The Ringer NBA Show - Kyrie Irving's Shutdown, Sixers Stay Hot, West Playoff Carousel, and Hope for Bottom-Dwellers | Group Chat (Ep. 242)

Episode Date: April 5, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Paolo Uggetti to react live to the Kyrie Irving knee surgery news (1:25) and discuss the impact of the injury on the rest of the Eastern Conference (13:04). Then, they debate which contending team will make it into the Western Conference playoffs (23:11) and look to the future for lottery teams (34:20). Preorder new Ringer merch here: http://bit.ly/ringershop. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's group chat, the preferred podcast. of blog boys and blog girls everywhere. Pala Ugetty. What's up? Justin Varyer. Howdy? Chris Ryan. We were actually live on Periscope right now to talk about Kyrie Irving, who now we found out from... You do it.

You got to do it. It's your bit. Adrian Wojj Niroowski. Woo! Wojboh! Wodge Bomb, Kyrie. In the aftermath of the left knee surgery, Boston Celtics All Star Guard, Kyrie Irving will miss the rest of the regular season and playoffs.

League sources told ESP P.N. This is, Kyrie's got a bad, not left knee. Like, that is, like, now the case. And, you know, when this trade happened, it was the Celtics, we're getting an all-N-B-A point guard, an NBA, an NBA finals hero,

a guy to lead their franchise to where they wanted to go back to the top of the mountain. And now there's, like, actually, like, real concerns that, like, both of the major pieces in this trade are damaged goods. I'm actually not, you know, I'm not, there's no, like, Philadelphia bullshit. going on here.

Like, I actually, I'm serious. The list of what's happened to Kyrie's left knee since he came to the league is daunting. He's got tendonitis. He's fractured the knee cap. This is the, I think the second knee surgery he's had on this knee. He missed the last couple of weeks. And it looks like he's just, he's not going to be able to come back. Now, Justin, you were just saying that there is some talk about the Celtics are

going to get some second opinions here. It seems like it. Yeah. Well, it went from like, what I found shocking is that it went from a minimally invasive procedure, which is what they called it at first, to now, in the Wojury report, it says that they're going to look for other options to see how to treat the left knee.

There are no minimally invasive procedures. There's procedures, and there's not procedures. Yeah, that's the takeaway from this, especially when, as you mentioned, just the laundry list that Kyrie has, like, kind of had with his knee. Yeah. I mean, I think the big question going forward is how much to react or overreact here, because as you mentioned,

like, is this the type of thing that could potentially change the future of the Boston Celtics? or is it more of a precautionary measure? They looked at the landscape said that maybe this isn't our year, and we'll just put them on ice for now and start again new with Gordon Hayward, Kyrie, and potentially another draft pick to go with them. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that I do find annoying about this

is that even if the worst case scenario comes out, and you've basically got Kyrie Irving, who is going to have to compensate for a left knee that always might give out on him or give him trouble, the Celtics are still in a pretty good position because they do have those draft picks, because they do have somebody like Tatum, because they do seem to be able to manufacture

guard talent out of late first round, early second round or undrafted players, whether it's Terry Rozier, whether it's Shane Larkin, like the guys who were they playing last name? Yeah, it's like Kadeem Allen, it's getting some minutes out there. So that's like a deep Arizona basketball cut from a few years back. Yeah, IT last year. Yeah, IT last year.

Yeah, I essentially in that role. Now you bring up IT, and Haley was just talking about this on our Slack. I thought this was pretty interesting, is this whole thing and sitting Kyrie, and despite all the Instagram videos of Gordon Hayward wearing his hat backwards and taking 19 footers, maybe a little bit more caution on Boston's part this year,

you know what I mean? Not rushing people back, not putting people in a situation where they might do some long-term damage. Isaiah Thomas obviously came back for the Celtics last year, or played through a hip injury last year for the Celtics in the playoffs, was traded to Cleveland.

I'm not a doctor. You could make the argument that he came back all too early. for Cleveland, maybe he was concerned about getting some tape going for this season so that he could get his free agency contract, which traded to the Lakers and is now going to miss the rest of the season after re-injuring his hip. Maybe Boston and maybe Kyrie are playing it a little safer this year. Yeah, I would look at it just from the Celtics perspective.

It seems like everyone last summer and even before that were pushing them to make the move, and it seemed like they had set themselves up really well in order to make the right move. and they decided after they didn't get Paul George, they didn't get Jimmy Butler to go all in on Kyrie. And I think the optimist perspective was just, this is a guy who's still super young. He has proven himself in the finals. He has another like ceiling to really hit here.

Now we're seeing kind of the downside of kind of pushing your chips all in on one guy already, as opposed to maybe waiting another year, waiting for an Anthony Davis, waiting for someone else to kind of shake free. The Celtics really are who they are. And they can still make moves on top of that. but it does start you start to wonder like is this the team that we thought could rule the east for the next couple of years.

I mean, I don't think it's a situation where there should freak out or it's like a doom and gloom situation because like Gordon Hayward, you know, still coming back. And I think that kind of set the narrative for the season. You know, people love to say this because it's kind of like, okay, since Gordon Hayward got hurt in the first game of the season, it changes from, oh, this could be our year to, you know, let's just see where we, where Brad Stevens can lead us with this rack tag group. of players and then just kind of play for next year. But now I think the problematic part is the recurring career thing, which is what you're talking about. I think, you know, how that factors into how much of a burden Gordon Hayward has to take when he comes back or, you know,

how it all progresses going forward. But I still think they have so many assets and so many... Yeah, let's not cry. Yeah, exactly. That's my point. Yeah, they've got two of the best young wings in the game with Jalen and Jason. They've got... They still have a piece of that Lakers pick whenever it winds up conveying to them,

depending on what happens in the lottery. They've got that 2019 Memphis pick could be the first pick in the draft for all we know. They've also got this probably one of the top three or four coaches in the league who seems to be able to take guys undervalued players and make them into NBA talents.

I mean, does a Terry Rozier-led Boston Celtics have a shot against the Miami Heat is the big question? Or against the Washington Wizards, which is who they're scheduled. Like, if the season ended today, they'd have those guys. I mean, I think you frame it as not a Terry Rozier-led Boston Celtics,

but like a Brad Stevens-led Boston Celtics. I think when you have that, it's more, no matter who's in there, they're going to have a shot, I think. Yeah, I guess if we're like recalibrating the expectations, it's all gravy from here. Because like you said, it's just, this is essentially the best training sim you can get for your young core going forward. But it is slightly disappointing because, as we've been saying all year,

like, when is the East going to be this soft? Like, we're at the point where we're resigning to the fact that the calves are probably going to win again simply because they have LeBron and that's enough when the Raptors have looked a little shaky when the Sixers have lost well and beat. So we're getting some questions

and Bennett Barber from Periscope asks if the Raptors don't make the finals is now a monumental failure. This is kind of the this is the trickle-down effect of this, right? Because now this changes the opportunity for a couple of teams. This puts a little bit more pressure

on some of the teams. There's no excuses. there's no, man, we got into a game six and Kyrie just took us apart. And it's not going to happen. You know, the Raptors, the Cavs, dare I say the Sixers, should all expect to at least, I think the first two teams should expect to beat Boston. And I think the Sixers could go toe to toe with the Celtics team. So how does this change what the outlook is for a team like the Raptors who beat the Celtics

last night on Wednesday? I think with the Raptors, it doesn't change it a lot because they're nemesis, if you will, is not the Celtics. It's, you know, the Cavs. And I think if you were to put them up against any team, Celtics, heat, wizards, all those teams kind of in the bottom half of the east, the Raptors should win that series no matter what. I think what they're shooting for is against the Cavs in the conference finals.

And I think it is, it would be a huge disappointment. But at the same time, I had this realization the other night. We're watching the Cavs play the Raptors, like, when LeBron turns it on and we're getting to that point in time, it's like, we're going to get chalked. Like, it's just like I have no faith in the Raptors, as much as I want to believe in, you know, how their system changing and all that,

that I still think that I would put my money on the Cavs right now. I mean, we talk about the window pretty much every couple of weeks here, especially in the East, and you look at who they will be up against the Raptors in the next couple of years, all of these teams potentially could get better. Like the Cavs, even, they will have this Brooklyn pick coming to them, and either they'll get the pick from that or they'll be able to swing that into another guy. Like the Pacers have an opportunity to add another guy next to Oladipa.

It might be a little bit more interesting. The Celtics, as we just mentioned, if Kyrie is healthy, and even if he's not, they have Gordon Hayward and more coming. So it's really on the Raptors at this point to kind of figure out their whole playoff mess and to kind of put this thing together. Hashtag Ringer NBA, if you guys have questions. I'm looking at the standings right now, and this seventh seed becomes incredibly valuable.

Let's just say you like your chances against a Boston team that is led by Jail and Jason and Horford and maybe a returning Marcus Smart, whatever. the heat and wizards I mean the difference between playing LeBron in the first round and playing uh Cadeem Allen in the first round

is pretty big to shuffle back into that 17th well that's the thing is that like I'm very curious about whether or not do you try to like land on a dime there or do you just say hey we're going to go through the rest of our season and if we have to play LeBron we have to play LeBron

you got to go through them in the first place if I'm Washington and I get and I get the Celtics in the first round and we win that I mean that's that's That's a good season all of a sudden for a Washington team that's been really up and down

and has been a couple of different versions of itself this season. I think you 100% try to like, if you can jockey back into the 7th seed, you do it. For the heat, I think it's going to be a little tough because they hold the tiebreaker,

I believe, over both the Wizards and the Bucks. And they're a half game up on both of them, if I'm correct on this. So they're going to have to lose a couple games to get back into that seven seat if that's what they want to do. Right.

And the Wizards, I wonder how much they're going to have to balance just figuring out their team before the playoffs with John Wall back in there. Yeah. And by the way, for anybody who's wondering

whether or not there is any, will he or won't he, like, you know, Willis Reed, limping back out of the court going on. Irving will undergo surgery on Saturday

and need four and a half, four to five months of recovery. Wow. So this is through the summer now. So they'll be getting Gordon, Hayward, and Kyrie Irving back for camp, hopefully,

but this is, do not expect any, any Kyrie coming out there and chucking up shots. You're going to see a lot of Gordon Hayward jogging videos over the next couple of weeks to just provide a little Boston fans, trust me. As somebody who's very familiar with watching Joel and Bede like going one-on-one with

like a trainer for a year, don't, don't do that to yourself. Greeny videos from Qatar. Okay. So yeah, so we were just talking about the Wizards and the Heat. Do you think, who do you think Boston would have a better chance against there? Probably the heat. Yeah. I mean, the Wizards just have a top end and they also have like the whole retribution thing going on

from last year. That's such a weak sauce funeral game now. Are the Wizards going to wear all black when they bury Jalen Brown? Stick to your bit. Yeah. Yeah, you got it. I think I am, if I'm the Celtics, I'm a little more afraid of the heat. I think they're scrappy.

I think like any night, any guy can, you know, beat you with 20, 30 points, whatever. And I think the Wizards, I'm still not sure what they are because of just the fluctuation between the injuries and all that. Like, they have a really good bench. if depending on how white side plays, they have a really good player playing center and playing rim protector if he does play to that level.

So I think I'm, there's really no good scenario here, I think, with either team just because you're just so injured if you're the Celtics. But I would say, I would try to play the Wizards. Are you ready to talk about the Sixers yet?

Yeah, I just want to fast forward to it. Let's do it. Let's talk about the Sixers. This is part, basically we were about to go live. We were about to do the podcast and we decided to go live to talk about Kyrie, but one of the first things we wanted to talk about were the hottest team

in the league. And the, I would say the best team in the league since March 1st, which is the Philadelphia 76ers. I'm not, this is not a bit. I'm not, I'm not high on the process. Propaganda. I'm like, I'm just reporting, man. I'm just reporting the facts. Not a journalist, Nora O'Donnell. So 12th Street wins. Most wins for this, in a season for the team since 2002, 2003. Best net rating in the NBA since March 1st. Number two in office, number four in defense since March 1st. Ben Simmons has won the rookie of the year over the last 10 days. Sorry, Donovan Mitchell fans.

They can win through adversity. They've missed Mb'd for the last week or so. They've missed a serge from the last two days with an elbow thing. Markell Fultz took a three last night. Off the front rim. It looked like it could go in for a second. And you know who was taking threes at like a very nice clip in making them? One of the best ringer employees out there were JJ Reddick.

Oh, yeah. My favorite. He's on his most field goal attempts per game in his career right now. They are getting high usage rate JJ Reddick. He was really hot against Detroit last night. What is the ceiling for the Philadelphia 76ers with Joelle and Bede in a face mask? In a face mask. Okay.

I'm going to say they are in the conference finals against Cavs playing in game six. I think that's like playing game five or six getting to that point and being one of those teams where like, okay, we know who you are, we know how good you are, even though we've seen it at the regular season. Next season it's going to be like the year where you're going to scare everybody and possibly, you know, make a run for it. I think that's where I see them. Okay.

I mean, the reason why I wanted to jump to this segment is I think it jives with what we were just talking about there. Let's say... I love you. You're like my favorite. Oh, my God. Okay. You're totally my favorite.

I appreciate that. Right back to you, buddy. If they jump to the three seed and the calves slide to four, then you're looking at potentially a second round series against, let's say, the Boston Celtics or the Washington Wizards or whoever the... that beat the Celtics, all of a sudden, maybe you're looking at

conference finals, Philadelphia 76ers, and at that point, let's say they get noticed. Who knows? Why not us? They have a little confidence. Joelle B, and Bid, is playing like Cano.

Did you think Nick Foles was going to win the Super Bowl? Did you think Villanova was going to win the tournament? They are having a moment. Look, you know, the thing that's really impressive right now is that, um, you just play who you have in front of you.

This 12-game win streak is littered with some of the basement teams of the NBA. but as, you know, like Memphis beat Portland the other night. Like these teams are randomly getting victories here and there. You beat who's in front of you and the Sixers are beating them like pretty. Like they're like pushing them aside. And it's not like they're pushing them aside and they're the rockets and they're just like raining threes on, dude. They're just, they're like a muscular, switchy defensive team. I don't think anybody still, nobody still understands how to play Ben Simmons.

I don't even understand how you would even go about doing that. I don't know who you put on Ben Simmons on the perimeter. You cannot guard him with that same person if he decides to get to the rim. And their shooters are shooting right now. And they got Bellinelli and they got Eliasova. And they are a dangerous. They are a dangerous team. And they have nothing to lose.

Simmons is unreal to me because I think, you know, Danny had a great piece a few weeks ago where he talked about watching him and his impact. And it's just like amazing. I was looking at some of the numbers. And he's only scored single digits eight times this season. And even in those games where he hasn't impacted them. on the board.

Yeah. They're seven and one. So he's like impact them in other ways, you know what I'm saying? And I think also just the way he plays where he's kind of like a back to the basket point guard in a weird way because he does this like weird shift move that kind of throws and it goes back to you where you're saying. Like nobody can guard him because they haven't seen a ball handler who does these type of things.

And it's really remarkable to watch. I don't have, I wonder if they, I'm sure that Sportsview does this or there's something that does track this. But one of my favorite things to watch, especially if you just go on YouTube and watch like Ben Simmons highlights from a. particular game, which are usually like seven or eight minutes, is a heat map of where he passes from. Because Ben Simmons is like, not since Jason Kidd, have I seen someone who passes from farther away from the action? He routinely will be dribbling and be behind the center circle of

his, like in his half of the court, but moving into the second half, and we'll just one arm whip it to a guy on the wing or find somebody who's like doing a secondary break cut towards the hoop. they are able to expand the court in a way that makes up for a lot of their shooting deficiencies from the guard position that they do still have, you know? Right, because the tough part about guarding him is you want to, as Paolo was suggesting, back up from him, give him the space to shoot,

but now he has more room to see, to orchestrate. And if you're giving him ahead of steam, that's like kind of the worst thing to happen because he could control his, like, huge body so well. And that's the thing is, how do you not give him ahead of steam? Right. Right. I mean, like, it's not, you can't put the point guard or the shooting guard on Ben Simmons

because he just is going to see over them. Right. It really comes down to, and not to go all Mike Lupica and everyone, but like... Do it. Do it. I love Mike Lupica. Well, just wait to get to the point here

because it comes down to like the old adage of playoff experience. Like how much do you actually need? And if they were to make the finals, let's say, wow. I mean, is it unprecedented for one rookie of the year and another guy who's basically in his extended rookie season based on games played?

Right. Leading them to that. That would be unprecedented. I don't think that I think that there are a couple of things that are still true about playoff basketball about distances. I mean, one of the things when you watch Simmons

and when you watch them play against these bad teams is there's just a lack of defensive intensity among these bad teams that I just think is not going to be the case. Especially even for guys like Redick, guys like Bellanelli who come off screens and do catch and shoots, they're just not going to get through, like, do their little

weaves through the court. It's easy. In the postseason, we have a couple of questions coming in through social media. Drew on Periscope, would you say the Sixers have a better future than the Celtics? I think that the Sixers

are, have like a higher top. Like the Embed Simmons thing could be two generational players, which is basically that's why you play the Game of Thrones. The Celtics have, A, way more depth

and B, have shown the ability to make the right decisions about personnel in terms of getting a guy like Jason Tatum, getting a guy like Jalen Brown, finding people like Rozier and Larkin who can fit your system, getting Baines, getting Daniel Thies. Like these guys where it's just like, I didn't see it, you know,

maybe three GMs in the league would have seen a move like that, but Danny makes that happen. And they have contributions coming from other places. And let's say they come into next season, Kyrie's healthy, Gordon Hayward's Healthy, Al Horford's Healthy. That's three All-Star. So that's, they just have three All-Stars, two of which are in their prime.

Injuries aside, I think the Celtics have like a better immediate future. The Sixers could be better than the Celtics in four or five years, I think. I think at the beginning of the season, I think we were talking about what rivalries are we excited for, you know, in the next year and the next few years. And I think I remember saying Sixers Celtics, and it's kind of specifically for this reason, because there are going to be such interesting polar, not polar, but just juxtaposed cases going forward where you're banking on a transcendent. coach, if that's what you consider Red Sevens to be, or transcendent talent in Simmons and B. And that's just such an interesting difference in approach. And I think that's going to be fascinating. They're two sides of the same coin. What's impressed me a lot about the Sixers from a completely sincere standpoint is the, especially with this 12 game stretch, their ability to sort of not

be blown away by the moment. There's not like the, this isn't like, who can believe this? This is great. Like, we're so psyched. They're just like, yeah, like this is, we're playing for the playoffs. We're trying to win every game we play. And they have, according to 538, O'Hanlon just slight this to me, a one in five shot at going on the finals. I mean, it's a big moment for them, but I think they're playing within themselves. And on the flip side, this is going to be a test for the Celtics to kind of deal with a season where they had a lot of momentum in the beginning part of the season. They had a win streak. They had a lot of people talking about them as this is there to go to the finals. Could Gordon Hayward come back if they were going to make a deep

playoff run. And they're going to have to adjust to, okay, we're taking a step down for a second. You know, let's have a good showing in the postseason and let's get ready for next season. A couple other questions from social media. John Lucas Duffy wants to know if the Cavs don't make the finals, LeBron is a lock to leave Cleveland right. Maybe. I guess it depends on the other options on the board there. I mean, we were just what we were talking about the Lakers last night during the Spurs game. And there are times where the Lakers looks crappy. You give them LeBron and Paul George and all of a sudden that team could. be competitive in the West. But as we were just talking about, the East isn't going to be on the

same level as the West going forward. And if LeBron is just looking at the board there, like, yeah, maybe he can carve out a legacy by winning in the West, but he can keep racking up finals in the East. And I wonder if that means more to him. Yeah. I think he stays in the East, no matter what, for at least one more year. And that's probably means he'll just come back Cleveland. I think he's going to stay in Cleveland for a year. I wouldn't be surprised if he does another one-on-one. For everybody who's concerned about Bill Simmons, don't be. He's at Augusta. So, I mean, life's been pretty sweet. Okay, guys, we're going to end up live portion of our podcast,

but we'll be back in just a second to talk about the Western Conference seating, the Detroit Pistons, and the teams on their right of the lottery. Today's Ringer NBA show Group Chat is brought to you by the Google Assistant. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions on your phone, in your car, and around the house like this. Hey, Google, get directions to Major Domo Restaurant. The best way to get to Major Domo by cars is via Rural. Riverside Drive, and we'll take about 34 minutes in moderate traffic.

Download the Google Assistant today. All right, we're back. Group chat, Chris, Palo, Justin. And guys, you know, I don't want to belabor the Western Conference. This is a very important night. Thursday night for Western Conference. Playoff seedings because a couple of the teams that are, you know, there's a couple of teams that are right neck and neck.

Especially this Minnesota, Denver game is going to be huge in terms of whether or not, A, qualifying for the playoffs and B, seating. But I wanted to talk a little bit more about the vibe I'm getting from this Western conference, which beneath Portland, say beneath Utah, because I think Utah has, against all odds, and with Donovan Mitchell leading the team, really exceeded expectations. They were sort of a hipster pick, but they really have, like, they've really solidified and made themselves into a force. And the fact that they're in fourth right now is just unbelievable.

But beneath that, I don't think any of these teams can be, like, super happy with it. their seasons. Whether it's because of injuries or whether it's because they didn't quite live up to expectations, there's a feeling in the Western Conference, and maybe I'm wrong, of like the beneath the Utah teams, of we're clinging on, like we're hanging on to dear life here, rather than we're playing our best basketball going into the playoffs. Am I wrong? Am I being too dark? What are we even playing for? What are we even living for? No, for me personally, I found it pretty interesting just because like what else are we doing at this time of the year. Usually it's more about seating, whereas now there's really kind of a fight or flight thing going on where every game

has mattered over the past couple weeks. And this last week of the season is going to be more interesting than I can remember. I mean, the closest proxy is probably when the Pelicans won in 2015, they beat the Spurs in that last day of the season to make the playoffs. And we're kind of lining up for that same sort of thing. And on the plus side for the NBA, nobody's talking about tanking. And the tank race is absolutely putured this year. The tank race sucks. Some of these teams, and I noticed that, and we're going to get to some of these tanking teams in a bit,

but I realize that I have not watched Atlanta. I think I've watched Atlanta. I thought you're talking about the show for a second. No, the Hawks. Definitely watch the show. I've watched Atlanta, which is only six episodes in or five episodes in at this point, more than I watched the Hawks.

Oh, 100%. I'm sorry. It's true. I would do the same. So let's talk a little bit about the Thunder, especially. because I think that they're sort of representative of what I'm talking about here.

They're heading into the playoffs. They still have their positive point differential, which a lot of people have poked holes at because of some blowout wins here and there and a variety of other things. This team can never decide on who it wants to be. The Roberson injury really kind of sap them of like the, I think the most sincere momentum

that they had at any given point this season. And now they're entering into, you know, the most crucial part of their season, the postseason. And I feel like Mello and PG's, 13 are playing as poor as they've played all season. At least, Mello to me now, I think it's been weird being your friend and co-worker because you've really poisoned my brain about this guy.

But he's just a flat track bully. I mean, he has good games against bad teams, and he has bad games against good teams. That's pretty much the read. I'm just dropping truth bombs here. You are. No, I mean, I think with Mello, the entire story of his career is just like who he is versus, like,

who he perceive him to be. And that just, like, clash has always been something that hasn't like, like the math of it all hasn't worked in his favor. Paul George is the more concerning one to me, just because this is now a trend where late season swoon, Paul George has shown up again. Yes. And they need him because he is ostensibly like their best player,

if not their one beat. He's probably their best all-round player, but is, you know, he's talked about the mechanics of his shot being off, and he's shooting routinely below 40% from the field, and often at 25, at low 30s. Not to like ignore this as

you know, not a factor because it's not great that he's finishing the season up like this unless you're a Laker fan. But I think I'm still willing to just give him a break and wait for the playoffs for him to turn it on. And I think he's a type of player who, you know,

will turn it on in the playoffs and kind of has that vibe where he is built for more of that type of atmosphere. He did it last year. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I'm more worried about Mello,

I think, in that sense, because not just the fact, that he's been such a liability, both offense and defense. But like the narrative seems to be that he has already given up so much. Like what else does he have to give up anymore? And like, I'm like, he's still playing like 35 minutes a game. And he's not a factor against good teams. He just hurts them.

So I think I'm more worried about how that progresses into the playoffs, whether he plays fewer minutes or more minutes and what that does to the Thunder, who I think have now reverted back to just Russ and Stephen Adams pick and roll and having him score 40 points. I think I'm also concerned about, I just think that like that Golden State game was concerning. I mean, the one thing you could say about the thunder this year was that they at least had the reputation. I'm not sure if the record necessarily proves out this point, but they had big game hunter written on them. They looked like they had a problem getting it together for the mid-tier to lower tier teams.

But like when it came to the Cleveland's or the especially the Golden States and the Houston's, they were really feisty. but that losing 11-107 to Golden State on Tuesday and it was not as close as that. I didn't think. No, and to Powell's point, like we're seeing good Russ lately. Like the way he's been operating in the pick and roll with Adams has been fantastic.

If you watch that game they had on a Sunday evening just against the Raptors, like they couldn't stop Adams on the roll until Adams got hurt. And that's what I've been saying lately is just Adams kind of takes them to another level. And the other disappointment about them overall is just they're the only team amongst this riffraff fighting for four through nine or whatever it is,

four through eight. And they're the only one that could probably take it to another level. That's the only team. That's the only team that is like of the east where we're like, oh, it's a seven team race in the east. In the West, it's really a four team race with the Thunder being that fourth team. You know, and there are days in which I feel better about the Thunder than I do about the Blazers as a playoff team. And then there are days where I'm like, the Thunder might not get out of the first round. This seating is very interesting in the West, especially.

especially because practically nothing separates nine through four. You know, I mean, that could still switch in these last four or five games that we have left. But if I'm the Thunder, I really would like to get, I'd like to get that, I'd love to get that four or five seat if I'm the Thunder.

I'd like to, I think the Thunder would do fine against Utah. I think that that would be the kind of team that they could play against. San Antonio is so strange to me, especially just because there is still the X factor of Kauai, although if this season has told us anything, it's not to get your hopes up when it comes to injuries. I was watching them yesterday against the Lakers,

a game that they screwed up on and they let slide in overtime. And I was watching earlier in the game, and I was like, man, this is basketball at its purist. It was just like a bunch of scrappy dudes just running a system. There's a certain beauty to like the consummate underdog. There's like blog posts from 2013. 100%.

But then like as the game degenerated into more, just like crunch time closer mentality. Yeah, that's where they miss Kawhi. And it was like Dejante Murray trying to figure things out in the fly. And he's like this like sprightly little guy just like floating around the floor trying to figure things out. It was like, it was bad. And I think that's what they're up against.

I think that's a very good point in terms of the crunch time minutes because we saw so many times last year where Kawhi was, we, we called him Kobe at one point. It's just how he would take over Lake James. And I think now it's just who do you go to? Because Lamarcus is just, I don't, he's never really proven to be that guy. So I think it's just like a weird, really weird team. The Marcus Isos are the most confusing play on the court in 2018 because they take like 15 seconds to operate where he backs him down slowly

and then he still needs to do a turnaround jumper from like 15 feet. It's a weird vibe going with the Spursman. It's a really, it's a fine play to rely on for the first two and a half, three quarters, and then you get to the fourth quarter. You just, you really are counting on a lot of luck with like, not luck, but like just, well, Marcus turnarounds in the fourth quarter is not a recipe for postseason success. All right. Is there anybody, give me the team that you're most confident in from Utah down to the clippers here before we go? I would just say Utah. I mean, I think in terms of

them being able to secure the best seed and thus like the highest probability of moving on to the next round, it's going to be Utah. Although as I've been talking with Danny Chow about in the office, like we are a little bit concerned that they could do something in the playoffs, considering a lot of what they've done is based around defense and specifically Rudy Gobert, who who you might be able to take advantage of bring them out into the perimeter in a series. In a small ball situation. Yeah.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm willing to give the Timberwolves with Jimmy Butler, like my confidence, just because in terms of- This is another guy though. It's like, if not now, when? If not now, when are you coming back?

Right. If you're not ready now, or you, your team is essentially a game away from falling out of playoff contention. This is a team that they haven't, when's the last time they've been to the playoffs? Like, 14 years?

Yeah. Like, this is the year. Like, If Jimmy's not ready now, I don't know what the big, like, the big, oh, is that Jimmy Butler's music guy here? Like, moment is, right? Isotage. They're playing Denver tonight.

They need Jimmy Butler. Yeah. In a weird way, you know, Denver is probably the hottest team other than, you know, they've won three in a row. They're six and four in their last 10. They have a pretty decent point differential for a team that's a ninth. It's better than the Pelicans. But I do not trust this team as far as I can throw in a Cole Yoakich.

I think I'm just going to go with the thunder. I'm just going to go with the thunder because I, when in doubt, put your trusting guys who have been there before like Russ and PG. But that doesn't necessarily mean that I think that they're going to get past Portland or Utah in the first round.

The only thing I would add is just like, I want to see playoff Anthony Davis again. But having said that, they've been really shaky up until last night when they beat a Memphis team that has nothing to play for. Yeah. Also, don't count out the clippers just yet.

That's all I'm going to say. I don't know. You're not wearing an in-year monitor, so I don't know how Isaac told you that. We're going to take a really quick break to hear from our special. We'll be back to talk about some non-play-off teams. Today's episode of NBA group chat is brought to you by the Ringer merch.

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playoff contention last night by the Philadelphia 76ers and might be now I watched this game I was like this this team might be in one of the biggest jams in the league they've got themselves they've obviously given all this power to stand

but I feel like that power is sort of becoming undone or tell them it will probably move over to the basketball side of things if I had to guess. And I would imagine that Stan will be relieved of his GM duties, if not both his GM and coaching duties. They have, I think something like 74 million tied up with Blake Griffin, Reggie Jackson, and Andre Drummond. Wouldn't want any of those players.

84, if you bring in John lawyer, lawyer. John lawyer. John lure. He's the Joe Prunty of wingmen. I don't, you start. playing around with the trade machine. Oh, and by the way, they only keep their pick if it's one through four and they only have a 2.5% chance of getting in the top three of the lottery. Otherwise, it goes to the Clippers. Nice trade. So, the cavalry is not coming. They have no money

for free agents. And they have a lot of guys on way too much money for what they're giving them. And I don't even know what you can get for the top end of this roster. And nobody's showing up to watch them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And no one's showing. going up to watch them in their new stadium. It's as bleak as it can get because it's not even the type of team that... It's not like the Hawks where it's like, well, we can just, like, we'll just overpay for whatever

free agents around. Or we're just like content with this scrappy seven seed type of team and then like the fan base will get around it and they'll build an identity kind of like the Great Grine Grimmigris. Blake Griffin says it's a properly run organization though, so you have to give him that at least. He's loving it in Detroit.

He's probably just fun at a comedy store that he can go to and just bite his time. That's right. He's really working. his material in the suburban Dirk-Troix area. I don't know what to do here. You want to triandre Drummond for Harrison Barnes? Like knock yourself out. You want to, I can't find anyone who's like,

please let me get this antiquated, you know, no matter how offensively productive Andre Drummond is, I can't find a team that's like, oh, sure, we'd love to give up some assets for Andre Drummond. Blake Griffin is practically dead money at this point. I hope he has like some redemptive seasons. But can you, could you name a single team that would take him for anything.

And then Reggie Jackson is Reggie Jackson. I feel like you can find a Reggie Jackson on the end of the Celtics bench. I was thinking about it in the way that, you know, how do you, and I wonder where you guys think, what is the best team to try and build around Blake Griffin? There is no team. That's what I'm saying. It was the clippers and they traded him. Right.

But what I'm saying is it just shows again why I feel like the trade was the best team to put around him? What's the best team to put around him? Like, what does that look like? That's the question. Yeah, because it puts the piss and the, in a tough position of trying to answer that question while just a few months ago,

they were trying to do that same thing about building around Andre Drummond. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, now they have kind of have these two guys who... You have to hope that someone... I don't know who pushed for the Blake Griffin trade for the Pistons. I don't know if that was a Stan idea. And he was like, I need talent.

I want Blake Griffin. Or if that was a Gore's idea that was like, we need to get some butts in the seats in this place. We can't. Based on what Stan has done his entire GMing career, it was probably him. Because it's the type of short... sighted move where he doesn't see the big picture and how they relate to the

Blake Griffin trade obviously now the only way you could ever move on from him and his contract is so big that I don't even think someone like say Sarver would get seduced by oh you know in Phoenix we have this great med staff let's bring Blake Griffin in let's energize it let's bring Barclay in 20 years ago or whatever they did or more than that now and it's like what you nobody would nobody would go for that trade not even sarver would get seduced into getting Blake Griffin so they're screwed. They're screwed. They have to pray, basically,

to get into that top, top four unless otherwise it converts over to the clippers. But I want to talk a little bit about some of these other teams that are in the lottery, because if you don't want to be Detroit, who else do you want to be? I watched a little bit of Suns Kings. I somehow found myself being like,

oh, you know what? Sons have some guys. The sons have some guys. They have a bunch of guys. I mean, I still feel like there's a lot of Tyson-Channler happening, but I think there's a problem when you watch the Suns where you just see a lot of like the highlights only tell you what you want to see about Marquis Chris. But I was like, okay, there's a couple of things happening here. Josh Jackson's coming on in the end of season. You've been checking for him for a while, right?

Yeah. And I think if you look at their situations to say which one is better, it's probably the Suns because they have a few guys. I personally find them a little detestable because they're the type of tanking team that doesn't want to admit that they're tanking. Right. Like, they're the type of team that would probably like throw their nose up at the Sixers and Sam Hinky when they're doing the exact same thing, only worse, because they keep making bad trades. Having said that, they're just good at being like, we're in the market for Lamarcus Aldridge. Right.

Even though it's like, are you? Right. And they have Booker is a certifiable future All-Star. And I saw, I don't know how legit this is because I saw it on my like Instagram discovery page, but someone was like, DeAndre Aiton and Devin Booker, the new Kobe and Shack. And I was like, oh, man. Sidebar. Yeah.

Was there a little too much like, it's the year anniversary of Devin Booker scoring 70? did you know that? Yeah, did you see like on like a lot of sites it was just like, where were you when Devin Booker scored 70? This is a Kennedy assassination. I mean, somebody points it a lot. Yeah, I guess so.

But like it's really empty accomplishments to me honestly. I'm not saying it's warranted. I'm just trying to present a case. Okay, I just think we coronate these things a little too easily now. Sure. Yeah, so I think I feel the best about the Suns. Memphis is a mess.

Let's talk briefly about that ownership situation. Not good. Yeah. They've had this buy-sell option that has been looming for about a year. Can you explain what the buy-sell option is just for people say who don't understand what that is? Yeah, essentially, they're... Like me? They have a majority owner, but they're two minority owners.

There was a stipulation in the contract they originally signed where I believe it was before this season around October of this season, where they could opt into a clause that required para to either buy. out their shares of the team or it would set the price so that they could claim majority owners. So effectively it turns three owners into one. And we're getting to the point here where one needs to be decided upon

and that's going to have cascading effects on who they hire is their next coach, what direction they go into the future. Yeah, you almost forget that they fired David Fitzdale very early on the season. And now they have Bickerstaff who it seems like the prudent approach would be to find a young coach

to maybe take them and start fresh. But do you really, if you just paid an even heftier price for this franchise, are going to want to shell out more to pay other guys and Fisdale and hire a new coach? I mean, this is a whole other conversation, which is the amount of coach upheaval that we could see this season. You could see Detroit, Memphis, you could see Phoenix, you could see Milwaukee, Orlando, all these places having openings. It's say nothing at the fact that there might be a, you know what, we're moving on from Alvin Gentry. You know what?

We're moving on from, I mean, not Billy Donovan. but... Tilu's health status. Tileu's health status. I mean, Tibbs is not gonna go anywhere yet, but like that's still like, that doesn't seem like it's going great.

You know, I mean, there's a lot of openings that can be. Jay-Wright's going to get a lot of calls. Yeah, Tony Bennett's going to get a lot of calls. I'm sure there's a ton of assistance out there. You know, so of these teams, have you guys had a chance to watch any gris or hawks or magic recently?

Fuck no. The hawks are probably the most naked tank job I've seen in a really long. time. It's pretty, it's pretty, I almost respect it. I won't watch it. But it's, I was watching them the other night. It was like a lot of, like, is Wayne Seldon on the Hawks of the Gras? No, no, he's on the Grizzlies. Yeah. It kind of blurt once together. I was an expert of these guys now. There's like a lot of these 10-day contract guys. Like I wrote that Kentucky piece about, you know, the French, former Kentucky guys. And suddenly within, you know, a few weeks of that, Marcus T got picked up. All of them were on NBA.

The Grizzlies. Yeah. Aaron Harrison is on the Grizzlies. All these guys who are they're bringing. And I think somebody made a really interesting point, which is like if you're, if you're trying to tank, you don't bring in guys who are on 10-day contracts who are like, this is like they're fighting for their lives and are going to probably play. I mean, there still might not be that good. But, you know, it's an interesting thing to think about how the Grizzlies, because they beat the Blazers and they beat Pelicans or they beat another playoff team where it was like huge bad loss for the playoff team. and also just like a bad win for the grizzly. So, I mean, to bring it back to the Hawks,

I think I would still be, like, between the Sons and them, I think I might lean over to the Hawks a little bit. Well, because they have two guys who are promising in Tori and Prince and John Collins, who could be like the, maybe like the third or fourth best guys, guys on a team. Which how, how, what, where would you put Tori and Prince if he was on the Sons? I think Tori and Prince would be like the fourth or fifth best player on the Sons.

Maybe I don't know. I would say second or third. Yeah, I'm kind of into Toriardt's. I can't tell you, I didn't watch Tori Pryorice's year. I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just like, no, no, no, no, no. He just, he's, he's had a few moments scoring wise over the back end of the season. And also he's like the type of player you want where he's a three and D sort of guy.

Right. He's big for his position and so he could potentially slide down. He's better than T.J. Warren. Potentially, yes. Who, like, is from 1999. I'll have some coaching continuity, I guess. I mean, I think that, I think that. I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Okay. The clash here is just... If I'm bud and one of these bigger jobs opens up, let's see Tailu leaves Cleveland. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. You know, what about your bud?

You're on to sit around for five more years in Atlanta when you're not the president anymore? No. Or you want to go to Milwaukee and Coach Janus. It's fair. The clash with these guys, like this is not... Nobody wants to stay there. The Brett Brown thing is like a wild outlier.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Don't survive rebuilds. Yeah. I think the clash with a lot of these teams is just like who had the stomach to, tank fully.

Yeah. Like, whereas the Hawks have a clean slate that you can move forward with. Some of these teams are just compromised with some of the contracts they have in their books.

Orlando, Memphis. Yeah. And so when I look at these teams, I would not only look at that, but also market. Like, Phoenix has had some luck in the past procuring meetings with top level guys.

I think Lamarcus Aldridge and almost Blake Griffin. It's still a relatively desirable place to live and work. Sure. Atlanta and the same thing. Like, they don't draw well from a fan standpoint, but you could see guys if the right situation was there, if they had the potential to play for

the finals, like guys would want to go there. For that team, for the Corver 4 or 5 All-Star team or whatever it was. Sort of. It's a weird market there where it's just like there's not much of a fan base to draw from. All right. All right. So I think we're feeling probably

the best about Phoenix. Although Powell is sounding some hope for Atlanta. I will not be on next Thursday, so Justin will be your captain. But the playoffs are upon us. So expect a lot more group chat. probably getting it a little earlier in the day as well. We'll try to do some more live hits during the playoffs.

Until then, shout out to Isaac, Paolo, Justin. We're going. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.