The Ringer NBA Show - Kawhi Dominates in Denver. Plus, Cade Was the Man in the Garden. | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Kawhi Leonard put on a show in Denver on Monday night to even up the series against the Denver Nuggets. Logan and Raja open up the pod by discussing the greatness that was displayed (1:39). What adjustments can the Nuggets make to get out of the first round? The Pistons took Game 2 in Madison Square Garden thanks to Cade Cunningham, who poured in 33 points and got 12 rebounds. After very close matchups at home, how concerned should Knicks fans be before their road games against Detroit (22:36)? The Lakers lost the series opener to the Timberwolves on Saturday, which essentially puts them in a must-win Game 2 situation. What should their approach be to even up the series (45:33)? Should LeBron defer less to Luka and just attack? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer/Audio: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Social: Keith Fujimoto Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-dash-help.com. It's popping real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there. Wow. First episode of the playoffs,

Roger already wanted to pre-pod talk. He want to get to the shits. Let's get to the shits, man. We're going to talk about the playoffs from last night. We're going to talk about getting a little preview. Oh, wow, wow, wah, wah. Don't put that in there because that was hell of that was. Leave it in. Leave it in. That was just showing my delirium, bro. I'm fucking tired.

You gotta get the people right now. A little ah, ah, ooh, out, bing, bop, bam. Type of shit I'm on, you wouldn't understand. Oh, anyways. Nice. That's too much. Okay. Speaking of L.A., let's go to the clippers. You want to give them, you want to give them what, you know, just enough, not too much, right?

Okay. Well, then, you know, you can play producer post pod, and then you can tell them what to killed in and it was a little too much so we can just keep a balance. Does that work? No. No, I got shit to do. Let's go. Keep it moving. All right.

Let's talk about, fuck all the bullshit. Let's talk about Kauai Leonard last night, 39 points on, I believe, like 12 of 19 shooting. It was the best player on the floor, played amazing defense, got the right steal on, on Yokins down the stretch, hit big shots. Can you put into perspective how crazy of a game that is, basketball player. We saw it as a fan, but can you really put this in the perspective of how special this performance was? Like, it was an incredible shooting performance. Let's just start there. I mean, some of the shots, prime kawai, healthy kawai, vintage kawai is, it's a fascinating watch, man, because some of the shots look so unorthodox and so difficult, but he routinely makes

them. It's pretty crazy to watch. I mean, the leaner, I don't know if that was at the end of the half. I forget the quarters because I watch like the little leaner where he's got somebody on his right side. It's a three and he's got somebody closing from his left and he just kind of leans through the two of them and shoots like a leaning three. That was a crazy shot. Right after the dunk missed in the fourth quarter that, you know, that big body in the paint where he's got Gordon. And Gordon did a really good job on him and then he gets to that right shoulder and the ball is so high like that ball is way extended above his head and he's just like flicking his wrist that's like Bob McAdoo type shit like those are tough tough shot so the shooting performance in and of itself was incredible um you know the way

they do it which is which is yeah he has his time to be on the ball but it's a real split between him having it James Harden having it it's really an efficient it's an efficient uh uh 13 or whatever he had, not just in terms of field goal percentage, I would argue, but in terms of like touch time, it was pretty remarkable. It was an incredible, it was an incredible watch, an incredible individual performance. Team wise, I mean, they just, they do a great job of keeping you in their wheelhouse in terms of pace. They keep you right where they want you. You know, a lot of that is based on the fact that they have these two incredible kind of ISO guys that they can play in pick and roll

and have individual gifts so that it naturally is going to slow the ball game down. But they just do a great job of controlling the tempo and keeping you in their wheelhouse. And last night I thought it was interesting. You know, the coverage that I saw Denver, that I saw Denver in a lot was like it was almost like a soft double. You know, this was even without a pick and roll.

This was just like someone would be at the top of the key and they'd just start, the next closest defender would just start creeping, creeping, creeping, creeping, and now he's like in a double team. And the Clippers did an excellent job when that happened, you know, anywhere from slot to slot, which is like basically lane line extended on either side of the court. So that's like in the middle of the court. They did a great job of short rolling Zubotch. And Zubats was making great plays.

So they'd hit him and then he'd make fantastic plays. Like that's a luxury in and of his. itself to have a big that can kind of make plays like that. But poor man's yokic, if you will, right? Like you're just catching it. And now we've got advantage numbers. And so we're playing there. And then when it was on the weak side of the court and they couldn't get that short

role, their weak side players didn't stand on the weak side. They flashed whether that was to the basket or to the middle of the paint. And they just made Denver pay for the coverage they tried to play them in all night long. It was a master class. Well, it's funny because as you're watching, this Riverside has a feature where I can go to another tab and just watch highlights while you talk. So it was very, it was very, it was beautiful listening to you talk and just go through the game. And I'm watching the highlights right now. It was like when I listen to rap music, like when I listen to Onyx while I'm watching, Janus, I did a cumbo.

This was a little bit more. Sure. This was a little bit more. It was more beautiful. This was just listening to just, you just talk through the game. But one of the things that I continue to see is when you talk about the double teams and how they're trying to guard Kauai, you're kind of in a catch-22, right? When you're playing against a player that is so good offensively in the way that he is, it's hard to double-team because he, because I'm looking at this with Steph. I'm in Houston right now, but like when you double-team a guy, you're putting your own defense at a disadvantage, but also when you put him one-on-one, you can't do anything there because he's going to beat your one-on-one defender.

but then when you put extra attention onto him, when you have a smart player like Hawaii, Jesus, this fucking buzzer-beater was ridiculous. That was absurd. Bro, fucking ridiculous. I'm sorry, they're still going. It's so hard to do that. You put, because I think the Clippers have trouble doing that as well,

bringing the double team to Yokic. But when you have a guy like Kauai who is so smart with the basketball, it's really hard because they're trying to double-teep him, not only when he comes off of the catch over the half court line. They're doing it in the post, right? They're trying to double him when he's on the wing. They have nothing for him when they're trying to get. And with any defense that they're trying to get to it, it's ridiculous.

It's crazy. And he's playing an OG game. It's not like he's playing a game where you are, you know what he's going to do. Me and you have talked about this on plenty of podcasts, where the great ones, it doesn't matter what they do and how predictable they can be. You have nothing for it. And I felt like game two was a manifestation of that for Kauai.

Yeah, I mean, that's certainly, you know, when you're shooting that level of field goal percentage against the defense that they were throwing at him. Yeah, I think that would fall into the category of, you know, you could do whatever you want to do defensively, but good offense is going to be good defense all the time, right? And so, but I would, I would just to add on to what you're saying and what I was trying to say is like they were just doing that to Kauai. They were doing that to James Hardin too. So like you were finding yourself most of the game in a two on one defensively up top, leaving a four on three offensively behind that. And so I don't begrudge you like trying that as a strategy. And I guess you could say, hey, you know, this is the tough thing. In the course of a game, as it's unfolding, we weren't talking about any real extended leads for either team here.

This was a ball game. So as a coach, you might sit there and watch the strategy and say, look, we've got them right where we want them. It was always going to be this kind of game. I don't think it's bad. What's the alternative? And you're right. I don't have the answer to that. I'm sitting here playing Tuesday morning quarterback.

But it just provided so many opportunities for other players. Yeah. And I've referenced this a lot. When the Spurs beat us, was that 07 maybe and 08? No, yeah, 07 and 08, their strategy was to allow Steve or Amari to beat us. In a lot of cases, it would be Amari, and he could get all the shots he wants. And it would feel good because he'd have 40 some points a game. But no one else could help him because they would stay home everywhere else,

and you couldn't get the 15 from three different guys that was going to put. you, you know, over the top mathematically, right? When we played, um, you know, Dallas, they usually wanted to try to make Steve beat you. So Steve would wind up with incredible numbers scoring the ball because of their coverage, but they would do their best to keep all of the rest of us kind of like, uh, you know, just out of the game. They would just put a blanket over us, right? Um, we, we employed the strategy against Kobe from time to time. You know, and any strategy you employee against the best players in the world can't be done all night long. You've got to use it timely, right? But like from time to time, we double Kobe. And other times, they would just leave me

out there on Kobe knowing I was going to get cooked. Like I was going to do my best job, but I was going to get cooked. Like 20 years later, I'd have to see myself on on Instagram and Twitter all the time. So why they do that? Hold on. I'm sorry. I understand this is just what we live in. But hold on. Let me finish the point. Let me finish the point. Let me finish some. point though. It was going to be a lonely night for me. He was going to have some incredible tough, tough buckets. If you're being honest, those are tough fucking buckets he's hitting. But the fact is everybody else is taken out of that game in a way that gives us the better chance to win. Whether we do or not, you know, sometimes we did, sometimes we didn't. But that was the strategy.

Hey, just let him cook. Let him cook individually one-on-one. And we won't let the three players score 20 that will supplement his point production. I want to answer that And I also want to just say I don't care that they have the compilation of Roger getting cooked Just stop tagging me in the shit I wasn't there

I didn't do shit Stop tagging you in the Utah shit Look at your men Look at your man's I've seen it for the last five years I get it I fucking get it All right He was really good

Like he was good Jesus Christ Like people like Like Anyway hold on I just wanted He was fucking good He's fucking Kobe Bryant

Stop tag. I'm just saying, stop tagging me. That's, that's you and Rodgers' business. Stop tagging. Here's the other thing, Logan. I had a point on that. I had a point on that. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

I had a question for you, found the point on that. You're talking about role players, right? And one thing that I continue to see, more so with the Clippers, because I've just not, Nugget supporting cast just hasn't been there throughout the series.

But what does it like for, specifically the Clippers supporting cast, When they're seeing guys, their star players make shots within the flow of the offense. They're not forcing shots or not doing these things. They are finding their groove. What does that do for the role players, the Chris Duns, the Norm Pals. Norm Pouser is a superstar role player, but a role player nonetheless, what does it do for their confidence, specifically on the road in a place like Denver where you're seeing your lead dog score? not because the defense is necessarily letting them,

but because he's getting his own within the flow of the offense. Does that help everyone else out when you see a guy like Kauai say, no, get on my back, I got you? Oh, well, yeah, I've talked about that before. Anytime you come into a hostile environment and you see your guy locked in the way Kauai was locked in last night, it is going to put a battery in everybody's back. Like, people are going to be, that is a comforting feeling when you see that.

I would argue, though, that Norman Powell was like, like, you know, Norman Powell was struggling through most of last night. And because of Denver's coverage, he was able to get like, you know, late in the game. He's just flashing from the weak side to the middle of the paint, catching it and hitting eight foot floaters. Look, I mean, those are still tough fucking shots. I'm not telling you I'd make them. but you're gifting a player of his caliber wide open shots. Like he's not having to work for those. All he's having to do is make a read cut into space and then finish with the floater,

which again, kudos to him for doing it. But like when you are in that coverage, you're making it easier on the role players. You're making my job easier if you double Steve and Amari and that ball finds its way out of the double because I'm going to get an open shot. me or Leandro Barbosa are going to get an open shot without having to work. It's just going to be there. And so that's kind of what I'm saying, right?

Like, sure. Seeing Kawhi do it makes your job exponentially easier. But if you're going to send a soft, not even an aggressive double, like you're not even like smashing the ball, making the pass out of it hard. They're throwing bullshit little passes right behind your soft double. And they're playing four on three. Like that's a recipe for role players to eat if they can play. The nuggets, I feel like this series has been weird for the nuggets.

right? Because I had this on the on the G-Cal or on the docs talking about game one, right? And I was ready to talk about, you know, Russell Westbrook, vindication game. We're back, baby. We're ready to go. I was ready to rile you up for a rant. But honestly, he played good last night, too. You got your tea?

You have your tea for the haters? He played good last night, too, I'm just saying. Yeah. I mean, it was, we played good last night. He was a bit of a roller coaster in game one. you would agree with that. It was just, it was a lot of, a lot of emotions from, from Russ, Russ evoked. It's fair. Um, but, but the, the, the clippers have been the better team

throughout, uh, this series. And what does that go, what does that do for your psyche if you're Denver going back to Los Angeles where the clippers have been, obviously the, what they have been, uh, down the stretch of the season, um, what they have been with Kauai after the Kauai performance. What position are the nuggets in at this particular moment? Don't keep that in, Cliff. Keep the don't keep that in, but don't keep, fuck, I'm just fucking up right now. But what, what position are the nuggets in going back into Los Angeles at this particular moment? Let's just start. Anytime you lose one on your home floor, you're, you're, as, you're, you're, you're, you're in a precarious situation because, you know, you've, you've let that advantage go, right? So,

I would agree with you with my eyes that I think the Clippers have been the better team. I think they fumbled a bag to some degree in game one. And then got out of there with one last night. But I don't know if you're Denver, you necessarily feel like that. I'm looking, it's relatively even. The stat that's dictating these games is turnovers. Right. It's what's dictating the games.

The Clippers had 20 in game one. They couldn't hold on. Right. Last night, Denver had 20. Yokic almost quadruple doubled if you include turnovers because he had seven of those and bad timely turnovers. And it was just enough for Kauai and company to get over the hump and beat you. So I could in Denver's camp, wrap my mind around, hey man, look, Kauai played phenomenally

at 39. We got a good effort from everybody else. And minus like a weird misdunk at a very inopportune time and a couple awful turnovers down the stretch. We pull that out. We're up 2-0. So it's just, you know, the mind, the mind game that is like playoff basketball and how your, how your psyche kind of rides the roller coaster from, from when to loss, the ebb and the flow that is the series is, is really, really interesting. So I tend to agree with you. I think the clippers have looked better. I think the clippers have, they have more weapons. Like you talk about Kauai,

talking about James Hardin, talk about, you know, Ivats, Zub, Bob's Norman Powell. I think there are more things that you go to there. But I don't think it's been a huge, a huge difference in the series. I think the turnovers have swung both of those games. I think when I see the nuggets at this point, I'm just, it's, it's tough to watch them play around Yokic and this supporting cast and believe that they can close this one out. And it's been everything that this series has been everything that we thought it was going to be. But it's, It's just really hard in the battle of supporting cast. I mean, Michael Porter Jr. might be out in the next couple. Did you see the Michael Porter Jr. play? Yeah, I did see that. He fell. He turned it over, fell, got up.

I didn't see what happened to what. He's giving some smoke. Cliff, come on here real quick and discuss this smoke that he has been getting right now. I want to hear God's opinion on this. What's the smoke that Michael Porter, what's the timeline that Michael Porter, Jr. is getting? And I want to see it from Roger if it's warranted. So the smoke that Michael Porter Jr.'s getting is that there was a play

late in the fourth quarter. I don't remember the exact score. But he dove for, so I think he got a rebound, an important rebound, dove for the ball, turn the ball over when he was trying to make a past on a fast break. The ball turns over to the Clippers.

He stays on the ground because he got landed on, like his shoulder got landed on. And it looked like pretty bad for like a second, but he got up and like got back into the play, but the Clippers ended up scoring. And I think they ended up either taking a lead or getting like a three-point lead and like a very, very crucial moment.

Yeah, yeah. It's a very, very crucial moment. And then the smokey's getting is that, damn, like, bro, you could have got up. Like, you did all that, like, trying to fake for a call. You know, you was on the ground. Listen, I'm never one to criticize a player for getting hurt during the game. So I don't know how most people viewed that, but it looked kind of crazy when you look when you just rewatch it. Well, I mean, in fairness, I haven't rewatched it.

I did see the play. It was one of those turnovers I was talking about. I thought he was kind of hustling. Like, again, I haven't rewatched it. So I thought it was like at least initially a genuine hustle. I would just say if you're a Clipper fan, I mean, not a Clipper fan. I'm sorry, a Nugget fan. If you are supportive of what Nicola Yolkich does in terms of flopping around the court,

don't say shit to anybody else about diving on the ground. Don't do that. It's a terrible fucking look. All right? I don't know. I'd have to rewatch it again. I am all for, you know, even my kids at the youth level. Get up. Like, get up. I hate, like, pet peeve of mine is like, you're going to lie there in writh in pain for two to three minutes, calls the game to stop. Everybody's got to come out there and you sit out for one play and now you're back in the game. Get your ass up. But I didn't see it.

And I don't know, you know, I don't know what his injury was. I said he was doing the pack of y'all plank, but I don't think it was that bad. I don't think. It was that bad. I mean, they still did a pack of y'all point. They even put Rushbrook back in the game, and he was having a good few couple of minutes, too. But they sucked them out because, yeah. I actually thought he hustled for that. I vaguely, I mean, I don't have, like, total recall, but I vaguely remember the play.

Like, he was hustling. It was around half court or something, right? Like, and it was like a. Yeah. Yeah. And so I thought he actually made a play. I think it was a dive, whether he's hurt or not. I don't know.

Yeah. We'll see what happens. Let's change gears. Here to these. No, let me just say. this. I want to add on them, put a bow on this one. The nuggets have to, well, I talked about the clips keeping you in their wheelhouse tempo related. The nuggets have to get it into the 16s, 120s, 120, like, that's their wheelhouse in terms of pace. Like, you're talking about

one of the highest scoring point per game team in the league and another team that wants to, like, slow and grind you down and work, work you out in the half court. And this series is going to live in who can control the tempo and who can get out and go. And, you know, the nuggets among to other things, like we talked about their defensive strategy and stuff like that. Look, I'll leave that up to the people who make the big bucks. But I know this. You need to pick the pace up in a way that is more in your wheelhouse as a team for the course of this season than what's currently been shown in the first two games. Kudos to the Clippers, but you've got to find a way to get up out of that.

Yeah. I mean, and all that saying said, they're going back one-one. It could be much worse based on the way they played. Yeah. Real Ones is brought to you by Fandual. The NBA playoffs are finally here. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with Fandul and their same game parley profit boost.

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But first, we are going to talk about the apology that Raja is owed to Cliff, presented by Amazon. Cliff. Cliff, I don't mix words. I'm sorry. Oh, shit. I think that my affinity for friend of the show, Ben Stiller, and how hot you came in at him in regards to your series prediction, had me a little offended for him. I got a little, I got a little like, you know what I mean? Like that was a month ago. Yeah, we're not friends. Like, I mean, but like I feel like I'm Ben's friend. And the way the way you came at him, I felt like I had to have his back. Having said that, having said that Detroit should be up to O right now. and and I could see what you were saying. Like it was not, I called it.

I think I said it would don't make a mockery out of this. And I apologize for that because you were hitting the nail more squarely on the head than I was. You, my man, all I got to say is two words. Detroit basketball, bro. You got your, you got your buffs on? I got your buffs on. I got my buffs in the room, bro. I'm at my Cartier frames too.

I got the baggy jeans from back. from back in the day, my puffer jacket, you know what I'm saying? I'm going to go to 10 mile. We got the headband on. You got your headband on? Maybe, yeah, maybe, you know what I mean? Might go to 8, 8 mile, 9 mile, 10 mile, whatever mile we're going to. You know what I'm saying?

Shout to Detroit, man. Detroit player. Yeah, I got to check in with Trick Trick, next time I go up there, man. You got to tap it with Trick Trick. If you're going to be wearing all that shit, you got to tap it for sure. Off the plane. You might be able to get away with... Right off the plane.

You might be able to get away with on the drive from Detroit. Detroit Airport to Detroit proper because the fucking drive is so long, but check in. Anyway, check in for sure. This is, I think this series has been all about the word poise, Raja, because, I mean, this has just been a story of poise and lack thereof because if the, if the, the, the, the pistons have poise in the first, in game one, they win that in a landslide. Then you saw Cade, who is just, which I love seeing a player mature. or in front of your eyes.

It's just a beautiful thing to see. You see the dunk, the pistons. Where do you see them right now? Are they where they should be in this series relative to how they've played? Or could it have gone another way? I mean, another one of these series, right? They're all going to kind of be the same.

I think if you're on either side, you would have a, the picture that you paint for your locker room and your organization is going to be just the opposite of the other one, right? Yeah, Detroit could easily be up to, oh, that's why I apologize to Cliff. Like, I could see a,

a world. I didn't see that world coming in where you were down 2-0 if you were the Knicks going to Detroit and that chaos that that building's going to be. I just didn't see that. That's why I lightweight kind of joke like don't make a mockery of it. But it very easily could be that. If you're the Knicks, you're saying to yourself like last night, we were right there. Like we, you know, they were a young team, the areas that we thought that they might struggle in, which was closing out and the experience that's lacking in those areas in the playoffs, particularly, showed their head in game one, and we were able to do what we were supposed to do.

And then in game two, we just kind of fumbled the bag because it was there for us to have it. And so, like, you could really construct an argument on either side of that. What I see from Detroit is just a team that's, like, an attack mode. Like, they're in attack mode. They are getting downhill that was reflected in the calls last night in the free throw discrepancy. I know Knicks fans would probably want, you know, some of the calls that Brunson didn't get.

I would argue he's out there kind of flopping around a lot too. Don't get me wrong. Like, look, I can appreciate it. I did it as well as a defender. But it's very hard for a ref to determine when that's genuine and when it's not, right? So it puts the ref in a tough spot sometimes. But because Detroit was at the rim, I mean at the rim, not middies, you know, not post-fades, even though they were doing all of that.

were also aggressively seeking the rim. And you typically get rewarded for that. Very physical game. Detroit is here for all the shits. Like, they're here for that. They are, the amount of bodies that were flying around the floor last night, if you watched it,

with mixed players getting up, looking at the rest, like, yo, what the fuck? Like, that suggests that the Detroit Pistons are there to physically compete, right? Cape Cunningham is a problem. I mean, he's been all year. He's just a problem.

Like when you kid him out in space and let him create, he is in the top percentile of people in the league with the ball in his hands getting a bucket. Tobias Harris has been a problem for them on the switch. You know, they're really taking advantage of that in a way that that provides a nice supplementation to what Cade can do. like it just gives you enough. And then generally speaking, if you'll allow me to go to the Knicks,

like if you're stars, and we talked about this, in the playoffs I penciled stars in. I pencil them in for what they do. Then it becomes, do I get to support? Well, if you're going to tell me

you got a night where cat shoots 11 shots, you know, he can't figure out, or the Knicks can't figure out how to get him into positions because Detroit did a masterful job of coming at him from different, you know,

coming at him with doubles from different places. Like they had the Knicks confused. And so Brunson did his thing, but I didn't get anything from Kat and nobody else really went off. We got a problem. That's the thing with the, that's the thing with Kat, right, where he can disappear in that way, right? And that's one of those things that sometimes you saw in Minnesota, whether it be him getting into foul trouble, whether it him being just, maybe just being too much of a number two in that way where he's just kind of like giving, okay Anthony Edwards go cook and there'll be times where you need him to get his own shot and I think

that that's one of the things that I was concerned when the trade went down not to say that the Knicks didn't win the trade not to say that he hasn't been fantastic in New York but when you are going to be a true bona fide number two you got to be a fucking number two right you have to do that specifically on this type of team and I feel like Kat and his later years in Minnesota is probably, I wouldn't say devolved, but he's kind of turned into maybe a really, really good three, maybe a really, really good role player where I think that much more is needed from him in a winning way in this type of context. And I think that that's something that I really want to see more from him is be that bona fide number two. You know how to do it because you've been

a number one before. Maybe albeit the team wasn't great when you were number one, but you know the responsibilities at hand right now. And I think that's something that I really want to see from Kat, especially when Brunson, when Brunson is, can only do so much in a playoff context, right? Because he is a guy that is not to say he doesn't score a lot, but dude needs help. And I think Kat needs to step up his game because of that. And that's something that's concerning for me because he does ebb and flow in a postseason setting. That's fair.

yeah, the jury's out on whether he can consistently be that dude, I would guess. This is simple math, though, for me. Like, Jalen Brunson plays great. Kate Cunningham plays great. They're both over 30, right? The rest of your team, like if you have a secondary star, that is your advantage, right? Because theoretically, like New York has the better second star, right? Kat.

Yep. So if he's not doing that and we're saying Detroit's other four plays the same as your other four, This is simple math. Then it comes down to the benches. And the Knicks bench gave you eight. One of those was a fluky bank shot. And the Detroit Pistons, led by Dennis Schroeder's 20, gave you 35. Yeah.

That's math, dude. Like, that's not any proprietary, like, solution that I came up with for basketball. It's fucking math. If your number two's not doing his job and you got two number ones doing their job, the other four of the starters are going to relatively cancel each other out because my theoretically number two who's better than yours doesn't give me that production then my bench better be good and they haven't they weren't good last night one of the things that i'm one of the things because of that i am really concerned about though is going back to detroit though

raja where Detroit hasn't had they haven't had a postseason game in what 17 years right which is crazy to think of us is oh wait they're going to be rocking and rolling and they're going to be a six man and probably carry that team to at least one of the blowout wins I would expect in either games three and four. That being said with the nix of what I just, we're just talking about, how do you navigate an environment like that where it's going to be nuts? It's going to be on a different level.

You have to split one of those games. It seems like a very tall task. Well, it's going to be a very daunting task for them. That Detroit, I mean, you know, It's been a decade plus since I've been in Detroit, but always a very passionate, like,

rowdy fan base. Like, you know, I don't know that they're Philly in terms of like how they get after you because that's pretty unique, but they're close. Like, they get after you. So that building is going to be crazy. The level of play is going to be incredible. I would imagine that it just seems like they want this series to be a physical series. So I think it's going to continue in that, in that kind of tone.

You just have to be ready. If you're the Knicks, ideally, you come out and you punch them in the mouth early. That's best case scenario, Logan. We come out, we hit you. We're up 14 to 5. And we're keeping this cushion that never really allows like that, that fan base to get going in a way that is detrimental. to us as a team, right? Like, we're just, we're on top of you, smothering you. Every time you make a little run, we're just going to push it back to a comfortable lead, right? Like, those are the ones that

really hurt the fans. You know, that's the one that sucks the air out of the building. You know, we get on top of you early and we just keep the distance. Like, we never let you get it to three. We're always keeping it around six, seven, eight. Like, those are just like a wet blanket on the flame of a crowd. But we can never get going. Every time we want to get going, we can't get going and eventually they'll tap out. But like you, that's what you have to do if you're the Knicks. I would imagine that what is going to happen is the Pistons come out and punch the Nix in the mouth.

And that's their job. But so then if you're the Nix, you got to be in bunker mentality, man. They're shelling us right now. We got to get low, cover up, protect. And then, you know, once they got to reload, you know, we got to come out and hit them with our arsenal. And it's just, you know, that's the mindset, right? Like, hopefully we come out and do our job.

If we don't, let's weather that storm and let's be ready to counterpunch. Yeah, it's tough on that. It's tough when you're going back to a team or going back to a city with the energy that Detroit is going to have. Counterpoint, though. And I saw this, I'm in Houston right now, and I saw this with the Rockets where you do get that first punch and you don't land anymore afterwards, right? And you don't land anymore afterwards until it's too late. Just because the difference in, we go back to poise, just in the difference in experience level.

Now, I'm not saying necessarily for the Knicks, because I feel like while the Knicks have had postseason experience, they haven't had dominant postseason experience where they know each other enough to be able to get into certain sets when everything is a mind fuck in an arena. I don't believe that. I'm just saying in playing devil's advocate, sponsored by Roger Bell and Amazon, that it could go another way. You know, that would be the way that the, if the Knicks just weather the first five minutes, and maybe it's only, instead of being 23 to 5, maybe it's 13 to five, right? And they can just get back in their back, slow it down, take the crowd out of the game. Which is going to be a hard thing to do in Detroit because they're going to be, it's going to be

popping. You're going to be seeing Asaba baby. You're going to be seeing, um, well, everybody going to see a big Sean front row. It's going to be a movie. But Cliff came back on. Did I say something? Sada baby, baby face Ray. You know what I mean?

It's not a drill. Come on, man. It's not a drill. Shout out to the homies. Trick, trick is probably going to get some tickets, but it's going to be popping up there, right? I don't know any of them.

Okay. Actually, trust me. Your son knows all them. You definitely don't know these for sure. And they all sound the same to you. Literally. Shout out Peezy. But it's going to be popping, so we'll see. It is, it is.

And, you know, I would argue, though, that I think New York, because even last night, they were in a tough spot. Like, Detroit was handling that. And the Knicks really scrapped and clawed and got back and tied that game up. Like, and Detroit shows, again, their inexperience and overall immaturity. mean that in terms of like a negative they're just not mature in these situations yet and so that showed again last night so i do think that new york can go into a building you know even the playoff series they've been in last year and stuff like that there's some battles there's some there's some

gut them out we found a way to win these games when the deck was stacked against this type of moments with with this next kind of core roster and so i think that they'll be okay in a in a hostile environment figuring out how to play through um an early hiccup i think they could be okay there, but they have to figure out Tibbs or whoever does their offense, like I don't know the internal structure of that organization, who does what, but you have to move cat.

Like they're making it, all right, bear with me. When I want to double team you as a defensive team, and I want to double team your best player, I need the space and time to do that, meaning the further

you are away from the basket, the easier it is for me to get out there you know, and double team you, right? Now, that does make the pass and the floor behind us more spread out and more open, so it makes more room for my three guys to have to guard. But I can get there and stop the primary guy from scoring. I can make him pass the ball. If you're the offense and you're saying, all right, look, but I need this guy to score,

I can't have him just passing out because I don't have the weaponry behind him. I need him to score. Then you can't have him out on the perimeter. It's a dead play. Even if he gets in his bag and he can beat his man, they are so committed to closing those lanes down on cat, that's dead. So don't have him out there, right? Unless you're running some really good shit

where he's ghosting, pick and rolls and it's slipping into his threes. Like, don't give him the ball out there and think that that's where he's going to work on his ice, right? And, you know, I would move him around. I'd get him on the elbow a little bit. I'd get him in the middle, like on the nail, middle of the free throw line where they used to work Paul Pierce all the time. That's a really hard place for doubles to come from. We don't know what side it's coming from.

A lot of times double teams are predicated on like where you are on the floor and where that double is going to come from. Is it coming from low? Is it coming from high? Is it coming from weak side? Right. But when you put the ball right in the middle of the floor, well, everybody's weak side now. Like where is it coming from?

Like that's a good place to get a guy that wants to ice the ball. Get him there a little bit. This is going to fall to the coaching staff. Let him touch it there a little bit. The Clippers game last night. I think this flew under the radar for a lot of people. We talked about how dedicated Denver was to doubling, right? Not unlike Detroit was with the Knicks,

but coming out of a late timeout, and T. Lose as good as anyone with this, they run some action and they get Kauai on the right elbow, right? He's on the right elbow, and he's got James Hardin in that right corner. So Brown cannot help on that. Now, the double can come from the middle, which it did. But Kauai just took one, two dribbles to his right and raised up and knocked it down

because you anchored that defender to the corner by putting a shooter there. So again, you get Brunson in that right corner, you get cat on that right elbow. You know the doubles got to come from his left. It cannot come from Brunson. Let him work to his right hand. You're creating opportunities that make the double a lot harder for them to execute. as a defense if they're Detroit, but you got to help him out.

So on the flip side, how does Detroit now attack Cat defensively when they're going back? What are you trying to see on the other side of that matchup? Well, I mean, I'm of the camp that I'm going to keep doing it until you prove that it doesn't work. So if I'm Detroit, I'm executing the exact same game plan I executed last night.

Like we're going to, we're going to, they came from, again, I just told you like typically, you know, an NBA team would be like, hey, we're doubling from the nail or we're coming from low weak side. Like doubling from the nail means balls on the right side of the court. Whatever defender is closest to midline on the court around the free throw line, that guy's going to come down and double, right? So when that ball gets sprayed back to the top, the closest guy on the weak side rotates up. The second guy out of the corner is going to rotate up to the wing. and then one of those two defenders, probably the most athletic that we're on the double,

is going to sprint out to the corner, like we're in a rotation. In the NBA now, you see sometimes that guy on the midpost on the right-hand side. If he gets deep, they'll send, if they don't think the corner player is very good, they'll send the low guy from the weak side to go get him, and they'll rotate backwards, in essence, of what I just said. So, like, there are different ways to do it. You typically see kind of like a steady diet of something throughout the course of a game. I thought Detroit did a good job of coming from different places.

Like one time they were coming from the top, the next time they came from the bottom, Kat couldn't really figure out what was happening. But that's why you got to help him as a coach. Yeah. We'll see what happens, man. Hold on, Roger. The last second three-pointer,

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Let's play a little game of how concerned are you? I'm going to give you a few scenarios and I want you to give your concern level. This is just a, I'm just trolling at this point. But the Grizzlies going into game, too, against the 3rd. thunder. What are your concern levels as a grizzlies fan? And so they just, do this just be a, do they just go home? Are we going to, do they even just play any more basketball after the game one? What is your concern level? That was, if you're a grizzlies fan. That was embarrassing. That was embarrassing. That was embarrassing. Like, really embarrassing.

My concern level is, is at a 10. I fully expect them to come out and compete. Like, I don't, I don't think this is a laid out. John Morant said that it was, that would never happen again and I don't believe him. I believe him. When does that ever happen? I mean, that's a top five all-time loss in playoff history. Like,

it'd be hard to replicate that. Maybe they lose by 15 in game two. Yeah, but I could see them getting hand to league B. Don't get me wrong, Logan, I agree with you. Like, I don't know that they just get rolled over like they did. I was walking through,

you know, I was in the gym with my son in Atlanta this weekend. And I happened to get back for, like, I was walking through. No, where was I? Oh, I was in the airport. I was walking through the airport. And I stopped at a bar on my way to the gate to take a look.

And I looked at that and I, you know, I now have to wear readers to like read. But I'm good at distances, right? Like, I looked at that TV at a distance and I, and it kind of fucked me up because I was like, man, I got to put my glasses on. That shit can't be right. I'm like, oh, no, you, oh, you saw that right. Wait, Roger, are you at, are you with the readers, are you like all the way up? Or are you at the complete wash level where they're at the. bottom no. They're not at the bottom of your nose yet? No, this is much clearer for me. But I will hit you

with like, I will hit you with like, you know, there's somebody's talking to me. I'll be over the top of for sure. But they're not on my nose. Yeah, be very concerned if you're in Memphis Grizzlies, though. That's, that's ugly. You're going to get, you're going to get beat pretty handily. You just, like, I'd like to see you compete. What sucks, because, I mean, if they were going to put out this performance, they could have just not gone to the playoffs all together and kept their first round pick that is now going to the Washington Wizards. Damn, crazy. Bucks Pacers.

Damian Lillard, I think he's questionable going into game two, but like a good questionable. It seems like he's on the path to coming back. The Bucks supporting cast in game one was, if you were Milwaukee Bucks, what is your concern level going into game two? Yeah, probably an eight. I'm really concerned. Maybe seven, you know, like,

I think you could argue getting Dane back, you know, is going to alleviate some of that, but I'd also tell you, you know, could be a little hiccup in his first game back. Like, I don't know, probably, yeah, probably a seven. I don't know. I don't have a great feel on that one. Yeah, it's pretty, the first, it was,

the way that game flowed was, you know, when a star just tries to put his imprint on a game and it just doesn't work. It just felt like that with Janus, right? Like it felt like the first maybe three or four possessions, he was like, I am going to dominate this game. And then the Pacers was like, all right, bro, relax. Like, catch us. Yeah, he'll be okay. He'll be home soon. Relax. Lakers Timberwolves. one of the more impressive performances, a game one performances in this year's playoffs was the Timberwolves in game one, just a balanced performance. Everything that we axed of Ant and wanted to see of Ant we saw from Ant in game one,

the poise, the patience, and the great play from the supporting cast. If you were the Lakers going into game two, what is your concern level? Yeah, it's at a nine. Only because, you know, when you lose home court advantage in game one, that's a scary spot. Because I'm playing with house money now in game two. And house money and freedom, especially with the kind of personality that Aunt is and that Minnesota can be is a little scary. Like he's one of those dudes that might just catch. Like he played great.

But he didn't hit you with that with that. And I can't like it wasn't that kind of game, right? And so he could have that. And if that happens in game two and you've given up game one, you were in a 02 hole. So I got to be really concerned if I'm the Lakers. You have to win tonight. You have to win tonight. But this was look, again, Logan, Luca played great, scoring the ball.

You know, the assist numbers weren't there, which suggested the role players in the other people, you know, didn't give him much support. And I told you coming into these playoffs that if the others weren't going to support, then you needed Luca to be great. You needed LeBron to be great. And you needed Austin Reeves to be great. LeBron was just okay. Austin Reeves wasn't very good.

You're going to lose that game. You're going to lose that game. Now, if you told me LeBron was okay and Austin Reeve wasn't great and then we got 30 some points or 35 points from the bench, you know, that's different. But you got 13 and the. wolves got 43. The wolves, the wolves were very, the wolves, look, 44, 32 points in the paint, 25 to six fast break points. The wolves were on top of them. The wolves, the wolves did what I was saying the Knicks need to do. Yeah. Which is, allow me to, allow me to bring out one of my,

my sons, because both of them, their teams do this. Walk in your trap, take over your trap. Cliff, Cliff, did you hear this? Did you hear this millennial ass saying from, from Roger? I hear that. I hear that at games all the time when they go to somebody else's field and win, right? That's what they did. That Gin Z, Z, Razz in the fucking building. What was that saying again?

Recipes, Recipes bankroll, man. But y'all like that, Raj. That was nice. Yeah, but not, I mean, like, it's not mine. I had to steal that from my young bucks who obviously. Y and Raj in the building. Bank Z? Bank Z.

Is that it? Is that it? Bank roll fresh, man. Bank roll fresh. Two chains, two chains, yeah. Sorry. But you can dig what I'm saying, though. Like, this shit is mine.

Like, we're going to stamp it from the jump and we're just going to stay on top. And that was the attitude that they had. And so the Lakers are going to have to figure it out. LeBron is going to have to imprint a little bit more. I mean, obviously he's LeBron. I mean, he knows he's done this. Finding the balance between him and Luca and for him, to be effective enough offensively

and have enough of an impact on the game is, and Luca still be Luca is a sweet spot that they have to find. And then, you know, Austin Reeves has been that guy, but let's say he isn't, you're going to need other folks, bro. You need other folks. And generally speaking, they got to contain the ball, Logan.

If you can't guard at the point of attack, you're in trouble, dog. Yeah. One of the things that is kind of been, And it's annoying to watch, but I know it's growing pains. But ever since Lucas got on the floor, there have been games where LeBron has been indecisive on how to enter a game, right? Or how to imprint, put his imprint on a game. Usually, and what you would want to see is him started from the beginning and just mash all fools.

First five minutes, good it. But there's been games where, and you've seen it in the playoffs now where he kind of tries to feel his way into a game. and maybe he'll start 0 for 5. I think he finished like 5 of 13 or something like that. But you want to see him. He was okay. Yeah, but you want in a game like that where you have to have it. No, I agree with you.

He wanted his aggressiveness to be there. I know. I agree with you. I'm sorry of cutting you off. I was just saying he wasn't bad, but I agree with you 100%. Like you, he's got to find the balance. And that's always, that's always been the question for me in, in regards to like what this team was going to ultimately be

was how quickly could those two, I mean, it's not rocket science, how quickly could they figure out that balance of you, me, me, you, we both have done enough. It took LeBron and D. Wade a while to do that. It took Kyrie and LeBron a while to do that. And, you know, we've seen some really good Luca LeBron moments so far, but, you know, unfortunately in the playoffs,

it's not like the regular season where like you could string it together for for two and then it's not there for two, but then it's brilliant. Like, you have to string them together. And so, you know, yeah, that's what he's got to figure out. If I'm him, I'm coming out this game and I'm going to be the aggressive one. You know what I'm saying, Logan? Like, I'm going to start this shit and then and then will, Luca, you play off me a little bit. And then if I need to cede it to you because you get to like smoking hot at some point, I'll do that. But I'm going to go ahead and get myself established. And I want that a little bit. Just because, I mean,

Luca is the number one option on this team and rightfully so, but he also looks up to LeBron, right? And he will defer to LeBron if need be. And he doesn't have a problem doing that, and I think LeBron is one of the rare people that Luca's like, okay, go get yours if you need it. And so I just kind of want to see that a little bit more in game two. Last one, let's go

to Houston where I'm at right now. The Rockets, the Rockets just lost game one. It was a really good old school. I felt like it was in a time machine in 1996 or some shit. It was like 60 to like 69 in the fucking fourth quarter. And I'm like, where am I right now? Um, the Rockets made a furious run after being down double digits, came back, lost because, you know, Jimmy Butler and Steph down the stretch. What's your concern

level if you're the Rockets? Yeah, this is going to come off weird, but, uh, yeah, probably an eight. I mean, if I'm the Rockets, I mean, Probably an eight. I mean, there's a part of me that says a four also. Like, because,

I mean, Steph was great. Jimmy was great. We physically, like, body, like there's a world where I could say,

hey, look, man, this is going to take its toll. Yeah. Like, we didn't win game one,

but it's going to take its toll. Just stay with it. You know what I mean? They just pummel them on the glass, beat the shit out of them everywhere they go. Guys, stick with it.

We're not going to win game. Like, There's a world where I can convince myself that they're there. I have to apologize probably to Golden State. I do this to them all the time. They probably fall victim to this from a lot of people. Does you just forget how good they are defensively? Yeah.

You know what I mean? And, and, you know, so I probably, they're multiple time world champions. You got Jimmy and Steph. You should be really worried if you're Houston. And I think Houston, what we've talked about, Houston, the way we've characterized Houston all year long as a team is basically, you know, what you see. Sangoon is great. If their defensive ability is great, they held them to 95.

Like what? I'm taking that every time. You tell me coming into the game, hey, bro, you don't know the outcome, but the other team has 95 points. Sign me up. Yeah. Sign me up for that. Need more for Stanley Green. You need.

So my point was, San Goon is great. Yes, you do. but what you ultimately need is a guy. Yes. You need a guy to go with that group. A bucket getter, a guy, a creator, a, the dude I talk about in the playoffs all the time. Hey, saddle on my back, homies. We're out of here.

Yep. No, but I, so I think your instinct, though, was right with the Rockets just based on seeing them. There was a sense in the fourth quarter that the Warriors were like, fuck it, we're just going to go all out. because we need this game more than the Rockets need this game. Just because of the legs and how tired they were, the Houston Rockets are the most athletic team in the series. And there are times when the Warriors look a little old, I think, like, especially when they,

they were up, I think, like, 20-something points. And the Rockets just by sheer brute force just got themselves back into the game. I think this game, too, is going to be a, I'm just going to say, I think it's going to be a blowout for the Rockets, I think, just for that simple reason, right? Like, there are times when a veteran team where you just need to go get a game, and that was the game that the Warriors went and got because there was no, if they put their best punch, and that's the funny thing about the postseason where things can shift from a shot, from a possession, from everything to, oh, we're feeling good to, we're not feeling so good. If a lot of those shots don't go in in the fourth quarter, we're having a totally different conversation about this series because of the way that the Rockets have had the Warriors on their toes.

So I think that you're in the right, your instinct was right going into game two of, they just, I think the Warriors escaped game one as much as they want it. Yeah, I kind of feel that. And for all the reasons you said, way more important for them to get it. The longer the series goes, obviously, I think in terms of overall, like, stamina and health and everything it favors Houston.

And I do, I really do believe there's a world where they're like, guys, you know, again, it's like body work in a fight. You know, it's not sexy. We're, you know, we're scoring, we're scoring, but just keep working the body, bro. Like, by the sixth round, he's going to be in trouble. And so you could totally see a scenario in game two where, you know, if it's, if it's reachable, if it's an attainable win for Golden State, they rock all the way through it and try to win it.

Because if you're that close to it, why not go ahead and get it, right? But if it gets a little wonky and a little out of hand, I could see a scenario where your starters play like two thirds of what they normally play. Or like three quarters of what they normally play. Just sit them down and say, fuck it, we got one. Let's bank the rest and then go home and try to hold serve there.

Yeah. And I remember I said, to start the series. It was going to be, no matter what Golden State does or no matter what Houston does, they're going to get, it's going to be just a fucking war.

And you could see the ramifications of that after game one. Like, the warriors were beat up. Like they were, they got their ass kick. Steph in general got his ass whooped. And that's going to be every game, especially with a Udoca-like team.

I think this, I kept going back and forth in game one watching. I was like, oh, this is going to be a short series versus nah, this is going to be in for the long haul. And I'm leaning towards this is going to be here for the long haul. Because while I think that the warriors have more weapons down the stretch, I think that the Houston Rocket strategies should be just to wear them down. Just wear them down, continue to make this a long series, and just see what you can do on the backstretch of this and go from there. So we'll see what happens. Concern level for me is about a five for Houston.

Okay. I mean, the good thing that they have going for them, if you're, like, the worst card you could have drawn if you were the Rockets was the schedule, right? Yeah. Like, do you give them all that at rest? Like, we beat the shit out of them and then you gift them the Wednesday game? Yeah, yeah, it's been great. The time off here in Houston is great. I just want to say, Houston's a lovely city.

I love Houston. Houston's great. Not only am I in Houston, I was in Houston during Easter Sunday. Oh, the pageistry was beautiful. I see, because you know, you don't really see this in California like this anymore, but the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, I'm not going to say older women because I'm not, you know, that, you know, there's a connotation of that, but like, you know, the church ladies had the hats, had the hats popping and you know it's different in the South, right? It was a beautiful display. Um, and it's, I just love Houston, the vibe. I love everything about Houston except for the motherfucking humidity. Jesus. It felt like I have a blanket. it is April 22nd, ladies and gentlemen. It is way too damn early to have all this damn humidity. All right.

I'm gonna fucking. It's just like I put it on a coat. Jesus. That's all I gotta say. But it was been a great trip. Saw Bun B. The other day. That was pretty cool.

All right. Yeah, it's been great. The fans really come out. Like, I don't know how Houston was for you when you played. But like, it's a really good crowd out here. They really like, they really love their teams out here in Houston and Texas. So it's been good, man. I love it out here.

And all that to say, I love the time off. I love just to, you know, really get into the city and see what it's like. Yeah, I feel you. Great town, great sports town. Always had a good time with Houston. Yeah. Yeah. And we always have a good time here on Real On Real Ons.

That's Tuesday vibes. So good. Tuesday vibes. Me and Ra, Ra, we will see you guys on Friday with Howard Mother Effing Beck. be it back at home in the home confines and I won't be out here doing my best Roger impression, just doing it from the hotel, just hoping for the best with the video quality. Dog, it's nuts. It's nuts. You got to just, like, guess. You got a much nicer room than I had by the looks of it. So kudos. Yo, my lighting is popping. Not going to

lie. My lighting is out here popping. I feel really great right now. Skin looks great. We out here vibe. Shout out to all the affiliates. I out to everybody out here. All the shit. We got to see you guys on Friday Before we go Real ones mailbag at gmail.com Real ones mailbag at gmail.com Real ones mailbag at gmail.com We'll be answering your questions

on Friday as we do every time Howard motherfucking Beck is on the program. See you on Friday. All the shits by Raja by Cliff by Victoria. All the shits, bye. Must you 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and older and present in

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