The Ringer NBA Show - Lakers-Palooza With Mike Trudell | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 2, 2021

Logan and Raja are joined by Lakers beat writer and sideline reporter Mike Trudell to discuss the Lakers at this point in the NBA season (2:00). Then Jomi hops on to ask Mike some of his most pressing questions (40:40), before Logan and Raja each give their Real One of the Week (50:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guests: Mike Trudell and Jomi Adeniran Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Mallory Rubin. And I'm Van Laithen. Check out the Ringerverse podcast from The Ringer for all things, superhero movies, nerd culture, and fandom entertainment. We have instant reviews and fun takes on all the latest news and more, available now on Spotify. Hello, dear. This is Logan Murdoch.

I'm here with Rajabelle. We had a little quick holiday hiatus. How was your Thanksgiving, bro? I haven't seen you in a minute. How you doing, dude? Good, buddy. I did good Thanksgiving, man. I spent some time up in the Northeast, my in-laws in New York, Massachusetts.

There's something about, like, I'm a proud Floridian. I would choose not to live anywhere else, especially as a semi-retired person because of the weather. But there is something about the cold and the fall around the holidays, and it was pretty cool, brother. Did you dig deep in the closet for the Canada goose, just a big old jacket to find it? Did you have to go?

Did you have to dig deep in there? Did you even have a jacket for the Northeast around this time? I do. I do. Listen. I mean, as much as, as much as I love Florida, sorry to interrupt, but as much as I love Florida, there's, like, you can't really dress in Florida because it's hot as hell all the time. So it gave me a chance to dig in and get into my bag a little bit. We got to get you to the bay, man.

We just got, we got to get you to the bay where there's, you can, you can dress, you can get your swag on. You can wear, you know, go to San Francisco, wear your, your, your real winter jacket at night. And, you know, we just got it. That's basically the anecdote to everything. Just come through. Just come kick it. But no, man, Thanksgiving was lit, bro. I watched my Raiders.

Did you see the autumn win? My Raiders was out here killing. So you're back? We're back. We're back. The silver and black is back. The silver and back. We're here.

But neither here nor there, man. We're having our first Palooza edition. A couple weeks ago, Raja was talking about how, you know, we always talk about the Lakers on this podcast and how we need to wait a second to, give our critiques 20 games in. Now, 20 games in was during the holiday break. And so we decided to have a Lakers Palooza where we have our guy, Mike Trudell, try to talk Raj off the ledge, myself off the ledge, Joe Me off the ledge, everybody off the ledge about how, you know, we thought the Lakers are going to be trash. We think the Lakers are going to be trash right now. I don't

know. We'll see. But we had Mike talk us off the ledge, and that was pretty cool, man. I had a blast. What did you think about what Mike had to say? Are you, did you, are you, are you, are you hawked off the ledge? Are they championship contenders again? What do you, what are you thinking after our conversation with Mike? Really insightful conversation. I enjoyed it a lot. Um, had some great points. I, I don't think ultimately, like if you made me pick the Lakers or the field, I'm taking the field, um, but some real good points were made as to why I should still and, and people should still reserve judgment because again, that 20 games was provided there weren't a ton of injuries. And you've had those. So you might just need to reserve.

for a little bit more. Great, great conversation. Yeah, man. Our first ever, Lakers Palooza up next with Mike Trudeau. Spabin, Ruins, Logan Murdoch, Raja Bell. Raja, it's Laker Palooza time. We have Mike Trudell, the Lakers sideline reporter for Spectrum Sportsnet. Long time. You've seen him around, right?

I know he's been around the block for for decades out here in Los Angeles. He's here to talk to us about the Lakers, the first half of their season, first quarter of their season. How are you doing, Mike? What's going on? How are you doing, Doug? It's a pleasure to be here. It really is.

I mean, the main reason that I came on was I was promised I would get to speak to Jomey at some point. But I do also, I do also have a lot of respect. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mike. Who? I don't know who that. Who's that?

Come on, man. He's the one word guy. He's a one word name guy. Okay. But I do have a lot of respect for watching a lot of Rajabelle in person since I, I, I started covering the league back in 2006. So, and Roger, you're still looking good, man. You're still looking good on the Zoom.

I appreciate that. Mike from the neck up, man. I'm holding it down. Oh, I hear that. So, Roger, this is your fault that we're doing this Lakers Paloosa, because you said, we've been trying to talk about the Lakers in-depth, and you said, wait a second, wait after 20 games. Wait after 20 games.

Chill, relax. We can only see a team after 20 games. Raja, what are your impressions right now? And then we're going to get some mic to kind of like make sure that we're all in line what we're doing because he's in the locker room. Raja, what are you feeling right now? What's going on? All right, a couple things.

First of all, I will use an analogy and compare the Lakers and me saying we needed to wait to pick and roll basketball play, right? Like when you're teaching young kids, you don't want to like, you want to like stretch to pick and roll out. You want to give it time to breathe. You want to let it kind of come into focus so you can make the right read off of it. If you try to get it all done at the point of the screen, like you have no idea what you're looking at.

So like I just didn't know what we were looking at with the Lakers. It was too early. You had to let me play a little bit. Stretch it out. And I did, in fairness, if we have this on whack somewhere, the caveat to me having a judgment at 20 games was if they suffered some kind of major injury

and one of those main three players had to miss significant time. That has happened. Having said all of that, this Lakers team is not winning a championship. It's not happening. Okay. All right. Because that was our pick.

Our pick was the Los Angeles Lakers. Now, Raj, I see your chop in a bit. Go ahead. I've always priding myself on being able to say I made a mistake.

Or apologizing to someone, even in all of my fly off the handle type of, you know, electricity sometimes. I made a mistake. I made a mistake. They're just bad. You know,

and I love LeBron. And I, you know, I love Russ. I think AD is super talented, but I've had my questions about some of the, actual winning intangibles with him.

But they're just, they're bad on both ends of the court. You can't be that. You can't be bad on both ends of the court. Now, let's get this. You brought up LeBron and I want to bring in Trudel for this one. Tridale, I saw you a couple days ago in Sacramento when, very briefly, I might add, that's on me. Saw you. And the big news of the night was LeBron James has COVID.

Now, I don't want to get into the COVID part of this. but I do want to get into the absence part of that because it tells a larger story, which is roster inconsistency this season when you talk about LeBron being out of the lineup for a myriad of injuries and illnesses, and also guys like Wayne Ellington and Trevor Areza and THT for an extended point. How much is that kind of messed up what the Lakers thought they were going to be through these first 20 or so games? Well, so a big disadvantage that you could say for almost any NBA team that comes through the season with the new roster is the lack of continuity as compared to some of the teams that are playing well. So look at Phoenix so far this season in Golden State. Almost the exact same teams as that finished last season.

And same system, right? Same coaching staff, same stars getting their shots in the right places. So that was the part where the Lakers were. Okay, how much can Russ's infusion of energy make up for what? it's clearly the lack of cohesion because you have three players that are coming back, LeBron, AD, and THT. And that was the first part. The second part is when you have LeBron James, and I think that I'd be curious for Raj's thoughts on this too, but you're not going to be a system offense. You're not going to be the type of team that runs like what the Warriors run or even what the sons run with Chris Paul, who's making sure they get executing every other possession. So where LeBron's not on the court for half of the first part of the season,

and you have all of the new players, and it goes from having the two-way type players, whether it was KCP or Alex Caruso or Kuzma. And now you're bringing some guys that are a little bit more of a specialist nature, like a monk and an Ellington, right? Even the bigs, like a DJ. So all of that recipe is, I think, why we've seen them now be at 12 and 11. And it's fair that what Roger said,

what we've seen so far, they absolutely don't look like a team that can win a championship. But I do think Logan, and this is the long version of this answer, that some of the lineups that they've used when they've actually gone small with Russ, when he has set some screens and gotten out of the way for LeBron and AD pick and roll,

and they have put some of the guys that can, like if they get the big wing back in Areza, there's some, there's a shell there that I think you can't discount. But it's been really difficult to see it so far and it's put them behind the eight ball, no question. That was definitely going to be my next question was, what are there seeds that people in Lakerland that are watching consistently can see being planted that would bear fruit at some point?

Because I tend to agree with you in that, you know, I got to make a prediction because I'm pressed to make it. We're 20 games in, right? People want to hear it. But my gut also says what I was alluding to before. Like there have been so many injuries and there's been no time for that thing to gel that there is a shot. What concerns me, though, is just, I mean, every single team that's won a championship has been top 10 defensive and offensive efficiency.

The Lakers are bottom of the league in both of those. So, you know, that would be my question is like, are you guys seeing signs when they've briefly been together that would say, okay, there is a silver lining here. It just might take, you know, I don't know, instead of 20 games, we might be looking at a halfway mark. It might be 40 games before they start to hit a stride. No, for sure, Roger. And that's the small sample size theater that we get into because when you're looking at the lineup data so far, I can pull out a bunch of lineups with either AD or LeBron of the five, by the way. They've been starting to go, Frank Vogel's idea a couple of games ago was, all right, we're just going to play one of the bigs now.

It's going to be either DeAndre or Dwight. And then in the backup minutes, LeBron is going to play backup five, which they did against Indiana and just pounded them. Like it went in a big run in the fourth quarter and overtime. That was interesting. And so there are snippets like that where they've really controlled pace, they've controlled tempo. And with LeBron and AD on the back line, they're still big enough to be imposing there. And so, Logan, I want to kind of kick this back to you if I can and take what Roger just said, because what I've said since AD came to the Lakers, they've got these two superstars who can play

both ends of the court and really impact you. And the only other team that I thought had a chance to do that was the Clippers because they had Kauai and Paul George, you know, went healthy. Even like, even when you get into the Warriors and as great as stuff is, he's not going to actually, he's not going to positively impact the defensive end, even if he's pretty good relative to what people think. Or if you get into Booker and Chris Paul, or if you look at even Hardin paired next to the KD, who can certainly do it.

So that to me was kind of the Laker superpower. When they got into a playoff series, both of these guys are going to be able to give you the business on both ends. And then you put the three pieces next to them to go with it. It's just that the team looks so different now that. it's hard to pull out like what it's going to look like, as Roger alluded to, when we get 20 games down the road because we just haven't seen much of it yet. Yeah, I think that goes to roster, overall roster construction. When you go into this season with the guy, like on paper, this roster's really good.

If you look at just names on paper, you have a Carmelo Anthony, you have a DeAndre Jordan, you have a, you have Anthony Davis and LeBron James and Malik Monk, who I love right now. But when you get into it into the roster construction, these guys are all, their top guys are all aging. And it's hard to kind of have a cohesiveness when there's guys in and out of the lineup. And also these guys haven't played with one another. And because I think me and you both, Mike, were at the home opener, which was Warriors, was Warriors Lakers. And that's when the team was as healthy as it was.

The Lakers played. I think they played as well as you're going to play for guys playing with each other for, you know, a few, about a month, right? I think they played really well considering those circumstances. Now, I want to kick this to Raja. What is it like when you don't have that cohesion and everybody's starting off fresh with each other? But there's so many injuries to start the season

and you have to kind of work from behind. When you think about it, the Lakers are just six in the Western Conference. They can go on a run and get right into the thick of things. But when you have this lack of cohesion because of injuries, because of all these things, how does that hurt a basketball team? So the Lakers are a unique. team in that I typically, you know,

like again, would say 20 games, 30, 40 game. You know who you are. But the Lakers are still star heavy and they have these proven entities that I could make a case for them just getting healthy and starting to play good basketball like

in the last quarter of the season. And if they can catch fire, you know, being healthy and firing on all cylinders, it's really hard to sustain that level like of a Golden State all year. I mean, they've done But that's hard. A lot of teams go through their ups and downs and then they hit their stride at the right time and get hot. And now you're a hell of a team to go up against in the playoffs.

Chemistry, you know, chemistry is one of those things, especially when you're dealing with ball, you know, dominant guys and figuring out the definition of roles that takes time. And, you know, it's almost, you know, for the Lakers, it's tough because every time LeBron's got to sit out, you're hitting a reset button. You are. With a guy like, with a guy like like Russell Westbrook, whose natural instinct is to try to impose who he is on a game,

the way he knows how to do it, which is having the ball in his hands and taking the lion's share of the responsibility. Every time LeBron is absent from that lineup, it casts him back into a role that you don't want him to be playing ultimately for you to have the best chance to win. And so that's a scary thing for me with the Lakers. you know, and quite frankly, you know, bigger, bigger picture, you know, I guess we're talking about

the cyborg that has been LeBron James and are we starting to see like humanity set in, right? Like this isn't now a one-off. This is every year now where we're getting some sort of injury where he wasn't injured before. And so for the Lakers chemistry, you're literally hitting, you're hitting the reset button every time he's got a misextended time for something because ideally you would have them really drilling down on what am I going to do in this offense to win?

What do I need to do to help LeBron? How much of LeBron does he have to give up to allow Russ to be Russ? Like where does AD come into play and are we going to put the saddle on him late in the game

and ride him down the home stretch? And all of those things get reshuffled every time one of those major pieces has to sit out. Yeah, it's funny. I want to get Mike's perspective on this because it wasn't

Frank Vogel who said this. I think was Dwight Howard. Talked about after the King's game where Frank Vogel lit into the team. This is the King's game from this week, not the triple overtime that gave Jomey a heart attack. But after the game, he said, Dwight said that Frank Bogle said that we need to stop looking towards a title and something alluding to those things of like we're looking

at trying to get a championship, but there's other things that need to be done before that. What are the Lakers striving for at this particular point? Obviously, it's a championship, but you've got to put one step in front of the other. How do they do that to get themselves back online? because there's been those quotes. The AD has said, oh, we can go on a 10-game winning streak, and no problem, nobody will talk. But it's one thing to do that, but there's things that go into a 10-game winning streak. It's not as easy to say we're going to win.

What do the Lakers need to accomplish? Do they need to take short-term goals? Do they need to continue to go to it? Or with championship or busts, how do they maneuver through this stretch of the season to start to get to that championship level? Well, Roger alluded to this, and I think what the challenge is, is that LeBron, has such a massive impact on regardless of if he's at full NBA finals LeBron or early regular season LeBron, it's still. Like when he's on the court, that is the main thing.

That's to go back to the Pat Raleism. So when he's not on the court and then Russ has to pick his game up, but how much should he? Because AD is also out there. So those guys are still figuring out how to play together. But here's the thing. They've already started to get there. The first couple of weeks of the season with AD and Russ, it wasn't great in the non-Lebron

lineups. But now they've had pockets of games, like after LeBron got ejected in the Pissons game, Russ and AD just completely tore apart the Pissons. And we know the Pistons aren't great. Okay, so that's one thing. But then they did it again against the Knicks, a little bit of a step up there. You get to Sacramento. Again, still not a good team, but pretty good. In the game against Milwaukee, they actually had a lot of really nice moments against Yannis. So it's like that part of it is starting to build. But this is where I just go right back to LeBron James as being at the center of this. And I think that he's looking at this calendar year as a true 365 days. Where is his body going to be by the end of the season so that he can be peaking through

a playoff run? And maybe that's part of the concept, Raja, of getting Russ in the first place. Because Russ can, he can absolutely raise your floor in a regular season with just the motor. And it might take a little bit. Like it took Washington three months to get going and get used to him. It took Houston a while, but eventually teams realize how Russ plays and I think adapt some. And for me, this all comes back down to where LeBron is at when they get to that key point of the season and how those guys can figure it out together. But I still can't, Roger, I have a hard time until I see it. I have a hard time betting against LeBron knowing how to get himself through, you know,

through this calendar year. Listen, I agree with you 100%. I've made it a habit. I could never bet against the team he was on. And yeah, I almost feel bad doing it. So it's going to take me to this question. Bear with me as I get there. I agree with you and Russ.

And I've always said I'm interested to hear your, I think that Russ, while yeah, he definitely raises your floor through the regular season. And I think personally that if LeBron were willing to kind of change the way he approached it, and I know that sounds blasphemous, right? But I think that Russ could be, you know, the type of that would raise that floor in the playoffs, too, give you give you the type of support that you would ultimately need. But I think it's going to require someone else giving up a part of them. And I know everyone analytically would be like, he's never done it.

But I'm almost telling you, I think I know better than that. And I know how that sounds. Because if LeBron and AD could figure out how to just use him enough and let him be himself enough, I think it really does protect you. in some of those, you know, playoff scenarios, and it allows LeBron to get the rest of the needs. So here's where I'm going to go. LeBron, I know that he can flip a switch. I've watched him do it in person.

I've never seen an NBA player say, hey, I'm going to take it to here for 25 games, we'll be here at 50, and then have it come to fruition. I watched that firsthand with LeBron. It's hard for me, having been a role player in the NBA, to see myself doing it.

And so that's the danger, right? Like, LeBron can do it? Can Malik Monk do it? can Trevor Areza do it? And if we're approaching that like that organizationally, is that dangerous? So my question to you is you're there every day? Like, is this a LeBron thing or is this a Laker team big picture? We're going to be fine down the road because one scares me, one doesn't.

No, you're totally, you are kind of, you're having to hit like the punch button and the kick button like at the same time there. Like you can't just have one. And so for I think that's what Frank Vogel is trying to establish, Roger, like the rest of the team and the team as a whole has to have a baseline. of defensive effort and can't just make like, so we took DeAndre Jordan out three minutes into the game against the Kings, put Dwight Howard in. And like that's one thing that he knew he was going to be able to get from Dwight, sort of a baseline of this is how we play defense, multiple effort.

And that has to spread through the rest of the team. But the whole thing with LeBron and like how the degree to which he can get there in what Russ can, I think it's all about the last five minutes of games to an extent. Like this is why Phoenix has been killing. teams because you get down, the good teams are all relatively close this year. I don't think there's a team that's going to be that dominant, even though Golden State and Phoenix have the record where they're at. But like Milwaukee now, they haven't lost with their big three healthy yet. So I think they're being a little underrated. Back to the point, though, Russ, I think is going

to be maybe the one guy that he would really defer to down the stretch is LeBron. I think even different from when he was playing with KD, different from when he was playing with James Hardin, different from when he was praying with Bradley Beale. I think that there's this, there is something there about the way that he looks at LeBron, and that is the guy that you have to have making those decisions.

But up until that point, Raja, does his role have to decrease that much so that LeBron can completely paper over a game? I don't think so. It's just about, is his mindset willing to accept that things get tight, the Lakers figure out the rotation

and LeBron's the guy driving the ship? That, to me, is still something that they can aspire to. One thing that I, I'm going back to the season of the previous Lakers season, which is, I think it was the 2000-01 season when Kobe got injured

for an extended period of time. And Shaq, you know, just went on a tear in that 01 season. And when Kobe came back, because he was watching from the sidelines, he kind of figured out how to play with that roster. And they went on a 15-game winning streak and had one of the best playoff runs

of all time. How can, do you think that that can help in this, in this iteration of the Lakers where LeBron is watching from the sidelines and he's so smart and he sees how Malik Monk plays, who is probably my favorite player on the Lakers this season, seeing how he's playing, seeing how Mello's playing, seeing how Russ plays, seeing how this roster plays without him, and then kind of use those mental notes to integrate himself into that roster? Do you think that that's a plausible thing that can happen again, Mike, or am I reaching right now?

I mean, I think that LeBron sort of knows all that kind of stuff just by being LeBron. So he's not the one. What I think is more, it's more important that Monk and the rest of those guys get enough requisite minutes around the actual healthy LeBron and AD and Russ. And that's why I mentioned early guys on the pod that there's in these small sample sizes, you've seen some pockets where they start to figure it out. when they're in that lineup. But it has to think about how much Phoenix

or Golden State have played together so that the whole team already knows that stuff. And that's the catch-up. But it's, Roger, that's, I feel like I'm keep getting back to that same point. Where the Lakers can ultimately get to, though, is that LeBron and even AD, I think can beat those systems

in Golden State in Phoenix. And we saw last year even. Like, that team wasn't that cohesive, but they were up to one when AD got hurt. Because LeBron and they're just such, they're so difficult to deal with. at that point. It's just the rest of the guys have to have a certain level, and that's why we need to see it happen for a couple months. Now, Roger, I'm prepared for the thunder and the rain and all and everything going right now when I ask you this question.

20-something games in. Time to have the Russell Westbrook conversation with you, my friend. What have you been your impressions? What have you thought? And what's going on, man? Because I can't, I love Russ. But there are, there's, there's, some things that there's some critiques. I don't know if there's going to be slander because I can't say that word around you. But what have you thought of Russell Westbrook so far throughout this, through the onset of this season? Okay. What I will say to you is because he's in a Laker uniform, we're combing it with a finer-tooth comb. He's doing essentially what he does.

Let me give you the numbers. All right? Just so we're clear, it's 28 and 9. Like, that's what Russ is doing with less ball in his hands than he's had in play. before. Mike hit the nail on the head. Every single place he goes, this happens. They come out of the gates. It doesn't look pretty. He's a unique style of play. You know, his energy is never in question. His heart in terms of wanting to win a game is never in question, but it is unique, right? And so they struggle, they stumble. But eventually winners win, man, and he's going to help you win. You

just got to figure it out. Sure, it's looked ugly at times. I'll be the first to admit that, dude. Like, I've watched games, but what I'll say to that again is, like, I watch more Lakers games than I was watching Washington games last year, right? And so he's got ugly games all the time. So I'm not really putting this on Russ. Like, I don't think it's the most natural fit. I do believe that use the right way. And Mike was perfectly correct in what he said about the last five minutes of the game. Rush, you have to understand that while you're here, like this,

isn't yours in the last five minutes. There may be times where LeBron looks at you and says, now go and you got to be ready to go. But if he doesn't do that, you play your position. Like, he's got to be able to do that. But I don't have a beef with Russ. He's older. He doesn't defend the way he defended before.

That's part of the problem. What scares me with the Golden States and the Phoenixes is they move so much and there's so much energy and so much force and deliberateness with their offense that if the Lakers can't find some young, fresh legs to really supplement those older vets, I usually agree that LeBron and AD are enough, but it scares me. But I don't have a beef with Russ. And I'm sorry if anybody wanted me to come on here. And if you're disappointed that I won't slander Russ.

You should know me by now. But I won't. It's not perfect. But he's doing what he does. It's funny because when I see Russ, we still got to understand a dude has played on three teams in three different years. He hasn't had a second year with a team. team to where he can find cohesion with the roster. And I'm giving, you know, and I've been frustrated

with Russ, but also, like, I watched. Let me ask, let me ask a question. This is better. This is better. This can be better for the audience. Because I didn't give you anything. But what is frustrating for Laker fans about Russ? Like, that's what I'd like to hear? And it can all be valid. I mean, I'm not going to, what's frustrating you? The biggest thing that just frustrates me, it's the same thing that's always frustrated me about Russ. It's that he can't get out of his own way. It's like, He feels like he has to shoot his way out of situations. He has to, and it's funny because I got a bit more context of kind of how he maneuvers and the way he goes about life in general.

And I watched his Showtime documentary. I was in L.A. L.A. about a month or so ago and got to go out of the honor to go to his premiere for his showtime thing. Gotham Choper directed that. And I got to see, like, he's been doubted for so long in his life that he takes every single possession as an offense to every single person that's doubted him, right? And I feel like sometimes Russ, bro, just pass the ball. Your shot is broke today.

It's okay. You're a great passer. You're a great rebounder, all these things. You can affect the game in other ways. You don't have to take everything on the chin. I think that's what frustrates me the most, Roger. So I hear that. And it's with love, though.

It's with love of his game. That's not even, I don't hate Russ. I just think that he can make better decisions is what frustrates me. And I think like, you know, if you were building the perfect basketball player that didn't have a flaw in his game, we'd be an Alice in Wonderland type shit. Like, where everybody has a flaw in their game, man. Like, Russ is, I just want to be clear. You know, his fuel goal percentage right now is like fourth highest in his career. His shot attempts are down.

Like he, like third lowest in his, or fourth lowest in his career. Like, he's doing essentially what he does. Like, it's not, and I'm watching those games, and I'm seeing him down the stretch. Like, yes, he's going to shoot because he feels like he's a really good player. And he's averaging 20 a game.

But he's going to shoot his numbers. Like, he's going to shoot what he's always shot. And he does, like, was it the pacer game? I watched him, like, distribute at the end of the game and get AD easy buckets and, like, drive the paint, collapse it, and catcher... Like, he's just doing what he does.

So for those Laker fans that are frustrated, like, you're gonna... You're just... You just don't know his game. That's what he does. Yeah. Now, Shredale, I want to... I want to ask you this question.

And I love Russ. I really love Russ and everything that he does. And I made the argument, and I want to hear your opinion on this, that they got Russ because he is a guy that has, you know, he's a veteran and has been in the postseason. He has done these things.

He can integrate into a veteran team more than the other guys that the Lakers can trade for. How much are the Lakers banking on that with this, right? Where they do have a guy like Russ who has seen, you know, he might not have been successful in some postseason games. But he's been in the postseason. He is a veteran. He knows what it's like in a different game. How much were the Lakers banking on that and how much are they banking on that now? Like, we don't really care about the regular season.

we're trying to get into the postseason when it matters and we need a guy who's been there before. How much are the Lakers banking on that right now? So to tie in some of what Raja was just saying about Russ is that in kind of Logan, the way that you expressed a frustration there, some of the mistakes that he makes are loud because that's what his personality is. And that's what he, so it might be a turnover at the wrong time

or it might be a three-point pull-up shot that he thinks is going to completely change the momentum of the game. And it might. And it's happened before. But when it doesn't go in, right, it's a loud mistake. It's not like an in rhythm three in the corner. It's a good point. It's a good point. But that underlies something.

And I think I've heard Raja mentioned before as a real one's listener that like he also, you don't pay as big of attention when he gets his ninth defensive rebound of the game. Or when he drops the ball off to a big for a dunk. So he's just become so that stuff we've kind of come to expect with the triple double stuff, the stuff that doesn't go well, especially in the concert of the game, is focused on. So to bring this back to where it always matters

with the Lakers, which is LeBron and AD, those guys know Russ. Like, they know that. They played on Team USA with them. They played against them. They know what that is. The whole key to me is slotting. It's a term that Darius Soriano,

the Laker Film Room podcast, always uses with Pete's eyes. And it's like, when he's the third, when he's the third guy, and he's never been that really before. Because James Hardin came in as the sixth man. on that team in OKC. So if LeBron's there,

and AD, who we haven't talked about much, but like AD is doing what he always does this year. He's completely been a monster on defense. He's shooting over 50%. Yes,

the jump shot isn't falling, but he's getting into the paint more. Like, when they go small and LeBron gets into that full mode, and this now sounds like a, like a hype thing for Westbrook, which it's not.

But then all of that stuff that he can do, it really is raising the floor. And you have LeBron and AD as the actual, topers. And sometimes it could be Russ too. But like that has to be the concept of Russ. Because they, he's not going to be the guy that he was in Washington where they were leaning on him to do everything by the end of the season, even with Beal there. That was not, I don't think, the idea.

And it portends to how he really fits in with LeBron and AD. And we've seen it for what, eight games so far. And like that's going to, that's, that sample size has to grow. I have a question. Because I'm familiar with LeBron and the way is kind of mind works. and he's always looking and he's always got an idea of what fits. And while he never really pulls the strings in organizations, he's always in communication with what he needs because he's got that unique style. Is there a move for the Lakers to make? Is there something out there that the Lakers need that,

like it's a glaring hole in their ability to get to where they're trying to go? So I feel like this is an answer, Raja, that almost any NBA team could be. but it's it's the bigger two-way wing that's always seemingly in short supply. Now, that was part of the reason, though, that they got Trevor Areza. And we just spoke to him for the first time a couple of days ago. And he's still a bit away from playing, but he's starting to get there. And so the idea of Arisa, 6-8, right, doesn't need the ball,

is going to spot up and shoot corner threes, can actually, like, when you go small, can be a low man that impacts the rim, which is something that they haven't, They don't really have on the roster other than that. And that's why I think they've been hesitant to go smaller more often. Whereas in the past, whether it was a Kuzma, who's 6-9, or a Marquith Morris, then all of a sudden your small lineup is still big. And because, Roger, what teams are doing, they're going to pull AD out in a screen role there when he's playing at the center, right?

And that's when you need either LeBron or another wing to kind of help out inside. And when they do that, they're really, really hard to score upon. So whether that's Erezza or a move, absolutely. Absolutely. Like they have to get that guy. And I think that's when we really start to talk about them being in business for the idea of the team that where they wanted to go to. Logan, does that make sense? Were you going to get on that too? Well, no, no, I just need you to talk Rajah off the ledge on something really quickly. Now, Roger has been hard, externally and internally on real ones and all the chats and everything about AD. Can you, can you give me 60 seconds really quickly to talk Raja off the ledge about AD? Can you tell them it's going to be a lot? okay and that AD is a great player and it's going to work out. Can you just give him 60 seconds? This is like really just make sure that he is okay. Just tell him that he's an MVP. Logan, I don't want to answer a question with a question, but I need to, I need, I want Roger to speak for himself before I try

to tell him something. Thank you, Mike. Okay. So I'm, I would like to cede his AD opinion before I tried to counter or give him anything on it. Mike, I appreciate your graciousness, sir. Because words were put in my mouth there. Now, I never said AD wasn't a great talent with with superhuman almost abilities for size and and and uh his skill set is remarkable. I've always worried about AD Mike in in the number one role. That's where I've worried about him. I don't really have concerns in a in a true number two role. Um, I think he's the probably best number two on the planet.

Like I mean, you know, uh, or one of them when you throw James Hardin or Kyrie or somebody like that in the mix, but I don't, I've always worried about him. if the winning had to be on his shoulders. I can't put my finger on it. There's some things that revolve around rolling up your sleeves and getting dirty that if we got into the woods with it, I would tell you. But the overall picture is as a number two,

I think he's fine. I think he's great. I just don't know if he's a number one. And so my concern with him is if LeBron was going to transition, if the Lakers plan was to always transition LeBron out of the number one, into the number two and have AD be the number one, was that viable? Like, could we count on that?

And those were my concerns still are, but nothing about like his, like he's phenomenal. It's a really, it's a really interesting. Yeah, it's a way to, it's a really interesting way for me to think about just MBA history, though. And then almost separating a big man to an extent from a guy that's going to have the ball in his hands to really initiate.

And so how many real true number ones that can go, a title are there? I mean, LeBron, Janice, KD, you know, now, Step is a little bit of a different thing because you've got to have the right personnel defensively, but I mean, Yokic is in terms of an offense, yes, but when that's your

key defensive spot, can that really get you to the title? I mean, Embed is the initial, like it's, the conversation, I think, is tougher when you really put it into context. Even thinking about Shaq, like somebody as dominant as Shaq really did need Kobe.

as that elite sort of number two, but who was really kind of a number one when it got down the stretch in the fourth quarters? So to me, that's the basketball part of this that I think has to be included in it. And since AD does have guard skills, and he, especially in the bubble, like we have to put the bubble into context too, though,

because everybody shot better in the bubble, right? The circumstances were perfect for it, but he was phenomenal there. How much of that was because LeBron was next to him? certainly some of it. But again, Roger, so throughout NBA history, there are so few of those ball dominant big, LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, KD, those guys that can really be that guy. So I don't, I don't know if I hold AD to that particular standard. Like, I think he's, he's met pretty much every moment that they've asked him to. So maybe, maybe I'm conflating at two different conversations,

but I just want to throw that back in there. No, I mean, I think that's fair, right? When you're, when you're, when you're going to put, I don't know, a rare air of eight, nine, ten players. Like, I would agree. Like, I can't hold them to that standard. I wouldn't. I've heard people try to right hand corner, bottom right hand corner. But I'm with you if we're not going to put him in that conversation. I guess, you know, Mike, but what?

So I think about the Pelican teams. And I had this argument with a lot of people in the Cleveland Cavs front office as it pertain to Kevin Love, right? And the numbers. Now, I know he's way better than Kevin Love, so forgive me as I go off on this. But like when the team is yours, even if the roster isn't great, like, can we, I just feel like greatness is supposed to, maybe I'm expecting more. Maybe I'm asking more of him because I just know he's so talented. But it just didn't compute.

And from sources that I had in the building there in New Orleans, it didn't seem like he wanted to lead that. Like, do you know what I mean? And so then I worried about if you're going to ask him to whether that was a. the DNA. So New Orleans was a separate thing. I mean, I don't think they had enough talent to really do more than what they did, which was sweet Portland in the first round, and then get that Warriors team, right, that was all time. And AD was pretty great in that series too. And then they had the year where essentially, you know, he wanted to be traded. But so two points here. And now this is going to sound like what Logan wants me to do, which is, which is to defend Andy. So defensively,

he is incredible, right? Inside, outside, protecting the rim, switching on the guards, coming over from the weak side, all that. Like, he can shut down, he can go out and guard your premier wings, right? You can go put him out on Janus. You can go put him out on a KD. Don't put that boy on Janus no more. Well, look, and that's a whole different conversation,

but I'd rather have him on Janus than anybody else is my point. I got you. Right? Right? So, for sure, for sure. So there's that. And then, again, I want to try to make this point in maybe local and you can help me with this, but when you're not initiating at least most possessions

on offense, like with the actual basketball, how do you really take over and dominate a team? And dominate as, like, you, I just don't know an example in NBA history of a guy. And this is, yeah, you're dependent. You're dependent on other pieces. And that right there, Raja, is to me part of the difference between like the true alphas because there's just this one basketball. And even though AD can dribble, you know, he's not the guy that you're going to that you're going to ask to do that like it had to be rondo and

drew holiday to an extent for new orleans and that was going to limit them some compared to if it were lebron so that's that's just the pushback but it's a it's a it's a whole it's a complicated basketball history conversation really it is but that's more to fair and i'm not a d hater man i like like real talk i mean come on man i think he's phenomenal sometimes you just got to say some shit to get the point i just wanted him to talk to you off the let's bring the thunder and the rain baby. So we have to just talk specifically specifically to you, Mike

Trudeau. We got the voice of the streets, the voice of the Southland. He's been groomed. Bring him in. He's been groomed by Vic the Brick. He's all in on chickhurn propaganda. He's been here. He's been on Chickhorn court. He's been up and down Figueroa. He's the

voice of the streets. Voice of Los Angeles. Jomi is in the building. Jomey. It's in the building. Jomey has some questions for you, Mike Trudell. Jomey, what's popping? How are you doing, how are you doing, buddy? Logan, Raja, Mike, feeling you.

Happy to be here. I, you know, I went down to Figaroa. I talked to some Laker fans. I was on the Laker subreddit. You know what I'm saying? I was out on these streets, Mike and Laker fans have some questions. So. At least these guys didn't make you drive to Palmdale again, man.

No, no. You know, the way the gas was going to happen, it wasn't going to happen. It wasn't going to happen. So the first year, Frank Vogel was here, number one defense, right? Second year, Frank Vogel was here, number one defense. This year, not so much, right? So, Lake of Friends, want to know what's going on on that side of the ball? You know, we know that with LeBron out, offense was going to struggle.

But on defense, you know, even last year when LeBron was out, they were still holding it down. What's going on, Mike? Well, Jomey, first of all, you're the last person in the world that I would ever want to fact check. But the Lakers technically were third in defensive rating in Frank Vogel's first year. Okay, just now they were the best defense. Okay, they were the best defense. Definitely once they got to the playoffs, the best defense.

But I just want to put that out. Of course. Now, defensively this season, I think it's been two things. And one, any team can point to this. A lot of other teams are banged up, but it certainly has been the injuries. Okay. That has been a big part of it. It's part of the continuity lack.

And I think that the way that Vogel wants to have his team's play on the defensive end requires a ton of effort and engagement. And there's new guys that he is trying to bring along into that. Now, are you going to bring Carmelo Anthony in year 19 into a new way of playing defense that way? No, but you don't expect him to do that. Right. So he comes off the bench. He's hot.

He's overall been good this year. DeAndre Jordan has kind of played the way that he's played. But Malik Monk. starting to get a little better defensively. Like he is starting to buy into some of that stuff. Austin Reeves. I know you love Austin Reeves, show me. That's my guy.

HBK. He can play. He can play defense. So there's some guys that I think are going to be brought along into it, but you have to acknowledge that a coach needs a certain degree of personnel on that end. And same thing with Russ. Like Russ isn't going to be a wholly different defensive player, but he can get a little better and he started to.

And my bad, can I just chime in? You need fresh legs too. You need that youth. You need the Malik monks and the, you know, the younger guys on the roster to buy in because you're not getting that out of Russ LeBron and Mello full scale all the time, you know, situationally for sure. What else we got? What else we got?

What else we got? What else we got? What else we got? My second question. So even though, and you guys talked about this a little earlier, even though 80s jumper, you know, is frankly broke right now, right? Like, you know what I'm saying? you know, I've checked my bank account right now

and I'm broke, but even AD's jumper is brokered in my bank account right now if you can see it. So I just want to understand, even with that, he's still barling, right? He's still getting to the rim. So why are people talking like AD is like, you know, unibrowed moed cheeks out here?

You know what I'm saying? Like, why is he catching so much slander even though outside of his junk, not falling, he's playing extremely well. Yeah, I, so you are now the second person that has put me in a spot to try and defend the honor of one Anthony Davis. I didn't think Roger was actually being so hard on him, which is, which is important that he was able to clarify.

And the jumper, the jumper, here's the thing about jump shooting in the NBA that I think, and I'm happy to be countered by anybody. I think that the way we discuss it is actually a little bit overrated. The whole key to me with a shoot with shooting is getting enough for, from the defense to have to go out and pay attention to you and therefore provide space. Now, whether a guy shoots 40% or 33% from three ends up being a difference of like 10 to 15 made threes on the season, in and out, rim in and out. But do you actually have to guard and pay attention to a guy? So there's a difference in shooting threes even between Anthony Davis and

Russell Westbrook. Because Davis still does get the respect. He can knock it down. I know he hasn't as much this year, but he still has a pretty smooth flow with his jump shot and teams have to get up on him. So my critique, Jomi, is less about the, is less about sort of the, how, whether or not the jump shot is going in, but how often he is getting to the rim and enforcing his will. And that's the part where maybe what Raja was getting to earlier, I can go with, and even AD can go with. And he knows that, like, he just sometimes, he can be more aggressive. And, and that's, that's when the Lakers are at their best. So it's less about the jumper

than it's about settling for the jumper to me. I tell you what, I'd rather have AD take 1003s to see Resburg take one. But that's just me, basically. Now, he's a better three-point shooter. He is.

The percentages don't say so this year, though. Yeah. Now, last question, and this is a personal one. This is just one, like, for me, you know, I talked to all the Laker fans, but I needed one for myself. And this really,

I just need a second, this really hurts. So my son, THT. You know, he just came out hot. The first three games, he was looking like the All-Star that was promised. And ever since he got the braids, it's been downhill, Mike. I need you to talk me off the ledge, Mike, because I'm not going to name names,

but somebody in the streets was talking about Jordan Poole, who, by the way, is playing really well this year. It's playing very well this year for the Warriors, right? both telling me how Jordan Poole, you know, better than T.C., all the stuff with, you know, he's two years older. But I just, I just need some reassurance on my young king. Mike, can you do that for me? First of all, the one that is promised, unfortunately, Logan isn't going to get that reference to, I think maybe the only person at the rigger who wasn't seeing Game of Thrones because I tried to drop a Game of Thrones reference on him the other day up in Sacramento. And he just looked at me with dead eyes and I got sad.

I almost texted you about it, Jomey. It didn't happen. Yeah. Now, THT. So, THT, first of all, he looks so good in the first three games coming off of the thumb surgery that I was actually surprised because I thought it was going to take some time for him to get a rhythm. And I think part of that was LeBron was out and he was given the ball a lot. And he still likes to have the basketball. He's so good at getting to the rim. That's still his best skill and either scoring for himself or not.

But once LeBron got back, that switched a little bit of the, the spots on the floor where he was getting the ball. And then I also think that once he actually, once teams watch those first couple of games, they were like, oh, yeah, THT, he can get to the ramp. We have to back way the hell often. And so that's what teams are doing now. So he's in this zone where he doesn't have consistency on his jump shot yet. He hasn't played a lot of games.

And teams are back and way off just overplaying him to drive. And that's led to him not really being able to find a rhythm on that end. Also, you've got LeBron, Russ, and AD out there who need their. touches. Monk likes the ball. So it's just like a, he's in a spot where they need 3 and D to some extent. And his best skill is the hardest skill maybe to have in the NBA, getting to the rim, breaking down

to defense. And that's like everything else, Jomey, in this Laker land. You're going to take some time for him to figure out what that right balance is, my man. Hey, sounds good. T. T.C.'s got all the time in the world. He just turned 21. He's going to be all right. Mike, I appreciate you taking the time to speak to me. You know what I'm saying? Answer the

question for Lakeland. What a pleasure. You know what I'm saying? You're the best. Hey, you know, we are Laker fans. We stay strong. We've been. We don't break. Be the bamboo. You know?

Appreciate you, Mike. I'm just proud of Jomey for asking these questions. And I don't think Mike's going to get fired. So shout out to Jomey for that. Shout out to Mike Trudell for coming on for our first annual Lakers Palooza, baby. We'll see you down the line. I'll probably see you in the Bay at some point. I don't know when y'all come to debate, but I'll see you.

Stay for the game next time. Stay for the game next time. I will stay for the game. I am much more likely to stay for a game at Chase Center than a game at Golden 1. It's been a pleasure. You guys do a great job. Love listening to the pod. And I will speak to you all soon.

All right. Take it. Yeah, yeah. Man, that was tight, man. Shout to Mike Chardale. Time for drum roll, please. It's time for Roe of the week. I'm going to go first and then we'll go to Rara.

My first real one of the week is none other than Stunna Man 02 from San Francisco. Over the last holidays, man. dude got me through some stuff with the big stepping record, dog. I'm going to put you on in a second, Ra. You don't know nothing about the city stuff, but really about inclusiveness and bringing people, bringing the whole Bay Area together, man, Stunnamano 2. It's my real one of the week.

Ra, who is your real one of the week? My real one of the week, and I don't even think this is debatable, is James Jones, Chris Paul, Devin Booker, DeAndre Aidan, the whole Phoenix Sun staff record label. and MF and crew. The whole valley. The suns are reping in a big way.

I think it's 17th straight, which kind of ties, I think, I believe, our franchise record. And they show no signs of letting up. They just look good. They look good. And we talked on pod,

I don't know how many episodes ago, about the distraction that was the story and whether it would be enough to kind of derail a sun season. I wasn't sure that they could withstand it. And they've just done that. and more.

And so I got to give a shout out, man. Suns, real ones of the week. Man, I'm sure you watch that game against Golden State on Tuesday. I am going to, Golden, I'm going to be at the Warrior Suns Part 2 Friday night at Chase.

That's going to be a vibe. It's going to be, it's going to be turnt. I really like this, this budding rivalry that could happen. You know, there's a lot of subplots there. I love that. So shout out to the sons, man. Coal one of the week,

he is the son. McKell Bridges, though. That was like, to score two points in an NBA game, but have the rest of what you do be as impactful as what he did, I have a special appreciation for that, real one.

A friend of the show, Mikhail Bridges, I saw him in Sack a couple months ago. He showed love, real one of the week. Also, Real One with McHale Bridges. All right. Now, that has been another edition of the Real Ones podcast.

We are back on our normal schedule. We'll be back Monday. But make sure, in the meantime, check out Black Girl's song. book with who, Raja Bell? Town legend, Daniel Smith. Now, I saw Ryan Rucco of the R2C2 podcast with who, Roger Bell.

None other than the Crestside clown. Vallejo's legend, C.C. Sabathia. Now, Ryan said he wants to come on the show. Ryan, we will have you on the show very soon, my friend. Very soon, at some point. But yeah, make sure you go check out that. Make sure you check out Mismacch.

Make sure you check out group chat. Make sure you check out the answer. We'll see you guys on Monday. Holla.