The Ringer NBA Show - Kings Coaching Conundrum. Plus, What to Make of D’Angelo Russell’s Career. | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 31, 2024

Raja and Howard are back with a New Year's Eve edition of 'Real Ones.' Raja explains what it’s like to play on New Year's (1:03). The Sacramento Kings have fired yet another coach in Mike Brown, who won Coach of the Year in 2023. Should De’Aaron Fox and the players take some accountability for Brown's firing, and where does this revolving coaching door come from with the Kings (7:40)? The Lakers and Nets traded D’Angelo Russell and Dorian Finney-Smith, along with some picks. Will DFS help the Lakers improve and contend for a title? And why can’t DLo find a permanent home (29:00)? Plus, Cliff’s Sixers are rolling and a mailbag! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Howard Beck and Raja Bell Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get you. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media that's at Ringer NBA and check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history

of podcasting read in the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. What up? It's Real Ones. Our back senior writer at the Ringer on this New Year's Eve. With me as a man who once scored 19 points on New Year's Eve in an overtime, in an overtime victory at Chicago. Roger Bell. What's up, Ross? What up? up H. Beck. Cliff, what's good, my boy? Like, yeah, New Year's were always cool games in the NBA.

Usually families came with you. Well, not usually, but as we got older, and there was always something, you know, set up and prearranged for the team out in the streets of whatever respective city you were in, and those were always good times, man. Chicago was especially fun. We had all of our wives with this and stuff like that. Those are great memories. You remember that one. Do you remember scoring 19 points? I don't remember the 19. I remember the 19. I remember. I remember Sean Marion was from Chicago, so tricks would always have kind of something set up for us and we'd go out and have a good time. I think we played in Detroit one, New Year's Eve, too, and then bounced over to Chicago.

No, the point's come and go, man, but you know. You did. You played on New Year's Eve four times, twice with Phoenix in 2005 and 06. Yeah. And that was Chicago and Detroit, where the two that you're just referring to. And then twice with Utah, once at home against Sacramento, once on the road at San Antonio. So three of your four New Year's Eve were actually on the road. I was actually curious about that too because the NBA does schedule games on New Year's Eve.

You seem to like it, but not everybody wants to be gone on the holidays, but is that generally, like if you're going to be scheduled on any of the holidays during the season, like New Year's Eve is the one to do? Yeah, it's always a big honor for Christmas Day. too, because you know you're a good team. And most, most organizations will make some accommodations for families to come then too. So it becomes its own kind of Christmas celebration. A lot harder to pull off. My kids were, I think Dia had just been born the last time we played on Christmas Day with the sun. So, but, you know, Santa wasn't a thing yet. There weren't any explanations as to what was going on there with the gifts and stuff. It's a little harder when

they're in their more formative years. But, yeah, New Year's, New Year's is typically like a good one. because you're, you know, at this stage, we're celebrating at home with family and friends. But at that age, we weren't. So just about any city you went to, there was something, you know, you could, you could either schedule and have on your own or you could get into it if you wanted. Yeah, I typically didn't mind being on the road for New Year's. We're all washed at this stage. So I assume no one's got major New Year's plans.

Cliff and I were just talking about this off the air. My wife and I are going out to dinner. We're going to go to some kind of small, like, house party. here in Brooklyn with some friends. That's about it. I'm certainly not going anywhere near fucking Times Square. I don't know what you got going on down there in South Florida, Rob. But like, I think we're all too washed to be really going at it hard on New Year's. Yeah, man, I took, I mean, my wife and I took my wife and my daughter out for dinner last night just to try to avoid today. And we're just going to have some friends over tonight and hang out.

And I'm generally like not a crowd guy. I don't, I don't like him. I turn into that old get off my porch got really quickly. So they know not to, even if my wife wants to be out, she knows not to drag me out with her. But, uh, I mean, you have kids, Howard. You'll appreciate my son got his, my son tore some ligaments in his ankle, had to have surgery. Yesterday, he got his cast off. And he's, uh, you know, got kind of a time crunch to make some, some, like, there's a Super Bowl Nike event that I think he's going to. Um, and so he's trying to get ready to go. So this morning, like I told him, you're probably going to have treatment. But it is on me.

And ultimately, that's why I'm a little pissed because I didn't have that scheduled for him last night. So we didn't know what time it was going to be. But right before we hop on this pot, I get the call like, yeah, if he can be here in 30 minutes. Otherwise, he's got to wait till Thursday, which is understandable. But that's like three days out of the cast that you've wasted. So I go wake him up.

I'm like, yo, let's go. Get your shit. Let's go. But you got, you got, you got, you got, what? What? What? I need something to drink. I'm like, all right, get the fuck up.

So like, he. he gets up and I'm hopping on with you guys and he's like, Dad, the cube fell out of the wall last night. My phone's dead. I'm like, what the fuck? He never been here before.

Doesn't know where he's going in Miami. So I got to give him my phone and then I start the old dominole of phones. I got to go grab my younger son's phone. Now I'm borrowing that for an hour. Like just craziness. Just absurd. Brutal. Absolutely brutal.

But he got to rehab. He'll be, he's, he made his appointment. He'll be fine. I mean, shit, I don't know.

He's in the, he's in the, right now. We'll find out, I guess. Good stuff. I hope the rehab goes well. That's surgery. So I appreciate that. You know, I was thinking about this as we come down to this last show of 2024.

This was a pretty dramatic year for the real ones. We lost producer Kerm. We lost producer Kai. Everybody just, you know, abandoning us for other Ringer podcasts. But we gained producer Cliff and Isaiah. We're in very good hands, but just a lot of change. We lost Logan for four months. That's a happy thing, though.

He's a new dad. And he's going to be back in one week, one week from today, the return of Logan Murdoch. So that's exciting. I've been playing substitute hosts for the last four months, so no one can truly replace Logan. The show moved from Mondays and Thursdays to Tuesdays and Fridays. That was jarring. I like, you know, calendar stuff. Like I can barely, I have to like now go in and change that little repeating

calendar thing, my alerts to two different days. That's a lot for me to handle at this age. Yeah, dude. You've done it great. Yeah, we did. And I think, I mean, I don't, I clearly have never been a writer, but there's got to be some level of flexibility that you guys learn at like an early stage in your career, as do journeymen. So like, you know, maybe if, you know, if we had been different or if I had been a star or something, we wouldn't have that flexibility. But I think we handled it well, Howard. I think we did. You know, that's, that's the thing, right? It's like, being the sixth man, sometimes you've got to be a starter. I've been, I, I had to fill in for the star, for Logan for a little bit, but he's coming back. And I'll go back to, you know, my humble little role. It's great. True pro, bro. All right. So we got a few things I want to hit here on this last show of 2024. All just new. We've had a flurry of news since you and I signed off on Friday because we talked about the Kings. We had Danny Green on. We were talking about the Kings and just, you know, some warning signs and everything else. Lo and behold. like two hours after we finished, Mike Brown got fired. So here we are. Doug Christie,

the interim coach, we'll see where that leads. They did win last night against Dallas, a Dallas team that had basically none of its starters playing. So I don't know if they're exactly solving any issues just yet, but nice for them to get one of those feel good wins. Roger, what was your thoughts in the immediate aftermath of Mike Brown being fired by the king? This solves everything, right? Yeah, I mean, you pencil them into, like Western Conference Finals, I think. My first reaction, because I didn't see it when it broke. I saw it kind of as people talked about it,

where how many of his former colleagues and other coaches kind of came to his defense after it. So my initial, when you asked my initial reaction, it was kind of like, hey, man, that's pretty cool. Those guys are standing up from Mike. You know, I guess after digesting it, you know, the bottom line is the Kings are going to be the Kings, right? if Mike Brown wasn't the message anymore

and I've touched on this before it's such an interesting you know it's such an interesting little organism the NBA locker room and the team itself and you never know when the message from the coach is going to just stop being listened to I would argue that if you deemed that was the case then there was probably evidence of that

before this season. And if it reared its head at this point, where are you going this year anyway? Like, what's the point in it right now? I don't believe that to necessarily be the case, but I just, I didn't think that for an organization that hasn't had its stuff together, if you will, to be polite for a while, and they seem to have been getting it. Like, don't do the mid-season thing. I didn't agree with that. I can't speak to you know, the inner workings relationships, the tension around the building, all of that, you know, amongst a lot of other things go into making a move. But for an organization like them, their track, where I just didn't, the midseason thing is tacking. And it's in line with

what, it's, it's in line with Sacramento doing Sacramento shit. Yeah. I think what that's one of my first takeaways, Raja, period. And underscored by the fact that obviously Michael Malone, you know, somebody who's got, not only has a relationship with Mike Brown, but Michael Malone, himself was fired in kind of a, you know, stupid fashion, clumsy fashion way back in the day. But Michael Malone absolutely ripped the Kings over this and said, you know, because he referred to the, like, I can't remember the way he phrased it, but he basically said, and I know because it was the same guy. And he was, he was referring to Vivek Renadivay, the owner, obviously, because the front

office has changed. But it was Renadivay who did it then. There is some pushback through, you know, the usual anonymous, you know, channels about who's responsible this time. No, it was a front office's decision. But the fact is, like, to your point about the Kings, this is a franchise with a really bad reputation historically. They had their heyday, you know, back when I was covering the Lakers,

and Lakers Kings was a thing every year, and those teams were really fun. But ever since that era of Chris Weber and Doug Christie, not, you know, Doug Christie is part of that, of course. He's now the interim coach. But that era, that was the last time anybody had any respect for or regard for that organization. And it's been an utter shit show since then. I did the list at one point.

I haven't done the accounting recently. But the Kings and the Knicks at one point were like, you know, going head to head for who had the most GMs and coaches combined in a 15 to 20 year span. The Knicks have finally settled into some stability over the last five years. They've been great. And the Kings are still doing this. The Kings are still kangsing.

And it's just when you think there's a breakthrough, They finish, you know, top three of the West a couple of seasons ago. They light the beam, all the good feelings. Last year, they slipped by a couple wins, but they're still pretty good. And it's just the West got better. And now here they are. Mike Brown, unanimous coach of the year, less than two years ago, is now fired. And on top of it all, I'm not going to go too hard at this.

I don't know what the circumstances are. And it may change by the time we finish recording for all I know, Raja. But the firing happened on Friday. And as we record this around midday Eastern time on Tuesday, nobody from the Kings has spoken about it. No Vivek Renadevei, no Moni McNair, nobody in official capacity has addressed why they fired Mike Brown, why they fired him right now.

What role like Deere and Fox has pushed back at all the, you know, the idea that he's part of the reason for this or a reason for this. They haven't, they should be addressing that. They should be addressing whether Doug Christie might be the permanent solution. They should be addressing whether they take any responsibility themselves for the state of the roster. Was the Demar de Rosen movement? Like, there are questions that come when you fire coaches, when you fire anybody. Organizations need to be accountable to their fans, to the public.

And again, I don't want to go too hard at this. It's noon on Tuesday. Maybe there are plans afoot that I'm unaware of. But as of right now, it's been four days. And there's been no explanation and no availability by anybody. who made that's that's that's that's that's that's not that's that's bananas um it's unheard of and plans of foot like i'll give let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they do have plans of foot to to have a press conference it's too late what do you

mean like five days later is outrageous that's that's that's you know that's embarrassing it's it's the best way i could put that that's it's it's it's it's it's it's embarrassing to mike Brown. But it's embarrassing to the team and the franchise. And players within your own locker room are probably, even if they wanted Mike Brown out, have to look at the way you handled that in the, in the, in the, you know, after the fact and be like, yo, that's embarrassing. I've only been in one front office, Howard. I was blessed to be around some good organizations, right? Like, I played for some really good ones. And the one that I actually was in and had, had had, had, was privy to the, the conversations that were had when it was big decision making

time, um, handled itself in the way that the plan was going to be executed and there were, you know, the meetings required to do that and the conversations required to get to the bottom of whether it needed to be done or not. And then as soon as that was signed off on, the execution of the plan of how we're going to handle the press. What's the message going to be not just from the front office, but even the interim coach, because we're, We know he's going to have to get up and answer questions in regards to that. So here's what we're going to do with Doug about like, hey, man, here's how we, here's how we'd ideally like to handle that.

Like, we're not going to script it for him, but here are the bullet points. And because you know that you have to get up in the immediate aftermath of that and at least, at least explain yourself. I mean, you don't owe it, but that's normal business procedure. That's standard operating procedure, dude. To not do that, kings are going to be kings in. Like, I don't, I want to make up some kind of slogan shit and sell it on the streets of Sacramento, that's trash. On top of everything else, and this was in the initial reporting on

Friday when it happened, they fired Mike Brown over the phone while he was driving to the plane for a road game. You came on here to get me mad? I did not come on here to get you mad on this New Year's Eve, Raja. The good news is you can just party it all the way tonight. We'll forget about everything. They just, every part of this has been handled clumsily. Do you know how many coaches Deeran Fox has had in his eight seasons? Five? Five. Good job. Nicely done. Five coaches in eight seasons. That's not great.

And Doug Christie is their 13th coach. I think that counts interrims. Since 2005-06, which is the end of the Rick Adelman era, Mike Brown in that time was the only one with the winning record. Vivek Renadivay took over as primary owner in 2013. He went from, on the GM level, he went from Jeff Petrie to Pete Dallessandro to Vladevats to Moni McNair. So that's four heads of basketball operations in 12, 11. That's not great if you're replacing somebody every three years to run your team. Coaches since Renadivay took over.

Michael Malone, George Carl, Ty Corbett on an interim basis, Dave Yeager, Luke Walton, Alvin Gentry, Mike Brown, and now Doug Christie. Maybe the problem is you? Owner of the team? Maybe.

Instability always goes straight to the top. Howard, straight to the top. Howard, straight to the top. And I don't know Vivek. I don't really have any plans on working the NBA anymore. And certainly not Sacramento. So let me just say this was the same guy that the last time I was affiliated with the league in any real capacity was throwing out there in big enough circles that it would get back to other teams. The idea of copying a youth girls league basketball, that's bananas.

He was, he was, now again, you're saying this to a friend over like a bourbon or a scotch. And it's not getting back to other front offices in the way that. we were talking about it in Cleveland. But you were obviously talking about this strategy in circles that it meant something. And you had to be standing up for it in some real capacity for it to get back to the ears of someone like me at that time. And basically what he was saying, people probably remember this is because it worked at like 12 year with his 12 year old girls basketball team where you could essentially

play four girls on defense and leave one of them in the back or front court, however you look at it, to cherry pick. And he was playing with. with the idea of playing basketball like that in the NBA, that tells me a lot of what I need to know about you. Yeah. As a basketball mind. And, you know, we've talked about good ownership,

and we've talked about what goes into being a good owner and what goes, you know, quite frankly, into sometimes mismanaging things as an owner. I don't know what he does on a day-to-day in fairness to him. But the track record suggests that he's not a very good owner. So Dearen Fox is, is, you know, a little bit in the crosshairs here, of course, because he's the franchise star. He, you know, clearly there were some, there were some moments there, right? We talked about this on the Friday pod with Danny Green that Mike Brown had called him out specifically for the blown final defensive play in their loss the night before against Detroit.

And there's been some moments where Mike Brown has called him out publicly more. And it seemed like it was increasing lately. Deerrin Fox spoke to Ramona Shelburne, our friend from ESPN, and was basically trying to say, listen, this is not about me. I like being coached hard. I had a good relationship with Mike Brown. And he said, quote, this is Deeran Fox, quote, I feel like there's this perception that people thought that we were at odds.

You can ask anybody in this organization. Me and Mike have never even had an argument. We could disagree with something. We talked about it and it was gone. That's all fine. but remember what we talked about Friday and the reason we were talking about the Kings on that episode, Deeran Fox, you know, didn't sign an extension in the off season.

His agent was putting pressure on the franchise, you know, stories about how they wanted some clarity about the direction of the franchise. Deard Fox went on Dr. Ma Green's pod and said basically the same thing. So, you know, I'm not saying this is on Deeran Fox and I'm not saying that he's the one who got Mike Brown fired or anything of the sort. But there is some responsibility here, right, Raja?

Like, if you were the franchise star, Shaq used to always say this to us back when things got tense, especially in the later stages of the Del Harris era. Shaq would always say, I know how this is going to go if we fall short of expectation. First it's going to be on Dell and then it's going to be on me. You know, because that's how it goes. You fire the coach and then, like, that's it. The protection or the first layer of blame is gone. And now all focuses on the franchise star.

Shack's a different level of franchise star than D.Eard Fox, all due respect to Dier and Fox, but still, this is his fifth coach. And again, I'm not saying that's on him. That is mostly about the organization's lack of stability and clarity. But there is some responsibility when you are the best player on the team. Is there not? Yeah, I think there is. That's part of what comes with the territory. I talk to my son Dia about that all the time. you know, as I'm trying to teach him how to be, you know, the quote-unquote kind of CEO of a team. Yeah, you know, there are perks that come with that. There's a lot of responsibility that comes along with that. Part of that is, you know, facing the music when things don't go right.

And, you know, in this instance, when it's kind of been public, that, you know, the head coach is trying to coach you harder. and he's making reference to some of your mistakes, and then he's fired right after, you know, representation comes into town asking about the direction of the franchise, that that's going to blow back on you. And again, I want to be fair to all these players because I'm not there. I would imagine that there were some tensions there. Whether they've had a fight and someone could bring up an instance

where it boiled over in front of the team or not, I would imagine that there are some tensions there. Even more of a reason for the front office to have the conversations amongst themselves and ownership about what that makes, what position does that put your star in when this has been the climate recently in the media and he's been asking about the direction of the franchise

and then we're going to fire the head code. You have to know that that's going to blow back on him in a way, right? And I just think it all speaks to, to dysfunction. And this isn't Deerrin Fox specific because I want to give him the benefit of doubt and say that, you know, from where he came from as a young player, and he seems to be a good dude that this isn't a situation where a coach can't coach him hard. So I'm not, this isn't a Deerrin Fox sentiment. But generally speaking, we live in a world where it's harder and harder to do that to players. And it really, you know, all these lines get blurred and it's all intertouching

especially at the collegiate level with the NIL and Tony Bennett's of the world and the, and the Laranegas of the world and the Sabins of the world kind of stepping down because the money is now intertwined in a way in the collegiate game with this new type of player that you can't coach the same way. It makes it even more difficult. But the NBA has always had the financial component in play. So these lines aren't blurred. This is purely a different generation of player that very rarely likes to be coached and held to the same standard as lesser players than him on a team.

This isn't a Deerrin Fox thing. I don't know that that's the case there. But it's a real thing and it's become harder and harder for people as coaches to navigate your locker room. The most important thing to a coach, the most important thing to a coach is to be able to hold your best player

to the highest standard. And be able to do that in a way, obviously you respect each other and no one's trying to throw anyone under the bus or embarrass each other or show, you know, show anyone up. But if I can demonstrate to my numbers three through seven that I will hold number one to the highest standard amongst all of you all, oh my God, that gives me backbone in the locker room. And when you can't do that, it makes your job really, really difficult. And I'm sorry because it didn't really answer your question, Howard. Yeah, he's culpable to some degree. And sure, this falls back on, on him, especially in light of all

the stuff that happened in the media recently, but just bigger picture, man. Like, what, I mean, and you've made, most of these guys have made their money. Like, you're already superstars. Like, let someone fucking coach you. Let them do their job in a way that might get you where you want to go. And let's say for the sake of argument that this is not about Deerrin Fox, that he's been coachable, that he was fine with Mike Brown getting on him publicly, privately, everything.

Yeah. You know how we could clear this up really easily of press conference? with the front office and the ownership saying, guys, we want to make it really clear. Whatever else you've read or heard, this had nothing to do with Deerran. Because, by the way, the Kings are now in a really precarious position, right?

Not that far removed from their breakthrough season and all the good feelings and feeling like finally they've put all the mayhem and dysfunctional of the past behind them. They're on the right track. They're now a force to be reckoned with. They're cohesive. They're consistent. They've got a clear vision.

They're finally stable. And now here you are. You have fired a recent coach of the year, unanimous coach of the year. Deeran Fox, your franchise star, has made some noise or his representation have made some noise about wanting clarity. Deeran Fox is now taking shots, whether deserved or not, from people who think that he's responsible. You're not protecting him. They're in a precarious position now, Rajabelle, as a franchise. Because the next time you need to sign a free agent or hire a coach,

or who knows, maybe they clean the front office out again for the for the umpteenth time. How many quality people are going to want to come there? You were just starting to turn the corner on image and perception. And now you're in a position where I think they seriously have to worry again about how they're being perceived around the league. And if this does end with Deer and Fox at some point, whether during the season or after it, saying, you know what, I've lost faith in our direction. I'm eight years in. It's time for something new. That's another blow to it too. So I just think that they're in a really precarious position, which is a horrible thing to have to say so recently after they were one of the feel good stories of the NBA. So it's,

it's just unfortunate all the way around. Yeah, it's really unfortunate. And I would, I would imagine that you're right in circles of people who would have an option to go to Sacramento and be able to compare apples to apples financially with another situation. I think all those things come into play. Howard and the dysfunction that they have been is certainly something that would be a topic of conversation amongst those people. It's going to be interesting, though, to see, and this might tell you the real truth about coach player relationship would be like how Deeran and his representation, you know, approach his future there in the aftermath of this.

Does that quiet down? Because it's gotten, like, if I'm telling you a last episode that what I was, want to know if I'm Deeran Fox is where we're going, how we're going to get there, continue to show me that you'll do everything you can to get me there. And that's going to be the reason why I stick here despite, you know, the lack of overall success and championships. I'm either in line with what just happened and that, and that is one of the steps that I think is going to help or I'm in the camp that we just talked about, which is, you know, this shit is just as crazy as it's ever been. maybe it's time for me to go.

And if someone's not really taking that stance, then maybe it would suggest that they thought, you know, moves needed to be made, right? So like, I'm taking everything that everyone says at face value, and I'm very interested to see how things move going forward with Deeran, his representation, the Kings, and his future with them. Make your first NBA bet a switch with Bandwool, America's number one sports book.

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moments of dysfunction, but made a nice move. The Lakers. dumped DeAngelo Russell. I don't know if this was the dumped DeAngelo Russell trade or the acquired Dorian Finney Smith trade. It depends on I guess on if I'm, I should be a little more charitable in this New Year's Eve. The Lakers acquired Dorian Finney Smith and Shake Milton. I like it. I think it was a good deal. Also benefiting from the fact that I think that they offloaded Angela Russell,

who we'll talk about in a minute. But I think this was an overdue move. They had not done anything substantial to upgrade the roster in some time, Raja. I don't know, overdue, but I'm not sure if it's enough. What was your initial impression? Yeah, I liked it. I'm not, in my estimation, not enough to get you over any real help. But I did like the move.

I think you get some real versatility defensively, you know, in a way that I think helps put out some fires there for the Lakers. obviously the DeAngelo piece going back gives you some flexibility where they hopped under that apron by a couple million dollars or something like that. I think it was a good move but not like a, you know, clearly not a blockbuster type of, hey, they're the favorites or I'm not moving them

out of whatever position I necessarily had them penciled in. Yeah, it's not going to change the world, but they, you know, they needed a versatile defender like Dorian Finney Smith. And he's very capable three-point shooter. I think he's having a career year from three, if I'm not mistaken. They badly needed both of those things. And everything I've ever heard about Doreenny Smith, whether in Brooklyn or Dallas,

everybody loves the guy, great teammate, great dude in the locker room. And shake Milton has his moments. So, you know, some nice added guard depth there. There's nothing to dislike about the deal other than I don't know if it's too little too late, right? And look, to their credit, the Lakers are hanging in at 18 and 13. LeBron just turned 40, all the birthday celebrations and worm wishes for him yesterday, as is deserved. The guy is just an athletic marvel. They need more punch.

I don't know if there's another move left. They set out a bunch of second round picks and DeAngelo Russell, so they didn't have to give up much. There's still plenty of assets there for them to deal if there's a bigger move to be. made. But it's fine. I like it fine. I'm curious what else they have left in the whole sort of if anything. I guess my question would be because I'm no capologist and I don't really do the trade machine stuff. Does that, does that flexibility, does the DeAngelo contract and what it does for your tax apron situation, does it get you closer or allow you to pull off a deal that you otherwise wouldn't be able to pull off if you were over that.

I'm going from memory. I think the Lakers did shed a little bit of total payroll in this deal. So I think they did buy themselves a little more flexibility as well. Yeah. So then it's a, I mean. Yeah. All of it's good. All of it's good.

Is it, you know, putting them in a position to knock out Oklahoma or Dallas or whoever in the playoffs, he probably not. But we'll see. What do you make of the deal? DeAngelo Russell part of this. I alluded to this a minute ago. DeAngelo Russell's had a really weird career in a lot of ways. Second overall pick by the Lakers in 2015. He lasts two seasons with the Lakers. They trade him to the Nets where he has like a really great season. I think like he was an all star that year. He's part of that Kenny Atkinson overachieving scrappy team and kind of remakes

his image a little bit. But he lasts only like two plus seasons with the Nets. Then he's traded to the Warriors that was in the Kevin Durant sign and trade. He lasts 33 games with the Warriors. He's flipped to Minnesota in yet another trade. That was the deal that brought back Wiggins and the pick that would become Cominga. The Timberwolves eventually, and he lasts two plus seasons in Minnesota. So all of these are like two to two plus seasons. Traded to the Lakers, where he's been for less than two full seasons. Now he's traded to the Nets again. And I'd say his future is uncertain. I mean, the Nets, maybe they think they can keep losing games with him because that's, I don't want to be too mean there. But like, or maybe they're buying him out.

Maybe they're trying to reroute him somewhere eventually. Maybe there's another trade to come between now and the deadline. He's a really talented score and occasionally a very good playmaker and a guy who clearly nobody wants to hang on to for more than about two to two and a half season. What of your impressions of DeAngelo Russell? And what do you think the Nets do with? I don't know to the last part of that. I don't know what they wind up doing with him. Obviously, I think that would depend on,

well, I don't know what they're going to do with him. Who he is, I like DeAngelo Russell. I remember going down to Columbus when I was with Cleveland. It was, you know, he was my assignment a few times to go to go watch and try to write scouting reports on. And I've always liked his game. He falls into a category of player that I can like your game. But as it relates to like winning in the NBA, you're a tweener. Probably too good with the ball and can do some things offensively consistent enough or consistently enough to not really be a true

role, roll guy. Like, right? You don't fit into that category because you're just a little too talented, but not talented or athletic or big enough to really be the sustaining and driving force on a, on a championship level team. So, like, in spurts, in short windows, teams will take it and use it for what it's worth. But, like, the market's kind of telling you what he is because no one sticks with it. And this isn't, you know, I could like the game and appreciate the skill set, but ultimately

teams are going to kind of tell you how they view a player. And the reality is for what he does offensively and for how you have to plug him in to the equation for it to work, he's just a little too good for his own good. Yeah. That's just kind of the way I see it. It's also the way he sees himself, by the way. Like he's, he clearly sees himself as the guy who should always have the ball in hands and be the lead score. And that doesn't always go well. That's the problem. That's the problem with a like a lot of those guys, right? Like they're just, you know, it's a very, it's a very difficult thing. I say this all the time, Howard. Like we as the public as the, the, the, the fans of the NBA can can see things sometimes more clearly from the outside looking in than you can when you're in

that building because when you're in that building every day, even players will tell you like Dionne Waiters, for example, DeAngelo Russell, players that practice against them the other every day whose ass they are busting on a daily basis. If you ask them privately, like they'd be like, yo, that motherfucker can go. Like, he can go. Because Real recognizes real in that fashion. Like, you're in there with him. Maybe he just torched me. Who would I be to say, nah, DeAngelo ain't the dude. And if you're doing that every day, there's a level of kind of respect of deference of like pecking order that's established in gyms. Going to any pickup gym where guys play regularly together, right? And you'll know by the way they kind of comport themselves and act around the time

it's picked the team, time to pick the teams, who they think the best players are. Now, you might watch the pickup game and be like, no fucking way. But they feel like that because they play the dudes every day. And it's a weird dynamic where you're in the locker room, the team sees you that way, you feel that way about yourself because of what you're doing against them and the feedback you're getting, but then plugged into like winning against other teams, someone's telling you, yeah, you're not the answer. It's hard for people to digest that. It's one of those things where, and I have this, I frequently end up in arguments with friends of mine who are NBA fans, who they're really attached to a certain player. And the thing that you learn that obviously you know

as a former player and that I have learned as a reporter covering this league for a long time, is there is a, sometimes a massive difference, but there is a difference just in general, qualitatively, on principle, between players with great talent and players who make a great impact on winning, right? And so there are a lot of times where the guys who have all the flash in their game

and all the athleticism and just dazzle you and fans fall in love with, that you have to learn the hard way that they're not always winning players. And I feel like DeAngelo Russell, I'm not saying he's not a winning player necessarily, but he's been in a variety of situations. Some winning teams, some losing teams.

But at the end of the day, teams keep deciding to move him on. He has been traded multiple times for a former second overall pick with all this talent. And the murmurings around the league are always like, yeah, he's just kind of a lot to deal with. And it's notable that the Timberwolves, when they made that deal, as part of the three team deal that landed in with the Lakers, they acquired Mike Conley in that deal. Mike Conley, who's like 10 years older, seven, eight years old, whatever it is,

maybe 10 years older than DeAngelin Russell. They opted for the older guy. And Mike Conley was better for them and was exactly what they needed. And in the wake of the trade, a lot of people rightly observed that the Lakers would have been better off actually just acquiring Mike Conley from Utah rather than making this a three-team deal that got them DeAngelo Russell because of all that Mike

Conno, even at this late stage of his career, brings to the table as a leader, as at that time still, as a defender, as a playmaker, as a guy who impacts winning without having all the dazzle and the stats behind it. But I have some very passionate Laker fan friends who have stood by D'Angelo Russell right to the bitter end. And even when I checked it with them the other day, they were like, yeah, I'm sorry to see him go. I don't know what to tell you guys anymore. There's a reason like he has been benched, pulled from the starting lineup, was no longer, you know, there's no longer being entrusted with that role. But he's fun to watch. When he's cooking, he's great. But yeah. You know. Well, yeah, I mean, the aesthetics sometimes

is the aesthetics of our game are a motho sometimes. Yeah. They really are because they can be so deceiving and certain people, you know, like anything, we like, we like our things to look different ways, right? And sometimes, you know, scoring is one of those things that a lot of times will fool you. And a lot of people, you could tell on the flip side of what you're saying, there are plenty of players out there that you wouldn't think much of them. You wouldn't think much of their dribbling ability or their scoring ability or anything really discernible from like a, from a aesthetic standpoint. And go to the list of teams that keep acquiring them or trading for them, or where they wind up.

And if you follow that map, you'll find his value. They're only good teams. They're only teams that have a shot to win something. And that tells the tale. We're a little short on time today. So we're going to jump straight to the mailbag from here. But before we get to the mailbag and producer Cliff doing his expert reading,

I think producer Cliff had some stuff to get off his chest about his Sixers. Oh, yeah. Raja, Roger. Our sixes are back, man. We back. We back, man. We're back, man. I'm back.

They're winning now. Joel and B's playing. What could you possibly be mad about right now, Cliff? And I'm not mad about it. I'm happy. I'm elated. This is why I'm coming on here. I'm letting the folks know.

Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, I thought there was a rant coming. No, no, no, no. I'm letting the folks know we back. And them bandwagoners, we heard, we heard y'all the first two months of the season. Oh, Joel and B not coming back. Joellen B is heard.

Listen, I'm not a bandwagoner, but I was obviously being crucial. of the big fella. But hey, he is cooking now. Now he's back. Going back to 30 plus with ease. Tyrese maxi averaging like 32 during his five game span that a B's been back. The six has won the last nine out of 12 games.

Right now on the Westcoast swing with the bad teams on the West. Played the Jazz, played the Blazers, beat both of them. They got the Kings, I believe, on New Year's Day. And I think they followed up with the Warriors who have lost the last seven out of nine. Hey, it's looking good, bro. It's looking good. And then we go to Brooklyn before we go back home. And then after that, there's a gonlet that comes to Philly.

But still, man, six is a good right now. What didn't I tell you all? All they had to do was just get everybody healthy. Everything's going to be fine. Not, not. Easter conference finals before you know it. Not everything is, not everything is peaches and cream, though. I will say this.

Paul George, you know, obviously I live in Philly, grew up in Philly. I hear a lot of people talk about Paul George and his impact on the games because he's not scoring as many points. I believe the last three games he's had. Nine points versus the Blazers. He had 13 versus Jazny at 12 versus Celtics on Christmas Day, which isn't Paul George like at all. I mean, his field percentage is pretty down too.

But I will say this. He just looks markedly better than anything Tobias Harris could have ever given us. Caleb Martin is shooing his mind out. Yo, Yabuselli carried over from playing in the Olympics. Man, it's up, man. It's up. I'm happy, man. I'm happy. Cool. Cliff gets to end the year on a high note.

I love it. All right. Well, we got in the mailbag. All right. first mailback question. Hey guys. Longtime fan, first time email it. Quickly before my mailback question got to give Roger some love. It's been almost two decades, but I still remember Rod going ham. That was all cats, by the way, on the Clippers in the 2006 playoffs, dropped in 33 or 35 in a game for it that the son should have won. I loved you on that

son's team and still bummed. We didn't get more seasons with that court together. Here's the question. Why are so many punits hammering on shortening the NBA's regular season? I don't get it. I love the long history and related historical precedent of the 82 game season. That every year 30 teams start out with a shot to take down the 73 and 9 warriors. Watching teams chase the 96 Bulls record was incredible for 30 years. I don't understand how people would easily throw that history out. To say nothing of the associated regular season records for player stats, lifetimes, records, etc. I also love that I can turn on my TV almost every night during the regular season and catch great games.

I'm a Celtics guy, but also just a fan of basketball and being able to catch an SGA. game or Wemby or see how the Hawks are jelling without having to make a plan to watch is amazing. See also the relative ease of catching a game in person thanks to the loaded schedule. I don't make a dime on any basketball game and don't care about how much money owners make. I'm still an 82 game guy through and through. Thanks for the pod.

S. I think his name is Seth. He spells a kind of weird. S-E-Y-T-H. So I believe that's, Seth. Go ahead, Howard. I appreciate the love though, Seth. Thanks for the shout out.

So I'm not one who's ever argued against the 82 game season or has ever been on the bandwagon of we've got to shorten the season. But I understand the arguments for it. There's two main reasons that we keep coming back to this. One is concerns over wear and tear on the players. We are in an era of load management and sports science and a lot more knowledge about what players are going through. But also because of all of that, medical staffs want to curtail their, their minutes, their games, they want to reduce the wear and terror. They want to, you know, extend their careers.

And that then causes a headache for the league because then players don't play and people complain. And then when the ratings go down, everybody blames load management among other things. So there's that part of it. There's that tension, how to best schedule the season that allows players to play at their best for the highest percentage of game. And the argument goes that it's a shorter season. Maybe now you won't need load management.

Maybe you won't have back-to-backs. Maybe you can get the best out of guys for a higher percentage of a shorter season. So that's argument one. Argument two for shortening the season is kind of about just, for lack of a better term, just like, you know, that's overload. There's just too much product. We are living in a time of League Pass, satellite TV, cable, everything, whatever, all of it, you can watch everything all the time.

There is an argument for scarcity. And so to the extent that ratings have taken a hit in the people unplugging from cable era, and to the extent that maybe doesn't feel as special anymore, each game doesn't provide the same impact. The reason the NFL is so popular in part is there's only X number of games, and it's the short season, short er. every game has a lot of weight attached to it. And the NBA with an 82 game season does not.

But of course, that's been the case for its entirety of its existence. So I don't know. People's viewing habits have changed. The culture has changed. The world has changed. Maybe in this era, if you were starting from scratch, you would not opt for an 82 game season. But I understand Seth's point here, which is that you abandon it. A lot of history gets lost.

Reference points get lost. it would feel very strange, but there are good solid arguments to be made for doing it, Rod. Yeah, I'm not, I listen, I think you laid that out pretty well. I'm not going to dive into, I'm fine with 82.

Like, I'd also be fine if it was 60 something. Like I don't, like who started, when they started the league with the amount of teams they had, who the hell said 82? Like, that's no magic to that. Like, that's crazy. The pushback I always gave why I was here is like baseball,

but they're two completely different sports in terms of what they do to your body. I'm not lobbying for either one. I'm fine with the 82. I would just say, you know, when ownership started giving players the taste of rest, just to rest, for rest for rest's sake,

rest for injury prevention's sake. And players started feeling what it felt like to not play 82, just to have that one extra day off in the middle of the week, you were going to have people that were like, yo, I like the way that feels. You were, because when you play 82 games, like ask anyone who made a living playing 82 games over the course of,

let's say, seven or more years, how their joints, their back, their knees, their ankles feel right now, and they'd be like, yeah, that's a lot. Now, you make a really good living doing it. No one's crying about that. But if you said you could, you know, make a very comparable living playing 60, you might get some takers. I don't think it's happening anytime soon or probably ever. So we don't really have to worry about it.

But I appreciate the question. I appreciate the shout out too. All right. Next question. Your real ones. In the last episode with the Green Ranger, Danny Green, you two spoke about the current state of the NBA and how current superstar players have not taken on the responsibility of being ambassadors, stewards of the game and how it is not enough to just play great and play hard. that today's younger stars are not like Stefan LeBron, who know how to help the league market itself.

This was good stuff, Rajah, Howard, and Danny. I think Victor Wimbignama cares a lot, all caps. I think he wants to be truly great and also the face of the NBA. If he watches one-on-one interviews with KOC and his interviews with media, he makes himself available and a lot and has talked about being the face of the league one day as a possibility and responsibility of it. He wants to compete. He wants the bright lights, the attention, and he wants to do it all.

I think he will be a great ambassador of the league and he amazes current and past players, coaches, execs, and also brings in young NBA fans as well as some old heads. I think his play and his intelligence and openness, authenticity will really shine as his career develops. He seems like he is on the path to be that dude, all caps. Keep up the great work.

Peace, Andrew. Yes, sir, Drew. I like, I like Wendy. The first thing I'd say is, I would agree. I've seen him engage a little bit. I've seen him in interviews. You know, not everyone is raised to be a pro. He was raised to be a pro, right?

Like, he gets, he gets it. You know, I think you see a generation, this is going to be really interesting. Like, you see a generation, because I reference my boys all the time. I don't know whether any of them are ever going to be a pro. Don't get me wrong.

But they've been raised as pros. So, like, we have a whole generation of guys right now that have some, sons coming up like i.e. Gilbert Arenas's son like those dudes like these guys the boozer twins like these kids are like really really good players who might have a future they've been raised kind of like Wembe probably where they know all that like is required of of being a pro so whenby was raised like that I'm going to have to win I mean right like part of that is you're going to have to lift the level of that team to a point where we're seeing you perinately in the

playoffs you guys are pushing for championships like that's critical um and then you know just generally speaking it will be interesting to see if the true face of our league um for any substantial period of time um i don't mean this in any way shape or form but like it can be European like that's that's really something that we haven't seen like singular non-American period right or yeah not American sorry yeah because I really didn't mean any like but like right because the faces of our league, at least, you know, not necessarily all singularly, but we've always had one of those. But I love the Wemby thing because I think he does get it and he's been raised to do it.

Got to win. Yeah, it's funny. I think because of the fact that we've never really had a quote unquote face of the league be an international player, we just assume that, oh, you know, because the end of the, you know, this is a North American based sport and the majority of the audience is U.S. based. Obviously, there's a massive global audience as well, but that the face of the league somehow has to be American because we assume that our fellow Americans only want to root for other American players or will only embrace them and put them on that kind of pedestal. I don't think that that's

actually provably true. I think that we've only been in the international era truly. And yes, great, we have Akeem. We have, you know, Ku Kluchim and Draza Petrovich and Vladivats and whatever. You can go back decades and find other international players. We've never been truly this international with a quarter of the league being from outside the U.S. until the last, whatever, 10 years or so that it's been truly this integrated globally. So we don't have enough test cases. That's the first part. The second thing is that I think so much of this is just specific to the individual, Raja, if you're the best player in the league or one of the top three or four players in the league, you still do not elevate to face of the league or among the

standard bearers unless you do other things. So there's three things I think it takes to be the face of the league. Individual greatness, duh, that, you know, that's, that's, you know, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe, LeBron, Steph, all the way through. Do you have to have the team success? Because if you're individually great, but you're constantly falling short or you don't make it to the finals, or you don't win championships, it's really hard to then be the face of the league. So you've got to have, so now it's how well do the team surround you with talent? So there's, there's a piece of it that's not even your control. And the other part of it, I think, is very much about personality. Stefan LeBron have been the faces of the league, not just because they've combined for, what,

eight championships, but, and went head to head all those years. That helps too. But these guys, we've gotten to know them. One of the points I was trying to make on the pod last week was just about the lack of engagement, whether it's commercials, whether it's talking to the media. I know that always sounds self-serving, but we are the conduit to the fans. Guys, fans need to know you. And we've gotten a lot of Stefan LeBron in their careers. We know a lot about them. They have been very forthcoming, very available over the course of their careers.

And they're engaging dynamic, magnetic personalities. And again, that goes back to why I was bringing up like Yokic and Donchich last week. It's not that they're foreign. It's not that they have accents. It's not that they have, uh, you know, different markings on the, you know, whatever, the accents on their name and everything. It's not because of that. It's fine. If, if Luca and Yokic were going head to head every year for the title, and on top of that were really warm magnetic personalities that engaged with the media and fans a lot,

or at least more than they do, not trying to pick on them, we would see them differently. It's not because they're foreign. If, if, if Luca and Yokic had the, exact same profile as players, but their last names were Smith and Jones. They still wouldn't be the faces of the league right now because of everything else. It's because of either lack of success at the highest level in Lucas case when, you know, look, you made the finals for the first time this year where he's getting closer. It's more, I think it's more about everything else. Like Luca doesn't do commercials. Yokic has done only a few. They're not the most willing interview subjects. They're pretty private. And that's their, that's their, that's their,

their prerogative. I will say about Wembe real quick, just to close the thought here. Wembe was in Brooklyn. He was in New York of Brooklyn last week for games against the Knicks and Nets. And the morning after the game in Brooklyn, which I took my daughter to, she had a great time. It was fun to watch. Not one of his better nights, but was still awesome to watch. The next morning, he put on social media, hey, I want to play chess. Where should I go? He ends up at Washington Square Park in Manhattan playing chess. like that's awesome like that's what i'm talking about so yes uh to our our our listener email writer yes yes yes i absolutely agree it doesn't matter where wambi's from it doesn't matter that he's

french um he is a very warm and engaging personality the individual greatness is already there and growing the team success i think will come before too long but he's got to check those boxes like he's got to consistently be one of the better players or one of the best in the league and then, yeah, I absolutely positively think that Victor Wimbonyama can be the face of the league. I don't care where he's. Yeah, no doubt. Let me have one question. I'm sorry, I know we're going to get out of here.

Can you remember a time where that got dumped in someone's lap that didn't want that? Like they were just such a great player that like you can't maybe laugh. I would argue maybe Larry Bird. Like I don't know that Larry Bird wanted to be the face of the league. He didn't, but like because he was. You can tell by Larry Bird's career after he was. done with everything, right? Coached, had to be available. Front office guy had to be available, but not that much. And now you don't hear from him at all. He doesn't want anything to do

with anything. I think Vince Carter was a little bit of that, right? But that was a lot about the next Jordan pressures too. And Vince, I think arguably was among the faces of the league during that period of time post-Jordan. But yeah, not everybody wants it. Not everybody can handle it. Not everybody embraces it. Luca and Yokic in particular, clearly, don't seem to want it. I'm not saying they don't want the success. They obviously do, but I don't think they want the pressures and the burden of being facing them.

Got it. All right. We had a lot of good emails, folks. So thank you for all of those. We will stash those away, try to get them, get to them. I don't know, who knows? Maybe we'll do a bonus mailbag segment on Friday to get to a few of the rest. And if not, then possibly next Tuesday when Logan Murdoch returns.

Yeah. We will be back Friday. And in the meantime, everybody, have a great New Year's. Rajah, Cliff, thank you guys. Thanks for everything this year. Have a wonderful, safe New Year's tonight. Happy New Year, everybody. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas

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