The Ringer NBA Show - Ka-Why Not Stay in Toronto? Plus: Draft Picks Who Will Not Fail | The Mismatch

Episode Date: June 18, 2019

Kawhi Leonard led the Toronto Raptors to the first championship in franchise history, but will he re-sign with them (1:46)? The Anthony Davis trade shifts the landscape of the offseason, including raising questions about the fate of the no. 4 pick in the upcoming draft (10:38). Plus: Verno’s annual list of draft picks who will not fail (34:41). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Connor, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Brien, aka Mr. Bright Future, Son. Kevin! It's a bright future grizzly soon, Chris. Oh, I'm going to fight you over having RJ Barrett over J. Marant later. Hey, but did you see the rumor that possibly the Pelicans would consider trading up for RJ, which could mean Jha could end up going three?

What would that mean for Memphis, Chris? That's ridiculous. I just wanted to freak you out because I know you're all in on Java Rants. I don't think it would happen. I will make a 100% guaranteed. that the second pick for the Memphis Grisleys will be Jomarant on Thursday night. I'm hoping for a trade now

just so we can play that back next week. Just loop it over for 50 minutes straight. There will be no trades. I don't think there will be either. If you could trust me on anything, trust me on this. Since we have last spoken, the Raptors became NBA champions.

Anthony Davis got traded to the Los Angeles Lakers in a mega deal. And we only have a few days until the NBA draft, and we'll give all our thoughts on that a little bit later. But first, yesterday, you know, everything's been said about what happened in the actual series. The Raptors are NBA champions. Their parade was absolutely epic yesterday.

I'm sure you saw the clips from it, Markis all chugging an entire bottle of wine, which I do not think, I don't think that that can be overstated how totally absurd that is and how insanely drunk he must have been after doing it. You don't just turn back an entire bottle of wine. He did. He's grabbing on trees, getting him to sing Ole Aole. You had Kauai Leonard on the stage doing the laugh and his entire team going absolutely bananas. And obviously they had a massive, massive, ridiculous turnout for that parade.

That parade actually looked like one that I typically look at the championship parades and they give me anxiety. like, man, I could not be in a crowd that big. But I think I could have been in that one. That one, Toronto turned up yesterday, and they deserved to after getting the title. What did you see? It was awesome to see that, man. You know, you think about Canada. You think hockey first.

But I remember watching a portion of the broadcast, and one of the TSN broadcasters said how just driving down the street, he sees more basketball hoops and family driveways, riding around neighborhoods and Canada more and more over the years and it's only going to increase i i said this to gons after the game on thursday and it's like for me one of the big takeaway series obviously congratulations to the raptors for winning the title and congrats to all the players and that entire organization and to the fans as well but it's like imagine being a young kid watching this team that improbable run after the years and years of just heartbreaking the playoffs losing to lebron james and then you get kawai this guy who you're not even sure what he's going to have after playing only nine games last year,

knowing that he didn't even want to be in Toronto. He wanted to be in Los Angeles. And it somehow leads to this miraculous run all the way to the finals and you defeat the Golden State Warriors, the team that are supposed to three-peat. I think if you're a young kid, nine, ten, 11 years old watching this team, basketball is probably going to be a favorite sport. And so it's not only going to lead to more kids wanting to play basketball that are going to become fans of basketball, it's going to lead to more kids who are players and become prospects either internationally or someday in the NBA. It's going to really, really help grow the game of basketball in Canada, just continue accelerating the ascent that's happened for basketball in

Canada this entire century. Yeah, and you have seen over the course of the last, you know, few years now, I guess several years now, whether it was Tristan Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, Corey Joseph, Shee Gildes-Alexander, There's a kid this year from Canada that's going to be drafted. I mean, we have had draftable prospects certainly already come, and that's just going to continue to get, I mean, look, we're going to look up at 10 years of Canada is going to have a hell of an Olympic team, right,

if all these guys end up playing for Canada, because there has been a lot of talent over the course of the last decade. And as you said, I think that's only going to get greater and greater, given their success. You mentioned Kauai and not wanting to be there in the first place, and there he is, winning a title and winning a final. MVP with them. It seems like that did at least change the conversation where it was a foregone conclusion

that he was going to be elsewhere for the upcoming season. That may not be so now. Obviously, we went through this a year ago with Paul George. We all thought he was going elsewhere and then he decided to stay in Oklahoma City. And he didn't have nearly the success. In fact, it was a quite disappointing season in his first year in Oklahoma City, but he stayed there. I do wonder, as I watched him on the stage yesterday, if it really is just going to be a one and done with Kauai Leonard. Because you look at that team and, you know, there's a couple of replacements, but the key parts, they can run that back.

If they want to, they can run it back and take another crack at it next year. obviously he is maybe the most difficult of the stars to get in his head and figure out what he's going to do. But it would not surprise me if he was wearing a Raptors uniform next year. Would it surprise you? No, not at all. I mean, everybody on that team, for the most part, their contract ends after the 1920 season. And for Kauai, if he signs a one-on-one, and if Gasol sticks around, opposite to his player option, and Danny Green resigns, they could have effectively the same exact Ross. heading into the next season and what is a wide open NBA championship chase.

So the Raptors could try to go back to back with Kauai. And it's not like the clippers aren't going to go anywhere. There could be other options for Kauai long term if he wants to go home to L.A. Or he could just maybe Canada is a place he wants to be. Maybe the love from the fans and the organization, the way they handled him with load management over the course of the season. Maybe he realizes Toronto is the place for him. It wouldn't surprise me if he left though, either, though, Chris. With that said, it's like he accomplished.

everything there is to accomplish with Toronto and his lone season there. And I think he's always going to be loved in Toronto, even if he does walk. So for Kauai, this is going to come down probably to what his family wants more than anything else. But it really is hard to find reasons to leave

Toronto. Like at least staying one more year makes sense to me. And then assess your options when Lowry, Ibaka, Gasol, Van Vleet, all those guys are hitting free agency. Then at that point, I think It makes a bit more sense to actually test the market.

One more year in Toronto would make a lot of sense. Well, and he got a boatload of money from New Balance, and he could easily do the one-and-one, right? The one year and then the player option and then assess the situation. That's why I said, I don't know, man, there seems to be, if I'm making the columns on the sheet, you can't deny where somebody wants to live and what his family wants to do. On the other hand, if you're writing down columns on the sheet and what matters to you

and winning has certainly seemed essential to Kauai Leonard running it back for one more year. I don't know. I think I'd be persuaded by that. But you never know. You never know. I mean, he won his title there anyway, right? No matter what he does, he went there and he won a title in Toronto. But I guess we'll see.

I just think that got way more interesting because they won. If they wouldn't have won, I think I would have thought, you know, he's leaving. But now that they won the title, he may not go. I don't know. He won, but the thing is, is like, regardless of what he chooses, Toronto is set up for success. They have Van Vleet under contract. They have Siakum as a restricted free agent. Oji and Innobe, still with three years left on his deal.

They have cap flexibility starting either in the summer of 2020 or in 2020, or in 2021, depending on the moves that they make. So it's from Rassai Uji with this roster moving forward and this entire organization moving forward. If Kauai leaves, they still have youth. they still have flexibility and they're not going to lose that even if they keep kawai they're still going to retain all that so it's like the raptors are set up for long-term success in terms of team building it's just a matter if they're going to be in the championship conversations that's what has to do with kawai but this team is still in a good spot with all the youth that they have

all right let's get to the ad trade i know you wrote about this i fall on the side i'll tell you up front i fall on the side of we will see the way this all plays out we talked about this last year and I said I would give up everything to get Anthony Davis. And if I've got LeBron James and Anthony Davis, the goal of this thing is to be able to win the title. And there is no doubt in my mind that having those two players on the same team, if I can be responsible and filling out the rest, which I know is a big caveat given the Lakers and how they built around LeBron in year one.

But if I can, then I've got a real chance at the title. and there was a risk that I come up short again in free agency if people decide to stay where they are or that it's not some kind of a great fit. But I think we could put me, you, and Isaac with LeBron and AD and we could win 50-something games. So he put real NBA players with them. I think I'd do it. They gave up a massive haul. There are some of those things I would have said no to, but maybe they couldn't get it done.

it feels like they bid much, much higher than what anybody else could have given. That being said, I certainly would have done it if I was the Pelicans, and I would have done that deal if I was the Lakers. What about you? I understand some of the criticisms that people have about the deal that the Lakers could have held out longer and they could have maybe given up one last draft pick. Maybe they could have kept Josh Hart. But come on now.

Like this team is one of the few teams that you can even come close to saying, this about the lakers have two top 10 players in the NBA they have two top 10 players and one of those guys top five top five top 10 whatever you want to call it well one of those guys is 26 years old so with anthony davis not only do you have a guy that makes you a championship contender now but he also makes you an appealing destination moving forward for when lebron is either old or gone at that point anthony davis he'll be around 29 30 31 years old still in the outer edges of his prime where you can have him as the lure

to other potential stars down the line. So you're not just investing in the next three years. You're investing in the next 10 plus you hope. That's what you're doing for the Lakers here. So it's like, yeah, you gave up a lot. You compromised all your draft pick flexibility. And that could ultimately screw you in certain trades down the line.

However, you at least gave it a shot, a real chance here to winner championship or more, maybe more than one champion. while you have LeBron James still near his peak power. So for the Lakers, it's like, yeah, maybe it could have held out and kept Josh Hart. Maybe you could have held out and not given that 2024 pick to defer. Maybe you could have done that. But you know what?

At least you got Anthony Davis here, a top 10 player with LeBron James. And guess what, man? Like to me, they're, if not the favorite, pretty damn close to it, despite the fact that we haven't even started. This team hasn't even started building a. around them yet with their cap flexibility. And we'll see the cap number is interesting, though, Chris, because that's one variable that sort of entered the equation,

whether it's going to be max or whether it's going to be around $23, $24 million. Right. And you could add one more extremely good player. Obviously, you've got Kuzma in the fold. And then I looked up, you know, you got to do this smart, but this is not a bad year to be mining through the unrestricted free agents and just trying to find all ironiesmen. need if I've got those two is role players. I don't need somebody taking a bunch of shots.

I need people that can stretch the defense and move the ball. And so you can play in the specialist game and try to find some of those where you've got the Wayne Ellingtons and the Troy Daniels of the world that are available and the Garrett Temples. And then other names that just, you know, you find cheap role players, Thaddeus Young's out there, temples out there, Shumpert, as I mentioned, Mike Scott, Joaqu Noah, Derek Rose. T.J. McConnell, Wayne Ellington, Robin Lopez, Todd Gibson, Ed Davis. I mean, there's a lot of guys out there, a lot, and some that are even longer. You're missing too, Chris. You're missing two big ones. Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wade. Yeah, right. That's possible too. Certainly possible. But I mean,

you give yourself the opportunity to get guys that are willing to go there very cheap. And, you know, listen, I know nobody's going bananas over the names that I just mentioned, but that's a bunch of good role players, right? Guys that could just come in and play a role and give you NBA minutes. And that's what I need. I need role players surrounding these two guys. The hardest thing to do is to acquire the two amazing stars. Now, filling in the rest, you just got to be smart about it.

And you can't. There's enough guys out there. There's enough guys out there that you can. be able to feel the legitimacy. One other one that comes to mind. Vince Carter, someone you had in Memphis recently. Vince Carter makes some sense if he wants to chase a title. Joaquin Noah, who had some solid opportunities last year with Memphis.

He was okay. Wesley Matthews, Jamal Crawford, Jeff Green. West Matthews is a perfect one. Yeah. There's a handful of guys out there that may want to come along for the ride, live in Los Angeles for a year and compete for a title. There's talent out there. like it's not inconceivable and by the way like one of the things when it comes to their cap space is yeah maybe they would be better off adding a max player like kemba walker or kawai leonard but i don't think they're going to get kawai and i'm not convinced kemba's going to leave charlotte so for the lakers it may make more sense to add like five or six good role players with 23 25 million dollars in cap rather than spending 32 on one guy and then just using only the league minute and

them for others. Boy, I would be so pissed if Kauai went there. Because that's unfair. I don't think you will. That's more unfair than when KD joined the Warriors. I mean, you'd get three of the top five players in the NBA on one team. Come on. I would be stunned.

And also, they don't have the cap space unless they wait for the deal, which is sort of weird that we don't have that exact clarification yet. But it does sound like that the Lakers will only have around 24 million in cap space, which is fine, but it's not enough for Kauai. It's not enough for Kemba, Kyrie, any of the max free agents. Okay, so obviously we're both on the same page regarding the Lakers and what they pulled off. How about the flip side? The Pelicans and what David Griffin and Trajan Langdon pulled off in New Orleans.

They got a monster hall, unprecedented hall. And it would not surprise me. I like, look, I still got stock in Lanzo. I've still got stock in Ingram. do you think they take somebody four on Thursday night or do you think they use that as an asset to improve

even more by getting already a legitimate NBA player possibly a fantastic one? I think they should try to leapfrog the Knicks and try to get RJ Barrett at 2. That's what I would try to do and I'm being serious about that. I would try to do that. I don't think they would but I would

try to do that. RJ to me is the second best player in this drafts and if you can get them you should try to get them. That's a different conversation. Yeah, that's exactly what I'd do. I'd have them jump so they can get R.J. Barrett so I could watch him not pass to Zion again. Get the hell out of here.

Get real. Pass the ball, kid. Oh, please. Let me just say this regarding Argy Barrett, not to go off on a side tangent here when we're talking about the Pelicans, but RJ Barrett's passing has been so severely underrated, I think. We're talking about a guy who's a teenager who's six foot eight that can make cross court passes the corner three shooters that can handle the ball on the pick and roll.

And yes, he does have moments where he just has massive tunnel vision and it can be frustrating. But he's also had times where this dude makes plays that others just can't make, especially when you're considering his size. So with RJ, I think that he showed progress over the course of the season as a passer at Duke. And to me, that steady assent for him is encouraging. And there's going to be frustrating moments like there are for any young player. but if you're projecting forward five years from now six years from now when he's near his prime or in his prime

six seven six eight ability to score create off the dribble ability to playmaking to do things that a lot of other guys just cannot do they're not physically capable of doing it and with rj like i feel like that has been overlooked because of some of the flaws that he did show at duke with that said like the odds are the pelicans will not have a chance to select rj the odds are they will be selecting with the fourth pick and jarek culver is the guy who stands out as the in my opinion he's the fourth best prospect in the draft that's where i have him right now but culver is a good fit next to zion a good fit next to lonso ball as a scoring kind of glue guy type of player i i don't love him even though i have him fourth but he's a smart overall player who can pass within the offense he fits he fits what that team seems to be with zion and lonso and ingram a bunch of guys that can play up tempo that can switch positions on defense switch screens new orleans like

they're not going to be a great team obviously with so much youth this season however i do think that they have a chance to be a pretty good defense for a young team lanzo and drew holiday if they keep through holiday could be one of the best defensive back courts in the NBA zion could be a pretty good defender as a rookie and ingram is already a good defender at the wing slash forward position so this team has an exciting defensive core, but Chris, are you at all worried on offense about, yes,

there will be dunks, yes, they're going to play fast, but this team doesn't really have a lot of shooting in their system right now. Yeah, and you want to add RJ Barrett who couldn't make college threes.

I don't want to get into the, listen, every, every time, no, no, no, no, no,

that's, I want to stop you on this. This is exactly what I was going to say. Anytime you pin two players against each other, then it ends up making us out. This is exactly what I would do. I would take them one,

two and three. I would take them Zion, Morant, and Barrett, like everybody across the NBA pretty much has on their board. I do think that RJ Barrett, if you told me RJ Barrett's going to end up being a star, I would not have a problem with that, right? This is not one of those where I want

to bag on one guy in order to build the other guy up. I just feel like the elite level vision and the crazy athleticism is too much ahead regarding Moran. and R.J. Barrett.

I am not sure that R.J. Barrett makes his teammates better. I am sure that Morant makes his teammates better. I am not sure that Barrett is athletically superior to what will become his peers and foes in the NBA. I am sure that this is a rare level of athleticism that Morant has, but I do like them both. And so I don't want to pin it like, but I will mark this down as the first time you have ever truly loved a guy that cannot shoot. No, that's not true. I love Justice Williams though.

Oh, I guess Ben Simmons. You liked Ben Simmons, but you tried to trade him already. I never loved Ben Simmons. I've always had issues with Ben Simmons. I really like Ben Simmons, and I want to love him. I really want to love him. I really do. He's like my Luke P.

If you watch the Bachelorette. You want to love him, but you just can't? I want to love him, but there's just a serious flaw in his game. that's just preventing me from love Ben Simmons. With RJ Barrett, I don't even love him. I don't love many guys in this draft to be real with you, Chris. With RJ, there's flaws. I just, I want to bet on guys who bust their ass, who work hard,

who are high character guys, who love the game of basketball. And you can say that about a handful, but RJ is super talented. And he had a great season at Duke. This guy averaged 23, 8, and 4. And that's despite the fact that him, Zion, and Cameras all had to learn how to share and coexist together. And over the course of the season, they had some rough moments. And they also had some really good moments, too.

Expectations were so high for that team that any less, like any flaw was under a microscope, any issue that any player had was just, I think, magnified to an extent that it's been overblown for these guys. RJ is going to be a good player in the NBA. Whether he'll be great, I don't know. But he's going to be a good player. He's somebody that I would feel comfortable betting on at 6-7, 6-10, wing span. ability to score and play, make, and defend multiple positions.

Like, give me that guy in my team. Well, and here's the deal. Four has always been the argument. It's been the argument since November. The fourth pick. Some guys like Garland, some guys like Culver, some guys like Hunter, some guys, like other players. Four could be a shocker. That's for sure.

I think of this, like I think of, you know, years ago during the Rose draft, it went Rose Beasley. Everybody knew that was going to take place. third was OJ Mayo everybody thought that that was totally logical and when four was Westbrook everybody was like whoa because nobody

thought that was happening nobody saw that one coming I could see this year being like that I could see that the three going exactly like we thought and then when it gets to four we're like wow there's a myriad of players that could go four

that it would not show if Kobe White went four it would not be the most stunning thing to me. I just think there's a bunch of players. It wouldn't shock me, but it would be a mistake. No, it might be a mistake, but I'm just saying, there is no consensus even when we get to four. There is only a consensus on three.

And I will tell you, I did, for the last two weeks, I've talked to over 10, at least double digits amounts of people. And I don't want to get too deep into the draft stuff right now, because we will in a minute. But I will tell you that in between NBA executives, guys that have been scouts or recurrent scouts, front office people, college coaches, media members that cover the team intensely, people that I've built a connection with over the years.

And I couldn't get a consensus on Culver and Hunter. There were some that like Culver, some that like Hunter. So, I mean, once you know that, right? And then I had all kinds of differing opinions all the way down the list. I'm talking from four all the way down. And so it was fascinating. And I don't know, I don't know who it will go for. I honestly don't.

I know you would take Culver. I like Culver too. I don't think Culver is going to bust. That's for sure. But I think they might move the pick. I mean, he might not bust, but I could, there's a handful of guys. Like, everybody talks about DeAndre Hunter is a safe pick, a safe pick. What does safe mean?

If you're drafting a guy sixth or seventh, do you want him to be an average role player, like a little bit better than Jay Carter? The answer is no. And there's a chance that's what he will be. And that's not a bust, but there will be guys that are quote unquote safe that fail to meet expectations and Culver could be one of those guys depending on the development of his jump shot. Yeah, that's for sure. All right, we'll get back to the draft thing in a second, but I do want to comment one more time on this New Orleans thing. We like the deal for them. You have been

alongside me with the still liking Ingram. I mean, he's 21. The book has not been written on Ingram. The book has not been written on Lonzo to say the least. If you are looking and you are now the Pelicans and attempting to build. Do you try to add some veteran guys and say, hey, we're not waiting on this. We think we can be a playoff team this upcoming year. Or do you go the young route and say, hey, we want this to grow together and in three years from now be a championship level team, which would you do? I mean, I don't mean to cop out here, but it depends on the options that are available to you.

I mean, it's like if there's a veteran player, who sort of meets your timeline, then great, you know, add back guy because here's the thing. What New Orleans has is they don't need their own draft picks to necessarily be high in the draft because of the amount of draft equity that they have moving forward with all the Lakers picks. They already have a ton of flexibility with their assets and on their own players and their team. You could always flip Lonzo. You have enough young talent that you can remain flexible moving forward. So you don't need to necessarily be picking high in the draft.

with that said, they shouldn't rush this. I think they should continue to play it slow unless there's an appealing option that's available. To me, the guy that I'm most curious about is Drew Holiday. I have heard that they plan on keeping him, but I know Kevin Arnivitz reported, I think on Zach Lowe's podcast yesterday that the Celtics have sniffed around with Drew Holiday. I believe other teams have as well with Drew Holiday.

The question will be, do you want to keep that one veteran around to kind of stabilize your young core? or do you move on from him and just go all youth, all young? I think He's a holiday makes some sense. He's a good guy, a good player, a really good defensive player. So for New Orleans, I would sort of just play it in the middle, Chris, and just see what options are available for you as this develops over the next year. Well, then what the hell do you want with RJ Barrett if you've got Drew Holiday and Lonzo?

I'm getting a guy that I perceive as the second best player in the draft. I'm adding talent. I don't view this core is finalized. This team doesn't have enough shooting. Like they need to add that over the course of time. Well, that ain't him. Right now they're not there. But you don't need a rush into adding shooters right now.

You're drafting, you're drafting and adding the young players that you think are the best for your team moving forward. It's building a roster for five years from now, not building a roster for 1920. Okay, that's what I was asking. Do you try to make the playoffs now? No.

If you make the playoffs, you make the playoffs, but I think it would be fine being like the seventh or eighth worst team in the league and maybe a luckout and land on top four picking the lottery again. I think it's better off for them missing the playoffs. But if there's an option available out there for a player, like a Bradley Beale, then great.

Maybe you go for that. But Bradley Beal would also cost you a ton in order to add him. And I'm not sure he's not going to make you a title contender and he still only has two years left on his contract where he could walk in two years. So adding a guy, you better be sure that he's going to be part of your long term long term core because over the next two years zion is not going to make you a title contender neither is brandon ingram or lonsal ball you're going to have a good young team that's

exciting for fans and it's going to inspire a lot of hope for pelicans fans and they're going to be near the top of the league pass rankings for any hardcore NBA fan that just needs to watch a new Orleans pelicans game they're going to be a fun team to watch but you shouldn't rush the rebuild it's about building a team for five six years from now. So it's not about going for the playoffs now. It's about whatever happens now is whatever happens, but you're still looking forward and building for the future. Have you dumped the bright future sons for the bright future pelicans? No, I said this in my, and the article about my dad a couple months ago where it's like my love has expanded to all 30 teams. And for me, I view it sort of like I grew up a hardcore Celtics fan. Now I have just sort of become an NBA

a polygamist, Chris. I date around. I love a lot of teams. I love the sons. I love the pelicans. I'm dating around, man. I get the bright future pelicans and the bright future sons. Yeah, well,

the bright future sons have been, they've been passed up by like seven teams with a brighter future now. Unfortunately. Some serious sloppy seconds of the suns. That's for sure. You know what? No, that's not true. That's a lie because I was one of the first people who really loved the bright

sons future. Well, no, I promise you this. You're going to have them all. yourself. You're going to be the only one watching late at night. And you could say, oh, this is amazing. Devin Booker had 48 points and another 60 point loss.

This is great. You know what? The Devin Booker slander really, really frustrates me, Chris. It really does. It really does because with Devin Booker, man, we're talking about a guy in his young 20s had an incredible season, despite the fact that each year he's had a different head coach, a changing system, only 22 years old averaging 27 points per game, has improved every single year as a playmaker as a pick and roll score and decision maker. It's like people

focus on his defense. Oh, he can't defend. He can't defend because he's on the one of the worst teams in the league. Who does defend on bad teams, on young teams? Yes, Devin Booker doesn't defend, but what he did do at lower levels was play hard on defense. And I think with this team, I can't believe we're talking about Devin Booker right now. But with Devo Booker, it's like 27 points per game at 22 years old with really, really good efficiency despite the fact he's the only guy in the team. He could do anything on the ball. He's going to turn to a really good player when they have a better supporting cast.

I am with you, which they never will. Losers stay losers. It's not his fault. It's not his fault. Losers stay losers. You build a losing culture. Leave David Booker alone. It's a never-ending cycle.

You just have, listen, you've got to start the, please trade him. No. Because you're going to be a Mitch Richmond fan for a decade otherwise. Here's the thing. Here's the thing, though. I didn't start it, but back in December, I wrote an article on The Ringer about, like, who are the next stars that are going to be available for trade? Who are the next guys?

Because looking at the league landscape, it seemed like Anthony Davis is going to be the last guy for a while. in all likelihood. I mean, things can change. There can always be surprises. But it seems like Anthony Davis is going to be the last one for a while. And so I made the point in there like, who were the next guys?

I had Carl Towns towards the end of his contract. I had Ben Simmons, if something goes wrong in that situation with Embed. I had Porzingus. A month later, he was traded. I had Bradley Beale with two years left on his deal. And there's already some noise there. We'll see.

And then with Devin Booker, he was the last guy that I had where Booker at the end of not this past season, but the year before that, he's like, I'm frustrated when missing the playoffs. I don't ever want to miss the playoffs again. So what happens like two, three years from now when he's 25 years old near the end of his deal? At that point, is he like, you know what? I want out if that team's still leaving. So Booker could be one of the next guys that people are trying to trade for. Well, you should keep throwing that out there until maybe he gets traded. because they lost a thousand games again to get the number six pick in the draft.

That was worth it. Let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we will talk about the NBA draft. I turned in my article, my NBA draft article, which will be up on the ringer in the next few days. But we will chop it up over that on the other side. Today's episode of the mismatch is brought to you by Capital One. With the Capital One Sabre Card, you can earn 4% cashback on. dining and entertainment. That means 4% on checking out that new French restaurant and 4% on bowling

with your friends. You also earn 2% cash back at grocery stores and 1% on all other purchases. Now when you go out, you cash in. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms apply. All right, Kevin. So once a year, I write. I write the article for the upcoming NBA draft, my players that will not fail. And the whole conceit of the article is to find guys that are not going to fail that when you look up and down these mock drafts, we can look back and we consistently find guys that were total bust. In fact, many that were total bust.

And I've always said, you know, when somebody says, oh, they took him too high or they took him too low, that that is, it's ridiculous to me because it's according to what? It's according to something that we have been brainwashed to believe accurately ranks who the best players in the draft are. So I put my money where my mouth is every year. I tried to reread it before I sent it to Danny Chow last night. And let me just tell you, if it is readable to the general public, Danny Chow will present himself as the greatest editor on planet Earth because I was embassable. I was embarrassed reading it back. I was like, maybe I should write more than once a year.

And I was like, does this make sense? Do I, what words do I need to change? So good luck to Danny Chow trying to decipher what I turned into him. If it becomes readable, I think I spent too much time constructing 140 character tweets. You know what I mean? And so it is, it's got me. There's an art to tweeting, Chris, and you're quite good at it. Yeah, right, I guess.

Anyways, the draft guide has been up for some time now. My addition will be added. So I did my guys that will not fail. And we can go ahead and kind of preview this. All right. So this year for this list, I made it more difficult. I decided I was going to throw out all of the guys at the top. Last year, you know, I had Bagley in there.

I had Luca in there. I had guys that were highly ranked that I thought would not fail. And partly I did that because I was not a D'Andre Aiton guy. And so I wanted to make sure that he wasn't included. This year, I went down a little further. So I wanted to find guys that were a little further down in the draft. I will tell you, I pulled it from your board the highest player that I wrote about. Because now this is shooting my shot, right?

These are guys that I think are going to outperform where they are drafted. The highest player I have on there and your board is 14, PJ Washington. Yeah, he's the first one that I have if I looked at your board. I'm going to be moving him up. When I do my final update, I think I'm going to end up having him 10 or 11. There's just no way he's, there's no way he's not good and has an NBA career. I refuse to believe it. The other ones are Nikiel, Alexander Walker.

I like Buzz Williams guys. he had guys that consistently have outperformed where they have gotten drafted. West Matthews, Jimmy Butler, Jay Crowder, and there have been others that have played for Buzz. You have to defend if you play for him. And this guy is just entirely too skilled to fail. dribbles, passes, and shoots with both hands. And I think people are getting caught up in the athleticism a little bit. You look through the NBA finals and it's not tons of guys that are,

the greatest athletes in the world. And you can go down the list. Kyle Lowry, Fred Van Fleet, Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, Clay Thompson, Steph Curry. I mean, hell, your finals, it was rough for dunks. If you went probably statistically back,

you know what I mean? You needed like a shack involved when we were trying to raise money for dunk on cancer. But I think it just goes to tell you, it wasn't all mega athletes. It's a good, basketball players.

And this kid is a good basketball player. So I've got him. That's a good one. I like that pick a lot. Alexander Walker, like, the main flaw with him is he's skinny. Like, he's just so skinny. Fine. But he's a high hockey player.

I like him a lot. I'll get him to eat. That's it. By the way, his cousin turned out pretty good. Shy Gildjus, that turned out to be a pretty good pick. The next one I have, and I will tell you that I told you that over double-digits amounts of people that I talk to. Some will be making decisions in the upcoming draft for teams.

Some scouted players the entire year. Some were college coaches that very well may coached against many of these players or college assistants, et cetera, et cetera. So I tried to mine through all manner of different people. And the reason that I write this article is for the next player that I'm going to mention. Kevin, I will tell you that this is maybe the first time. that I have ever had everyone being totally unanimous on a player. Every single person I talked to loved the kid, every one of them.

And he is ranked to go behind at least 20 guys in this upcoming draft. And it's Ty Jerome. That is the player. So it's like what the F is going on? Why then? If everybody loves him, this is exactly what I fight about regarding the NBA draft. Okay, I'm telling you, I talk to double digits amounts of people. I didn't get one person, not one, tell me that Ty Jerome isn't going to be good in the NBA.

Not one. They were all unanimous, 100%. And it's like, okay, then what the hell are 20-something guys going to go before him for? And it is the swing for the fences, Grand Slam. you don't know what his ceiling's going to be. But how many times do we have to learn this lesson, right? You're going to take some bum that's 19 that you say, well, what's he going to look like when he's 22?

The answer is he's not, you know what he's going to look like when he's 22? Not as good as Ty Jerome. That's what he's going to look like. There's like a 95% chance. He's not going to be good as that kid. But go ahead and project. And it's not like, listen, it's not like Tony Bennett find the kid on the school yard. He was a four-star recruit.

he was awesome in high school. Then he went to college, playing in, you know, if not the best conference, one of the best converts. And guess what? He was awesome there. And then he went to the NCAA tournament playing against the best competition. And he was awesome there. And he helps lead him to a national title.

And it's like, okay, this is a perfect example. What the hell? And so he's, I want to move him so much higher up my board. I have him at 31 and that just feels like dumb. It just feels dumb having him there. But I'm struggling. I'm struggling.

to move them up. You know, I'm struggling on to find guys that I would put them above. It's like, for example, one guy who I don't love in the draft, Kevin Porter Jr. from USC, a freshman 19 years old, you wouldn't draft Ty Jerome ahead of Kevin Porter, but it's like when you, when we look back at the draft five, 10 years from now, Ty Jerome and a redraft could easily be ahead of Kevin Porter. So it's tough balancing guys that you have confidence in that are going to be solid players compared to guys that could become solid, but also have. a chance to become, you know, really, really good or special at some point long term. It's interesting.

You mentioned Porter. The off the court stuff exed him out virtually everybody I talked to. Talent-wise, he's immature. He's absolutely one of the 10 most talented players in this draft. There's no question of my mind. His videos made me say, wow, more than anybody except the very top guys. He does some freaky stuff, man. He does some really freaky stuff.

And if it clicks, he's got the body. And he grows up. natural handle. Yeah. Yes. If he grows up, that would be a huge steal, but everybody's so scared of it. I get it, right?

Like, there's off the court stuff. He obviously played one year in college and he got suspended. He also can't shoot. He can't shoot either, though. I mean, like he, yes,

he's shot 40% from three, but he's also a poor free throw shooter is, his touch is just okay. You know, it's like he looks the part, but I'm not sure if he can finish the job. He is a spectacular athlete, though.

My God. Really. And he's got. a nice little step back. He's got some nice moves. That kid can really score when he gets kicking. Anyway, but I couldn't get anybody to clear him, you know, regarding everybody just told me like, dude, do not put him on a do not fail list. I was like, okay. I was like, but he's pretty impressive. All right, the other one, so I've got PJ, Nikiel, Jerome. I had multiple people tried to talk me out of it and I could not be talked out of it. And it's Admiral. I love Admiral.

I have always loved Admiral. Oh, boy. Heart and soul of an awesome team. Is it the name? Is it the muscles? What do you love about them? Is it the muscles? I love the muscles. No, that is my kind of guy. I love that his dad was it the Navy. I thought dad bods were in. Aren't dad bonds in now these days? Rick Barnes called, Rick Barnes called him one of the hardest working players he has ever coached in his life. I like that he can dribble, he can pass, it could shoot. I love

that he can switch on to other players. I also love that he was the heart and soul of what was an awesome team. I love that he went to the draft process last year and realized everything he needed to get better on and went and got better at it. I think he will do everything he can to maximize his potential. And I think that you want guys like him

on your team. And I think he could outperform wherever he gets drafted. I do not think guys like Admiral Schofield fail. I just refuse to believe it. And I could not get talked out of him. I also love, and I mentioned this in the article. You know, remember I told you about playing an instrument and that at least shows some level of discipline

if you have learned to play an instrument? Anybody can go look this up. Admiral Schofield does a rendition of Adele's someone like you. You can look it up on YouTube. You can look it up on YouTube. And I love that too. I love that he knows the words to someone like you by Adele. I love Admiral.

I do. Wait, that's like an insanely popular song. I feel like a lot of people probably know the words really else someone like you. Yeah. Maybe so. I don't think I could sing it word for word. You listen to it in the background?

Not much of a singer. But he can play the chords. I mean, okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing, though, Chris. Like, this is not me criticizing his guitar skills because I am a average player myself, but he's playing extremely simple chords. here. And he's only down strumming once for each chord.

It's like he's playing anything super impressive here. You could, I could teach you this in about a month, Chris. Don't you dare. I can teach you this. And by the way, you could play guitar yourself. I can play it. I don't need you to teach me guitar. I know I don't. But I'm saying, you can play. How dare you? I'll teach you out of play. I'll teach you out of play. Maybe you the hell. Who do you think you are Pete Townsend? All right. You know what? Sometimes I do. thing I would Pete Townsend in my bed with windmills and all that good times. You've got Admiral Schofield 42. That's stupid. Put him up. Put him up. Yeah, because because he can play

basic open chords on that's not true. Hey, you also have, by the way, I also want to urinate on this main selling point muscles. Get the F out of here. This guy. It's a joke. It's almost funny. It's not funny. It's not funny. It's not funny. It's funny. It's a serious draft guy. I didn't laugh. I didn't laugh. And I also have a plus in there.

It says, let's be honest here. Admiral Schofield is an all-time great name. It's the truth. All right. Last one that I had on my list was Shammori Ponds. Shomori Ponds, I've loved him. Yes, don't you owe me? Your list stinks.

Don't you owe me? There was a four-game stretch last year. Somebody turned me on to him, and I started watching him. And there was a four-game stretch last year. year, sophomore year. He played Marquette, number one Villanova, number four Duke, number six, Xavier. These were his point totals. 44, 26, 33, 31, and his team won three of those games. And he didn't have, I don't see anybody else from St. John's on any of these lists. Wait a minute. This dude can flat score. End of story. He can't score. I know he can score.

There ain't a gym or a part or nowhere. 36 24 36 from like brick house by the Commodores? I said 44 No, 44 26 33 31. Oh wow. Pretty big. Okay. And you and you got 47 guys ahead of him a lot of which is done absolute dick. And this guy, let me tell you what you know what Pons is from the field though. He's a brick. No, he's not.

You don't score 44. being a brick house. He can put a lot, he can drive and get contact. You name the way to score. He does it. He's a scorer.

He's an inefficient, smaller guard. No. He's fine. He's a fine prospect. There's a high probability that he fails, Chris. Get him off your list.

Tell Danny to take him off. No. I'm not moving off him. I'm not moving off him. I'm right and you're born per user. all right. Chris, he's a brick house, dude.

I've got Washington, Washington, Nikiel, Ty Jerome, Schofield and Ponds. Listen, I'm trying to do this. I'm not doing this easy. I had to challenge my brain.

Some of us have brains that need to be challenged. And then what I, hey, what I added this year, what is now going to be called the Landry Shaman Award. Oh,

I like it. That's cool. I told you that last year, I was talked out of Landry Shaman. damn it because of medical. You know, he had lost those seasons. And there he is hitting game winners in the playoffs.

And I'm like, oh, my God. How did I not have him on the list? I really did get talked out of it. So this year, the guy with medical that is going to be drafted entirely too low. And we are actually going to, we're going to end this by being in unison on this. It's O'Keekee from Auburn. I dig it. Yes.

Hey, I'm dead serious. I think he would go in the lottery. if he did not blow his ACO. In this draft, I think he'd go in the lottery. And listen, there were other guys that were able to be considered for this. Obviously, Bull, Bull, somebody told me that Cam Johnson's going to get med flagged. I'm not reporting that. I'm telling you.

I had three people tell me that. Well, you can sort of like report that just by reading the tea leaves here. Like, look at his history. He had surgery on his hip in 2018 to correct a bone issue. Right. and to correct a torn labrum. So it's like with Cameron Johnson, that's one of my issues with his game. I want to talk about Okieke, but with Cameron Johnson, it's like, yeah, he shoots 46% from

three. Yeah, he's a really good free throw shooter as well. So you have confidence in his shot. But to me, he's more of a standstill shooter, not a dynamic shooter off screens necessarily. That could happen long term, but it wasn't there in college. It's not there at 23 years old. So then you factor in the medical. on top of that. You factor in the fact that he's an average defender, not a good defender. To me,

there's not a lot of appeal there. I think he's going to be like one of those Jarebko-esque players or a B-Elisa type of player, which is fine, but not a guy I'd want to draft ahead of a bunch of others, like O'Kiki, Chris. All right, then here's the deal. You got to move O'Kiki up. 30 is way too low. I mean, listen, man, like here's the thing with this draft. To me, this draft has been sort of misconstrued in the sense. People call it weak. It's weak with superstar talents. It is weak with guys that you see a path to superstardom, but it is strong with guys that you see a path towards being really strong role players.

And for me, it's like, I want to move O'Kiki up and I will move him up in my update, but I'm not sure how far I can move him up. You know what I mean? That's sort of where I'm at. It's like, do I want to put O'Kiki ahead of Boll Boll Boll? I kind of do. Like, Boll Boll B has a high probability of failure. but the upside is quite significant.

So, you know, you get away the two. I couldn't find people that liked Bo Bo, but I, over the weekend, I had three different guys, major NBA guys, tell me it has gone way too far. I know. I know.

I have him too low, too. My update, I look forward to getting an update out. They tell me, look, in this draft, you take that kid, if that hits, he says,

some people have brought up Porzingas, you know, but that kid can, really shoot threes and he is taller than him like he is like nothing that we have ever seen we've never seen anything like him if it hits it is absolutely absurdity and so it's just gone way too far you know we're down to the point where in these mock drafts the reward is just way outweighs the risk especially when you're talking about taking him amongst some of the other guys that or ranked around him, that if it hits, you have absolutely just nailed it.

So I did get blowback on him for the first time this past weekend where it was like, you know, Chris, like you can't put him on your list of do not fail because of the injury stuff. He's like, but if he can play, if he maximizes his potential, it's nowhere like any of these guys that are surrounding him in this draft. But obviously there's a big bet that he won't by most of these teams. yeah because with bowl bowl it's not just the health it's the fact that i know he's so skinny with his twig legs and his thin upper frame that he's not super super mobile on the perimeter so he's

going to be somebody who gets blown by but he's also so skinny and lacks lower body strength that he's just going to get back down with ease by true big men like he's not going to be able to handle yokech or a bead and like he has effort issues on top of that as well on defense so it's like what is he he's probably more of an offensive specialist. And I like him a lot as a guy that you take a swing on in the late first round. But there's so much risk there. And I'm not sure where a team will feel comfortable. But that's one of the things I'm most looking forward to on draft night is where does

bowl bowl go. I think he could go in the lottery. I do. It wouldn't surprise me. It would not surprise me at all. No. All right. I'm going to tell you two more things real quick.

And I'll run them by you and tell me what you think. The one that I, I am sneaky wondering where he ends up because a lot of people I talk to clammed up in a way where it felt like, I don't know, it felt like, hey, I don't want to divulge too much because we love him, maybe.

And maybe I had the read wrong, whatever. But it was very strange because I'm now so intrigued by where he goes, because I think it could be higher than where he is currently ranked. And it's Langford. from Indiana. I think that he could go higher than where he is rated right now because I felt like, I don't know,

there's always somebody that I get the sense that people are not being totally forthright in opinion on, right? They don't kill him. They don't go over the top loving him. Information just seems harder to come by. And there were multiple times where I had conversations about him, where I felt like, geez,

I don't know where the hell this guy is going to go in the draft. But I do think there's people out there that really like him. I do. You know,

we played with the busted thumb all year and he was an amazing high school player. He's a confusing prospect. Yeah, he's got talent. He certainly has got a lot of talent.

That's for sure. Yeah. You know? He's confusing. And so he could go, if he does go later, and then, interestingly enough,

the deepest sleeper that I had multiple people mentioned to me. And he may not even get drafted. I don't know. He is not in your top 60. I went and pulled it up. I tried to just scale down. So you may not have any opinion whatsoever.

I had multiple people mentioned to me the point guard from Mississippi State, Quindary Weatherspoon. Oh, yeah. I wish we had him in there. That was interesting, though. I had a couple people mentioned people that liked him, Quindary Weatherspoon,

the kid from Mississippi State. he's intriguing it's just a deep sleeper right a possible he had a good draft combine too like six five long smart player and i think he killed portsmith i think he did great there good shooter yeah like he should be in the top 60 for he's a big he's a big guy you know he's got size he won three state championships in mississippi as a point guard he was a big recruit for ben howland Ben Howland guys usually get to play early too. Coaches usually love them because they defend. These Tony Bennett, Buzz Williams, Ben Howland,

there's a lot of guys that have played for them. And I remember 100 years ago reading an article that Luke Rashard and Balmute was talking about why UCLA guys had success. There was a bunch of them that had maybe been more successful than what they even were at UCLA. And he said the reason is we all have to play defense and confidence. knowledge. And when you get to the NBA, that is the thing that keeps you off the court is making mistakes, not communicating. Coaches just won't play you. And the best thing you can do to get better is actually being able to log NBA minutes. And so I think there's a group of a, and I remember

thinking this is, there's a lot of wisdom in this, that coaches will play you early if you are able to hold your own on the defensive end. They will let you miss shots. What they will not let you do, is F up the defense. And so if you find guys that had to defend in college, that many times they can be good bets because when they get to the pros, they're already conditioned to do that. And it gives you a big leg up in your development

because you were able to get on the court early. I buy that, don't you? I'm buying what you're selling, Chris. Yeah, maybe so Quindary-Weatherspoon. Maybe you'd be able to get on the court. Put him in there. I'm telling you, I had two different guys tell me, that they liked him, but maybe, I don't know.

If he doesn't get drafted, I promise you, he'll get a call two seconds after the draft. I cannot wait. Let's make our predictions on the fourth pick, because that's the one we don't know. Zion, Jha, and Barrett are going to go one, two, three. Who actually ends up being taken forth? Let's just say Culver. Jared Culver from Texas Tech. I

Garland is the one that everybody's got, right? But now they're probably not taking Garland unless they move that pick. I'll say Boy, I don't know if they'll take Culver. Geez. I'll say the pick gets traded

and that Garland goes. I dig it. I'll say the pick gets traded and it's Garland. Kevin, I can't wait for the NBA draft. All of your amazing coverage of the NBA draft for the ring. or everybody keep a look out for that article that I'm going to put up. And it better explains myself,

even though Kevin crapped on at least three of my guys. All right. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you, Kev. Have a great one, Chris. I'm looking forward to the draft. They'll be awesome. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch.

If you dig what you're here, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week.