The Ringer NBA Show - KAT Leads Knicks to Game 3 Win. Plus, Grizzlies Fall and Face an Uncertain Future. | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

Logan, Raja, and Howard mf'in Beck are back and start the pod with Karl-Anthony Towns's dominant night in Detroit (2:08). Now that the Knicks have regained home-court advantage, how should fans feel after the victory? What are we learning from the OKC-Memphis series (25:08)? Are we a game away from seeing the Grizzlies break up their Big 3—Ja Morant, Jaren Jackson Jr., and Desmond Bane? Also, Anthony Edwards got fined $50,000 for comments directed at a fan during Game 1 against the Lakers. The guys have some thoughts on how much Edwards has been fined this season and what that indicates (41:43). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producer/Audio: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Additional Production Support: John Richter and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-dash-help.com. Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games. Yeah, the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the trades, the playoffs are coming up.

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Spopping. Real ones. Lernernernernerich here. Rosabell there. Howard Beck in the motherfucker cut. Victoria! On the video. Cliff on the boards.

Man, what a week of postseason play and storylines. Can't wait to get into it. I just want to make the disclaimer. I wanted to start this show by talking about OKC and their comeback. But Cliff last night said, no, we got to talk about the New York Knicks first because bigger city, bigger market. So for any of you real ones out there that think we disrespect small markets, it's not SSR producer. So we're going to talk about the Knicks first. The Knicks took game two or game three, excuse me, of the first round series.

against the Pistons. What a game, man. I was not expecting a Carl Towns legacy game. Me and Roger talked about how at least I wanted to see more from Carl Towns and who am I, but I wanted to see more from him as a number two. And he more than delivered. There is a line. When I was a kid, Raja and Howard, you know, I was really, you know, misguided and trying to figure shit out. and they used to listen to this rapper by the name of Webby. He still listen to him. He has a record called I'm Hot on the Savage Life 2 album. And there's a line on there that says,

I'm gonna be bigger than Jigga if they don't hit me up first, right? And I always took that mindset seriously. And I wanted Carl Towns to evoke that mindset. And he has done that thus far in game three. And I want him to continue to do that for the rest of the series and by extension the rest of the playoffs. Raja, how does he evoke that mindset? Throughout the playoffs in the next.

I'm gonna be bigger than Jigga unless they hit me up first. That might that level of confidence. Yes, that's the line. We need that level of confidence. All right. How does he keep that up? You guys don't hear that banging? Nobody hears that.

No, we don't hear that banging. I'm gonna block it out then. I just went noise reducing as I, uh, so I thought he did a good job look clearly clearly Detroit we talked about the double teams they were sending at him um you know in game two they look to have confused him a bit if i mean i i need to really go back and look at it i didn't see the the variety of looks that they gave him in game two but he was like fuck that which is what you have to be when you are a number one or a a one a one a b a two a two like you can't accept those doubles in the way that don't allow you to do your job and i thought last

night he did a really good job of, you know, knowing where it was coming from, knowing it was going to be there regardless and just being aggressive despite that. So, you know, he got himself going. There were some, you know, he did a much better job of just catching and shooting, which, you know, if you're doing that and you're not having to get into your, you know, quote unquote bag, it doesn't give any type of double a chance to really get there. You're just squeezing open looks. But even when he did and they got him the ball, breath the line extended or below, he went to work in a way that kept him out of the paint a lot of times and away from the double. And so, like, you just have to be aggressive.

Like, you just have to look at what they did to you from game to game, figure out, you know, that baseline flood that they were using against him, you know, primarily last night. He did a really good job of either attacking quick to the middle on it, kind of leaving that guy that's on the baseline kind of out of position to really affect him on a double. Or when he went towards the baseline, it was some sort of fade, pull up, like something before he got to the secondary defender. So, you know, you just stay aggressive and make your mind up that even if they're doubling, unless it's just a red where they're hitting you and making you get rid of the ball, that you're going to get up a certain amount of shots.

Like, you know, your team needs you to produce to a certain degree. You can't accept a defensive, a defensive, like, game plan that's going to, like, take you out of your ability to produce for your team if you can help it. Howard, we, you know, the league and by extension of sports in general is all about reputation. And reputationaly, Carl Towns in the postseason hasn't been very good, right? Like, he has taken his lumps both on the majority of his time in Minnesota. Reputationalally, if he continues to play like this, what does this do for him in the NBAI and basketball at large? What does this do for him if he continues to be that number two, continues to play hard, continues to put up the numbers that he's putting up, and more, most importantly, the Knicks win in the postseason.

Well, that last part is obviously the most important part, right? Like, if Towns has a big first round and the Knicks somehow lose anyway, that's not going to do anything for anybody. You know, Towns has suffered from a couple of different things in the course of his career, right? Like one, smaller market, Minnesota, two, bad ownership, Minnesota, not the greatest supporting cast, although, you know, look, he's had, multiple fellow number one draft picks with him. Some of them just haven't performed like number one overall draft picks. Hello, Andrew Wiggins. So there's been a lot on him. But also, you know, like, there's a lot of personality stuff and a lot of reputational

stuff that just has to do with like perceptions of towns, right? Like, he's, he's kind of corny sometimes. He talks the way he talks. He gets caught on on the, not caught on, but like when he was miced up a couple of years back and he's like, now they got to come to our house or whatever it was. They got to come to Minnesota. Like he just, he just he doesn't come off like your typical or prototypical NBA badass, right? So some of this is just perception because the numbers I think are usually there. I thought that the nice thing last night, he came out incredibly aggressive. And, you know,

some of that was just hitting his first few threes and some of that was actually going to the basket. He got it in that, that, that little scuffle between him. him and Paul Reed and Mitchell Robinson and, you know, just kind of like, all right, I'm in this. Like, you know, he's, he smiled as it's as it was starting to get broken up. Like, we're not really doing this because it's the NBA in 2025. No one's really doing this. But he was right in there. I thought that was good.

He had a late block, like the final minute or two. Big block. Like, that was important. It's stuff like that. Like, you know, like, Carl Anthony Towns is who he is. And I don't think there's anything. No one should be criticizing that. We get too caught up in the personality stuff.

I'm not even, I don't even like bringing that up because I don't want to put too much weight on it. But it is the way that people see him is a little bit through the way he presents himself. As a player, the dude's great. But you do have to prove it over and over again in the playoffs. And some of that has to do with your toughness on both ends of the court. some of that has to do with delivering in crunch time and that block goes a long way for that. They've got control of the series again. They took home court advantage back and that's huge.

There's now all the pressure in the world on this Young Pistons team to win game four at home because if they don't, they're toast. Can I just add to that? I agree with it. My bad, Logan, before you two, somebody up. The block, the crunch, you know, post like the little shimmy shoulder fade to the baseline. like those are those are big time clutch plays that that go towards kind of changing the narrative but I would argue like even if like let's say the Knicks didn't win the series right hypothetically but he played to to that level night in and night out through the course of like seven games

you know I think that's a step for him too right because we're talking about having those performances consistently right like not not right that's what we're talking about right can he consistently deliver you know to that to that level maybe not to the tune of the exact point, you know, production last night. But that's, that's the narrative. I think he's trying to shake. Like, in these playoffs, can I consistently be like a true 1B or number two? And so, you know, I, but he's got to do that night in and night out.

It can't be like I show up every, you know, two games. Like, this is a job that requires consistent. Well, I think about when you say that, Raja, all the times that you have talked about how role players have a relationship with the stars in the, the way on court, right, where if you can pencil in player X who is a star to get you 28, 5, and 5, that really helps the rest of the roster, like the Raja Bells, like the O'GNanobes, like Josh Hartz helps them put them where their place is. But like when your star is inconsistent in the way that Kat can be, even in the regular season,

that kind of messes up the flow, right? Where you're like, I don't know if is he going to give me 25 or is he going to give me 15. I don't know if I can pencil it in. So then it kind of puts pressure on the other guys, right, to do that. And when there isn't that consistency, right? Well, I was a little, I mean, I was a little, like, I lacked self-awareness, I guess, because I didn't really care what a star did. Like, I, if Tar was missing, I got more shots.

Like, I didn't give a shit. I was trying to get 30. You know what I mean? Like, that's just- Fuck them. You know? But that's the feeling I had, right? Like, whether I'm right or wrong, I just felt like, hey, I don't get to do it because they're better than me.

But if they're not here, that just means I got to do it. So, so, but yeah, generally speaking, I do agree with you, Logan. Like for the, for the, for most guys who have settled into a role in the NBA, um, it's unfair to ask them, um, to have to step into someone else's role regularly. and in those type of environments for the team to be successful. One-offs, sure, dude, like any role player on any given night can pop off and get you 30 and help you win a game. But if that role player is having to do that every third night because we don't know

if our true stars are going to show up, I mean, that speaks to bigger problems. And that's, you know, we're not equipped to do that. We could be lacking as much self-awareness as I clearly was. but like that's that's not my job there's a reason that's not my job because i can't do that consistently so asking that's why you're getting paid but you're getting paid mofo that's your job so yes we need we need you guys to you know come out and you know have the look in your eye man it might not it might not always translate into success you know it might not translate into you had the 27 that we needed but if it looks like you only shot 11 shots you didn't shoot a shot in the fourth quarter um

You know, the stats from game two, that's like we weren't even there to like compete and do the job we're paid to do. And that's different for a role player. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, look, if you're out there swinging, shooting, doing what you normally doing, you're not making them, dude. We're all human. But it is a much more comforting spot for the role guy to look into the star's eyes and say, okay, he's here for the shits. Like, whether this works or not, like, he's here tonight. And then you let the chips fall where they may.

I want to talk to you about one of your favorite subject, Raja, the referees. Love it. Wait, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I love this series, though. I love the series, because it's my favorite series. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's one of the reasons why we're leading the show with it.

But, like, so in the last 10 seconds, and I want to get your opinion on it's a basketball opinion, I forget what the score was, but it was a side-out-of-bounds play, and the Knicks get the ball to Brunson, and it seems like it was an over and back, right? Even Brunson, like, I feel like with basketball players, they always snitch on themselves by the reactions that they have. I remember quitting posts when I was in Houston had fouled somebody behind the line, and he didn't even fake it. He said, fuck really loud, right? Like, he didn't even fake and try to, like, play it off. And Brunson did the same thing when he caught the ball. It seemed like he was like, oh, shit, shit, just a back court, a bad court. And he got fouled. They gave him a word him to

free throw, Zach Zarbha said that in the pool report, Brunson and the trajectory of the pass were headed toward the back court. Brunson's momentum was taking him there when his body touches his ball. That's why that play was legal. So that happens, right? And then I think it was a second left. Brunson shoots a free throw. It intentionally tries to miss a free throw because there was no more seconds

if I don't think the pissants had time. There was not enough time for them to, if they missed, to actually heave a shot. It proved their probability to win. But the clock didn't go off. I believe what happened was the ball, the clock went out when the ball hit the rim as opposed to when someone touched the ball. All that being said, how would you grade the referee in the final 20 seconds of the game And do you agree with the calls?

The last one is a bit more just like it's a mistake. The first one is a little bit more of a gray area. I mean, look, in fairness, I was at that point, the draft was going on to the NFL draft. So, you know, I was, I did not really pay attention to that back court foul. Love the Raiders pick, by the way. Go ahead, Raiders. Yeah. So that one wasn't really on my radar like that.

like if I had just been watching the broadcast by itself and locked in like that. And when I rewatch this morning, I didn't spend any time on it either. So I don't have a great answer for you as it relates to that 20 seconds, Logan. What I will say is I love the way they're reffing the series. And that's kind of the reason, you know, I say this is my favorite series. I mean, they're, you know, these games are compelling. You know, we can say whatever we want, but like New York's closers closed better last night. You know, Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson, like they closed better.

So, you know, I thought they deserved to win it. Like two minutes left in the game. They were able to get to what they wanted to do and get those buckets in a way that Detroit didn't do as well. But as it relates to the refs, they're letting them hoop. The level of physicality in this series is really, really, really fun for me to watch. They're getting after it. You're seeing bodies on the ground. Dudes, there are multiple scuffles where guys are getting a little upset with each other.

other, the amount of the amount of 50-50 balls that are being pursued by like two guys, you know, dive in, three guys diving in there. I think the rest are doing a good job of letting this series be physical to a point. Because I like that. It's more fun for me to watch, but not letting it get over the top. I don't think they've lost control of this series. And that's not an easy thing to do to allow guys that big, that strong, that competitive, to really get after each other in a way that you normally don't see now.

and not have it boiling over, you know, all the time to still be able to have some control over that. So I like the way it's been officiated by and large. Good shit, Raz out here. Look at you. You are complimenting the reps, man. Look at that. That's called growth. Hey, listen.

It's not called growth. What I do is call a spade a spade, whether you agree with me or not. As I see it, that's what the fuck I'm going to call it. So don't accuse Raj of growing or evolving. Yeah, never that. God forbid. God forbid I compliment the man. Howard.

I too refused to grow up. Yeah. Fuck that. We got two toys of rest kids in here. Howard, how big of a series is this for the, we know how big of a series this is for the Pistons

for all the reasons, right, just because they haven't been in the States, but how big of a series is this for the Knicks, right? Where all season we've basically just been writing their obituary talking about their,

including Cliff, by the way, Chief among them. Mostly Cliff. Mostly Cliff. Yeah, I'll give them a chance to defend himself in a second. But how important is this for them in their psyche for a game like this to happen, right? Where this is a babe threes, fives, and sevens are always huge games in series.

And for him to, what up, Beck's cat, who was out here, just wanted to make an appearance as well. And Beck is trying to hold it together. Yeah, just jumped in your lap. Okay. Anyway, for Beck and the cat, and the cat is welcome to answer the question as well. how big of a series is this for them, knowing all the things that we have talked about, about them, about maybe their readiness throughout the season, and maybe if they could get upset at end this round, they're kind of pushing back on this early in the series.

I mean, listen, this has been, and I wrote about this last week between games one and two or earlier in the week, I should say, like, even Knicks fans, including our buddy Ben Stiller, who was at the game last night with Timothy Shalameh. I love how casually Ben just was like, yeah, I'm going with Chalemay tomorrow. He got more screen time than Chalemay last night on the broadcast. It's crazy. It's funny. It's crazy.

The place was apparently ear splitting, according to Ben and everybody else. Jake Fisher, our buddy, tweeted at one point that he couldn't hear the whistles. And then, like, if you heard J.B. Bickerstaff afterward, like, J.B. Bickerstaff might have blown out a vocal cord. He sounded like awful. That place was crazy. Even Knicks fans this season, and I know a lot of them obviously here in New York, have been like really kind of like not sure what to make of the Knicks.

Like, okay, you went all out to add towns and Mikhail Bridges. And are you demonstrably better? Because the record and everything else suggests that you're about the same. You know, a little better offensively, little worse off defensively, a little less depth, little less grit because they lost even Chenzo and Isaiah Hartnstein. Like they just, they're not necessarily better, worse, or otherwise. They're just different. And all that said, you still expect you have to at least be getting out of the first round. Like, I think the Knicks and their fans understand, like, they, they are a talent level below

the Celtics. And that collision course is, is not, does not bode well for the Knicks getting to the conference finals. But you do have to at least win the first round series. So I think, when you lose home court advantage. And when the, you know, look, the Pistons, even in first in game one, they were holding up pretty well. They fell apart in the fourth quarter because that's what happens to a young team making its first playoff appearance. Game two showed that the Pistons have adjusted.

They figured out how to play in this environment. But last night, fourth quarter kind of was more reminiscent of game one. Like Cunningham's pulling up short on a, I think it was a three-pointer. And, you know, a couple of, of miscues, a couple of bad turnovers that, I mean, obviously, I don't think the Pistons were going to do anything with that last inbound's play with a half a second left, but Jalen Duren's inbound pass flying over him and out of bounds, like stuff like that's going to kill you. So the Knicks are back in control. And I think winning this series, all it will do for them.

This doesn't do anything for the Knicks other than gets the weight off for a minute. It's a sigh of relief. Like, okay, we didn't get snuffed in the first round. because if they lose in the first round, that's when there's hell to pay. And the Knicks have been really stable for the last several years ever since Leon Rose and Tom Thibodeo arrived. But a first round exit, there would be a lot of noise. So they need to win this if for no other reason than to show we're still on the right track and then see where things go against Boston.

Before I put a ball on this, let's go back to Detroit. Well, no, before I put a ball on this, Cliff, come here, buddy. Come on. Let's see what you've got to say, then. Cliff is good. Cliff, he talked a lot of shit, man. Shout out Saba, baby. Shout out to all the homie. Shout out to everybody in Detroit.

You talked about shit. You know, Detroit. Detroit showed out last night, bro. No, Detroit. Detroit won. Detroit. The crowd won the game for sure. Every celebrity in Detroit was there, dog.

How are you feeling during the series? You were talking a lot of shit on behalf of the Pistons. You had two words, Detroit basketball. I thought you moved there for a second. How are you feeling about this series of the pistons? Detroit like, Detroit like a second, third home to me. So first of all, it's always all up with the deed, you know what I'm saying? Shout to all the man, Craig Reynolds.

You know what I'm saying? Detroit's running back. That's my God. But let's just put it this way, Doug. I'm still riding with the pistons, you know? I wish my boy Isaiah Stewart was playing. You know, it's still some toughness. Cat wouldn't have got all them damn easy buckets.

You know, last night, it was just a little rough night for the pistons. It probably a little shell shock. Damn, everybody finally came to the game. Everybody was iced out. They was blinded by. on the sidelines when they do that little, the flash game. Blinded by the moment, Roger.

Wow. But look, Detroit, my team, Detroit, we're going to make this little comeback. Kay is going to be a little bit more efficient next game. He won't go 10 for 25. We got to play Tobias Harris less because, trust me, I know about the Tobias Harris experience. Switch some things up.

Switch some things up a little bit. And, you know what I mean? We back in it. Come on. Detroit, baby. 3-13. Okay. Detroit basketball. Let's go.

Everybody in the 3-13. Oh. I think Cliff's I think Cliff likes Detroit because if you squints hard enough It's a red, white, and blue team. He's like, is this the Sixers, maybe? No, never mind. Fandle is letting you get in on the NBA playoffs action

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Gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Let's do a little round robin about playoffs. from last night. I'm going to ask you guys some questions about some series. Then we're going to get to our branded segment from Amazon. Thunder Grizzlies. Wow.

Historic collapse, the fumbling of the bag or an historic comeback, depending on what side of the ledger you are on. We're going to take the Memphis part real quick. So the Memphis just packed this thing up and go home, Howard. Is it over? Is this a series? Like, this has been the most. I guess this is a really entertaining game, but like, I don't think anyone's surprised by this outcome, right?

The, the, uh, OKC is up three, three, oh, for a reason. Like, what are we learning from this series, Howard? Not much. We're, we're learning that I was right 20 years ago when I said they never should have abandoned the best of five first round. Because then this thing would just be over and the grizzlies would be out of their misery and we wouldn't have to watch any more of these games. or even pay attention. It should just be over. Second to that, if we are going to have a best of seven first round series, which we've now had for 20-something years, much to my chagrin, we need like a mercy rule. You get blown out by like 20-something. It's just done. It's just over. Like, they were on pace

for like the biggest point differential in a playoff history or something. I mean, look, kudos to the Grizzlies for fighting back last night and for having a 29-point lead. And who knows what happens in that game if Jod doesn't go out. on that, on that scary play. I do. I do. They win the fucking game. No, they win that game.

Do you think they win? Yeah, they win that game. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry. Maybe. We'll see. Who knows? Or we won't see.

It's all hypothetical. I mean, look, the thunder are really good. And when they want to clamp down defensively, as we saw again last night, and easier to do when Jaws not out there. But still, like, I am not dismissing the possibility that even down 29 with jaw healthy, that the thunder might have just clamped down and the Grizzlies might have faded because that's what both teams have done all season, right? It's unfortunate to happen the way it did.

It's unfortunate that Jha got hurt. But yeah, I mean, it's 3-0. No one ever has come back from 3-0. We know this one's done. I think the only real question, and this has been the only real question ever since they got smoked in game one. It's really just about this off-season.

And the one thing, like not to be overly glib about what do we learn, you do learn something about contenders, right? Like, they could have lost by double digits last night. And then everybody would be like, oh, maybe the Thunder, you know, do have some, some vulnerabilities. But, you know, look, I've seen plenty of great teams. You know, like the Celtics win the championship in 08. They had to go seven against the Hawks in the first round.

I think like no team won a road game in that series. That happens. They won a road game into the finals that year. Yeah. So, like, sometimes stuff comes up and you don't remember the details later. You just remember the team was a champion. But last night, I think it was the first time in a while that people might have looked and gone, whoa, are the thunder really built to go through three rounds in the West and then go beat

the Celtics or whoever for the championship? I wouldn't put that much stock in it myself. I think what this is all ultimately leading to is obviously thunder advancing and having stiffer tests and the Grizzlies having to do a hell of a lot of soul searching about this core group. Zach Lowe and I talked about this on his pod earlier in the week. Like this is not real big three. We call it a big three because we throw that term around a lot, but this is not a real big three. Jha, Bain and Jared, uh, Jaron Jackson Jr. just aren't good enough, not individually, not collectively. And the grisies are going to have to come to grips with that sooner than later. Maybe they have according to, uh, Howard Beck in February. Um, um, stop, stop it.

Roger, what did you learn about the, uh, the thunder in this, in this, uh, comeback? Um, yeah, no, It's a good comeback. I agree with Howard. Like that's what you hope to see out of teams that think that they have a chance to win a championship is they just keep chopping. Right? Like, and they found themselves, you know, in a hostile environment against a team that was red hot. And, you know, they just kept chopping. Even before the jaw went out, they hit the skids offensively there.

And what was that? The second quarter for a while, they just couldn't make a bucket. And they weren't defending up to their normal standard. They just kept hooping. They kept playing. They kept competing. And then, you know, unfortunately, the job fall, I am, I am 99.9% sure that with John Morant there, I don't care how much they locked down OKC, that is.

You're probably not winning that game. You're not coming back from 30 with a true, a true guy that can break down defense. They just lost their ability to break down defense in any real way, right? Everyone was out there just trying to fend for themselves and create shots. you got guys that aren't normal creators. You know, with Jah out there, it just creates opportunity by the nature of the coverages that they have to play. But having said that, like, I am, that's impressive, whether he was there or not.

It was impressive to see, okay, see come back. I do, I do want to touch on, like, there are a few things that kind of triggered me a little bit. It was the play with Jha and all the Lou Dort, like, you know, what Lou Dort was getting. And, you know, he got a little bit of shit. Some people gave him a pass. And then, you know, the other one when, where, uh, Jimmy Butler, and I guess we'll get to that series eventually in that play. And I saw some people, especially with the Lou Dort one, just saying like how dirty of a play it was.

I just didn't, I just didn't see it like that. I mean, it's an unfortunate ball. Both of them are. You don't want to see anyone. Same what I mean. I didn't think that was malicious. No, no, at all, at all. I'm glad we all agree on this one.

I was curious to hear Raja on this. Like, neither of these plays struck me as dirty. They just struck me as unfortunate and circumstantial. And like Lou Dorts's leg was slipping out for his foot was. slipping out from under him and then he's reaching back while he's off balance because he doesn't all of a sudden the ball's gone behind him and he's like turning around it's split second and he's off balance and Josh Tiven the referee when they reviewed it said as much so anyway sorry go Raj yeah no you know you're right it was it was a tough play and even like let's say let's say like it's never a good

idea to bridge someone and by bridge someone I mean like when they are up in the air off at one foot or two feet you take your body and chop their legs out from under them there's no there's no place for at. Like that, that's not something that that you should be doing. And if you see someone do that, they are a dirty player, right? Like that, but like, let's say in the world where Lou Dort is not falling down and he's chasing an offensive player who's going to lay it in and that offensive player drops it behind him, right? He drops it behind Lood Dort. So Ludoort is turning around to see a John Morant like launching himself in the air. Ludoort has every right to make a play on that ball. Like, not to bridge him or undercut him, but to make a man.

make a play on the ball. And if that play on the ball results in a fall, like, we've gotten to a point where you can't even make a play on a ball once someone decides they're going to launch themselves in the air. I disagree with that. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because there was one thing that that hit me in rewatching this a little bit, probably way too many times. But I was curious just to kind of see sequence of events and where Lou Dord's body was and how, you know, he's slipping and all this stuff. But to your point, Raja, like if he stays upright and all he does is turn around as a defender, which is what you're supposed to do. I don't want to like, you know, like blame the victim here, but like,

Jha tried to launch himself over Lou Dort. Yes. Like, Jah, you could have like decided to cut around him. And especially since Dort can't see you, like, you would have easily gotten around him because he can't react in real time as he's turning around. Some of this is John Morant deciding he always wants to dunk on guys. And a lot of what's happened to him into the course of his career, we've talked about this too.

He gets hurt a lot because he's built the way. he's built and he launches himself into traffic and at bigger guys all the time. He put himself in jeopardy, frankly. I feel bad for what happened to him, but he put himself in jeopardy with the way he decided to launch himself. Yeah, he plays balls to the wall. And I, and kudos to that. And I, and you, wind up with some amazing highlights when you're doing that. But like, if someone plays defense in a way that, that, that puts you in a tough spot there, like that doesn't make it dirty. And so like I, I just wanted to address that. The second thing I think is interesting. interested in. Like, this is kind of what I was saying. Denver finds themselves in a situation

with their back against the wall. Clearly Memphis is in a situation where, I mean, they're probably already have slid off the wall and they're out the door. But the point is, both of these teams tried to sell us on having these two coaches, giving their rosters the best chance to be competitive in the short term, which I called bullshit on when they tried to sell that to us, right? In a world where you said to me, we're not having an open coaching search at the end of this season. Thomas Lassallo and Adelman will be the coaches of these respective teams going forward. And what we'd like to do is give them some real-time playoff experience, giving them a head start going into next year. Okay, fine.

But nobody's really said that. Both of these teams are going to have probably open coaching searches and go in the direction that they see fit. And in that world, you're trying to sell me that these two dudes are better equipped in these situations to put these cats in the best possible heads. To get out of it. And fucking tie lou. No. And I had experienced head coaches in place that these two guys, their first time around the block, the first time in the head chair, the first time in the playoffs are going to give these respective rosters the best chance to be competitive. Like that's bullshit.

And that's what I was saying back then. And I don't mean to be like harping on it, but that's what stands out to me watching. And that's what is the most compelling thing about these two series to me. Well, Clippers and Denver is actually pretty good. But about this one specifically is like, really, bro? If we knew, Raja, just hypothetically or just to play devil's advocate, because there were there were rumblings of this in both cases. So let's just take it to the extreme, though. Let's say for sake of argument, both locker rooms had completely tuned out their head.

coaches. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened. I think there was, again, rumblings in that direction. Let's just assume, though, that one through 15, no one's listening to Michael Malone, no one's listening to Taylor Jenkins. Do you still feel the same way about having them in place right now? I do. I do. And here's why. Here's why. Because you're not listening to the motherfucker that's coaching you for four days. That's not happening. When the bullets start flying, nobody's listening to that motherfucker. Roger, you didn't listen to the substitute teacher? No one's listening to him. So there is a percent chance. Hold on.

Let me finish. There is a percent chance, though, that like even if we've tuned out the head, right, if we've tuned him out under normal circumstances, the doldrums of an NBA season, this is getting long, we get it. But when the bullets start flying and it gets real competitive and everything gets amped up, there is a percent chance that we will listen to that because we've been in there with you before. We've seen dude in these circumstances before.

And so that's all I'm saying to you, Howard. Like, if you're trying to sell me as to the moves being made to put your team in the best situation for the playoffs, then you've lost me. If you give me some other reason, we can have the conversation. But like, that's not true. Fair. Good shit, Rob. Sorry. Yeah, thanks, man.

I agree. I just thought it was just, I just thought it was just nuts just to like have like just, I mean, because you're essentially saying like you're putting an assistant coach and. a week before the season in place to go against two of the, and I know like we didn't know at the time when they did it, how the standings were going to shake out. But like you put two assistant coaches going up against coach dags and tie Lou, two of the best minds that we have in the league. They have no chance.

Like they don't. Well, at least, at least Adelman had been around the NBA for a long time. Like, Isolo just got here. Yeah, they might for sure. They might,

look, I'm not sitting here telling you definitively. that either one of these series is over, although, like, you know, the, the, it is in Memphis, right? But,

but I want to give those, those coaches some credit. Like, they might be doing an okay job. I'm still sitting here telling you that the other two guys that have been, they would be doing a better job. Yeah.

I mean, and you could also make the argument in the Clippers Nuggets that Clippers should be a, three O in this series, right? Like, even from a, the stamp. Like, last night was,

was the blowout, but the, Clippers have had, by and large, had control of this series all of, like, maybe five minutes of the series. And some fluke should happen. So we'll see what happens. Tomorrow, let's look at the slate for tonight's games really quickly. There's some ramifications. I'll go Pacers, Bucks, don't really care about Clippers or don't really care about Celtics Magic.

No one cares about that one. But Bucks, Pacers, Howard, has a lot of ramifications, right? You know, Bucks come back home. They're down O2. I'd imagine they win this game just because they're a veteran team with pride. But if they don't, what does this say about their offseason and what's to come? I don't know this stats in front of me, but like one of my favorite, just amusing little, like, I don't know, like the pet phrases of the postseason, right? As the team goes down 2-0 on the road.

Ah, it's a long series. They just held serve. These things are lies, people. I just need you to know. Howard's in his bag, Rob. It's not a long series. It's best of seven. That doesn't mean it's necessarily going seven.

So when you're down 2-0, I don't know the percentages in front of me, but like the team down 2-0 loses the series like 75, 79% or something of the time. So it's not a long series. They didn't just hold serve. want to win a series and you're the team that's on the road for the first two games, you're supposed to steal one of those two games, else you're probably toast. So they're in trouble and not just by the ledger, but by watching the games. Like the Pacers are just a better, deeper, more talented, more athletic team that can beat you

more ways. And Janus is doing all the Janus things and he's been great. But like the drop off from him, like Dame came back. Like, you know, granted, they missed Dame game one. Game two, Dame is there. but Dame hadn't played in a month and looked like he hadn't played in a month. But even Dame at full strength, like I think we've seen enough to know. Like, Dame and Janus, this thing is not saving that franchise.

And then you're down to Bobby Portis and Kyle Kuzma and just, and the drop off gets even worse after that. All respect to Brooke Lopez, but he's up there. Yeah, I think we all know where this is going, guys. They're going to lose this series. Is that a prediction? It's just a reality. It's not a prediction.

I just said, you're down 2-0, like 70-something percent. You're going to lose. Unless something crazy happens, injuries or otherwise, yeah, the bucks are losing this series and the bucks are going to have, like you talk about the soul searching thing. These are the stakes of NBA playoffs in the modern era. When you have a star of Janus's caliber and you flame out too many years in a row, then you have all the questions. And the question is going to be, does Janus want out?

Is this the time? He's hinted in the past at the possibility of chasing championships elsewhere. He's been a loyal soldier. He's been loyal to Milwaukee. I want to be here for my entire career. Dame Lillard said the same thing for years in Portland until he didn't. Hey, Howard. Larry June once said, in order to grow, you've got to let go.

Janus is letting go of Milwaukee. Is that what you're saying? I just said what Larry June said because I've been listening to him this morning. But it seemed poignant for this discussion. That's very poignant. I agree. Clutch plays is brought to you by Amazon business. And as a part of Clutch plays, we're going to talk about a play.

I don't know if it's Clutch or not. We're going to talk about it. It was an action that happened in the game. Anthony Edwards got fined $50,000 for, talking about yelling into the stance. Can I say that on this Spotify? He just said that his you feel me is bigger than the other persons you feel me. And then he grabbed the same area.

And then he grabbed the you feel me. And it was fine by the league. $50,000. Me and Howard talked about this in a pre-pod meeting. I was wondering just like, this type of shit happens all the time, right? But in the advent of social media and like viral clips, like this got blown out. What were your thoughts on this fine? And like, what does it say about like the modern NBA where we are?

Because I know back in your day, it sure as hell back in Howard's day, wilder shit was set on the court and two fans. And nothing happened because we didn't see it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, man. How much did he get fine for that? 50 G's. Yeah, I mean, he's like, whatever. He's like 50 grand.

Okay. Raj, you know how much he's been fine total for the season? Because now it's not just, oh, we just. Well, yeah, now I don't know, but it's, yeah. How much? What is it? $370,000. Yeah, that's not like, yeah, that changes it a little bit.

As I saw online, somebody else pointed this out, that's like more than some WMBA players make in a season. That's crazy. It's a lot. More than some. That's like half the team. Yeah. WMBA team. So like 50K and even the 370, considering what he makes, might be, you know, easy to shrug off.

But it's what that collective figure indicates about him. I mean, what does he say though about what he's at right now? What's he make? What does he make today? What is the seller? Let me see for a quick. Anthony Edwards.

Because he just signed a two Edwards salary. Or pocket watch. So 42 million. And like he got to face of Adidas. He's fine. He's fine.

Trust me. He ain't missing no meals. He's still saying whatever. He ain't tripping off of that. Like we are not. Do I think that's responsible? No. But he's still saying, yeah,

I'm not tripping off of that. Whatever. That's the Detus. But he got the Sprite commercial every time I'm, fucking turn on the fucking TV. He's on there. But I would say like, yeah,

things are said back and forth. Things have been said back and forth between fans and players. Typically players don't cross the line of like vulgarity and stuff like that unless it's already been

crossed by a fan or it's just belligerent and and berating from a fan, right? Like if enough is enough, and this isn't an excuse for what he said, by the way. Like I'm not trying to be making an excuse for him. I'm just trying to describe it, right? Like if I'm out there hooping and you're just talking shit to me, I'm going to talk shit back.

Like maybe, but it's not going to rise to the level of me, you know, saying stuff like that, unless you're already in that space or some of the stuff coming out of your mouth is just so wild and obnoxious. or it just is incessant and it won't stop. And so, you know, I don't know what the interaction was with the fan. I don't really give a shit. I would say the same thing I say to my damn kids. I just had this conversation in the car this morning with my son, Ty. I was like, look, man, you guys live in a pretty cool world, man.

Like, as high school athletes, you're getting paid. Like, as college athletes, you guys are making millions. Like, with that comes some really cool opportunities that I didn't get to partake in as a high school or college kid. But what I did get to do was live a childlike, like adolescent life that was free from being judged by everyone else because it wasn't streamed or caught on flip phones or camera phones or posted on the internet for everyone to see.

So, you know, with your, with your, this, this platform and all of these like good opportunities comes some responsibility and come some things that, that you got to navigate that I did not have to navigate. And for aunt, it would be like, yo, bro. you know, hey. And it's wilding right now, bro. Yeah, but you know that's caught. You know it's caught.

You know it's caught. Because you see everywhere it goes, there's 12 cameras, camera phones that are like, he knew what he was doing. Look, back then, people were just heckling you to heckle you. Like, to get the back and forth in some instances because they enjoyed that, right? Like, they got to go home and say, got him. Hey, man, I had Roger Bell in there talking about, hey, bro, I was in his ass tonight. Like, they got to do that.

Now that person is already filming. They're filming as they heckle you to just see what you're going to do and see if they can catch you in the moment. And I'm not above that moment. Like, I'm sitting here telling you, as the 23 to 30 some year old that played, like in the heat of the moment. As the evolved human. I would have turned around and said some wild shit and been caught all over everything.

But, but like you got to, you got to understand. you got to understand what you're dealing with, man. And he might not care. And if he doesn't care, like, who am I to tell him to? But like, you got to know that. Yeah. I mean, the thing with Anthony Edwards is, and like this one, like, it was good nature. But it was like good natured, right?

Like, you see the look on his face. Like, he's having fun. Like, this isn't one of those. Like, we've had, you know, whether it was Russell Westbrook in Utah and some other instance where it's been like fan versus player and it's been like super aggressive and over the line and nasty. and people saying shit they should never actually say. Like, that's a different category.

There's no threat going on here. There's, this is not a fight. Right. Anthony was just having fun. They're just talking shit to each other, which in a different era than an era before, cell phones with,

with, you know, video capability where everything can get blasted out in the world to the world immediately. It's fine. There's like, there was no danger here. There's nothing like,

there's not the first to worry about. The hand-wringing, if there is any, from the league and from others, will be more about, is this appropriate? Is this appropriate as a role model? We use that term loosely, but like kids are watching, kids are listening. I mean, look, we drop a lot of F bombs on this show.

We're not fucking shy about it. I'm not sure I want players to have to be either. I have advocated in the past and have said, I have mocked some of the leagues, you know, over policing of language at the, you know, in press conferences and stuff. But you're sitting there in front of 20,000 people. And as you're yelling back and forth with this fan,

and grabbing your junk and talking about the size of your junk and everything. Like, at some point, like, like the rules of decorum need to apply probably. Howard, he wasn't. He didn't follow the rules of decorum around Barack Obama, bro. You think he's going to give a fuck about what the dudes said? I think he's going to care about somebody fordside. Here's the bigger picture, if I'm going to just zoom out for a second. He also got 17 texts this season and got suspended for the last game of the season because he went over the limit of text.

And when I mentioned that $370,000 figure that includes, I think, all the tech fines that go with. And a game check. If he, if he, I don't know if it was in the fines, we probably got a game check. Well, I got a question for you real quick. Howard and, and, uh, Roger as well. Um, and, and I want to play, I don't know if this is devil's advocate, but I'm going to play this role. There, there's definitely going to be somebody that listens to this podcast and it's like, oh, you guys is over here laughing about and what he did, but y'all ain't laughing about Jai.

y'all not laughing about all these other people that are doing stuff what what is the line here i'll start with raja what is the line here where we tell like aunt like he because there is a maturity thing in this as well right just like there was with jobs i said that other people like how do we talk about that part too as well well number one i i i've i've already said that aunt um needs to continue to mature and and and i think i've said this year that I've seen some maturity out of his game and stuff like that, but I've said in the past that the antics are immature, right? Like, I've said that. I think, you know, the difference with Ant for me is, like, but he, but there are a lot of them. I've talked about, like,

Luca having something to say every single time there's a call that he doesn't like it. It's obnoxious. He needs to mature. Like, Nicola Yochich is the best player on the planet. And, and, And he's obnoxious with it. Like, like, there's, there's some of that too. So, like, I, if I come off, like, I'm not giving them the same amount of grief as I give Ja. It would be because jaw and what he has been reported to be involved with is, is very, very dangerous. Like, it's dangerous in a way that telling someone your junk is bigger than theirs isn't.

Right? Like, you're pointing lasers at people. heads like allegedly like you're the people that you're with like those are dangerous things like there's a there's a young man that claims that he was at your house and you all beat the someone beat the shit out of him because like these are these are physical dangerous assaults like that case was dropped by the way just to just to make sure but i said claiming but i said claiming right like you're brandishing weapons on live streams and stuff like that like guns are a huge issue in in in in in the world in america certainly

and people and kids are looking up to you and they're buying your sneakers and stuff, I find that to be different than you having a self-control issue on the court and getting technical fouls. That's me personally. If people want to debate that, that's fine. We can do that. But I think that they're two separate, while both being immature on some level, two different things we're talking about. I think we want to see young players in this league.

You understand the guys come in and they're often like 19 years old, 20 years old. they're not fully evolved. None of us were at that age. And so I always say, like, we got to give players a lot of grace. They're growing up literally in front of our eyes with this searing spotlight, cameras around them all the time, especially now in today's environment with social media and everything else. So like, give guys a chance to evolve. And we're going to see guys come in sometimes not fully prepared to deal with all the pressures and all the fame and all the wealth and all the publicity. That's fine. But you do have to show some ability to evolve along the way. Even if Rajah didn't want to evolve. Today's young players do need to. So I think, I think that if we're going to put those

two in the same sentence, Anthony Edwards and John Morant, I think it's in both these guys came into the league, you know, in the same era, both really young, both super talented, both could be all-time greats if they want to be, if they are committed enough to it, and could be faces of the league and have both been projected to be and talked about as the next faces of the league when LeBron and Steph and Duran are gone. but you have to do the other necessary things. It's not enough just to be an incredible dunker and to put up highlight reels. You have to win.

You have to lead. You have to mature. And so it's fair to judge them both through that prism. Again, very different things. And Raja said it really well, why Jha and Anthony Edwards are different in this regard because of what's happened a lot off the court. But look, I'll admit this last piece that for me, like I have a contradiction. in my own head. I want guys to be themselves. Like, I want the personality to come through.

I, like, part of what Anthony Edwards, the appeal of him is that there's a little bit of this kind of mischievousness and it's a lack of maturity at times, but he's kind of fun. And he's just himself and I want guys to be themselves. But like, there's still a line. And when you cross that line repeatedly, you get fined $370,000 over the course of a season. And at some point between the texts and the profanity and the gestures and getting into it with fans, like you have to reel in of that to show us that you are more focused on the game and on winning and to show that you are worthy of that pedestal of being a face of the league. Look, I agree.

I'm sorry. Let me just add, Howard, I want people to be themselves too. I agree with you 100%. But this is life, right? Like, this is life. You aren't going to be or you're going to be the same person, whether you're at this beachside bar seven shots deep in Dominican Roald. Republic or if you're at a gala raising money for any worthy cause. You're the same person. You're

going to have the same personality. We want you to be who you are, but you're not going to act the same in both places. Right. Right? Like you're going to be you, but like you're not going to act the same in both places because it's not appropriate to do so. And that's what we're talking about. Yeah. Well said. Hoof. I make sure I get this right. A last second three-pointer, that's the kind of play that defines winners. And when it comes to business, Amazon business is your clutch performer. With fast access to essential supplies and flexible purchasing options, they are there when you need them the most.

So you can tackle unexpected demands and keep your business in the game. Visit business.com to learn more. And I present Cliff Augustine to the program. once again for our motherfucking mailbag. Hello, Cliff. Good afternoon, fellas, man. What's going on? First of all, I want to give a shout out to the Philadelphia Eagles for drafting the best linebacker in the draft of 32.

So go birds. You already know what it is. Oh, yeah, shout out to Logan's now Las Vegas Raiders. They drafted my cousin, Ashen Gentie, you know what I'm saying? Is that really your cousin? It's not my cousin. Any Haitian professional athlete, that's my cousin. Respect.

Respect. All right, let's get to this first one. I was really about to go like, yo, got to get a sign jersey. Like I'm about to ask Roger for a signed D in Jersey when he go to Austin. Stop playing. I'm about to ask for one. Yeah. I've been asking for merch for fucking years and I still ain't got no merch, but I'm about

to get a signed jersey. Yeah, Raj. I'm going to send you a link to the merch site, dog. Yo. Wow. Bro, this is how I know Roger doesn't fuck with me, bro. Because when he first started the pod, I was like, yo, let me get some merch. He's like, yo, I got you.

Send the Adi. It's good. It's good. And now it's like, I'll give you a link to the pod. the merch site. What the fuck, man? Well, in fairness, he ain't have no merch

when we started it. So, like, that was like an American heritage merch. And I don't really have my clause on that. They don't give that. He does have a merch.

You could go check it. Does he have his own merch site? Yeah. Yeah. Go check out. Hey, go check out at DKB3 on Insta. And, like, in his bio, there's a little link to his merch site.

Go ahead and get crazy. Get the fucking out of here. Go crazy. Oh, wait. Hold on. Real quick. Real quick. I just want to say that I followed Dia, obviously, on Instagram.

And I looked at his story. And this is how I know he's an awesome child because he reposted a fucking video of you close lining Kobe and just cry with the laughing emojis. And I think the, I don't know what the caption was, but it was something like, if, if, if, if, uh, if, uh, Dia's dad does something like this, you know you don't want to fuck with Dia or something like that. But it was hilarious that he had that sense of humor. So respect to him. I'm going to look up his merch right now. Appreciate that.

Appreciate that. Appreciate you. All right. First question. First question is from Rob. Evening real ones. Raja. I've just made you the Nuggets GM.

You've just been bounced by the Clippers in round one. Yokish says he's happy to stay for life, but what moves are you making? Is it time to catch you on Murray or are you moving MPJ? Yokish needs more help, but it's difficult without sacrificing too much. Great show. Appreciate the response. Rob Sheffield, England. Okay, Rob.

Thanks for the question, dog. Yeah, for me, I've said this before, I think. Like MPJ, I like him, good player. Yeah, that, that I could move, I could move that. I would move that. I would see, you know, obviously try to figure out exactly what I could get for that. But that's a piece. Jamal is an interesting one for me.

I like, I am a Jamal fan. I like Jamal. I like Jamal and Yokic together. I take a call. I don't know that I would be necessarily out there pitching him to people, but I take a call. I would shop MPJ though, person. I would say the same. I would say the same because I feel like, to Rogers' point,

I think that Murray is more of an institutional piece for this team, right? That's somebody that the bread and butter, the partnership between him and yoke has just been great. MPJ has just been way too inconsistent to justify keeping him on long term. And he's your biggest asset to shop, right? A lot of teams in around the league want a guy like him, whether he's inconsistent or not. but if you want to improve your roster,

he is the guy to trade, absolutely. They're both making a shit ton of money. And Jamal Murray's got a max deal and a bad injury history and has had a really kind of funky last year and a half or so. So the difficulty here is there's not a lot of moves you can make, right? Like Aaron Gordon would be really marketable too,

but like you need Aaron Gordon. Michael Porter Jr., of the core guys left from the championship team, is the one who's the most dispensable, but that also means that any team acquiring him knows that too, and they're not necessarily wanting to give up a lot to get him. I think even Jamal Murray, you might have, like, let's say you put everybody on the table.

And by the way, they lose in the first round and it's crisis time. Everybody on the table. Nothing's nailed down. And, you know, you don't want to break up this incredible pick and roll combination, but like you have to consider everything and you have to consider whatever gets you,

the talent and depth that you need around Yokich. I'm not sure how much you're getting back for Jamal Murray either, though, because of the contract and the injury history. And as much as we talk about him as being like a co-star, he's never been an all-star team or an all-MBA team. I think the nuggets are in a really, really tough spot here. We didn't even talk about the fact that they don't even have a fucking GM right now. Like, they need to make a decision on that fast considering the summer that that is approaching right now. Like, figure you, they have a lot to figure out. It's.

No, they got this, bro. It's nuts. They got this. They're in the best position for everybody right now. Yeah, yeah, that's what they did. That's why they did it for, right? Yeah. That's true. And Yulogh is year 30 as well. This is from Amol Senho. Hi, guys, first of all, shout out to Howard Beck. I learned about you years ago through the three most anticipated words in niche basketball podcasting and enjoy hearing you on all ringer podcast. You're on now. Now that Memphis is about to get eliminated, I've started thinking of job trades. First one, who says no to job for Katie straight up, assuming contracts work for Phoenix. It could give them a runway to start entertaining while they ride out the bill contract in Memphis with KD can make some noise next year. Number two, Jai for Sabonis. Samonis could be pretty effective in Memphis with a free safety like JJJ roving around on defense to help him.

Kang's going to Kang and just get butts in seats with Jod to fight for 34 wins and attempt seed either way. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Best, Amol. Thank you for the kind of words, Amol. Appreciate it. I hope we're pronouncing your name correctly. I checked it beforehand so I can make sure we use to pronounce it. correct. Oh, cool. Way to go, Cliff.

That's why you're the ace producer. So the first one, who says no to Jaff or Katie straight up? The Grizzlies say no. I mean, Katie's awesome, but Katie's nearing the end. He's got a year or two left. He's also going to potentially want a contract extension. Their salaries don't match, by the way. Katie's making 51, now 54 next season.

Jaws making 37, going up to 39 next season. now the Grizzlies have to throw in more stuff. I don't even know how much more complicated this would be because of second apron shit with the sons and everything. No, I don't think that's the match. The Kings won, listen. I can see that happening. I can definitely see that happening.

That would be awesome. Logan, were you and other ones talking about this yesterday? We were talking about yesterday. Yeah, we were just talking about which team is the most like, if like if jaw or lamello. This is before the question came, right? I believe, right? Or maybe you saw the question. Maybe he saw the question beforehand.

And so, okay. Not when we were talking. But like that would be awesome. The king, like, it would be an awesome just display of what the circus is. The kings are. The kings are. They are absolutely interested in John Moran. The kings are absolutely the team that's going to get one of the slightly scuffed up stars that they're going to say like this is our new savior because there's job, whether it's like La Mello.

Like they are definitely in the mix for all of that. For sure. For sure. And they're going to have Doug Christie coach. I'm sorry to all my friends in Sacramento. But the thing, but like, so, his proposal was like for Sabonis. I think if you're getting Jai, you want him with Sabonis, probably. Also, I don't think Sabonis fits with the Grizzlies that well.

And then also like the Grizzlies are left without really anybody to, you know, initiate the offense. Also, I would say like firing notwithstanding to like the coach firing, I think, I think the the the Grizzlies front office is too smart to do a move like that. I don't think they would just do that. I don't think they would even entertain it. But it would be hilarious. And the Kings would definitely push for it.

Look out for the Kings to make some dumbass decisions in the summertime. Roger, you got any thoughts? No, no, I'm good. You guys are the Kings experts, by the way. By the way, as Logan says that, I just want to make it clear, we're basing this on ownership, not necessarily on the new front office or anybody. We're basing this on like the owner has not changed. It doesn't matter how many people they fire.

The owner is the owner. They have Monty McNair who was a really, I thought I could say he had his faults or whatever, but I think he was really solid as a GM. And I think he got overrode on a lot of things. He's going to get his job fast and he's going to pop up somewhere else. Like I do trust in Monty McNair. Yeah. Any more questions, Cliff?

Yeah, let's knock out this next one from, this is from Anness. Anness. What's up, Rowans? There's been a lot of outcry on Twitter about the rocket's physicality with the Warriors. I was curious, what was your guy's thoughts about the way that they're playing the Warriors? Isn't one of the main complaints about this error is that the league is too soft? So why is this a problem? You're only Idahoian Cavs fan, Anness.

Oh, okay. Shout out to Idaho. I will say this, man. I think it's physical both ways. And I know that's a hot take. I think the Warriors have definitely been complaining more. But like, I just, before I got on this podcast, I just saw a montage of Draymond Green literally throwing people around.

Like, he's throwing out, I'm in Tom. And the first, like, 12 minutes of the game, he's out here throwing, like, Amman Thompson around, throwing Dylan Brooks, throwing all these people around. And then they go back and say, well, it's too physical. I will say, like, I think it's been gone. It's a physical series and the reps are really letting them play. The Warriors are absolutely affected by it. But they're playing right into M.A. Adoka's hands in the Rocket's hands by

complaining, because I'm going to tell you one thing. And I've been there, I've been through all the games this series up in Houston. M.A. is not letting up. All the complaints are just going to say M.A. is going to make M.A. say, do that shit even more. Because it's like, also it's the playoffs, man. This is what it is, dude. Jesus.

It's not too. It's the right type of physicality, right? Like, that's what I think. It's the appropriate level of physicality. Like they're supposed to do. Yeah. Listen, Draymond, Dr. Draymond's the dude that just takes the philosophy of I'm just,

if I just keep doing it, they'll stop calling it, right? I'm just going to keep doing it. Some of his, like, play through at, like some of his, like, you know,

like he gets tied up and the next thing you know, he's like shooting a jab in somebody's face. You're like, how did that level of contact, like, prompt you to like jab someone in the face? Bro, did you see the,

Draymond flop? It was awesome. It was awesome. The one to the baseline into the... Yeah, when Jalen Green gave him a little nuts to the face, but like he did the delay, it was phenomenal. Phenomenal, phenomenal. The physicality is the appropriate level of physicality.

A, because you're right, Logan, it is the playoffs. And I've told you that, like, earlier in the pod that my favorite series is the Knicks in Detroit, it's been pretty decent basketball back and forth. The games have been compelling, but, like, the physicality is a part of it for me. I would just add that it has to be like. that when you try to play Golden State in a tuxedo, like that's their game. You don't want to try to

play them in the game that they are the best at. You want to drag them into the mud. You want to get them in a phone booth and just, you know, just tussle, right? Like that's what you're trying to do. The reason sometimes it looks crazy is because it's Steph and his size and his freedom of movement. everyone's just so used to watching people like he runs around so when you see how they're playing him on them screens right now dude they're literally just like fucking boxing him like they're just boxing him and just trying to squeeze him to death bro yeah and i and i i'm here for it like and obviously i'm a huge step fan and step is going to continue to work and figure it out but no one's had an answer for step for a decade i'm here for like uh let's try something let's get physical let's put huh if you look at

Look at the, and Howard's just on the phone right now, just literally on the phone. But like, Razum, like, this is, if you look at the roster that the Rockets have and their limitations, this style of play is literally all they have, right? This is how they win these games. They have to muck up. They can't fucking, they can't play in the half court. If you, they have to run and they have to beat the shit out of the Warriors. That's how they win games. They don't have like a, like, they have a great defense and they don't have a.

This is who they are. This is how they're going to win. Yes, you have to be physical. You have to turn people over and get out in transition. And like I said at the beginning, when they won, when they lost game one, you know, there's a world in which like they're sitting there. Yeah, disappointed we lost. But, but really everyone's shaking hands saying, good job, guys.

We didn't win, but good shit. Good shit. This is going to take a toll. Good shit. Keep plugging. Keep banging and keep chopping. It's going to be fine. And that's where they got to keep the games.

and fucking raps that I saw in Houston yesterday or two days ago was astounding. Like, Howard, we said this pre-playoffs. Like, whoever gets through this series, whoever plays Houston, they can beat Houston, but they're going to get their ass kicked. Like, that's just the reality of the situation. Like, they're going to be, that whoever plays Houston

in the next round, they're going to feel it, and it's going to affect them in the next round if they get through. And it's not even a guarantee if they get through. It's a 1-1 series. Now, the Rockets are really physical. They're old school. It's what makes them who they are. It's why they've succeeded this season.

It's not changing anytime soon. No, it hasn't been over the line. We talked about it earlier. I think a lot of this is just stemming from the Amman Thompson, Jimmy Butler thing, which we've all agreed was just shit that happened. I don't think there's anything over the line. I love what the Rockets do. I love what EMA has done with that team.

And no, I do not envy whoever they're facing. You know what I like, though? They got some swag to O'Don Rockins. I talked to Dylan Brooks the other day, and he said, he called the, oh, Howard's got a roll. He has a call. He has a call with, you know, important people. It's usually Roger that wraps this shit up, but just me.

Anyway. Way to go, Howard. I got to get out of here, too, bro. He called the Warriors a stepping stone, which was so gangster. He said, yeah, they're a stepping stone. They're a good team, but they're a stepping stone to where we want to go. I'm like, damn, bro, somewhat swag, respect. And so Howard is gone.

Rod's still here, but that has been another edition of Real Ones. Just fucking look. Keep that in. Keep that shit in. Raj's ain't even bolded up to do that yet. But we will see you guys on Tuesday, be in Ron. Talk to y'all soon. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com, baby.

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