The Ringer NBA Show - Klay Thompson’s Return to the Court and All That Comes With It | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

Logan and Raja talk about the atmosphere and mythos surrounding Klay Thompson’s long-awaited return to basketball on Sunday night, as well as the on-court implications for the role players who have stepped up this season in his absence (0:30). Then they talk about the issues the Nets are running into with Kyrie playing part time (23:50) and whether Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown fit together on the court (33:15). Host: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Top MMA voices, Ariel Hwani, Chuck Mindenhall, and Pizzie Carroll are live on the Spotify Greenroom app for every major MMA card with the Ringer MMA show. Hear the guys react to weigh-ins in real time and find out what they think of the fights the moment the final card ends. Plus, when breaking MMA news happens, they'll be live to talk to you about it. And if you miss the Green Room show, you can hear it as a podcast anytime on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's popping?

Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. We're going to have, we have a whole slate of shit to talk. about Roger, but you know, I just want to give you a minute to gloat real quick. John Morant had a yet another huge block. It was one of the greatest blocks I've ever seen. Go ahead. Just floor is yours real quick. No, just want to, I mean, if not the one of the most electrifying players in the league. That's all. I mean, I don't think it's disputable at this point. I've been trying to tell you,

if you weren't listening, just go Google, Chrome, whatever your search engine is. Just go look up the block. Like, just put it in the block. Just put it in the block. Put that up there. If you want a little bonus material after that, search John Moran dunk against the Lakers because that gets lost in the conversation because the block was just absolutely absurd. But he ducked.

He ducked so he didn't hit his head on the rim on the dunk. Like, you got to understand. After he jumped to the top of the backboard to block a shot. I'm just saying, man, I don't want to make this a John Moran. I mean, but John Moran's making it a John Moran thing, so I can't help it. But that's all I'm going to say. Just do yourself a favor.

sponsored by Job Morant Place Ha ha ha ha All right, let's get to the shit Um, Rajah had the honor and the pleasure last night to be at Chase Center. Oh my God. When did you get there?

Oh, okay. So like, I got there. Game starts local time 5.30. I got there at 235. You were there for the entire, the entire pregame? Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, you know,

especially like, during the season. I've been going to, you know, I'll see the pregame festivities, you know, and then maybe leave, deck out maybe after the first half or something like that.

I've been doing that for Warriors games, you know, just, you know, just want to get home and watch the rest of the game at the crib, you know,

you know, people out there might not see that, but, you know, when you go watch it at home on the couch, it's sometimes it's better, right? This time,

no, fuck that. I was locked in. I got there at 2.35. On a football Sunday, mind you. You know? Mm. Got there.

You know, it's something about when the arena is just empty, but there's a buzz there. It was a buzz. I hadn't seen a buzz like this in Chase Center ever, but I hadn't seen a buzz like this around a Warriors game. And at least two, two and a half years since they were like, this was the biggest, it felt like a finals game. Everybody was there. They like walk in and then Steph runs out. Steph has on the Clay Thompson jersey. I'm like, oh shit.

Just to warm up. Right? He's just warming up, right? And then, you know how you hear somebody before you see them? You hear just, not necessarily them, but you hear just like the, oh. Yeah. So I'm baseline next to Chris Mullen, humble flex. Shout out to Chris Mullen, the OG.

And it's just the audible. It's like, it was like a wrestling match. because it's like, it's like the, huh? And then it's like the, yeah. And it's like the, oh! And then Clay comes out. And Clay is like pumping up the crowd. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Get the fuck up. Get the fuck up. For the warm up. For the warm up. Does this and does like three circles around. You know that in the little general area going like this, has the headband on, and then hits his first five threes. And the crowd goes bananas.

Mind you, there's an hour before. the game is starting. It's not even like, they haven't even done anything yet. It's not even, there's nothing that's going on. And then, like he works out for about 20 minutes.

It's packed. It's great. And then we get to the player intros. And normally the Warriors players are pretty good, but they milked this shit today. They, yesterday they milked it. They had the,

on the jumbotron, he's back. Then, then Steph goes, Steph's usually last to get announced what they put Clay's last. to be announced. And it was packed.

Then the crowd went. I had never heard that type of cheer at Chase Center. The acoustics were used at Chase Center. Well, they did Clay Thompson. It was like a fucking finals yell. It was like, ah, right? Then he fucking, then he fucking throws up some bullshit in the first play of the game and it goes in.

And then they're just ready to rock. Yeah. Then he proceeds to miss it. tight curl. Let me throw this finger rollish, like flip shot up. So should I ain't never seen him do? Like, you know,

definitely not in his normal bag. That's not in his bag. He was, and then, and then he misses, he used to miss his next five shots, right? Because they're just,

but then he's, this is the crescendo moment. He fucking sees Jared Allen on the switch. Jared reaches. He goes to the cup. Dokes on like three dudes. It's over. The roof is off of Chase at this point.

There's no one, E40's out on the corner just going stupid. Like, just everybody is just going bananas. It was a good old Warriors game, man. It was a throwback game. Glad Clay's back. It was a great time. And there's probably, I mean, I know the answer to this, but it would be impossible to get a feel last night for what they might look like with Clay introduced.

He shot 18 shots in 20 minutes. So there's no real way. I mean, everything was clay-centric last night. There's no way to see or take anything away from the performance last night. Absolutely not. Okay, fair. There's no, there's nothing to say. I was going to, I was thinking about, he was on such a adrenaline, especially at the end of the, you'll appreciate this.

He was, because I think it's been like 943 days since he's played the game. That's been a long time. And so at the post game, and normally like I'll dip after the post game, you know, I'll probably leave. I usually don't stay that long, but I stayed. And boy, it was a long time because you know this. Your motherfuckers take a long time to come to get dressed and to talk and to just, you guys take a long-ass time. It depends on the, it depends on the scenario, the type of game, the gravity of the moment,

and, you know, whether or not someone played well. I mean, because you could get a quick exit for me sometimes. What were you? Were you a quick guy? Were you a quick guy? It depends. Obviously, if I played, if I played a quick exit. anywhere in my normal average range or better.

Yeah, I'd probably just... We're gonna have to wait, huh? I took a little longer, yeah, because I, you know, I'd ice and be in a cold tub. Would you guys consciously just make us make you motherfuckers wait? I don't do that, no. But there would be the occasion if I was really pissed where you, I'm gone. Like, I'm in and out.

You might miss me because I'm gone. How do y'all like, Brett, we'll get back to Clay in a second. But when I, when I, how do you guys get out so fast? Y'all shower and dip or y'all just, y'all stink and y'all just go home? Like, how does this work? I've never left an arena in the NBA, I should say, because in high school we did it without the shower. I'm never taking the shower pill in the NBA.

I've seen it done. I've seen it done a lot, but I've never done it. So you take the quick shower, you know, you wrench off, wrench off, and then get the hell out of there. Y'all know all the little areas leave where we can't even see y'all. Y'all know all the little docks and crannies in the arenas, bro. Y'all know how to duck us, but shout. Every good PR person has.

the escape hatch on deck. It's not for everyone to use, but some people have access to the escape hatch. The thing about Chase Center is they have so many different ones. We will be sight unseen. There is no way. If you wanted to duck us and never talk to the media,

shout out to Raymond Redder, who will make your ass talk to the media. But if you don't on an off night, there's like seven different doors you can go. There's like seven different back caves. There's seven different, like there's so many ways you can duck us if you want to. But So Clay, this is getting put some perspective.

Steph is usually the last person, like, to talk. And he takes like an hour after the game, hour and a half sometimes. Clay came after him. So we had to wait. But I think you'll appreciate this. He was just so reflective. And one of the things that really, that kind of made me choke up, but really just was like, damn, that's real.

He was like, first he said, he was like, yeah, I was minus two for the night. but it looks so good to see my name on a box score again and see and look and look and see that I was 7 of 18 he was like I can't wait to watch film tonight I can't wait to do all these things because it's been so long and he's been seeing and he's been looking at box scores and all these things but to see his name on a box score was the biggest takeaway for him as an NBA player Raja how much would you relate to just even that feeling of having that because that That touched me. I was like, oh, it was all the feels, all the vibes from Clay.

Well, I can't, you know, it's hard because I, you know, I missed a season with injury, with an injured wrist. I only missed, you know, like three quarters of the year or something like that. So I don't have that type of layoff that Clay had. I couldn't even imagine. But coming back after that year off for me was really, really exciting. It was nerve-wracking. You know, there was such a, such a, like, a mix of emotion.

emotions, right? And the roller coaster ride that was the week leading up to my first game coming back was exhausting. And so I kind of, I watched that press conference and I heard him talk. And, you know, I thought he approached it. I thought he approached it like an adult, you know, like he's got a real good feel for, you know, what's important. He talked about just kind of being out, being out in nature with his dog and walking around and kind of, you know, staying off the phone. And, you know, I thought that was a good way to approach it because you can get really swept up, you know, in the emotions and the what the what ifs. And, you know, the box, the box score is interesting, right? Because, like, you don't think much about it. Like, it's, you know, fans are like, yeah, it's a box score, like, whatever. But, you know, sometimes looking at that box score, you're just so conditioned to do it at the end of the night to either validate, you know, like what you just put out there on wax or, like, to kind of, you know, kick yourself in the ass. Like, damn, I really did go one for 13, you know? Like, you're like, shit. But in either case, you were out there.

Yeah. Like, that's it. It's, it's, it's, those box scores live on forever. You know what I mean? So it's, you're like, yo, I was, I was out there on the court. And it's, it sounds corny, but, you know, it's a real thing. Like, I miss seeing my name on a box score. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, when you, you're like, damn, bro, like, I'm, okay, so let me put it in, because I'm getting lost in my thought here. When I was back in the NBA and I worked for the Cavs, I was a part of what was going on. I had a role in that organization. You know, we were playing in a championship. I was on every trip. There was no name in the box score. You know?

Like, I wasn't affecting the outcome the way I was used to affecting the outcome, and I missed that, right? Like, I was yearning for that. Even Griff would say, like, you really want to be, you probably should coach because it's going to get you closer to that. It doesn't look like this is enough for you. And that's kind of what I guess he was saying. It's as close as I could get to it.

It's like, hey, man, I'm back in it. Like, he was a great teammate. He held his, you know, young fellas down. You could see him over there imparting wisdom and being that good vet for guys when he couldn't be on the court. And that's a role. But it ain't like being out there having your hands in it, you know? No, man.

And it was, like, you could tell a lot about a player by how the rest of the bench reacts when that player does a good. They were on the, they were jumping around. There was another, so Jremont had pulled his calf, I guess, in pregame warm-ups and fucked him up, right? Like, but he started the game and fouled Darius Garland, but started the game just so he could, and then missed the rest of the game, fouled Darius Garland and missed the rest of the game, but wanted to be on the floor with Clay for his return game. wanted to make sure he was there. Yeah, that's big time.

Pulled calf is very, is very painful, too. Very painful and all some shit you should sit down for. You're like, I don't sound like any much, but you better sit down if you got anything calf-related. Yeah, so you're tearing Achilles. Yep.

But it was funny, though, but the first play of the game was a design play for Clay to pass the ball. He caught that ball one time and was like, nope. That's the curl. That's the curl. It was for him to pass it. He said,

I saw a late. Fuck it. I'm going. Gotta have it. I loved it. I loved it. You know, what you don't get to see as a fan is, and if you'd listen and really dug into what he was saying in his press conference, is the rehab that goes into a single injury of any

magnitude, like any type of real surgery where they got to open you up and repair a major ligament. The tediousness of the rehab and how slow it can take and the invariable setbacks that come on the road to recovery, right? Like, and you're moving, it's really slow. It's grueling. It's tedious. You're taking these baby steps. You make a little breakthrough, and you think, you know, you're only up from here.

And then two weeks later, you're doing this mundane shit. And boom, you got to set back, you know? And that just happens over and over again. And so it's this steady stock market type of like climb. Like you're up, and then it's down a little. And then you're up. Now you plateaued a little. But now we're down and now we're up.

And people don't see the work, the time. the literal blood, sweat, and tears that go into that. And the loneliness. Oh, absolutely, the lonely. Everybody's out on the court and you're in the back, or everyone's out on the court, you're over there on the side, like just trying to get range of motion back, like getting stretched. Like, you know, you can't shoot while they're all shooting,

so they all leave, and now you've got to get your court time in. So it can be lonely. Teammates see that. They see what you pour into that. And I'm talking about a single injury, not too catastrophic ones. So when you say that everybody over there on that sideline, it tells a lot about, you know, how much they care about him and how much they love him. And it also tells a lot about how much they respect the grind that he had to go through to get back, you know?

And that's what kind of gets missed, right? Like a guy just doesn't show up on your TV for a while and he comes back. And everybody's got this judgment on whether he's great again or he's not great again or, you know, we do it too. It's our job, right? Yeah. But you often forget about what it took just to get back to a point where you could lace them up in the NBA again. All right, let's get to the basketball portion of this. So what did you, I know there's not much you can, I don't know, I'll push back on it.

There's a little, some things you can see from the game and things like that of what could be. But what did you see from a basketball standpoint, maybe good or bad, maybe something we should be concerned about, something that we should be happy about. What do you see from this Warriors team with Clay back in the boat? Well, it's going to be a redefinition of some roles, right? Yeah. And, you know, like Jordan Poole came off the bench last night. night, right? Yeah. So he comes to mind first and foremost in terms of a guy that was asked to do a lot of

scoring, had a lot of ball in his hands. And now, you know, you're coming back with Clay. Now you're coming off the bench. Coming off the bench helps a little bit because, you know, six men can come in. Yeah, six men come in. They get the ball in their hands, right? It's your job. Come in and infuse some energy into the offense, you know, keep scoring against the second unit. But I think as a team, there's going to be a little bit of that, Andrew Wiggins as well, right? Like guys who've never really played with him at any length before, maybe even, you know, those other pieces like Juan Susano and people like that. Clay looked a little heavy, in my opinion, but I think that's, I mean, to be expected, it's not a knock. It's just when you're coming back, you know, it's going

to take a while to get into real game shape. And then it's, to some degree, the jury's out on whether, on whether his legs are going to allow him to really move the way Clay Thompson used to move, you know, and what percentage of himself is he, right? Like, we talked about KD coming back, and KD came back at a very high percentage of himself. It's almost negligible. Like, you wouldn't even be able to tell, right? That's still TBD with Clay, you know? How do his legs respond once he gets 20 games in? Like, can he still move? Can he defend the way? Because one of the best parts of Clay, you know, aside from just this incredible stroke was he was one of the best two-way players in the league. Yeah.

Does he still have his lateral burst? Can he stay in front of people? You know, there's a lot that they got to figure out. But I think they will. And they got a great coach. They got a great culture. And I think it gets done. I think that, you know, I saw Clay walking up to the podium.

And I don't want to read too much into this, but it was definitely one of those heavy legs limp. You know, when your legs are just hella heavy after playing a game. And it was one of those. You could tell that he had played a basketball game. my thing is it's similar to when you were talking about Steph a couple weeks back in terms of rhythm and him chasing when Steph was chasing the rhythm and how it sacrificed rhythm. I think the same could be one of the concerns I would have with, at least in the short term, not in the long term, but in the short term, trying to find your rhythm to get clay back into the fold. I think that's something that should be looked at.

I think that that'll ultimately work itself out. But, you know, there's, Clay's not going to shoot it. I don't think Clay's going to shoot 18 shots. There's going to be nights where he, where, like, he's just not, you might think he's not himself because he's trying to get his win back.

I don't know how long that's going to be, but I think that there's something, a cause that might be pause. They lose some games that you think, like, oh, why do the fuck they lose his game? But there's going to be some games like that to where, you know, where Clay's just not, he doesn't have that jolt of energy.

Yeah. And I think, you know, one of your points there was one that I was kind of, and I was thinking about it's the amount, it's the volume of shots that he's going to get in like 18 and 20 minutes. That can't be his role on this team. That was a first night out of the box, the celebratory moment of Clay Thompson and his return to the Golden State Warriors,

and it was dope, you know, but I think Clay, like there are two ways to approach it. And I mean, this is purely opinion. You could say if you're Steve Curran company, hey, we're going to force this back. we're going to just keep forcing stuff at Clay. It might cost us in the short term, but in the long run, we're going to be better for having the Splash Brothers back and be firing on all cylinders.

And then the other way would be to have Clay play this complimentary or more complimentary than before type of role, where he gets it when he gets it. And if he gets hot, you know, it is what it is, but he's not real focal point of your offense until, you know, he really gets cooking again. And again, that could take, you know, that could take the end of it.

of this year going into next year, just because he's had such a long layoff. I don't know how Golden State approaches it. If I were them and if I were Clay, they're already playing really well this year. Yeah. I would be as complimentary as I could be. They're going to be nights where I get 25, 26, 27.

There might be other nights where I get 8 to 10. You know what I mean? But, like, I don't know that I would force it at him right now. Number one, I don't know if he can handle it, like, physically. But number two, we really are playing well. And also, like, they don't need, they don't, they don't, If there's one thing the warriors don't need is extra scoring, like they're fine. They're okay.

I think, you know, when pool gets hot, Wiggins can, can score at a nice clip. We have, they have Steph on the team. I don't think that they, they don't need him to be a 20 point per game score. They need him to just fit in right now. That's what the warriors need. And I agree. But sometimes it's deeper than that. Like, when you have a guy of that ill coming back into the fold, you know?

And I don't know Clay like that. I think that he will be fine except in whatever role is there this year. But don't make no mistake. Like that's not your average bear. That ain't. That's not a role player coming back off of an injury, just reassuming role. That's a dude who's used to being a headliner. Like, you don't always work out that easy.

I hope it does. I think that what the Warriors need, though, man. We'll talk about this down the line. They need a front court guy, bro. They do. They need to, like, Kavana Looney bawled out at 18 rebounds on, on a

front court. And also, Cleveland is, I really like Cleveland. They're not worth talking too, too much about, but I really like Cleveland. I saw Evan Mobley and who, also, I got to apologize for a quick. I want to apologize to Jared Allen. You know, I wasn't really, I wasn't locked in

as much to his game. I didn't, like, I didn't really love that deal. Apologies, bro. Because they were balling. I really, I really, I do like what they can be Garland was balling, but I said, I'll just say, where's he the front court guy? Because Kavanaugh is great as he's been this season. They need, they need a dude.

They need a dude. And I don't know if Wiseman's going to be that. He's definitely not going to be that this season. I don't think he's going to, at the very least, he's not going to be that this season. It is, you know, it's fun to watch Golden State because they're so good offensively. But when I watched them, the last time I watched him,

I said, damn, they're rolling out there. They got Andre Agadala out there. They got Andrew Wiggins out. out there. They got Juan Tiscano Anderson out there. They got Draymond out there. And you have Steph. That is a hellified, long, rangy, versatile defensive unit. Now, Steph, Steph's not known for his defensive prowess, but besides the point. Like, they have lineups and dudes that can come in and just lock anything down. We're switching it all. We're locking it down. You know, I do agree that the one soft part, you know, is whether they can get that, that good, you know, front

you know, bolstering that they need. As far as Cleveland goes, flowers is Logan Murdoch term. I'm giving my flowers, the flowers, or their flowers. J.B. Bickerstaff. Yep. And Kobe Alman. And Kobe's my dude. But I, you know, I pride myself on being a real one.

I've been hard on Kobe. That shit was a mess the last couple years. Yeah. I didn't know where you were going with it. I couldn't see it. I don't who could see it. It's starting to come into focus a little bit, man. and J.B. Bickerstaff looks like, you know, he's a young, he's a young star in the coaching

rank. So shout out, flowers for both of them, dude. Yo, it's one thing to see, like, you know, when you see how long a team is on television, but them motherfuckers are, you know, when you go in person and you see them walk out, because I got, you obviously got there early. So Evan Mowbly walk out, dude. Just all arms and legs, bro. Yeah. You know, and then, you know, you trot that out.

You got Caleb coming off the bench, right? Like you have just dudes that are big dudes. Yep. We'll see what happens, man. They're a pretty good team. They're a pretty good team. We kind of talked about this a little bit last week, but I wanted to kind of go and talk Kyrie a little bit.

Played really well against Indiana. But I'm really skeptical about how this is going to happen. And I do see there have been some, there have been some not rumblings, but there have been some prickly moments. Like with, I saw Nick Fredell, ESPN, asked Kevin, just about Kyrie's vaccination status. And I just saw Kevin was just kind of fed up. It's about the whole thing.

It's like, yo, I can't make that man taking vaccine. We want him on the floor. We basically told him we want him on the floor. And he, I'm paraphrasing here. But basically if Kyrie, he knows what he needs to do to get on the floor, right? And Kyrie's, I think he should. in Indiana, a phenomenal player. But how do you, I saw the Indiana game,

and then I go in to watch the game against Milwaukee, where the Nets get their ass kicked at home by Yonnas. Right. And I can't help but wonder, like, how do you catch a rhythm, as consistent rhythm, when one of your best players is a part-time player, and he's in and out of the lineup?

And this isn't just somebody that's like off the bench, no, this is your star guy. This is one of your core guys. how can you reasonably expect to get a rhythm when he's like, oh, I'm just going to come on road games. Oh, but then some road games I can't go. Oh, but if we go play in Toronto, I can't necessarily be there. Y'all get it.

Y'all figure it out. And then there's this just, and then when he does play, it's just like, oh, man, I'm so happy to be back. And da-da-da-da-da. It's just a lot of things going on right now. It just doesn't feel like, doesn't feel sustainable. I don't think it's going to work, man. I do not think it's going to work as currently constructed.

I'd love to argue with you. you know I enjoy arguing with you. It's like the best part of my Mondays and Thursdays. Yes. But I cannot argue with you, Logan. It is not sustainable. This is, again, man. I feel for my man, Stevie Nash.

I just do. This is just. I haven't seen Nash smile on like two years. I haven't seen him smile. He's doing a great job. His attitude is perfect. Like, he's the perfect guy to have in the seat while all this is going on. Because he's just this eternal optimist, right?

he's always got this great energy. He's a great leader. And so he's the guy to have to kind of steer your ship through this. But this is a mess. I mean, I'd make the case that if I were his teammate, Kyrie's teammate, I could wrap my mind around losing to Brooklyn at home, I mean, losing to Milwaukee at home, and not really be looking sideways at Kyrie if he hadn't been around for a while.

Like if he was just like out of sight, out of mind, and we went and beat Indiana and then we came home and lost to Milwaukee. He'd be like, all right, whatever. I mean, Kyrie's not the first thing that comes to mind. Like, I haven't seen him in a long time. But when he's there the night before, and he helps you win and he's scoring 20-some points

and you get to see the brilliance that is Kyrie. I mean, it's human nature to be sitting there against Milwaukee. Like, what the fuck? What if we had Kyrie tonight? You know what I mean? And so that introduces a whole other level of side-eyedness where people are, like, he comes back the next night, you got motherfuckers looking at you like this and he's all and he's all chipper and stuff like hey guys

I'm here I'm back and back oh miss me with that miss me with that so I think you know that's that's one thing and then on a whole other level on a basketball like purely X is a no level I mean I know that the NBA specifically as a league isn't built on the backs of role players right it's a star driven league we everyone understands and a storyline driven league absolutely That's probably first and foremost, right? And then, you know, stars are the biggest part of winning the championship. But man, you've got to have a real stable, real locked in, real committed, real unselfish group of supporting cast type of players, role guys. They've got to be firmly entrenched in those roles.

They have to understand them inside and out. You know, that's done over the course of a season. That's achieved over 82 of them things. Like, we're in here, trial and error. We're figuring it out. Don't do that, Rod. This isn't the way I like it done. Hey, Roy, I need you over here.

Logan, hey, check this out, man. When KD does that, James is going to do this. Here's where you got to be, bro. This is what you need to do. Now, Kyrie comes in for half of those games, and it throws your role out of whack. It throws my role out of whack, just fractionally. And now we're going to not have him for, it's a mess.

It's hard to do. And so in the short term, dropping a Kyrie offensive production type of player into the lineup is great. Boom. Immediate jolt. immediate buckets, immediate, like, saving from a seven-point deficit late in the fourth quarter. But over the long term, having them missing all of those games, it can't work.

It's not going to work. And Kyrie don't, Kyrie's, I know what the hope is. The hope is you get Kyrie back in a fold. Like, he helps you in the short term. And long term, he starts to be like, oh, well, shit, I miss this, man. I really, you know, I can really dig these, this, man. Let me get my vaccination. Not happening.

Yeah. No. He don't give a shit. He's not doing that. Not. And like this is even, we're, I promise, this is not, that we're not talking about that, bro. We're talking about the specific,

we're not talking about the vaccine, none of that. We're talking about specifically just being there for your teammates, bro. Like, just literally being there. It's not about vaccinations. It's about him. It's the one thing to have side eye in like January. But like, yo, man, when it's May and we got to go play Janus and we, and the chips are on the line, or we got to go play Toronto,

or we got to go play one of these teams. And you over here like, no, bro, I'm not going to play. I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, bro, like, there's going to be some real problems in that locker room. Like, that's as nice as I can say it when it comes down to it. Because we, we know how athletes are. We know how, this is your job. This is what it is.

And you're going to just be like acting like, yo, we're going to play a part time role here. Like I said, one thing for it to be a loss of low. lost in January to Milwaukee. But it's another damn thing. When you cost me my season. Listen. Yes, season. And for some of those, for some of those vets, legacy, yes, legacies, you know, for, for

best player on the planet type of legacies like KD. And then just general career legacies for dudes like Blake Griffith. Not the best one on the planet, but needs a chip. Once a chip. Say you got a chip. Lamarcus, you know, Paul Millsap, like those dudes, right? Patty Mills got one, but like, you know, those type of deals. Also, like, let's not be for a dude, like, I don't know who some of the bottom guys on that roster are who are just, man, getting to the chip and winning the championship's a healthy bonus.

Like, that's a healthy stimulus package. Not even just the players, dog. We're talking about, you know, people that work with the team get the playoff shares. Absolutely, absolutely. You take your money off the plate, bro. Off of my plate. Off of my plate. So let me take it back to the coaching perspective, right?

Like here's what we got. We played, let's say we played Chicago in Chicago. We beat Chicago in Chicago. What I should be able to do is go to that film, right? Steve Nash, David Vantepin, Jacques Vaughn, Maristottemeyer, whoever else is there, Adam Harrington, who had the like. We're going to sit down. Here's what we did well. Here's what we didn't do well.

Here's what they had success with. how we want to counter that moving forward, start to compile this game plan because we see them in four days at the crib, right? And we just beat them. They're the top team in the Eastern Conference right now. Here's the game plan. You can't do that the same way

when one of your major players is not going to be there. So now you're developing, you know, there's no consistency in your game planning. You're game planning for games with Kyrie, and then your game planning, four games without Kyrie. So that blueprint, you got to scrap that whole blueprint.

Right? Like it worked and now I got to scrap it. Didn't. And also, because I want to get to one more thing when we get out of here. Also, you talk about like a James Hardin, right? Who was just coming into, he's just finding his rhythm again. He is just kidding.

He's cooking, right? And then, you know, he has to sacrifice his game for Kyrie. Like Kevin, I don't, Kevin never will have to sacrifice his game. He's the best player to play. He doesn't have to do it. But a guy like James Hardin, who was just, who's getting it who's getting back to that old form has to be like okay well let me take a step back and light let figure it out and then no wait hold on let me take a step forward because we're at

home now oh wait um wait um wait are we going we're going we're having a way game oh wait it's at the garden so i still got it like what am i doing i can't it's not sustainable man i i i'll just leave it at that you got any final words on this man i just can it's i don't know i mean hey i i i i hope it works because i'm not a hater in that regard i hope it works i've never seen it done before. I don't know that there's a blueprint for it. And I too believe it not to be sustainable. I hope it works. The best ability is availability. Mm. Mm. Anyway, say in the Eastern Conference and New York, bro, I watched the Celtics Knicks game. A bizarre game, man. Just a very bizarre game. Like, they're cooking. Jail is cooking,

Jason's cooking. All of a sudden, Evid Forniy just comes out and starts cooking, just starts falling. The guards are on fire. Tims are in the air, orange and blue skies, baby. You know,

it's just a vibe there. But I really want to think about the Celtics. Is that back court sustainable with Jalen and Jason Tatum? And who do you choose ultimately? Because there's going to come a time of the way it's going right now. You just got to choose up right at this point.

Who are you choosing between those two? I don't know. I don't know. I'm being honest with you. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think Jalen might have more upside than Jason Tatham.

Really? Yeah. I think, well, and the reason I say this, and again, it's my opinion, I think Jason Tatham came in as the more refined of the two players. Yes. He was already, and that's why he was better early, an offensive NBA weapon because he was that. good. Jalen has just worked his way into that. He was more raw, not, I mean, super talented, but more raw. And he's continued to get better and better. And he's more athletic, I think, slightly than Jason. But I mean, I look, man, you're, you're making either one of them give

them to me. I just don't really know. And I posed a question before. I think I, yeah, I posed it. Do they fit? Like, can I always feel like there are two players. that both are on the same trajectory as as young players, and they're not ready for the type of unwritten and understood agreement that has to happen between co-stars of a team, you know? They both want it. They both want it. And that's a good thing.

I don't know that they're ready for that. And so that, you know, I don't know. I don't know, but you could toss it up. I'm not taking anything away from Jason Tatum. He's a stone cold killer too. Jalen Brown's a boss. I don't know that they fit great. what I think the Celtics need to learn the lesson of the Portland Trailblazers right now.

And that means it doesn't matter if you make a decision, but you have to make a decision. You do, because you don't want to get into a situation where they're playing with each other and there are, where they're playing with each other, and it's clear it's over, and it's clear that you need to make a move, but to get to upgrade your team, but not, and then 10 years go by all of a sudden, will someone get injured, then you get to see the season? J. McCullen, Dame Lillard back court. And then what? Then you're doing a disservice to both players.

I think they need to make a decision. Not like in the next few years, but they need to make a decision. I think that'll be best for all parties involved. Perfect, perfect world, right? Because admittedly, I'm telling you I'm not sure, right? It was the question I pose. I'm not definitively saying they don't work together.

My eyes say they don't look like a natural fit. But they're so good, both of them. Both of them. I like a couple years. I like what you're saying there. And I think you have to start moving more pieces around them to see if maybe there's something else on that team, Marcus Smart,

or anybody else that is interrupting the flow that they could be. Do you know what I mean? Unless you've already made the determination that they don't work together and maybe the Celtics have. But if you haven't, to give it a good enough look, you're going to have to start shuffling some pieces. And if it never comes to fruition, like no matter what pieces you move around them

then you got your answer dude like no it doesn't work so great and just my pushback I think CJ and Dame there's not really an instance of those two small guards like getting it done and being the best but these neither one of these dudes are small like you know what I mean so like you know

I wouldn't I wouldn't be so quick to say that they couldn't you know I just got to figure that out I was watching a mismatch or listening to the mismatch. And KOC brought up, the real KOC, brought up a point about the Celtics not working because of leadership. And there's not a defined de facto leader. Now, you could say Marcus Smart might be one of the most vocal.

It doesn't necessarily mean people are going to follow him on this team, right? Have you seen a lack of leadership? Because I know, like, Emma Udoka has went in on them talking about their lack of toughness. It's just really just, you know, it's very interesting to hear comments like that very early on in the season from a first year head coach talking about lack of toughness. But is there something that could be done? Maybe not a trade of the two stars, but another person that does bring a leadership thing, we're like, hey, bro, that everyone tends to respect that could tell Jalen and Jason to get their shit together and just be like, hey, man, chill. And like, actually have respect. Is that, could that be a more feasible option?

at this point. Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying a minute ago. Like I, you have to, you for right now, you're not going to want to, you don't want to give one of those two dudes up. They're just both really good. They're so good. And you risk losing both of them if you give one up because you're, you're banking on one stain and nothing's guaranteed in his league. Right. And, and so when you start tinkering around the edges with them, what you're looking for are, you know, the things that they don't bring to the table. Like that's what, that's what you do in supporting roles,

is you bring something to the table that the stars don't bring. And if neither one of those guys are, are true leaders, and there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that. You can develop into that, you know,

but they've been running their own show, you know, since kind of they got there. Like, who was there, who was the guy that they looked up to, like, yo, man, this dude,

this dude is a boss. Like, he's been in for a while. Well, it should have been, but yeah, we know how that played out. So, Kari didn't provide that.

Or maybe he did. I don't know. It just didn't work out there. But the point is, if they can't do it and they're not doing it, then yes, you have to find someone who can come in and provide that type of stability, voice, leadership. You know, but I've said this a lot. It's what I used to say in meetings with, you know, our ownership and stuff in Cleveland and David Griffin about certain players.

And I don't know this to be fact about these two. I don't know them. Some players don't want to lead. and they don't want to be led. And that puts you in a really weird spot because you could bring anybody in there, the best of the best leaders. And you got this dude who's his own little entity,

you know? Like, you know, kind of an enigma as it pertains to being on a team. Like, you just, like, what do you? I mean, you're great, but what do you don't want to lead us? You don't want to follow. Like, what do you do? And that derails championships quickly. It's an interesting thing.

It's something we should keep an eye on. That's something that we'll look at down the line. But as of right now, we are out of time. We'll see you guys on Thursday, but where you go, make sure you check out our Ringer MBA slate. Make sure you check out Upside High with Jake Kyle Mann and Jonathan Charks. Make sure you check out the mismatch feed, which includes the mismatch, and includes the void for the void with KOC every Wednesday. Make sure check out the answer. Make sure you check out group chat.

Make sure you check out Black Girl Sogbook with who, Roger Bell? Town legend, Danielle Smith. Make sure you check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell. The C-C-Clown. Vallejo's finest. Vallejo legend. Cici Samathia. See you guys, Thursday.

Halla.