The Ringer NBA Show - John Collins’s PED Suspension, the Truly Bright Future Suns, and Anthony Davis’s Chicago Comments | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

We react to the breaking news that Hawks forward John Collins has been suspended 25 games for violating the league’s PED policy (2:45). Then, we discuss the Suns’ hot start, Devin Booker’s tear, and whether they can sustain a winning season in the West (10:38), before running down some news and notes of the last few days (40:32). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the NBA show on the Ringer podcast network is brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. We have had a lot of unpredictable things like the sun start that we will talk about and this disappointing John Collins news that broke this morning. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your heart.

home and auto insurance. Welcome to The Ringer MBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O.comber, aka Kevin O. Conflict, aka Kevin O. Candyland, A.K.A. Kevin O. shredder. Kevin. Verno,

what's going on this Tuesday morning? How are you doing? Well, you're what's going on. What an

unbelievable response to the virtuoso performance that you put on as a guitar soloist. I know you had to be incredibly pleased by the response

after we had mentioned it on Friday's episode. Then over the weekend you put it out and you know what? I do, I must tell you, I got a little bit of a bone to pick with you because I'm thankful that you tagged me and said, hey, here's Chris Vernon. I shouldn't have done that.

But my God. Yeah. I mean, look, for all of you that tweeted me over the course of the last six days, I didn't see it. Because all I have seen is responses to Kevin O'Connor's guitar solo for the last five days. In situations like that, so they have the mute conversation button on Twitter. On that tweet, you can just hit the little down arrow and click, mute this conversation. Then you won't get those notifications. But I tagged you thinking, oh, I'll put this on social because Chris mentioned on the show.

And then it's like, boom. I'm like, oh, damn, I probably should have just wrote Vernon instead of at Chris Vernon's show. But, you know, whatever. No, it was cool to see. I saw it all too. So I know that you got a lot of positive feedback. All right. Well, we have had a story break right before we are recording on this Tuesday morning.

And that is that the young star for the Atlanta Hawks, John Collins, becomes the second guy since the season began and the third guy since this summer that has been busted with the anti-doping program that the NBA has. 25 games over a quarter of the season. The Atlanta Hawks are going to have to be without John Collins because he tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs. This comes a week after we had DeAndre Aiton test positive and it has to sit out for 25 games and this past summer, Wilson Chandler.

And three, in a short span of time, including two, I think, very possible future stars in the league. This is shocking, considering the amount of guys in the past few years that we have not seen. I mean, this has not been an issue within the NBA ever, really. You know, I mean, you've got to go back to hard drugs in the 80s when they had a real crisis in the NBA. But in terms of performance-enhancing drugs, while it has hit every sport, I mean, I'm talking all the way down to golf, guys getting suspended. The NBA has not had an issue with this.

And some will roll their eyes and they will say, the NBA has had an issue with this and they just don't take it seriously. That's probably a debate for another day. What is without debate is they are taking it very seriously now if you have two of the young stars already missing over a quarter of the season. and this is a very selfish thing that has taken place. I know he did what everybody does. You know, I took something contaminated. But it is your responsibility as an NBA player. What you brought up about, you know, this not being an issue in the past.

I was reminded of something Derek Rose was asked about back in 2011. He was asked by ESB in the magazine, if one equals what are PEDs and 10 equals everybody's juicing, how big of an issue is illegal enhancing in your sport? And Rose said seven. It's huge. And I think we need a level playing field where nobody has that advantage over the next person. So, you know, this is now almost eight years, over eight years ago now that Derek Rose said that.

And like you said, Chris, it has not been an issue at all, at least in the public eye. So it is interesting that two fairly high profile players in DeAndre Aiton a couple weeks ago. and now today John Collins have been, you know, caught for that. It's just interesting that out of nowhere, out of nowhere, these guys are getting caught. It's very interesting of the timing of all this because it hasn't happened in years, man. And here's the thing. You have a lot of guys. I understand that weight training is different now than it ever has been in the past and that guys take care of their bodies better than they have in the past.

and they are more attentive to nutrition than they are in the past. That being said, there are so many guys with massive amounts of muscle in the NBA. And given that they are running every single night, it is sometimes, and especially, I thought it was a bigger deal maybe like five, six years ago, where I would be sitting there watching teams and I'd be like, oh, come on. Because these guys would look like some of them turned into bodybuilders. and they're running every single night. It's very hard to keep on a massive amount of muscle if you're running every night,

especially if you're doing sprints every night. And yet the guys got bigger, stronger, faster, just like they did in every other sport. And yet it was our belief that PEDs were of no consequence or not an issue in the NBA. I think the truth is probably they were an issue. and the league just didn't take it as seriously. There is no question now they are taking this seriously because that's too, I mean, that's two, you know, rookie sophomore, you know,

possible future All-Star guys, future of the league guys that are out now for a long, long time. And this is a significant loss for Atlanta, too. John, John Collins last seeing being one, of the NBA's best players rolling to the rim that Trey young john Collins pick and roll tandem with trey young according to chris hands set to return tonight he loses his partner in the pick and roll but not just the pick and roll a guy who has become a very effective floor spacer for the

Atlanta hawks has improved significantly as a three-point shooter so with Atlanta losing that player in collins this really hurts Atlanta's hopes of getting into the postseason if you look at the numbers Tray Young and John Collins last season when those guys shared the court together, they had, including this year, they had a minus 2.8 net rating, which is not good, but with Collins off the floor and Young still on, that plummeted to minus 11. So I think that number at least reflects the importance of Collins for Tray Young as a shock creator and the impact it has on everybody else. And now you wonder, who replaces him?

Is it somebody like Alex Lend, does he get more opportunities? Is it Bruno Fernando? Or could it even be Jabari Parker who gets put into that role? Because the Atlanta Hawks going back to preseason and a little bit during the regular season have used Parker as an on ball screener as a guy rolling to the rim. So he can replace the floor spacing that Collins provided. And maybe you start using him as a rim runner more. So I'm going to be very interested to see how the hogs adapt without Collins from the next 25. games. Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be Parker. I think that's going to be the guy.

And this is another great opportunity for Jabari Parker to take advantage of, but this is an absolute killer for them. I mean, you just gave the numbers from last year. And you've got to imagine that is with Trey Young, just figuring it out and having a dismal first couple months of the season before he really figured it out and got on that tear. And he started off this season, on that same type of tear. This is a killer. It really is to lose him because I think without question, he's the second best player on their team.

And he's also extremely consistent. Like you're pretty well getting it out of John Collins every night. I feel bad for the Hawks because this is, you know, they're super excited about this season. And you never know. In that Eastern Conference, you might have a chance at getting one of those. last seeds and then taking your lumps in the playoffs for the first time. But that outlook becomes very, very bleak with losing Collins for 25 games. It's going to be hard to get wins. He,

I mean, he is just central to their identity. Yes. They run so much pick and roll with Trey Young. And the guy's screening for him a lot of the time is Collins. And now that you lose that, it changes how you approach the offensive end of the floor in the half court. So that's why I think Parker Parker has to get plugged into that role and just get utilized in something that will be a lot different for him but has worked in little flashes

in preseason and in the regular season. I'm hoping it works for Jabari Parker because maybe this is the new type of role that's going to be big for him moving forward in his career. It will hurt them way more than the Aiton loss has hurt the Sons. Yes. The Sons last night

delivered the 76ers, Though they were without Joel Embed, they delivered them their first loss, 114 to 109 last night. And they are now well on their way to surpassing last year's win total. And frankly, any win total over the course of the last four years. It's been four years since they had more than 24 wins in a season, a combined 87 and 241. I got to see this team in person over the weekend.

And I tweeted about this and was effusive in praise. Seeing them up close and personal. Now, I'm not letting you celebrate a ton about the bright future sons because frankly, none of the bright future is there besides Devin Booker. Nothing. Alex Lynn, T.J. Warren, Tyler Ennis, Tyler Ullis, Bogdan Bogdanovich, Dragon Bender, Josh Jackson, DeAndre Aiton. Like, none of them, none of the bright future is there except for Devin Booker. And I will also say that you and I, I think both, we didn't like their offseason. You know, I wasn't crazy about the Rubio signing.

The Ubra signing was fine. And I didn't like what they did in the draft moving off the sixth pick, which was Jared Culver in order to take Cam Johnson and then getting Darius Arach back in that deal. But I'll tell you this. and I'll always be honest about what I'm seeing. I'm there. I've seen that 60 loss team come in many times, and I'm watching them on Saturday night,

and I'm thinking to myself, this is not a mirage. Now, I don't know what the ending win total will be, but if the expectation was that they are a peer of teams like the Grizzlies, that is not true. They are more of a peer of a team like Dallas this year, and I do think they have a real chance at fighting for one of those bottoms, seeds, especially given that Sacramento has been so bad this year already.

So that's another team that may fall back and be worse than what we thought they were going to be, as well as some others. Seeing them up close, they got a lot of real players on that team now. And I absolutely love Baines on that team and in the role that he is. He calls out everything defensively. and keeps the ball moving. And then offensively, Monty Williams has got that team sharing the ball

like a team that's played together for a long time. I was, I was mega impressed with them, Kevin. And then obviously last night, Booker goes off and they get the huge win. Can I just say in regards to the bright future sons, the reason why they have a bright future is largely due to that guy, Devin Booker.

Oh, stop. No. No, it's the truth. You don't get to do this. No. No. the whole idea was that they lost on purpose over and over again and they would end up being good because of it and that didn't have shit to do with why they're good.

He was 13th pick. I know he was. So the fact is that you have that blossoming star, I'm talking two and a half years ago. Two and a half years ago you have this blossoming star player and then moving forward, you're losing games, adding more talents,

and then cap flexibility comes to build around those. guys. But Booker is the key reason why. And Aitin, I still like as a player, even though he's out now. Aitin is still a very good talented player. And yes, with the Bright Future Suns, maybe it hasn't happened the way you expected. But Booker was and still is always central to that. Stop. And no, I'm not going to stop. In last night's game, we saw the manifestation of what he can become as a player. But that's ridiculous. They didn't have to suck to get Devin Booker. With the amount of versatility we saw from Booker in last night's game, dude, that was. a sensational performance against

some great defenders on Philly. I mean, Ben Simmons is a hard guy to score against, and he made life hard on Booker with some of the baskets that he had to score. But Booker's ability to create off the dribble using hesitations, change of pace, can score at the rim with either hand, pull up

from anywhere. Dude was awesome last night, 15 of 19 from the floor for 40 points. Outstanding. He was absolutely awesome. But I'm going to tell you, I watch them Saturday. There were times, where he just blended in with everybody else and it was equal opportunity. And that's how you know they're a real team because he wasn't like he just did his

efficient and they had a bunch of guys that took double-digit amounts of shots and they popped the ball around and got good shots. And I mentioned the Baines thing. I went and pulled this up because I wanted to see what their numbers are this year. They're second in the NBA in assists. But Baines, and again, this is all a small sample size, but their highest offensive rating this year is with him on the court. And he is part of that starting unit,

which is Rubio, Ubre, Booker, Sarich, and Baines. They have outscored their opponents on average by 19 points per 100 possessions, which is absolutely unbelievable. And as a team, they're shooting 47% from the field, 38% from 3, and then a unbelievable 80%. 82% from the free throw line as a team, which is just a great number, especially with how many games come down to the wire. They're a real team.

They are. They are no longer a laughing stock. And even when they brought off their bench, Javon Carter and Tyler Johnson, Mikkel Bridges, Cam Johnson, Frank Kaminsky, like, it was good. It was good, you know. I mean, they played well together and they kept the ball moving. Your point about, you know, how Booker blended in at certain points, I think with the Ricky Rubio signing, we talked about during this, talked about this during the summer. I was initially iffy on that signing because of Rubio's deficiencies as a spot-up shooter. I worried that might negatively impact Booker when he has the ball, an area that he's already gotten so, so, so good as a player. but I think I underrated but did come around to the idea of Rubio just alleviating pressure off of Booker as a playing maker and how that might impact Booker as a defensive player.

He is now back to being a high effort engaged player just like he was as a freshman at Kentucky. He wasn't a good defender in college, but he at least put an effort. And we're seeing that now with the Phoenix Suns as a part of a whole collective defensive unit that is trying hard and communicating. like you said with Baines, I think they're legitimately good on that end of the floor. And then with Booker, though, we are seeing so much more off ball from him just like this is, this was my big issue for years now. Everybody's like, Booker's a ball hog. Booker's a ball hog.

It's like such bullshit because Booker in high school and in college was a really savvy off ball who could cut off ball for layups at the rim who could relocate off ball and shoot threes off movement and we're seeing that again now because he actually has a competent playmaker in Rubio who helps facilitate those offensive possessions for him. So we are seeing a more complete Devin Booker on the court with an actual competent supporting cast. Will the Sons make the playoffs and the loaded Western Conference? I don't know. But what we are seeing is a significant step forward a little bit ahead of time for I thought, but as at least a positive indicated moving forward with this franchise building around their star in Devin.

and hopefully second star in eight and once he actually gets back, you hope. Yeah, you know, we don't want to lose our mind too much because it's early in the season. We've done this before with teams that start off well. I just told you, I was very impressed with the way they played. And you're always a three game losing streak away, right? If they caught a three game losing streak, now they're five and five and nobody, right, then we're back to, oh, well, but I do think, I do think they're going to have a bunch of wins. I do. They're not going to have anywhere close to the, uh, to the season that they have.

had the last couple of years. That's my point, right? This is, yeah, even if it's a flash and a pan, we're, we're seeing the positive indicators that for years people have ignored with Devin Booker specifically, actually being supported by proven veterans who help elevate his game and he can help elevate theirs. I went back and looked too. Baines had like the best net rating on the, on the Celtics of anybody that played real minutes last year. I mean, just seeing him, I loved him. And I think it's I think he blends in perfect. Haley O'Shaughnessy said this on a podcast about two weeks ago.

She said, all right, you guys ready for a hot take? And she's like, the sons will be better off with Ait and Out. And everybody's like, oh, that is a hot take. Look, he is a supremely talented player. I do think Baines is a great fit with them. You always have to have role players and stars. And I think this enables Booker to be Booker and takeover games when he wants to. because Baines keeps the ball moving

and Rubio keeps the ball moving and Ubrey even to his credit and Saurich too. Like they've got they've got a good blend there with that starting unit. The way this hurts is they don't have the Aiton loss means they don't have much size.

When they take Baines out, they pretty well have to play Frank the Tank at center, which is tough when the other team's got some big guys. Friends look pretty good though. Yeah, but the Bain signing my initial reaction, and maybe it was an overreaction, is this is the most underrated, you know, acquisition that there's been. I know it was a trade, but I mean, that guy gets paid $5 million a year and he really impacts winning.

I love him. I love Baines. And in last night's game, in a situation with Joelle Ambied out for the Sixers, of course, had him been played, Baines would have been on him. But with Embed out, Baines just completely from the. start of the game put the clamps on ben simmons philadelphia needed simmons to step up in last science game and he stunk he was not good in last science game two of eight from the field six points uh on the offensive and on the floor he was not an impact phoenix pretty much ignored him a lot of the time when he was hovering in the dunker spot they were unconcerned when he was uh rolling towards

the rim i think with ben simmons it was a good example last night of his continued offensive limitations on the season Simmons has been just tremendous defensively like I said earlier he made it difficult for Devin Booker sometimes there's nothing you can do about a great score just getting buckets but on the offensive end those limitations remain and they remain in concern for if you're looking ahead towards the postseason when teams are game planning because Simmons on the air shooting 40% in the half court 56% from the free throw line three of 14 on postups and he still hasn't tried a three and he's only tried one shot. outside of the paint. Simmons still is a player who struggles to beat smaller players on mismatches.

He still has a hard time scoring around the rim against length like Baines, who length without following him. Simmons needs to get better. He needs to start becoming a competent shooter by switching hands. He needs to get better at finishing with his left hand around the rim. Those are areas, despite all his strengths, despite him being already a good player, that he needs to get better at in order for this team to not have a severe negative in half-court situations. I agree with you. I don't know about the hand thing. You are more of the hand expert than I.

And I know this has been one of your points for many, many years. He does do a lot of things great. But you look at that team and you do wonder, is there Achilles heel going to be shooting when it comes to big time playoff games? Because some of these teams, they're going to bury 1523. on you now with the way the game is played and you're at a real disadvantage when you don't have. And especially when

they've lost a couple guys that did knock down shots for them last year, i.e. Jimmy Butler, i.e. J.J. Reddick, who averaged over 17 points a game for them last year. But that the Sun's team, very, very good. I do want to mention one thing about

seeing, oh, big, big, big credit is they got a real coach. And Monty Williams, first things first on coaching a team, he's got them playing hard. And then the X's and O's come, right? And he's got them playing hard and sharing the ball. And Lord knows they have done their players a real disservice by just switching

coach after coach after coach. I think they've landed on one. And you can tell those players really respect him. And he's got them playing hard and sharing the ball with each other. Observation-wise, seeing them in person, and for everybody that goes to an NBA game this year and happens to see the sons in person, I want you to look for this

because Kevin, I was blown away. I think McKell Bridges, who comes off their bench, obviously we know him from Villanova, I think he has the longest arms I have ever seen in my life. And I went and looked it up. He's got a 7-1 wingspan. But it's on like a 6-7 frame, you know, like Janus has got like a 7-3 wingspan, but he's like, damn near seven-foot-tall.

This guy, his, I can't, his, to like get into, like, if you, if you're standing up and you put your hand in your pocket, right? You'd have a slight bend in your arm, most anybody, right? His have got to be like 90 degrees to reach in his pocket. I have never seen anybody with longer arms than McKell Bridges. And I guess I just hadn't noticed before, but I've spent half the. game looking. I'm like, this is crazy. I've never seen a guy with this kind of a wing span on that kind of a frame. And their bench is kind of fun, you know, with Frank the Tank and him. And I love Javon Carter, you know, Tyler Johnson's always a good role playing, you know, can get you, can be a little

spark plug. I don't know about Cam Johnson, but he's going to figure it out, hopefully. They don't have anybody. I think Cam Johnson, when I looked it up, was the only player on their team. with a negative net rating through seven games, which is crazy. We're talking about the suns here. I mean, it's going to be interesting to see the way this team develops, not just the season, but still in the future, because someone like Mikhail Bridges, who you mentioned with his long-ass arms,

like I'm not, I think that seven-foot-one wingspan, that's a lie. It's going to be more like seven-seven. He has, his, his arms are so freaking long. I've never seen anything like it. Seriously, like when you go and see him in person,

Anybody that goes to watch the Sun's game, look at it. I mean, his arms like have to stay bent the whole time. Otherwise, they would be like halfway down his leg. It's like a cartoon. I mean, he can tie his shoes without bending over. It's insane. But with Bridges, he shot only 33% from three last season. This season, he's only one of seven.

That needs to get better. Cameron Johnson drafted him for his shooting. Five of 15 so far this season. That's a super small sample size. so who cares. But the point being is that you have him to be a knockdown guy. These are some players at the wing position that need to be good shooters. And Kelly Ubrey,

so far this season, he's shooting better than he has in the past. We'll see how sustainable that actually is. But it's critical for Phoenix that these wing players, Sarich, Bridges, Johnson, Ubre, that they continue to produce defensively. But there's three-point shots need to be maintained or else at some point.

in matchups where teams are game planning for you, whether that's the playoffs or whether it's a big game with playoff implications, that's when those guys get helped off of. And suddenly, Devin Booker may not have the driving lanes that he once had. So these guys need to be able to produce the shooters. We were both in arenas last night. I saw the Rockets in person for the first time this year playing against the Grizzlies. Now, it was not a great representative of the Rockets. It was more like the old Rockets because Westbrook sat out resting last night. so it was James Hardin and four other guys.

But he had 44 in the game, and he is just unstoppable. I watched him warm up before the game, and he practices all of that stuff that you think, you know, is improvisational during the game, like all the stepbacks and all that, you know, almost the things that look like travels. He's practicing every bit of that before he even gets into the games. but the scariest was, and this was one of those, and I saw a lot of NBA Twitter freaking out about it, was John Morant tried to explode on someone.

He's done this three times this year, where he has just tried to end someone with the most ferocious dunk, and the way he landed and the way his leg twisted last night was extremely scary. And these mega fast twitch guys, you know, landing is the hard part. They get up so high and they get up so fast. It's truly incredible that Westbrook has been as durable as he has throughout the years because whether it was a Derek Rose or whether it was, you know, Zach Levine got hurt. We're dealing with the Zion thing.

Now, you know, sometimes, especially when you are going so fast and you are getting up so high so quickly, very, very difficult to land. And you want to talk about an audible gasp. Oh, my God. So he's got to watch himself or else, you know, I'm sitting here with my fingers crossed on a rant because that was, you just don't see guys. Number one, trying to dunk on people like that.

Number two, landing like that. And it does freak you out a little bit. It was scary, man. I mean, if you pause the image when he falls, it looks like something horrible just happened. I'm thankful that nothing did happen there. With Houston this season, man, for them, it's nice to see them have a game where they hold somebody to just 100 points. I mean, that was the Grizzlies without Jaron Jackson.

I know, I know. They got real defensive problems, though. I'm just saying exactly. They've had some serious, serious issues. Don't let that score. Don't let that score confuse you. they still have real defensive problems. Grizzly just can't score in the half court

and it became a half-quarter game in the third quarter. That team is, they're going to give up a boatload of points this year. That's not going to be uncommon. Watching them, I know the numbers low, their defense sucks. How did you feel about James Hardin's nut punch on Jay Crotter?

I have never seen anything like that in my life. I've never seen another player hit another player in the nuts. Oh. And no. How about Marcus Smart? No, no, no. Hold on now, Kevin. This is what people, an NBA official, like the referee thing that they have, that Twitter feed, they tweeted it out. You know what they didn't mention?

You know, they said it went, like, they want to, like, pat themselves on the back. And then it got reviewed and it was issued a flagrant run to James Hardin, right? Really? Like, yes, that's what they went and reviewed it. You know what they don't mention in the official review? Number one, Jay Crowder was thrown out of the game. Number two, and actually, that's number two. Number one, they called a foul on Jay Crowder.

And then went and reviewed it and said, actually, it is not a personal foul on Crowder. It is a flagrant foul on Hardin. But in real time, James Hardin punched a guy in the nuts, and the foul was called on the guy they got punched in the nuts. I'm like, are you kidding me? I have never seen that in my life, ever.

I also just want to say the shot Hardin took after that happened. Oh, against Dylan Brooks, the step back, sidestep three-pointer. I don't even know what to call it, but oh my God. That shot,

That shot was outrageous. And here's the thing. It's like he literally steps back to the side at the same time to create space and still pretty well defended by by by the opponent. But like, oh my goodness, dude. That what a dagger. You know, he annoys me. But I freely admit he is unstoppable. There's nothing you can do when you can hit that kind of crap.

There's nothing you can do. I mean, I, I am in all. absolute awe of his talents. I don't like the flailing around. I don't like that he can punch somebody in the nuts and get the foul called on the guy that's got his nuts punched. Was that really a purposeful punch, though? I think it was probably a little nut tap.

You know, one thing Hardin's been doing this season is he's been like dead arming his offhand. So he doesn't get called for offensive files. Like he kind of just lays his arm out straight down instead of bringing it up. And I wonder if maybe that's what he was trying to do. It's just keep his arm down. But then he just happened to hit Crowder in a very sensitive area. I always think the funniest is if anybody was watching the game last night,

Kyle Anderson, when he guards him, he puts his hands up as if you were like standing over a bonfire to get your hands warm. You know what I mean? Like he's just got his hands. Like his palms are up in the air. like the entire time as if to say I am not touching this human being and it is I've never seen anybody else in the league guard him that way but it is absolutely hysterical you were at the pelicans Brooklyn for a bit last night and got to see at least a portion of brandon ingram's

huge breakout season is continuing and he had 40 points and it was not free throws either only had five free throws 17 of 24 from the field five rebounds, five assists to go along with his 40 points. What was the Brandon Ingram experience like? He's come a long, long way, Chris. It's remarkable to see. I remember, I mean, Laker Film Room on Twitter put a good tweet about this this morning in regards to Ingram. He's covered Ingram for years when he was with the Lakers and obviously now with the Pelicans. It is all coming together for Ingram. You know, LFR mentioned how in the past with Ingram it was like, is he a one-foot leaper or two-foot leaper, you know, at the rim?

And now with Ingram, he has become one of the better at-room finishers in basketball using his long arms, finishing with either his left or right hand off of one foot off or off of two feet. He has become a guy. His handle is so tight from the perimeter, his ability to create at the end of the clock using step, uh, side step pull-ups or step backs from mid-range. occasionally from three. He has become a dynamic and nearly complete offensive player. The three point shot still needs to be proven over a longer period of time. But Ingram is finally growing into the player that I thought he could be pre-draft when I had him ranked first in 2016. And a lot of people have seen flashes of with the Lakers. And his defense has regressed on this very horrific Pelicans defensive team.

But it's really nice to see Ingram coming together on their offensive end of the floor. or granted the Pelicans still haven't been good. I mean, they lost. Well, here's the thing. Two things on him. Number one, he only turned 22 in September. Yeah. He's so young.

Yeah, sometimes we do lose sight of that. The other thing is how quickly it is forgotten that there was at least a moment in time where people worried about his career because of the very serious medical condition that he had. he had. But here's hoping that all of that, that now he is totally in the clear. And it is, it's unbelievable to think in three years time, he will be a 25-year-old player. And we have seen the progression now to what he looks like in a game like last night. What is he going to look like three years from now?

He could be one of the great players in the league. Yeah. No doubt about it. I think it doesn't matter. These guys don't have to be compared. They just happen to be in the same draft, but there's still a chance Brennan Ingraham ends up the best player

from the 2016 NBA draft. You're talking about Ben Simmons, Brennan Ingram, and of course, Pascal Seacum. Those are the three guys that really have a chance to be the best from that class. And, you know,

Simmons, you know, for the first couple seasons, looked like clearly that guy. Then Seacom emerges and he's made another leap this season, which we've talked about before, which we and I both agree is real. But Ingram,

Ingram, I still think, has the highest upside of these guys because of his blend of talents. He can become that dynamic score around the floor. He still has really good playmaking instincts and vision off the dribble. I think if you empower Ingram to be more of a playmaker, he can do that for you. And we've seen in the past, not the season with New Orleans. He's been poor defensively, as has an entire team. but the last two seasons seasons with the Lakers, he's been really, really good

in the offensive end of the floor. So with Ingram, you know you can have a potential star to a player. And right now we're seeing the flashes on the offense. And hopefully at some point, he's able to do it with the defensive end as well. But at just 22 years old, still a shot that Ingram ends up the best in the league

from the 2016 draft. All right. We've got to talk about some news and notes that we will get to on the other side. But first, these words. Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Roman. With two-thirds of guys experiencing noticeable hair loss by age 35, most guys assume losing their hair is inevitable as they age. Some don't care, some shave their heads, some embrace hats.

What they don't know is there are FDA-approved medications designed to stop hair loss and even regrow hair. That's why we're excited to partner with our sponsor, Roman. Roman makes it easy and safe to get FDA-approved hair loss treatment all from your phone or computer. And when you go to get roman.com slash ringer NBA, your online visit is free. Consult with a U.S. licensed physician through their secure online platform, no awkward conversations with receptionists, reading bad magazines in the waiting room. Once your doctor ensures that your treatment is safe and effective for you, Roman's dedicated pharmacy can ship your medication to you with free two-day shipping in

discreet packaging. If you're noticing unwanted hair loss, starting treatment early is key, and Roman can help. And today, Roman is giving the Ringer NBA show listeners a free online visit at getromen.com slash ringer NBA. That's get Roman.com slash ringer NBA for a free visit to get started. Go to get Roman.com slash ringer NBA. Today's episode is also brought to you by Luminary, a podcast subscription service with some of the best content around. I'm excited about Luminary because it's the only place I can listen to the Ringers' amazing new podcast. podcast Sonic Boom, How Seattle Lost Its Team, hosted by our very own Jordan Ritter-Con.

If you're a fan of sports, great investigative journalism, or both, this is definitely a podcast you can't miss. Check out Sonic Boom. For more than four decades, the Seattle Supersonics were among the NBA's most iconic franchises, but in 2008, they packed their backs for Oklahoma City. Sonic Boom tells a story of basketball and politics, wealth, and power. Hear from NBA legends, politicians, diehard fans, and business executives, Sonic Boom unearths never before heard truths about the NBA's greatest heist. Along with Sonic Boom, Luminary offers more than 40 podcasts you can't find anywhere else, including two more from the ringer, breakstuff, the story of Woodstock 1999, and the rewatchable spin-off, the rewatchables, 1999. The Luminary app is free to download and gives you access to way more than just their own content. and use it to listen to thousands of other shows, including this one.

Get your first two months of access to Luminary's premium content for free when you sign up at Luminary. That's Luminary.com slash Ringer NBA. After that, it's only $7.99 a month. That's Luminary.com slash Ringer NBA for two months of free access. Luminary.com slash Ringer NBA. Cancel any time, terms apply. All right, Kevin, we've got a couple other things to talk about before we get out. of here.

Anthony Davis is probably getting a PR lesson today after the Lakers are playing against the Chicago Bulls. And did you see the video from this event that he was at? The headlines are calling Chicago a mecca, a basketball. And then when they asked him about playing in Chicago, he said, I mean, I'm a free agent next year, but we will see. And if you didn't want to get asked questions, about, you know, what's to come after this season.

Like, it's just better off to not say anything in that situation. But now it's kind of out there like, oh, my God, could Anthony Davis leave after one season after they just gave up all their awesome young talent? What did you make when you saw the headline slash video of Anthony Davis at this so-called, I guess nothing is private anymore, but event he did in Chicago? I look forward to Anthony Davis signing with the Bulls when he's like in his mid-30s. But I mean, I just, I would be, it would be shocking, utterly shocking if he were to leave the best team in the Western Conference. As the leader of the number one defense and basketball, the Lakers so far this season, it would be really, really shock if 80 were to leave there.

Something would have to go serious long over the next couple months. but you know what man like speaking like he can speak openly about that like maybe someday he will want to go back to chicago maybe it would be after signing a four year extension or something like that with the lakers maybe it's at age 30 then he goes back there i know but we've just seen this he said i'm a free agent next year he didn't say we'll see down the road like this is just terrible and you remember last year carrie irving uh said the thing at the season ticket holder event And then by the time he was being asked, he's like, hey, you know, I'm a free agent next year. Like, the Lakers just don't need this hanging out there because you know they're in a massive media market.

And it's like, could he leave? Could he leave? I mean, that is the one good thing. And I know the guy doesn't talk anyway. But to his credit, Kauai Leonard, most people thought he was just, you know, a mercenary. But, like, he didn't talk about free agency at all, just kept his head down. And they ended up winning the damn title. Not great to be bringing up.

hey, I'm a free agent next year. Here's the thing. I think this is a continuation of what happened before the deadline when, when member they had a list, a clutch had a list of teams 80 would play for. Yep. And then AD came on and said, no,

I would play for all 30 teams, right? I think, I think this is a similar type of thing here. That's his hometown, where he's, I know, I know it is.

I understand. It's a total tease for both fans. And it is different with Chicago than it would be with, of the cities, but with AD, like what he's saying, you know, he's technically right that anything's a possibility with him being a free agent. Yeah, but at, look, he just forced his way out of a place last year. And it wasn't great. And now he's like, I mean, things are going good for the Lakers. He's like, hey, you know what? I'm a free agent next year. You never know. Like, what? You never do know. Maybe he wins a championship and he's like, now, you're like, now, you know,

you know what, I want to go to Chicago. Who knows? You never know. But the fact is, is that right now the Lakers have the best team in the Western Conference. Yeah, a lot of that has to do with Anthony Davis just being absolutely spectacular on the defensive end of the floor. With the talent that they have there, I mean, Dwight Howard, he has been so, so good for them. Avery Bradley looks rejuvenated as a defender at the point of an attack. Never mind with Danny Green on the wing. LeBron James putting in consistent effort on the defensive end of the floor. This defense, has been remarkably great, and I don't see that slowing down at any point this season. A couple other notes. What do you make of David Fisdale responding to the amount of minutes

that R.J. Barrett plays by bringing up Latrell Spreewell 20 years ago and how many minutes a game he played, played 41 minutes in what was a beat down to the Sacramento Kings. He is averaging 37 minutes per game, the leaders in the NBA are Kyle Lowry, Fred Van Vleet, Damien Lillard, R.J. Barrett. So he is in the top five in minutes played per game so far this year. Fizz said everybody should just drop it. Do you think R.J. Barrett's minutes count is a real thing that there should be a level of concern over?

I would say Fisdale's response was kind of silly. and it's something to monitor. And I don't think R.J. Barrett should have been playing as much as he did in that game. It seemed like wasteful minutes. But, you know, there are players across the league who do get 36 plus 37 plus minutes per game. Like last year there's nobody. Last year, Bradley Beale and Paul George had 36.9 minutes. Hardin was at 36.8.

Westbrook was at 36. They were the only four players to average over 36 minutes per game in the NBA. This year, early season, there's nine guys. and with Barrett hopefully over the course of the year, that number progressively falls down a little bit. And that's something to monitor. I'm not reading too much into it right now, but if that continues with more games

where Barrett is getting minutes when he shouldn't be playing, I think then it becomes a problem. When I wonder in a city with the Knicks where often people look for a scapegoat, I wonder if at some point people look at Fisdale and are like, what's this guy playing our star rookie player for when he doesn't he be playing many minutes. At some point, is there pressure on Fisdale to change? Does that happen at some point? I don't know. I mean, put it this way. There is a, most players hit a rookie wall anyway. If you're playing almost 40 minutes a night, that rookie wall is going to come sooner.

Sure. And today, and that's the thing. It's like you want to, you're not building just for this year with R.J. Barry, you're building for the future. And I'm not sure those extra five minutes. The pros of that would outweigh any potential cons. I think with R.J. managing his minutes is probably the smart thing to do. One interesting thing, there was a story in the New York post today that there was fire Fisdale chance from the crowd when they got blown out by the Kings Sunday afternoon. I didn't hear them.

I was at the game. I did not hear those. But just interesting that there probably is a portion of Nix fans who are angry with Fisdale's usage of Barrett and perhaps just his overall coaching. Yeah, well, you know what the chance were after in the first week of the season? it was to play Frank. That's what it was.

Why wouldn't you play Frank Bill Aquina? Okay, fine. He played Frank. That's what he did. He played him and he got his ass kicked. And so now it's like, well, fire Fisdale. Like, wait, hold on. You're the one that told me to play Frank Nilakina.

The guy is shooting 30% from the field and 0% from 3. I'm playing him. What do you want? He's not shooting 0% from 3, Chris. He's shooting 23.1. percent. Whatever. Same thing.

Same thing. I mean, this is what I know. It's like, hold on now. You can't be chanting at me. Play Frank, play Frank, play Frank,

play Frank, free Frank. And then I play him. And then we get our ass kicked. And you're like, Fire Fisdale. Like, which is it?

What do you want? And also, I mean, like, this is a, this is a season with the Knicks where like you want them to be losing games.

You want this team to suck. to suck. It would be it would be bad news for the Knicks if they were to somehow slip into the postseason. You want this team to be bad to get another top pick. Routing for loss is the right thing to do for a Knicks fan right now. Oh God. Come on. You know it's true, Chris. You know it's true. They've been rooting for losses for 20 years. But you can't change the past. They looted for losses last year and then didn't get the prize. They didn't get Zion. If there's anything we have learned. You don't root for losses because you'll never get a really good free agent to want to play

there. It is the lesson of the net. It is the lesson of the clippers. It is better to be competitive. You're ignoring situations in which teams did didn't sign players. It's like you're talking about Philadelphia. They have signed multiple guys. Not until they got good.

You look way back at this 96 97 spurs who tanked their asses off with David Robinson my God. Let's bring up examples from 35 years ago. 35 years. That's not 35 years. If you got to go back 35 years to find a team. 23 years. But the point is that those examples are no less significant.

Tanking is just one strategy and trying to win is just one strategy to. Neither necessarily guarantee future success. It's about looking at the situation and what positions you, to best be successful. With the next two years, it's important for them to be competitive, to play hard and try to win. And they are.

They are trying, but they suck. My only point was that it is beneficial for them to lose. It is not beneficial for them a team that needs to change their perception around the league to try to lose. But they're going to lose even when they try to win. And that's what I'm saying is the best case scenario for this team. This season, then next year you hope they may.

some incremental progress in terms of winning games. They should be better than they are. They need some non-shitty guards is what they need. In fact, just won and they'd be okay. I mean, RJ's been running a lot of points. I know. I know. Julius Randall has, too.

He's in his first 10 games in his career. You know, Julius Randall has handled the ball quite a lot too for them. You're right. They did that they don't have a traditional point guard, but with Randall and Barrett, two non-traditional playmakers that has been cool. to see them incorporate larger guys in that role. Yeah. You know, earlier, one last thing.

We were talking about Brandon Ingram so far this year and this huge breakout season that he has had, at least in the early season. He is averaging over 25 points per game. And I went and pulled this up. Do you know that so far, and again, you know, we're talking seven, eight games, there are 15 players in the league

that are averaging over 25 points per game. James Harden, Kyrie Irving, Damien Lillard, Kawhide Leonard, Anthony Davis, Janice, Trey Young, Luca, Brad Beal, Kemba, Booker, Seacum, Ingram, Donovan Mitchell, LeBron. And then Kyle Lowry's averaged in 24. I mean, that is unbelievable. Fifteen guys in the league that are averaging over 25 points per game. And Brandon Ingram's in that mix, at least for right now. How about that? I just named a who's who. Kyrie Irving in yesterday's game

was pretty spectacular as well I mean we didn't talk about the team that actually he's averaging over 30 a game I think I think he's second in the league right now he's been awesome the other one is the Luca show has been real

I mean good grief what do you have like 15 and 14 as the other numbers the other night against Cleveland it's like 27 15 and 14 or something he uh he's I think he's average

a triple double or is very close to it in this early season. And he'll certainly be a Western Conference All-Star. That's for sure. Chris, Luca, first of all, he's my favorite player to watch right now in basketball. I love watching young players blossom into stars. And Luca at 20 years old, putting up the numbers that he is, 27 points, 10 rebounds, nine and a half assist, nearly a triple double, as you said. with pretty good efficiency and diversity in the way in which he's scoring and creating shots for

others, that game that he had against the Lakers, a loss for the Mavericks. The second half of that performance, man, the passes that he was making off the dribble with such precision to lob threats to spot up three-point shooters, it was one of the best passing performances that I can remember seeing in a long, long time. And with Luca Donchurch, I would go as far to say, even at 20 years old, he's already one of the 10 best players in the NBA. It certainly appears that way through the first seven or eight games of the season. I will give you that. Kevin, it's always fun.

There'll be a bunch more happen by the time we get to Friday. Hopefully there's no other young stars suspended by the time we get to Friday. but either way we'll talk about all of it and what has taken place. I'll talk to you on Friday. I'm looking forward to it, Chris. Have a good one. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing.

Go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you on Friday.