The Ringer NBA Show - Jimmy Butler v. the Timberwolves, the Lakers’ Lonzo Problem, and the Sixers' GM Search | Heat Check (Ep. 311)

Episode Date: September 18, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez is joined by Jason Concepcion to discuss the Los Angeles Clippers’ unconventional hiring of Lee Jenkins, the tension between Jimmy Butler and the Minnesota Timberwolves, and the New York Knicks’ future prospects (3:45). Then, Paolo Uggetti joins to talk about the rise of NBA offseason trainers and the new dynamic of the Los Angeles Lakers' roster (31:00). Finally, Mike Levin from 'The Rights to Ricky Sanchez’ comes on to evaluate the Philadelphia 76ers’ ongoing GM pursuit and their outlook on the season (47:15). Note: This podcast was recorded before the Philadelphia 76ers announced their hiring of Elton Brand as general manager. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly. I want to tell you about our great football coverage on the Ringer podcast network. Every Monday, Bill Simmons and Cousin Salle recap the weekend and guest next week's NFL lines on the BS podcast. On Wednesday mornings, Ryan Rusillo hits the hardest angles in college and pro football on our new podcast, dual threat. And on Wednesday nights, Cousin Salle and the degenerate trifecta figure out the best gambling angles on against all odds. And five times per week, the Ringer NFL show reacts to the latest news with Kevin Clark, Robert Mays, Tate Frayton, Michael Lombardi and the Dannasy football crew. Subscribe to the BS podcast, dual threat against all odds, and the Ringer NFL show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. And on the site, Zach Cram speculates which NBA roster would be best if every player was in his prime. And Claire McNair is writing about American Vandal. You can check those out on the ringer.com. Hey, Ringer NBA show listeners, producer Isaac here. Before we get into the show, just wanted to let you know that this was recorded

before the Philadelphia 76ers announced their hiring of Elton brand as general manager. The show today contains some speculation around their now concluded search, and this is because we recorded this prior to the knowledge and announcement of the hiring. Anyways, hope you enjoy. Welcome to the heat check podcast. I'm your host John Gonzalez. We got Isaac Lee behind the glass producing the show, as always.

And we've got all kinds of stuff for you on Theringer.com, including NFL coverage. I want to make sure you check out the Ringer NFL show with me. Mays and Clark. We've got GM Street with Tate and Lombardi. We've got the fantasy show with the Danes. The Danesey Football Podcasts. The Danesy Football Podcasts, which is like really the greatest name that we have. It's right up there with One Shining Podcast. Make sure you check out all of that stuff. And of course, read and listen to all of our NBA content, NBA Training Camp. I cannot believe the training camp is starting that the NBA is back. I feel like I was just in Cleveland for the finals. But it's here, gang. Our NBA preview has begun. We've got a best and worst case scenario for all 30 teams. We're starting them in reverse order, so the bad teams first and we'll lead up to the better teams. And we've already done,

Danny Chowd did the Atlanta Hawks. Riley McHughty has a piece on the Kings right now. And then in the greater NBA storylines, we've got Haley wrote a story about Jimmy Butler's relationship with the wolves, which we'll talk about later on in the program. Zach cram with one of the most Zach cram stories that Zach cram ever Zach crammed,

which is a story called which team would be the best if every player was in his prime. I have no idea how he calculated it because he's too smart for me, but he explains it all very, very well. So go ahead and check that out. And also on the ringer.com, Paolo O'geti wrote a story about

the personal trainers for NBA players, the guys who NBA players work with the offseason to improve their game. Really interesting look behind the NBA curtain in the off season. So we're going to talk to Palo a little bit later on about that piece and also the Lakers. And then Mike Levin from the rights to Ricky Sanchez,

A friend of mine also happens to be a Hollywood comedy TV writer. He's going to join the program to talk about the Sixers' ongoing GM search and also the forthcoming sitcom on NBC about Ben Simmons and his family situation that Mike just sold. So that's going to be really fun. But first, last night, as I was prepping from this pod, figuring out what we're going to talk about. A very interesting, weird, unexpected story developed in the NBA. and for that, we need to bring in one of our favorites here at He-Chek. All right, joining me in the studio from Bidgmod and NBA desktop and countless other ringer properties. It's Jason Concepcion and Milton. Milton is also here.

Hello, and yeah, good boy, Milton. So we have a lot of things to talk about before we do. I wanted to mention this to you as a quick aside. So over the weekend, some ringer drama happened here. Producer Kyle, otherwise known to Bill Simmons listeners as nephew Kyle, produces a lot of things here. He's actually the OG heat check producer. He's a legend. Also, the former producer of achievement oriented,

my late video game podcast here at the ringer with Ben Lindberg. He does a lot of different things. So he goes out into the world this weekend. And he doesn't have any ink. You have a lot of ink. That's right. He goes out of the world. And he gets his first ever tattoo.

And it's a one shining podcast tattoo. I love the flex. And the reason I bring this up is our producer, our esteemed producer, Iceman. man, Isaac Lee, who produces two of the biggest podcasts on the Ringer podcast network, binge mode and heat check, does not have a binge mode tattoo. Shocking.

Does not have a heat check tattoo. I think he should get ice tattooed under his left eye. I mean, you guys took him to Orlando. He can't get a little ink for that. It's unbelievable. Well, Isaac, I believe, is planning on ink. But, you know, like, listen, your first ink is it's a big. It's a big deal.

It's a big deal. My first ink, I went too big and did like a six-hour thing. thing, which was a mistake. So I think you need to think about what you're going to do for your first thing. We're going to have to talk about some sort of binge mode heat check crossover a tattoo for Isaac. Are you on board with that? Yeah.

I mean, I would love to get a tattoo eventually. I don't know if it's going to be work related and or podcast related. But Jeff Chow yesterday, our president came in the office and was like, Isaac, because Kyle got the OSP tattoo, now you got to get a lightning mark on your forehead. and a little basketball as a tear drop on your eye. And to which I said, if I need to get that to keep this job, I might have to do that. You should make the tear drop basketball like kind of a Clippers logo also. Yeah, yeah, I could do that.

That was an excellent transition. We're going to start out. A pro, baby. I shouldn't. You really should. You really are. In general, when we talk about the Clippers here, it's almost in passing or an act by accident or when they say something funny and I tease them a little bit. The Clippers made some news last night that blew up.

Ringer Slack, we were very surprised by it. Lee Jenkins, who is a very nice guy who is one of the great writers across the NBA media, broke some news that he is joining the Clippers front office organization. The Clippers put out a statement. He is named the director of research and identity for the Clippers. He's leaving S.I. He is going to the Clippers front office. They issued a statement.

In this new position, the first of its kind for any team Jenkins will use his extensive reporting background and unique. interviewing style to contribute to the franchise's amateur and professional scouting infrastructure, as well as to help enhance the Clipper experience. Here's a statement from Lawrence Frank. Lee has spent his career profiling elite athletes, including most of the top players in the NBA, given Lee's talent, knowledge, and credibility. We hope to blend his approach with our existing evaluation systems and highlight the personalities of our players. He is the NBA's preeminent storyteller and adding him to the team as a reflection of Steve Ballmer's commitment to innovation

and building a best in-class organization. Jason Concepcion, I have no idea what any of that means or what that title is. I'm happy for Lee. Tell me what this is. First of all, I want to say that my dream to becoming the NICS international director of Spice Synergy, seems one step closer. It's going to happen. It's going to happen one day.

I think that this is extremely happy for Lee. I think this is really cool. I want to emphasize that. that this is one of the greatest hustles ever perpetrated in sports. It essentially seems to me, now, reading the T-Leaves, reading between the lines, it seems like the Clippers are going to get

into the content game in some form or fashion. Lee's going to be doing something. It seems that, I guess, the way we'd call it essentially PR, but not. It appears to me like he's going to be helping Clippers players build their brand

by creating profiles, stories about their players that will live on clippers.com, I would imagine. I would guess. Right? And let's say that you're a soon-to-be free agent who's one of the top players in the NBA but doesn't quite have the brand recognition because you've been playing in a small market that's kind of known for its understatedness and humbleness. And you're looking to build your brand.

Maybe this appeals to you, Kauai Leonard, are you listening? You know, like, maybe this appeals to you. I don't know. I do think that if you're a team like the Clippers, it's good to think outside the box. So I'm generally for this. I think this is really interesting. I can't wait to see what is created from this.

It's different and interesting. And again, I don't know what it is. I know that during last season, towards the end of last season and the offseason, the Clippers, we're looking around for a media partner to have sort of 24-hour, seven-day-a-week access to the Clippers.

and do a bunch of stuff. Like hard knocks or first team Juventus kind of thing. Not just the written word, but also the digital space and video space. And maybe instead of outsourcing it, they decided to go and grab somebody and bring them in-house. Maybe this is it. Yeah, he's an amazing storyteller. Lee Jenkins' profiles, I mean, they're singular, right? And a lot of that has to do with the access that he had.

Incredible access. Unbelievable access. Access king. He's the access king. Now he's got in-house access. So maybe that doesn't. Lee went on with Woge on Wojj's pod and told Woj this team is interested not just in what players do but who they are, how they're wired, how they're motivated. That's the area he loves to explore.

And he said, between the market and the owner, they have advantages to author one of the great sports stories ever. Here's the interesting part of what he said. You can tell a great story without writing it. There are ways to build it behind the scenes. This is where I go, the question mark bubble is above my head. And I'm just waiting to see what that is. Because if you bring in Lee Jenkins, Lee Jenkins is a great wordsmith, right?

He's a great storyteller. You give him a little access. He spins these 5,000 word yarns onto the next, right? If he's not writing it, how are you building the Luke Bamute or Boban or Milos Tiodosich behind the scenes brand story? That's my question. I don't know, but let me...

Does it change anything for the clippers? I don't think it changes anything in the short term at all, right? Do NBA fans care? Because we're geeking out on it. I think NBA fans, fans writ large probably don't have any idea about this. Well, welcome to heat check. Here's 20 minutes on Lee Jenkins.

I'd like to veer for a second. I think that what's interesting to me about this is, you know, one of the critiques of Lee and anybody who peddles in access is propaganda is strong, but now that what do you have to trade off in order to get that access? What kind of, what is your coverage? Right. What kind of punches are you pulling potentially? Right.

In order to get that access. It's interesting and sort of a tacit admission that Lee is good at navigating those questions in a way that is beneficial for players. Yes. And certainly. There's a political component. A team that Lee would be hired for this job. So yeah, there is a political component and it's a kind of a tacit admission that Lee is good at navigating those waters. What comes out of this?

I don't know. But I do think that Netflix has a bunch of these kind of behind. the scene's sports team properties. First team Juventis is one of them. It's about, you know, the winningest team in Syria, Ah, that Juventus, very interesting. There's a Boka juniors about the very storied Brazilian teams coming out. So these kind of things, it's interesting that the NBA doesn't have one yet. So it would be very interesting to see one. I would watch one on basically any of the NBA teams, but I think the clippers, there's a lot of meat there on that bone if they do decide

to do it. And having Lee potentially shape a project like that in a way that would be not only newsworthy, but also put the clippers and its players in a good light, I think I can see why the clippers want to do it. And clearly, I would see why Lee would want to do it. And I'm very interested to see the content that comes out of it. Yeah, for Lee, I think. Does it move the needle? I don't know. For Lee, you know, with the way that the media landscape knock wood, like we're very fortunate here at the ringer. Boss man Bill has done an awesome job assembling this cast of characters and we're set free to go and produce content and things are going well here at the ringer, but it's not

that way. Aside from the athletic, not all shops are doing well. SI, I think, has fallen on some hard times as we know with the layoff. So for him jumping to a front office makes absolute sense. For the Clippers, also there's a component where you want to get some positive attention on your team traditionally in a city where you have been overlooked and specifically Basically now, it's going to be very difficult for you to get eyeballs. Yes.

Because the Lakers always are the first team in L.A. And now doubly, triply, I don't know what the exponent is. But you can't calculate it. You're going to have to send away to NASA to figure out how much attention we're going to give the Lakers because LeBron James is here now. So if you're the Clippers, you've got to do something. Right. But I'm with you.

I look at it and I go, I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to pay more attention to the Clippers now because I always read Lee Jenkins. Yeah. Is he going to figure out a way to get my eyeballs? onto the clippers that I hadn't imagined? I don't know. I think I have to think outside the box.

You know what I mean? Is Gallantari selling tickets? Love my guy, Danila Gallinari. But like, you know. Bobon was here recently and took a nice picture with Palo, who's going to be on the show. Love my guy, Big Bobon. Is he selling tickets? I don't know.

You know, like is Tobias selling tickets. So I understand what the clippers have to think outside the box. Steve Bomber is a guy who comes from an industry that is known for disrupting other industries. So this is a very interesting move and I can't have to see what happens next. And I'm really interested to know if this resonates with the casual, well, not even just the casual NBA fan, but like the NBA fan that we get here at the ring. Because we're NBA nerds, right? We geek out on all this stuff. I wonder if they go, oh, man, Lee Jenkins.

NBA nerds, I think, will geek out over this. I mean, it's, it is startling. It is. Listen, the Sixers still looking for a GM, John. I mean, like It could be me. Take me to Barclay Prime. Let me know if

you know, they're interviewing candidates. It could be something, right? My God, it's just crazy. If the Knicks came to you tomorrow and said, Yes. Listen. I would just say yes. You'd give up binge mode.

You'd give up L.A. I was respected James Dolen. James Dolan's vision for the team. You love his music. His music is very meaningful to me. Director of Spice. come at him do this thing Jason is available. All right, we got to talk about

some actual basketball. Initially this was supposed to be the Jimmy Butler podcast component and Jimmy Butler and the T-Wolves not having a great relationship right now. The athletics, John Krasinski, reported that Jimmy Butler would meet with Tom Tibado and Scott Layden

to have honest conversations about the All-Star's future with the team. According to the Athletic Minnesota, he had a story on it. He said that the meeting was supposed to happen on Monday. Butler, of course, seized upon this as a joke and said exactly tweeted out right jacques exactly why people this is what he tweeted exactly why people need to stop believing what you see on the internet i didn't have no damn meeting today it was monday when he tweeted this out it's tomorrow tuesday i wonder

what else people write and believe he obviously did not deny the allegations that things are not great in minnesota what do we think about the haley just wrote about this shouts to haley o'shaughnessy about the complicated relationship between butler and the wolves he and tibus he and tibank have had a long relationship. Those guys have gotten on, but it doesn't, it doesn't look like the players in him are doing great. Tivido has a lot of long relationships

and he clearly values them. Only, only those relationships. No others. Do you think he was the guy who like, he made some friends and then was like, I'm good. I made some friends in grade school and I'm never going to have new friends.

I think, listen, I mean, this is kind of an aside, but this is the downside of the coach GM combined job. Those are both extremely difficult jobs. And you're going to lose something, right? Trying to do both of them. And what often you see, as we saw with Doc Rivers with the Clippers, what you often lose is a energy in searching beyond the horizons of your experience as a coach in the league. And what happens, it's almost a joke.

What happens is you end up relying on the players. that you have coached or played against you as a coach in your past career. And, man, is Tom Tibadoe doing that? Acquired Jimmy Butler already, right? Yeah. Has now acquired Lou Aldang, who for reasons. Derek Rose. Derek Rose.

It's like, who else, Kirk Hyrick is waiting on the call? Noah's out there. Noah's out there. And I think that that in and of itself seems like it has exacerbated the existing tensions with his younger players, with Wiggins and with Carl Anthony Towns, it's hard. Like, generational schisms are hard. We saw it with Kyrie Irving and LeBron James.

That's difficult. And then when you have a guy Jimmy Butler who's, like, looking to win now, and beyond that, just a different sort of guy, clearly. And has admitted it. It has admitted that he's, like, sort of fanatical and maniacal about chasing greatness, as he describes it. And there is a sort of generational divide. He's 29.

He'll be a free. agent in July. He can still get obviously the most money by staying in Minnesota, but there'd be like a $49 million, almost a $50 million difference if he decides that, you know, he wants that he doesn't want to come back. On paper, when they got Jimmy Butler, I was like, oh yeah, I really like this. This is transformative. It's going to supercharge Minnesota. These young guys need to teach them how to win. And now all of a sudden it's, this doesn't look like it's going great. And a big component, according to Woj and others is the Carl Anthony Towns Jimmy Butler schism, that those two guys just aren't really getting along. It feels like kind of Wiggins is kind of a pushover and we'll go along with

whatever. Tough times for Andrew Wiggins. Just gets run over. But the Carl Anthony Towns' Butler riff is real. And I wonder if you're Tibbs and you've got to choose between those two, because right now Carl Anthony Towns is eligible for the rookie extension that they could get done before the season even begins, if you got to pick one, it's probably still cat, right? It's got to. to be cat. At the same time, he is restricted, so where is he going? I think it would have to be cat. Do you want to alienate these young guys who's who projects to be, at least on the offensive end, one of the most exciting and promising young players in the league? There was a recent story on Vice, Michael Pena. Yes. Chouts to Michael. Michael Pina about Jimmy Butler and just the maniacal

nature of his workout regime, waking at 5.45 a.m. on the court by six. the crazy diet that he adheres to, which he never changes from. Do we get the sense that cat is that type of dude? Not really? That's no shots to him. No, it's just, it's hard to live up to that or to meet that same Jimmy Butler level of, you know, standard across the board. That's a lot of shit to do. So I could understand from Kat's point of you being like, man, now I got to, I got to listen to this guy all the time.

and now I have to deal with this. Like, certainly as a young star in the league, I would understand expecting that that would come with certain things, which Jimmy Butler is, his maniacal nature, is not going to clearly let Cat get away with anything. I think it's, this is troubling if you're a fan of the Timberwolves. Like, all logic would say, well, you have to choose Cat in this situation. But Tibbs is a different guy.

Tibbs is a different guy. You don't know what's going to happen with Tibbs. and this is why it makes it very interesting. In the Woj piece, he said that rival execs, quoting anonymous rival execs, expecting Jimmy Butler to become available by the February trade deadline. So they're looking at this situation and going

that this is sort of untenable. If you were a betting man, is he still on this team after the February trade deadline, or you think he's gone? I think he's gone. So some of the teams that have been floated, both New York teams obviously. New York Knicks.

Both L.A. teams because all four of those teams have max slots that they could just slide him right into. And then all of a sudden, your teams look a lot better with Jimmy Butler. Where would you let, if he's not on the Timberlilus, because again, on paper, when they first got him, I go, oh, man, this is great. It's perfect. This is exactly what they need. But in the vice piece that you referenced, Jimmy Butler was like, look, I don't understand. Like he said, some guys, they just want to get drafted.

Some guys just want to play in the league. Some guys just want to make a basket. That's good enough for them. Some guys, they want to be, you know, they want to be on a team and how to be. a role. He said, I don't understand not chasing greatness. This is how he's wired, right? And then, like, he decided he got there that there's some other guys that he's not going to name on the Timberwolves that, you know, don't have that same ethos and mindset. I wonder who it could be. But if he gets shipped out to the Clippers or the Knicks, or is he going to find a bunch of dudes who are wired for greatness?

I don't know. I don't know. I think the Clippers, honestly, is great fit in terms of what that team is trying. At least, I like it. Yeah, what that team is trying to do and also just, yeah, matches with the personnel they have, matches with the kind of direction that we want to go in, which is not tank, try to win right now and compete for eyeballs in Los Angeles. Does that get them over the top? I don't think so. The Knicks, listen, I love Jimmy Butler. I wouldn't make any moves right now if I'm the Knicks.

They're trying to build a young core. We'll talk about that in a bit. I would not trade for a player who is approaching free agency right now. I just wouldn't do it. Who else? They've got the Lakers and the Nets on there. The Nets, I mean, the Nets would be great. They need any kind of talent infusion.

And also the Nets, the thing is by the time the Nets are ready to be a good team, Jimmy Butler, I think, is old at that point. So there's a lot of teams that could fit in Jimmy Butler, but none of them ready to take that next step to really satisfy Butler in any kind of way. I would like to throw out one possible team that's ready to take that next step that could potentially satisfy him and the Philadelphia 76ers have a lot of money available going into free agency. I don't know how chemistry-wise what would happen there, but I do think that like, man, that'd be perfect.

That's exactly what they, he would fit in everything that they need. GM, John Gons. Yeah, wide open. Sixers, if you're looking for a GM, right? I know you say you are looking for a GM. You bring me in. We trade for Jimmy Butler immediately to two birds, one stone. Now who do you trade?

See, here's the issue. I mean, I'm happy to offload all the things that we were talking about for Kauai before Kauai went to Toronto. I mean, you've got that 2021 unprotected Miami pick. That's in the mix automatically. You're going to have to throw in Dario Sarge, probably. And then the contention becomes what do you do about Markle Fultz? And the question is, as always, can the kid shoot? Is he healthy? How's he doing? What was this summer like for him? Only the people in that building know the answer to that. But as their new general manager, I'll be privy to that information and make the decision accordingly. But I'd think about it. I mean, Jimmy Butler is a top what? Top 12, 15 player in the NBA. He's an amazing two-way player. He's going to provide excellent defense on the way. He can shoot the three ball? Yes, please. Give me all of that. And I'm still not sold on the idea of can Ben Simmons and Markell Fultz with what we know about their show?

shooting play side by side. You can stagger them, but can they play together? I don't know. So give me Jimmy Butler. I'm on board with this. It'd be great. We did this already. All right, so last thing for I let you go so you can run off and do fun things with Milton.

We mentioned the Knicks. They had their sort of like little town hall thing. Some fun things came out of that. One of the things that came out of it, the Nix account tweeted this out. New head coach David Fisdale said some stuff about your boy, Frankie Smokes. That's right. 10 to 15 pounds of muscle, baby. apparently put on 10 to 15 pounds of muscle.

Fisdale was asked about Frankie smokes, and he said, you know, I'm not going to give Frank a position. You have multiple players that can dribble, play, and shoot. Why put him in a box? You know he can guard one to four, wait for it. Here's some spice. He's extremely elite. I like it.

Extremely elite. Not just elite. He's ultra elite. I like it. Uber elite. Well, listen, I think the idea of. Can he shoot? I didn't see him do that last year.

He's reluctant to shoot and his numbers were not great from range. Shooting in general, as in just launching one, is something we'd like to see more of from Frankie Smokes and a willingness to be aggressive on offense. And not just shooting, but like when he turns that corner off the pick and roll, go to the basket and try and score, that's something that would take his play to the next level. But I do think the idea of using him defensively

as a guy who guards one through four is positive and is a thing that will unlock the value of what he brings, already an elite defender by the numbers on the perimeter. Listen, it's a low bar for the Knicks. I feel like a big butt coming here. It's a low bar for the Knicks to say, hey, they're saying the right things. But they are saying the right things.

The team, this is a team in the past that has been saying troubling things, saying the wrong thing. So the fact that some of the statements that have come out of this Knicks Town Hall are things like Steve Mills saying we're not going to trade our draft picks. Yeah.

We're going to value draft picks. We're going to value draft picks. Great. I'm all in. Like this is what, like I'm sounding like I'm being facetious. But yes, like this is a team that traded, you know, two second rounders for Andrea Bargiani. Great.

Let's not trade our draft picks. We're not going to trade for a guy who we can get essentially in free agency. another thing that Mills said. Great. I'm very happy about that. Fisdell saying, we're going to kick ass this year. What does that mean?

Like, this is things we've heard before. I don't care. I'm all in. Fisdell saying that he essentially challenged rookie Kevin Knox to be the mentor for Mitchell Robbins who didn't go to college, the seven-footer who they got in the late in the draft who looked great in Summer League.

Seems like he'll foul out of every game, but looked like the kind of guy who's like thinks he can block every shot anywhere on the court. really interesting that Kevin Knox who's 19 years old is going to be essentially the veteran for this guy but like I like everything I've heard and again this is a team that

has said the wrong things and done the wrong things in the past so I'm feeling very positive that they are saying all the right things as director of spice and brand strategy and social media this is appealing to you were you last thing were you at all worried that Steve Mills he was asked

at the town hall about Christaps for Zengas and he wouldn't rule. I like that. He basically said that they weren't going to do anything to jeopardize Porzingis's long-term future, which again, saying the right things, good on you, Steve Mills, but also by doing that left open the possibility that, hey, you know, maybe he doesn't play this year. I'm fine with that. You would shut him down. You'd be cool. Listen, we have to, we kind of, like, trust the process. A little tanking. Trust the process. It'd be great to get another high pick and get another young, high ceiling guy in here at a very low,

price, which is how you build good teams. Your team, your soon to be employer, this Philadelphia 76ers, did that, just that thing, won 50 games, over 50 games. The shock of many last season and are one of the teams on the rise. I think that's the thing that the Knicks should look at doing if it makes sense. No reason to rush Porzengis back, you know, bring them back for the last 15, 20 games of the season and ease them back into it. But no reason to try and be good this year. Like, it's all about developing us back. developing these young players that they have. I think that smart, you and I have, following Lee Jenkins's lead, you are going to fix the Knicks. Hire me. I'm going to fix the Sixers. We're both going to go back east. Before we go back east, you got anything you want to plug what's coming up on binge mode, you're going to restart NBA desktop soon.

Tell the people. Oh, I can't. NBA desktop. We're already starting. He told me an idea, and it's people, I'm so excited about this season of desktop. Don't want to spoil it now. NBA desktop coming back in about three weeks. ringer's NBA coverage obviously spinning up as we head towards a season, binge mode.

We're going into book six, Half Blood Prince, taping those episodes this week. Find them everywhere. Stay tuned to the ringer.com where lots of great stuff is happening, including from your guy, future Sixers GM, John Gonzalez. Jason Concepcion and Milton. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Jason's the best. We love him.

We love Milton. We're going to bring Palo in just a second, but first, a word from our sponsors. Today's key check is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go. We're hiring a simple, fast, and smart. A place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. That place is ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. ZipRecruiter sends your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there. With their powerful matching technology, ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. As applications come in, ZipRecruiter analyzes. each one in spotlight's the top candidates, so you never miss a great match. ZipRecruiter is so effective that 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. And with results like that, it's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is the highest rated hiring site in America.

And right now, our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address. It's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer MBA. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer MBA. ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. ZipRecruiter It's the smartest way to hire. And now, let's bring in the champ, Palau-Ugetti.

All right, joining me in the studio, one of our favorites here at the Heat Check podcast. I haven't had him on since his new title bump. Palo O'Gedi is here. Tell him the new title. I'm now staff writer. Staff writer, Palo O'Gedi. Congratulations, my friend.

We are very excited. You should be excited. The people should be excited. And now you're out there writing all kinds of stuff. And one of the stories that you wrote as a staff writer is up on the ringer.com right now. I highly encourage everybody to check it out. It is a look behind the curtain into the world of personal trainers for NBA stars and superstars. Yeah. I mean, it's honestly a very fascinating topic. I think I became interested in it, you know, through getting to know some of these trainers because I'm like, I'm working on a story about a player. And it's like, okay, who are some people to talk to? The guy he's training with. And then, you know, you get into it.

You see how it's basically a subculture of the guy behind the guy, right? The guy you see in the Instagram video working out with your favorite player and who is that guy and how did he get there. That's how it started, right? And once I talked to 10, 11 trainers, I got to the point where it became a story about just where the industry is going in general. Yeah. Especially so how Instagram has made it into business. Like, guys have hundreds and thousands of followers and they, make money off of it, right? They get new clients off of it. I think the thing that matters more for

the NBA is just how do teams deal with that? Yes. Which is something I try to hit on in the piece, but also just how much that's become a thing that players want to do, have their own guy. I'm fascinated by it. I think like there's a number of different things that resonated with me. One, it feels like a relatively recent phenomenon. Obviously, guys have always been working with NBA players have always been working with trainers during the off season, but it feels like within the last five years or so, it's really exploded that now all of a sudden you do see these camps, right? Like here in LA, Pierce Sweat with Drew Hanlon is a big one. And like you've got the camp in Florida and like they're like regional different groups. And like these NBA players who during the

NBA season are on rival teams or might be competitive or all of a sudden piling around because they've got the same trainer. So it creates these like sort of subsets of allegiances and alliances. And you end up seeing guys playing pickup games like. all over the, like we saw LeBron James and Ben Simmons doing that this offseason. But yeah, how do teams deal with that? Because I think sometimes, especially like I'll use Markle Fultz as an example, he had an issue where he was using his own personal trainer and it screwed up his shot. And then he changed to Drew Handlin this, this season. We'll see what happens and whether or not it works out. But I would imagine that not all teams are thrilled about that. Yeah. So I think

it has evolved, right? Where it's one of those things where, for example, I talk Tim Grover, who was Michael Jordan's guy. And he's kind of the pioneer of this thing. And he said his job was always to communicate with the team. What do you want? Then let me do that. Now, I think the line has been blurred a little more. You know, teams are now forced to not only embrace, I think, the personal trainer,

but also make sure that they have a relationship with them. I talked to one guy, Cody Toppert, who's an assistant for the Sons. And he said, like, pretty much half of his job is knowing where the Sons players are going to go in the summer and who they're going to train with and keeping up a good relationship with those personal trainers because they have some sort of power now and that's, and it's interesting

that you brought up Hanlon and Fultz, if you think about it and I said this in the piece, Hanlon's one of the few people who really knows how Fultz is doing, right? And he has that kind of power on how much information he disseminates or maybe the team tells them how to disseminate but just that relationship is fascinating

because they now are here to stay, right? The trainers, it's just a thing that every player wants, even the guys that are coming up as one agent told me, like these guys are almost helping us recruit these guys because they get with them earlier than we could ever get into it. I wonder with some of the team like what kind of friction there could potentially be because I had talked to and I won't mention the trainer's name but I had talked to one one trainer who was a pretty significant group. I wouldn't say he's like the top tier

handling group but I would say like a like you know one A to somewhere in there right and I was like you know what if you're doing something that the team doesn't want you to do or that maybe they don't want their guy working out with you. And he was basically like, tough shit. They can't really do anything about it. It's the player's choice. Yeah, well, that's the thing, right? We talk about so much how much players exert their player agency and their power with free agency

and just with how much they control the narrative and all that. You know, LeBron is obviously the prime example of that. But now this is another way in which they're expressing their power, which is like, hey, this is my guy and I want to train with them. And teams kind of have to be more open-minded to that, which is just a thing that I think only in the last be years they've recently come to embrace. You know, when there was one trainer who told me, like, he started working out with a guy who wanted to do more and wanted to improve.

And he immediately got smothered by a team because they were like, okay, do this, do this and not that. Right. You know, so there's still tension there. Like, it hasn't all gone away, but it's definitely been more embraced than not. What about, like, just the level of skill? Because sometimes I think, you know, like, we look at the NBA and we expect it, like, this is the top and the pinnacle of the profession, right?

The head coaches are all the best in their profession. Head coaches get a lot of heat, but like, there's only 30 NBA head coaching jobs. And then they've got a subset of assistants. And like, these jobs are incredibly hard to come by, ergo they should be the best in their profession. Right. Similarly, once you make it to the NBA, even the worst NBA player is the best in the world, right? Right. With these trainers, some of them I feel like just pop up out of nowhere.

What level of talent are we looking at with some of these trainers? Are there trainers who maybe are capitalizing on? and say like Instagram over actual basketball coaching skill? There's definitely a perception, whether that's completely false or not, like that because the bar for entry has been lowered, that's something Grover talked about, which is, you know,

he doesn't want to come off as like the old kind of French guy, but he did say that he thinks the bar has been lowered for what you need to be or what you need to do to get into the training business. And that's partly because of Instagram, like anybody can kind of get that going. But, you know, most of these guys come from,

basketball backgrounds where they played at a D2 college level or even went abroad. And I think something I maybe didn't touch on in the piece is just if you notice a lot of these guys are just kind of small white guys for lack of a better term of description. But they have the footwork and the handling ideas in their mind that they're able to translate to a player. Right. And it's about, you know, all these guys like they told me like they put in a lot of film hours and practice these moves so that they can relate to relate them to the player.

And I think I'm sure that maybe it's not as. refined as it once was in terms of like what you needed to be and have educational background of like training. Right, right. Some of these guys do have that, right? Like, you know, one of the guys who works with Pelicans, he has a degree in physical science and all that and exercise. So that's a different thing.

But it is become a thing where I think guys can now dedicate themselves to film and to studying players and to making connections. And soon enough, you'll have some sort of clientele. What is the interpersonal relationship like between the trainers? Is there heat between certain training groups? Like, do some guys, because I would imagine, you know, in any profession, right. There are people you gravitate towards who are like-minded, even if they don't work at your, like,

you know, we're journalists. So when I'm out covering an NBA game, I'm seeing people from the athletic or from S-I or from Bleacher Report or ESPN. And there are certain little factions. And you go, oh, that person's really good. And you go to somebody, I'm not sure about that guy. Is there a heat? It's kind of inevitable because each person has their own approach.

And especially with the divide of social media, there's definitely the anti-self promotional guys and the guys that say, hey, this is part of the game. This is what's got me here. Maybe the older guys are more like, all right, I have to adapt to social media and the more recent guys are more...

Twas ever thus. It's true. You're like 18 years old and already staff writer and I don't have Facebook. There you go. Yeah, so there's a small generation will divide to age gap divide, if you will. So that inevitably causes some tension.

And then there's the other aspect of it, which is because this is such an regulated industry, you know, LeBron has this guy, right? Everybody knows who he is, but he's not actually, like, out there publicizing it all the time, right? But he can show up to a gym and- Yeah, he's LeBron's guy. You get, that's a carte blanche. Right.

But LeBron can still go out of his way to work out wherever he wants, right? There's no contracts, no writing done where it's like, okay, you can only train with this guy. You can only trade with me, right? Trainers are just kind of happening to go at the whim of the player of like, sure, he shows up. in New York and he's working out with somebody else. And that has in turn created some sort of tension where it's like, okay, you shouldn't publicize every player that comes into the gym because not all of them are your clients or should you. You know, and like, and there's a gray area. And there's also just like, okay, this is part of what's gotten that guy's success to that level

is being promotional about the training industry. But at the same time, there are people who don't agree with that. It's a fascinating piece. You did a great job with it. Well deserved on the promotion. I encourage everybody to go read it on the ringer.com. You also wrote a piece that I wanted to get into. We can't talk enough Lakers on this podcast because frankly, we want you to download and listen. So the Lakers and the rest of the NBA are reporting for training camp. Later on this week, Magic and Rob Polinka will be hosting the media for a media availability. You wrote a piece about, should we be more worried about Lanzo Ball? Should we? I mean, what kind of minutes are we looking at between Rondo and Lanzo? Is that relationship something that could possibly arrest his development, how's his health? What are we looking at with

Lonzo? Well, this was based off, you know, the small bit of, I guess, update news, if you will, that in the show, you know, the reality show that the Ball Family does, which, I mean, I don't know about you, but I didn't not know that was still going on. Did not know. Did not watch it when it was, and I was aware of it, still not watching it. So, but the point is he said Lonzo did in this, in one of the episodes that, you know, they have, they took the meniscus out of, in a procedure, that he had, he had an injection at the end of the year that the Lakers reported, and then it was reported again in the middle of summer that he had torn his meniscus. And I think what came out of this was just they did a partial removal of the meniscus,

and that's limited the amount of recovery time, but it could potentially linger into the future. If we follow other like meniscus removal cases, right? The point is Lonzo is going, he looks healthy, right? We've seen videos of him working out, Lakers. He was dribbling and stuff. I saw him doing stuff. I'm like, yeah, it looks all right. He's adjusted his jump shot a little bit,

which is kind of interesting. It's not so much of the slingshot. Sure. It went from completely hideous to only, like, partly hideous. Yeah, exactly. So I think my point in the abuse was just the margin is very, like, thin for him. Because, yeah, he's a second year player. You're still going to expect him to develop.

But at the same time, there's LeBron now, and then there's Rondo, right? So what is that going to look like for him if he maybe just gets hurt for a week or two, you know? And Ronne takes over. and the team is suddenly better? You know, what is that split going to be between him and wrong? I'm not sure about that. There's so many storylines with this Lakers team

that I'm like, I'm already, I feel like we're already at full sprint with them, but one of them is, yeah, how do you take a kid whose primary asset is his ball distribution, right? Like who is really good with not being a ball stopper on offense and keeping it moving,

and that's like the number one thing he adds offensively. And what happens to his development when he suddenly plays with two of the best, passes of their generation, right? Right. And one, and LeBron, who's maybe the best, one of the best passers ever. I mean, what does that do to Lonzo Ball when his shooting was suspect last year? I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I think we kind of run with this narrative that we need that the Lakers or a team needs to surround LeBron with shooters. I think him and Lonzo would work pretty perfectly in my mind. I just think that any sort of stumble is just going to be much more magnified now because there's a literal competitor right there. Like, I think Rondo may say the right things and be like, yeah, partly going to be a mentor to Alonzo in some way. I don't know about that. Like, I feel like Rondo still wants to play.

And especially play with LeBron. Honestly, that might be like one of the top storylines for me besides just any LeBron-centric stuff, which is just like how the relationship between the two of them is going to be and how are they going to be using on the court. Yeah, well, that and then like just if we were going to put them into two buckets, like you've got the young guys that they were trying to develop last year, right? and I still think Ingrams is their second best player. Then you've got Coosma and you've got Lonzo and you've got Josh Hart. And then you've got this cast of castoffs that Polinka and Magic went and used to like pat out the roster. And I'm like, okay, well, what happens when you're trying to get Lance Stevenson on the court or Rondo or, you know, Trail McGee or whoever? Like how do those two groups, the young and old, the veterans and the up-and-comers coexist?

who's getting the minutes? How is Luke Walton deploying them? Is he sending them out in platoons? There's so many different things here. So many different things. It's really funny to me because it's kind of like the NBA in a nutshell within the construct of one specific team. Like you have literally the young guys like you said,

the cast-offs and you have the superstar and the young like up-and-coming coach. And it's just like, and not to mention in one of the most storied franchises in the league. So it's just you could almost run an experiment, like a season-long experiment on the Lakers because it's, they're going to be absolutely fascinating. Yeah, we're going to have to really pace ourselves with the Lakers this year. It's been a lot. One of the things that I was wondering about this, like, are you on board with this Lakers?

I feel like the Lakers are a very divisive topic, not just within the NBA writ large, the greater NBA community, but specifically here at the Ringer. Like, people are either like, no, they're not going to be very good. They're probably going to miss the playoffs or they're going to be better than expected and they're going to be one of the better teams in the West. Yeah, I'm going to stay very on brand and go in the most. middle of that, which is just like, I think they're just going to be like the fifth or six seat, and they're going to be fine because it's LeBron and I don't want to, I'm not going to be the person

to sit here and doubt, LeBron. And I think when you look at the roster, it's good. Brandon Ingram is bound to get even better, which already puts them probably at number two on the team. And the rest of the guys are all improving. The castoffs, I'm a little worried about because I don't know how they're going to fit and all this. But I think the goal and probably what the Lakers hope is that the young guys can eventually be. take most of them in it. And the cast house just become role players, which is what they would thrive in. That's used the Oklahoma City Thunder as like a baseline because they were the middle of the playoff pack in the Western Conference last year. And like sort of like, we looked at them and we're

like, ah, they should be better, but they never really were. And then they get a first round bounce better or worse than the Oklahoma City Thunder this year. Well, I am extremely high on the thunder. And over the last week, for some reason, I've decided to really lean into that take and say that the Thunder are going to finish second in the West. Right. As Russ was getting shut down for a month for surgery? Well, it was awkward timing. So I think they're going to do a little bit worse than the thunder, but I think they'll fall, like I said, in that middle, like four to six seed. Right in that area. I'm in on the Lakers this year. I mean, like, he got the king. How could you know? I mean, look, look what he did with Cleveland last year. That team was bad all year long for

various purposes. First, they had chemistry problems and injury issues. Then they blew it up and brought in a bunch of guys who did not play well at all. And LeBron bootstrapped them into the playoffs and and then into the NBA finals yet again. And if not for J.R. Smith's meltdown would have stolen a game against the Warriors. And who knows what happens after that. Give me a LeBron James and the Lakers. Why not? It's going to be fun this year.

And you can say like, oh, the East is bad and whatnot. But I do think the West is extremely competitive. But every night you're going to have the best player on the floor. Like, I cannot stress that enough. Is that helpful? Yeah. Generally pretty helpful. Paolo Ogetty, go read his stuff on the rigger.com.

Anything you want to plug? No, I just go read the trainer story. and read the trainer story and then he's going to have like 72 more stories by the time you finish that there'll be that many more for you to read from Palo Palo

Esco blog thanks man Thank you All right that's Palo we love him and now one of the guys that we also really like hearing from Michael Vin Booshakalaka

he's heating up All right joining me in the studio he's world famous now gang I mean he has a very popular Sixers podcast called the Wrights to Ricky Sanchez podcast which of course frankly everybody already knows about it

But on top of this, world-renowned big-time Hollywood TV comedy writer, Michael Levin, is here. Hi, John. Not big enough to get to watch your dogs last weekend, though. You were going to watch my dogs. You didn't have to watch my dogs because you were too busy going around with the Hollywood muckety mucks. Tell everybody about the show that you are doing with Ben Simmons and some guy, LeBron James, I think, is attached to it. Yeah, crazy. We sold a pitch. My writing partner in iPad. Patrick Kang. We sold a pitch with Warner Brothers to NBC to make a show sort of inspired by Ben Simmons's life. And it's with LeBron's production company, Spring Hill. Some good folks over there. It's crazy to see him. It's amazing. I'm so happy for you. Like this is, I kind of, you kind

to let me in a little bit to tell me when it was happening. And we were very excited and keeping our fingers across, but it was one of those like knock on wood things you don't want to jinx it. And now there's nothing to jinx. Like, you're doing it. Yeah. Well, we sold the pitch. And so we're writing the script and hopefully they pick it up to pilot and then hopefully they pick it up to series on that stuff. I know you can't tell us a lot about it because this is like all very close hold, but the basic gist is it's basically built around the family, right? The family aspect of Ben Simmons and his brother and, right? Did I do that well? Yeah, yeah. I use words for a living. Yeah, so it's Ben, they come from a mixed race family, Ben and his white brother who's 10 years older from

Australia and moved to Philly to be the number one pick on the NBA draft, best prospect. kind of stuff. It's crazy to even say out loud. So it's like a six. It's called Brotherly Love. It's a Sixers show. It's a Philly show. And it's a mockumentary, right? Basketball's mockumentary, yeah. And hilarity ensues. Yeah, well, fun making fun of the, you know, like the hard knocks and the 30s and all that fun stuff. Well, I've read, I've read some of your scripts before you sent me some other things that you've written. You worked, uh, just to let me just tell you what a big time Hollywood TV comedy writer I have sitting across me right now. I'm blushing. Worked on how I met your mother, worked on the grinder.

which way underrated, trial and error, critically acclaimed, hilarious, and now his own deal with your writing partner. Patrick Kay. Yeah, it's wonderful. So things are good. Appause, applause, applause. I'm very excited about this. Like you mentioned with your podcast partner, Spike Eskin, on the rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast.

And by the way, Jason Concepcion was just on another ringer staffer. You guys are basically just plowing through all the non-band ringer staffers. That's right. We're poaching you one at a time. You're like the new athletic. We're all going to work for the Reuters to Ricky Sanchez. And we pay very handsomely. Yes, excellent.

I can't wait to see my check. On that podcast, Spike had said, hey, you know, I wonder what kind of conflicts of interest this one. Because now you're just, now Ben Simmons is the greatest player in the NBA. Well, I don't have to lie about that. All right. So let's talk some sexers. I'm excited to talk some Sixers with you because we do that regularly when we're just sitting around. And the Sixers, I don't know if you know this.

Still don't have a GM. Don't have a GM. No GM. Is that something they want to get? I think so. So they took a swing at Darryl Morey and David Griffin in the offseason. Keith Pompei reported that they didn't want David Griffin because they wanted to find somebody who would, quote, make collaborative decisions instead of a GM who will have final say. Strange. But so most recently they have brought in Rockets executive vice president, Gerson Rosas, jazz assistant GM, Justin Zanak, Warriors director of player personnel Larry Harris.

they went back to Zanik and Rosos for second interviews. Took them out to dinner. Oh, I like that. Where do you think they went to dinner in Philly? It's been a while since you've lived in Philly. You're not really up on the restaurants, right? No, I would say, you know. Like maybe like a Barclay Prime or, you know.

I was going to say the Works in Richborough. Get a buffalo chicken cheesecake. I like that idea. I personally would take them to like New Wave Cafe, shouts the New Wave. Or Zahav is really nice. These are all the places that you go when you go back. High school Hans.

They're also talking about potentially. interviewing in-house candidates. So after some pesky online media outlet blew up Brian Colangelo's association with burner accounts. I'm honored just to be here. They had to sort of have this

stewarded by Brett Brown, this consortium of front office executives that includes Mark Eversley, Ned Cohen, Alex Rucker, and Elton Brand, who were sort of like bootstrapping the entire front office operation together in conjunction. But so all of those guys will

evidently be still in the mix or being interviewed for potential promotion to general manager. You don't like it. You want to go away from it. How is this not weird? We're going to interview everyone and we're going to interview other people outside. And we want, where others of these guys get the job, we want them to keep the job. Stay here. We're not going to, we might not hire you, but we also want to, we promote you a little bit.

It just feels like also they're thinking, you know, people think like two steps ahead. The Sixers are thinking, like, they can see. No steps. They're wearing blindfolds and they can see their eyelashes. And that's as far as their thing. One of those things that horses wear the blinders. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting because Joshua Harris, majority owner for the Sixers, told Wojj that this wasn't going to be some big tournament, he said.

That there were like a small number of elite sitting GMs that they would be interested in. Obviously, Darry was one of them. That didn't work out. And then there were some other guys who were up-and-comer. that they wanted to interview. I think that obviously is the Gerson Rosa, Justin Zannick,

and crew, right? I wrote a story last week you found it on the ringer.com, shameless plug, where I had talked to some various league sources and other executives around the league.

And as one person put it, he's like, I don't know if they know what they want. Yeah. Or what they're doing. Well, I mean, I think,

so for whatever you think about the Sixers' ownership group, when they hired Sam Hanky, there was a, clear defined goal. We're going to bring in this young and up-and-coming general manager, executive, and we're going to empower him to put in place a long-term vision for success.

We're not going to be about today. We're going to be about tomorrow. Now, they've had a hotlight turned on them by the illegal office and some other owners about tanking, and they gave up on it. But initially, when they started it, they knew what they wanted. Then they bring in the Calangelo's, and they go the other way. They wanted to, you know, quote-unquote, relationships, appeal to the old guard. basically go the exact opposite way of Sam Hinky.

That also didn't work out for different reasons, but they had an idea of what they wanted to accomplish. I don't know what they want to accomplish right now. I think they just want to stay out of the news a little bit. It's been a lot. It's been a weird season with the Fault stuff, with the Calangelo stuff. I mean, we don't even talk about Namanya Bializa,

like signing with the team and then leaving. It's just there's the, it's the, it's the, I forgot about that. It has been. Since this new ownership took over, and some of it is their fault, some of it is not, the wildest organization in sports for so many different reasons. Yeah. Starting with the whole Bindem fiasco.

They've had two different. Well, yeah, you're right. You're right. Really, since they took over, I mean, not even just two, but they've had three front offices that were cults of personality, right? Like, for different reasons when you had Doug. They inherited Doug. Right. They inherited Doug.

and he was a, Doug Collins was a big figure and you didn't like him, but he was a big figure, right? In the NBA and off he went. Then Sam came in and everybody, well, we love him. And then Sam went and then the Calangulas come in and they attracted a lot of attention too. So maybe that's it. Maybe that is a component.

And if that is part of the thinking that they want to hire somebody who will just do the job and not be the story, I don't know that I fault them for that. Yeah, I just don't know that I think they were dealt an odd hand with the timing of the Calangelo thing. And then it was like, we don't want to rush it, which I get.

And so they got through the draft, they get through free agency, which was kind of nothing for the Sixers. And now... But the search didn't begin. So I wrote about this multiple times where, yes, 100%, the timing of the story, not good for them, right? You're not going to hire anybody or even start a process to hire anybody right before the draft and free agency. All the good candidates are already locked in with their teams. And they've got, like, proprietary boards and, like, information and ideas of how they they want to attack things and they're not going to all of a sudden quit and come over and spearhead

your group. It would be a bad look for them. It would be next to impossible to actually execute. You're going to have to do it after all that stuff happens. But the period, the window between, you know, like say summer leagueish and the start of the NBA season, that's not a bad time to look for a general manager. And like as recently as like a month and a half ago, when they announced those blanket promotions for Everisleon and Cohen and Rucker and Brand where it just felt like it was kind of like a PR push. Like, hey, they're still here and doing stuff. I was told that like the search hadn't really been kickstarted in earnest. Now, it feels like there's been more of it recently. But if you wait until there was a report by John Johnson from WIP in Philadelphia,

that they were thinking like, hey, maybe we will just wait till next offseason and do it then. Then you're right back in the same boat. That's the same problem you had before. Right. I think that there's, there are very few organizations more susceptible to criticism than the Sixers. Less susceptible to they don't like being criticized and they react to it.

Nailed it. Stuck to landing. So I think that they were like, we're fine with this. We got Brett. We got these other guys who we like.

We want to keep them around. And you know what? The off season's pretty much over now. Anyway, let's just hold for a season and we'll start fresh, let's say, Mayish of next year.

And then a bunch of criticism came. Yeah. For people being like, well, that's weird. You're just not going to have a GM. And Brett's like, clearly doesn't want to be the GM.

No, he's got stuff to do. He's got stuff to do, and it's a bad idea, and he's acknowledged that it's a bad idea. But it's like, it's like working, it's fine. And now they're like, well, we, here are the candidates that we've been always planning on interviewing anyway. And it's just like, it seems again like there's just, there's no plan in place.

I think that in some respect, it's like the off season's over and you don't need anybody, but Jimmy Butler seems to be available. Okay, this is an excellent point. You need the GM for that kind of stuff. And we just found out, Isaac told me in my year just as we started that, We don't generally do breaking news in the podcast, but Jimmy Butler, when he's meeting with them, the meeting is happening in L.A., not in Minnesota. So different parts of the country.

They're about to start training camp. Like, you'd think he'd be, like, ready to fly off to Minnesota. He'd already be there. He's not so much. So this is a situation where, yes, I would like to inquire about Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler, depending on, and earlier in the pod, Jason and I talked about this, would I want Jimmy Butler? Yes.

Would I be willing to give up some combination of Dario and that 2021 unprotected and, like, depending on what Fultz is looking like. Yeah, maybe. But I need to have that conversation with my GM or whoever's stewarding, whatever our vision is now and for the future. And when you've got this nebulous situation, this undefined situation, that complicates things significantly. Yeah. And Jimmy Butler is, I think, just to pivot to what the Sixers are, Jimmy Butler is a very good player. Yeah. But he's volatile. Well, chemistry-wise, yeah. It's a question. It's a question. And the Sixers have guys that need the ball a lot. And I worry about trading Foltz because if you trade him now, it's for below his value as a number one pick and an elite type of, you know, three level score and long defender and all that stuff. Or people aren't going to, he's not, he doesn't have a shot and he'll never shoot again and you change him for nothing.

So it's one or the other. It's a wide variance. It's a wide variance. I wouldn't trade him now. I just sort of hold on that. Right. And then I think they would probably want Covington. Covington's great and well liked in the Sixers locker room.

and you need somebody that will actually play defense next to Andrew Wiggins if you're Minnesota. So then what is it? Is it a Covington Dario, 2021? Is that sort of what looking for?

I don't know what Minnesota wants. But you need to have those conversations if you're the Sixers because they are theoretically one piece away whether that piece is a new guy or Fultz's miraculously healed shoulder or Ben Simmons and Embed working well together

and having a healthy offseason and becoming this powerhouse. What do you want to happen? Like if they decide, to promote Aversley or Cohen or Rucker, would you be upset? Do you want them to get out of that business and find an outside candidate, or are you

okay with one of the in-house guys? I think I am okay with one of the in-house guys. I know I'm excited. Yeah, I think Evertsley is probably the... Yeah, I would probably. I mean, that's my guess. The guy is that most experience and sort of has that assistant GM

communicating with everybody at like sort of next in line in the Colangelo stuff. I don't think Colangelo did a good job, Brian. I don't think he did a bad job either. He kind of did a nothing sort of skated by. So all of those guys have either ties to Colangelo

or the league office or both, and there are the Ben Dietrichs of the world who have been vocal on Twitter saying that they'd prefer not, right? Like, maybe even that was part of the hesitation on the Sixers, like not moving on quicker. Yeah. If they do go with one of those guys, you're okay with still that connection to the previous regime?

Yeah, I mean, I've been... When Samanky was here, we were obviously the most vocal people in the world. get out. I don't remember about how good it was going to be. Can you believe that that was only five years ago that he was hired? Yeah. It feels like we,

it has, the process has aged us in dog years. Yes, absolutely. But I think we undersold how good of a job he did. He didn't. I think if it's possible that we were too tame. This is the greatest take you've ever had.

From Michael Ovid of the Rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast, we didn't give Sam enough credit. Didn't. Could have gone further. because he like if we would have said hey the guy that replaces him can do fucking nothing for three years

can still be okay not fuck up mediocre guys one year deals just hold all your chips together and just hold and wait for guys to get healthy and wait for the picks to convey

and the picks to swap and just everything would work out fine and they'd win 52 games and go to the second round of the playoffs and be a top three team in the east with Cap Space yeah I mean the best thing that Colangelo did

was the Covington contract. I can't think of, I mean, I think Redick's great. I'm not just saying that because he's looming over my shoulder. Right, right. We have him. He's had around here somewhere getting coffee.

Yeah, he's giving around. But I think he was great for the locker room. I think he was great for on court spacing, all that stuff. But it's one year deals. Like, it's not game breaking, franchise changing stuff.

But the fact that Sam did set him up so well that everything's great. I know it's frustrating to look at it and be like, well, why haven't they signed anybody this off season? Like the Philadelphia impatience is kicking in. Well, But it is reaching a point where they're going to have to make some serious decisions, right?

Because they punted, they kick the can down the road to next off season, and that's fine. But then you're going to have to really decide where you're allocating all that extra money. What are you doing with these draft picks? Are you going to bring in another superstar? Like, how are you going to accomplish that if you are? Like, all of these things are decisions that need to be made, and it's going to require like some sort of vision. And if it is one of the in-house guys, I like all those guys. They're nice dudes.

They think they're smart. I'm fine with it. Like you said, not a sexy outside hire. You don't know. be okay with it. And I like Zannick and Roses, too. If it were me, I kept saying Gerson Rossos, Gerson Rossos over and over again

because anybody from the Darryl Morey tree, I'm in. He hires, he's an extremely smart person. He's been one of the best general managers in the league for well over a decade now. He already gave the Sixers organization Sam Hakey, unfortunately for reasons that we all know, they moved on

from him, but maybe they get another bite at the apple. I'd be okay with that. But you have to decide what's happening. And you mentioned, I I want to talk about a couple of the players here. Like, you mentioned faults. Like, this is critical, right? It's already like, what do you got in him and what are you doing? How do you feel about faults?

Like, what do you think we're going to say? I've heard he's shooting. I've heard he's shooting the basketball? I've heard good things. You've got to do that in the NBA. Yeah, I've heard he's pulling up a little bit. We'd like to see a little bit more shooting off the catch. Like to hear that he's hitting shots off the catch, especially if him and

Simmons are going to play together, he's going to be playing off the ball. You're optimistic? I don't know. I don't know. You're smiling. I've been in this like holding about this all summer. We're so long and it's like

well one day we're going to know we're going to know we will be able to see him and people will say he's shooting like he shot at Washington or he's dead. One of them, it's got me one of them. I don't know how it keeps happening. I don't know how we keep not having an answer to any of the questions.

Six or don't have a GM. We don't know if Fultz's shoulder is falling off. So you mentioned this like so there's a fascination with him for obvious reasons. I mean he was the number one draft back and you mentioned JJ a second ago

Shouts to ringer staff for JJ Reddick, who also moonlights as a basketball player. But he said on a podcast recently, like he was pretty pissed off at the media. Remember last year, like he read him in the riot act? Because it was like constant Markle Foltz watch, right, where there was video of him doing mundane things. And JJ made some good points in that he's only 19 years old. Our obsession with him as media members, like watching him do things. Like I could see as a basketball player where you'd get sort of frustrated with that. On the other hand, he was the number one draft pick.

this is our job. How could you not be fascinated with it? It is Philadelphia. And oh, by the way, isn't there some culpability for the Sixers just dangling him in front of the media every single time? What did you expect to happen?

Well, that was his call. Fultz wanted to... Yeah, that's true. I mean, like, they could have exercised like, well, just later. Yeah, just wait until it's not media period. For sure. Like, I don't, I don't, like,

I get both sides of it, but for me, obviously, as a writer and as a journalist, I go, yeah, man, like, this is kind of part of the business. you're in the NBA, it's the big leagues. He had the biggest cover of all time to weigh this out

and hopefully get better and look like a shot because the Eagles won the Super Bowl. Philadelphia was distracted. It's a little bit, yes. Had it came together in March and he was shooting again and would have been like,

oh, remember that, that was weird. Didn't happen. I wish it did. This off season, Eagles still won the Super Bowl. The Phillies were doing pretty well for a time. Still a little cover of like maybe a false just like He's in a gym.

Yeah. He's closed up. We're not seeing what's going on there. Drew Hanlon's got this. He's had cover. He just has to shoot. He just has to shoot. There's no more excuses.

It is sad that whatever's happening. One way or the other, we're going to get resolution. And that's why I'm saying. The story hasn't gotten any smaller. No, it's the same thing. It's the same story. It's the same story. From one guy who may or may not shoot to another guy who may or may not shoot.

Ben Simmons, we saw plenty of video. him all offseason working on his jumper. KOC because he's a maniac, broke down a video of him shooting with his opposite hand on James Corden. Are you optimistic that Ben Simmons can shoot now or shoot a little bit? I'm legally obligated to be. No, I'm just kidding. I don't think he's all of a sudden going to turn into, like, he's pulling up off the dribble

and he's, that becomes a weapon. I just need him to be able to spread the floor and shoot off the catch. That's it. A little bit, if they go behind on screens, just keep the defense honest a little bit. If that means like 75 threes for the whole season, if he shoots like 20 of 75 from three for the season, I will be happy. I'll be thrilled.

And we know he can hit those shots because he hits him in practice, but he feels, it seems like we haven't talked about it. Yeah. But it seems like he thinks he can get to the rim better or he'd rather use his teammates. And I get that. When I play basketball, I'm not a great shooter. I'd rather get to the rim.

I have teammates that I'd rather do. Charlie Widows, who I played ball with and Patrick Kang, both better shooters than me. I'll drive and kick. But you got to keep the defense on us and shoot when you're open and do that. So hopefully that becomes the case. 20 to 75, I'll be happy. Look, he's a really good basketball player even without a jump shot.

Yeah. So if he adds even a semblance of one, then all of a sudden you're off to the races. But even if it's just the Sixers team that we saw last year, they should still be pretty good. I want to remind you that you're on the He-check podcast and not the rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast when I ask you for this final question. Okay. Where do they fall in the Eastern Conference Packing Order? I would say, I mean, it just depends. I think all three teams at the top, Toronto, Boston, Philly,

they're so not, I want to say unproven, but there's question marks because we've never seen all of those teams together. We don't know what Toronto looks like with Kauai. They're clearly the three best teams, and then it's everybody else. Yeah, we don't know what Boston looks like with Kyrie and Hayward and all those guys, like, how's that going to work out? Al Horford played out of his mind in the playoffs last year.

Like, is that going to keep up. Your eye is twitching when you say that. Very strange. No, I don't want to talk about it. An involuntary reaction. I would say it seems, at least for this season, I would say it seems like Boston is at the top. And then depending on health and-

that's exactly how I... That's exactly how I... Then Toronto or Philly could be out of the way. Boston's so deep, and I know that Sixers fans hate to hear that, and I know Boston fans love to gloat about it, but I just look at their roster and I go, oh, my God, they were already good. Now they get back two All-Stars. It's crazy.

And then on that second tier right behind them, I have the Rafters and the Sixers one-in-A. You put them in whatever order. For sure. But this is another reason why a general manager would help Because who knows, you had a Jimmy Butler or another star at some point before the trade deadline. Now the complexion of the team looks better or different. And who knows how that elevates them.

Well, I think Wilson Chandler is going to help. And I know that it's not the sexiest signing, but I think, or the trade. But Boston has just like bodies that they can throw it guys. And we saw that JJ or Bellanelli or T.J. or guys that, I mean, Rishon, there's guys that just couldn't hang on the defensive end for the Sixers. and I think that they've, Miskala and Wilson Chandler and hopefully Zaireir Smith

when he's healthy, we'll be able to like body them a little bit. And also, if we're doing heat check podcasts, I'll throw some hot take at you. Okay, hit me. Boston's a worst team with Kyrie compared to, compared to playoff Terry Rozier.

That is madness. Terry Rozier, who everybody switched on to because he can't guard anybody, that Terry Rozier? Wait, Terry Rozier's a better defender than Kyrie. No, bigger bodies.

They were put him in the spin cycle and like every time, having switched on to bigger players. For sure. I mean, yeah, okay, I'll take Kyrie all day every day. I'm not saying Kyrie is a better, is the worst player than Terry Rozier. I'm saying Boston, the way that they're playing the playoffs, they're a better team with Terry out there because they can switch on to anything. And Kyrie, Kyrie will get exposed.

And it doesn't move the ball as well and can't get fouled as much. I mean, Terry Rozier went out of his mind in the playoffs. I was throwing phone rollers across the room. You saw it. watching television or watching Sixers games with you, especially playoff basketball with you, is very tense. It's very tense. I want to commend you because those are two of the best hot takes ever on the He Check podcast. One, that Sam Hinkie didn't get enough credit, and two, that somehow the Celtics will be worse with Kyrie Irving. And we're going to leave it there.

Mike Levin, you can listen to him on the rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast, and you can watch many of his very funny television shows, including be on the lookout for Brotherly Love, which is going to be. Emmy award winning once it gets made. Probably. To borrow from Most Def, buy his rookie card now after this year. Price not coming down. He's that talented. He's Michael Bin. I want to thank also Jason Concepcion.

I want to thank Palo O'Ggetti. Make sure that you check out all of the NFL shows on the Ringer Podcast Network as well as the NBA show. We're going to be ramping back up to a podcast for the Ringer NBA show every single day coming soon. Be on the lookout for all of that. I want to thank Isaac Lee for producing the podcast as always. and I'm going to thank you guys for listening.

We'll be back soon.