The Ringer NBA Show - Lakers Go Up 2-0 on the Heat in NBA Finals, Plus: Doc Rivers to Philadelphia | The Mismatch

Episode Date: October 3, 2020

Verno and KOC convene after the Lakers beat the Heat in Game 2 of the NBA Finals to talk about this Lakers roster and whether the Heat have a chance at winning one game in the series (3:00). Then they get into Doc Rivers’ new challenge as the new head coach of the Philadelphia 76ers (32:10) and other head-coach shopping going on around the league (42:48). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to today's episode of the mismatch. Today, we are going to be talking about the Lakers taking a two-zero lead in the NBA finals over the Miami Heat, and then we are going to get to all the coaching news and rumors that have happened since we last spoke. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon, joining me as he does every, well, this week it's Saturday, because we are recording late Friday night after finals game number two is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O. Bomer. AKA Kevin O. Candyland.

A.kian. A.k.a. Kevin O. Clinician. We need to hit this. This morning, Friday morning, you were the name of the doctor that did the test for possible future president, Joe Biden. And I have been absolutely stunned over the course of the last couple of months.

You know, we always knew that one of the guys that ran the jazz was named Kevin O'Connor. Yes. But we have had a politician that supports marijuana in your home state. Oh, no, it's a Minnesota. There's two. Oh. There's Kevin O'Connor, who's a Republican running for Senate in Massachusetts. There's a Kevin O'Connor running from the legal marijuana now party in Minnesota.

So I am a, I am Joe Biden's doctor. I am running for Senate in two states at once. I used to run the jazz. I also do this podcast with you. So until this, until so many people knew who you were, did you ever realize how common

your name was? This has gotten ridiculous. It seems like every week, somebody is sending me something about another guy named Kevin O'Connor. It's honestly shocking. It feels like I'm in a simulation to be honest with you, but everything feels like that in the whole past year plus. The only time I've ever gotten to Chris Vernon one was, was a there's a general.

I think it's, I think it's in England. I think it's an English general. Or I believe that's true. General Christopher, oh yeah, Colonel Christopher Hillary Vernon is a British Army officer. In 2003, Colonel Vernon gained international attention as a senior spokesman for British land forces during the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Well, I guess you go. Colonel Vernon. Yeah. We got colonels, doctor, senators, the whole thing. Aren't we impressive? And then just me. Yeah, very impressive. All right.

So. Please vote for me in Minnesota. We talked. We have not spoken since before this series started. But we were very quickly. robbed of what a series could be. Because of Corrin Dragich going down in the first half of game number one, Jimmy Butler twisted his ankle,

bam out of Iowa's walking around like he's got one arm. And then by the time we got to tonight's game, game number two, everybody knew that the heat were really going to be up against it, against the Los Angeles Lakers. And they were to that point. I thought that offensively that he played extremely well, but they had absolutely, look, they did not have the requisite fight on the defensive end. But beyond that, even the moments that they did, even when they got the stop, it is beyond demoralizing to not be able to get the ball. and you could just see that the lack of size and rebounding out of the zone was going to, was a bridge too far.

I mean, like even when they, even when you work hard, you rotate, you get the miss. If you can't get the ball back, right? Now, now you're really up against it. At one point, I believe there was like three minutes left in the third quarter. And forgive me, because I cannot remember who tweeted it, but I saw it come across the timeline. It said something to the effect of the heat's offensive rating at that point was like 125, which is a ridiculous number, which is great, except for the Lakers offensive rating at that point was 147. I don't know what it ended up for the game for both of these, but the Lakers got great Anthony Davis and the heat, though they did fight, in this game and certainly I thought played very well offensively.

They didn't have enough and it appears if they don't get those guys, they're just not going to have enough. Oh, yeah. I mean, that was the disappointing about the disappointing thing about, you know, BAM and Gorin Dragich being out in this series. They don't have a shot without those two guys. And we did see Miami play hard,

you know, they rotated well on defense. They're communicating. They were passing the ball well on offense. 29 assists only nine turnovers, you know, kudos to them for that fighting hard in a game where they were down two of their best players. With all that said, you know, Anthony Davis and LeBron James tonight showed why they're two of the greatest players in the game. And LeBron, why he's one of the greatest players ever, 80, why he's on trajectory to become that one of those players as well. 80 tonight just too big, too fast, too fluid, too smart, too skilled, regardless of the defense that he was facing from the heat.

and LeBron James just masterfully picked apart that heat zone. Whether the Lakers put him at the baseline or put him in the middle of the zone around the free throw line, he just shredded that defense. And he had a historic knight himself with 33 points, nine assists, and zero turnovers. He's the first guy in NBA finals history since Magic Johnson, who's had at least 20 points and nine assists with zero turnovers in a final. game, not just the first since then, they're the only two to ever do it. Just LeBron and Magic Johnson.

So, you know, during the night, a lot of talk about AD as potential finals MVP, and you know, that talk will continue throughout the next couple of games. But LeBron James himself, 35 years old, age 17, had himself a remarkable performance to give the Lakers that age that they needed when the heat were playing quite well. Yeah. And what was crazy is I think if you're the heat, you probably go into it and you're thinking, hey, if they shoot 27-3s in the first half, we'll take that.

You know what I mean? Like, I mean, given the alternative, right? Considering they were so small, it's like, okay, like, at least then we got a chance at at long rebounds. But they hit, you know, 30-something percent of them in that first half. And it was enough to just keep on loosening them up. And Rondo has, like, it's just real. It's just real at this point.

The three-point shooting is just real, right? I mean, like, it's real to an extent. Like, we've talked about this before. He's shooting 37% on catch-and-shoot-3s ever since he was traded from Boston five years ago. So it's not like he's a knockdown guy, but he hasn't been a total liability over the last half decade.

I mean, teams leave him open. He doesn't shoot a lot of shots, but at least he makes those attempts at a respectable enough rate to, you know, where it's not Andre Robertson's sub 30%. This isn't, he's not bricking everything. And he's on a hot streak now, whether that's due to the J-Kid aspect that you've hit on a couple weeks ago, him helping him out. Did you notice?

I told you that Tony Allen told me a couple weeks ago who loves Rondo and they're still friends to this day. He said, he said, you watch him, he doesn't jump. And he said, you know what? The last couple years of my career, I shouldn't have jumped either. You end up spending so much energy And it's the old Jason kid You know

Just don't expend a lot of energy You know, you ain't got to jump that high Right? And you see it He's barely getting off the deck When he shoots that thing And by the way He does make it

There's guys around the league You know, the one who comes to mind Number one I don't want to get into a side rant here Between us But Russell Westbrook is one of those guys Who jumps so high on his shots That's right But he's a historic

Until recently the last couple of years He's been a really good free throw shooter throughout his entire career. And it's not like he has bad touch around the rim. I would love to see somebody like Westbrook, one of many guys. He's the highest profile name that comes to mind. Just not jump as high on your jumper. More can go wrong mechanically when you're jumping so high.

And sometimes you shoot on the way down or sometimes your legs are flailing out. A nice, relaxed shot is oftentimes enough. And Rondo is really doing that well in the bubble. Consistent mechanics. and, you know, plus 40% is probably unsustainable, but it's not far off from his 37% over the last five years. Yep, I saw it. And it is as guys go on, right?

It's almost like they have to lose that mega athleticism in order to get to that point. But we saw Vince Carter play an extra like six or seven years in the NBA. And he was a three-point threat, you know, as an older. guy in the league. He ended up playing, you know, over 20 seasons in the NBA. And there was nobody bouncier than him in the history of the NBA. And there he was standing, taking threes, you know. So, I mean, I do think there is, there is something to that. That being said, you know, I feel like you and I and all NBA fans have been insanely blessed with the way this whole bubble thing has gone. Obviously, everybody being COVID free. But beyond that, we just

We're constantly talking about amazing basketball games. Just over and over again, every single round. We were just talking about great competition, even in the series that ended up being dominated series, like the Lakers winning for one. It wasn't like we were without drama in the Denver series or the Houston series. We didn't see many games that were a lack of competition. And I hate that. on the biggest of the stages when, you know, maybe a lot of hardcore fans,

you know, people that aren't hardcore fans will flip on for the finals that we don't get competition for this because while this whole exercise in Orlando has been fantastic, and I think the basketball has been amazing, you know, the people, Lakers fans are going to be happy no matter what. But I'm talking about for everybody else that is a fan of competition and is a fan of good basketball, you want both teams to have a chance at winning the thing. And this is increasingly feeling like one of the teams has very little chance of winning the thing. I mean, Mark Spears tweeted tonight how Eudanus Hazam lit into the team at one point.

And, you know, I believe the ESPN ABC broadcast showed Haslam yelling on the sidelines at one point. If Bam Anabio and Gorin Drogich were playing, maybe that, maybe that would be inspiring to the team. team, and I'm sure it was inspiring, but it doesn't matter how inspired you are when you're missing those two guys and you're going against Anthony Davis and LeBron James and this roster that fits so well together. There's just, you can, you can be the most inspired anybody's ever been in world history. And it won't matter. You're just not talented enough without those guys. And for us, you know, obviously you're a Grizzlies fan, but like watching this game, like not rooting for anybody in particular, it's a shame that a casual viewer isn't

getting that experience. And, you know, overall, though, like, I still think, you know, a fan can watch this game. I enjoyed watching tonight's game. Yeah, it was fine. We saw, we saw greatness from LeBron James and Anthony Davis. We saw, you know, Rajan Rondo be playoff Rondo. We saw Khruso make winning play after winning play. We saw Dwight Howard in that first quarter bring energy and rebounding, rejuvenated with this Lakers team after for years, you know, he looked like he was on his way out. There are many teams that wouldn't have signed him. And there's still, you know, fun storylines to watch. But at the end of the day, it's unfortunate that we're not getting classic NBA finals games. And there's nothing better than that when you have a deep six or seven

game series that's competitive wire to wire every single night. And, you know, it's unfortunate. But, you know, it's a can we've been dealt to finish this, this incredible bubble run? Let me say this. The final score is 124 to 114. And you saw offensively, how fantastic the heat were tonight, but it's still not be enough, right? And I've been getting beat up ever since the first half of game one because like, oh, yeah, where's all this heat depth? Well, I hope you saw it tonight.

I hope you saw it because, right, there's not, there's very few teams in the league that could even, even lose by 10 when they lost their two best plus minus guys on the entire team. I don't care what team you're talking about. Take the two guys that have numerically, analytically been most important to the team. Like, they have lost without Goran Dragich on the court. This is a team that was, what, 10 and 3 in the playoffs or something like that?

No, I guess it would be more than that. But they only lost three games in the playoffs, and they wiped out Milwaukee after they had wiped out Indiana, and then they beat Boston in six. So they lost three games total, yet they were like plus 76 with Dragage on the court, and they had a negative rating with him off the court. So, I mean, like they weren't a winning team without Dragage on, you know, playing for them. And so now they have to, you know, they're playing. It's Kelly Olinic and it's Kendrick Nunn and whatever.

And, you know, I feel bad. I feel awful for me. most importantly, Miami, right? You fight all year. You play so great. You get everything together. Now's your crack at it. And you lose your two guys.

I also, I also do feel bad. The Laker, there's going to be a segment of Laker fans that don't care. But the same ones, they all said the same thing when it happened, which is, I don't want this.

I want to beat them full strength. I want to bury that. You know what I mean? Because it happens, though. I mean, it happens. Like Raptors fans don't care last year that Warriors players were out. It happens.

It's part of the game. Unfortunately, guys get hurt. It's just the reality of the sport. And, you know, if there's a Lakers fan out there who feels like there shouldn't be as happy

because heat players went out, I mean, it happens, man. Not as happy, but they would want to see the best competition too. Yeah, you want to see the best competition.

But ultimately, when the Lakers come back next season and they're coming off of finals and you're trying to go for two in a row, it doesn't matter at that point. You're trying to build a dynasty. That's what you're thinking if you're a Lakers fan. Like, win another one, win another one.

That's right. That's what LeBron and AD and all these guys are going to want to come back and try to do. And I don't think we're jumping ahead here saying that. It's a 2-0 lead when two of Miami's best players are out. And if they were to come back, Drudgeard's would be in serious pain with the injury he has. And who knows about BAM's condition exactly and how much he'd be able to handle the load against AD. It's just highly improbable that Miami would be able to fight back in this series. Well, and I thought that was ridiculous.

The whole, it was reported that he tore his planter fascia in game one. And then immediately right after that, and I don't know if that's just Miami trying to get that word out or whatever. It's like, but he has not been ruled out for the series. And I'm like, is he going to get a new foot? Like, that's a serious injury. I mean, you can get shot up. You can. Bobby Marks tweeted about that.

he said Joe Johnson suffered a torn plantar flashed in his foot during game two of the 2013 first round versus Chicago. Johnson would go on to receive an injection in this foot before each game. But he would struggle to shoot 26% from three and 42% from the field, two of 14 from the field and a game seven loss. So Joe Johnson really struggled playing through pain. And I'm sure, you know, if Dr. Jock were to return in game three, he'd be feeling that same type of pain too. Here's what I'd say. the difference is Joe Johnson made over $200 million in his career, right? And I do not believe was it a contract year when that took place.

Drag it's just played great this year. He's probably getting one more deal, right? He's 34 years old. He's probably getting one more deal. And he's a free agent coming up. And could be a pretty good deal for him too. Yeah. And maybe he has an awareness of Kevin McHale and other great players that play

on broken foot and now they can't walk right for the rest of their lives. You don't care in the moment, though. If you're a player, you're a game or you're a competitor. You don't care in the moment. That's why the team doctors need to protect the players. Well, no. And that's what I'm saying.

Like you may, you may sit there saying, in some cases, these kids have been playing since they're five, six years old. Say, I've played my whole life to get to this moment. I will do anything it takes to get out on that court, right? I mean, once upon a time, when you watch Kevin McHale limp around everywhere, once upon a time, he said, right? This is what I pay for to get to this moment. There's nothing that's going to stop me.

And he shouldn't have done it, clearly, in retrospect, right? If you know it's going to be 40 years of you limping around, you'd rather be able to not limp around. But in that moment, as you say, but for druggage, when you don't have a contract next year, right? God forbid you go out there and screw the thing up worse. Or suffer another injury, you know, as a result of your. your leg being weaker, your foot being weaker. I mean, it can happen.

Yeah. And for him, it's the type of thing where the best thing to do is probably to set out. And that's sad. You know, it's sad. We talked about it from a fan perspective. It's sad for these guys that their whole lives, they've, you know, fought to play at the highest level and get a chance to compete for championships. And, you know, you get there.

And then that happens in game one. It's unfortunate. The way it happened, it looks like it was a fluky injury. And, you know, Eric Spolstra said after the game, he doesn't care. if people say that he can't come back. He doesn't care what people think. But the fact is, man, is I don't see a path for Miami to win the series or even get back into the series.

I went from saying Lakers in six to I would say Lakers in four. I said that after game one. I just don't see a way from Miami to win unless like they shoot like 60% from three, like a super hot shooting night. You know what I mean? And take a million of them. Yeah. And it was, didn't you think that was going to be what they did tonight?

If there was one of these two teams and you told me, hey, they're going to shoot 27 threes in the first half and break a finals record. Yeah. I mean, I would have, there's no amount of money. I wouldn't have bet that that was the heat that did that. It was the Lakers. With the most threes and finals history. And I will say this, we had the discussion on Tuesday. And I kept saying, you know, about the, who's the Lakers third guy?

The truth is, the third guy is Ron, though. It is. It is. He's the third guy. And it's been that way. He has become that. I mean, it's 26 minutes. It's 16 points.

It's 10 assists. It's four rebounds. He's just like. Only one turnover. I mentioned earlier. LeBron with the historic night with nine assists zero turnovers. Rondo wasn't far off. 10 assist one turnover.

Again, he made some sensational passes. Pick in a park that Miami's own and Miami man defense for that matter, too. I, it's unfathomable. I can't get over it. It's unfathomable. Dude, he, let's just be straight up. He stunk the last two years.

And that's why Lakers fans hated him. Laker Film Room on Twitter, one of the guys I respect the most in all of NBA media. I think he is one of the best out there breaking down the game in a way that's digestible. And he is so smart. And Pete's awesome. That's Laker Film Room on Twitter. And he is somebody who has bashed Rondo over and over and over for years. Why does Frank Vogel play him?

what is the deal here there's better guys in the bench what what's going on and everybody felt that because it was right to feel that he struggled but then for him that guy to turn into this where he is clearly the third most important player on that team it's truly unfathomable i i can't listen and this is the look you know i caught the brunt of this the second i picked the heat to win i and i and i started have beaten up their supporting roster. It is really like Bizarro world because then I caught the brunt of it, which was Laker fans trashing me for like, it's almost like when you talk about somebody's family, it's like we can talk about them, but you can't.

Like, bro, it's not like they've been praising Danny Green and Kyle Kuzma and Dwight Howard. Like they have been frustrated with all these guys, including the guy who's been the best, Rondo. The only one that I've gathered, they've loved unconditionally. Caruso. Caruso. That's it. And rightfully so. They hated all of them at some point.

At some point, right? They're trying to shoot Danny Green to the moon, you know, at one point. Danny Green, one for eight tonight from three, still can't find a shot. It looks like he's either not wearing his contacts or he's hurt. One of the other or both possibly. Yeah, Caldwell Pope. They want to shoot him to the moon. It's like all of a sudden, then the second you say, you don't like the supporting

cast, it's like, hold on, hold on. These guys are awesome. I mean like, oh, now, come on. Like, look, and somehow it was conveniently missed that at the very beginning of that, I reiterated to you a thousand times, it might just be that those two guys are just too awesome. I don't know how many times I said that. Like, and I'm sorry, I still don't love the supporting cast. Those guys are that awesome.

They are, it doesn't matter. They could have me, you and Sasha out there with them and we'd have a chance. That's not true. I don't think that's true. Oh, stop. None of these guys would get $10 million at free agency. You know that. You and many other people act like LeBron has his 07 calves out there with Boobie Gibson

and Big Z, you know, near the end of his career. This is not that. Don't slander Big Z. I love Big Z. I'm just saying near the end, he was not the same guy with all the injuries that piled up. I love Big Z. Great player in his prime. Well, that team, the team also got, they also didn't have Anthony Davis on the team.

I know. All I'm saying, though, is like the Lakers piece is fit. This is what we talked about. It is like LeBron James and Anthony Davis and the 07 calves. That's what it's like. Put Anthony Davis on that team, Kevin, see how it looks. But there was no Caruso on those gases. That was no Alex Caruso on those 07 camps.

I knew that I was going to get you going. I threw you in alley you. You delivered. Enough already. Enough. Enough. That's the point. I knew you were taking it there.

No, this is what I'm doing. It's not fair to say people compare this to the 07 Cavs roster. Like, okay, let's act like Anthony Davis is on the 07 Cavs roster. That's a radically different roster of which you have much higher opinion of everyone else. That's what I would tell you. All I'm saying is that Larry Hughes is all of a sudden contavius Caldwell Pope. Look, you know. This is.

is not me, you know, patting myself on the back. Sort of it's going to come off like it is. Whatever. Last year before the season started, around this time last year, I wrote my preseason power rankings. I had picked the Lakers to win the finals and in the blurb in the article. I was like, why are people saying their depth is such trash? These pieces, you know, they fit what LeBron historically needs around him.

Not to mention it's LeBron and AD. Those two guys are two of the best players in the league. I don't, I don't, I'm not letting you. I'm not letting you do this. No, but I just, I just want to say it. Because you think you thought,

because that was, you wrote that under the guys that Rondo sucks. And he's like the third. And I was wrong about that. I was wrong about that. But I'm saying like, he's the biggest part of that support. I'm talking about like,

I'm talking about guys like Dwight Howard and Javille McGee that played a lot this year. I'm talking about KCP, Avery Bradley, who had some good times of the Lakers. I love Ever Bradley. Lesser role has been able to have some of those, you know, higher scoring games.

It was about some of, some of those guys and about the potential of them adding somebody like they did with more. So it's like with the Lakers, it's, I never thought their depth was bad. And I don't think it's great by any means. But I think the collective, you can't just look at the individual player names when analyzing a team. It's about the collective and the way guys fit together as pieces. And I think individually, you have LeBron and AD, you can have anybody around them. Yeah, I don't think that's totally true, though.

You can't have anybody. guys have to play smart basketball. They're going to be reliable. They're going to make quick decisions. They're going to be able to hit shots at at least an average rate. And these guys check those boxes for the most part, especially on defense. Because your defense is really only as good as the weakest player that's out there. And oftentimes, Vogel is able to put out lineups that don't have a weak link.

And that's because of the role players who are able to help elevate LeBron and AD and allow them to shine. So it's not just those two. It's everybody else in the way the pieces fit together is a whole big championship puzzle. We got to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk about what could happen the rest of the series. And if we're just going to see two more games,

we'll do that after these words. All right, Kevin. So what are our chances that we even get a game five in this series? If the heat get bam out of bio back, if you get a bam out of bio, we could at least give them a very slim chance of winning a game in the series. But we certainly do not think too, right? I mean, I think the drag injury is an absolute killer for them.

And I thought you and Logan and Raja did a very good job explaining this the other night when you were talking about it's not as simple as, yes, the box score numbers are very good. it is the shot creation and how he gets that entire offense in motion. Now, in fairness, gets clicking with him. Their offense was not the problem tonight, honestly. Like, I mean, they did. I was very impressed, and I think that's a credit to Eric's bolstra. Yeah. Because their offense was pretty good.

In the second half, though, I do think the Lakers let up a little bit. Of course they did. They got their 20-point lead and they kind of let up on defense. Yeah, they did it against Denver. They did it against Houston. First half, Lakers gave them. great effort, I thought. How many frigging Laker games have we had to record after that we were like, all right,

let's, we can start recording in a minute. And then next thing we know, they're dicking around for 20 minutes. I'm really starting to resent this team. Like, bro, just blow somebody out so I could go to bed. Can you just put your foot on somebody's neck and bury them? Burdance. Burdance is calling me. I'm ready to play war zone.

Oh, is that right? Well, I tell you this. It's a fictional play. for you playing the game. They are, they are up big in these games. They did it against Houston. They did against Denver.

And then they did it against Miami tonight where you like look up and you're like, why is this score? Why is this a 10 point game? You know what? When you build leads, you're able to do that. What is going on here? If they get Bam out of bio back and like you said,

they played, you could see them playing one great game. I mean, look, game one was a horrendous. representative of what Miami was. I mean, even with the injuries, you know the Lakers has absolutely mulled them. And I think anybody that fairly and objectively watch the heat, play against Milwaukee,

play against Boston, watch that Miami team. And yes, some of it, a lot of it is because the Lakers played so well also. But it was the combination of the Lakers playing extremely well. and the heat playing horribly in that game. I mean, they were miserable. And the first thing that Eric's bolster said after the game was, we are so much better than that. I believe that was his first quote to the media.

We are so much better than that. And they are. They are better than what they showed in game one. You watch tonight and it's hard. You know, I'd like to say, hey, they could be way better defensively. And obviously if they get Bamback, they could be better, certainly defensively. I don't know how much better offensively they can be than they were tonight, given their construct. And so that's why I say they get Bam back.

They could win a game, you know. Yeah, they could win a game. I mean, like I said, you've got to have a really hot shooting night. And even though you look at the- It sucks. It really does. It sucks because this could be fun. You thought it was going, you picked the Lakers.

You thought it was going six. I pick six. You know what I'm saying? So I think everybody thought that this is not going to be a wipeout series. And now we're trying to figure out if a lot of people, a lot of people pick the heat. A lot of people. Oh, yeah?

Yeah, you build. I mean, a lot of people at ESPN, a ton of people. So, like, that's, I'm not saying that anybody was wrong. I'm saying, like, it just speaks to how people broke down this series and how much of a competitor Miami was when this team was healthy. And it's just unfortunate we're not getting that. it really does suck for a casual fan for obviously lakers fans who cares you're raising banner 17 yeah right you know it's special and it's the first i would say of multiple for lebron and

anthony davis in their time together with the lakers and you know it could be the start of a special run who cares if you're a lakers fan but for everybody else it's too bad miami is not healthy yeah and so i guess that's what we're hoping for we're hoping for maybe an extra game Yeah. You know what I mean? A gentleman sweep. Lakers went five in the first, second, and third round. Yeah. Who says they won't go five again? Oh, they very, they very well.

They have good manners. They have good manners with the gentleman's sweep. They're not trying to embarrass anybody. They're not trying to embarrass anybody. All right. There was big coaching news. And we've got to talk about Doc Rivers, who we had talked about on Tuesday, losing his job with the Clippers.

And by the time we record this on Friday night, He's already got a job. And we'll talk about the other, and we'll talk about the other rumors that are out there right now. We'll do that right after these words. All right, Kevin, Doc Rivers,

as I mentioned, on Tuesday, we discussed his leaving, fired, parting of ways, whatever you want to call it, with the Los Angeles Clippers. We now are recording on Friday night,

and we know that Doc Rivers is going to be the next head coach of the Philadelphia 76ers. So that took three days to find a job. And I thought it was interesting. I heard, I think it was Bill's podcast with Jackie McMullen earlier in the week. And they were talking about, and I had not thought about this, but he mentioned that people had reached out to him and that a few different people had mentioned, Doc has to be in our league, that he is such an important voice right now as like an elder statesman, as an African-American. coach that he's a very important figure in the league. And I think that's why you saw immediately, I mean, I don't know if Doc was going to have his pick of every job, but it was probably going to be a long shot for him to not get a job.

Now he takes on what is a real challenge because Doc Rivers is challenged with getting that thing to work in Philadelphia with Ben Simmons and Joel Embed. I do think it's worth noting, and I heard Adrian Worgianowski talking about this on Support Center. Tobias Harris did experience the best basketball of his career while he was playing for Doc Rivers in L.A. So if that is one, they spent a fortune on the guy. And he, I mean, he's averaging over 20 points a game, I think 50% from the field. I mean, his L.A. numbers were great under Doc, Tobias Harris. And so he certainly knows how to get the most out of him. him, which is great considering how much they spent on that guy and getting the most out of him

would be helpful. But you got the whole Simmons Embed thing, too. What do you think? What do you think about Doc in that situation? So number one, I mean, yeah, Doc is an important figure. And I'm happy to see him get another opportunity. He is a good coach. You know, we talk about some of the negatives recently with the blown 3-1 leads.

He's also coached teams that have never been swept. And, you know, a lot of those teams are favorites. not just, you know, it's also some of the early Orlando teams and, you know, some of the Boston teams that were older. And the Clippers teams for that matter. So Doc is a good coach who's just had some really tough series, especially recently with the Clippers. And, you know, for the Sixers, I think Doc is, it's going to be interesting to see what he does. Because you mentioned Tobias Harris.

He had the best basketball of his career. Yes, playing for Doc, but also playing the most fourth. of his entire career. He's back to playing a lot of three with the Sixers because of the size of that roster. So he's not going against maybe as many slow-footed defenders. He might be defending, in fact, a quicker guy that would typically be used on a go-to score from the perimeter because he sort of has been that for the Sixers in some ways, because Ben is a little bit of a different type of player in the half-court.

And in Abed's obviously an interior guy. So with Doc, the same questions that were there with Brett Brown are going to be there with Doc Rivers, how do you make the offense click and how can you make this defense better as well? I mean, they should have been better this season. And to me, like, it is with Philly, it is not as much about the coach as it is, is about the personnel and the decisions Elton Brand makes with this roster. Whether it's a big trade, you know, I've, I've hit on the Chris Paul idea for the Sixers and the Bucks.

I'm not sure how Chris Paul Doc Rivers, you know, reunion would go. But I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued still of a guy like him. But to me, it's about personnel more than the current roster. Because I don't think this is the roster we're going to see on opening day in 2021 for the Sixers. So I have a hard time assessing what will Doc do without knowing what will Elton Brand do. I agree with you. And I think that he, the benefit of Doc and a veteran coach going into that situation,

especially that's coached for so many different teams is twofold. Number one, he has dealt with all manner of personalities in his time as a coach. He dealt with them very strong personalities in Boston. You know, when you've got a locker room that has Ray John Rondo and Paul Pierce and Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, and then you've got a locker room that's got Chris Paul and Blake Griffin and D'Andre Jordan and also Eric Blentzo and Matt Barnes and that. And then you fast forward to this where he's got two new superstars and trying to get that to all work. You take last year, which was kind of a grinded out team with Danilo Gallinari and Gildes Alexander, that group. And so he's worked with all manner from the grinder type players to the superstar type players.

And it is a thing. You're not going to find anybody that goes out and speaks poorly or badly of Doc Rivers, right? and managing personalities, getting guys to play together and play hard. Yes, I understand the failings that have gotten in the playoffs, and we covered this on Tuesday. But he is, I think, I think there's a real benefit to that, that he's dealt with all manner of personalities because that's not the perfect fit. Basketball or personality-wise, I think we understand that now, right?

Secondly, the amount of institutional knowledge he has about team building and what they will need, right? Like, I do think that that was the demerit of Brett Brown having to be there the entire time and kind of overseeing the process and taking all those losses. And he was, that's his first go round. That's the only place he's been a head coach. Whereas when Doc Rivers comes in, he walks into that meeting. He is paid attention to. I'm not saying he should have personnel decisions. But I'm also saying, despite what you think about him as a personnel guy, it's not going to be any worse than freaking Elton Brand.

Elton Brands made horrendous decisions. And Doc may actually figure out how to make that thing work basketball-wise, too. And by the way, like, it's not just Elton Brand. And from my understanding, like, the Sixers front office is very collaborative with a lot of voices that have a say in decisions. Including their owner probably. Yeah, I'm sure, to an extent for sure. And the last week or so, my understanding is, you know, Sixers' ownership was super into Mike Dantonie. The front office was a little bit like, let's take our time here, you know, look at Ty Lou and see what becomes available.

And then Doc, obviously, boom, there he is. And rightfully, you know, from my perspective here, because of that wealth of experience with, you know, superstars that maybe didn't fit perfectly, how do you maximize that? He did that with the Celtics Big Three with KG, Paul Pearson, Ray. And the question entering that run in 07 when they traded for those guys was how will they fit together? Doc, you know, from personality management and in terms of coaching and play calling, helped design an offense that did allow those guys to fit. He did it with the Clippers with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan and Chris Paul. They obviously failed to reach what they should have in the postseason, but they made it work at a successful level with two bigs and with a point car that handles a ball a lot.

And then he did it, you know, with the Young Clippers team. He did it with this year's Clippers team to an extent. And I think that's why if you're a Sixers fan, you're like, this is nice, but it's never been enough except for that one year with the Celtics. And that's where, you know, it's not assigning that like I'd be like doing jumping jacks over, you know, you didn't just hire Greg Popovich away from the Spurs. You didn't bring Red Hour back from the dead. You didn't do that.

You got a really good coach. I'm not sure he's a great coach. and it's a nice hire and I think he's the right man for the job and he is absolutely one of the 30 best coaches in the world and deserves a chance. But he hasn't been able to take

some of these tough fits to the next level. And again, that's why to me it gets back to personnel because with those Celtics teams, it worked because Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and Kevin Garnett made it work. Those guys sacrificed from the jump and Docs deserve some credit

for that too, but you've got to have the right players around each other to win a championship. And that's not in Doc Rivers' control with the Sixers. I'm sure he'll have some power in what he says. But it's ultimately that the Sixers, if they win a championship this decade, it's going to be because of the personnel decisions that they are made to maximize what they have or what they could have by flipping one of those two stars in the future. And it's not going to be as much about whether it was, you know, Pratt Brown, Doc

Rivers or Mike DeAnne. Those guys can elevate his coaches and we'll see what happens there. But it's about the roster number one. It's also going to be fascinating to see because, you know, instead of hiring somebody without experience, like he is, it is the, again, we've covered the failings and blowing the leads. He's also been in the position to have those leads too, right? You know what I'm saying?

Like there's something to be said of that rather than just getting wiped out. Tom Haberstro wrote about that on NBC Sports. Yeah. It's a really nice article about that. There's a bunch of, there's also, there is a, you know, you got to be good enough to be able to be in that position to get those leads. A lot of good coaches in the East. I mean, you're going, Budenholzer, Spolstra, Brad Stevens. Let's say the Knicks get it going.

I'm a Tibido fan. We'll see what Steve Nash does with Brooklyn. Up and down the line. They're talking about Dave Yeager in Indiana. I mean, there's, you're going to be, you're going to be up against a good coach no matter what when it comes playoff time. because the East has become pretty strong in terms of tacticians and coaches that everybody has great respect for. And so you're up against that. And it's like, I don't know, if you walk in there with Doc Rivers, maybe you don't necessarily feel you've got an advantage on the sideline.

But you also don't feel like you got a big disadvantage either. You know what I'm saying? That's why I said with the Clippers, they got a greater chance of doing worse than they have of doing better. but they can do better. They can. You know what I mean? They can do better. Sure.

But there's there's more, there's more chances of doing worse than Doc Rivers that there are of doing better than Doc Rivers. And that leads us to that. Have you heard anything on their job and what's going to happen? And are they going to shock us somehow? So, so from my understanding, this is what I heard from one source who told me like, this source even said to me, like, it's so early. We don't know entirely, but from a couple conversations I had after that, it sounds like the clippers are going to take their time here,

and they are going to at least try to swing big. And people around the league think they're going to try to go after Coach K. Would they get him? Probably not. I mean, I don't expect Coach K to be leaving Duke, but, like, they are thinking big is the point. So, like, if you hear me say that, don't think going after Coach K, hear that and think they're thinking big with what they want to do.

You get what I'm saying? I think I want to stress that if anybody hears that. If people around the league might be hearing about Coach Katie or Clippers, it shouldn't be like that means like he's going to go there or anything. Like chill out. It's just about their mindset is they want to hit a grand slam. Will they? I don't know.

Who knows? But at least you hope to hit a grand slam. But then again, Chris, who doesn't hope to hit a grand slam with the coach they hire? There is, I'll tell you this, there is no salary cap when it comes to the coaches. So Steve Bowmer's the kind of dude that you could see like saying, I don't care. Whatever the number is. I'll pay you $15 million a year. Be the head coach of my team.

You know what I'm saying? And then at some point, you know, if you really, like, if you decide like, that's my guy, you make somebody turn down $10 million a year. Exactly. He's saying, I'm going to pay you like your freaking Nick Sabin. No, it's, dude, you're right. And that's why, like, I say that, like, who doesn't hope to hit a Grand Slam, but not many teams have the bases loaded. The Clippers have two All-Stars on their team, a championship caliber team in Los Angeles, you know, trying to take down the Lakers after they win a championship.

There's a lot of reasons to want to go play or coach for the Clippers right now. You follow me here. If they were hiring a Thai Liu, they'd have hired Ty Lou, right? I think so. I think they would have done that by now. I mean, if they were hiring. I think they would have. Why would they not?

You know what I'm saying? Like it took Doc Rivers three friggin' days. Yeah. You would scoop him up and you would say, all right. Yep. We're going to like it feels like they're doing Tailu a solid. That's how I perceive it. Yeah.

Like they're doing him a solid. Like, you know, keep his name out there. And it's like, hey, man, we're going to make sure you land on your feet too. You want to do your due diligence still. You still want to see if there's that grand slam available, even if it's not. In all likelihood, it's not. But you've got to try for that type of stuff. You got to look around and see coaches who might have only a year or two left in their contract,

like a Quinn Snyder with the jazz, he signed a contract until 2021. Like, coaches in that realm, like, maybe you go for, you know, go for one of those guys. Maybe a team's willing to trade that coach for a second round pick or a first, not that the Clippers have first rounders to trade. You know, for a second or a young player. It's all we got. For Landry Shannon, maybe. We'll give you Paul George.

We'll give you Paul George for your coach. Nick Nurse for Paul George, who says no? Who says no? Nick Nurse for Paul George. Right? You could reunite nurse with Kauai. Who says no? Who says no, Kev?

Nick Nurse for Paul George. Oh, my goodness. Before I offer that, I'm trying to offer Coach K-25 million. Oh, okay. All right, we can try that. And then we mentioned the Yeager one. That's the hot name that's come around with Indiana. Obviously, I've known Dave Yeager since he was in his early 20s.

Dave is a fantastic basketball coach that has gotten into it with two different front offices. and you can blame the front offices or you can blame Dave, but I mean, they've had a pretty solid front office with Kevin Pritchard there in Indiana. And so that's the kick, right? That's how that ends. It's not, it doesn't end. It hasn't ended either place because of he wasn't a good coach.

It ended both plays because there was a clash with the front office, and it ends up becoming a pissing match, right? Like, hey, you should be playing Marvin Bagley. know I'm going to play B. Alita because I'm trying to win games and I don't care about their future as much as you do because I'm trying to win as many games. And it's like, it just ends badly, right, where the front office ends up hating him and he ends up hating the front office. And then it's like, what, what happened here? You're both good at your jobs. And yet, obviously, in Sacramento, that wasn't the case. They weren't both good at their jobs.

The front office was imbeciles. And so I think that's why people still have Dave Yeager high on list. I mean, they know every coach that coaches against Dave Yeager thinks Dave Yeager's a good coach. You know what I mean? Yeah, it'll be interesting to see which direction the Clippers go. But, you know, unless it's Ty Loo or some surprise candidate that just pops out of nowhere, like a guy they have targeted, you know, whether it's a high level assistant on some teams or, you know,

someone from college, uh, I always expect the clippers to do their due diligence. Okay, last one, Pelicans. What do you think? We talked about Ty Lou. We talked about De Antony's name, you know, came up. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what happens here. During the playoffs, I had heard from multiple sources that the Pelicans had their preference, a coach who was still currently in the bubble. And people expect that that was either Ty Lue or Mike Dan Tony,

who obviously both have been connected. But I'm just saying that to give some context to that was out there when those teams, Houston and the Lakers were both still in the postseason, that that was floating around both. And in front offices at Disney, that's where it seems to originate. It's interesting because they're both, they're both, they're both guys that are going to command a ton of money to get them to be your coach. And small markets usually do not shell out a ton of money for their head coach. You know what I mean?

It's hard to convince owners in small markets that it is worth it to spend a fortune on a head coach. They usually don't. That is commonplace. I guess Oklahoma City spent money on Billy Donovan. you know what I mean but I mean you're talking about quits I mean that's usually the rub with the small markets right for coaches is that they usually want to go to a bigger market because bigger markets do pay more they do for sure you know so we'll see no salary cap like you said yeah no and that and when you got bomber and no salary cap who knows what he can do man that would be really that would be really funny if we find out like he offered some coach 10 years a hundred million dollars Yeah. He is the kind of dude did like, you know. I mean, look, the fact is, is it was a Balmer driven decision.

Yeah. To move on from Doc Rivers. I believe the Clippers even released a statement that they came to an agreement, right? It wasn't like technically fired. They came in agreement to part ways, right, which is the nice way of saying you were fired. But, you know, fact is, I believe it was a Jerry West driven decision here, not as much the front office who, in fact, did support Doc and, you know, Lawrence Frank and Doc Rivers said, you know, coach together in Boston, they've been together for a lot of years. They still wanted to keep it going to my understanding.

But ultimately, that's what comes back to it with the Clippers. Balmer wants to do better than an already really, really good coach and Doc Rivers. What does that mean? I would imagine they're going to try to swing big just based off the conversations I've been having with other front offices and they're on the league. Well, Kevin, even if this NBA finals ends up being a total wipeout, hopefully we get a bunch of coaching news still. And then we'll be able to turn our attention rather quickly to the NBA draft and free agency.

It's going to be here before we know it. Before we know it. I will talk to you on Tuesday. Thanks to producer Sasha, as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you then. Everybody have a beautiful weekend.