is that this is kind of the opportunity that they were waiting for, or at least maybe Pat Riley was waiting for, is like, you needed a disgruntled star or something

to change in the landscape. You wanted it in business of the next guy who wanted out of town somewhere. And they didn't exactly set themselves up well for it, but they have enough assets, I think, to where they fit as that team. And you never know, like once you get Butler, I look at it

kind of like as a foot in the door. Like, what is next off season look like for the heat if they have Butler? Like does that? So they have his birds if they trade for him. Right. And attitudinally, like culturally, like in terms of like how hard Jimmy Butler works historically and what the he ask of their players physically, I think it's a

perfect match. The problem with it is is that you're paying for the last good years and some bad years at a premium premium price, which is the problem. We're going to keep coming back to this over and over again with Blake, with Russ, with Wall, all these guys making $45 million in what will probably be their twilight years, right and especially guys like jimmy like russ like blake who take a beating and whose whose knees have had problems and who've had health problems that suggest that maybe they won't be as athletic at the end of their careers as you know as they have been when they made made their their hay it's hard to it's hard to say

i think a lot of what this trade depends on though is what you think of the miami development system versus what you think of the minnesota development system because essentially this is like Josh is a good player, but Bam's the one with all the potential, right? And Bam could be this defensive stalwart who's standing behind Carl Towns and is kind of sweeping up after him for some of his defensive mishaps, right?

But if you had to guess right now, would you consider him capable of getting to an all-star game? Bam? No, most likely not. So that's where I land on it, essentially. It's like making the trade. I look at what the wolves will ultimately probably end up doing

is basically resetting themselves to where they were pre-butler, which makes the whole past year and a half kind of like what was the point of it to begin with. But I mean, your whole future was wrapped up in what Wiggins and towns were going to be regardless and whether or not Wiggins stays or not, that's an open question too. But

you're bringing in young guys to potentially build for the future there, but to Chris's point, I think as we've seen, Tibbs isn't that type of coach to coach that type of team. And I was at the preseason game last night with them. And yeah, like Josha Kobe's is interesting and some of these other

younger guys that they're bringing in are interesting. I just don't know how much run they're going to get with a guy who has shown a proclivity. Derek Rose is good. Derek Rose was starting, which I didn't realize until last night. And if they intend to do that, they don't get a point guard to play next to Teague or whatever, it's going to be a mess. What do you think?

I mean, you watch probably more wolves than anybody at this table. Like, do you think life without Jimmy is a better life? I just think that it sets them up better for the future. I think when you're thinking life without Jimmy, especially with how Glenn and, Tibbs have kind of separately handled this. It also probably, to me, means life without Tom Tibido. Sure. And so that's a lot better.

Then I think that they are in a better situation now with Bam, assuming that they get the trade that we said was proposed. Josh Bam and Tyler. Yeah, because there's a lot more future in that. Even like you said before the Butler trade, Chris Dunn, I'd rather, at the time he was coming off his rookie season, I'd rather have Bam coming off his rookie season. Zach Levine, I'd rather have Richardson probably because. he's on a better contract.

Who knows what Levine would have asked for. So I do think it just opens up a lot more flexibility for them, which is good because they were locking down. They were locking down the wrong path. It was never going to be good enough. And they were going to lock into Butler's, you know, twilight years or past his prime or whatever. He's 29.

Yeah. So. 29 and has a history of having pretty bad injuries. Right. Not necessarily like knee blown out injuries, but like miss six weeks injuries. Right. Yeah.

They're taking a step back, but they're giving themselves flexibility moving forward. Miami becomes another one of these teams in the Eastern Conference, assuming this goes through, that's like this sub-Boston team that could be pretty good

or could be pretty mediocre. I mean, Toronto, I think, we're expecting to be the second seed. For the most part, Philly's going to be competitive, but a lot of that is going to depend on where Fultz can push them beyond where they were last year.

But then you've got like Indiana. Can they repeat what they did that? year, Miami, how good can they be with Jimmy playing within a SPO system? But a Miami team that would be, you know, we kind of almost criticize Miami because it's like, oh, you got like 10 guys that are all pretty much around the same level and there's no like sort of hierarchy here. Now they would have a definitive hierarchy. This would be a Miami team built more like the Wade teams of the pre-Lebron era where it's like all going through one or two guys.

How good do you think Miami could be next season if they have Jimmy Butler, but without those three guys? I think given the East and how it's like you said a little shaky after the top two, three I think it could be I think they could easily get the fourth seed because Jimmy's a top 15 player in the league and like you said

all this time we've just been waiting for them to figure out who is that crunch time guy right and Wade can't be that anymore even though this is going to be his last season so I think that's why I wanted from the beginning for Miami to trade for Butler because it just made a lot of sense

and the East is not wide open but if you look at it next year, Celtics are going to be better. So why not take the shot? They have to do it. There's no question. Yeah, they'll be better. I love these trades because it provides

kind of a sense of clarity for some of these overarching questions we have with these teams. Like, oh, is the Wolves problem like the institution or is it some of the guys that don't get along or something like that? With the heat, is it, do they need a star to flourish or is what they have already going to

put them in the same place where they are? I personally think that the top four in the east is pretty much set. I think the box are going to take a significant step forward. And then the other teams like Toronto, Boston and Philly are pretty much just locked in at this point. I think barring some catastrophic injury or Kauai just not playing. They're pretty much set there. So I don't know if there's a lot of room to really jump. Interesting.

And so for that reason, I don't know. They can be both better and not get much farther, I guess is what I'm saying. And the one thing, the problem with rushing this right before the season is now you're going to be filling spots that perhaps you weren't like thinking about going into the season. There are little holes. Maybe you don't have a backup two guard and all of a sudden someone gets hurt and then things fall from there. And if you look at most teams that even have a year to figure this out, like a full off season to figure this out, they're still figuring things out on a fly in their first season. The Lakers, for instance. For sure.

Don't have a backup center. We'll get to the Lakers in a second. Do you like the Jimmy fit on Miami? I do, especially for all the mentality things that you brought up earlier. And it's always fun to see what Spoke can do with a player. But I think that, so when we were talking about the Eastern conference rankings and how we think it's going to pan out, I think we might be underestimating the Pacers. Yeah.

Because it's not just that they have to be on par with what they were last year, but their offseason moves could make them a lot better. Sure. Yeah, I was looking up, they got Tyreek Evans. That's huge. I feel like we've not talked about it at all. It's the best move that a team like that could make at the most. True. The GM survey had him as

like the most underrated edition and I was a little taking a back by that because he had a good season last year. Did he get a contractor or is this another one-year deal where he's playing for a contract? I think it's a two-year deal if I'm not mistaken. I think it's one. Plus one.

Yeah, probably what it is. So yeah, I don't know. I just, look, if Tyree Gevin's does the same thing he did last year, then good for the Pacers, that's probably something they very much needed. But I don't know, I'm not ready to say like Tyro Gevin's big off-season edition. Haley, you think that we're kind of underrating the Pacers almost?

Yeah, because last year what Depot needed was more help, and this year he has more help. Well, and also continuity. We looked across the NBA. What do we say every year? It's like teams that have played alongside each other just know how to play off each other, especially on the defensive end. That brings us to our next topic, the Los Angeles Lakers. That's beautiful. But first, let's take a quick break.

Hey, guys, it's Liz Kelly, here to tell you that we have a brand new podcast called Halloween Unmast, premiering Monday, October 1st. Here's a sneak peek. There's trouble in the suburbs. A teenage girl named Laurie Strode crosses a quiet street toward an ordinary house to find her friends. But Lori doesn't know that her friends are dead, and she doesn't know that she's walking right toward the masked killer Michael Myers. The movie is Halloween. And Halloween just, it was like a breath of fresh putrid air. He's a pure, unknowable evil.

I'm film critic Amy Nicholson, and this is Halloween on Mast, a podcast series from the Rings are celebrating the remarkable and terrifying rise of America's most revolutionary horror film. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast to Halloween enmast and watch your back. I think the scariest part was that he doesn't die at the end. So when you're 10, it's like, that guy's still out there. We got to get him. We are back. It's group chat, aka the Lakers podcast.

I feel like we're going to be talking about this team quite a bit this season. Lakers. but this podcast is supposed to be sort of an extension of the things that we're talking about in the LA office. That was sort of the idea behind doing group chat is like this is kind of a reflection of the things that are really occupying collectively

like the NBA staff. And obviously the Lakers are not only the biggest talking point but have brought about the most divergent opinions. There's like a collection of people who think the Lakers are going to be super fun and much better than everybody expects them to be. and fast and explosive and exciting. And then there are other people

who think that this is kind of a joke and that they're going to not be very good at all. Name names. Me, I think that the Lakers are going to be like a seven seed. Yeah. And I think that they'll make the playoffs, but I think that there's so many more things in the box of like this is going to go wrong

than this is going to go right. I mean, it's insane how few like nobody in any sector knows what's going on. Like I showed you guys the other day the Vegas odds for assist leaders for assist per game. And Lonzo was higher than Rondo. So that means that Vegas thinks by the end

that Lanzo will be starting. I think a lot of people think that among like Laker fans and Laker people. Here's the thing. Right now, I feel like the narrative coming out of Lakers camp is that Rondo is the second most important player on this team.

I think it's because LeBron thinks that as well. Like you were a man mentioned before. He's the one out there calling him Derek Brooks or I don't know who is stability. Who else would be? The second best player? I mean, their second best player is the most important player in the

Western Congress. He's like the guy who's going to determine whether or not this is a third seed or a playoff like borderline playoffs. He's their second most important player. I think but he's going to be so crucial. But Rondo's is the second most necessary player. Yeah, I agree with this. Interesting. Who else has stability?

I can't believe we're talking about Rondo as a stable figure. He's next to Michael Bies. Lance Stevenson, Devon McGee. Context matters in the situation, I guess. The other thing is, I think Rondo can hit a consistent jumper

at this point, where we don't know if Rondo can. Isaac is definitely just like bathing the sweat off his brow with a Quentin Richardson jersey over there in the engineering side. Yeah, I mean,

can I try to take real quick for you? Sure. I think the Clippers, there's a chance that they could be better than the Lakers. Yes! Let's go!

Now, I just came from the Lakers preseason game last night and I had fallen in love with Shea Gilderlgers, Alexander. He's my next son. But they have a lot of just hard-playing veterans who know what they're doing, and I feel like that's the type of team that in the regular season,

which is always a war of attrition, can just rise above and just win more games than you expect. The Clippers are who the Lakers think they are. Oh, I love this. Seriously, imagine if the Lakers had like Pat Beverly or Lou Williams. Yes. Be great. Yeah.

Is this my birthday? Like, reliance. What's going on? This is actually the 11th episode of Maniac. Oh, my God. This isn't actually happening. It's a deep pill. Well, okay, my take is that...

Yeah, and you got to... I know you're a Lakers insider. You got to protect the sources. No, not at all. Not at all. Very much not true. I think the reason why this is so confusing to analyze the Lakers is because there are two Laker teams within one Laker team. I like it.

We're now on the third layer of take here. This is the Russian Nesting doll. So, preseason, yeah, it's preseason, but watching the Lakers, when it's... LeBron, Rondo, Ingram, even Javail, and then whether it's hard or KCP, especially with Hart, their last game, they are very, they're not just fun, but they are effective.

LeBron kind of is the key to everything, and then at the same time, like everybody's in the right spots, like they're going after rebounds, and they're just making the right place, they're moving fast, they're pushing the ball. Then, once Lenton Stevenson gets in there, Michael Beasley gets in there,

like, that's when it goes to like, wait, what am I watching? Because it's so disorganized that I just don't know what that second unit is going to look like. So whether Rondo slides over to the second unit, if Lonzo does start or Lonzo takes care of the second unit, that's going to be the more fascinating point to me and kind of determine what this team will be in terms of like the standings because there's such a big chasm between the second unit and the first unit right now. There's also a big chasm between the continuity of the other teams in the Western Conference that are to be completing for playoffs. even teams as bad as the Timberwolves.

Even if they were to bring in, Bam, Josh Richardson, and Tyler Johnson, at least those three guys have been playing together for a while. Like, they know each other. I don't know. We're underestimating the chaos that's inside of Staples right now in terms of like who's supposed to do what, what's going to happen when things get a little hard,

which they traditionally do in the first LeBron season. Now, the first Miami season, I think, in retrospect, was fine. You know, they lost to the Mavericks, but in retrospect, like there was like a while where they were

500, but it was only a little while. First Cav season was hard. This is going to be a hard season. And I don't know necessarily that they have the personnel to run anything that Luke Walton wants to run in terms of like that meme team

with LeBron guys. Like those are not, to me, Ball Finds Energy, spread the floor guys. What do you think? I mean, where are you landing on this, Haley? I think it's the same as what

Paula was saying, the second unit is so confusing. They basically have four guys who, when they were on their separate teams last season, the Twitter accounts would get super excited every four games because they do something funny. They have four like, oh, I love that guy, guys. That doesn't make for like a bench unit. And then who knows, like today, didn't you say that Brandon Ingram? Yeah. Brandon was starting at the point guard position tonight.

Right. So who knows exactly what he's going to work out? The thing is, is this isn't a situation where he has so much. It's not the Nuggets where he has so much and they can work with so many different positions and people. It's out. No, he's playing Kuzma, the backup five right now. Right. We're really actually not sure what will work and even if he has anything that will work.

Right. Now, the question is, is LeBron in a different mind state where he's like, this is actually the third act of my MBA career, but it's in fact like the final act of, you know, it's like it's not the final act of me. and so maybe life isn't as tied up in on-court results. We just don't know what like a LeBron that isn't the favored to go to the finals looks like. I think part of that is that he knows that whatever Lakers team he was on this year wasn't going to be maybe a finals team, right? And so he's naturally taking some pressure off himself. I don't think he minds that the pressure's off,

but I absolutely don't think he's okay with not being that guy anymore just because he has a post-career. are planned. I think this is like just a distraction until next for agency. Until Anthony Davis, basically. But he has to stay healthy and like prime LeBron until then. Yeah, and that's the question. If they're going to run this entire season,

that's what they did in those first few preseason games, how is LeBron going to react to that? Is he going to just give up during games and just coves for a little bit? And how many games is he actually going to play? Because if you're running all the time, then obviously the wear and tear adds up. And if you're thinking about running him at the full. four and the five, that means you're banging with bigger guys. And these things add up. And that's why I think it really comes down to how many games

a Bron can play. And maybe someone like Rondo simply because he is one of the few guys who's like an organizing principle for all of these interchangeable young, fast kids who might have upside, but maybe not as much as we think we don't really know. And so they're the two things, they're the two known quantities. And I think that's why I find myself gravitating toward them as like the two most important players. Right. So imagining him coming off the bench just doesn't make any sense to me.

No. But I'm telling you, like I think the perception is that Lonzo will take that starting spot. I think he's a better player. I think maybe not this second and especially not because he's not actually playing. But I just think

he is a better defender. I think Rondo is a very overrated defender at this point. I think Lonzo is a good ball mover. I think he's a problem. You think Rondo's an overrated defender. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I agree.

I mean, I think that Rondo gets a ton of credit for the way he could read the game. Yes. And that leaves over into being like he's a shutdown corner. You know, yeah. Last year, he was a net neutral at best oftentimes on the defensive end. And that's another question. If Rondo and LeBron are two of your most important players, that means a defense that was actually better than I thought they would be,

considering how many young players they had, is going to get worse. And again, like, the West is really hard. You need to guard some of the best offensive players in the league. been relatively durable over the last couple of years. It's still like in 65, 69, 72 games and then it's the 1415 is when he's, yeah. I guess he plays, he tends to play around 60, 60 something games. Yeah, it was really funny during the preseason game last night.

He was like acting as a coach. Like he was like literally walking up to where like Luke Walton was standing and like telling guys things. And like I guess that's going to add some value to as well. So maybe he's okay with eventually coming off the bench, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I just look at the pace and everything is almost, it plays to their advantages and it's like a schematic choice,

but at the same time it almost feels almost like trickeration in a way. Sure. Like that's the way they're creating advantage, but in the half court in the fourth quarter, let's say LeBron isn't playing that night. Like, what is this team going to do? Yeah, well, and that's going to be like a really interesting litmus test of, not his commitment, because I don't doubt his commitment.

It's like we saw an MVP push LeBron and a title push LeBron last season. I don't know that he can play full season almost 35, 40 minutes a game to save the season this year. I think he's got to play in third year sometimes. I want to ask you guys a couple of questions here. The big conversation topic we had the other night, I think the night, the Tuesday, the Denver game, this week, the Lakers Denver game. We kind of got into a slack conversation about Western Conference, playoffs, stand, like seedings, and where the Lakers could wind up. And I was like, I see seven teams that I think are better than the Lakers. I think that the Rockets, the Warriors, the Thunder and the Spurs, the Jazz, the Pelicans, and the Blazers are all better than the Lakers.

Does that make sense to you? Do you see the Lakers vaulting ahead of any of those teams? I guess the Spurs have as many question marks in some ways as the Lakers do. They just kind of keep it a little bit more stable. Right. There's a foundation under the Spurs. And some of it is gone. You know, Manu's gone.

Tony's gone. Quai, even though he wasn't a factor last season. But there is just like this added sense of like people are just still going into his system and cycling around. Whereas like with the Lakers, I'm just not sure like what direction even. What the system is right, right. So I think, so the most arguable one is like what? Portland. I think Portland, New Orleans, Denver, Minnesota and the Lakers are four teams for probably two or three spots, right? Yeah.

I personally think the Rockets in the. Warriors are untouchable, obviously. I think the Thunder are going to be pretty good. I think the Jazz have a chance to be the second best team in the West. Fuck. No, Thunder. Second best team in the Lowe leaning into his OKC fandom. Can we turn on the air conditioning?

I think the Pelicans also have a chance to be pretty good, but they're already experiencing some injuries at key positions. I think the Lakers are right there. Pelicans are the best player in the league, Anthony Davis? I think he is the best player. Yeah, I know. He is. Just ask him.

Yeah, exactly. Can you imagine if now I turned on Anthony Davis? I was like, what's happening? The me first hubris. Remember when the brow used to care only about like, you know, wins and locks us. Drew Holiday. About, about po-boys and New Orleans things.

Yeah, okay, so like, do you see, where do you see them? Do you see them on the edge of the playoffs, in the playoffs, safely? I think on the edge, just about where you put them. Portland is the most interesting question mark to me, but even them, when I think about them, I'm like, yeah, their ceiling is so obvious, but our question for them isn't even like, it is sometimes will they make it in depending on the other Western conference teams but our question is like will they be able to like put together what we know that they have whereas with the leg is just like will they be able to put together

something right and we've actually seen I mean they went through some personnel changes this summer but we have seen like if you maximize what you have on that Portland roster they're pretty pretty good right yeah exactly I think they're better than they were last year even yeah some of their tweaks I mean they lost the Ned Davis here and there but then you gain his at Collins. Everybody loves that famous. You don't count for the bump, yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, I think they're right in that mix of teams that might be in the playoffs, might be, not. And I think when you look at a team like, for instance, at Denver, who we all think is going to take a jump, I also think the Lakers might be deeper than Denver at this point,

because Denver is out here selling off parts just to pay for Will Barton. Yeah. Yeah, but Denver is like, does Yokuch take a leap? Does Jamal Murray take a leap? Right. Does Gary Harris down the stretch make you a better team,

which they didn't have last year? You know, like all those things where I think, there's like so much potential there. I don't think Denver's super deep? No, I think they have a good like seven, but I think from there it's kind of up in the air. I mean, maybe like, Woncho takes a leap.

They have all these like random 3&D wings in theory like Tori Craig that they love. Just to bring it full circle on this Los Angeles conversation, do we think the clippers will be better than the Lakers? I might have to backtrack on that take already. Really? Tobias Harris, though. They're definitely, yeah, Tobias looks really good.

And Gallo. They have so many more. They have, okay, so. Gallo, he won't be healthy. They have so many more than that. The Clippers players are safer. Yeah. But their ceiling might not be as high.

Right. Whereas with the Lakers, we don't know. I mean, we already know LeBron. There are people out there right now who are like, you guys are wild. Like, LeBron is getting into this playoffs. He's the default. What's the thing?

It's like, what are you doing by not trusting LeBron? And in some ways, leading the Lakers out of the wilderness and back into the playoffs is in itself a huge accomplishment. And he knows that, and I think Polinka and Magic know that, that that is like the starting point for the next phase of this franchise is like getting back in the mix. And then you can worry about Anthony Davis or Quile on her next year. When people talk about last Cavs season, when they bring that up is like LeBron's just going to take them to the playoffs, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, who's like the Kevin Love in this situation? It's not only literally at the position, but like.

That's why Ingram's so important. Right. And we're counting on him to make a jump this year. Yeah. based off some really great flashes last season. I'm not out on him, but that can't be your Kevin Love. But that's going to be, that is actually why this is so fascinating. It's just because in a weird way,

LeBron isn't as important to the Lakers in some ways as the other players around. So many other things have to fall right. It's true. It's like how LeBron fostered those players is more important. It's his legacy. It's what we're talking about. All right. It's our legacy to do this podcast for Palo, Haley, and Justin.

I'm Chris. We'll be with you all NBA season. Thanks for listening to group chat. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.