The Ringer NBA Show - Kendrick Perkins on Bradley Beal, the Nets, and Contenders vs. Pretenders | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

Friend of the show and official Real One Kendrick Perkins joins Logan and Raja to get into why Bradley Beal should ask for a trade from the Wizards (0:45) and whether the Nets can win a championship with this squad and if the team should trade Kyrie (19:30). Finally, they play a game of Contender or Pretender with teams vying for a championship (47:00) and give their Real Ones of the Week (56:45). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Kendrick Perkins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch. Roger Bell. Roger. We had a friend of the show on today. Yes, we had a real one on the show today. Yes, we did. He is a real one. Texas legend. Contending, pretending. Yeah. What's it saying? We got Kendrick Perkins, dog. We got Kendrick Perkins on the show. KP? KP. on the show. You know what I mean? He kind of went. I'm just saying, Oakland, soldiers, legend. Tap into the real ones. We're here. Ah. Let's give a real one. Logan Murdoch here with Roger Bell. Roger, we have a special guest, a friend of the show man here.

Official friend of the show now. Oakland soldiers legend Kendrick Perkins. There you go. Hey, Raj, what's up, what's up, my brother? Look, first off, what's up, Roger, man? Look, I'm happy to be back on the real ones. But look, Logan, you don't have to keep throwing in Oakland in the Bay Area and all this. We already know that.

We know it. throwing it in. So you represent the Bay. We know I play for the Oakland soldiers for one tournament. All right, cool. We get it. One tournament.

See, voices of reason are needed on this podcast. Like, real talk. We need voices of reason. Perk came in here on the throne and day. He's ready to roll. He's locked in. He's coming to war. Let's get right to the shits, man.

One thing that I, you know, we follow each other on Twitter. We got to get Rogers on Twitter. But the thing that I think we both are disgusted with right now is what Bradley Bill is going through in the Washington at the Washington Wizards. Perk, he had 47 last night. Roger, he had 47 last night. Yeah.

It took an L by 18, okay? What? I know that there's loyalty. We always preach loyalty in this game, but when does loyalty run out, Perk? When does it just time for him to just get up out of there, bro? It's now. It's now.

It's almost like staying in a bad relationship. All right. Well, you just giving all your love and your significant others just not loving you back. You only could take so much. It's time for, like, he has given the Wizards,

everything that he possibly can. He has performed at a high level. He's been loyal to them. But look, it's not on nobody. It's on Bradley Bill. It's time for him to step forward. and say, you know what, my time is up, I'm going to demand the trade. I don't know when he's going to do it or when he's going to wear it, but he cannot afford

to waste any more of his prime playing like this at a high level. He's leading the league and scoring at about 35 points of game. Like, at some point, he has to say, you know what? Look, right now, the contender, it's time for a change of scenery. Brad don't wants to be the bad guy. And I get that. but no one is going to look at him any type of way for not for stepping up right now he we're looking at him a certain type of way because we're like what the hell are you doing when are you going to step

for it and say you know what hey i won't out i want out yeah he hey look he's trying to be a good soldier um which was which was appreciated per like but this is why i'm always with the player doing what he's got to do at the end of the day because you would think that an organization who you've like poured your blood, sweat and tears into, would look at themselves and say, man, I can't get this shit right. And I owe it to Bradley Bill to move him. Like just off of like, he's giving us enough opportunity and we cannot get right. We can't get right, boss. But they will not do that. They will sit there and squander all of your shit. So you have to step up. And when the time has come and has run his course, be the bad guy and say, look,

I have to go. And he, I'm with y'all. He, at this point, there's nothing else. that can be said there. Like, don't come talking to me if you're a GM, if you're an owner. Like, just get the trade, like, hotline dialed up and let's get it cracking. Why is there this sense from players sometimes where it's like, yo, I just, I've put tent toes on this. I've been in this community, but I can't leave. Why do they, why does it, why is it to that point early on?

Why do they always preach so loyal to some part? They know, players know how quickly you get painted, in my opinion. Perk, I'll let you follow up, but how quickly the narrative becomes players aren't shit. Like they want what they want. There's too much movement. They get to control their destiny.

Spoiled, should be happy to be playing basketball. That's what the narrative becomes. So we know that, Logan. And so early on, like, you're trying to, you know, make it right for the city you're in and for the team you're on. But there comes a point with everything where enough is enough. Enough is enough. And part of it.

it is, is who's representing you. That's, that's another part of it. Like, people can talk all the shit that they want about Rich Paul. But one thing about Rich Paul, he gives things done for his clients, whether you like it or not. And when he took over for Anthony Davis and representing Anthony Davis, guess what? As soon as he took over and Anthony Davis signed with Club Sports, Rich Paul said, oh no, we got to get you out of New Orleans. We got to get you out of New Orleans. We got to get you to a bigger market, whether that was Chicago, Boston, or L.A. Now, it happened to be L.A., but Boston was in the mix and Chicago was in the mix. Rich Paul was saying, no, A.D., I got to get you to a bigger market.

Not just because I want you to go to a winning place or compete for a title, but I got to look out for your brand, because right now your brand is going to be in with the Pelicans. Okay, two different situations as far as with Bradley Bill. Now, Bradley Bill, you are one of the best two guards in the game today. You have elevated your game.

You are leading the league and scoring. When is your agent going to step up to the plate and say, hey, Brad, it's time. It's time to force your way out. Like, this is what agents are supposed to do. You're supposed to give your players advice so you could put them

in position to be successful. And right now, whosoever represent a Brad is not doing that. I do think that's interesting though, Perk and Logan. I'm interested to kind of hear, you know, from the media side of it when you're covering things like this, right? Because representation and steering a career is one thing. But what Rich Paul also does, in my opinion, is he shields Anthony Davis from all the criticism because he becomes the face of it, right? He becomes the, my, Rich Paul is doing this. he's the bad guy in the equation.

And so AD gets to kind of sit back. Yeah, sure, some people, you know, might have said something. But at the end of the day, most of the vitriol was, at least through the press, was a Rich Paul thing. So, like, that's what I think his agent needs to do. And then in terms of covering that, Logan, like, if you were a writer and the agent was out in front of it versus the player, I would imagine you're writing different stories, right? It doesn't fall on Bradley Beale all the way. Yeah. No, it always, we all know this and you guys know this.

It all depends on honestly who's leaking this information. You know what I mean? Who and why they're leaking this information? I think that's the thing that we have to decipher through as media is, you know, what does this person have to gain from leaking this to me, right? Like if or leaking this type of stuff to the media. But to your point though,

perk, I agree with you with, you know, you have to, um, you have to figure out a way to get up out of here in, in the right way, right?

And honestly, man, it's a different, I feel like it's a different case with Brad and AD just for the simple fact that it's clear that it's just not working in D.C. right now. Like, I was watching the game against the Pelicans last night. And you just feel sorry for Brad, bro. You're just like, please get up out of here. He gets the game down to like 10 points. Then the Pelicans go on a run. There's no one else on that team right now in D.C. that can really pick up the slide.

Another person that I know is near to you is Russell Westbrook. Did you foresee Russell and Brad not working at this level that we're seeing right now? What do you think is going to – what do you think happened with that? Well, here's the thing. I said this, that Russell was going to put that key in Bradley Bill back, and he was going to take a back seat to Brad like he did to Paul George when it was in Oklahoma City, and Paul George was having that MVP season

before he left and went to the clippers. I said this. I said that Brad possibly could lead the league and scoring playing with Russell Westbrook. And he's doing that. Here's the thing that people about Russ. Russ shouldn't be playing right now,

to be honest. He is playing on a torn quad. He tore it last year in the bubble, re-aggraved it in preseason, tried to start the season off doing it, tried to start the season playing on it. And guess what? He re-agravated again.

This is an injury that if you re-agravated, sometimes it requires surgery or it requires you to be out for about eight weeks. He shouldn't. And we're talking about a guy that solely relies on his athleticism to get the job done. If you watch them, people are talking about

he's shooting 30% from the field, or 30% from the 3 and 60% from the Freit-D line. I'm not making excuses for Russ, but he don't have his legs. If you watch him on his pull-ups, he can't even elevate like he used to. That's why his shots are short. That's why, you know, majority of the time, he may be airballing shots and three-point shots like he don't have his legs and he should not be playing.

On top of that, he has a dislocated finger in his right shooting hand. And so I just think Russ is laying it on the line because of his relationship with Scott Brooks. Do you know what I'm saying? And so he don't want to leave Scotty hanging because Scotty's already in the hot seat. But think about it. Thomas Bryant is out for the season. They haven't had Rui Hachamire for the majority of the season. He's been injured.

And Bertons, who they gave the big bag to. he's been a no-show or he's been hurt. So those two guys in particular, those three guys are huge to their success. And when they were playing, Russ was out because of his torn cord muscle. Then they went through the COVID issue. So everything is just happening bad for the Wizards right now,

but Bradley Bill still needs to get the hell out of them. He needs to bounce. And I want to ask for him because I saw a clip. Bradley Bill came out. It was after the timeout. And he just looked like, I don't even know how to describe the way he looked. It was just like.

Deflated. Just completely deflated. That's the best way to put it. But no teammates even approached him, right? Like people just kind of, I get, so my question is as a teammate, Perk, how would Perp feel if you were part of the cast that's left? You can't really help him.

We both got to a point in our career where like, what we could offer the team wasn't going to be enough to get him over to hump. And you see Bill doing what he's doing and we can't win. How are we feeling about him needing to get up out of there? Do we feel the same way

or selfishly you want to keep him on debt? If you real with him, if you real with yourself and everyone has nothing but high praise for Bradley Bill. If you talk to all his former teammates, all the guys around the league, he's a class, that guy,

great guy to be around. You can't be selfish. in that situation. You got to go to Brad and say, hey, bro, as bad as I want you to be here, like, your time is up. Like, we ain't winning nothing. Hell, I'm trying to get up out of hill.

I'm trying to get a bow or whatever the case may be. So that would be my approach. Had that ever happened to you? You ever play on a team where that had to, what that happened? Yeah, I did. And I actually played with Oklahoma City Thunder. When James,

when James actually was going through negotiations with the Thunder and the Thunder offered him like 16. mil and he wanted the max and he deserved the max but he also wanted his own team and at first my selfish ways i was mad at james i was like man come on bro like 60 million you'll go try to get 80 like there's nothing really you could do you can't do with 60 that you could do with 80 like come on man we got some special here but this is perk that already won a championship this is perp that's 27, 28 years old.

That's a role player. James Harden at the time is 22, you know, just one six-man a little year, just left the Olympics. And he wanted his own squad. And I was being selfish to the point where I had to send him a text and said, James, my bad, bro.

Like, my bad. First priority is to get your money. This is a job. Go get your bread. Go get your lettuce. Secondly, you're right, bro. If you feel like you could go and take over a franchise and be that number one guy, who am I to try to tell you or hold you back from doing that?

I mean, one, that's real. And what do you, how do you feel in that dynamic, right, where the team is just, and this isn't even the Oklahoma City Thunder, but when the team is just not functioning right, and you have that feeling of, man, I got to get up out of here, but you still got to play. What is the dynamic there? I'll start with you, Roger.

What is the dynamic there where you still got to play, but you know this is not where I want to be? That sucks. That's about as tough as it comes as a professional. It puts your feet to the fire as far as you being a professional in a class act in an organization, right? Because that's your job. And so the way I approached it, Logan,

to the best of my ability was, you know, I would deal with my age. in terms of strategizing about whether we're going to be here long term, what this is going to look like, you know, around the trade deadline. And I would let him handle that because my job was to be there for Perk and for Logan and for Sasha and like in the effort to win and the coach, like we got to be in this together. And real talk, if I'm doing a good job and really a professional and we're, you know, keeping this together, I become more attractive to other teams by doing that, you know?

So, like, that's really the way I approached it. Like, I got to compartmentalize again and be about my business, be a professional, and then let my agent and them take care of, you know, what's going to happen in terms of facilitating them move out of here. So do you, do you feel along those lines? And how does it get messed up, perk, when, you know, guys don't see that, when they don't see that, yo, I still got to be a professional here. Maybe not, you know, a big-time player like AD, but, like, someone that's low-key trying to get up out of there. how important is them for them to be a professional in that in that way?

What the key is with me is it runs deeper than for yourself, right? You want to, you for that particular moment, shall I say, because you want to be a professional because you just never know towards the tail end of your career what's going to happen in that same organization that you were showing the lack of professionalism with. They might be that same organization that might need. you at one point of time. It might want to bring you back. Might want to bring you back in the front office.

Might want to bring you back as a coach. You just never know. Or even as a media guy. So you never want to burn that bridge. But also, you never want to mess it up for the next generation. See, this is the thing that I, this is the problem that I have with a lot of guys right now that's in the NBA and how they act, right? You look at guys like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Azeel Thomas, all those guys that played in the 80s, 70s, 90s, they paved the way for us right now and guys today to be making hundreds of millions of dollars, all right?

$30 a year, $40 a year and stuff like that. And when you see guys like James Harden act the way he did with Houston, it just raised an eyebrow to the the owners and they're going back and saying, you know what, this next CBA, we need to talk about some things. Matter of fact, we might be paying them too much money. And you don't want to mess it up for the younger generations, right, the younger generation of kids that's playing at AAU, that's playing high school basketball, that's playing, you know, any type of basketball want to reach the NBA, you don't want to mess it up for them. You want them to be getting $300 million country.

tracks because you acted accordingly on and showed them that hey us as as kids that come from the hood or whatever when you pay us top dollar we know how to act and i and that's why i give a lot of praise to a guy like lebron james because it's plenty of times that he could have went off the deep end he could have said certain things but he know it's bigger than him the kid growing up in the hoods of afton Ohio from the bricks. He said, you know what? I'm not going to mess it up for my son, for his children,

his children children's who have goals on making it to the NBA. Yeah. No, that's real. That's real. I mean, what were you saying, Roger? Go ahead. No, listen, it is real.

And I'm going to double down on what he said again because I believe that those owners are not sitting back loving what is happening. Like, you have to know that they are, they feel like they are stuck they are they are billionaires and most of the time the billionaire tag comes with huge ego and accomplishment and they don't like having shit dictated to them and if you if you rub their nose in it like the next time it comes around the collective bargain it comes around they're going to try to take away whatever leverage they can in negotiation and all it takes to to perks point is

just being a professional about your about your stuff yeah man for sure um talking about you brought up James Harder, and I think that's a great segue perk into our next discussion point, which is the Brooklyn Nets. The Brooklyn Nets, the last time we talked, James had a trade demand, but he was still in Houston. Now he's in Brooklyn, alongside

Katie and K.D. and Kyrie Irving, they're five and two since the trade happened. What have been your initial impressions of that trade? Do you think that it's, it's, that the Brooklyn Nets are a fully finished product, because I don't? No, that's not at all. And I know they had to give

up a lot in order to get James Harden, I get that. But I still to this day, and I'm standing by it, that I really thought they dropped the ball by getting rid of Jared Allen. They underappreciate what he bought to the table, a

live thread, a rim protector. Guys, you know, with Jared Allen in the paint, guys were scared to go in there because they're always looking over their shoulder. I'm looking at this team, and I'm trying to figure it out. when are they going to step up to the plate

or if they have the personnel to step up to the plate and defend? Because look, you can have all the offensive firepower that you want. But we all know that defense win championships. And when you look at those Golden State Warrior team when they was making them runs, yes, they had offensive firepower,

KD, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, they had all that. But guess what? The Golden State Warriors was top five defensively in every category. So with that being said, I just, I'm watching that game last night against the Hawks. And the Hawks pretty much was getting whatever they wanted, when they wanted. It's just that the Brooklyn Nets had the firepower just to overcome that. But when you get in a game, when you have to go against a team like the Boston Celtics,

who also have perimeter defenders and guys that's going to defend and also guys that could get buckets. Are you going to be able to sustain and beat a Boston Celtic team in the seven-game series? And right now, the answer is no because of their defense.

Like, you could get your career highs. Colin Sexton just showed us that. Bam, just showed us that. That if you go against the Brooklyn Nets, you could be, you could be, prepared to go in there put up big numbers. Yeah, a team trying to win a championship, that should never be the narrative. And to look, I did like a decade's worth of research on that.

And every team that's won a championship, and it's probably rings true further back than that, but I only had time to go back about 10 years, has been top 10 in offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency. Right now, Brooklyn is 24th in the league in terms of defensive efficiency. usually those teams are top five in either offense, a defensive efficiency, and then top 10 in the other. So they're phenomenal at one and well above average in the other. Brooklyn is well below average defensively. It is going to be a problem.

It's going to be a problem when you come up against those teams that can match you in terms of offensive output. You are rolling the dice every time you go out there in a series if you do not have any defensive backbone. And right now they don't have that. And I think it's personnel driven. Like, you know, like it may be, and I don't know this for a fact, but it also could be they focused on offense. Like, I say this a lot. When you get a big three, all the focus shifts to how do they work offensively together.

That's the whole narrative. Like, that's all anyone talks about shit. That's all we talk about. How is Kyrie going to fit with James Harden? How does James Harder and Kyrie and Kevin Durant all eat at the same time? Well, what no one is talking about is who's going to fucking defend. And so, you know, as a coaching staff, all of your focus. focus may shift to that, but I also think it's personnel driven. And I'm with perk. If they don't,

if they don't get that shit right, they're pretenders in my book. Like they're going to be good. There'll be a tough out because they can score. But at the end of the day, like, you don't get out. You don't win a championship. What about the, I know his defense, defense all literally wins championships. What about the argument that the teams with the best players are just going to figure it out? Do you buy that perk where they do have, they do have Kyrie, they do have James Hard and they do have Kevin Durant. They have two MVP. he's there and a guy that's won a title. Do you think that that wins out just from a talent perspective?

Look, this is what I'm going to say. And this is the thing that's disturbing to me. You have Kevin Durant, who's a two-time NBA champion, a two-time finals MVP. You have Kyrie Irvin. That's the champion. You have James Harden that has been to the promised land. He didn't win, but he knows what it take from his Oklahoma City

days and his rocket days. He's playoff battle. And you have a guy like Jeff Green, who's also battle tested. And DeAndre Jordan, this is not a young group of guys that you're putting together. These are vets. And so they know that it comes within. They have their, look, they have their veticism to go down on the offensive end and do what they do. They could translate that and go down on the defensive end and put together stops

and defend at a high level if their mental is right. So to me, it's about accountability. Is Steve Nash going to hold these guys accountable? Are there in film room? Is he pointing out to James Harden? Hey, look, you got to get up over that screen. Karie, that was your sink and feel.

When DeAndre Jordan went to go help, it's no reason this guy should have got the rebound. You got to dig into his legs. Kevin Durant, don't give up middle, you know, Don't give up this middle drive. You know you're supposed to force him baseline. Does he have their respect? And watching them, to me, the answer is,

hell, no, he don't have the respect because they're letting teams do whatever the hell they want. So if this was a young, if I could go, if I went to a young Oklahoma City Thunder team with James Russ, Sergei Baca, and Katie were what, what 21, 22 years of age, and I got them to buy into defense because we were top five defensively when we were making those playoff runs, there's no reason that they should be elevating their game on the defensive end of the ball.

Perg. I mean, I go back and forth on this. I'd like to think, you know, haven't heard some of their comments about, you know, we'll do this by committee. One night, it'll be James's night. One night, it'll be Kyrie's night. one night, it'll be Kevin Durant's night. If they're at a mature place like that and bought in,

I tend to think it can work. I just don't know that they're at that place. Like, what does Perg say? I watch Kyria at times, and I'm, again, what he does with the ball is maybe top five that I've ever seen in person. It's really silly like that. But I wonder at times if it's going to be the night

where Kyria's like, nah, this is my shit. I'm good. And that's all it would take to throw it upset it. Well, from what I saw, from what I've been witnessing, is that that's what Kyrie is on. Like, he's not taking the backseat to no one. And I think his first game with the Brooklyn Nets, he let us all know that by his performance.

I'm going to say this. James Harden is sacrificing. James Hardin is sacrificing. I'm watching James Hardin make extra passes on the offensive end. To me, Kevin Durant, they don't need him to sacrifice. We're talking about arguably the greatest score that ever touched the damn basketball. If he starts sacrificing, I got a problem with him.

Because he's the best player on the team. He's the best score on the team. He's the most efficient score on that team. So with that being said, it's going to have to go down to Kyrie and James Hardin, and sacrificing and not to back down to Kevin to rent, but to make sure that Joe Harris feels involved, to make sure that Jeff Green feels involved,

to make sure that Bruce Boyne, Bruce Brown, yeah, Bruce Brown, Bruce Brown, not Bruce Boyd, Bruce Brown, DeAndre Joyden. So make sure these guys have their confidence, because we all know that no matter how much star power you have, I play with a big three, role players help you win games in the playoffs. Every role player is going to help you win the game on your way to try to win the championship. Period.

Yeah. No. But the thing is what, and this is a, we haven't talked to you since this happened when Kyrie left the team. And do we think, or do you guys think that, you guys weren't to have to have to have to know, do you think that this is a recurrent? thing or do you think that this is going to this is this was just a one time thing and this is the the nets are going to be back

and we don't have this isn't something that we have to worry about. You go here, Raj. I want to hear what you got to say first. I've said this before. I thought that the net should have had a response. I understand because Kyrie is

such an interest in personality why the Nets didn't come out and do something organizationally in terms of a suspension or something for him just to because here's the deal in my opinion you have Steve you got a new coach and staff and you got to you have to have respect perk just talked about do they have enough respect for Steve um to do what he wants them to do if you let him leave like that come back not miss a beat shoot 29 damn shots in his first game back and you haven't had a response as an organization other than to say oh yeah we support kairi like

I think it's just open the door for them to do whatever they want. Like, I don't know how anyone respects anyone there now. Like you are now, you're saying, hey, man, y'all can basically do whatever the hell you all want and we'll just be here waiting when you come back to the reservation. I don't agree with that. I thought the Nets and Steve needed to have a response to that shit and nip it in the bud. Don't let it fester. I thought not only Chicago Rehab been fine,

but he should have been suspended by the team. because it sets a tone and says, we're not going to tolerate this. We're developing a culture. We're trying to win a championship. You as an individual is not bigger than what we're trying to accomplish. That's number one.

Also, I think what the Brooklyn Nets did, everyone was thinking, yeah, they went on here and got James Hardin because the Rockets finally made the push. No, the Brooklyn Nets wanted to make the push also because they needed James Hardin, as an insurance policy because we're not even 20 games

into the season, and Kyrie Urban just dips without giving anybody an explanation or anything. Steve Nash didn't even know. Sean Monks didn't even know. So with that being said, who's to tell us?

Who's to tell us that when things get tough, it's the first round of the playoffs? What if Kyrie dips again? So with that being said, I feel like as a whole, we don't trust Kyrie. And I feel like the Brooklyn Nets don't trust Kyrie. So they had to say, you know what?

Since we don't know what's going on through his mind, how about we trade for James Hardin. So at least we have us a duo in Kevin Durant and James Hardin. That way, if Kyrie does one off, we still have a fighting chance. Logan, will you please tell Perk what my position was? And you laughed and I got it. Like, I got it. But what's my position been from day one on this shit as soon as James Hardin showed up?

What's my position been? Trade Kyrie Irving has been his position for the last two weeks. Yeah, like ever since the trade, it's been okay, now the time to trade Kyrie Irving. Perk, I'm not saying that he's not dope. I'm saying if you can get in return a Allen-type. some complimentary pieces to Kevin Durant and James Hardin. You have enough offensively to win a championship regardless. You don't need Kyrie.

You need the other pieces to support that shit. I've been on that. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I will go out on the limb and say, if you could trade Kyrie and possibly get back a JJ Reddy, a Josh Hart, guys who are, going to come in and buy into their roles, right, and fit in.

J.J. Reddick, a sniper. You had two snipers on the long side of K.D. and James Harder, like a Joe Harris and a JJ Reddick, that's all you need. You need to upgrade your roster, upgrade your bench. You need to get you a big man. Hopefully they can land Javel McGee, right? So I'm with you because I strongly believe without Kyrie, the Nets can win the East without Karee.

Now, here's the question. Can they win it all with Karee? And that's the scary part because to me the answer is no. Hmm. What? We're going to get, we got to, in the second, we're going to get to contenders and pretenders with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, with, what is the right way to do what kary did in a sense of, okay, you're going through some things, right?

Okay, internally you say you're going through some things and you need some time to yourself. I mean, that's what's out there, Perk. I'm just, I'm throwing them a bum. Right. What is the right way to go about doing that if you are feeling this certain type of way during the season? Well, first of all, on a serious note, we all know that mental health is real, okay?

We know that the NBA is big on that. And at that particular moment, we were going through something in America that we have never witnessed in our lives or in the history what they was doing at the state capitol. Okay? So when Kyrie did walk away, me knowing and seeing how involved Kyrie is in the community and within social justice, I actually tweeted out and said, I don't mind Kyrie walking away for what we're going through right now in the world. I don't mind any player that needs a break right now for what we're going through if they need time off.

But it's not what you do is how you do it. Inform your team. Inform your teammates that, hey, I need a mental break. I'd rather not talk about what it's about, but I need a mental break right now. and I wish y'all granted to me because mentally I'm not there. Mentally, I need to focus on something else. And I guarantee you Sean Marks and Steve Nash would have said,

all right, Kyrie, do what you got to do. But to see Kyrie did it bopping at a party, that just wasn't it. And that's what changed the whole narrative. Like once he got caught out in the club, no mask, breaking all the rules, and you see the NBA. We're watching the NBA struggle right now to prevent guys from having COVID. We're watching games get postponed,

and you are in the spot did it bopping with no mask on while your team is out on the road playing the game of basketball, and no one has heard from you except from watching you on social media. That just wasn't the right way to go about it. Yeah, and I think that that's been a big thing with Kyrie. I mean, you know, like you said, if you need a mental break, take that. His rollout on these things have been very bad. You know what I mean?

And why is it so, you guys have been around him, you know, for a minute. You guys have had, you know, intimate time with him. But why is that the messaging never right when he does these types of things? Why does he have a, why is there a problem there with that? Why is there a disconnect there, Perk? Well, let me say this. Roger, and I'm going to let you take it away because I want you to honestly tell me

if I'm wrong or if I'm right. Here's the thing that I've got to say. All right. This is the shit that pisses me up. When you sign up for the NBA, okay? You sign up for the NBA. This is a lifestyle. The fortune and the fame.

Sometimes it's good fame. Sometimes it's bad fame, okay? this is what I don't understand. I was a Shacken the Fool legend, right? I was a Shacken the Fool legend. I was on Shacken the Fool. My kids still laugh at me and joke with me to this day. Guess what?

I don't give a damn. I still go to sleep at night. This was part of it. Them checks ain't stopped coming in. Here guys making $30, 40 million damn dollars a year, and you worried about what somebody is saying about you on TV, or talking about basketball or something that you did

to cause this conversation. That's the problem I have. You come out and you address the media preseason with a public statement. A public statement. A public statement. Think about that, right? Like, you're just sitting up here

and everybody else is just beneath you. That's how you take it. Then you come out and you address it again on your social media and call people pawns. Like, that is the ultimate disrespect. And so when people start to talk about it, ask yourself, why is people talking about it? Because you're the ones started it.

So as the media, as our job, is to discuss whether we agree with you or don't agree with you. And it's just part of it. But if you had the proper media training and you wasn't so damn sensitive, this shit wouldn't affect you at all anyway. And I just don't get it with a lot of these players, Roger like, and you was the same way.

You and I both didn't got talked about on ESPN, whether it's good or bad. We didn't got talked about. That shouldn't stop you from going to sleep at night. This is what we signed up for. If you don't want the media talking about you, is YMC leagues open, is L.A.

They hooping at L.A. Fitness. They're hooping at the rec center. No media will talk about you ever again in life. But here it is you're blessed to be in a position that millions of people out there in the world would love to be in your shoes. And you're so damn sensitive because somebody is talking about, one,

your basketball or two, something that you did that caused the media to react. Yes, sensitivity is a real issue. Like, generationally, like we're real, sensitive. I would take it a step further with like, if you're someone that doesn't like to be criticized and all of that through the media, like, don't poke the bear. You know, don't, don't come out there antagonizing the media. Like, what do you think's going to happen as a backlash or a reaction to that? As it pertains specifically to Kyrie, Logan, and your question about his

rollout on things like this, because in fairness to Kyrie, he does a lot of great philanthropic work, man, like he is really out there doing cool things. So I want to give him credit. But what happens is and and Perk kind of touched on it when he said, you know, he's given a public statement as if to say he's up here and everyone, like, Kyrie comes off like he thinks he's smarter than you. Like, and he's more enlightened than you, right? And so like, how dare you question what I'm going to do with this? I'm doing it because I'm more enlightened than you. And that, that rubs people the wrong way. Like, you know, and look, I don't know like Kyrie's IQ and all of that. I'm not saying that, but it's the way he approaches it, it seems like, and it's the way it comes off.

It's like, look, I know better than y'all. Like, I've got this figured out. You guys clearly don't. And this is what I'm going to do. I also think that there's a lack of real direction in his camp. You know, Perks been around some camps where there are some people there providing great advice. There are multiple people providing checks and balances in that process. So if Perk thinks that shit is a great idea for me, Logan might come in and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

perk. Hey, Rod, you need to think about that, dog. Like, that's not, that might not play the way you think is going to play. I don't think he has that. So, you know, I think he's really just flying by the seat of his pants, which is, hey, dog, I'm smarter than you. And this is how I'm going to do it. Yeah. And then he has his godfather and Ross Strickland, who comes to his defense and I'm sitting up and saying, like, no, like, Carre is wrong in this situation. Like, and here's the thing. This is the problem that I have.

He does wrong. The media react to it. And then all of a sudden he does something great in the, in it falls in the communities. And everybody, like, you all, Kyrie Apology. No, the hell I don't. There are two different things.

There are two different things. Right. I wasn't addressing what he was doing in the community. I was talking about what he's doing in basketball. And by the way, it's a lot of people doing things in the community. They're just not out there broadcasting it. Because if you're doing it for the right reason, you don't need a pat on the back and you don't need recognition.

I do have a question when you talked about the two different generations, right? Because you said, like, you know, our generation, mine is a bit more sensitive. Do you think that a part of that has to do with how accessible criticism is these days, right? Because, you know, back when Roger was playing, you know, it was a newspaper, you had to buy that joint. Now, like, they bring it, they bring it up to your bumper on Twitter. And it's something that you constantly have to see no matter what and what. Do you think that that plays a role at all? Well, get off of Twitter. Get off social media. If you can't handle it. It's part of it. It's part of it. It's no excuse.

You signed up for it. And if you can't take someone saying something, about you on Twitter, then you need to get up off of it. Social media, they're going to have it. They talked about the best of them. Hell, they talked about Jesus. It don't make nobody else different in this world today. So with that being said, I say a lot of stuff on Twitter. People don't agree with me.

They say crazy things to me. Who gives a damn? Who gives a damn? It's part of it, man. It's part of it when you sign on the dotted line or you get drafted and you walk into the NBA, this is what all comes with it. And so, all right, before we get to contenders and pretenders, I'm going to pose a question to you guys.

Is Kyrie on the team by the end of the season? Roger go first, but you had to put some money on it. Yeah, I think he is. Okay. I don't, I mean, Sean Marks and them have done a good job so far, like pulling off deals, obviously that James Hardin one was huge, but I don't think they haven't in them to move him. I don't. I do. I do, I want to double down. If the right deal was there and it made me a better team, I would. I don't think they do it this year. I think he stays in bro.

Absolutely. He's not going no well. And the main reason why is because him and Kevin Durant are besties. And Kevin Durant is not going to do it because it's almost like to the point where he's going to feel like he turned his back on Kai Rhee. And we know how much Kevin Durant takes up for Kai Ree. So Sean Marks may have it on his mind to do it, but also he don't want to piss off Kevin Durant. So Kevin Durant is going to have say so and whatever goes on with that organization. Let me ask you a question then, Perk, because you know KD way better than me. If they don't get it done with this group, does there come a point where KD is like, hey, Sean Marks, you do what you got to do? Or is that something that he's like, nah, dog, like what came here together?

and this will either win or lose together, or will KD eventually say, hey, man, you got to do what you got to do? He's going to have to say that, because right now, this team right now, is championship or bus. There's no other way around it. James Carden forced his way out

because he wanted a championship. It's not, oh, this team is growing, and they got no, next year, no, hell no. It's championship or bus. And when you have a championship of bus team and say you don't achieve that goal. In the off-season, you got to get better, whatever that means. You know Kevin Durand is not going anywhere.

We know that for damn sure. But you got to reevaluate every situation because I've been on LeBron James team and it's championship of bus. And in off-season, he wants to see upgrades. Like we just saw just now. They just won a championship and they won the off-season. Great point.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I am curious, too, because this is the first time, and you know this, part, this is the first time Kevin Durant has had his own team where he knows all the power that he can wield. So I'm curious to see how he wields that power in the next coming years because an OKC, I mean, it was his team, but I don't think he fully knew how much power he wielded in an OKC. And the Warriors, we already know how that went. Now he's with the Brooklyn Nets. And now he has, you know, he has a power to say to the GM or the owner, hey, man, let's get this dude about the paint or, hey, man, let's bring a James Harden in.

I'm going to be curious to see how that works out. But let's go to contenders and pretenders with perk. We're going to throw some names out there to, so it's a big perk. Roger, let's start it off. This is your segment. This is something that you wanted to bring out here. It was a great idea. Yeah.

All right. Let's see what you do. What's you got? What you got, Rodney. Hotest team in the league right now. 10 wins in a row doing it without Donovan Mitchell. The Utah Jazz, contender or pretender?

They all contender. Last year, they were my dark horse contender, but Donovitch didn't go to the bubble. And I think he's a huge part. Mike Connolly wasn't fully committed. But this year, he is. They have a, they don't have, Donovan Mitchell is a star.

a superstar. But the Utah Jazz have a really, really good team. They're well coached. Defensively, they get into you, and they have depth on their bench. You have Joe Ingalls, you have Jordan Clarkson, along with the starting five, and you know what else they don't get enough credit for? Defensively, Ross O'Neill is a elite defender that people don't give enough flowers too. And if Rudy Gobert could continue to play like he did last night and over this stretch, meaning

rebound, finish at the basket, anchor that defense play with tenacity, it would not surprise me one bit if the Utah Jazz make it to the finals. Am I picking them to make it to the finals? Hell no. But I'm saying they are dark cars contend

to meaning that if they got there, I would be like, it don't surprise. Yep. Only team in the league right now, top five in both offensive and defensive officiaries. See what I'm saying? Need the league and rebound. Back to your point. Tough. I don't know, but I don't know if they're a contender though, but go ahead. A contender for me, contender for me. All right, you want to give them one? You want me to just roll them off, Logan. I mean, we didn't really rehearse. All right. Milwaukee, contender or pretender? Milwaukee is a pretender. And will they grow on me? I'm going to have

to see over the year, but over the course of the. season, but I just don't have faith in Janus. I don't have faith in Janus. Like, I'm watching too many times when the game is close, a possession by possession game in the fourth quarter, he is standing in the corner. You are the two-time MVP. When are you going to elevate your game and take over?

Like, Janice, like, we can't, we'll never say that Janice took, over for a quarter like what Bron did just two games to go against Cleaver. We'll never see that, in my opinion. Until he proved me wrong, I've never witnessed that. See, the thing was, was that we were caught up

last year because Janis dominated in 30 minutes because they were blowing people out, right? So he didn't never really have to play a lot of close games. But when things get tough, and now that them goons from Day County,

that he'd expose them, teams are like, hold on, they really not built that way. So I think that the Milwaukee Bucks are a pretender right now as of today. Okay, let's go to the team. We talked about Brooklyn. Let's go to the team to beat the Lakers last night, the Philadelphia 76ers, pretender or contender or pretender? A contender. A contender.

Right now, the 76ers are the best team in the Eastern Conference. They are the best team in the Eastern Conference. They got an MVP candidate. They have Ben Simmons who I think is finally finding his way. Doc Rivers got these guys brought into their roles. You can tell every guy's playing their roles on the offensive end and the defense event. They have a six-man-of-the-year candidate in Shake Milton.

They also have an underrated player who I love so much that people just give him credit. for shooting the ball, and that's self-curried. Forget just shooting the ball. This dude is an all-around hooper. Let's correct that right now. He is a hooper, and he's on the defensive end, he's underrated on how he gets into guys.

Indiana. Pretender. I love Indiana. They just actually missing some pieces, and I think as they continue to grow, they will be pretty damn good. Like I love Malcolm Brogden. Sabonis is a beast.

I think the Holiday Brothers are good role players. T.J. Warren is a cool dude for 19-20 a game, but they are missing like they need their superstar. Let me go two more because I'm so what I did was I pulled up and I'm cross-references who kind of fits the bill in terms of statistically being able to get it done. Indy is really close. right?

Like they're 13th in the league defensively. Atlanta is also a team top 10 offensive, but right outside defensively. These two next teams only fit one of the criteria. They don't make them both, but I think they both are in the conversation. Boston and the Clippers. Both of them are contenders.

And look, right now, Boston, when you watch Boston, and it's a problem, offensively, guys are getting off. So you have a guy like Jay, Brown, who's having a career high points. His offensive game has took a tremendous leap. He hasn't really been locked in defensively like we know him to be, all right? But we do know he can be.

We know he has the athleticism to do it. Jason Tatum, who took a leap forward last year as a defender, he's taking a step forward, a step backwards. But we do have to realize they didn't have Kimber, so it was more on their plate. Marcus Smart haven't been a defensive player of the year candidate that we've been seeing.

So I feel like they're going to get it together once. They finally, last night was their first game having their whole team back. Where they had Kimber, Jason Taylor, and Jalen Brown on the court together. The Clippers, the Clippers have been flying under the radar, but they're playing inspiring basketball.

And yes, believe that they are going to be, that they are a contender. We're going to see that Western Conference matchup, in my opinion, that we wanted to see. I think Nichols-Batoon has brought great value to them. Sergei Baca. T. Lou has been mixing it up a little bit, man,

because he's been, like, you know, when they have a full roster, he's been going away from Lou Will a little bit, and it's been surprising. but the clippers look like they enjoy one another, and sometimes they just take that change of scenery. Doc is loving it in Philly. Philly is loving Doc.

Toulou is loving clippers, and the clippers loving Doc. So, hey, both of them move on. They're in great situations. Win, win, all right, Logan. I had one more, but I'm going to leave Denver out. Like I'm going to leave Denver out. Okay, Pretender.

You already. Now, I do want to ask, can I be asking one more thing before we go on? What is wrong, in your opinion? with two teams that I thought would just be better than that, than they are right now. Dallas and my Phoenix Suns. Like what's going on with those two?

Well, I had Phoenix Suns pick to be a top five team in the West. But Devin Book is out. They lost a few close games. I feel like they will get it together. The young guys are developing in McKell Bridges and Cameron Johnson. And so I feel like they're okay. DeAndre Aiden is finally playing up to being the number one pick and spurs.

Just got to get him being consistent. Look, I wouldn't panic over the sons. Now, the Mavericks, on the other hand, Mavericks got to get it together. When I say get it together, I wish people stop being fooled. And there's no knock on Luke. He's an awesome player.

But I wish people stop being fooled about his triple-dum. doubles because I watch the game and I want to watch Luca impact winning. You know what I mean? I want to watch him impact winning, meaning is he going to dive on the floor for loose balls? Is he going to take charges? Is he going to do anything that doesn't show up in the stat sheet to impact winning?

We watch LeBron James. We watch Cowanagan. We watch even Yonis. We watch Kevin Durant. We watch those four. guys do things on the floor that is winning basketball plays that doesn't show up in the stat sheet. And I think it's time for Luca to do the same. So you're saying, like, let's ask the same question about Luca's stats as all of these cats have been asking about Russ's stats for

the last few years. Like, how come Luca's not getting that same kind of conversation? Bingo. Bingo. Where's the same energy? Let's put up triple doubles. but it's not converting in nothing. I got you. Well, before we get out of here, let's get to a real one of the week. Roger, you want to go first? Yeah, I'm going to go first.

And it does link into basketball, even though it's a football player, it's Deshaun Watson, finally coming out, and it's not like sources say anymore. Like, he said, no, I want out. Like, this organization is not doing what I needed to do. There's stuff behind the scenes that I am not cool with, And I am not going to squander the prime of my career messing around with the damn Houston, Texan.

So get me up out of here. It's a formal request now. You ain't got to worry about whether you heard it from a source. I said it. I want out in Texas. Real one. Real one. Perk.

Who you got, man? You go first, Logan. Let me think some more. All right. I'm going to go with the OG Seikou Smith, who passed away recently. And, yeah, man, it was a great dude, man. I interned at Turner Sports while he was there. And he was just always just great to me, always was an OG.

And I think the biggest thing that can't be understated is when I was growing up. He was someone that looked like me in this business, right? And gave a lot of people that looked like me hope that we could do something in this business, man. And it's tough news, man, but he was always a real one with me. And I just want to, you know, give him his full. Flowers ruined. Oh, a great guy. Great guy. I always showed class respect as when I was a player. I'm going to go with Leonard Hamilton. Oh, head coach at Florida State. You know why? Because he got them playing at an elite level. They playing inspired basketball. I honestly believe

that if Florida State was to play Gonzaga and Baylor, they'll beat both of them. They have had a phenomenal two weeks, and they look great. I mean, they look great when you watch them play. They're covering the spreads every single week. They're smacking people. So I just want to give Florida State men's basketball their props. Hell no. The Seminole's on the real ones,

they whipped my hurricanes the other night and Leonard Hamilton. And Leonard Hamilton told me he had five pros at Miami, so I should look to go somewhere else. I ain't given no Leonard Hamilton. Oh, man. Yo, Perk, thanks so much for coming on, Big Dog. Friend of the show, you know you welcome anytime. You know what I'm saying?

You and the throne are welcome to the real ones anytime, man. Real recognized, real. I appreciate y'all, man. Yes, sir, man. We will see you guys next time. Make sure you tap into the real ones on the NBA, Ringer NBA feed. Also, the Ringer NBA show. Also, Ringer Music Show, Ringer NFL show.

We got a lot going on. R.2C. With C-C-Sathea. Don't even say it. We'll see you. We know, we know. Bay Area, ah, all right. See y'all next week.