The Ringer NBA Show - Kristaps Porzingis Is Out in New York. Does This Mean Two (or Three?) Superstars Might Be In? | The Corner 3 (Ep. 379)

Episode Date: February 1, 2019

We break down the Kristaps Porzingis–to-Dallas trade from every angle: the Mavericks, the Knicks, Porzingis himself, Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, the Pelicans, the Lakers, the Raptors, and more. NBA trade season is upon us! Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. We just launched a brand new golf podcast called Fairway Rowland, where Joe House is joined by a rotating cast of Ringer and golf world personalities every week. They'll break down the latest in golf headlines and news from social media, keep up with everything Tiger Woods, and delve into the world of golf gambling. The first episode was just released earlier this week with new episodes being published every Monday going forward. You can download and subscribe to Fairway Rowland on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor, and this is The Corner 3. Joining me here in gorgeous Los Angeles. It's from Ringer Associate Editor, Dady Chow. I'm here. Let's Talk. And from Dallas, Texas. It's from Ringer's staff writer, Jonathan Charks. I believe you mean center of the basketball universe, Casey. We've changed our name over here. Yes, yes, we will be talking about the Chris Dap's Porzingus Trade. Today's podcast is produced and engineered by Bobby Wagner. and we're recording at 9-10 Pacific on Friday morning.

Yesterday had one of the most fascinating trades that I can remember, with Chris Staps Porzingis being traded to the Dallas Mavericks, and we're going to break that down from every single angle. The full details of the trade are this. The next traded Porzingis, along with the bad contracts of Tim Hardaway Jr. and Courtney Lee, plus Tray Burke to the Dallas Mavericks for point guard Dennis Smith Jr., the expiring contracts of DeAndre Jordan and Wesley Matthews, two first round picks, an unprotected first in 2021,

and in top 10 protected first in 2023. Those are the years that they're likely to be conveyed. Charks, you're a Mavericks fan, so I'm going to leave this to you. Where do we start with this crazy trade? I don't even know, like, my brain is going in like a million different directions. I'll just say this, like, so a bit behind the curtains. A couple of days ago, me and Danny were talking like, well, I guess the Mavs could go after like, I don't know, Goren Drogich the summer.

And it's a little more exciting now. Yeah, like, Charks was basically like, I'm completely resigned to the fact that the Mavs are probably going to end up with Goren Dragich and Maxing out Bougy. And I was just like, wait, what? Like a Julius Randall type. Yeah, like something like it's a completely lateral kind of like totally Mavericks type move. Well, instead of Bougy or Julius Randall, now we get to fantasize about how Christaps, Porzingis, and Lukut Dantzich will play together. Did you see Carlisle's quote about that? He was like, well, it's basically like if Steve Nash and Dirk were six foot seven and seven foot three.

Just like, oh my God. I think that kind of sums it up for me, right? Like, Luca is like a jumbo-sized Steve Nash. And poor Zingis, you know, he was compared to Dirk, fair or not pre-draft. We have seen the flashes of that over his first couple seasons. I think the fit could be perfect charts. I think what I'm most excited about with like Luca and KP, and then I was looking back at KP's rosters in New York the last three years.

Oh, ugly, huh? And I was like, well, who was the best point card? played with. And then it was like, the ghost of Jose Calderon, I mean, pre-resurrection, Derek Rose, Trey Burke 4.0. Like, it's really pretty brutal. I mean, Dan Devine

shouted out Jared Jack, but look, yeah. Everyone's friends, Jared Jack. The point is, that's terrible. Yeah, and then you have a guy who can, like, make KP so much better. And I think the two of them together, the thing also jumped out to me, like, looking at KP and breaking down his numbers,

is like, how few assists he really picks up. Like, KP is just like seven foot three gunner, basically. And to me, like, if you're going to have a guy as your first option, he's got to be somebody who passes the ball too. And now when KPs in Dallas, he can just gun for shots whenever he feels like it. Luca runs the offense. I think just the distribution of roles fits really well together. Well, I think that's part of it. Instead of really running the offense through Porzingis net charks, now he has somebody who can do that for him. I think in New York, a lot of the reasons for his inefficiencies, and we'll talk about this later, was a lot

of the injuries that affected his play, but also the fact that he just had so much responsibility, and now somebody's going to be helping him do that. And there was also just a lot

of him in the post. It was just a lot of, okay, so Mello's gone, and we're just going to slot you into Mello's role. And to be fair to Porzincas, he was very good at it. He was very good at shooting over people

because he can shoot over literally anyone in the league, literally anyone in the world, with his arms and with his height and with his shooting ability. So, I mean, now, yeah, we kind of get to see the full breadth of poor Zingas' skills next to already one of the top playmakers in the league.

And he'll presumably play five, right? Like he was playing a lot of four in New York. I can't imagine that'll happen much in Dallas now. To your point, Danny, Dallas over the years, has always been one of the most frequent pick-and-roll offenses with Dirk or the rim runners like Tyson Chandler over the years. Porzingis, John, he can do a little bit of both of that. He can pop. He can roll.

so I think it'll be a lot less post-oriented offense and a lot more high pick and roll with Luca Donchich. Well, I mean, then too, like you pick and roll into the post, right? Yeah. If you're going to switch that screen, then, boom, you're going to like a six-foot-four guy on KP. Right. How do you guard a KP, Luca pick and roll? Like, what's the coverage?

There's no obvious thing to do, right? You know, it's interesting. Like, there's so many little different things that can come out of that play, right? Because Luca can pull up from anywhere. He can beat switches. He can zoom by slower-footed guys. Chris Daps is an effective post-scorer who can beat up on some slightly smaller guys. They'll be on Luca.

And you can't blitz Luca either. Like, he's 6'7. So. And the thing is, the other guys that were included in this trade completely complement this style of play as well. You're getting Corny Lee, who's pretty much an automatic 40% three-point shooter. I'm pretty sure he's still healthy. I think they were just kind of benching him.

Like, he had a neck thing earlier in the year. But they just kind of benched him because they didn't need him. Partially the same thing that they were doing with Enus Cantor. where it's like, we're tanking here, guys. Like all you better players, get away, stay away, we want Zion. And then you have Tim Hardaway Jr. who is like a legitimate, you know, if you put him in the right situation where he's not trying to carry the load of being this first option, I think he's a very viable, you know, third, fourth option, right?

That's what our big boss has been saying, you know, for a while now with Tim Hardaway, right? Right, where right now he's shouldering a lot of responsibility for the Knicks, scoring 19 points on 16 shots per game, that's not what you want Tim Hardaway doing. You want him in a spot where he's taking 9, 10, or 11 shots per game, more spot-up opportunities, and he's absolutely going to get those in Dallas.

And if he's playing in a back court with Luca at 6-7-6-7, that's the thing with his team. They're just going to be so freaking huge, right? 6-7-67. Corny's the smallest guy at 6-5. Maybe he's not even a long-term piece. Barn's is 6-foot-8, K-P, 7-4-3. Charks, how do you see them building

around this core. Let's just assume, well, first of all, there was the report yesterday from Shams Trania that Porzingis was going to inform the Mavercy and tends to sign the qualifying offer. And then later news came out that suggested he's actually going to give this a chance and the Mavericks feel confident they'd be able to win him over by the summer. I think it's a silly idea that he would sign that qualifying offer, a guy with his injury history, which is really long. And like I said, we'll hit that later. He's going to take that max contract. Well, is he, I don't know. Like, is he going to play this year? That's the other thing. What's his timeline? You don't have any idea.

How can you like sell him on the team if he's never playing with them? I think there's being around the culture, right? Rick Carlisle, you know, Mark Cuban, they were Luca Doncher, Dirk Novitsky. They can still, you know, sell him even if he's not playing. Well, that's the other thing, too, Carlisle is going to have to get his act together. Like, you better start kissing KP's butt. Like, you know, like Carlisle actually, you know, I'm the tough veteran coach. I want a championship. That's all well and good, but KP's 23 old with an ego.

So he's going to want to get massaged and pampered. So, Charks, here's a question. You are, you know, a Dallas guy through and through. So what, how is the fit going to be off the court? Yeah, man. I don't know. I think it's good in a sense that they're going to, like, go out drinking all the time because, like, they'll be friends, right?

Right. But, yeah, Dallas is in New York, but there's plenty of places to have a good time. And Luca, from all I understand, likes to have a good time. K.P. loves to have a good time. Like, good times you're going to be had, man. We're going to throw some European discos. We're going to get the whole thing going out here. I mean, we've seen those legendary, like iconic drunk, Dirk and Steve Nash photos.

Wonderful. So, you know. Hey, look, it's Dirk and Nash on E.M. That's what this is, man. It's EDM Dirk. Well, here's the thing, though, with their roster. Who's going to be partying with these guys out in the Dallas scene? Who else is a keeper on this roster charts right now?

See, that's the question. I think they got three young guys, I think, will stick around. that are pretty cheap. So you've got Jalen Brunson, a backup point guard, Dorian Finney Smith, 6'8 3-Indie wing-ish, Maxie Kleber, kind of a do-it-all, Jack of All-Trades, big. Those are probably all bench guys on a good team.

I think those are three, they're part of your supporting cast. They're very cheap, whatever. The big question is going to be with Hardaway and Barnes. Like, how are those guys going to fit? Because I was like talking to Danny about this, there's a lot, like, for Luca as the point guard,

there's a lot of guys who are gunning for shots. Tim Hardaway don't pass the ball. Harrison Barnes never passes the ball. Does Harrison Barnes know how to pass the ball? Does he know that's an option or like does his controller just not work? The button, the pass button just doesn't work for him. I think he's like he left Golden State and it's like, you know, I'm the guy now. I don't want to be stuck in this role and I'm not even sure, but he never passes.

So that'll be kind of tough for Luke. I think Luca is going to have to grow a lot in terms of man, I got to keep a lot of guys happy right now. There's a lot of, that ball's not going to move unless Luca moves that ball. So I'm not sure about Barnes long term either. I could see him getting moved. I think, you know, with some of these names, they're not part of the long-term picture. The question really will be is when do they add those guys to this core long-term? Because assuming they give Chris Dapps to max this summer, you look at their cap situation,

they're unlikely to have more than a non-taxpayer mid-level exception, which means they could create cap space in 2020, but that's a weak free agent year. Okay, KOC, before we get there, I got to like, let me read, like, let's hit this. So you're thinking they're going to max out KP this summer and that's going to be done? Well, here's the thing. So from the Knicks perspective, I think this summer there's a high likelihood there would have been a max offer sheet

on the table for him or at least a near max offer sheet. So whether or not Dallas wants to give him the money, I think the probability is out there that somebody would max him. So Dallas would have to match anyway. You're not going to just let him walk. So you think he's not going to send the qualifying offer and do that one?

I just, I would be absolutely floored. It was a bluff, I think. Put it that way. I think it was all a bluff. Yeah. The thing I'm like worried about more than anything else, is that he takes just one year offer,

things don't work out. I mean, like, you can see the downside really fast, right? If he leaves, then Lucas, like, this team sucks, and it's like, man, you've got like these unpropected picks sitting out there.

I felt this could be Brooklyn South if it goes south, unless KP signs that offer. Right? Jeez. So, what, one thing to, what would the bluff be? What would the bluff be in terms of him taking that qualifying offer?

Like, what does that entail? Well, that means, I want to be gone. Right. Restricted free agent. So, yeah, sure. your offer. One thing that I heard yesterday, this was after that initial report from Shams came out and before the stuff that came out later about him possibly, you know, giving this a chance. The one thing that I heard is that the teams that he actually has interest in or the original list of teams that Wode reported were pursuing Porzingis. Those teams were the raptors, the heat, the nets, the clippers, and the spurs. I've heard that those were the five teams that he actually would have interest in joining. And, you know, I reported this in December, Frank Isola reported it last year.

The Spurs are a team that really likes Christaps, Porzingis. I think maybe the Nets with the cap space they have can make that offer sheet for Porzingis. Maybe Dallas wins him over. Maybe they don't. But I still think they're in a spot where they would match that offer sheet anyway. Of course they would. 100%. Exactly.

So I just don't see a scenario where he would sign the qualifying offer. I just would be floored if that were to happen. With his injury history, I just can't see how it's even an option. Yeah, because I've wondered if some guy would do that. And it's just like, it's crazy to think a seven foot three guy with a 20th be the guy to break that wall and just go ahead and take the qualifying offer. But if he does, that's a whole different ball game. Charks, you know, we alluded to this earlier, but in 2020,

the top unrestricted free agent is Draymond Green. Other than that, there's really not much out there. In 2020, what I like, stronger? Who do you like that guy like? I'm not sure when he's up, but Bogdan Bogdanovich. Let's go full euro, baby. If you're talking Euro, why not in 2021 pursue Yonis Antoninacombo?

Well, you know who's brother plays for this team now. So the match have, they drafted costs out of a cunbo. They have a G-League team. I mean, it's definitely a thing they're thinking about 100%. I mean, it's definitely a thing that all Mavs fans in my mentions

have been thinking about. Why not? Why not? Never so far away. But yeah, the Mavs aren't ones to like use Kappa space. They like to think big. It is far away, but it's not that far away.

It's 2021 will be here before we know it. You know, it's already 2019, man. 2021's only two years away. I think, you know, I would bet on Yanna staying in Milwaukee if they continue, you know, being contending team. They've been unbelievable. But a lot can change in two years. I think for now, for the Mavs, though, like,

I think right now the biggest thing is Luca and KP, we want you guys to get a trillion statistics. Feel great about yourselves. We're not worrying about a third point. person right now. This is your team. Y'all are the show. However many stats you want to get, just go for it. Don't even worry about anyone else right now. Let's just get your numbers up. Get you happy. Sign you a long term. If you guys were to bet, would you guys bet on KP playing a game this season? I mean, no one's talked about it. I have no idea. Well, KP, there was reports,

I think maybe in November or December, that KP, or whenever it was. KP thought he could play at some point this season, but the Knicks were the ones that were like, no. Because they're tanking. They're tanking. They're trying to lose games to increase their odds at Zion Williamson. And KP would help them win games. For Dallas, they're in an interesting spot right now,

sharks where there is incentive to lose games because of the increased odds with their current top five protected pick that could be conveyed to Atlanta if it doesn't land in the top five. Okay, actually, KOCC, what was the deal with these picks? I got really confused by this.

Okay. So at one point I heard that Hawks pick was no longer protected at all. I don't understand. So basically, here's how the picks work out. Right now, Dallas owes a top five protected pick to the Atlanta Hawks. If they convey that to Atlanta, the picks will be in 2021 and 2023 going to the New York Knicks. If the Dallas Mavericks land in the top five this year with their draft pick, right now they have 9.4% odds of landing in the top four, then they keep their pick, which would mean they give the 2020 pick to Atlanta. So instead, they would give the 2022 and the 2024 to the New York Knicks.

In 2022, unprotected completely? Yes, the first next one is unprotected. The second one is top 10 protected.

That's the way it'll work. I think the likelihood is that they will give up the 19 to Atlanta than 21 and 23 to the Knicks. But we'll see what happens

on lottery night. The Dallas Mavericks right now, they have a depleted roster. Right? We'll see how Tim Hardaway and Courtney Lee Fair next to Luca Dantrich.

But if they continue to lose games right now, they're only two and a half back from the seventh best odds. Here's my guess is what would happen. I think if the Mavs got the one, they would take Zion. If they got two through five, they're going to move that pick, I would guess. They're not going to keep it. What's funny is, I've always pretty much wanted Zion on the Knicks

just because I think the pairing of him in Porzingis is like ideal. The fact that it could maybe potentially very small percentage, but it could potentially happen in Dallas is delightful. Along with Dodger-Mavs beat rider position, I might just have to stop coming up. If they give Zion, KP, and Luke on the same team, are you kidding me? As of now, there's a 2% chance that could happen.

But like I said, if they, if, if Dallas rises up the lottery rankings to sixth or seventh worst record, they could have a 9%, 7.5% chance at Zion Williamson. Oh, my goodness, pretty good. I also think worth pointing out, like, if it's a 20-22 pick, that's probably going to meet the double draft. So if that could be an unprotected double draft pick, that'd be incredible. Absolutely.

I think that's an interesting variable for the Knicks. With Chris Staps, Porz, Porzengis, we've alluded to this a couple times, but it's not like this is a guarantee for the Mavericks. There's an element of risk here considering Porzingis's injury history. He's missed 110 of 296 possible games in his four seasons next to this very short list of injuries, torn left ACL, sore left Achilles, sore left knee, sprained left ankle, sore left groin, spraying left quad, bruised left thigh, sore right hip, sprained right ankle, sore right foot, inflammation to the bone and tendon of his right knee, lower back tightness, right shoulder strain,

an unspecified right elbow issue, upper respiratory infection, bouts with the stomach flu. Danny, you look in utter shock right now at this list of injuries. So what it sounds like, okay, so KP is 23 years old. What it sounds like is he just kind of doesn't really know his body. And, you know, he might just be a very rash player who's like, you know, of the, kind of old school Iverson ilk who's just like, I'm just going to play through all of this because like I'm young and I can do this. But the thing is, his games played per season has dropped every single season he's been in the league, which is not something you ever want to see.

That has dropped every single season of his career. And also the one trend, though, is that every year around mid-year's production just hits a wall. As a rookie, he hit it in mid-January. As a sophomore, it happened in mid-December. And then, Last season, he had that just ridiculous start, averaging 30 points, a true shooting percentage of 61. He was talked about as an MVP candidate. He was amazing. He was unbelievable. And then he fell off a cliff.

His efficiency dropped, as production across the board dropped, and that's where maybe it's a good thing playing alongside Luca Donchich, where somebody can help carry the load for him. But the concern is, is a lot of these injuries are non-contact. There were questions pre-draft about his durability with his funky 7-foot-3, frail friend. frame, it's a legitimate concern moving forward for the Nix. And I bet this was the real reason why they were reluctant to give him the money, not because of his unhappiness with the team. And it's also why for Dallas, this is of risk. It's risk worth taking because they're not the free agent destination that the NICs are,

where they can open space and sign somebody. For the Mavs, this is a chance to get a superstar player despite the risk charts. So it does make you wonder. I think this is a good segue to the next part of our conversation. So do you think this trade from the NIC's perspective was more about what could happened this summer or was about KP? I don't know about KP really. I think it's both. I do. You know, you and I and Roger Sherman all had different angles on this trade for the Knicks and Mavericks. Mine focused, you know, mostly on the Knicks. And I think for them,

they're in a spot right now where by doing this trade, they can create over 70 million in cap space, which means they could open the cap to sign two backs players. They want to pursue Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. That is no secret in the league. It hasn't been a secret for a while now. Before this trade, they would have had to have given up first-round picks to dump Courtney Lee or Tim Hardaway. That's what people assume they would do this summer if they were able to sign KD and another Max player. Instead, they went the other way by trading Chris Staps and getting picks in return. I think that's part of it, Sharks. I think the other side of it is, you know, it relates to the injuries. Do you really want to give Chris Staps for Zingis this money when he's not happy here and he also hasn't proven that he can

sustained success over a full season. I think it's a legitimate concern. I remember last year, I think you actually edited this article, Danny. The KPPs? The KP one, yeah, last season. There was like a story I had in there. I had lunch with two executives one time a couple years ago. Oh, yeah, I remember this.

Yeah, I remember this. Yeah, I remember this. We were talking about Chris Stapp's Porzingis, and one of the executives, you know, is like, I love him. I'd trade for him. I'd give up, you know, number one pick or whatever. And then the other guy was like, I wouldn't. I don't think he's built for success. look at his history of injury, look at how his production drops every year, and also, like, how great is he really in that number one role?

I'm butchering the story, but point is that it's not like there's consensus across the league that this guy is going to be a top 10 player. There's a lot of people who don't view him as that. So for the Knicks, maybe that was part of it, not just with Phil Jackson going back to the times where they could have traded him for the number four pick to get Josh Jackson or all the other trade rumbling. maybe there's an element where they're like, let's flip this now for a really young point guard prospect

and Dennis Smith who we liked in the draft and get the cap space to do this crazy stuff this summer or in the future. I think it's all of it in combined charts. So you think, I mean, like there's a case too made then even if they don't get their stars this summer, having all these picks and then using their cap space for a million different reasons might be a better long-term play

than keeping KP at 160 million then. For sure. I think, you know, through all of this, We've talked so much about the, you know, the potential of signing for agents this summer and the draft picks they got. Dennis Smith is still an appealing prospect, isn't he, Danny? It's only 20 years old, right? Yeah. Yeah, and we've been, you know, hammering this the entire year.

Look, it takes a really long time for point guards to develop. And the guy is one of the top three athletes in the league. You know, when you have a chance with a guy like that on a rookie contract, why not? I will say this, like this team, this post-apocalyptic trade team from a quarterly perspective, it's kind of fun, right? Dennis Smith, Frankie Smokes, Alonzo Trier, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson. Noah Vonle. They've got some prospects. They're kind of a fun team.

Yeah, I believe it was Jason Concepcion who was just like, I am terrified of those 12 games in which Dennis Smith Jr. is just going to go off and ruin our lottery chances. You know, it's going to be fascinating. to see what happens. I mean, in theory, Dennis and Frank, right? That's kind of interesting pairing. If Frank even plays them anymore, I don't even know. That's 8 to 9 in the 2017 draft, right?

Yep, yep. And there was, you know, people in the next front office to prefer Dennis Smith over. Frank Nilakina, of course, it's well-known by now, that Nilakina was Phil Jackson's pick. It was one of the last decisions he made.

I'm thinking about, right? So, like, let's say, forget the free agents. Like Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox front court, Dennis Smith, you draft a win. they have a fun young team. And they're loaded with picks here, right?

There was a report that dropped during the podcast from Shams Sharania that, and this is not a secret at this point, the Lakers are Anthony Davis's preferred destination. But Shams added that the Knicks are also a preferred landing spot for Anthony Davis. And I think that's one of the intriguing aspects of this trade for the Knicks because I reported this yesterday. The Pelicans were notified that Porzingis did not intend to resign their long term if he were traded there,

similar to Lonzo Ball, who said he doesn't want to play in New Orleans. And look, these guys who are on rookie contracts, they don't have much say, as we talked about earlier, because the team has their rights. But regardless,

Ward Janowski also reported that the Pelicans didn't want Chris Daps anyway. Well, this summer, if this lasts until the summer, they might want Dennis Smith, they might want Kevin Knox, they might want wherever that pick lands.

They might want Frank Nilakina. They may want these future Dallas Mavericks picks and future Knicks picks, they might want all that. So I think for New York, they position themselves, and this is probably not going to happen, but they at least position themselves to be able to dream to sign two max players

and then have the assets that work salary-wise to land Anthony Davis. They could at least have the ability to do that. It's the best of both worlds. You basically get that max-based for two guys, plus you have a war chest in your back pocket. Whether or not it's desirable to most teams is to be determined,

but you at least give you, you at least give yourself that option. I think Kevin Peltin on ESPN when he wrote his trade grades made the comparison to the Gianjala Russell trade. That's a good comparison. That's a very good comparison

in terms of, look, you're letting go of a very quality talent, ironically from the same draft. But, you know, the amount of flexibility that you get as a result of it is, I mean,

it basically created the Lakers team. as we know it. We should probably get into this too. This trade kind of changes the whole Anthony Davis thing because all of a sudden, with this Kyrie talk happening, maybe New Orleans does not Boston's tradeoff for this summer like in their back pocket anymore.

That was always a concern, Charks. I think for New Orleans, that's why right now they need to seriously consider any offers there on the table because, look, things can change by the summer. Either AD gets hurt or Tatum gets hurt or Boston decides, you know what?

We're not offering Tatum. We'll give you Jalen Brown, though. That's always a possibility by the summer. So I think with the Knicks suddenly, do they move into that pole position if they were to land the number one pick or even the number one, number two pick? Maybe Pelicans love R.J. Barrett. Maybe they love John Morant. Maybe if it's in the top three, they prefer that player over Jason Tatum. We don't know how they independently value these guys.

I think the Knicks increase their odds of getting Anthony Davis. Yeah, and I think really, though, like it makes Davis more available. right now for anyone. I think like every team should be trying to get them right now. Because Boston's not there to like trump, imaginarily trump your offer. Right now, they just can't even make an offer because of the rule where they already traded for a rookie signed to it as a designated player in Kyrie. It's like literally cannot make a trade for Anthony Davis now unless they were to trade Kyrie Irving. But Anthony Davis's interest in Boston hinges on Kyrie Irving being there because of the close friendship that they have. And so the tough thing for the Celtics this summer is

that suddenly the Knicks are more appealing as a destination for him, and they have the team that has been looming since he was a young player for the Cleveland Cavaliers as a team that wants to pursue him and will pursue him this summer. And now, instead of the Knicks being able to pitch Kyrie saying, oh, come play with Chris Stap's Porzing is a guy that has missed 110 of 296 possible games and has only sometimes flash super star potential. It's like, oh, maybe you can come with KD or 80, two of your really close friends. So I think the Knicks positioned themselves to, look, they aren't necessarily going to make it happen, but they can make a stronger pitch this summer to these star players than they could have before the trade.

And I think for Boston, they have to be just shook a little bit here. The Knicks were always a threat for Kyrie. And the fact that they increased their odds means their odds can be decreased for AD, which means for the Pelicans, there's less incentive to wait until the summer. Right. Yeah, that means the Lakers are probably loving this then in some sense, because now their offer looks a lot better. But they've probably put all their guys on the table, right? Ingram, Zubach, Lanzo, Hart, the picks, Kuzma, whatever.

I love the fact that Zubach is just like a shoe-in for this trade. Like, he's just suddenly a trade asset that we all agree. Hey, man. Like, okay, yeah. You know what, let's hit this real quick right now. One thing that I heard through all the madness yesterday is that, and you just mentioned this chart, is that the offer is Ingram, Lanzel Ball, Kyle Kuzma,

Zubats and two first-round picks for 80. That's what I heard right now is the offer from the Lakers of the Pelicans. If I'm New Orleans, I'm like, give us the four first-round picks and we'll do it right now. See, to me, there's better offers out there, though.

I don't believe that's the best offer. Even more than four first-round picks. Well, I'm doing a piece next week on, like, other teams that can go all in for 80. Like, Toronto. To me, if you get like Seaccombe, OG, and like Fred Van Vlitt and some picks, I'd rather have that than Lakers' picks

you're going to be useless anyways in the Lakers young guys. Look, so the Raptors got stomped by the Bucks yesterday night, but it was a perfect, perfect Seacom showcase. Oh, he was great. He was so good. I'm saying Siakam OG Front Court for five, ten years. I'm more into that from the LA package. You know, I think the threat of AD leaving after one year for the Lillac because it's super, super real.

There's a real chance that that would happen. Yeah, but if you got Hawaiian AD together. Well, yeah, I agree. And, you know, I made the same point, you know, in my mind. article last week where it's like Toronto, the Nuggets, if you pair them with your star players after a year, AD, how is he going to leave that? Ultimately, AD wants to win above all else.

Clutch, and, you know, there's an aspect that he wants to play with LeBron and L.A. too, but if you're winning the NBA finals, I know, I know, exactly, right. Exactly. And if you're winning the NBA finals with one of those teams, or at least competing for a finals, how do you leave that? I think it's worth the risk for one of those teams. I feel like for Toronto for sure.

Yeah, for sure, especially now. And if Toronto, let's say Toronto or Denver were to make a deal now pre-deadline, guess what? They could flip him during the summer and get that Lakers deal. Yeah, they could get that Lakers deal or that Celtics deal from whoever during the offseason. So I think right now those teams should be pushing for an AD trade knowing that they could flip him. Yeah, me and Danny were talking about this like, Kauai and AD in the same team. Like, is there even a comparison for like two players that skill set on the same team in their prime?

Like, the closest that I got was a tandem that never existed. T-Mack and Tim Duncan, who were, you know, reportedly, you know, very close to being... Orlando, right? Yeah, on Orlando for a bit. But, you know, I can't think of a better comparison than that. I mean, yeah, you got a seven-foot guy defensive player of the year, six-foot-eight-eight-old player of the year. They both don't score 30 points in a game like it's nothing.

Like, that's insane. I would not be surprised if a, you know, a sleeper team... stepped up to the plate here and made a significant offer that's acceptable for the Pelicans before the deadline. But I also just ultimately comes down to the point where I think the threat of him leaving for L.A. is just so real that these teams, they are in really good spots right now. Particularly, you know, Toronto and Denver, the two teams that can theoretically make a strong offer for AD. I'm not sure you can give that up. It really depends on how much you're giving up here. I mean, how many first round picks are you adding to Ciac. I mean O'G&OB. How many are you adding to Jamal Murray and Michael Porter?

I think that's where what the risk comes down to is what's everything else in the package. I think that the difference though, like if the Celtics aren't on the table, because they have all those juicy. I guess the next are on the table now. But like the Lakers picks aren't that exciting because they have LeBron ID in this scenario. So those picks aren't like unbeatable. Whereas the Boston trade package is so different because they had such so many high picks. Exactly. And I think that's why the Boston trade is still the most appealing one out there for.

the New Orleans Pollockans because they could get a really good young player in Tatum or Brown or some combination including Marcus Smart and then they can get a Grizzlies pick that right now is top eight protected in 19, top six protected in 2020 and then unprotected in 2021. I mean that is a really

appealing draft pick. Look, there's some good deals out there for them just to circle back to that Lakers offer again. So I get the impression that both you guys wouldn't have any interest at all on taking that right now. Is that fair to say?

Like the Ingram Ball, Zubots, Kuzma? I wouldn't say no interest. But I think there's better offers. Yeah, I mean, if the Lakers threw everything, that would probably be the only way in which I... I think if they do that, I'm like shopping that offer. I don't know if the one's being very aggressive right now. But if L.A. gives me that offer,

I'm shopping it everywhere around the league to see if it can be beaten. I'm not just making it. I'm curious about that deal. Is it less appealing because there's no guaranteed star? player in that. Like Tatum is not a guaranteed star, but there's a higher probability. Well, I guess I've gotten my head about this Toronto thing.

Like, would you rather have Siakum or Brandon Ingram? I'd rather have Brandon Ingram. Okay. I just, I think Siakum is a really, really, really good player. Um, who has been better than I think anybody, any of us could have expected me, be better than even he could have expected for that matter. Um, but there, there's a certain like in between element and his game that doesn't really exist, like, yet.

The shot creation. The shot creation. The shrewible aspect. Exactly. Which is something that Brandon Ingram has in spades, but he doesn't really have a lot of the things that Siakum does. So it's kind of like this weird, and I've talked to L.A. fans about this, where they were like, they saw Seacom play once, and they were just like, wait, I think

this guy's better than Ingram. Right now he is. Yeah. Right now he's better. I remember watching a game, I think it was a Utah game, and he was like taking it at Gobert constantly. and just finishing over Gobert. I'm like, this guy can finish over anyone.

He's got the handles a little bit. He can pass on the move. Yeah. And his shot, like, Ingram's shot, no guarantee either. Seacom is getting better as a shooter. I think he's a better fit of shoot at Ingram right now as it is. Here's the thing. Seacom turns 25 in April.

That's true. Ingram just turned 21 in September. Yeah, that's wild. That's the big difference here. And, you know, Ingram over the past six games has impressed. You know, Anger, it's just a short little stretch, but he's averaging nearly 23 points, five rebounds, four assists. 68 true shooting percentage.

He's getting to the rim at will. He's finishing well, and he's hot for mid-range. Ingram has shown these flashes for stretches. At a young age where he was expected to come into the league with his lanky frame and he'd take a while. Look, man, I feel like he's been underrated a little bit through this whole conversation. And then if you consider New Orleans, whether they want to keep Lonzo Ball, who also is a really good defender, really good rebounder, really good passer. there's been a lot of focus on his lack of a jumper and scoring, but he can do a lot else for you already.

And I think Phoenix, there's been talk of them having interest in Lonsa ball. If you were to flip ball maybe for T.J. Warren and Josh Jackson or something like that. Sure. I like the Lanzo Devin-Booker back court. That'd be a good back-door. I just think for New Orleans, they seriously need to consider that offer now

if the Lakers are willing to move to three or four unprotected first-round picks because there's a chance that could get worse this summer. as you mentioned, Charks, because of the possibility that that Boston offer wouldn't be there or the Boston offer would be diminished. And then the Lakers would be in a spot where they wouldn't have to give all of that up or to offer all that. Well, what other thing I was just thinking about, like, I wonder if New Orleans is worried they make a trade now to the team. And that team trades 80 this summer for a better deal, right? That got to be of a concern. Oh, to like the Denver Nuggets or Toronto.

Yeah, and they flip them somewhere else. And it's like they look really bad at that point. Oh, man. Yeah, the optics would be terrible with that. Like, okay, you can't worry about the optics, though. Yeah, but people do. People do, though. You know what they do?

You're right. That, uh, did you guys see that Brad Turner tweet, uh, about how magic had basically laid out five different offers? Yeah. How does that work? Do you think? Like, because wouldn't all five, if he laid them out all at once, wouldn't all five have to be kind of lateral, like, they would all have to essentially build up to the same conclusion, right?

It's not like one offer is, like, low-balled and then the other, and then it's, it's not like he's giving a full spectrum of the deals, right? I like a match. He goes to go, see I get himself like 10 minutes. All right, fine. Yeah, I want that one. I want the fifth one. I'm glad you brought out Magic Johnson,

because, you know, and the optics for that matter, because through all of this, there's been the conversation about like Popovich telling Del Dems don't trade him to the Lakers, you know. I don't care if the Lakers tampered. If you're the Pelicans, you need to take the best deal.

I don't care if Magic Johnson is tucking Anthony Davis into bed at night and whispering in stories of the Lakers' glory years to make him fall asleep. It doesn't matter. You need to take the best deal regardless of it. You need to remove emotion from the equation. I think it's petty to care about all that stuff. You need to take the

best deal regardless of everything else. Kevin O'Robot man, it's hard to do that sometimes. People like that have feelings. Yeah, well, you gotta take the best deal. And I don't know if that's the Ingram Ball, Kuzma, Zubot's first-round pick package. It may not be. And I think Boston could do better. I think other teams theoretically could too.

Yeah, I think that's like my main takeaway from this whole thing is like, New Orleans needs to get on it. Don't be waiting for an offer. I might never come. Let's get moving on this thing. So with Anthony Davis right now, he is, you know, on his second contract, wanting out of New Orleans with Chris Dap's Porzingis, just a circle back to him. He was still on his rookie deal already pushing his way out. When we were, you know, talking ahead of the podcast charts, you had some thoughts about how this could have implications down the line? Well, I was just thinking from like the mouse perspective, if KP would do this, why wouldn't

Luke could do it in two years if this team isn't going anywhere. Right? If you know them, I've learned for a long time whether a guy would ever actually do this, or they would ever actually turn the money down. Like, it's never happened before. But if you have confidence in yourself and the money you will make eventually no matter what, why don't give yourself more leverage? Like you saw it with Porzengis, he got himself a bad situation. If I was like Zion's agent, I'd be watching this. I'd be wondering if that's something I could do myself in four years. If I were in their shoes, I would automatically take the money. But you're right. Right. I don't have that kind of like supreme confidence in myself.

And the fact that... Are like Carl Towns, right? Carl Towns has got to be thinking about this right now. Like, dang, I'm here for a long time. It's cold. This team is going anywhere. I mean, but there's still time for, you know, Minnesota's kind of turning around. I think, like, you take the money and you, with the hope that, you know, the organization does right by you.

There's no guarantee of that, but, like, there's also... They'll never do the right by you. Right. it's a business. And again, like, it's the flip side. You didn't take a motion out of the equation. It's the fear of getting hurt if a Derek Rose-esque injury happens or DeMarcus cousins for that matter. Boogie was supposed to be a guaranteed max player.

Then he gets hurt. And what is he? He's signing for $5 million with the Warriors? It's the fear of getting hurt. I mean, got a few, very few guys in the past. I think Bobby Marks tweeted out 15. First round picks have signed the qualifying offer in the past. Ben Gordon, Michael Oloa Candy.

I mean, Robert Swift. Yeah. It was never guys who had the money and turned it down. It was guys who didn't get the deal they wanted. I mean, the funny thing is, I looked it up. The Michael Olo Candy one.

He had an offer from the Clippers for like seven years, $65 million, and he wanted seven years, $85 million or something like that. So he signed the qualifying offer. And then the rest of his career ended up signing a $3 million.

To stay in like the modern era, how about Nerlins' Noel, right? I forget how much money was offered, but it was a lot more than $3 million. It was like 16, 17 mil a year, right? For sure. You know, a lot of the guys are mentioning aren't players who have shown the upside as Chris Staps, Porzingis. That's the thing is like, it's a guy who has the money in his back pocket guaranteed. That's a whole different scenario they were seen before.

And I wonder if that's going to be thing that's more often. I don't know. I do wonder if it'll ever happen. I, like we talked about earlier, I think it was a bluff with Chris Taps, but who knows? Sometimes it seems like a bluff and then they actually do it. There's always a possibility. moving forward. Because I was thinking like with Luca,

like Luca doesn't know the Mavs anything. Like Luca was who he was in like 16 years old. He came to a team that gutted themselves to get him. He doesn't owe him to developing him. He can say in two years, this team is not good enough. Dallas, I don't care about Dallas really.

It's a random city to me. Does he seem happy there, Charks? I'm he's happy. I'm saying he's happy, but he doesn't owe them anything, right? I think even compared to most young guys, Luca's always, you know,

he always says, I've been to pro since I was 11 years old. like he doesn't care like he knows the deal whenever you ask the question I've been a pro and so was taught us to business just to games basketball

like sharks if you were to if you were to rate your donchish impression from a scale of one to ten what would it be that was bad probably like a two

what I'm saying like Lucas got the pro quote stuff you can tell he doesn't really care yeah I mean yeah and KOC you said at the very top of this

you know two years is not a long time no it'll be here before we know it is there anything that we didn't hit with this Dallas, New York trade that we need to hit right now before we move on to actual basketball stuff. Games are still being played, guys. I guess really small. I expect you'll see Wesley Matthews in like the Rockets in like two weeks. DeAndre Jordan got bought out.

So the guys who got sent, I think Matthews in a small role could still be a very helpful player for Houston. I think the Sixers and Thunder will have to probably. Sixers want Wesley Matthews. Yeah. Okay. That would make a lot of sense too. We'll see if they'll be playing significant minutes for someone in April and May. DeAndre Jordan, you guys? He'll get bought out too, I'm sure. I mean, actually, I was saying DeAnda's Canaan on the same team is hilarious for like two weeks. Hopefully if DJ does get bought out and signs of the content research trying.

Yeah. Yeah, that'd be nice. I mean, the Rockets have been doing really well with Farid and DeAndre has been wanting to play for the Rockets for like eight years now. It's amazing how the Rockets plug in any. Yeah, right. Forreed team done. And then, who was great with Houston. Yeah, James Hardin, man.

It's pretty easy. I could see both Dianne and Well, Welsie Matthews and Houston. Actually, I think about it. Why not? As mentioned, basketball games are still being played. And yesterday, LeBron James was back.

Best player in the world. Lakers beat the Clippers 123 to 120 in overtime. LeBron got a little warm-up in before Saturday's game of the Warriors against the Lakers. My only real thought from this game is LeBron's jumper looked weird.

He looked like an old man. jumper one for six from three, wasn't leaving the floor much. I mean, he's not rushing back, Danny. A groin injury. The thing about NBA players is, you know, it's all their bodies are temples and when one thing's off, everything's off.

So it's largely just probably just getting back into form. He looked more or less like himself. Yeah. Everything, yeah. Playing kind of half speed, but you know, yeah, it takes a while. Sixers also beat the Warriors yesterday. Clay Thompson did not play for Golden State.

But it's still really nice. For Philly, for sure. So really nice win. They beat the Warriors 113 to 104. Nobody on Golden State besides Stefan Curry could hit a three-pointer. Only Kevin Durant hit one. The rest of the team, I believe, was 1-420, I think, from three-point range last night. Jonah Bolden has continued to emerge charks, yes.

He had eight points last night, and 14 minutes, had some really nice defensive possessions for Philadelphia last night. he's emerged into a quality player. I mean, that's for Philly. Like, if they can get Bolden and sham it and they can trust them in the playoffs for like 15 minutes, it really makes them a better team. And Philly is a team, I think, be very interesting to watch next to what they're going to do. I'm really curious to see if they make a move or what the Bougat is going to be. For them, I think they need to add two things.

I know they're looking for a wing, and they need a better backup center. I think Bolden has done a nice job, and maybe he can play some five for you in smaller lineups, but you still need a bigger backup five. I think Dwayne Deadman from Atlanta makes some sense for them. Yeah. The question is when you'd give up to get Deadman. It'd be real helpful for them. Markle Fultz out there?

Imagine giving up Markle Fultz for Dwayne Dement. I mean, the thing is, with the Hawks, the Hawks kind of have two guys that the Sixers could use. Baysmore, too. Tori and Prince. Your guy. Your trade guy, you know? Torian Prince, yeah.

I think there's a possibility they would trade Prince. maybe in a deal, if they're getting faults back and something more, that would be intriguing. See, I feel like Philly has to be aggressive here, because they've got to get the best possible teams and keep Jimmy this summer. I feel like Jimmy's out. I kind of do. I kind of do. Like, he had a, what happened yesterday?

Like, 36 minutes, he was like, I mean, he was playing like he was drunk on offense and crunk on defense. His defense is good. He made some really nice plays. But offensively, I don't know what happened to him last night. He looked like he couldn't dribble the ball. He had some really unusual turnover. What did happen with him, Danny?

It's a really weird game. It was a strange game, but it was also like, like, so you had written a piece about Jimmy Butler's increased isolation and pick and roll usage. Yesterday was really the Ben Simmons game. Yeah, I mean, he was terrific. Brett Brown was effusive in his praise saying, you know, it was the best game he's ever had in his career. 26 points on 10 of 13 shooting, 8 rebound, 6 assists.

It was just a complete, like, masterwork on both ends of the floor. against the Warriors. Yeah, that's the thing. It seems like when one is good, the other is off. It feels like they're never on the same time. Right. I think, you know, on Thursday night's game, when the Sixers visited the Lakers,

there was talk before the game. I hope Butler was going to play point guard. And then after the game, you know, Ben Simmons was asked about it. And he was like, oh, yeah, I had less responsibility on my hands. I rewatched a lot of the possession. It didn't seem really any different at all.

I mean, Butler got a handful more. Possessions bringing the ball up. But Ben Simmons was still the primary playmaker on that team. And last night against Golden City certainly was the primary guy. Butler handled the ball a little bit towards the end of the game. Had a great pass, I think, the JJ Redick, who had hit a dagger three-point shot. But ultimately, right now, Butler is still the third wheel on this team. And there's definitely a risk that the clippers or nets or some other team is summer.

I feel like Jimmy on the Nets. That would be a interesting team. I think he's destined for the Nets. That brings us to the NBA watch of the night. Tonight we have the Rockets facing the Nuggets. 10 p.m. Eastern, 7 p.m. Pacific on ESPN. The Nuggets are 0 in 2 versus Houston so far this season. Charks, it seems like Houston's pick and roll offense,

led by James Hardin, has presented some matchup issues for Denver the season. Yeah, they tried, I think the last can they play, they tried to, like, blitz Hardin every single time, and it was like a complete disaster. They ran off the floor. So they still don't really have great answer for him. with Yokic and that pick and roll. It'll be tough to find answers for them.

I think, you know, with Capella out for a while now, maybe that matchup's a little bit easier, but as we alluded to earlier, Kenneth Farid has been really nice for them so far. Oh, a Farid revenge game. She mentioned that. That's going to be kind of fun, actually. Great point.

At Nuggets, he's going to be ready to go. He's about to fight someone tonight. I'm excited for that one tonight. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA Pass on NBA.com. Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider. Saturday night, Danny, I know there's one game that you'll be up late watching, staying home, or watching on your phone if you're somewhere out eating some really good food.

What game is it, Danny? This is very odd brands. I'm going to be out in the club with my phone out watching Hawksons. Let's do her. She wrote, Danny. All right, so Herder She wrote, this has been kind of a tough week for my guy. He had a neck injury, so he missed, you know, two games, came back. hasn't really found his shot yet

but I recently followed him on Instagram he went out bowling the other day You get that follow back Danny? I did not I did not This is happening We'll get it

Did you sign him the EMS I'm your biggest fan Clearly he doesn't know about this A plus segment that we do over at the corner three Let's raise our bread awareness folks Let's get on it Yeah so he went bowling That's the news I have to report

It's pretty good bowling's fun Yeah It's fun that's good news I like it The thing is, like, he's just returning to form the previous 10 games before his injury, he was playing like 37 minutes a night. Like, this dude is like clearly like a building block for this team. So this is a really, really silly question.

But was it standard 10 pin bowling or like candle pin bowling? I don't even. Wait, what? I'm not even talking about this. Dude, I was in, I was in bowling club in high school. But that was just an excuse for me to go bowling. every once in a while. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Candlepin bowling is, I think it's really popular in the Northeast. Okay. Candlepin bowling is like a smaller ball. Oh. It's like a ball without holes in it. So I, so you just like chuck it?

Yeah, it's, candlepin bowling. Okay, so I just pulled up Wikipedia. It said, Candlepin bowling was developed in 1880 in Worcester, Massachusetts. Oh, God. So maybe it's not even a northeast thing.

It might just be a Your literal Your hometown thing But I'll tell you what I had never played Or done 10 pin bowling Until I was a teenager Wow

KFC are you telling me This is better than normal bowling Is that what you're telling me? Look, it's what I prefer Because it's what I was raised with It's really fun The more you know, man It's pretty fun

If you ever If you ever on a food trip Or basketball trip in Massachusetts Danny I highly recommend Try candle pinball Yeah, man Speaking about New England The Patriots are in the Super Bowl

facing the Los Angeles Rams on Sunday. You guys have any predictions for the game? Who are you going to be watching with? Are you going to be watching? KOC, sell me on why I should want the Patriots to win because I want them to lose real bad. Like, what's the pitch for me as non-Patishers? I mean, I'm not going to try to sell you to root for a team

that's won five Super Bowls this century already and isn't there. Charks, you invited this. They're an easy team to hate. I understand that. Totally understand. I'm not going to try to. to sell you. I just, I think, you know, it's like I always say, you know, with LeBron James,

don't take LeBron James for granted. I just don't think, don't take Tom Brady for granted. This is special what's happening right now with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick going to their 9th, losing count, like 9th Super Bowl right now. Hard to, hard to believe. Nenth Super Bowl. Losing count. Ah, that's disgusting. That's, I mean, that's what I mean. It's unbelievable. LeBron going to 8 straight finals is unbelievable. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick going to their 9th Super Bowl. it's remarkable.

It really is. Do you guys have a prediction for the game? I mean, my heart wants the Rams to win, but I can't go against, like, the logic of the Patriots just being the best. I just kind of like the storybook of it. The Patriots run starts with beating the Rams. It ends with losing to the Rams.

It kind of wraps perfect. Poetic. I prefer it with the Patriots beating the Rams again. And then then continuing to go to Morseys in the coming years. I know and everybody hates me. I'm a Patriots family. You deserve it.

That's why. Anyway, that was cool, guys, but it's all we have time for today. Danny, John, thank you. Yep, absolutely. All right, y'all. Good stuff. Looking forward to next Friday. Thank you guys again.

And thank you for listening to the Corner 3. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Give us a thumbs up on YouTube. Tell your friends. Tell your family. Tell your dog. Tell Chase Serrano. Tweet your favorite player.

Tell everybody up at the show, that would be really appreciated. Thank you. Special shout-out to Bobby Wagner for producing the podcast. Thank you again for listening. On Monday, John Gonzalez will be back with the new episode of Heat Check.

Then I'll be joining Chris Vernon on Tuesday for The Mismatch. Check out my article on Chris Stapps on the ringer. John wrote about it from the Mavs perspective and Roger Sherman wrote about it from a Knicks fan perspective. All that's really cool stuff to read.

Until then, I hope you have a beautiful weekend.