The Ringer NBA Show - Knicks Running Out of Gas? Plus, Predictions for the MUST-SEE T-Wolves vs. Nuggets Game 7.

Episode Date: May 18, 2024

Live on The Ringer NBA YouTube channel immediately following Indiana’s Game 6 win over New York, The Ringer’s Seerat Sohi and Michael Pina offer immediate reaction to Friday’s sole playoff game (00:40). The duo talks about impressive performances from Pascal Siakam, Myles Turner, and … T.J. McConnell?! They also discuss the physical and emotional toll the playoffs have taken on the Knicks, before Seerat and Michael dole out their predictions for the winner-take-all Game 7 on Sunday (31:48). After that, Seerat and Michael grab their popcorn to preview one of the most highly-anticipated non-Finals Games 7 in NBA history: T-Wolves vs. Nuggets (32:56). They talk about the legacies on the line in this game, why Anthony Edwards’s demeanor reminds Seerat of a young Dwyane Wade, why Michael expects Nikola Jokic to have an otherworldly performance, and more, before the pair finishes off by giving their predictions. For more live streams throughout the NBA playoffs, subscribe to The Ringer NBA YouTube channel here. Hosts: Seerat Sohi and Michael Pina Producer: Troy Farkas Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Jonathan Frias Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join me, Danny Kelly, along with Danny Hyfitz and Craig Horlbeck every week on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show as we prepare for the 2024 fantasy football season. We'll cover all the biggest news and topics across the league as well as whatever weird topics our listeners email us about. That's the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify. Hello and welcome to a live edition of the Ringer NBA show. I'm Sirits Sohey, joined by Michael Pina. We are coming to you after a 116, 101. elimination game victory by the Pacers. And if you were watching the game,

you know that it felt a lot worse than 13 points for the Knicks. This was a game that in the second half, the Pacers just dominated. They were awesome. Pina, there are so many things we can talk about it about, but I feel like we have to start with Pascal Seaccom. He had such a special performance. In a strange way, it feels like the box score stats

don't actually capture how important he was to this game, 25 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 21 shots. But I feel like the real issue is that he was able to basically look at any New York coverage and say, I got this, you know, and at the most opportune times as well. What did you think of Seacom today? Seacom was, he was great. And I feel like his performance really speaks to, just how banged up the New York Knicks are.

I mean, O.G. and Inobie's absence was really felt in this game. Josh Hart going out early with the abdominal injury. And then, well, he left the game late, didn't return, but was hampered with an abdominal injury, the entire game pretty much. He could do nothing with Siakum. So Tom Thibodeau had to put Isaiah Hartnstein on him and then Presta Chua. And then you had to play these lineups that had Precious and Isaiah Hartenstein in them. And those lineups just get absolutely obliterated on offense, can't score. at all. So I feel like Siakum was this, just this mismatch hunting demon, really, than this game. And the New York Knicks had no

response for him defensively. And I'm curious to see how that carries over. We don't know Josh Hart's situation. But going forward into a game seven, I don't know how the Knicks stop Siakum if he gets it going, just because of how he gets buckets. And the way he impacts the game also, you know, he had three, quick offensive rebounds on the offensive glass and is able to attack from the mid-range, able to attack in transition. So he was just fantastic tonight.

And I feel like we could have a whole Ciacom conversation honestly to take over this live YouTube stream right now. I'm here for it. I'm here for it. That rebound that he had off the free throw, the one that Josh Hart got, he just snatched it and spun away. And then I think they just called it on the floor

for the Pacers. That was insane. And I feel like that he just came into the game immediately sort of wanting to set a tone. And to your point, he was surgical as well. Like the reason that the Knicks didn't have an answer is also because sometimes in these moments, you know, we talked about this with Harry Taliburton. You get the mismatch, but you don't go for it. And I think that something that's been so impressive about Seacum through the playoffs, not just this game, but definitely this game too is that every time he gets a mismatch, not only does he know how to attack it, but he demands that, you know, he be given the ball and do something with it or at least create an advantage.

Like one of the best examples of that to me was Josh Hart checks back into the game. And immediately, see, Ackham is like, me, give me the ball. Give me the ball. Every time. Every time. And he just knew. He knew that a hampered Josh Hart couldn't guard him. And they start doubling that open stuff up for the Pacers.

Then they have to start switching their matchups. He can blow by Isaiah Hartinstein. With precious, man, I just feel like it's one of those things. Like those guys used to be teammates. I feel like with precious, it's one of those things where. He just knows what to do. You can tell he's had so many reps on that guy. And it's just like, okay, I know I can shoot the mid-range jumper over you.

He was so confident. It almost reminded me of like when you see the like a guy who's, and he's been there. He's like, you can feel that he has been there, right? When you watch him play. Like he is one of finals before. He just has this calm about him. And it felt like he came into this game sort of understanding the narrative, understanding, okay, you know, to Halliburton's credit, he was a lot more aggressive

today, but it felt like Siakum came in and he was like, I have to be aggressive. I have to be the guy. Honestly, you could feel a little bit of that from Andrew Nemhard at the start of the game too. The amount of time, I loved it. Like, the amount of times Andrew Nemhard was like, it's actually Andrew Nemhard time right now and came out successful. It was awesome. But that is, that is, but that is like the one thing I probably worry about with the Pacers going down to New York. Like, The role players haven't really been able to get their shots off. And if you do get the same Siakum, I imagine that some of those double teams will be a little bit more successful on the road. But we also just don't know what's happening with Josh Hart, who actually didn't come back into the game.

They cited him leaving with abdominal pain. I'm sure we'll get an update on that. The Knicks have like 36 hours before they play again. And this time they have to travel too. And this is the exact same scenario they were in when they got blood. blown out in game four the Friday to Sunday turnaround. They get to go home, but this time they have to travel. I just want to say when you said Andrew Nemhart's name, he got a stop on Jalen Brunson

tonight. And I feel like we should point that out and let off some fireworks or something in honor of that moment because we haven't seen it for this entire series. So shout out to him. Yeah, very happy for him. And it's also funny, just we can move on from Seacom in a second. but even describing it as mismatch hunting, which is something I said and you alluded to, it's like it's not really mismatch hunting.

Those are just like the people that are covering him. And so, yeah, you have to, he draws two basically just on the catch when he's isolating. And they do a great job of putting him in the middle of the floor too where you can't double him. And he's just, he was just picking them apart with those elbow pull-ups. And I think the way that Indiana plays, obviously, they want to run and transition every opportunity that they get. And that's where you really get some of the mismatches where there was one play where Miles McBride was stuck on him and then you got a double and then you're in rotation. And that's really not what the New York Knicks want.

But I thought Indiana did a fantastic job of taking care of the ball, didn't turn it over and dominated on the offensive glass as a team. But the other thing is just like Jalen Brunson. I feel like we should talk about Jalen Brunson, who is the New York Knicks in a lot of ways, right? Like he's their whole team. And quite literally right now at this point as we just keep losing bodies and bodies and bodies. It's yeah,

it's pretty rough out there. The one thing I'll say about Siakum, the last thing, I just want to shout at this play because I loved it. It was just such beautiful basketball in the half court. Third quarter, I think about four minutes off to go. They run a pick and roll.

And it was right after Seaccom hit a made ring jumper. So the pick and roll adjusted that. They get the ball out to Isaiah Jackson, who then has a much better angle to hit. hits the acum and he just hits the exact same mid-range jumper over like again. And that's what the Pacers also look like at home at their best. I don't know. I don't know if we'll get that in game seven,

but they are a joy to watch half the time. I feel like that's what I'm going to remember about this team. But yeah, moving on to Brunson, much tougher game for him. And again, another one where I don't think the box score really gets to how difficult it was. So granted, he did have to take 26 shots. I think that's probably the stat that you look at and say that's most important. That's what it took for him to get the 31 points. He did also get loose when the game was over. But after we're having this whole conversation about what is Andrew Namhart

doing on Jalen Brunson perpetually? And why are they trying to guard him with one guy, whether it's Namhart or Neesmith and T.J. McConnell, we have to talk about in depth at some point tonight. Absolutely. But he probably does the best job on him. But he just did, like they just, they just They threw so many different looks at him, which I thought was really smart because Brunson's such a good problem solver that if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, it just doesn't really work. That Brunson McRide pick and roll, pick and pop action, which was incredible for them. The last game was still not bad for them, but just, you know, I think the Pacers cleaned up a lot of stuff. And they just, I mean, they threw more at him, a lot more hedges, a lot more traps, a lot of different body. as well.

Like you saw a little, and I also, I actually want to say that I don't even think that necessarily the different bodies were because that was the plan and it was just like

Carlisle's coaching genius. I think it was actually because they made so few adjustments on him that they had to work things out on the fly and figure them out. And I'm not sure how you would feel about this as far as like a game seven perspective. I don't think that

the Pacers were actually their execution wasn't awesome in my mind with all those coverages. There were a lot of times where they did the hedge and Jalen Brunson just got around it. There were a lot of times when Halliburton, Obie Toppin just weren't high enough or they looked a little lost or they were behind the screen. And then like the third rotation was off. And just the fact that the Pacers were still able to, A, make a difference shows you, yes, that's a right coverage. Because even if you don't execute it perfectly, it's still better than just letting him go. But I'm also curious because it feels like it feels like the Pacers to me could actually

even get better at that coverage going into game seven. And I don't really have faith that New York, you know, now with Josh Hart being an issue, another place where you really miss O.G. Anunobie is going to be able to have the guys to make adjustments because they were also just helping at the nail over and over again. And it really felt like Dante and Miles McBride were really the only two that were able to punish them. Because you got me, I have, I have, Isaiah Hartenstein, Josh Hart, who's hurt and precious to Chua on the floor together at the same time. Like, it's kind of obvious from a defensive perspective what you're going to do. Yeah, I thought that Neismet did a pretty good job on Brunson.

McConnell did a pretty good job in Brunson, just picking up full court, being as physical as possible, making him work for everything. As you said, they mixed coverages, they switched, they blitzed. They had one switch at the beginning. I think it was either the second or the third quarter where they switched Isaiah Jackson. onto Brunson and it totally caught him off guard. Jackson, Brunson drove. Jackson blocked his shot at the rim and, you know, have that length on him. It's something that Brunson's really struggled with.

They did get an offensive rebound off of that one because that's one thing I noticed with the traps. They were able to get more offensive rebounds in those situations. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that to your point also with they could be a lot cleaner with their execution, I thought they did a pretty good job with Halliburton who, if I'm a Knicks fan, I want to see Halliburton in ball screen actions guarding Brunson every single possession. And I don't think they did that enough in this game. And credit Halliburton for getting out of it, hedging, recovering. Brunson also just missed some shots that he normally makes.

Early on, he missed 11 straight shots in the first half, which is something. For a guy who leads this postseason in points, points per game, usage, like a bazillion categories, he's been amazing. That was kind of shocking to see and you wonder how healthy he is with the foot. But at the start of the fourth quarter, Rick Carlisle during the television interview said that, you know, they screwed up three straight switches or they should have switched three straight times when Brunson got free at the end of the third quarter. So obviously the Pacers can be better defensively. And I think Brunson in game seven, because he is God in Madison Square Garden, I've attended several of these games, and he just doesn't miss. And he gets to the free throw line.

And he just gets everybody going and gets everybody involved and beats every single coverage. So I'm curious to see if he's able to bounce back. I would bet he will. The question is, will Tyrese Halliburton play as well as he has at home? on the road, I think that could be a deciding factor in the series. Yeah, so two things on that. I was looking at Brunson's kind of load management, or not lack of load management, his playoff load in historical perspective,

just going through some of the guys that have had to carry a load like this. And it was actually kind of surprising to me. I thought that we would really only see a few people and that most of them wouldn't have won a championship or gone very far in the playoffs. Now, there are those guys scattered into it. But you also have Kobe. And what I looked at was guys who have been in the playoffs and averaged over 27 field goal attempts per game, which is ridiculous in 40 minutes. You have Kobe in 2003, Jordan in 90, 92, 93, 97 when he's old.

That's incredible. Akeem in 95. LeBron in 2015. There's some losses peppered into those. But, you know, and also obviously like the Alan Iverson, 2001. when they get that game off the Lakers and the finals in 2003 as well. So you've got, you've got some, you've got success peppered in there. And I think like that's, that's always my biggest question with the Knicks, like,

going back home and why Hart is going to be, like, heart in New York is like Aaron Gordon 2.0. And there were some moments in this game before he got hurt where they were just putting the ball on his hands. And there was one where he just like, it looked like they were trying to set a Brunson screen. it was a decoyed heart drives and then he just hits precious with a pocket pass and I was like oh yeah like this guy spent a good chunk of his career being a guard like he was before

he was this he was a little bit miscast in the same way that Gordon is and he's not Aaron Gordon but he's kind of Aaron Gordon light and then when he's at the garden he's averaging 2010 and 5 on the road it's 10 10 and 5 so if he can't go that's obviously a huge issue

that kind of just spells it for for Indiana in my opinion. But it's also like, man, like, is you really not going to go? We don't know. We don't know, but that's obviously a major question. But on Halliburton, it's real bad, like the home road splits. Like, at home, he's kind of what he was tonight. And it's been the story of the series.

It's been the story of his postseason. Like, is he just going, like, when does he get to the point where he realized that he needs to be the guy that's aggressive and take shots? So at home, he's averaging 23 and 8, but to me the biggest thing is he's taking 19 shots on the road. And this is just in the playoffs. He's taking 10.8 shots, averaging 10.8 shots on the road. And any time, like, he shot under 10 times in the playoffs three times. And they've lost all three of those games.

And you have to be, it's like a double whammy because you have to be even more cognizant of that on the road with this. team because that's also the biggest Pacers playoff problem right now too is their role players like see thatcum's awesome on the road but they're role players they just don't hit shots at the same rate so that has like you know Tyrese is part of that but he's got to take the onus on himself to be like I need to do what I did today you compare Josh Hart to Aaron Gordon he's Kauai Leonard actually I hate to break it too that's that's exactly who he is like prime Kauai Leonard if there was never any knee pain ever. Did you feel like

Halliburton played a average game and above average game, a great game? Did you feel him? Did you feel his presence tonight? Because I personally, like there were some stepbacks early. There was he got

fed Seaccom a couple times. He had the driving layup, which you just don't see him getting from the three point line to the rim very often. And Miles McBride J.J. Reddick called it out on the broadcast. A defensive mistake. A breakdown there by him. Way too much ball pressure. Let him get to the right hand. I don't know. Am I being a hater? I just didn't think it was like a spectacular performance. He had an average game.

He had a regular Tyreys Halliburton game, in my opinion. And probably a little bit less than a regular Italian Saliburton game. I do think that he was expending a lot more energy defensively this game. And it was also just not one of those games where I think the. quite the big question that we have about Halliburton and it kind of reminds me a little bit of the early Nicola Yokich days where he just he it took him it took him a couple years it took him a long time honestly to really realize I'm the best option I need to be the guy who takes a shot I can't wait a game I can't be you know like forcing passes it took him a long time and it feels like Halliburton's in that place right now but this isn't a game that was going to test him

in that regard because everybody else got off early. See, Ackham set the tone, Nemhard set the tone. Miles Turner was awesome. He had that... He's been great this whole postseason. He's been awesome. He had that one closeout attack on Hardinstein that was just like a tomahawk done. I was like, okay, yeah, all right.

Like, they came out to play. This is like, I think the broadcast said it, like, Rick Harlele was asking for force. This is the force that he was asking for. But I think, I think Halliburton got most of his non- between like I think like midway through the third quarter he just wasn't really doing much anymore and it feels like that's kind of what he prefers you know like if he doesn't have to be the guy to to do it he's going to be like much happier that way I think game seven is going to be a much bigger test because you expect this from him at home you know he plays better at home

you know he's more aggressive at home you know that everybody else also you know like the other guys get off at home too so I'm I'm still like the jury to me is still out on whether he has answered for that performance. That doesn't come yet. This is obviously a good sign that he, you know, we played relatively well. But this was a Siakum game. You know who's going to show up an MSG in a Pacer's uniform?

T.J. McConnell. T.J. McConnell's going to show up. He's going to be amazing. I attended the first two games of the series. And my general takeaway, despite indie losing, both games was that they lost both games because Rick Carlyle self-sabotivist. just team and didn't play T.J. McConnell as many minutes as he should.

I agree. I think that that's a dude who, I still can't believe I'm saying it as it comes out of my mouth. But he was like, he changed the whole tempo, the whole rhythm of tonight's game as well. And he feeds off the crowd. He gets everybody going. He just, I don't know how he does it. I don't know how he gets into the paint and finishes at the rate he has in this. series. I know Mitchell Robinson isn't available. I know that the Knicks are banged up and usually

pretty small, but T.J. McConnell's just kind of had his way doing whatever he wants. And I, I, I like have way more faith. Like, what does it say about the Pacers that I have more faith in T.J. McConnell showing up in Game 7 than I do Tyreys Hallibor. That's a hot take. Is that like a worrisome? Is that a worrisome sign? That's a hot take. But I will say, I will say there was a moment in the third quarter, we were texting and another insane sentence. I was just like, man, they need to get the ball out of T. Jim McConnell's ads. Like, they need to do something. It was, it was incredible. He has, he has definitely been like one of the more steady presences for them throughout, you know, always, but especially this playoffs. He's been awesome. And yeah,

I don't worry about him showing up for game seven, but I do worry a little bit about everybody. else. And yeah, to your point, you know, it's a big question with Halliburton. He hasn't really hasn't done an MSG, which is surprising. Like, is this on a general note? Like, okay, there's the injuries with Halliburton. He's dealing with multiple things right now. This is surprising to me, given what we saw early in the season, given what we saw in the in-season tournament, given just the fact that he seemed like somebody to me that were when the lights were brightest. And even in situations, I know he's like a very, you know, expansive, abundant type of guy,

but even in situations where things were getting antagonistic, it would get him going. I would just think if you asked me before the series, if you asked me, I guess, in December, the Knicks are going to play the Pacers and Tyrese Halliburton's going to be playing these road games at Madison Square Garden, I would have been like, oh, awesome.

That's going to be box office, you know? Yeah, it hasn't been box office, unfortunately. He's interesting because especially when you contrast him with Jalen Brunson, who is just like so even keel throughout a basketball game and goes at his own speed is totally unbothered by the defense. Reeds reacts. He's aggressive at all times. Even today when he didn't have it going, he didn't have a shot falling. Jalen Brunson plays the same way no matter what's going on around him. And then you have Halliburton who's very fiery, very emotional, screams at the opponent, screams

at the crowd, interacts with the crowd, talks a lot of trash. And he's like very up and down on the floor. And when I contrast these two players, it's just like, I know who I want on my team. I know who has obviously had a better postseason. and I know the physical issues that Halliburton's dealing with and everything. But just like even the defensive – like Jalen Brunson's not a terrific defensive player, but he kind of maximizes his ability. Like he makes up for his size by being very physical in the pain.

He rotates over. He, you know, obviously leads the league in charge is taken. Like Halliburton, there was one play tonight where Miles McBride backcut Seacom for a layup. And Halliburton is on the weak side guarding Josh Hart and the pain is wide open because he's not in a help position. And Rick Carlisle just calls time out immediately and he's just like what is going on. Like he's just it's like, this is the playoffs. Like why are you out on, it's like a regular season mistake. You shouldn't be out on Josh Hart who basically can't move right now.

You need to be as a low man rotating over, protecting the basket in some form or fashion. But he's just not very, he just like, he's just like flogers. floats around. I don't know. I feel like I'm being very negative towards Tyrese Halliburton, who I like as a player. I voted him all NBA this season. But he's just very, it's a roller coaster ride with him. And I feel like it's really difficult to win stack playoff wins with someone like that as your franchise player. Oh, I feel like I'm going through the same internal conflict with him. You know, it's interesting because I think that Brunson and Halliburton are such interesting foils for each other. And there have been moments in the regular season where people have

kind of been asking this question of like, who would you rather have between Brunson and Halliburton? And I think it's such an interesting basketball conversation because there are such different players stylistically in terms of what they bring to an offense, in terms of their mentality, you know, as you said, one of those guys is on an even keel. And I think if I was to look at it in the vacuum in terms of my basketball sensibilities and probably yours too and probably the broader sort of like basketball culture, I think that if you looked at it, in an abstract sense, you would say, Ty Halliburton, you would say the guy who leads the NBA in assists,

you would say the guy who pushes the pace, who is like heliocentric, but not because he gets off the ball so quickly and he raises the floor. And hypothetically, he makes everybody, well, not even hypothetically, he makes everybody around him better. And, you know, we just saw the nuggets win the NBA finals with the player who is,

you know, I don't want to make that comparison too much. I think offensively, They are very different beasts in terms of what they actually produce. But that's really what it comes down to because in the abstract, and what I think he's going to give me and what I think he's going to be for my team, I'm going to take Halliburton. But then Jalen Brunson, every single time, actually does it.

And he plays a very different game. He loves being in that mid-paint area. He is a good, like, I'm not going to, like, yeah, he's a good floor general, but he's not like this mystical or creative passer that has, Aliburton is. He's more of a game controller. And he's kind of, he's one of those guys that historically, like, you know, we saw Becky Hammond catch so much hell for saying that small guards don't go deep in the playoffs, but she wasn't wrong. It's just historically something that's very difficult to do. We've seen Curry do it. And Curry did it in his own unique style. And you saw Isaiah Thomas be one of the few guys, who I think is much more closer to that Brunson ilk. But there is also something I've just been noticing on the court stylistically. that's so different between their games and one of those things is so much better

for the playoffs. Beyond just like the mid-range shooting of it, Brunson is so compact in the way that he moves. Like even when you create gaps against him, his handle is so close to his body all the time. It's never, he's never loosey-goosey with it.

The way he moves, he's almost like a mini-fridge. Like you're just like watching this mini-fridge just move, like go in between the, between these guys. So when the Knicks don't have their floor spacers on the floor, it doesn't necessarily matter because he's still going to find a way to navigate. And then with Tyrese Halliburton sometimes, it's like he needs 10 feet to do a crossover.

That's why he's so good in space. But then once you, if you create even any level of gap for him, and we saw this in the Milwaukee series, even more so in this series, where they were just like, yeah, we'll just help with the nail. And he was like, oh, I'm screwed. like I'm going to turn it over if I try to drive into this. And he's so resistant to shooting the mid-range pull-up as well, even though it's a shot that he's really good at.

So yeah, it's just a really interesting, I don't know. It's, we can move on to other stuff. But I think the comparison between those two is so interesting as far as like an abstract basketball conversation versus what you actually see on the floor. What do you think is going to happen in game seven, where obviously the Knicks have like six. players, if that.

And the Pacers just, I mean, we've just spent 10 minutes talking about Tyrese Halliburton and his struggles on the road and, you know, the on-off splits or the road home splits just with this team in this series and in this postseason. Just what are you thinking for Game 7? What's your temperature take? My gut is that Josh Hart replenishes himself at like 10 times the average rates of a normal human being and that Jalen Brunson's going to be awesome and that the Knicks crowd is going to be like we've never seen it before, at least in my basketball watching lifetime and or maybe

insanity, but it's going to be an insane crowd. And I can't, I just, I know that I know that they bounce back in this game, but it didn't mean a lot to me. I expected them to bounce back at home. I can't trust the Pacers on the road, not after what I've seen. I just feel like even if the Knicks are like limping to the finish line, they are going to cross it. I don't want to say the Pacers have no chance. But I just, I would be almost, I'd be stunned if the Pacers won.

And a lot of that, Josh Hart's body, and I do agree with you that I think Josh Hart's going to play, even though there's like a really quick turnaround. But man, like, I'm trying to think of what scenario it would take for the Pacers to win and what kind of game they would have to play.

Like, I think T.J. McConnell would have to play great as they did in game one of this series. I think that they'd have to limit turnovers. I think they'd have to just dominate on the offensive glasses they did in this game and create a ton of second chance opportunities, never turn the ball over, hope that Dante DiVincendo doesn't hit eight threes, which he's probably going to do, be really disciplined. and the gaps with Brunson defensively, which is something that they've struggled with time and time again. Hope Brunson goes cold.

Hope Isaiah Hartstein sprains his ankle in the first quarter. Like I have a really difficult time seeing a path forward for the Pacers. I think part of that is just because in my brain, I can't process them making the conference finals. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes complete sense. I have a question for you. Okay.

If Tibbs has to go to a guy that he hasn't gone to yet, who are we seeing first? First of all, he's not doing that. Let's say Josh Hart can't play, Precious Chua is in the starting lineup. He can't run those guys for 48 minutes. Alex Berks can come in for the guards, but is it going to be Jericho Sims?

Are we going to see, like, are we getting Jacob Topin time? What's going on? My gut tells me, Shake Milton. And like super small ball, like three, like three four guard lineups. Like I say that like my gut tells me, it's just like that's the only Nick that I can think of. Still on the bench. Who's available.

Jericho Sims had like the eight second violation. What was that in the game four? Game four. Yeah, I think it was game four, game five. Game four. Eight second violation. I was just like, oh, he's never playing again. So I can't, I can't mention him.

Yeah, Sips is really toned it down on the sidelines, but the one thing he hates, like every time there's an unnecessary turnover, he's just like, he looks just completely befuddled. He's like, how could that have happened? There was one, I think it was like an offensive rebound where the Pacers got lucky. I think it was Alec Berks that was supposed to shoot. It was that play you were talking about actually, Isaiah Jackson. And then they get the offensive rebound.

And it's a shot clock violation because I think he thought that Brunson. hit the rim, which is a very reasonable thing to think. I actually thought he hit the rim, too, watching from home. But Tibbs was pissed. I couldn't handle it. So do we both think Nix? Are we both like? Yeah, despite, yeah, yeah, despite the turnaround, despite, I just, it becomes, they're like,

they're like, this year's heat, like the zombie heat. It's like the zombie Nix. Like, I just feel like they're going to find a way. And the pacerers are sort of the opposite where, like, regardless of depth, regardless of what I saw today. I just don't, I can't find, I can't find in my heart. I like this team. I always like, they're almost like, they're kind of like,

you wrote a great Carl Anthony Towns feature. They're like my Carl Anthony Towns where because of like the person that he is and like the way that he can play at his best. Like that's how I feel about the Pacers and Tyries Halliburton. Like I want good things for them. And then I watch them on the road. And I've watched them honestly since the Seacom trade. And I'm like, some real unforgivable stuff, you guys.

Some stuff I can't really unsee. I would love to unsee it, but you've got to do something to make me unsee it. And a home game is, you know, it's not enough. It's not enough. I feel like it's going to be the Knicks. And I think you agree. Should we move on?

Should we talk some, honestly, like what is one of the most anticipated non-finals game sevens in a very long time in Minnesota versus Denver, a game that I am so excited for could go down. as maybe the game of the year. That's kind of what it's pegged for. I think game six was almost pegged for that until Minnesota came in and decided,

oh, this is going to be a 45-point blowout. I actually watched that game at a bar, and by the end, because there was just nothing else to cheer for. It was kind of like cheering for a, like, let's make it 50. They didn't ever make it 50. They made it 48 at one point, I think, maybe 47. There was a three-pointer that could have gotten them there.

But yeah, the wolves survived and thrived. against the Nuggets in game six. They forced a game seven going on the road where they have two wins somehow. This is the most confusing series of all time. I will say beforehand, I will not be making any predictions for game seven. I absolutely refuse. But this is definitely a game with storylines that I want to talk about. But I'll let you start us off.

What are you most excited to see in games? game seven. Well, first of all, I agree with you. It's like in a way, you know, no disrespect to the Boston Celtics, but this game seven feels like in a way, game seven of the NBA finals. And that's also no disrespect to the Mavericks or the Thunder to really good teams playing pretty good basketball right now. But when I watch this series, even though the games have been not particularly competitive, the individual games, Like the level of basketball being played by whoever prevails in each one is better than any basketball that I'm seeing throughout the playoffs. Would you agree with that? It's just like next level stuff from both of these teams. So I'm really excited for, you know, seeing how Yokic bounces back from just like the constant double teams that he saw in game six. I have a lot of confidence he will. I'm really interested to see how the Nuggets defend and if they are able to kind of be as aggressive and successful with their aggression as they were earlier in the series in games where he struggled a little bit.

And I think that those two stars, like I would love to see both of them have fantastic games and us to actually get a like an actual crunch time where each team has to out-execute each other. But I mean, this is it. Like this is such a wonderful matchup. It's like one team was constructed to beat the other. One team is the defending champs. One team just like made this massive trade and just constructed itself in a way that was built to beat Nicola Yokic. Can they do it? And, you know, I hope Jamal Murray is healthy.

He's got the elbow thing. He's got the calf thing. I hope everybody's healthy. of everybody like hit shots plays great defense. I just want a really competitive game. And unlike you, I'm going to make my prediction, which is the Nuggets will win because I will never bet against Tricola Yogic so long as it's in his prime. I'll just never do it.

You'll never get me to do it. But I can't wait. It's going to be going to be amazed. Does it feel like a finals game 70 or am I being hyperbolic there? Yeah, it does. I have to also ask you a quick question about the Celtics. I know you do. I do. I have to. I have to.

I have to because we haven't got to podcast together in a very long time. And as soon as I saw this ad, I immediately thought of you. When the, there's no such thing is playoff Tatum with other players also saying there's no such thing as playoff, whatever ad came out. Was there a little part of you that was

like, oof, that's really good material. Like, did you get a little nervous? I will say that you know, based on how he's played in this postseason, he wasn't lying. with how he was, he was like really good acting by him slash not good acting. He's just being himself.

There was, there is no playoff datum. This is who he was in December. So from that perspective, I don't know. But, you know, he's going to be fine. He's, you know, I feel like the Celtics have not had any real competition so far. I don't want to go off. That's always a good thing for the Celtics. Yeah.

They've really benefited. So, yeah. You know, you're really derailing me with this question a little bit. And my head's going in a lot of places. But, but yeah, no, great commercial, by the way. I've really enjoyed it. Love all the characters in it. And I like that they led with Tatum, who is, you know, he's just, he's one of the greats.

It was, I thought a really smart choice that Jimmy Butler wasn't in the commercial at all. So, what are we doing, guys? Well, I've appropriately gotten enough of, like, hearing your voice, crack a little bit, so I'll move on now. Yeah, so this definitely feels like an NBA finals game seven to me. There are so many things that

I'm curious about. And to your point, I do hope that we get. I hope that it's not one of those things where, you know, both of these teams, we've seen the nuggets come out and just be completely lethargic. We've seen the timbrewows come out and just be like way too amped up.

I'm curious how a very young Timberwolf's team that has struggled with emotional volatility. We've both written about this via different proxies. You use Carl Towns. I use Jayne McDaniels. Basically talking about the same thing with his team is in what is like a monumental game for this franchise, like not just these players, but that they have like they are

entering the situation for the first time. I'm really interested in seeing how Anthony Edwards plays, how he responds to just being under that level of spotlight and, you know, the stakes being as high as they are, it just really is one of those moments where you're like, and, you know, for Yokic too, like, those are two things that I don't think they're the biggest factors in the series. I do think that ultimately at Yokch, I think they're both going to show up. I think they're going to play well. I think that it's really going to come down to how the other guys play.

But when I think about long-term legacy perspective and also just thinking about like the question of who the best player in this postseason has been, I feel like Anthony Edwards has a real opportunity to just cement himself because I do think that going into this game, seeing how Yokic looked in the fourth quarter, just standing on the baseline, watching the action separate from his team. I've never seen him like that. That terrified me a little bit. It was kind of like watching those Game of Thrones episodes where a whole bunch of action would be going down, the main world and then it would just end with like the episode with would just end with the night king approaching and you're just reminded that there's like there's actually this specter

hanging over everybody else that's that's sort of what that felt like um and they're you know they're playing at home it's a game seven crowd that I'm sure will be raucous even though Matt Dullinger tells me that even at when the nuggets are at their best this is in avalanche city which is unfortunate guys come on um you have you have the best offensive player like ever. I mean, I don't know. I'll walk that back

just for the sake of people being in my mentions. But don't bother. It was factually accurate. I mean, everybody got it out there. Yeah, it's live. I said it.

I said it. But, okay, so Anthony, Anthony Edwards, I was, I had a big stat head day today. I had a big,

like, let's just go look at how, how these guys are, are doing a historical perspective today. Players to average 35.5, and 5.5 on above 50% shooting and making it past the first round. Yokesh last year. LeBron 2009, 2017, 2018.

Jordan, 89, 90, 91, and Anthony Edwards. Like, that's, they're four guys. And the other three are, like, have, like, cemented themselves as all-time grates. If you then throw in shooting 40% from beyond the arc, it's Yokic. it's LeBron in 2017 and it's Anthony Edwards it is such a short list and I know that sometimes

with these things you can start sort of using the filters and finding I promise I didn't do that that was the first one I threw in it was and it's it feels like a pretty basic like 35.5 5.5.5 50 40 like those are standard numbers and I didn't I wasn't even looking to do

I was staggered I was staggered that's wild Those numbers are wild. He has been just breathtaking. I don't really know what else there is to say. I mean, the pressure that he puts on the rim, the footwork, the explosiveness, the touch,

the defensive intensity, the competitiveness. It's all just this, it's like you're watching a myth be created before your very eyes. And to have it be done against the defending champs against a three-time MVP, if he were to go into Denver, have a great game, and lead the Minnesota Timberwolves

to the conference finals, a place they've been once in their history as a franchise. I mean, to your original statement, like, he would be the best player in the playoffs. No disrespect to Luca. Shea Tatum, Brunson.

I think Anthony Edwards is just kind of operating right now. I don't think he's necessarily a better player than all those guys, but he's operating. Right, right. He's playing unbelievable and doing it on both ends, doing it in so many different ways. I have a hard time seeing that happen because of his age. But, you know, when you look at the experience level, to me he is, and what we could be seeing is Dwayne Wade when he won the first title with the heat where it's him and Shaq. But like Edwards is Wade. Like my favorite comp for Edwards is Wade with a three point shot. I've been saying

that all season long. And so that would kind of fit that narrative if he were to actually win the championship this season. And I think obviously Minnesota's defense would be the co-star there. It's incredible defense. But I I mean, I hesitate to like actually think that that's going to happen just because of, you know, I'm a believer in not that he's skipping steps or anything like that, but like this is like a slow build to something great as opposed to like I know they played last year and lost in the first round.

But beating them this season with him at 22 years old in his fourth year, It would just be, it would be historic. I don't even really know how else to put it. It would be phenomenal. Do you see that as likely possible? Would it surprise you? I think it's possible but not likely, which is why if it happens,

it makes it all the more incredible. And I love the Wade comparison. I think it's a great one, especially, you know, when he was in his third year, he won that title. He was also, he was 24 years old. He spent some time at Marquette and he redshirted his first year there, which I think is huge for a young player just to be sitting on the bench,

seeing how the game works when you're at that age. I think, like, you know, even with a guy like Chet Holmgren, he's been incredible in this playoffs. And I think, you know, it's probably part of the reason why. But he was a little bit older, Wade. But there are also, there are similarities to beyond the play style, beyond the fact that they're like these transcendent athletic two guards. it's the leadership, it's the emotional intelligence.

I went back and I read some stories about Wade through that playoff run. And I can't remember what it was. It was like, it was in the SI Vault, which just like RIPSI. I was just, I was like simultaneously getting psyched up and then also depressed reading these incredible stories. But it was really interesting to read about how when Shack got to the team, the way Wade was just able to be like, Shaq is the best player on this team. We need Shaq.

Shaq is the leader because he knew that Shaq needed that. Everybody else in the world understood that it was Wade, not even coming for the throne. He had the throne by 2006 because of how he played in the 2005 playoffs, even though they didn't make it all the way. He was just so incredible. And that reminds me so much of Anthony Edwards. the way that he is with Carl Towns.

Like, we need you to stop fouling because you're the best offensive player on this team. Like, the way that he recognizes with these guys that are significantly older than him, that he kind of, he already is number one. He doesn't need to say he's number one. Like, I'm going to give these guys their props. I'm going to make sure. And just to have that level of emotional intelligence at such a young age is so impressive to me. And then you think about sort of like both of their backstories.

like two people who have had to see an incredible amount of pain in their lives at a very young age and, you know, don't want to go too much into like a psychoanalysis with that, but you do see parallels as far as like they've just, they both had to weather a lot from a very, very young age and you can kind of see that maturity, that ability to just be in any situation. Now I can't, I'm not going to go so far as to say like Anthony Edwards has seen a lot of grief in his life, therefore he's going to be fine in the game seven situation. Like that's just not how these things like automatically translate. And I do think that, you know, I look back at game five and you see a moment where

that's making quite a few mistakes. You know, I think that there were like the, when Denver switched up its coverage, they were covering a lot of gaps. Like he wasn't really able to attack them. He was trying it over a ton. He, it took a, it took him a game to figure it out. And I think that's the biggest question, right? Like, if and when Denver makes an adjustment, how quickly does Anthony Edwards figure it out,

put his teammates in the best position to succeed. And then from there, which of those guys is going to go and make shots? I loved how aggressive Mike Conley was in game six. It really felt like he was like, I'm not like, and he said it. This is my shot. He was just like, I'm not going home. He had that old man sort of like something comes out of your body. He had that like grandpa strength like some like some sort of like spirit.

Like this is important to me. I've been on this earth for a long time. This is a real opportunity for me. me. So like I'm going to just be able to muster a little bit more. It was kind of like Nick Batum in the play in. But you know, it's like it's hard to like rely on those things happening over and over again. But he was awesome. And then beyond that, it's kind of like that. Can I just say like you talking about Mike Connolly comparing him to grandparents and being on this earth for an extremely long time. I just looked at double checked his age. And yeah, he's exactly as old as I am.

So continue with what you're saying. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you. You have two kids in like the two year range right now. Like you have, well, you have a newborn and you've got a kid that's two. And I've heard that having two under two is one of the hardest things that anybody can go through. But like you just, you do, you find extra reserves.

Like you will yourself because it's important to you. Would you say, do you relate to Mike Conley? I'm here, baby. I'm awake. I had to drink coffee at 9 o'clock, 9 p.m. East Coast, let's go. No, my wife does everything. So she's amazing.

Shout out to her. But no, I do relate to Mike Conley, except when I'm watching him on a basketball court move around. Like I watched Al Horford the other night move around. I'm like, how does, my body is so sore. I have no idea how these people are doing it. It's amazing. It's a magic trick.

It really is. It really is. Yeah. What kind of, what kind of Yokic performance are you expecting? All-timer. Nothing surprises me with him. A 40-point triple double. The thing is, though, I will say he needs Jamal Murray. And like one of the great, great individual performances in this series was Jamal Murray in game three. Back against the wall. I was at that game. He was amazing. Some of the shots he hit. the separation that he created, flying off DHOs. Jaden McDaniels draped all over him, didn't matter, was able to create space, got to his step back.

And I just think that he's had a pretty poor postseason overall shooting the basketball, has the health issues. And he needs to summon something to the point where, that two-man game is a threat. And he's threatening Minnesota's interior defense. He's, you know, spreading them out side to side on the DHOs, which he does a really good job to stretch out, whoever it is, be it cat on Yokic or Gober on Yokic or Nas Reeds, spread the big out, kick it back to Yokic on the short roll, let him make one of his brilliant decisions or just hit the floater. Like, he has to be a threat. And Yokic is amazing. You know, he can obviously go to the post.

There's a lot of different ways you can use Yokic and have him be an efficient score. But to win the game, I think Murray needs to, I'm not saying he needs to score 30 or anything like that, but he needs to look like himself and be a presence out there as opposed to who he was in game six. So just a complete non-factor. So I know I answered your question about Yokic by talking about Jamal Murray, but those two are just like hand in hand to me. and as great as Yokic is, like, he needs Murray, and he needs Murray to be productive, really, at the end of the day. I agree.

Also another aspect of, you know, the Nuggets sort of struggle throughout the playoffs. Not struggle, but they're sort of malaise. They're not being, like, up to their level as far as, like, they're kind of, like, 80, 90% of what they usually are, what they were last year. Ah, man, Peyton Watson, who I was, like, like so high on. Just not here. He has just not been here.

And he was the guy. He was the guy that they said, okay, he's going to be our Bruce Brown replacement. Christian Brown has been that guy much more. The nuggets, though, in the moments that mattered,

like before it turned into 40 points, they got five points out of their bench. That's brutal. Justin Holliday came back down to Earth. You knew that was going to happen at some point. I think it happened maybe the worst time. Reggie Jackson 0 for 6. That was really brutal.

Michael Porter Jr. also just a guy who was really struggled throughout the series and, you know, enormous amount going on in his life right now too as well. So there's probably that aspect of it. And yeah, you kind of, I do see why you answered the Yokic question with Murray. And I would take it down to the other guys too, because you kind of know what you're going to get from Yokic. And I would like, I look at it. And I think like one of the huge, huge stats that came out of that game, Nicola Yokic two assists. like that can't happen again you know and I don't I think like that's partially partially game plan but it was also just

nobody else really guys were missing shots left and right in game six yeah yeah I just actually I just went and checked right now he's had two assists and one other game this season guess it was against Timberwolves

yep yeah that makes a lot of sense At the end of the day, though, like, I just, I feel like the bench will come through at home. It's bizarre, not bizarre. It's unexpected to me how successful Justin Holiday has been. And the fact that he was even the first guy off the bench in the series, it's kind of interesting. I understand they want the three-point shooting. And he's held up on defense well enough.

But, yeah, I mean, we did this like roundtable heading into the postseason. that Peyton Watson was going to be like this breakout. It's not star, but like a breakout role player who had a bunch of moments because I have the utmost respect for his defensive ability, super athletic. One of the best shot blockers in the league, forget about position, just one of the best shot blockers in the league. And Michael Malone's been really interesting in the fact that he hasn't really played him, hasn't played any of the young guys at all, which is.

is like kind of counterintuitive to the whole like, you know, we're not going to sign any vets this offseason or make any trades at the trade deadline and bring in a vet because we have these young guys that we want to develop them and give them this big game experience and they're not getting it. So it's just like kind of an interesting little side wrinkle. I don't know what to make of it. Yeah, you know, I just, I don't think he trusts him. And I don't blame him with Watson. You know, I feel like he like is for the most part, I've seen him come in the playoffs, you know, pump fake, get foul somebody immediately as he goes in, be over aggressive. And then like maybe the yank is a little bit too quick, but it's also the postseason.

You kind of got to be ready for these moments. And I do think that he got a, he got a fair amount of run in the regular season. Like this wasn't like a Jonathan Kaminga situation. They've let him play through his mistakes. I would say the one thing I wish I saw more in the regular season was a little bit more of Julian Strother. I've always, like I've liked everything I've seen from him. And like, frankly, you can't really go to him now.

But, you know, that's definitely not. Like, that's a guy that I do wish I saw get a little bit more regular season run. But it really feels like Malone looks to his bench and he trusts Christian Brown. He trusts Holiday. And then he sort of grits his teeth. And he is like, okay, how else do I fill out this rotation? Like, do I have to put Zieg Najee in the game at any point? I don't want to.

It doesn't like everybody else that he plays. Reggie Jackson, of course, as well. And it just kind of, I mean, it gets to the lack of the lack of front court, the overall depth, but the lack of front court depth for that team with the way that Peyton Watson is playing. And the way, I mean, the Timberwolves have like 40 guys, you know. Even on like when they're on the court, you feel like there's seven guys. Yeah, they're not fair. And they've got like seven more guys on the bench.

I'm surprised we haven't had a where's, like, or how much do the Nuggets miss Bruce Brown narrative storyline. I feel like it's almost like we did it all season. We did it like it kind of, it was like we kind of ran out of juice. Everybody knows you can't keep talking about it over and over again. It's also one of those ones that's tough. I think with narratives

like we like a narrative where we can blame somebody like where we can feel really smart and say like that was stupid. They couldn't keep Bruce Brown. We knew because of the contract situation. Like Bruce Brown was going to be gone because it was his opportunity to get a bag and the Nuggets contract. Like they just

legally could not pay him. So it's just like there's no, you know, it's not fun that way. It's not like, you know, we can like, we love talking about all the, all the shitty deals and like the, all the role players that the Lakers have given away over the last few years. It's like harder to do that in the Bruce Brown situation. I do think, I do think that's part of it. So do you have a prediction before we get out of here or what? Oh, you know, okay.

So the reason I don't want to make a prediction is because my got in my brain is telling me that Denver is going to win. But I think you can tell from my tone, and I felt it happening throughout the course of the series. Like, I want the Timberwolves to win this so badly. So I'm just not willing to put it in the air that I'm predicting the Nuggets.

Have you ever been in those situations? Like, you kind of know, but like everything you know about basketball and these guys and like Yokic and like heart of a champion and they've been in the situation versus everything I know about the Timberwolves and like biggest game in franchise.

I get it. I know that I should be picking the nuggets. I don't want to. I just don't want to. That's honestly how I felt in the first round when I picked the Sons like a total buffoon. Oh, me too. God, so stupid. I feel like the national media members.

I watched one regular season came. So dumb. I was like, I feel like the majority of us picks the Sons. That series happened. And we all collective amnesia. No one's making fun of any. for that pick. It was so bad. Apologies to Minnesota

for all of eternity. Yeah. No, I totally get what you're saying with that. And at the same time, like, I like the Nuggets a lot. I like what they mean for basketball. Like, how they play is so beautiful. Not that the Timberwolves don't play beautiful basketball.

Their defense is one of the best defenses I've ever seen. And when it's on a string and they're physical and to be honest, like they're getting a good whistle. they're unbeatable. So we'll see what happens in game seven. There it is.

It's true. Like, come on. You know, you could call the opposite a good whistle for the nuggets. Very true. Very, very true. So I can't wait. It feels like the finals, it might be the finals at the end of the day. We'll look back and be like, oh, man.

But regardless of what happens to the Timberwolves, I really hope that they keep this team together. And they run it back next year because it's really special. All the pieces fit. I feel like Ant just like even better than he is now is super terrifying. And he's in a perfect situation with perfect role players around him, a lot of talent around him. And before we go, I just want to mention bring back the emotional intelligence point that you made about Ant. and how after game four when Cat went five for 18 and was one for 10 in the first half and just he was terrible.

Ant was asked about him after the game. He called him a superstar. He said, I keep telling him whenever he misses shots, I don't care how many you miss, you got to keep shooting. And his body language, when he said that, I was sitting in the front row at the press conference, like, he meant it. It was like, this is genuinely how I feel. These are things that I say to him. And I just think that's like such emotional maturity and so important in a franchise player. It's one of these under discussed factors in having guys lift everybody else around them.

So that was a really great point by you. And I wanted to call it back. No, I mean, that's a good point because I think it gets to the fact that, you know, everybody wants a guy like that and everybody wants somebody to be a guy like that, which is also why I go back. and I also like we'll still look at Tyrese Halliburton and like value everything that he does holistically so much even though I wish I was getting more consistent consistency on the court with him. Because everybody, you know, people can go out and they can say things like that, but aunt genuinely believes it. And I think anybody, but especially an NBA player who, you know, gets like so much smoke blowing up their ass all the time.

And like they do get very good at discerning between who's being real with them and who's not. they can tell when it's real. Like, it's a job of a franchise player to go up and say, hey, yeah, like, no, of course. Like, we always want him to keep shooting. Everybody says that when their teammate is struggling. But you hear it in Ant's voice. Like, there is this sort of, there's this endless well of confidence and self-belief that then emanates onto the rest of the team, you know? Like, they really are.

We talk about, we talk about Yokic and how now the Nuggets. and how now the Nuggets are a team that's sort of built in his image. And they've learned how to share the ball. Like, you know, they've like watched him and his passing angles. And like, you know, you got guys like Michael Porter Jr. And now to distributors every once in a while. You know, like you see, you see that. And then with with at, I feel like they took the tools that they had on defense.

And then just infused it with his ferocity and his will. Like, it really just feels like this is like they are starting to take on his identity. And I think if they win game seven, which is a big if, but it's the biggest reason that if they win game seven, it's not because the team they are right now. But the team they will be if they win game seven is a team that I think is just going to run the table after that. Like, you will not be able to tell them a fucking thing. Sorry for swearing. I got some crap for that last time, which rightfully so,

rightfully so, I shouldn't be swearing on a live pod. But they're just going to run the table after that. I think if they win, everybody on that team for like four weeks becomes Anthony Edwards mentally. You know what I mean? Do you see that happen every once in a while?

Like it happened with Raptors and Kwai Leonard. Like there's a certain point where they're like, when they made that comeback against Milwaukee, like down 02, that Philly series was tough. And it was like, they got out by, the skin of their teeth. Kauai saved them in game three. He hits that huge game seven shot.

And then Eastern Conference finals, they make that comeback. They're like, all right, you can't tell us anything. Yeah, we'll play the Warriors. Now, with KD injury helped. But it was also like the way that they thought of themselves afterwards was very important. I think that if they win this game, we're going to see the same thing happen. Yeah. So they'll just need Peyton Pritchard to go down in the finals. It's basically the same parallel with KD. Yeah. Right? Is that accurate? Yeah, well, I mean, do you do really want to see Tatum in Crunchtime versus Jaden McDaniels and Nikila Alexander Walker and Nas Reid and Gobert? I mean, like, who's he going to, he's going to go like mismatch hunting, realize there isn't one and his brain's just going to break. You know, it's too late.

It's too late for me to think about this. Okay, okay. All right. This feels like a good place to end it. All right. Well, thank you so much, Michael. I know it is officially 1215. on the East Coast

and for you to have two young children and to also endure my trolling just shows me that you have an Anthony Edwards-esque heart of a champion and like a Jalen-esque resiliency. I expect to... I mean, I also, I know that I'm going to see that from you for the rest of this playoffs, which to me is also Josh Hart-esque as well.

So thank you so much for... for being here and giving us your insight. This was a blast. I hope everyone who tuned in enjoyed it. Shout out to YouTube. And shout out to you, sir. This was great. This was fun.

Also, thank you to our producers. Ben Cruz, Jonathan, Frias, and Troy Farkas. And thank you all for listening. And if you're also on the East Coast, thanks for staying up with us. We'll talk to you soon.