The Ringer NBA Show - Kawhi Rumors and Draft Prep | Heat Check (Ep. 291)

Episode Date: June 18, 2018

The Ringer's John Gonzalez is joined by Joe House to talk Kawhi Leonard rumors and odds for which team he ends up on (2:40), then John sits down with Tate Frazier and Riley McAtee to discuss potential top 10 NBA draft picks including Luka Doncic, Marvin Bagley III, Wendell Carter Jr., Mo Bamba, Trae Young, and more (32:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's a heat check. You knew that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to the Heat Check podcast. I'm your host, John Gonzalez, has joined. Every week, I would say, joined every week by Isaac Lee. This week is a different week. I'm joined by our first ever producer who has moved on to bigger and better things,

but is filling in this week. Kyle is here. What's going on, Kyle? How's it going? A lot of people don't know that. That's right. You were back in the day with Heat Check 1.0 when it was me and Juliet on the regular. You were the original podcast producer.

And then you became too talented and too famous for us. And you went on to the big bosses. podcast, but you're here for this week. Yeah, feeling good. It's excellent. Happy Monday. Yes, happy Monday. Happy Father's Day to all the fathers listening and everybody at the ringer who's

a father, especially Shea Serrano, who had a tough run, tough run with Kauai Leonard, but he's got a beautiful family and congrats on El Chai beating Germany, so that's fun. But we're going to get into Kawhi a little bit later. Got a lot of content about that on the ringer. KOC has a piece up right now. Is it finally time for the Spurs to rebuild? That certainly will not help ingratiate him to Shea, but he's a very brave man. And also we've got Riley Macatty on the ringer.com right now, the most likely landing spots for Kauai.

Riley's going to join us a little bit later in the program. He's actually a Kings fan, which I didn't know that there were any, but he is. And he's going to join us. And we're going to talk to him about the draft along with Tate Frazier, check in with those guys ahead of Thursday nights, big NBA draft festivities. We've also got NBA desktop with Jason Concepcion, which has been killing it. We've got the Bill Simmons podcast he just had Kyrie Irving on to talk. about Kauai and J.R. Smith in the finals and all kinds of good discussion about player empowerment in the NBA. And today he's bringing on a bunch of ringer staffers for a mock draft pod. You want to

check that out. And Tuesday, it's happening the big court side at the NBA finals on HBO. That's June 19th at 9 p.m. Eastern time. Bill was all over the finals. Kyle was there with Tommy. They're all over the finals talking to people getting a ton of access, a lot of interviews. I'm super excited to check that out. And also, the World Cup is. ongoing. We've got Ringer FC every weekday during the World Cup, so you want to listen to that. So like I said, later in the show, we're going to

have Tate Frazier and Riley McAtee to talk about the draft in the Kings. But first, because there's so much Kauai and offseason fun stuff to discuss, we've got to bring in one of our favorites. It's been way too long since I've talked to him. I'm excited. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me on the other line, it has been far, far too long since I've talked to him.

We've texted a little bit, but I haven't seen him since I was in D.C. From Shaq House and House of Carbs, a very special Happy Father's Day to Joe House. How are things? Wang Gan, I am not worthy. I'm so happy to be back on the heat check. I had to warn you,

I have turned off my basketball brain. I'm now just purely ready for the soap opera, for the drama of the postseason. It was very merciful of the Golden State Warriors to execute, the Cavaliers in four quick games so we can all move on and get to the really juicy part of the NBA season, which is where we are right now. The off season, it's wonderful.

And the last time I talked to you, you were not a champion. And now you are a champion. Congratulations to you and D.C. on the capitals win. It's hockey. So it's like three-fourths of a championship. Yes, caps, caps, caps. C-A-P.

Okay, I'll stop. Is that what you guys do there? Wow. Wow, when you least expect it, Wang God. It's the very best thing ever. It's the best, best, best thing. Among 10,000 great things, how much do you enjoy? You're an objective observer.

You have no real dog in the hunt, no real horse to ride in the race. How about Obedekin? That's amazing. It was fine. He's obviously really enjoying himself, and I'm happy for my friends in D.C. like you. I've got a couple other friends in D.C. I did, however, I was at a bar last night.

My father-in-law is in town, and we went out. We had like a sort of a dad's summit with a bunch of dads, took them out. And I ran into a Washington football fan who saw, you know, various members of our congregation wearing Eagles gear. We have to go in that direction. Well, this is what I'm saying. So I was like really happy for all of D.C. And this guy comes over. And he goes, oh, you guys are Eagles fans.

And I said, yeah, isn't it great that they won? And he was giving me a bunch of heat about how it's the only. only championship in Eagles history. And I'm like, when was the last time that the Washington football team won one? It's been a long time, homie. I don't need that. I don't care about that. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about the caps.

I don't like it. This is the way we should do. We should be happy for each time. I'm happy for the caps for you. You're happy for the Eagles for me. You can't have the negativity of the Washington football fans. Yeah, I disagree with that guy. Whoever that guy was, he had the wrong take. He's out. The right take is just talk about the caps. The only thing that there is to talk about is the world champion, the Stanley Cup owners. They, you know, it was a, as Tom Wilson said,

not everything that happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, baby. It's very exciting for you, for D.C. It's also, as you said, NBA offseason, which is exciting. And I hope it will be, it has to be more entertaining than the NBA finals was. But we have this Kauai news that I wanted to run past you. It's been the big talk of the NBA off season already in advance of free agency. and also, of course, Thursday nights NBA draft, which we're going to get into a little bit later.

But Kauai report, there were reports that he wants out of San Antonio. There was a little bit of smoke this season that, you know, he didn't play much. And there was a lot of controversy about things that Tony Parker and Manner Ginobly said about how Kauai could come back. And Pauai could come back. And Kauai didn't come back.

And now it looks like he doesn't ever want to come back. Are you surprised Joe House? I'm not surprised. The hardest thing, ever to divine with the NBA. And this is part of what makes it so delicious, is separating truth from fiction and every single story that you hear

about a player's intentions, other than what comes out of that player's own mouth. And even when it comes out of that player's own mouth, you can only ascribe like 60% credibility to it depending on the player. But there's so much rumor and sources say, and people are saying, and I, we heard this and I just really have a hard time believing anything.

It is apparent that Kauai and the Spurs franchise were not on the same page with his treatment protocol. Yeah. And they were also not on the same page, it seems, about sort of the nature of the injury. So I understand that there may have been a rift created because of, you know, a false step and some distrifice. trust that has entered that relationship. But none of that has to be dispositive in terms of what Kauai and the Spurs ultimately want to do. I will say the Spurs are in a really precarious position. There are about six or seven teams that I sort of think, the playoff teams that share the same precarious position of being in a no man's land in terms of,

their player personnel and the direction of the franchise. The problem the Spurs have is they have a whole bunch of old guys and Pop, who may only have another couple years left in his coaching career. So what's a young guy like Kauai who just had this years worth of experience where for the first time, maybe he feels like the franchise doesn't have his back? What is he to think? what is he to do? What's in Kauai's best interest? It's very, very rich to think about it,

Wang Gan. It's exactly what you said. It's a precarious position. Our buddy KOC wrote a piece for the ringer.com which Shea has vowed never to read, which is basically like, hey, is this like the crack that's finally going to sink the Spurs, otherwise

unsinkable organization? Are they going to have to even rebuild? Because as you mentioned, you've got Kauai. He's their main guy. He's evident. according to reports, doesn't want to go back. And then if you unplug him, what kind of return are you going to get? You mentioned Pop. How many more years does he want to continue to do this? He's taken on the USA basketball thing.

Like, is he long for the game? Tony Parker's on his way out. Managing Nobly is my age? I mean, like, what are you doing with this team? Is Marcus Aldridge, your main guy? Like, is it finally time? And this was a really interesting thought experiment that KOC went through in his piece. Is it finally time for the Spurs to rebuild?

And that seems almost unthinkable because it's been, what, two decades almost that they haven't had to even think about that. Yeah, and they've had the luxury of, and, you know, I don't mean to call it, you know, it's not like it's luck. They built this luxury themselves. But the continued stability that emanates from a 20-year Duncan career and a 50, I don't know how long, Genobley and Parker, but let's just say 15 years for each of those guys. Like there's real franchise continuity there that, you know, at some point is going to come to an end. I feel like we're right out on the brink of that end. And just from a talent perspective, who is their best player? It's Aldridge, I guess, but like who's their second best player?

I don't know. And it would be crazy if they unplug Kauai. But I don't know what other recourse they have. And it looks like according to these reports that, you know, know, it seems like the uncle and the family are sort of driving this because they think he's undervalued. He turned down that $20 million extension with Nike because they thought that he was worth more and that maybe like the San Antonio market is sort of, you know, sapping his value. Do you think, I mean, is he undervalued? He's one of the best players in the NBA, but it's not

like he's the simulating entertainer in this presence. He doesn't, when you think of Kwai, you think, you know, he's a two-way player. He's fantastic defensively. He can lock down anybody. super switchable, but I don't immediately think, oh, man, I got to hear what Kauai had to say about this, or did you see what Kauai said to TMZ or Kauai is dating so. And I don't even, I haven't heard anything about Kauai as a human being or a personality maybe ever. And I can't imagine that's just because of the spurs. Yeah. So that's, we're talking about two different things, right?

I think he's properly valued from, from a basketball perspective. Everybody with a basketball brain in their basketball heads knows he's, if not a top, you know, five talent. He's a top eight talent, a top ten town in the NBA. Literally irreplaceable, right, once you get to those guys. From a marketability perspective, it's just whatever the market will pay. So if 20 million isn't enough, good on you, my dude, go get more. Go get more. There's a lot of guys that want to pay. Adidas wants to pay. Under Armour needs a lifeline. They hadn't had a great year. But, you know, go out there and get that money. That's fine. You don't have to take. If 20 feels like a low ball, fine.

They know. Go get one of those Chinese deals that Steph Marbury got. I want him to have the Chinese Steph Marbury shoes. That would be excellent if he started rocking those. If I know anything about Joe House, though, I know that Joe House is a gambling man. And so I have pulled out the odds for the future potential landing spots for Kauai. Oh, I love this. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you, I want to go through this with you. So the favorite, you could probably guess the favorite. The Los Angeles Lakers, he has expressed an interest to come to Los Angeles. I don't blame him. It's wonderful here. I told you, you should move out here. Lakers minus 180 favorites to land Kauai Leonard. What do you think about maybe him teaming up with LeBron here?

Well, I will not indulge the LeBron talk, but I will indulge Kauai and some other superstar, you know, in kind of brand recognition, like Paul George, like a Paul George. That I will indulge. minus 180. Wow. Those are, those are, what can the Lakers give back to San Antonio to make it worth San Antonio's while? Because San Antonio has some real leverage here. I think it would have to be, yeah, well, they do and they don't, because on the one hand,

with Kauai, his contract is up next year. So wherever he ends up going, he's going to have to probably convince that team that he would at least consider. you're staying there because otherwise, you know, why are you going to trade for Kauai, right? Like if you are, say, the Sons, the Sons said that they won't trade the number one pick in a Kauai dealer or a deal of that ilk because what's the likelihood of Kauai going to Phoenix and being like, yep, this is for me. Conversely, the Lakers, they'd have a great shot to keep him. So I think if you're the Lakers, that might be one of those deals where you'd consider putting

Brandon Ingram in it because you could get Kauai back. And I like Brandon Ingram a lot, but he's not going to. Kauai. Yeah. I mean, if it's Ingram and a pick, then that's a legit starting point for San Antonio in terms of a rebuild. That minus 180 price is too rich. I don't like to pay two to one odds.

It's no good for you. It's too rich. You like to find a good deal. You like to find the advantage in the margins. I want value. You want value. Before we move on from the Lakers, though, one of the things you mentioned, I like the idea of Kauai and PG, but like obviously the rumor de Jure is that it would be

LeBron going with PG. and then if they could potentially add Kauai, that would be interesting. The problem is if you're going to max out Paul George and LeBron this year, next year when Kauai could be available for the max, they wouldn't have the wherewithal of their cap sheet wouldn't be able to handle three max contracts. So somebody would have to take a discount,

and if P.G and LeBron get the max up front, then Kauai would get screwed on the back end. So I just don't know how that would work. But just from a purely academic fantasy, forget about the numbers aspect. If you put those three dudes on the same team, are they like beating the Warriors? Are they still a step behind?

Like where would you match them up with the Warriors? That's a tough one. I don't think they're beating the Warriors because it's a conversation though. Huh? It's a conversation. Well, I'm not even sure if they're beating Houston, to be honest with you. If Houston's able to retain Chris Paul

and if Mabamute comes back and is healthy, I mean, for Houston, them retaining Capella and Chris Paul and Mabha, Mouet, being healthy, they're already built to beat the warriors. We were cheated of the real version of Houston that Houston intended to put out there and conquer the warrior's small D dynasty by way of Chris Paul's hamstring and by not having a healthy Mabah Mute. I mean, that was really, you can't. uh,

oversell how important Luke was defensively on the perimeter. That was supposed to be the answer. And when the entire, uh, team of Houston, that was a, uh, what,

what a, I know the law the takes have already been, uh, delivered on that, that shooting performance by Houston. But that just stuff, it felt like I was watching and I, I hate to liken it,

uh, this way, got college basketball game, where they, they, they only have one offensive, set. I felt like I was watching the University of Virginia in that first round where they only have one offensive set. And if they can't run that one offensive set, they can't score so they

lose. Yeah. The one criticism that I feel like it's appropriate to levy. Now, I know it's game seven, it's however many games. It's probably the most games that James Hardin's ever played in his entire career. But what you're supposed to do when you're a player who goes to the rim and gets fouled, when your team can't make jump shots, you're supposed to go to the rim and get fouled. So you can buckets because the important thing is to control the pace of the game and do whatever you can to put a couple points on the board at a time in any event. I do feel like we were cheat. I feel like the Houston team is really properly built for a finals appearance. And I don't think there's anything wrong with Houston's, you know, just taking the approach and we're going to

run it back. LA's problem with, even with LeBron and Kauai and Paul George is who are the other guys? You have to have eight guys. You need eight. And it's just,

we've seen it. I don't know. You know who didn't have eight guys? Cleveland. Yeah, Cleveland didn't have eight guys. And they got their ass worked. Cleveland had one. The Lakers supporting cast right now

isn't better than the Cleveland's supporting cast, I don't think. Cleveland's supporting cast was absolutely dog shit. But what I'm saying to you is that during the finals, Steve Kerr had mentioned, hey, you know, it's kind of been a weird year for us because after our top four guys, because of our personnel groupings and we've got this weird group of centers, and, you know, we'd change it up based on matchups and health and, you know, the players that are on our roster.

But what he was really saying was after the four guys, it doesn't matter. If you've got the three guys in Kauai and PG and LeBron, after that it doesn't matter, especially defensively, they would be such monsters defensively that I think, like, I'd put them ahead of the rockets in that scenario in terms of challenging the Warriors. I would like to see that happen. I just don't think they're going to be able to fit it cap-wise. And then moving forward, they'd have to sacrifice so many other things.

I want to run through some of these other teams, though, for you. So the Spurs are plus 500, the second best odds to keep Kauai. I don't buy that. The next best odds, Clippers. Why? Why don't you buy that? I kind of like, that starts to feel like value to me. Five to one for him to stay with a team that has contractual rights to him? Maybe.

I think he wants out. I think they're going to. But what if they say, guess what, pal? You have a contract. This is the mistake that Cleveland made last season. As soon as Kyrie expressed his intention to be traded, they indulged that and then screwed them. Cheated themselves of a real market from my perspective.

And that had the effect of them taking on the Celtics poo poo platter, which, as we all know, now there's no way that Cleveland could have forecasted that it was going to go as badly as it went. But there was a lot of. indicators that it was going to not go good for Cleveland. Didn't go good. I think Cleveland would have been much better suited off saying, okay, we hear you, Kyrie. We'll think about it. You're going to come play.

You're in a contract. We're going to play this season. You play for us. This is our team. We're going forward with you. We understand your request here and we'll consider it. Yeah, I mean, if he's definitely walking, though, so you'd have to at least think about it up through the trade deadline, right?

because keeping in post-trade deadline. Precisely. That's a lot of time, especially in the NBA. It's like five lifetimes. That's true. A lot can happen between now and next season's trade deadline. Clippers come in at third at plus 1,000 along with the cavaliers at plus 1,000. In that scenario, I don't know if the plus 1,000 cavaliers still have LeBron or don't.

I think if you're Kauai though and you're trying to leverage a move to Los Angeles and you end up on the Clippers, that's like careful what you wish for. That's kind of a bummer. That would be very funny. I would really laugh a lot at that. Here's the, I'm not betting that one. I do like the Cleveland one a little bit.

I think this is the one I like the most, and it makes me want to pull my hair out. Plus 1,200 Celtics. They've got so many assets to move. Yeah, it's true. I mean, they're legit. It made me very upset. Jonathan Charks article last week on the Celtics ability to,

to persuade LeBron to come. And it just makes too much sense. This is the thing. I, I effing, hate the Celtics. I mean, it is now, it's not really because of the rivalry. It's just old DNA hate, right? Because of, you know, in the 80s, I grew up rooting against them. My beloved bullets could never get over top of the Celtics.

And then, you know, it was up in New England for college, all those mass holes surrounding me, you know, seriously. And now they've, they've so perfect. perfectly constructed this team. I mean, honestly, here's really interesting thing. I wouldn't be surprised. I feel like Kyrie Irving expendable to the Celtics. I mean, it could be. He never plays a full NBA season. Need him for the playoffs, not playing in the playoffs. Kind of an expendable resource with all the young talent that they have under contract. Yeah. And he's up for another massive deal. And you've got, I mean, look, this is the happy problem for the Celtics when you can consider, hey, would me maybe move, Kyrie, or would we maybe move Gordon Hayward or, I mean,

I think the one guy who's, if you're going to talk about like untouchable, I don't think any of them are untouchable, but if you were going to talk about one guy who is probably close to, it's probably Jason Tatum just because you have a lockdown. But then you've also got Jalen Brown. And then on top of that, you've got potentially four first round draft picks next season, plus the cadre of picks that come after it. Danny Aange, look, I am with you. I am not a Celtics fan.

I've spent time in Boston, I've lived and worked in Boston. I have friends from Boston. It drives me fucking insane that they're this good and that they're this set up. And then they can look at Kauai and go, yeah, we could put together a better package than literally anybody else in the NBA. But also, they don't have to. If they decide that the price is too rich, they could go, we're set as is. I mean, they're set up and it drives me nuts. It's very hurtful.

It's very hurtful. The only thing you can root for is that sometime the mileage on Al Horford's going to catch up with him. He really had a truly all-star season. He was the glue that hold the whole thing together. He was the fulcrum. And he made it possible for all those young guys to really go find themselves. That was all Al Horford. He should be a coach. I mean, he's he's got the disposition. I don't know if his communication skills off the floor or as good as they are on the floor, but that guy's got a superior basketball IQ. Yeah, he's a good dude too. Last one for you. Plus 1,500, my Philadelphia is 76ers.

I would love to see him on that team. I don't know how they're going to pull it off. I don't know if you've heard this. Thanks to the ringer.com, they don't have a general manager right now. I don't know who's. I don't know who's picking up the phone to make this deal with the Spurs.

But let's say that as of yet unnamed general manager, I know that Elton Brand and Mark Eversley have been doing a lot of handling the GM duties along with Brett Brown while they're searching for a replacement. but in a vacuum here, would you trade, say, Fultz, Dario, and the 10th pick? Immediately. Without hesitation or reservation, as fast as I could get San Antonio to say yes. I would do it too.

I don't think, I don't know. I don't know that San Antonio would do it. I don't know. That's kind of interesting for San Antonio. Why do you not think San Antonio would do it? If I'm San Antonio, I'm looking at it as, I don't know what I'm getting out of the 10th pick, obviously the deeper that you go into the draft, the less certain these players become.

I like Dario. San Antonio. They specialize in that shit. Fair enough. Fair enough. That's right. That's true. Dario,

I like, but he's obviously slow of foot. He would be great in that system. My main reservation if I was San Antonio would be, what am I getting with faults? Like, who is he? I don't know what he is. I don't know what he can do.

I don't know what kind of shape his shot is in. I don't know what kind of shape his head is in. I know what Kauai is. That's a great conversation. Sometimes we have to figure out. Somebody at the ringer needs to really make some inroads over there at San Antonio because their player assessment, I bet, you know, if they look league wide and they adjudged talent and guys that they think will fit with them and work with them and guys they can rehabilitate. They're such innovative thinkers. I'd be really super curious to see what they think about Fultz because he looks to me like very redeemable, an enormous opportunity for reclamation with Fultz.

I mean, you know, a guy just doesn't step on. A rookie doesn't step on the floor and grab a triple double just by F and around. I mean, Tribe Call Quest knows he can't just drop one. It doesn't happen. He's got to go play it out. I'm hoping for the best for him and for the Sixers. All right, two more quick things for you that I wanted to run past you as offseason storylines before I let you go because you're very busy.

You have many podcasts. Did you see this Zach Lowe story on ESPN that the basketball tournament, which is like a $2 million prize of teams put together like a summer. of former NBA players and college players and they play for basketball for money for a purse. They have this new format. Did you see this format that they were messing around? No, I didn't see it. Okay. So this is a proposal that is being talked about in NBA circles. The way that it works in the basketball tournament and that they're going to use this year and that the NBA has like just looked at is at the end of games with under four minutes to go,

they shut off the shot clock and the clock itself. And what they do is that they do is that they just add seven points to whoever's leading. So let's say the score at the time with under four minutes is 70 to 67. They add seven points. So you would play the game to 77 points and that's the end of the game. No clock. Yeah. What do you think about that?

So it would mean no overtime, but it would also potentially mean like every game could potentially have like a quote unquote buzzer beater. And you'd probably eliminate, not probably, you would eliminate the need for, you know, putting people on the line and just like automatic fouling. Well, this is the thing.

The first thing that comes to mind, I absolutely love the creative thinking here. What it makes making a basket so important that I would be concerned about, I'd really wanted to have confidence in the refs because the real incentive is if you're, if you're defensive team, is to immediately start like playing as rough and aggressive. as possible because you just can't give up any points, especially if you're down by anything. So I think like the game could change from a certain sort of tempo and a certain way of being played to like just a knockout, like an old 90s version of the NBA, the Knicks and the heat, you know, Jeff Van Gutty holding on to a leg kind of basketball. So you really want to know

who your rest are and that you can trust those rest to call the game nice and tight. and keep the teams from playing the bully ball thing. That would be, that's my gut reaction. But I really love it. It's really wonderful. I'm less bullish on it than you, unless you can guarantee me, Jeff Van Gundy, attached to somebody's leg, and then I'm in. Last one for you.

Did you see Jordan Bell in the Warriors parade where Jordan Bell ran out of Henny and got off the bus? Did you see this? I did. Okay. So my question for you, I love this. He was having a great time. My question for you is Joe House is at the campaign.

is at the capitals parade. He's on the float. He runs out of Henny. He sees somebody in the crowd. And somebody is offering him Henny. Are you drinking some random dudes, Henny? A thousand percent. I mean, I'm the wrong guy to ask.

I have a lifelong history. I'm the guy that goes around at a wedding. And there's still food on the plates, all the prepared plates. Everybody, it's time for the dance floor. People at my table have food still sitting on their plate. I'm having that. There's food on a, there's a plate sitting over there.

at a kind of an empty station because the waiters brought it out but didn't realize that nobody was sitting there. That's my plate. I mean, I'm the worst. I'm a leftover table. I'm a leftover. I'll eat. I would eat.

I offered, I was in Raleigh, North Carolina. My family and I, I ordered a pizza that was way too big for, for the three of us. There was still half of pizza. Some young folks came up.

I said, this is half of a pizza that hasn't been touched. Now, they didn't eat it, but if it had been me on the other side of that, it was great. my appetizer is this delicious pizza that's been here already already ready only 10 minutes been outside let's let's have it i love it i love that you're offering food but again like just

finding random food i think you need to like how many shots of penicillin have you had in your life um i'm knocking on wood i mean the answer's you know whatever was required when i was a child since then i've been lucky all right make sure to live life dangerous i like to live life delicious, Wangan. Yes, you did. And other people's food can be delicious. Yes, you do. And that's why you have your own food podcast called House of Cars.

Make sure to listen to him on that. And also, Shack House coming off the U.S. Open, he has many hot Phil Mickelson takes. You want to make sure you check out Shackhouse. Appreciate you, Wangan. You're the best buddy. Talk to you soon. All right. That was Joe House.

He's excellent. Before we get to Tate and Riley, a word from our sponsors. Today's ringer NBA show, Heat Check is brought to you by ADT, is your home and ADT home. If not, get ADT and help protect against break-ins, fire, carbon monoxide, and for a limited time only get ADT's lowest rates starting at just 2899 a month from the most trusted name and home security. That's just a dollar a day. ADT is the first security company to help keep you safe at home and when you're on the go with the new ADT Go app. Not to mention, ADT Go also offers a family locator, private messaging, automatic check-ins, and safe driving

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and for writing you need to sit. They go hand in hand, and Burrow hooked us up. So go customize your own Borough and get $75 off your order by going to burrow.com slash NBA. That's Burrow, B-U-R-R-O-W.com slash NBA for $75 off your purchase. Burrow makes a luxury couch for real life. And now, let's bring in Tate and Riley. He's heating up. All right, joining me in the studio. First time ever. What is your title here technically?

Assistant editor. Assistant editor, Riley McAtee is here. Also, Chief Supreme Kings fan, Riley McAtee, I think, is in the title. And now a repeat offender. He's been on the heat check before. He's one half of the one shining podcast. Tate Frazier is here. I'm an assistant to the editor.

Assistant to the editor. I haven't quite gotten to the next level. I'm trying to get where Riley is. Multiple podcast host. So I ran into your other half. I won't say the better half. You're the better half. The Ohio half of the One Shining podcast.

I ran into him outside of the stadium before, I think game four. And we talked, we did a video together. But he doesn't show up on the podcast. He couldn't be bothered. No. Could not be bothered. I don't even know what he's doing today. Probably nothing.

Yes, absolutely nothing. Feed up. Guarantee is nothing. Yes. Yelling about the NBA. Watching Pacers games or doing whatever he does in his free time. I'm not sure. He doesn't.

He doesn't like the NBA as much. He likes college basketball, but that's why I wanted to have you guys on because Thursday is college basketball, kickoff season. In the NBA, we've got the NBA draft. It's very exciting time. We've got all kinds of stuff happening on the ring. We're going to have a live show. But it's interesting for you, Riley, because you are right at the nexus of a lot of rumors happening in the NBA. You've got Kauai potentially being rumored, Sacramento being interested in Kauai.

And then also the number two pick. It's very exciting for the Sacramento fans. Yeah, interesting is one word for it. I'm very anxious, very nervous. It looked like it was going to be easy with Phoenix making a selection and then us picking one of the two guys who wasn't their pick and now there's no end to the rumors. Let's start with Kauai.

Yeah. Do you want, you should want Kauai. The problem is does Kauai want Sacramento? You don't want Kauai. You're shaking your head at me. Too much pressure. If he's going to resign, yeah, obviously I want Kauai, but he's not going to resign in Sacramento.

So let's pass. Let's get somebody who we can keep. for four or five years. This is a reasonable sacto take because I want nice things for Sacramento. I've been there quite a few times for work purposes. You're right. He's not resigning there. Like if you're Kawhi Leonard, you're not going to be like, you know where I'm going to resign.

With Vladi Divac. Yeah. Give me like all the Sacramento I can handle. I trust Vlad to find all the talent that I need, even though I've been complaining about this for a couple years because I can't, you know, draw free agencies to San Antonio, but they want to go to Sacramento. That's what he's thinking, right? I'm hoping.

I mean, look, it would jumpstart their team, but I just don't... For one year. For one year. And then, like, what's the likelihood? So I'm with you. I think he probably doesn't go there. Let's, let's, but just for fun, let's think, like, okay, they're going to make the trade. Would you trade the two and Deerrin for Kauai?

You'd have to get some assurances, right? Yeah, I need to talk to Kauai and at least understand that I can convince them that Sacramento is a beautiful place. We should call him. Kyle, call Kauai right now. Let's talk to me. Let's get him on the phone. Let's figure it out. I want that to happen.

Wait, so, like, he wouldn't have commitment, right? He wouldn't say, like, I'm definitely doing it. But if he said to you, I'd consider it. If he gave you, like, a man, maybe. I mean, that wouldn't be enough for me. I'm also in love with Luca Donchich, but, you know, I would need Kauai to be like, I'm all in. I'm here for Vladie.

I'm here for Sacramento. And he's not going to say that. So you don't want to do the Sam Presti deal where you bring in Paul George for a mercenary season, basically. No, because Presby had an MVP to pair up with Paul George, and he could say, hey, we'll make a run right now. Obviously, it didn't work out that way, but Sacramento's not making a run. If they bring in Kawhi, what do they win, like 45 games? I don't know. You have Harry Giles coming back.

There's so much excitement in technical. I hope they can figure it out. That's tough. All right, well, let's go through. We have Theringer.com's NBA draft guide. You can find that at NBA draft. Theringer.com. You can also go to our homepage and find the gang did some really good work with Charks and Chow and KOC and also

Roger Sherman has been involved. and Mark Titus has thrown some stuff in there. But let's assume that everybody, what we know about the draft, is correct, that the sons are going to keep it. DeAndre Aiton goes one. Boom, the Kings are on the clock. Take it away, Riley McAtee.

I'm taking Donchich. No doubt about it. I think he's just a creative score. He's like an all-time passer. And he has so much hardware from the international game. The shot is a little spotty, right? It comes as a goes. It's been going recently.

It's plummeted recently. like his numbers have, but over the long term, he's been pretty good. He's got a great step back. He can get to the rim. He can see guys to create offense. I really think he's just like, who will take your team to the next level.

What about footwork-wise? He looks like a little slow sometimes. There's no reservations. You're already all the way in, I can tell. Okay, yeah. He doesn't have, like, the athleticism to wow you, like some of these other guys at the top of the draft that make his ceiling a little bit lower.

But we see lots of guys who don't have maybe the top-top-tier athleticism. become all-stars and superstars in the NBA all the time. And what this guy's already done in Europe indicates to me that his ceiling is as high as anybody's. My favorite thing about the whole Luca talk is that everyone is putting it on Vladi, as if just because Vladi is a European basketball, he's supposed to know if Lucas for real. You know, everyone's like, this is Vladi's chance, you know, to let everyone know that he understands European basketball.

And poor Vladi is like, I mean, I got Bagley that I can pick from. I got Jackson, I got Porter Jr., possibly. My question to you as a Kings fan, I mean, there's been all these rumors about, you know, Michael Porter Jr. Obviously didn't do the workout. He's kind of like been back and forth. We don't know how healthy he is. But it seems like a king's pick for them to take Michael Porter Jr.

Number two and for everyone to freak out and get excited and say, hey, we may have gotten the best player in the draft. But then he has a Harry Giles type situation possibly where he sits out the full year. Would you be upset if they took Michael Porter Jr. And he didn't play next year and they just play for the long game? I mean, I'm not upset if they play for the long game at all. Because they're young. Last year's draft was great.

You know, you get those four guys coming in. And it was good to see all those college guys, you know, from big programs. go there and it kind of rejuvenated everyone, I think, a little bit. So they did Michael Porter Jr. And they just go young. That's why the Kauai thing I don't like, because I rather than just stay young, go young. I mean, I guess... It's working great for them for the last 12 years or however many years it's been.

It's going great. You can't rush these things. Take your time. All right, so you like Luca on our ringer.com draft board. We have Marvin Bagley, the third, going there. He's a Duke product. Take that part out of it. Just tell me what kind of player he is Tate Frazier.

He is a springy basketball player. He can jump up and gets the basket easily. He is what he's saying, everyone's calling him a tweener, but what I say about Marvin Bagel was he's 6-11. Somehow he's become Jololokovore. Mark Titus and I've talked about this a little bit, that somehow he keeps getting compared to Jololokovir as if he's slow and it's not going to be able to do some...

That is all the red flags. As a Sixers and a Philadelphian, that is all the red flags. They couldn't even get the first syllable out, and I'd be like, nope, out. If you're just starting to form the word jaw in your mouth, I don't want any part of it. And I think it's crazy because he's nothing like Jololokovore. I think he's so athletic. I think, like I said, he's a very springy basketball player.

He gets up and down. And a lot of people going into the season said that he was going to be the number one pick. So I don't understand how he's fallen so far out of favor with some people. It seems to me that if you get Marvin Bagley and you have Scow and you have Harry Jowes and you have that young front cord, you can really build something nice there. So I do like Bagley. I don't like that he keeps talking about how he's a great defender, but he's still learning. You can't say I'm great, but I still want to learn.

You know, that's a contradiction. So I'm hoping that he goes in and someone's like, hey, Marvin, you've got to really buy in on defense. You've got to be our guy on the back end, be a rim protector for us. He played a lot of zone at Duke, didn't he? Well, Duke didn't play defense last year. That's the other thing with Bagley. Everyone's like, he's a bad defender. It's like, no, they just played zone.

Coach Kay didn't want to teach him how to play man-a-man defense. So also on The Ringer.com, Kevin O'Connor has a take that I wanted to run past you, too. Kevin O'Connor made the case for Wendell Carter, Jr., you're over Marvin Bagley the third. Part of it was defense and that Wendell Carter is supposed to be the better defender. You're shaking

your head immediately. You're not buying KOC's take. Well, it just makes me nervous to think that we might draft Marvin Bagley at number two, and it turns out he's not even the best player on his own team. On Duke? Yeah. And, you know, we could have maybe gotten like five different guys who might be better than Marvin Bagley. Yeah, it'd be like if the Celtics

took Luke Knard number three last year, and Jason Tatum, you know, goes number whatever, to the Pistons number 12 for the Pistons. That would have been better for the Pistons. Yeah, that would be great for the Pistons. It'd be great for SVG. Probably still be there at this point. But I think Carter, the interesting thing to me about Carter is that he didn't shoot a lot

of dude. They didn't let him, like basically run the offense through him. I think he only took more than 10 shots, like five or six times the entire season. So there is some excitement there. But if I'm the Kings and I like Carter more than Bagley, why don't you just trade back? Yeah. Because you can get Carter at 7 to 8 range.

That's how I feel about Michael Porter, too. That's how I feel about a lot of these guys. It's just, it's like trading back. Yeah. He doesn't want to have the number two pick. Let him go back and let him get a guy that's talented and everyone's like, hey, he did it with the value. You know, maybe he gets some nice people to write some nice blogs about him and say how great a job he did for once. And Voughty's had two drafts as the general manager in Sacramento and he's traded back in the first round.

Both of them. So he could easily do that. He's stressed out right now. He's all about value. He's chained smoking Eastern European cigarettes. He doesn't know what's going to happen. You mentioned Michael Porter Jr. We have him four on our list.

A lot of health concerns with him. You've seen him a couple of times, but not enough to really. Nobody really knows what he can be, right? There's more hype about Michael Porter Jr. than there's actual evidence that he's going to be any good. How do we feel about him? I will say this about Michael Porter, Jr. I bought in, I believed in him.

I watched the Jordan Brang game when he was in high school, and I was like, I like this guy. I remember Steve Ballmer came on Bill's Pod and was talking about this kid from, you know, Washington that he fell in love with and was so talented and he believed in. And then I watched him at Missouri, and I'm like, I'm not sure this guy knows how to play.

basketball. Like what is going on here? He looks like he should be, you know, great at basketball, but he looks lost out there. Somehow his brother Jonte looked better than him and, you know, more polished, Jonte decides to go back to Missouri. And now Michael's in this weird position now where he's kind of moving up draft boards, but other teams and doctors are saying that, you know, they're worried about the hip. That's the big thing now. We're worried about his hip. It's not just his back. So when you hear multiple issues, that scares me away from him. I think if you have a top five pick, I would not waste it on Michael Porter Jr. right now. Yeah, when we were sitting at seven before the lottery.

I was hoping that he could fall to us. Because I just figure, hey, you take an injury risk on a guy, but his ceiling is as high as anyone's. Why not? Why not take a home run swing? But at number two, no way. Give me somebody who is healthy. Give me somebody who hasn't had back surgery. If the Kings take a injured dude

with massive back problems who barely played college basketball number two, that would be like the most Kings thing ever. I'm rooting for it as a narrative. We've got Sharon Jackson number five and Mo Bamba, number six, two big men. I actually went out and saw Mo Bamba. I wrote a big piece about him for the ringer.com.

He is an exceptionally smart, nice kid. I think, like, you get him on your team, and you know he's going to try hard, and he's going to fit in, and you're not going to have any culture issues. He's adding a shot. It looked pretty good to me. He's working with Johanlon,

who's a guy who helped overhaul Jason Tatum's shot. Jason Tatum went from about a league average projected shooter in college to all of a sudden being one of the best. three-point shooters in the NBA, and then also played great defense. We already know Moamba can play defense. It would be really interesting if Moamba adds a three-point shot. Really interesting. I've been watching the Instagram, Twitter videos that they're putting out of MoMA.

It's like 12 seconds of him just putting up the reason he looks amazing. I'm always a little skittish on those sorts of things, just because anything he can look good in those small amounts of sample sizes, you know. We even have on this list, he's a perimeter of three-point shooting Rudy Gobert. I mean, that sounds pretty good to me. I don't know who wrote that, but that sounds pretty awesome. I'm a little hesitant to buy into the whole three-point shooter thing with Bamba. I do like the fact that he has a 7-10 wingspan.

That's, I mean, that's unheard of. It's a big wingspan. Yeah, like I think we could take that and make something out of him. At the worst, I think you have a position where he could be, you know, a rim-running guy like a Clint Capella and just put him and hopefully he protects the rim and is a good piece for you. Everyone looks great in the gym. Exactly.

Everyone looks great when they're shooting threes against the air. Especially in that gym, right? I mean, like, when I walked in, this is something I put in the piece. So I was like trailing Mo Bamba that day and we were hanging out. And we had multiple sessions at the gym, which is out by LAX. And for the second one, it was just Drew Hanlon, who's the trainer and Mo's mentor, Greerlove and me. And like there might have been like two other people there, very few people.

So afterwards, Moe's shooting just threes, the whole line, right? That was the whole second session. And he goes, man, he looked good. Didn't he drew Hanlon said this to me? And I said, yeah. And he goes, but he's just in a gym by himself, right? And I said, well, yeah. And he goes, didn't the ringer make fun of Joel Embed scoring on a 5-11 white guy in a gym by himself?

And he's like, I was that 5-11 white guy. Joel looks okay right now. I think he's right, though, to a point, like, you have to start somewhere, right? And like, if you can get comfortable with that shot, even if it's in an empty gym, that's better than not having a shot. Yeah, I don't, I think the big thing is I don't want him to fall in love with that jump shot. You mentioned Embedd, I think he said he was trying to mirror his. game a little bit after Embed, which is nice. My biggest knock on Embedd always is that he does fall in love with that jumper a little bit,

even though it is a beautiful jump shot. I love watching him take shots. But sometimes when he's taking threes, you're just like, hey, Joel, can we just get down in the post and maybe, you know, make some things happen? Because you have a Kim Eliduan's moves in the post. Let's see if we can do there. My favorite thing about Bamba is Emeka Okifor. The Harlem New York kids and Emeka has been mentoring him a little bit.

I'm a big fan of Emeka Okrafore. He's a smart basketball player. And I think some of that stuff, if you get some of those little basketball tendencies to rub off on Bomba, you can play early. That could be a good thing for you. Yeah, great for any team at 5 to 6. I'm not taking them at 2. Not taking them a 2.

All right, a couple more here to round out the top 10. Rise are in the draft. Kevin Knox? Yeah, you're just nodding. You're not a Kevin Knox guy. No, I do like Kevin Knox. I think I am just a little stunted by what I saw in Kentucky the NCAA tournament and late in the season.

I mean, he was their guy. He was supposed to be the leading score. I think he ended up averaging about 15 points per game. He didn't shoot as well as I thought he would shoot. I saw him in high school a little bit. I liked his jump shot. He seemed to be overthinking a little bit. A lot of those guys that go into the draft and they're trying to fix their shot and tweak their shot or a little bit in their head, that gives me a bit of concern. But the end of the day, he's a six-nine wing. He has all a talent

in the world. A lot of people project him to be a top five pick. So I believe in Knox. I really just want him to work on that jump shot. And his three-point shooting is like 34 percent, I think, in college last year. And you got to do better than that in the NBA, because a lot of people are shooting on the wings. Yes. Yes. You want wings who can shoot everybody. wants a wing who can shoot. No one wants another MKG situation. You're right, no, that's absolutely even MKG and also Charlotte don't want that. But

I think like if you have a place to start from, right, like to build on because like I said, you had Jason Tatum last year and he's probably an outlier who just all of a sudden went from an average, like hey, he's a scorer, but is he a shooter? To all of a sudden being a shooter if you have a

place where you can start from, that's hopeful. We mentioned Wendell Carter Jr. The last two are super interesting. And this Sixers are picking a 10, so I'm interested to see what you guys think about this. On our draft board at 9 and 10, we have Trey Young and Mikhail Bridges. Two pretty divisive, like, almost Rorschach test guys. There's Trey Young who started, like, he was a very hot name probably this time a year ago, and has since fallen off because he's got some defensive issues.

And, like, also, his body isn't, like, super NBA ready. And then you've got Bridges who has been at Villanova for a long time. What do we think about those two guys? You can knock out Trey if you want to, Riley. Do it. Take Trey Young. That guy is just exciting. He's just excitement. Why not?

I mean, the Sixers need scoring. The Sixers need shooting. He's a guy who can play on or off the ball. As we've seen with their current point guard situations, they are very ball dominant and neither of them can shoot. So he would fit in theory defensively, no pointo. I'm worried about that. But I could say, I mean, look, there's been rumors.

This is interesting. David Griffin, there was a rumor, David Griffin, who has been rumored to be a candidate for the Sixers' GM job. Also then broke news. He's already been penciled in, basically. Everyone's already asking him questions about the Sixers, and he's like, guys, I'm still doing media work. He's one of the names that have been bandied about, but

the other day on Sirius XM Radio, he mentioned a rumor saying that he knows that the Sixers are looking to move up to grab a guy who they think might not be there, and one of those guys could potentially be Trey Young. I would love to see Trey Young to go to a situation like that, just because I think, you know, with

Foltz already being there. You've already got a guy that's kind of had to shoulder so much of the burden of everyone keeping their eyes on him. And then if he comes in, he can basically be exactly what they wanted Foltz to be, which is a shooting guard that can also play point and help out a little bit, which would be nice. I kind of personally want Trey to go to the magic, just because

I want him to go somewhere where it really won't matter. Don't ruin them? I just want him to have the ball in his hands. No one worries about it. You know what I mean? It's basically like, look, we're playing Trey Young Basketball. The magic don't draft people who can shoot. That's very true. I'm sorry.

Shouts to Kevin Clark. I hope it works out for him. It won't. Last one here, Bridges. I mean, this is a guy in Philadelphia who a lot of Philadelphians

are excited about because Philadelphia is like the most provincial place on the planet and he played at Villanova and they go, yeah, man, put him on that team and, you know, he's a guy. He's a champion.

This is perfectly Philadelphia. Like, they see that and they go, yeah, put him on. I wonder he's a little bit older too. He's a little bit older. My favorite thing about McKell Bridges is basically he is Kerry Kittles to me. I feel like he plays the exact same way. I think he's a nice piece to add to a team like the Sixers just because he doesn't necessarily need the ball in his hands to make an impact.

He is a great defender. He's a very smart, savvy basketball player. And as much as I joke about all the Philadelphia people saying they want to have a champion, they do need someone who has a little bit of a pedigree and a little bit chip on his shoulder. I mean, they have all the raw talent, but they need someone that's like, here's a culture I came from a winning culture, and I want to bring that here to the Sixers. I want to play in Philadelphia. I want to buy in here.

the fans will already love him. And I don't know. I think he fits a spot where they do need that wing on the outside where they can trust. And, you know, don't have to, you know, lean on Bellanelli or Ilyos over whoever they bring in off the bench. You get a young rookie like Bridges who will buy in. I like the fit. Waiver wire fodder. Again, I would like to have somebody, yes, that they could keep around for a little bit longer.

And groom for once. And groom, that would be nice. Last question for you, Riley. Thursday night, the draft is over. Who's happier? Sacramento or Philadelphia with their pick. Well, I think probably Philly,

because you guys are already a playoff squad. I'm too nervous to take Sacramento. I know, because you've got a higher pick, but the odds of Sacramento fucking it up are high. And the Sixers don't even have a GM. Who knows who's even making the pick? I'll take the Kings. I honestly believe that they're going to take Donchich.

I know that Bagley is the most popular pick, but I'm drinking the Kool-A. I think they're taking Luke up. If they take Bagley, will you be okay with it? I will take 24 hours to talk myself into it and then I'll be the biggest Marvin Bagley fan You'll have the jersey, you'll be ready You'll wear all kinds of purple

Read Riley McAtee, he's on the ringer.com all the time Listen to Tate Frazier, he's got one shining podcast, GM Street You're on heat check now Yeah, I know, I'm excited to be on heat check I'm going to add that to my resume You're everywhere I want to thank those two guys Want to thank Joe House

It's been far too long since I've talked to him I want to thank Kyle for filling in for Isaac and all of you for listening We will be back next week on heat check. Don't forget live Ringer NBA draft show on Thursday night. It's going to be excellent. We're very excited. We'll see you guys next week.