The Ringer NBA Show - Kawhi Leonard (Literally) Limps the Raptors to Another W | The Corner 3

Episode Date: May 22, 2019

Despite Kawhi Leonard’s lingering quadricep injury, his stellar defense and the Toronto Raptors’ overall adjustments prove successful against the Milwaukee Bucks for the second game in a row as they tie the series (1:25). Plus: Rumors say Kevin Durant could sign with the Los Angeles Clippers in the offseason (23:41) while the New Orleans Pelicans navigate the happy dilemma of pairing Anthony Davis and Zion Williamson (31:33). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Do the smart thing and buckle up every trip day or night. Click it or tick it. And now, the Quina 3. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the Quina 3. My name's Kevin O'Connor. I'm joining me here at Ringer Studios in Los Angeles. It's Ringer Associate, Danny Chow.

Oh my God, I can't believe you're back. This is a momentous moment. Happy to have you back, seriously. I'm so happy to be back. Unfortunately, we are a man down today. No Jonathan Charks. He is traveling tonight. But, you know, the Raptors certainly were not short-handed tonight.

And their 120 to 102 victory in game four over the Bucks without Kauai in the game, Danny. Their role player scored 13 straight points in the first quarter and then late in the third quarter into the fourth quarter with no Kauai, no Seacum, no Kyle Lowry. They built a 20-point lead to essentially clinch the game over the bucks and tie the series. two to two. Right. Yeah, this was an incredible performance. I mean, that 13-0 run that we were talking about just a second ago, it started with about one minute left in the first quarter, went on for another two minutes in the second. Once that happened, I was just like, oh, these Raptors are locked in. There's no way that they're going to lose if Kauai is basically being out there like a decoy, whereas like all of their bench players just suddenly caught fire. It was a classic Raptors win.

Like when you think about how the Raptors generally won games over the past few years, it was always like a bench mob approach to kind of getting the ball around, whipping around the floor, and entrusting a lot of faith in the team. Whereas this year it's a lot been more about Kauai. So it was a very, very nice retro win for a team that really needed it. Following the Kauai trade, of course last summer, following the Marker Soul trade during the season,

that loaded bench did become depleted. And we saw that throughout the entire postseason, for the most part, where this is a team that lacked options on the bench. But it was those same guys, Fred Van Vleet, who had a big game scoring 13 points off the bench on five for six shooting, hit that big four point shot. Norman Powell as well had just a tremendous game back-to-back games. He's only six for 18 tonight. But I think overall, the difference with Powell in this series for Nick Nurse to make that change is Powell's not just a guy who's hitting threes off the catch for you. Right. He's also somebody who can create off the dribble,

and I think that is at a new dimension to their offense that they lacked before that has helped that bench unit a lot. Yeah, and I mean, the bench disparity in points is really what tells the story. The Raptors had 48 points on the game from their bench. Bucks had 28. The game was an 18-point game. You know, that 20-point differential

is exactly what did it for the Raptors. And, I mean, look, if you told me before the series that Lowry, Van Vleet, and Powell were going to be on the same court together in major minutes for a decisive game, I'd be like, oh, crap, the rafters are in trouble. But no, they really pulled it out with some outstanding effort on both ends of the floor.

Well, and you mentioned up top, they really needed this with Kauai hurt. During game three, he was reaching down at his knee or quad area. After a huge duck. That right quadricep, which is something that's been a pain for him since 2016, not just last season, where he missed all but nine games. But since 2016, that's been an issue for him,

and it seems to be flaring up. And yet, they're getting the offensive contributions that they needed from their other players in the roster, which they weren't getting before. But Kauai himself still has had a tremendous back-to-back games defending Yannis on the ball. So Nick Nurse making that change, putting Kauai on Yonis,

which they didn't do all season during matchups. They didn't do in the first two games. But starting in game three, Kauai has been the primary defender on Yonis. and Janus looks really hesitant against him, but it's not just Kauai though. The Raptors are helping off of guys like Eric Bledso giving him space to shoot,

which is a theme we've seen throughout the playoffs with average or worst shooters just getting ignored off the ball. Alfred Camino, Pascal Seacum, Eric Bledso in this series where Toronto just does not respect him. They don't care about his shot and they're overloading their defense against Janus and forcing everybody else to beat them

and Milwaukee has not come through two games in a row now. I think part of it is the Raptors are kind of trying to get the ball out of Janus's hands much earlier than he wants it to get out. So they are showing that double. They're showing the kind of help a defender. But there's always going to be that rotating man who's ready to help on the shooter whenever they actually do kind of force the ball out of Janus's hand. It was a full team effort to guard Janus' stay.

And it was the results kind of speak for themselves. For sure. Janus tonight at 25 points, 9 of 17, 6 of 10 from the line, 10 rebounds, is a CISD, a good game. It's not like he stunk by any means. And that beginning of the game where basically every point the buck scored was like on a

Janus Euro step. There's just nothing you can do about that. Like he's always going to be trying to score around guys just because his coordination, his power, that ability to kind of do that double juke Euro step that not so many people can do on Earth. That's going to be, you know, yeah, yeah.

That's going to be kind of the difference maker always when it comes to like a one-on-one possession, the only thing you could really do is try to force him to score over you. That's where guys like Charles Barkley are talking about, oh, he needs a floater. You know, like, if he can't get that layup, if you can't get that dunk, that's where you're going to be able to kind of affect his offensive performance.

A floater would be nice, but I think having teammates who could hit open three would be nice as well. And tonight, Nicola Meritich did not come through, two of eight from three. Eric Blutzo was just downright horrific, all game, O for two from three, two for seven from the floor.

At the end of game three, you could see the fear in his eyes when he was at the free throw line and when he missed the two in a row at the end of game three. And his struggles continued again tonight. And Malcolm Brogden, who's been pretty good since returning two of 11 tonight for only four points. Milwaukee, classic ringer curse, you know? Mirror Curse, Charks wrote a great piece on Brogden today. It goes without saying that if your third, fourth, and fifth best players aren't performing well, you're probably going to lose the game.

But they got what they needed from Janus. Chris Middleton had a really strong performance. He looked like the max player that people would expect him to be this summer. but tonight Eric Bletsso he did nothing to squash any of the concerns people had about him and heading into the postseason on the offensive end of the floor. He's never been a reliable player over the course of his career and he has certainly not been reliable on the offensive end in the postseason.

I can't help but think for the bucks. They signed him in that four-year $70 million deal with the fourth year non-guaranteed on March 1st. And Eric Bletsoe had a tremendous season defensively. I had him in my all-NBA defensive team. And I had no... There were real discussions about him being the second best player on the team during the regular season. Exactly.

Like second most important player over Chris Middleton. There was a legitimate argument about that. Me and Charks were just completely offended. But, yeah, there was an argument. It was legitimate. And in the postseason, I think it's been quite clear that Chris Milton is the second most important player on the Bucks. And Eric Bletso could have been a mistake. He was asked tonight.

He was not a good player. And I think for Janus, he needs that secondary ball handling presence. that can playmake in the half court, that can hit shots in the half court. And right now it's looking to me, like George Hill is the better option than Eric Bletso, who just does not look like a player who deserves to be on the court because of his offensive limitations. Look, I'm never going to say no to more George Hill minutes. To make this clear, George Hill is your favorite player, correct? Well, he's top five, definitely.

Top five. Are we talking all time or like the past couple years? I would say, I would say over the past decade, he is one of my five. How does this happen? You know what? I get attracted to strange things in general. Okay. Should we get into this or save it for another day? Yo, whenever we want to launch an insect podcast, like, let me know, Bill.

Okay. That'll be next. But George Hill. Yeah. Once a very good two-way player who faded away for a year and a half, two years, and now he's back. And I think from Milwaukee in the series, granted, he did not have a great game himself. he's at least somebody the defense has to respect

when he's spotting up from three. Bletso is a sub-30% catch and three-point shooter. There's no reason for Toronto to fend Bletzo. They can help on Janus when he has the ball on his hands. George Hill is somebody who can at least be a little bit more reliable

spotting up. Is that a change that you think Milwaukee does need to make in this series? Absolutely. And I think before this game, Mike Boodenholzer had talked about how there may not be

a minute restriction on Brogden, but he does kind of like what Brogden adds as a sixth man. But I think going forward, if Eric Bledso just isn't going to be showing up in this series, you have to have them on a short leash and have Brogden Hill out there at the same time because they offer you exactly what a team with Janus, a team that's trying to build around Janus needs.

You know, a reliable three-point shooting, guys who are comfortable making plays for others, but who aren't going to be making a lot of mistakes. I think that's the biggest thing. You can't have turnovers when you're on this Bucks team. And tonight for Milwaukee, I think in regards to their personnel, we talked about this a little bit before recording the podcast, Mew and Isaac Lee, who's producing tonight's show. Did we overrate Milwaukee's supporting cast around Yannis, or is this more just the variance of that core when Nicola Mertich has always been somebody who's a streaky shooter? He is stretches where he hits at 40% plus from three and then stretches where he can't find the net at all. Eric Blutso, a historically streaky offensive player.

again tonight he struggled. A lot of their guys are up and down. Brooke Lopez, somebody who only recently, has become a high-volume three-point shooter. Was their core a little bit overrated, or is this just the nature of it, where it's going to be up and down, and we've seen the downs these past two games?

I mean, the thing is, when you look at some of the past games, I mean, the Buc's supporting cast has been there, and there was a game where Eric Bledso, Janice, and Middleton were all garbage last game. The reason why they were able to take it to that double overtime was because of the contributions of Brogden, because of the contributions of George Hill. And so I feel like they do have the requisite depth,

but this is what you're bargaining with when you have a team full of three-point shooters. It's always going to be high variance. And I think for Toronto, they've figured things out defensively where they're just going to dare those high variance players to beat him and they're going to live with the results. I think for Toronto, there's concern moving forward with Kauai looking like he's not at full strength.

Defensively, he's been great. He's been amazing. But offensively, he had that big dunk at the start of the third quarter where he posterized Janus and then landed and was grabbing in his right leg and limbered up the floor. He was concerning. Yeah, he was moving very gingerly throughout the entire game. I had mentioned this while we were watching it, but it felt like a very Duncan-esque performance from Kauai. An old Duncan, though.

Yeah, exactly. Old Duncan basically played on one leg for the final, like, four or five years of his career. But he was still an effective defender. He was still the kind of the fulcrum of their defense. And with Kauai in this game, the funny thing was, you watch him in the first half and you watch him in the second half. He actually played more minutes than most of the rotation guys on the team. And yet he was kind of invisible on offense for a lot of stretches. Like he was playing a lot off ball, made some very decisive cuts.

It was almost like retro Kauai was coming out in stretches. I kind of appreciated that. Kauai obviously is a superstar of the Raptors, but Kyle Laueri, the series overall has been great. even in game one, which they lost. Lowry had 30 points. Tonight he had 25 points on 6 of 11 shooting, 6 assists, 5 rebounds, only one turnover. Lowry, a guy who is historically, people have considered a choker in the playoffs. Historically, people have looked at him as a regular season player who has failed in the postseason.

But he seems to be changing the tune in this series overall. We talk about this a lot. And again, this is something that we brought up during the game. But I've brought this up to, and I've been critical of his first. first game of the playoffs. His first game of the playoffs is always garbage. It's frankly, 0 for 7 against the magic back on April 13th, which feels like a century ago. Right. And so, but the thing is, it has been such a consistent part of his narrative that has become like this self-fulfilling prophecy. And from there, and he also did kind of struggle shooting the ball

against Philadelphia and against Orlando the whole series. But even in the Sixers series, he kind of made up for it with a lot of effort. That game seven he had was incredible. Him and Fred Van der Leet kind of changed the tone of that series with their effort. And we will always kind of judge Lowry off of that first game. And that will always kind of color how we see him. But he's been amazing in the series. And he's really put forth a lot of effort on both ends of the floor doing Lowry things. His hands probably still not healed.

But he's out there gutting it out. And at this point, you know, that's all you can really ask for. I think overall Lowry sort of symbolizes the. changed that's happened on this entire Toronto Raptors roster where at the beginning of the series, we were talking about how Marcusol needs to take those open threes. He has to be more aggressive on the offensive floor. We're talking about how Siakam has not been quite the same player in the postseason. And Seacom tonight did not put up big numbers, but he had six assists. They put the ball in his hands, all in the ball more often because what Milwaukee was doing

was they were helping off of Seacum in order to clog the pain against Kawhi Leonard. So what they do is, Seacom have him cutting more off ball, more on the ball opportunities. And then with Marcusole, he's just been more aggressive, taking more three-pointers. And with Kauai being a little bit limited offensively, he still looks like Kauai Leonard, despite the fact he's grabbing at his right side a lot, which is alarming for moving forward for them, if they do advance against the Warriors. But they're getting the contributions that they need from the rest of their team, which I think is the reason why this has been tied up. And the reason why moving forward in the series, I picked Milwaukee in six before the series.

and even entering tonight, I was like, Milwaukee made me a good chance they win the next two. Yeah. But I think the fact is that we've seen a little bit of a sustained stretch of Toronto playing differently, a more aggressive style, using their players differently. And these are the type of adjustments that need to be made in the postseason. So, Danny, I do wonder, though, with those adjustments that have been made, assuming those continue for Toronto, what is something that you think Milwaukee should do moving forward in order to counter that if you're a coach, Mike Boodenholzer? I mean, really just hit your threes. Sometimes it is as simple as make or miss league, right?

Like when you play a game with Janus and he makes the game so much easier for everyone else, you really just need to hit those threes. And they haven't been able to hit those open threes from the corners, from the wings, all series. I'm pretty sure they've, have they lost the three-point percentage battle every game? It feels that.

At least three of the games. I have the numbers in front of me, but... Right. And I really do feel like it's a lot of that. And look, overall, though, they're shooting less than 30% in the series from three. Yeah. Yeah. And look, you can't expect the Raptors to score 48 bench points every game going forward. So, like, this might be a blip in the radar.

It might be because of the tremendous home court advantage. There were fans just lined outside of Jurassic Park and beyond. Okay, if you describe that scene. Like, he showed us a photo of it. That scene was unreal. Yeah, and it was crazy. It was basically, like, four different sections. behind the arena

blocked off. It was almost like Times Square like on New Year's Day not like maybe like a 13th of that level but still you know like

it was a lot of fans outside cheering and like this city is really rallying around this team and they have their new campaign to keep Kauai Kristen Lelo

mentioned on the broadcast site Kauine and Dine yeah just a cute little sticker you know basically what every every needs free yeah every restaurant

that has that features this sticker that features this campaign, this logo. I guess E for free. How are you enjoying Raptors fandom, Danny? Watching the game with you tonight is my first time watching the Raptors with you. It feels like I feel the intensity.

I feel the nerves from you. You quickly adapted this team. Definitely nervy. I was shouting a lot. A lot of expletives. Threw a lot of those out. No, Raptors' fandom has been great. And this game was like, I could not have asked for a better game to pot about.

So as a Raptors fan moving forward in the series, As somebody who picked the bucks, like I said, in six, I feel a little bit iffyer on that now. I'm not sure if there's a little recency bias coming in here. I mean, the home team won each game. Right. And Milwaukee has home court advantage. However, like I said earlier,

I do think Toronto's changes that they made are encouraging for this team. What is your sense of the rest of the series considering the adjustments that Nick Nurse has made? I think Norm Powell has done his service. I just can't really see him continuing this, like, on the road. hitting these no hesitation threes from all over the court, off the dribble, off the catch. He had a portion game, and it kind of very quickly tailed off after he hit some huge momentum shifting threes. But you know what? I do have to shout out charks here, because he's not with us, but he is our brother.

He's spiritually here. Before this game, he was just like, here's what the Raptors need to do. they need to benchmark us all and start Nouran Powell, get Noren Powell as many minutes as they can get him on Malcolm Brogden. Because his whole thing was Malcolm Brogden has been doing a very good job on Kauai Leonard. You kind of want Noren Powell, who is a bit more bouncy, a lot more bouncy, more of an athletic, dynamic explosive type of guy instead of a methodical one-on-one player on him. And so I want to believe in this bench effort,

but I don't know how much it's going to kind of sustain itself on the road. I think with Toronto, one of the things to watch for moving forward in the series is how they're just moving the ball. Tonight they had 32 assist on 41 makes. You know, Seacom had the sixth assist. Gassol had seven. Lowry had six. Powell had three. Van Bleet had six.

Ibaka had two. Leonard only had one. Danny Green only had one as well. But the team overall was just whipping the ball around the court. And I thought they did a really good job of getting paint touches, then kicking the ball back out. in order to create defensive rotations and generate open shots that way. I think the ball movement will be key moving forward in the series for Toronto. They play differently.

Kauai, a lot more isolations at the top of the key. I don't think you can win the series that way just by isolating Kauai over and over and over and over. That's not going to work. You're not going to win it that way. You're going to need that at the end of close games, as we saw on game seven against the Sixers, which remains mind-blowing that that shot actually went in. But over the course of the game, they're going to have to continue moving the ball with or without Kowah's. why on the floor.

And for Milwaukee, their defense is just going to have to be really, really sound. I think they're going to have to continue helping off the non-shooters. And even with Marcus Sol, he's still somebody. You have to continue your drop more conservative defense. I don't think you should stray away from that. Right. If you're Milwaukee, I think that's the formula that worked for them all season. I think it's the formula that they correctly adjusted against the Celtics.

But in this Toronto series, I tend to think sticking with that would be the best move. They just have to be really sound in their own rotations as well. Yeah, I mean, look, two of the best Raptors players this regular season have not shown up yet. That's Pascal Skokom, that's Danny Green. Danny Green was in foul trouble this game. Couldn't really get into a rhythm. Made some really nice defensive plays. But he hasn't had a standout offense performance yet.

I'm still kind of waiting on that. That would kind of show me, oh, okay, yeah. This ball movement that you're talking about being a key to the game, if they can kind of unlock Danny Green, and unlock his ability to serve as that JJ Redick type guy who could pull up and transition off the catch. That would add an element that they haven't yet had in this series. All right, Danny, before we go on, let's hear from today's sponsor, Turro. Turrow is a peer-to-peer car-sharing marketplace where you can book any car you want, wherever you want it, from a community of local hosts.

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Terms Apply. Now back to the corner three. One last thought I have about Toronto. We touched on Kauai earlier, the great defense that he played. With the injury that he's had, the entire team has sort of followed his lead with the effort that he's putting in there. He had four steel. He just played hard, really hard on the defensive end of the floor. And this entire team has a whole, Sergei Baca, Norman Powell, Van Ville, Laueri,

up and down the board for this team, everybody's playing hard. And that's something, again, that you need to carry over. It goes without saying you get to play hard. But with your leader in Kauai Leonard, who is clearly hurt for him to continue playing with the intensity level that he has, has set a really strong tone for the entire roster. Yeah, and with the narrative of him, you know, he's this hired assassin. Oh, yeah. The one year here, he has no real reason to truly commit to this team.

There was a quote at the end of game three, actually, where he was apparently talking to Pascal Seacum, and he's just like, man, I played nearly an hour. And then Pascal's like, oh, dude, I'm sorry, I'll hit those two free throws next time. And it was like just... Or that pull-up three, then the regulation. Yeah, it was just like, you know, just him having this rapport with the team, him leading by example.

It says a lot. It says a lot about this team. You know, and that's going to be the fascinating thing moving forward, regardless of what happens in this series with Kauai. I've been thinking a lot recently, it's like if you have a job and you just want to transfer to the Los Angeles office and they send you to Toronto, the odds are, you know, in a year when you're able to go to that Los Angeles office, you're probably going to leave Toronto unless you just totally fall in love with the city. And with Kauai, he had that signature moment.

Unless you're me. Unless you're Danny Chow, yes, who could leave his native Los Angeles for Toronto. But with Kauai, it's like all indications are that he's still strongly going to consider going to Los Angeles. But the one interesting wrinkle is in today's news. Isaac's over here just like dancing. Yeah. Resident Clevers fan Isaac Lee, arms up in the air. He's a big smile on his face.

Disgusting. With Kauai, I mean, that's going to be the conversation no matter what happens moving forward. But in today's news, Mark Stein of the New York Times, reported that, quote, very smart and plugged in people, end quote, told him that the clippers emerged as a, quote, equally dangerous threat as the New York Knicks to sign Kevin Durant. The clippers, of course, are the team that also could be going after Kauai Leonard. And there's been no secret the entire season. You know, people in their front office have not shied away from it.

It's been reported by everybody that the clippers would like to try to add Kauai Leonard and Kevin Durant. They don't just want one star. They don't just want two stars. They want as many, like, game-changing talents as they can get. And they are probably the most in position to do that out of any team in the league. They can create the max slots. They have the assets to at least get in the conversation for an Anthony Davis trade if he becomes available.

Katie's manager, Rich Climman, and his roommate, Rich Climman said today in an interview that he's, quote, 100% undecided on his future. I'm really not totally sure what to make to this because everything I've heard from my sources is that Katie to the Knicks is still the highly likely scenario. But with that said, it's like Stein said in his report today, that over the past month or so, that certainly has quieted down a little bit where there's a little bit more doubt where maybe he would consider the Clippers.

Maybe he will consider the Nets. But I do wonder, though, is this just a repeat of what we saw last year with LeBron where it's like, oh, he's going to consider the Sixers? He's got to take a meeting when really it's just an anti-tampering PR-style move when he's going to the Knicks anyway, just like LeBron was going to the Lakers. I don't know. I kind of believe it just because of what we've seen from KD's kind of personality over the years and how he is openly willing to express his doubts and his concerns and do some weird stuff on the internet.

Like he is a millennial. He's one of us. Do I believe that he doesn't really know what he's doing? Sure. Because I don't really know what I'm doing. You know, so like there's a certain, like, relatability to that. And I'm just like, okay, yeah, no. If you're saying you don't know where you want to go, I buy it. That's when I first fell in love with Katie as a player was in their early 2010s when he used to just tweet about relationship stuff and bathwater. It's like, wow, me and Katie, Kevin and Kevin, we have a lot in common.

Things have changed over the years. Katie's personality has changed mine has not for better or for worse. I'm not sure. But for Katie, he proved to be unpredictable of his last move where going to a 73 win team that was on the verge of going to the finals that beat his team in a three to one comeback. Not something people could have predicted, especially when there were other appealing options. Staying in Oklahoma City, going to Boston, which would have been a move that nobody really frowned at for Katie to do that. But he went to Golden State. And I think with all indications being the Knicks, it would not surprise me if one bit, knowing KD and understanding as much as we do about him, we're not buddy buddies with him.

But understanding what we do about Katie, it would not surprise me if there's a part of him that's like, I'm not going to go to the Knicks. Because everybody thinks I'm going to go there. I'm going to either stay or just go somewhere else. So it's for like the Clippers, if Steve Ballmer sits down with him, if they bring in players who Katie has openly said that he highly respects Montrose Harrell, Patrick Beverly, and others on that team as well, Shagildos Alexander, if those guys get a meeting with him and they're like, yo, we're going to sign this guy too. You get to live in Los Angeles, take over the city from LeBron James, and show that you're

the best player in the league, that you're the better overall player, period, and you're going to win championships for a Clippers team that has never won anything in the past. You're going to be the hero of this franchise. I think it's something that Katie is at least going to think about. You sold me. I mean, it's pretty, it's an easy

pitch. It's not. It's an easy pitch. Plus, they're like, hey, if you commit to us, who's the star? you want. We can get them. Bingo. They have the assets. They have the cap space. Whereas the Nix, they're run by a worse owner, a front office that has not made the just absolutely tremendous moves that Lawrence, Frank, and that Clippers front office has made. Everybody, up and down the board. They have shown a commitment to spending, a commitment to taking necessary risks, a commitment to investing in this team with young players and Doc Rivers as well,

has actually, for a guy over the course of his entire basketball coaching career, has not played young players has started two rookies. And Landry Schamett and Chegildas Alexander, I think this Clippers organization is clearly on the up and up. It goes without saying with or without KD. And Isaac is over here just grinning because I'm spitting truth over here about the Clippers. Because Isaac, with this team,

no matter what happens this summer, the Clippers are on the up and up. But I think that they have clearly positioned themselves, as Mark Stein said today, to at least be a threat to sign KD. And that has to be for you, just something that feels really, really good to think about.

Yeah, it's great. For what it's worth, I don't believe that KD will actually come to the Clippers. I do believe that they will have a meeting. I don't think anyone really in this room or on our staff even believes that it's a real, real possibility.

It's a real, real possibility. It's a possibility. I totally think it's a real possibility. I think he's going to take a meeting at least. Okay, maybe it's a real possibility. It's not a real probability. I wouldn't bet on it, basically. Sure.

I would still bet on KD going to the next. At the same time, it does feel good to see that in the press, People are like this star player, one of the greatest, what, 15, 20 best players of all time? One of the greatest. Yeah, one of the greatest. Regardless of the number. Looking to join the Los Angeles Clippers, the longtime laughing stock of the NBA.

So it's great publicity for the Clippers. But I do want to point out that the Rich Climmon quote, that he is 100% undecided on his future. Everyone is. Yeah, which is saying nothing. That says nothing. He could be 100% leaning towards the Knicks, but he's still 100% undecided. even if he's leaning. So I don't think that really means much.

I also think there's a very, very real possibility that this is a leverage play where he can, because everyone has said that he's going to the Knicks, that he can kind of get the power back by putting it out there that he might consider the Clippers. All that to say, I think this is great. And I'm very hopeful for the Clippers future, especially with the Young Assets, with the Capspace, with Jerry West signing on for another year with the front office. Like Trent Red and Michael Winger were both almost poached by other franchise. but they stayed. They chose to stay, yeah. And those are all very hopeful signs for the clippers. Absolutely.

I think the clippers are an example of how quickly narratives can change, how perception can change, how the clippers have quickly become a team that was once considered like the toilet team, bottom in the barrel and the NBA. Clippers are going to be the clippers and all that. Now they're a model franchise moving forward. I mean, it really helps me have the richest owner in the NBA who knows he doesn't know a lot. Richest owner in sports. Yeah.

Who sits courtside in his full. invested in this team emotionally and financially. I think that says a lot. And that brings us to the New Orleans Pelicans, another team that has been really considered a pathetic franchise. They've been perceived that way for many years. David Griffin was just hired as president of basketball operations there. Trescent Langdon. And he was hired as general manager under Griffin just this week. For New Orleans, David Griffin, they just got a $3.8 million investment into a practice facility from their owner, Gail Benson. And Griffin publicly said how important that is for the team. but he also spoke about the idea that it's a, quote, false narrative that players wouldn't want to be drafted there to go play in New Orleans regarding Zion Williamson and John Moran, who they both met at the NBA Combine.

Some of the talk following the lottery last week, Danny, was about how, oh, well, Zion go back to school, ooh, well, Zion try to force his way somewhere else. And quickly that's changed. And suddenly the conversation about the Pelicans has turned into, well, you could be pairing Zion Williamson with Anthony Davis. and trying to build something potentially special here. And I think for New Orleans, they're in a position now where they don't have to trade AD. Of course not. Even if AD is telling you this summer, yeah, I'm going to bounce. I'm leaving.

Griffin has all of the leverage. He can do whatever he wants. You can take it into the season and see how this plays out with Zion, AD, Drew Holiday, and whatever other changes they make this offseason and see what happens. Because if you're AD and this team's winning games and they're like the four seed or five seed, something like that, And they totally can be. They absolutely could be. And if they're that successful during the season, suddenly he might be like, you know what?

Like, I'm happy here. I see the potential for us, you know, making some changes. You know, when it first happened, I was, like, in the lottery room when that happened and, like, I wanted to go nuts. And then Alvin Gentry allowed everybody to go nuts with his reaction. But, like, the more and more I've thought about it the last week, just the more and more incredible that it is. Like, just think about everything that happened this season.

I wrote about, like, 80 trade sweepstakes, things like four times. times over the season. We talked about it all the time on podcasts that he was going to be traded to the Celtics, the Lakers, or the Clippers, or the Knicks, or whoever. And like, what's going to happen to the Pelicans? They're going to move to Seattle.

It's like, suddenly, they have a chance to draft one of the best prospects of the century. Yeah. Paring with another guy who is one of those players of the century, Anthony Davis, it's just, it's mind-blowing that this actually happened. One stone hit the water, the ripples.

We don't know where they're going to be carrying us. This is, wow, that was really poetic, huh? It's beautiful. But yeah, like, I totally understand that. And, like, look, New Orleans is one of the best cities in America. It's pretty great. Top three for me. So, Zion, give it a shot.

Got to give it a shot, I think with AD. We're going to have a special draft edition podcast with Me, You and Charks, in the flesh. Oh, yeah. All three of us. We're recording this week, and it'll air sometimes next week on the Ringer NBA show. We're not sure which day exactly, but look over that. We're going to be doing a Q&A. No back.

Yes, you guys submitted some questions on Twitter to us that we'll be answering this week, and we're excited about that. But just to kind of tease that for next week, I am curious, Danny, just on the topic of New Orleans, this fit with Zion and AD. And there'll be a lot of time to talk about this, but I just can't get it off my mind. I think it has the potential to be like a supercharged version of what we saw with DeMarcus cousins in AD, where it was like not the best fit because of DeMarcus's defensive limitations, but we saw the potential of it on offense with two guys who can handle the ball,

two guys that can space the floor. With AD screening for DeMarcus cousins, we're going to see that immediately with Zion as a ball handler or as a screener, as a guy who can go coast to coast. I think it's like the ideal fit for Anthony Davis. That was the appeal of LeBron. And Zion is not LeBron James, but the appeal was like you can interchange those guys

and use them perfectly alongside each other. But with Zion, like it's a similar concept. and now it's like two potential, well, AD already is, but two potential elite defenders along arms. Alongside Drew Holiday. Alongside Drew Holiday.

Like, we're talking about a team that has at least the potential to be a lockdown defensive team with length and versatility and tough to handle on offense because, again, their length and versatility and skill versatility

and ability to play in different areas of the floor. It's fascinating. I think one of the things that you really need to see out of Zion is, look, he was willing to take that three, but how much of that outside jumper actually translates to the NBA? It didn't translate all too well at Duke.

It was maybe the one weakness he had, literally the one weakness he had. And so when you're looking at potential fit, there could be a situation in which it almost mirrors something closer to a Ben Simmons, Joel Embed type situation where... Very possible. Yeah, where teams can kind of have a... at least a framework of how to defend these two players when neither of them are necessarily knocked down three-point shooters.

80 past four seasons, a 32.4% three-point shooter in Zion. Would not be surprising him. He's in that same ballpark. And you're right, that's going to be one of the challenges for the team moving forward. What level do each of them reach as a shooter, especially in catching shoot situations, not off the dribble? That'll be the challenge. That'll be the hurdle for that team.

But overall, there's just so much to be excited about. Yeah, I think for the New Orleans Pelicans, they went from hopeless. Full on depression and unsure what the future would look like to excitement, regardless of what happens with AD, because of the potential and the promise of Zion wants. And the potential of nine years of him. Yeah, exactly.

And somebody who, I think Jonathan Giovanni mentioned this recently somewhere, Zion is not necessarily obsessed with the big market. He's a guy with like over three million Instagram followers, but he does not abuse that in the sense that. He's a funny guy. He's a good personality. He's a good dude. And like he rarely ever, like,

like posts on Instagram. Like it doesn't matter if he does or doesn't. But like I'm saying he's not somebody who's obsessed with the spotlight. And I think like New Orleans, it could be like a really good place for him because it's not a big media market. It's a place where there will be less pressure on him. Whereas if he goes to New York, he's immediately viewed as the savior. If he goes to the Lakers, he's immediately viewed as like the next LeBron, you know,

like the guy who can take over for LeBron in three years. Whereas in New Orleans, it's like it's a team that needs a savior, like alongside AD, but there's not going to be quite as much pressure. It's good for him. I do wonder, though, like, how that kind of dynamic works between him and AD in terms of fame, just because AD has very clearly stated he wants to kind of be in a bigger market to kind of amplify his image. He had that really strange quote about wanting to be his own business or something like that. I don't buy it with him.

I kind of don't either. I feel like winning is what matters to him, but it's interesting to imagine, and this could very well happen because Zion's such an engaging personality. but like what if he kind of outshines him gets all of the endorsements that aren't castor motor oil or whatever it is 80 shilling? What happens then? What if he gets all of these,

you know, does it become like a Damien Lillard, Lamarcus Aldridge kind of like a weird view between the establishment and the kind of new guard, you know? I hope it doesn't become that. I hope if they get the chance for it to become that,

it doesn't become that. I would like to see David Griffin taking them to the season. I think he will based off what I've heard, and that's sort of what some executives across the league are expecting, but it's the type of thing where if he meets AD face-to-face this summer, and he's like, dude, I'm bouncing no matter what, and then the Lakers offer you four unprotected future of first-round draft picks

and all their young assets. It's like maybe you do roll with a young core, but fact is that regardless of what happens for the Pelicans, like the Clippers, Clippers have turned into a upcoming franchise after many, many years, even with a great core with Blake Griffin and Chris Paul and Lobb City, the ceiling is now... Yes, so much higher.

And for New Orleans, suddenly a team that was hopeless has become a team with quite a lot of hope compared to most other teams in the league. It shows how quickly things can change. Absolutely. Danny, that's all we have time for today. Can't wait to talk soon. Talk draft.

I'm excited for that one next week. Thank you for listening to The Ringer NBA show. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Give us a thumbs up on YouTube. Share the podcast with your friends if you like it. And be sure to check out the ringer. We have loads and loads of NBA playoff content, don't we, Danny? Of course.

And now that Game of Thrones is over, you have no excuse. Read all of it. You got to read all of it. We also have our NBA draft guide up, which will be updated at some point next week and loads of other content, as always. Shout out to Isaac Lee, resident Clippers fan of the ringer for producing today's show. Thanks again for listening. Peace.