The Ringer NBA Show - Lakers Surge Behind Luka. Plus, Injuries Sweep the League | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck are back with another edition of Real Ones to discuss the Lakers recent hot streak winning nine of their last ten games. How far can Luka and LeBron lead the Lakers in the playoffs with the Spurs and Thunder atop of the conference? Giannis and the Bucks are at odds about letting him play because he’ll most likely find a new home in the offseason. Plus, Pistons guard Cade Cunningham suffered a collapsed lung and will be out indefinitely as he recovers. How will Detroit stay afloat with the MVP candidate set to miss significant time? (01:30) Luka and the Lakers Are Red Hot! (22:01) Should LeBron Stay in L.A. After the Season? (30:11) Major Injuries Across the NBA (31:12) Should Giannis Be Allowed to Keep Playing? (48:58) Cade Cunningham Out Indefinitely With a Collapsed Lung (55:17) Real One of the Week [e-mail] Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell and Howard Beck Producers: Cameron Dinwiddie and Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard Beck and Rajabelle in a second. Really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really fun episode. We talk about the Lakers and Luka. Should we be scared of them in the playoffs? Should we be scared of Luca? Should we be scared of LeBron and Luca down the stretch of playoff games? Is that enough to continue the Western Conference? A lot of questions for the Lakers. And then we lot more questions for Janice and his impasse, latest impasse with the Milwaukee Bucks. And then we talk about Cade Cunningham.

And just a devastating time for an injury and it's collapsed long. We discussed what the best case scenario is for the Pistons and potentially the worst case scenario for the Pistons. All that and more on Real Ones, coming up. Real onesmail back at gmail.com. Real onesmail.com. Real onesmail back at gmail. You tap in because on Tuesday we're going to answer your questions.

I think that's it. Cliff, play the theme music. It was popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. Howard Mother fucking Beck in the cut. He's 100% healthy, I think.

Looks great. It looks amazing. Not even close. All right. Let's start it off, man. Los Angeles Lakers have had a walkie weird year over 30 games stretch this season. They were 19 and 20. And now they have won eight in a row.

in the month of March, Luca Dachis is averaging 30, 7.2 points per game, eight rebounds, 7.5 assists, and the Lakers look very much in the mix of the Western Conference. I will start with Raja here, and I will go to Howard. Should we believe the Lakers wraps or not at this particular point, Roger? Yeah, I think you should believe they're wraps.

What, you know, yes, I mean, they are for, real in that, you know, Luca's having an MVP caliber season. I saw where DeAndre Aiton made some comments recently about having to come to Jesus moment in terms of, you know, his role on the team and accepting what he needs to do for a team like that to be successful, to be successful. Like, that's always critical when you're trying to find that level of team success. I got to give LeBron a lot of flowers for figuring out there was so much talk by me and other folks coming into the season about how that you know i remember two of our pods were about how he would transition and how they would transition with him you know kind of seating more of that responsibility to lucca he's looked

great in that role uh they're defending over the last 10 games in a way that that uh they weren't through a lot of the season i still don't think they win the west like i don't have them beating either san antonio or okayc i'd give them a better chance to be the San Antonio. That's just, you know, you ask me if they're for real. I believe they're living those raps. I do think they're for real. I don't think they beat OKC.

I don't think they beat San Antonio in seven either, but I give them a better chance. Howard motherfucking Beck. It's funny because I don't think anybody saw this coming, right? Like even the most optimistic Laker fans, I think it kind of settled into the idea that like, it's a transitional season. It's LeBron's farewell. un Officially. It's Lucas first full Lakers season. They haven't really rebuilt the roster around Luke. I mean, we've discussed all of this on the pot over the course of the season. And there were

multiple stretches of the season where I think that was an accurate read. Like the Lakers were good but not great, good but not dominant, not in the top tier where you thought they were a threat to beat Oklahoma or San Antonio or at various stages, Denver, Minnesota, whoever you wanted to place in that top tier. Houston once upon a time, but not so much at the moment. We weren't ready to put the Lakers there, and it's because how choppy things were, right? LeBron's out to start the season. LeBron's back. You know, Reeves is out. Do these three even function well together? Three really good players, but oh, they all need the ball on their hands. Is LeBron going to settle into this other role? Is Austin Reeves going to be able to find a way to

play best off of Luca. What about when all three of them were out there to, like all of these different factors. It was so choppy because of injuries early on and then waiting to see how those three would function. JJ Redick losing his mind on a near daily or at least weekly basis about their defense in particular. Like remember the I'm not coming in Saturday if we don't get that or whatever it was. Like it was basically like I can't do another 52 games of this. Like yeah. Sounded like he was at his wits end? Captain Crashout. Yeah.

And holy shit. We wake up here in late March and not only if they won eight in a row, they've won 11 of 12. That stretch includes like some seriously, I think, tangible wins. Like, you know, weighty wins. They beat the Knicks. They beat the Timberwolves. They beat the rockets twice. They beat the Nuggets.

They beat the heat last night, of course, with Luca going for 60. and along the way, like, yeah, their defense has transformed. Now, is that a permanent state of affairs? Is that just a momentary surge? Is it repeatable and sustainable in the playoffs when you're playing nothing but great teams day and day? I don't know, but I'll tell you this. For the season, they now have the 20th ranked defense,

which doesn't sound great and it's been in the 20s all season. But over the last 12 games, their eighth in defensive rating. And since the All-Star break, they're 14th in defensive rating. So it's not just a few weeks here. Like they've been at worst, middle of the pack and defense since the All-Star break. And that's important because they were already elite offensively, right? For the season, seventh-rated offense, last 12 games, number one, since the All-Star break, third. So if you have elite offense in this league and are at least middle the packish defensively,

we saw with the Nuggets winning a championship, like you can go a long way. So it's there, it's real. They've looked incredible the last couple of weeks. But like Raja, like, am I ready to say that this is a team that can take four games from the Thunder or even from the Spurs? And that's the thing, too, right? Because you start thinking about matchups. Let's just focus on those two teams. Like, we know what the Thunder have.

Even the Spurs. Oh, okay, well, they haven't won any playoff series. It would be their first time, blah, blah, blah, blah. How are the fucking Lakers going to defend Stefan Castle, Deer, and. Fox, Devin Vassell, Dylan Harper to say nothing of Wembe. Like those guards are just going to eat them up. And I will say as I- On the flip side of that too, Howard, sorry, on the flip side of that, they have a lot of defensive things that they can throw at you.

Yeah, for sure. And I will say, like, if you've watched the Lakers recently, like the numbers aside, just watching them, Luke is actually playing defense right now. Like, he's working defensively. He's trying. He's trying. That's all you could ask for. He's not threatening to make an all defensive team,

but his effort the last few weeks has been notable. And when the Mavericks, the year they went to the finals, that was a year where in addition to all the defensive, you know, kind of infrastructure that they added around him, Luca that season was noted internally and around the league for how much more he was trying at that end. So you don't, he doesn't have to be elite defensively. He just has to actually apply himself and try.

and, you know, get a little less. Which in and of itself, if, like, in and of itself, that's fucking ridiculous. They were, like, we're just asking. Like, come on, man. Can we just, like, we're just asking him off. You just got to try. I mean, that goes to how good he is offensively, I guess. But that's crazy.

Can we agree? They're like, hey, we could be good if you just try. And we're saying that doesn't always happen. To be fair, that he's not the first superstar where you've had to do that. Yeah, but like, like, he's the one. right now though. He is the one right now. This is not in Lucas' defense,

but just in terms of like context, because I've made this case before. Think of all the MVPs we've had in this league who were like minus defenders, right? Your boy Nash, Dirk, Steph. Yeah, but that wasn't a try. We've had plenty of-

In fairness, like at least Stevie. I can't speak to Dirk. I didn't play with him. But like it wasn't a trying issue. Dirk either. Like he just couldn't move with the needs.

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we should make a distinction between effort and like ability, athletically, physically. But I just, it's important to note James Harden, Russell Westbrook. We've had plenty of NBA MVPs

who got it and who were elite and have built incredible careers off of basically being like 98% value is on the offensive side. And then occasionally they try just enough defensively or maybe aren't that adept defensively. But so anyway,

Luca's got plenty of good company, is what I'm saying. I would just say this. Let me look at the last few MVPs. Well, the last few MVPs have been pretty good defensive players. Shea, Yokic, yokech, y'ch. Joel M. Bid once upon a time when he had knees and had a functioning body was a pretty good defender. Nicola, Yokic, no, no.

But Janus, twice, pretty good defender. Then you go down the list. It's James R. and Russell Westbrook, Steph Curry, K.D., who could be a good defender, but just isn't always the best defender based on like his physical talents, then LeBron, then Derek Rose. All of this down the line, most of the time, it's probably not going to be a great defender. No, I'm not lobby. To be a great defender, of course.

And like, it's not a solely a Luca thing. He happens to be the one now, but like I would push back on like the optics of the way most of those guys defended, maybe James Harding. But nobody else in that category would I put in the category of, when Luca doesn't want to defend what that looks like. None of them, it does not look like that, Howard. I'm not doing that,

like I'm not doing that with you, bro. I'm not gonna do that with you there. I'm not saying that they're all guilty of the same sins as Luca. I'm just saying we've had plenty of incredible great players who for whatever reason, lack of interest or lack of ability, that's true. Were not exactly known for their defense. That's awesome.

I've told this story before. I had a very high end, offensive player tell me one time. Ah, not of the, not of the like all-star level high-end offensive player, but he was the offensive threat on your team that was going to be built around. It did not lead to a championship. I won't say a name, but told me one day sitting in a hot tub when I was lamenting about another really good player on our team saying, man, if he just defend a little bit like we

could be, he said, this is what he said to me verbatim. Sometimes, wait, no, I won't get this right. He said, sometimes asking a motherfucker to play defense just takes away from their offense. And I said, yep, well, you got me there, bud. I went back to reading my fucking book or whatever I was. So those guys, those guys are not like, they're not like, trust me. Like I just said what I said about Luca, but like he's not by himself in that. That is across the landscape.

But it always just irks me a little bit when we're like, if he just try defensively, it's just like nails on a chalkboard. time, so I apologize. Fair point. Okay, so I want to stay on Luca really quickly. And so Luca, to me, and I know both of you guys get this reference, seems like Omar from the wire, right? He is the great equalizer. And more than that, in the postseason, he is the rare type of player that single-handedly when he's on the floor, he puts the fear of God in the other team, right? And can, and because of that, teams that on paper in the playoffs in a matchup won't necessarily look like they can beat a team, but because they have Luca, it just equalizes the

playing field, especially down the stretch, right? And you saw that in those two games against the Rockets this week, right? Where it was funny, I was texting back and forth with Cliff during the last Rocket game. And in the third quarter when the Rockets were going on the defensive streak and they got back in the game,

Cliff was like, oh, the Rockets are going to win this game. And I'm like, they are staring down the barrel of down the stretch of playing against Luca and LeBron James and the Clutch. do not think they're going to win this game, right? But the fact is the next quarter, Luca just goes on fire and is like, I'm just going to shoot everything and everything is going to fucking go in, right?

When you're going into the playoffs, that's why I can't fully write the Lakers office contenders right now because in any given moment, and I think this also speaks to your resignation to fully just give San Antonio like the full, like they're going to win it. Like, they should win it, but are they going to win it? you just don't know because Luca down the stretch of any game can steal you a game, right? How valuable will that be for this postseason, Raja, when you have a guy like that because we've seen him do this before. 2022.

No, the Mavericks had no business getting to the conference finals and yet here they were, right? 2024, no one had the Mavericks going to the finals. And then they beat OKC, they beat Minnesota and largely because of Luca's exploits. and Kyrie had some stuff in there too. But Luca is that type of guy. How valuable is that? And how valuable do you think that that will be in this postseason when you have LeBron and Luca down the stretch of basketball games?

It doesn't really matter who you're playing, right? Yeah, no, that's critical. She's got to keep it close. Yeah, outside of like the normal things that you would say go into winning a championship, health, you know, some depth on your roster, like all the things that you want to say, you know, a team would kind of need to have. when you get into being on the court, the number one thing you have to have in the playoffs is a dude.

A dude that you could, I've talked about this before, hey man, we're throwing the saddle on his back, and we are all going with him. And, you know, more times than not,

that's going to wind up in, in the winner circle. Having multiple guys that could do that is just like exponentially better. So, yeah, like you could script defensively in the playoffs you could script what you want to do defensively

and take away a team's offensive tendencies and really drill down on what they want to do in the playoffs better the time constraints aren't on you in terms of playing in different cities four games and seven nights you can really sit down you're going to play the same team over and over again you get a look at what they did in game one we're taking that away in game two like all of those things I think shift to advantage defense a little bit in the playoffs

but there are dudes in this league and the guy you're talking about Logan, they go above X's and O's. It doesn't matter what you do. It didn't matter what I did to Kobe on certain nights. I could execute every, no, I mean this. I could execute every single thing that I would have put on a checklist that I needed to execute to be successful. I could get nine out of ten of those right on a play, 10 out of 10 on some plays.

And he's still too good to stop him for making that shot. Did you see him against Houston when Katie was like draped all over him? And he said, I don't give a fuck. and I'm just going to throw it up from the wing and I'm going to end this game. When cats like that get to cooking, you know, it's an absolute problem. So you are right.

Why I said, you know, there are a few reasons why San Antonio and OKC specifically, why I'd have the Lakers, you know, slightly behind them in terms of who I'd favor to win the Western Conference. And a lot of it relies on the bodies, like I said, when Howard was making his point, that they could throw at Aluca.

You know, both of those teams have multiple pieces defensively that they can really rotate through and just try to stay on top of them because what you want to do to a guy like that is make those efforts Herculian for him where he's got to like really be digging down deep and expending a lot of energy to have to pull that game two out.

And then we're coming back at him in game three and hope that we're getting into his legs a little bit because I'm throwing multiple bodies at him. Both of those teams can do that in that way. And then the LeBron of it all is I've seen over the last couple years, I think you guys would agree. Like when you stretch him out in a series, it becomes almost every other night.

So you could pencil in a few nights at his age where he might just not have the juice. But, you know, to answer your question, Logan, having a star that can go just completely black out, you can't guard me in a game. It's like it's the biggest advantage you can have. It's like, you know, people talk about Golden State, why they went to get KD.

It's a guy that you could give the ball to and just get out of his way. And they were already a championship team. But that's a luxury everyone wants. Let's stay on LeBron really quickly. Went 13 to 14 against Houston. I'm not sure of his he had a triple double last night. I'm not sure of his shooting stats, but he had a triple double last night in Miami. Can we talk about just how his transition Howard this season where he is just trying to kind of figure out his role within this coming off of

injury coming off of, you know, all of the talk about where he's going to go next year, right? How do you, how have you seen him kind of come into the fold right now? Like, what has been impressed you the most about this version of LeBron over the last two weeks? And what does that mean for the foreseeable future? Eight for 12, triple double. Incredible. And there was, like, his last two games have been just fucking ridiculous for, like,

like five or six dunks a couple nights ago. Um, it was like his most dunk in the game. Did you see the one where Marcus lost through that bullshit up and he came from behind? Dude. Ah. What the? I mean,

insane. He's 41. Jesus. It, it, like he is, he is an absolute just fucking marvel. Like,

he is inexplicable. He is incredible. Um, I'm not surprised about what LeBron's necessarily doing physically just because we hadn't seen much sign of him slowing down the last few years. We've seen him get hurt. hurt more often and it takes longer to get back. But like when he's actually playing, he still looks like him. And so because of that, I think the question coming into this season, his first

full season with Luca was going to be, and I wrote about this back in, I don't know, October, November, like, is LeBron willing to make the shift that Kareem once did, right? And lo and behold, here we are. He has absolutely done that. If you watch the way the Lakers are playing, Luca is absolutely controlling almost every possession that they are out there together for. LeBron is playing off the ball, way more than he ever has in his career. And that dude is so freaking dangerous anywhere on the court, on the ball or off the ball, as a slasher, as a screen setter, as whatever he wants to be. And in the open floor, too, clearly, like, do not get in front of that guy. So, like, I'm not surprised in that regard, but he has made it seem so seamless.

It's funny because I don't feel like it was ever really talked about or written about that much out in L.A. this year. It, you know, it did just kind of happen. But he's made that transition. Real quick, the last 12 games during which they've won this 11 of 12, Luke is averaging 36, 8 rebounds and 7 assists, 41% on threes, and on high volume. He's making like 5 of 13 threes per game. um lebron is averaging 21 6 and 6 in that same time so like for by lebron's historic standards 21 6 and 6 is pretty tame but by like human standards that's that's a fucking career year for most of the league um and he's shooting 44% on threes in that time lower volume um and taking just 13 shots a game

lebron james 13 shots a game that is modest as heck but like like he is the if he's a role player now and i hesitate to even use that term because it sounds insulting when used to apply to LeBron even at 41. But if he's a role player right now, he's the greatest fucking role player you'll ever find. And during this whole time, by the way, just to finish this off, Austin Reeves averaging 24 and 5, shooting only 35% on threes, whatever, but 47% overall. And DeAndre Aidan, who you mentioned earlier. Great sit down interview with Dan Weike at The Athletic recently talking about, you know,

I've looked in the mirror and I've decided, you know what, I need to just be the best version of what I can be as a role player on this team. Stop thinking of yourself as a former number one pick who's supposed to do all this other stuff. Like, he's not making Clint Capella jokes anymore, although his team did just beat Clint Capella's team twice in a row. Like, it's remarkable what they have done. I don't, again, what's the ceiling? Who knows? But to the LeBron of it all, Logan, this is exactly. this is a best case scenario.

This is exactly the ideal. This is the ideal of what you wanted in a world where Luca has come in and become the new number one. And LeBron is at the tail end of his career and you just want to get the best supporting version of him. And on some nights, that's still dominant as hell. But this is absolutely the ideal. And it does make you wonder as we come down the stretch run here, huh, maybe he doesn't need to move on. Maybe he's not. Hey, watch out, clear out, clear out, clear out.

Because I have a PSA real quick. I have a PSA real quick. I knew you were going to go there, but I've learned my lesson, and I'm going to make my point really quickly. LeBron, stay in Los Angeles, bro. There's no reason for you to come up here to the Bay Area where you're going to be gloomy. It's going to be a whole bunch of sad boys.

You're going to lose a lot of games. Cleveland, you're not going to win a championship there, bro. Just take the mid-level or take a vet minimum. You know the team next year. And come back to L.A. This is your best chance and your best chance to get both what you want in terms of a going away tour. You're going to get celebrated. Nobody celebrates like the Lakers. And then you're actually going to be competing with something for something with the top five

player in the league. Okay. Just stay in the Lakers. Stay in Los Angeles. And you can just live in LA. Like, why not? It's a no-brainer here. Okay, I know everybody's in their feelings and stuff about leaving and everything. But the best place for you to be is in Los Angeles. Okay, go ahead, Howard. Sorry. LeBron should play wherever he wants to play or retire if he wants to retire. I don't care. But I think what we're seeing from the Lakers right now certainly bolsters the idea, which I think everybody was rightfully skeptical of by last summer, that maybe this is where he can comfortably finish his career. There was at least some question of that legitimately, and a large part because his agent, Rich Paul, issued that long statement, June 30th,

July 1st, whatever it was, talking about, you know, like the contract situation. and, you know, who's this team being built for? Is it long term for Luca? Or is it short term for LeBron, blah, blah, blah. Like, there were very good reasons to think that this was the end. LeBron opting into the final year of his deal and no extension on the table. You know what if I do think, I do think now the way that they're finishing here and pending the playoffs, it, it, this is, this is the most encouraged.

I think anybody could be if you hoped for a LeBron conclusion with the Lakers. Yeah. I feel like... Go ahead, go ahead, Logan. Go ahead. I feel like with that letter, we'll see how it goes. But it felt like when you read it and everything you know about Rich Paul and Clutch and LeBron, it felt like we just want to feel like we matter here still.

You know, when you have to lash out, you know, we've all been there. When you have to lash out and the other reasons, like, I just don't know if I, I don't know if I matter in this situation anymore. and I have to just lash out real quick and just go to old tactics so you just remember who I am. It felt like that. And if he stays,

I think history will look at it like, oh, they had a little tipper tantrum and that's what it was. And we'll go from there. But I just think that the logical play here is just to stay, man. Like you know the team, you know the coach,

you don't have to go to a new situation. Your family loves it there. I feel like if he leaves, it would be an emotional response. to something and not necessarily a logical response to the change of the guard. What you can't quantify and what nobody knows is how he really feels about what he's being asked to do. Like you don't, you don't know that, right? Like he, and I don't think he gets enough credit for it, has been remarkable.

Not just figuring out how to be that all-time great role player that Howard just kind of talked about, but that's the physical part of it. The emotional maturity, the we before me attitude that it takes for someone like LeBron James, that's a goat conversation type of player. Like, you know, if memory serves me correctly, you know, MJ wasn't super interested in that. Like when MJ was late in his career, it was still revolving around MJ, right? Like, is that, right? Howard, you'd remember that in a way that I would too, right?

what it takes to be able to sacrifice in that way for the team to thrive. I mean, I think he should be getting more credit. LeBron, that is, than he actually is because that is a really, really tough thing to ask someone to do. And he's handled it great. I think JJ Reddick's got to get a ton of credit too. Like, I didn't give him a shout out yet for the management of this whole situation from where he was to from where they were personnel-wise and role-wise to where they are now

and how that picture has seemed to kind of crystallize and like clear up for them. But what I just wanted to say again, Logan, like you're not, while he has put on a great outward facing like, you know, appearance about this, what you don't know is the conversation being had

around the kitchen table, right? And if that isn't the same as the face we're seeing, I'm not saying that it is or isn't. But if it isn't, then, you know, you could still make a case for maybe it would feel better to him doing that somewhere else.

I don't know. Yeah. One last thing I want to ask, this is more of a strategy question. And it ties back to the uncertainty of what the Lakers are going to be. I don't know if you saw, Roger, the way Houston was trying to attack the Lakers late in that game, both games, actually, where they try to attack the middle and they have a big, either Kevin or Jabari, They go to the free throw line and they try to work action out of the free throw line to attack the Lakers Biggs and make them collapse and try to get open corner threes. That was an M.A. Udoka.

It seemed like it was a strategy pool, right? And it seemed to be successful until it wasn't more so because of, I think, Houston's hubris where they would just not make the right pass, but all the right passes were there. Do you think that might be an, like, is that something that we should look at and how teams, are going to start trying to attack the Lakers bigs. Because if there is a weakness that the Lakers have, it is definitely in the front court with their two bigs. How do they, if that is an anecdote, how do the Lakers overcome that?

Yeah, I don't know. And I didn't see, I didn't watch that game. There was, there's a lot going on at the crib. So I can't speak specifically to the way Houston was attacking them in that game. You know, defensively, I mean, you're only as good as like your personnel sometimes defensively, right? So like if you're just a smaller team and you don't have a stable of bigs, you know, there's only but so much you can do.

But defensively, I think if you stay multiple as like a JJ Redick and his staff and you're giving teams different looks and you're cycling in a way that keep, not only the body is fresh, but the mental engagement defensively fresh, and guys aren't falling asleep at the wheel in terms of what you're asking them to do. You're challenging them. You know, I think you can overcome some of the obstacles that you might have from a personnel standpoint or from a physical standpoint. They just have to be willing to be creative and be multiple, right?

If you're giving somebody that same look over and over and you're exposing that particular weakness and the team that you're exposing it to has someone that can really make you pay in that way and pay for having that weakness, well, then you're in trouble. But, you know, if you can, if you have the flexibility as a staff and as like a, you know, kind of team where you can get in and out of stuff and throw different looks at people, I think, I think you'll be okay. But, you know, if we're being honest, like the Lakers, I talked about how much better they're playing defensively, Howard talked about how much better they're playing defensively. But I wouldn't look at their backcourt and think they were a juggernaut defensively either. Like, there are multiple people that if,

you know, I was coaching a team, I'd be like, hey, we're going to. try to iso that. So I could probably count on less than one hand how many defenders that I think that they have on there. I say this to make a positive point about them. When they're bought in and they're all defending and the mindset is we need to defend, you can overcome some of the shortcomings there, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. All right. We'll say a quick break. Talk about injuries. Okay. And we are back. Okay, there's two big injuries, two big injuries that have happened over the last couple of days.

I want to analyze both of them. We'll start with, first we're going to talk about Janus, then we're going to talk about a little about Cade, which is, I think, even more sad for what's going on right now with the Pistons. But let's start off with Janice that did a cumber who has been diagnosed with a hyper-extended left knee and a bone bruise. It's supposed to be reevaluated within a week. And there's been some reporting that has come out that Janus and the bucks are kind of clashing on if Janus can come back this season. they are out of playoff contention.

Bextradamus said, just predicted all of this about a month ago. Where do the bucks, I'll start with Howard. Where do the bucks go from here? And where does Janus go from here at this point? And this was inevitable, right? This clash of both sides was inevitable. So what do we go from here? Yeah, I mean, look, Janus wanted out at the trade deadline.

Did he? Did he went out? Are we sure? He wouldn't say it publicly, but I am very, very confident he made that clear privately. And two things were flagged to me at that time, that if he didn't get traded, that was potentially going to be a problem. But also that if he didn't get traded and the buck started fading from the playoff race and asked him to shut it down, that would be a problem.

And that's the part that is now coming to pass here where, like, they're done. They're just, they are done. They are not getting back into the play-in race. Janus or no, Janus. And so this is the logical place where, especially if you're a team that has a lot at stake with the lottery, which the Bucks do, because their pick and the Pelicans pick are tied together.

The better of those two picks goes to the Hawks. And the Bucks, you know, stick with the other one. So, you know, the Pelicans have been playing better of late, winning a lot more games. There's still a pretty big gap there. But still, it is in the Bucks' best interest. to not risk Janus's health further, and it's in their best interest to not win any more games

or to win as few as possible. And Janus being Janus does not want to be shut down. So here we are. Yet another tension point in this relationship that has just been adding tension point after tension point for however many months. On top of all that, Wes Edens, who is one of the co-owners and at this moment,

they have this rotating weird thing where one of the co-owners rotates into a five-year stretch as the governor of the team. So that was Mark Lazary for a while before he sold to Haslam. Now, right now it's Wes Edens. Wes Edens gave an interview to our buddy

Ramona Shelburne to the ESPN and said the obvious, but the fact that he said it out loud is still significant. Quote, Janus is going to the last year of his contract, of course. So one of two things will happen, Eden says.

Either he will be extended or he'll be traded. the likelihood that you just kind of let him play out the last year, we can't afford that. It's not consistent with what's good for the organization. That's not a Janus issue. That's any player that's in their last year. So just noting that off to the side here because it is laying out what we all knew to be the case anyway, that if Janus turned down extension offers from the bucks in the off season, that's it. He's getting traded.

I think he's getting traded regardless. But again, as they have this little dance where it's like, does he want to stay? does he want to go? How badly does he want to leave? The bucks won't trade him unless there's an absolute clear, you know, directive from Yon. That's because you don't just voluntarily trade a player that caliber. I mean, he's getting traded, I think, regardless. But anyway, interesting to hear Edens say that out loud. Can you take us behind the psychology of this, Roger? Because I mean, I'm dealing with this with Max Crosby with the Raiders, right, where they were basically in a similar situation

down the stretch of that season. And it was a knee injury. It was meniscus. The Raiders was like, no, we shut it down. We don't need to win no more. And you were going to get surgery. And it basically caused an impasse.

And, you know, everything else happened with the trade in Baltimore. We don't need to get it. My heart is already broken. But what is the psychology of a player when you're like, no, bro, you need to sit this out for everybody's best interest? And then the player who's obviously wired to be like, what are you talking about? How do you square that?

Yeah, look, I don't know how you square that with a guy like Max Crosby or Yonis. There are players that would happily say, okay, I'm good. Like, cut me to check for the last, I don't know, 15 games or so, I'll sit down. Those two aren't wired like that.

So I don't know how you square that. with them. It's just a really, it's, it's, it's a point of no return with guys like that when, when,

emotionally, there might be contractual reasons why that guy has to play for you again. And, you know, that you've got to honor his contract. He's got to make the money. So you got to roll him out there.

But the love that you had for that organization, like, do you know what I mean? Like, there's, there's sometimes points with people, that you love in your life, that they do something and it's, you'll still be, you'll still see them, you'll still hang out, you just don't love them like that anymore.

Yeah. That's where there, that's where that is. That's, that's the point where an organization is with Janus. If you ask someone like Janus to sit down and not play, that's over. The relationship is done. Then it's just a matter of whether to Howard's point you trade him or, or how, it works out. But even if he plays for you again, for some reason, there's no love there. And it always brings me back to like lessons learned as a player. You know, one of them that most guys learned the hard way, especially if you were, you know, journeyman type of player or a role guy is,

you know, you get brainwashed. It happens at every level. It happens in college too. It happens in high school. Like coaches and organizations will try to brainwash you. Do what's best for this team. This team is like there's so much of that that gets preached. And that's the culture that we actually teach.

and then when it's not convenient for the team and you are the one that has to be like chopped or let go or whatever you come to realize very very quick that they did not love you like they said they loved you they wanted you to love them in that way and they didn't love you like that and you know that's a tough thing to come to grips with as as a player sometimes right because you know like a janis you've poured everything into that right like you've been there forever you've you've you've you've gone out there probably banged up in in other situations wouldn't even attempt to go play for Milwaukee for the team and at the end of it you're like hey I don't want to sit I want to play like I want to do this and they're like no no no no no no we got to do what's best for Milwaukee so that that point comes for everyone at some time but it's a reality that like a lot of guys learn and and you know quite frankly it's things when you when you're when your eyes are open to that because everything you've been told when you're in an organization from the time you're little is what you should sacrifice to make that better. Yeah.

I'll just say this. Yeah. Rajah, I mean, all that is point taken. And I can't disagree with any of it. But these relationships between superstars and NBA franchises are, are a different animal in that your partners until you're not. And you're doing right by each other until you're not. And they have already reached that crossroads because it's clear to. to Janus that he needs to go somewhere else to win championships and that he can't do it there.

It's clear to the bucks that they can't patch this up. They'll try. If he stood down and said, I'll stay, I'll sign an extension. They'll do everything possible to try to make it work because that's what you do. You don't trade a generational star if you can avoid it. But everybody knows where they stand at this point. He's probably better off somewhere else and they're going to have to just do whatever they can to get the most they can in return for him when they're.

the time comes to trade him. It's in the meantime that is the difficult part, right? Because what's best for Janus and or the bucks right now? I would argue, you may disagree, Raja, I would argue it's in everybody's best interest for Janus to just shut down. I know he doesn't want to. I know he's prideful. I know he's competitive.

I know that even in what looks like a loss season to us, he's going to say, fuck it, put me back out there. Let's at least try to make a run at the 10th spot in the east. Could I just say this though before you finish it? Because this is where I think, this is where we take different paths. Everything you've said is correct. And it's nobody's right to suggest what's right for Janus. Sure.

No one has the right to do that. The organization, me, you. So like, you understand what I'm saying? That's where I is the player. But our job objectively as just analysts here, as commentators, is to say, well, is there, is there an objective truth here about what's best for everybody? Now, no, we're, it's not for us to say what's best for him. Janus, but I can still make the case that what is best for all parties is, if Janus is not playing,

he's getting healthier and is not risking further injury before he gets traded to wherever he's going for next season. Two, if there's any hope of the buck salvaging this era with Janus, it is partially dependent on that draft pick. And losing that pick or having that pick be, they're not going to lose it. They're going to get a pick. It's either their owner or New Orleans is, and the better one is going to go to Atlanta. but like New Orleans, or excuse me, Milwaukee getting the best version of that pick, the highest

version of that pick possible, either gives them a really great piece, a young piece to put next to Janus, or a tradable piece to get him more help. So even in the event that Janus were to stay, that draft pick is key potentially to extending this era. And if you're going to trade him, then obviously it's key to the post-Yonis era because you could get a really good player. And besides that, there is nothing for Janus to gain. Now, Janice doesn't have to buy anything that I just said. And if John Horst or Wes Edens or anybody is saying some version of that case to him, he does not, to your point, Roger, he does not have to buy it.

It's his choice. It's his decision. But with like a dozen games left in a lost season, what is the point of even, you know, drawing a line in the sand and saying, no, I must play these last meaningless games? I don't get it, but it's not for me to get. He's the player. it's his it's his career yeah i agree with you though i mean i'm not disputing any of that what's what's best for the organization for sure is hey sit him down you know try to advance that draft pick up the

board a little bit and see what you know see what you can get out of it where where i just don't think even if objectively it's our job to make that case there's no way that anyone can say what's best for yannis like you just can't do that unless a doctor is saying to him hey if you go out there you know, there is a percent chance that you rupture something or break something. If that's the case, then yeah, they're scientifically speaking and medically, you should not go out there and play. But if Janus is healthy and that's not what's being told to him and he's going to say, I want to play because that's the type of champion I am, this is my profession, you pay me to do this, there's no way, and you might still do it. And everything you said is true, Howard. All of that

can logically make sense. And they might still sit him down despite him, wanting to play. But you don't get to tell Janus, hey, there's nothing for you to gain here. Like, you don't get to tell him that as an organization, as a fan base, as a writer. Like, there's any time we go out there as players, like we are laying something on the line and we are sacrificing something and willing to take some kind of risk. Like, and so you become accustomed to doing that. You become accustomed to like playing through a lot of certain, you know, injuries and and nagging things and what. not. And if he wants to do that and he's earned the right to do that because of what he's put

forth for that organization during his tenure there, I don't think it's fair for anybody to ask him not to do that. I, and like, it's also just not like, you know, it's not an apples to apples thing. But I remember living through a version of this in 2020 when Steph Curry was, he had, he had broken his hand and the warriors were terrible that year. And, um, and, and, he wanted to come back. And this was around, honestly, around this time, a little bit beforehand. And then there was a lot of people in that Warriors organization that did not want him to come back because they wanted the same deal. They wanted to get a lottery pick.

And Stephs, and they had to let Steph play again. The obvious, it was of the different circumstances and I'm going to eventually get this as a question to Howard. But he wound up playing in that season. And if it wasn't for a pandemic, he would have wound up playing the rest of the year and probably fucking up the war. Lawyers' lottery odds going into that. And they wound up getting the second pick, and they wound up getting James Wiseman, and you can relitigate if that was a good or bad thing.

But this leads to the question I have for Howard. Wouldn't have it's been better off if the Bucks just went scorched earth and just said, hey, man, we probably already hit the end of the road and stopped playing middle ground when Yianna's Joe. You're sitting down after the All-Star break, and we're going to trade you. So that's just going to be what it is. And it seems like them playing the middle kind of fuck them up in the long run.

Because if they're not, if they're good, they should just make a decision that, hey, we're going to trade you and let's move on. Right. Now we're in this impasse. What would have been a better decision than that wouldn't have gotten to us to this point right now? Well, they were acting their own best interests at the trade deadline, as they are obligated to do by saying, we don't have the right deal, so we're not doing this right now. Sure.

This could have been resolved by trading at the trade deadline. and there would be no issue right now. But you don't do it just to do the deal. You do it when you have the right deal. And I've said all along, I thought the best deal was going to come this summer and we'll see if that happens. But they're here.

They're here. And like, yeah, at some point it may just be them having to say, you know what, sorry, we're just not going to play you. And we've got enough on the medical side to justify it. If anybody comes calling, if Janus decides to file a, a grievance through the union, which is an option, then you've got that to deal with. Do you want to escalate it to that point on either side, right?

Do you want this to become an actual conflict? No. Yeah, probably not in anybody's best interest, right? So you start drawing lines of the sand, you start getting the union involved or you start getting the league office involved. It gets uglier. So like there's, like, I don't, I don't think you can just dictate it. and what you would what you would hope for is that as the last bit of the partnership in action here

would be the club and Janus agreeing that it's in everybody's best interest for him not to play. But you can't get there if he does not actually agree. I mean, but like that's there's the thing that works out for everybody. If he agrees that you know what, you're right, seasons lost. Yeah. But if he doesn't agree and he doesn't seem to, then, you know, now you're, now you're drawing lines in the sand. Now you're saying sorry, but we're doing it anyway. We're just not playing you. And now he's maybe filing a grievance and it gets ugly. That would suck. I'd hate to see that. And they might just shut him down. They have to, I mean, but this is the point I made a few minutes ago about a player realizing whenever it happens, you're usually, it's going to hit you that they don't love you. And you said it's a partnership, Howard, but. it doesn't ever really seem 50-50, right? He also says it is until it isn't. It is until it isn't, right?

But hear me, if I'm not mistaken, like Janus, even in the playoffs a few years ago, didn't something happen to Janus where he was, where he was like, the first round against Indiana. Right, came back. It was a calf strain. I don't know who was.

I came back, though, didn't he? He'd come back and play. I don't remember. He had a few moments over the last few years where I remember. I think one of them was in the bubble, too, where like he had some tough balls and some stuff where you're probably sitting around as an organization looking at yourself in the playoffs while you can't probably legally coerce him into

playing you're hoping and praying that he will make the decision to even at 75% go out there and play basketball for you like that's what you're you're like man please but you're going to bed at night hoping that Janus wakes up and says he wants to hoop in these playoffs and as a player, when you make that call and you know that you have people depending on you like that, and you know that you could let them down if you don't play, you're like, I'm going to suck this up and play through this bullshit and go lay it out on the line. That's the way you show them, you love them, right? That's the way you show them, you love them. And it's good for them at that point, right? It makes sense for them at that point. Like they want you to do it. And so on the

the flip side of that, you get to this point. And that's what you know, hey, I'm going to go out there and play. And what you know from the team historically is like they want me to play, even if I'm not. And now all of a sudden it's, hey, don't play. We won't let you play. My point is just this, Howard, whether it's right or wrong. That point for a player is a very, very stinging realization that it has come to the point where like, hey, man, they, you know, all of that is in the past and they don't, it's just not the same anymore, you know? Can I end on a snarky note here? Yeah, go ahead. The good news is even if he plays, they still suck.

They're going to lose a ton of games anyway. Hey, hey, hey, hey, don't disrespect. They went nine and one without him, Howard. So some respect. Jesus Christ. I actually hope he just shuts it down. I'm with you, Howard. I mean, I hope he just says, hey, look, man, like I, I'm going to roll into the end of the.

If he makes that call, listen, I'm a thousand percent with it. Where I kind of get in my feelings a little bit is when you're just going to mandate that he doesn't play. You know what I mean? Yeah. All right, let's, before we get out of here, let's talk a little Cade. Collapse lung, every time just reading collapsed lung, and I'm just like, oh, right? The play didn't even look, the play that I saw where it supposedly happened didn't even look, it didn't even seem that bad. Like, it was really strange.

Anyway, sorry. Yeah. Anyway, it's all good. He's going to be revaluated in two weeks the team announced sucks because he, by all likelihood will be out of awards contention. which is a killer. Fuck the 65 game rule. There we go. The Pistons have been five and two this season in games without him.

And they have the 15th hardest schedule going forward. They have the Lakers next week. They have the Warriors tonight. The Lakers next week is probably the hottest team in the league. And they have the Hawks. But they have some tanking teams in there. So they could be good. But the question that I have is,

the best case scenario here, Howard, and what's the worst case scenario for this team? Man. So real quick. So Jeff Stats, who does in street close, the injury, all the injury analysis, average time lost to a collapse lung by NBA players, and there aren't a ton of these. The average time lost in the past has been 26 days, which is about 11 games. So if that's the, Gerald Wallace. We're about a month out, too, by the way, to the playoffs.

So he's saying 26 days, and there's only about 23 left in the season. So this could be, we may not see Kate again until the first round of the playoffs. And even that, you know, you're hoping he's backed by game one of the first round. If that happens, yeah. He's out of awards running. He's not in his best shape. He'll have been out for, you know, three to four weeks. Pistons were already kind of dragging.

They were five and five in their last 10. And some of that was because Cade was banged up with other stuff. But this also for the short term exacerbates the thing that we've all been flagging all season as their biggest which is they just don't have shot creation and scoring when Kate is not on the floor. You know, shout out Dennis Jenkins, who's had like this awesome season, breakout season, but like that's a lot to put on him. There's just not a lot there. So there's an outside chance here that Boston now overtakes them for number one seed in the east.

It's a lot of ground to make up, but it could happen. And so, yeah, worst case scenario, Boston get, you know, overtakes them for number one seed. Cade misses the rest of the regular season and maybe even part of the first round. Pistons get bounced in the first round. There's your worst case scenario. Best case scenario, you know, seeding or no seating. Cade's back in time to still make an impact in the first round.

They at least win their first round series and he's back up, you know, to 100% by the time they reach the second round, at which point they're going to be facing a tough team regardless. So, you know, for a Pistons team and a. season that was like such a like a fun you know breakthrough where you know they went from dark horse to like surprise number one seed for almost the entire season and to this now at the end it's just it's just a serious bummer and you know hopefully he's back sooner than later and and this ends up just being a blip what are you looking for for the pistons without cade right now what do you want to see roger oh i thought you were saying what are you looking for right now because

Kentucky's losing to Santa Clara with 47 seconds. It's about that time with a podcast right now, ladies. Kentucky is down too, going into half. What was the question? What am I looking for with Cade? Was that the question? What are you looking for from the Pistons now that Cade is out? I mean, just hold the fort down, man.

Keep your head above water if you can. You know, like don't completely fall asleep. That's a tall, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, big order to ask a team that doesn't have a ton of, to Howard's Point Shot Creation, playmaking, to survive without, like, their primary guy in that way. So, you know, just stay stable until you can get him back. It was, it was heartbreaking to hear my son.

I was coming back from a workout with Ty, and he read it to me, you know, as I was driving. And I was just heartbroken for them. Because that, for me, like, you know, they already had some real flaws, but, but, you know, I put them in a really tough spot. Like when he comes back, now you're talking about when he comes back,

to Howard's point, if you're missing a game or two in the playoffs, but now we're talking about getting back in shape. Along as, along, I couldn't imagine, I've never heard or had a teammate, like have a lung issue,

but I imagine it's pretty hard to get, you know, with the Jason Tatum, at least you're kind of rehabbing. Do you know what I mean? Like, and you're working out and you're progressing towards something. Like with the lung with breathing issues,

like I don't know when you're allowed to start actually exercising with that lung again. So I imagine when he comes back, he's going to have some work to do to get even back to, you know, shape and form that would allow them to kind of hit their stride again. So like it was just a derailing injury. And I felt terrible when I heard the news. What they can do in his absence,

I mean, just don't fall apart is what I'd be asking. Like we're, so late, that might be the blessing in it. Like, it's so. late, you know, you just keep your head above water. I don't know. That's not a great answer, but it was a terrible, terrible news. One thing that's even more terrible that I heard, I just found this out. Apparently you can't fly when you have a collapsed lung, so you got to drive.

Driving from D.C. to Detroit isn't the worst, but I was listening to Brian Winhorse on Rich Eisen's show, and he told a story about how Gerald Wallace had a collapsed lung. Were you on that team? I don't know if you were on that team. Were you on that team? I remember it, but I wasn't on the team, though. Gerald Wallace was on the Bobcats. Apparently they played the Lakers or the Clippers, but they were in L.A. And he had a collapsed lung, had to get a sprinter to drive him back to Charlotte because they couldn't, they couldn't fly him on a plane. That's tough.

Terrible. Oh, God. Yeah, I hope it all works out. Pistons are one of my favorite stories of the season. All right. It's time for Real One of the Week. Howard is the most prepared so Howard can go first. They go H-back.

I've gone from Logan Hasingby for allegedly not wanting to do a real one of the week or not getting it or whatever to Logan now accusing you. You've been in Hahr long enough to not be acting brand new about what this show is like. We fuck it with each other all the time for absolutely no reason. You know what Roger's love language is, right? Fuck you, man. That's literally how he says I love you. Go fuck yourself.

see the best i love you guys um there's nothing like there's nothing like uh for the for the listeners who uh do not get the joy of this particular part of the show that after the cameras have stopped rolling after everybody has hit stop the double bird quadruple bird really of raja and logan signing off to each other hey raja phenomenal it's great stuff there we go it looks like that it looks like that no doubt um i'm going a little different direction here with real one of the week uh this week it's maybe expanding the definition which seems like it's just whatever the fuck we want to say

anyway right logan um yeah that's the rules or there are no rules um there's a lot of of uh just bad news all the time in the media industry in the journalism industry so i want to shout out to buddies who uh both posted phenomenal news this morning on the social media channels. Jeff Zilgit, who was at USA Today for 30-something years, great NBA writer, wonderful person, not to mention the foremost authority on where to eat in every NBA city. Jeff had stepped down, took a buyout from USA Today before the season. This was his first year not covering the NBA forever. He just announced he will be writing as a special contributor for NBA.com. So congrats Jeff Zilgit. Love seeing you back, my friend, and can't wait to see him on the road.

And the other is my former colleague from Sports Illustrated and most recently at ESPN, Chris Herring has announced that he's accepted an offer to join Northwestern's Medill School of Journalism as a senior lecturer full time. And he had taught there before. So he's saying excited to be back there, you know, more fully. Thrilled for Chris to be back teaching again. He's got a book he's working on on the heat, the heatels era as well. So congrats to Chris Herring and Jeff Zilgett. Just phenomenal news at a time and in an industry where we don't get to celebrate the good news often enough. I just want to say.

I just want to echo that shout out. Zilgit put me in my first ever podcast, him and Sam Amick like in 2013. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I even forgot what it was about. But I remember when they asked me my opinion and I said, uh, yeah. and that was that was my podcasting debut so shout out to zilgit and i just want to also say for uh mr herring one of the like my favorite writer one of the great writers of great dude generation and a great dude but like somebody that can marry analytics with storytelling

he's one of the best to ever do that in my opinion there's not a lot of people that can do both you can either do one of the other and to be able to bridge that gap is really special and he's one of my favorites. Is he still writing or is he done now? Is he not at ESPN anymore? Has not been writing for them recently.

Yeah, for a minute. Yeah, no. Okay, all right. Well, in that case, I'm sad. I'm just going to deep dive of... I'm choosing to focus on the positive today. I know, I know, I know, I know. I hope he does remandest up or something, man.

I love his writing. Anyway, I go to my room of the week. Victor Wimbunyama. bro, what a fucking shot last night to beat the Sons. Sorry, sorry, Roger. I know you really don't give a fuck. You really don't care. That was fake.

Not only beat the Sons, but clinched the Spurs' first postseason birth since 2019. And God, I fall in love with the Spurs team and just watching them over this season. Definitely ahead of schedule. But honestly, ahead of schedule is a new right-on schedule because you want to win as fast as possible. You don't have time to wait, but what Victor is done, what Coach Ms. Johnson has done, what the Spurs have done as a staff record label and motherfucking crew. I'm just really happy for it. And this is just kind of the icing on the cake.

So, Dr. Victor, Women, Yama, shout out to the Spurs. Shout out to the NBA for getting like a new it team. So, you know, all of the above. Roger Bell. Who you got? Yeah, and to keep it NCAA March Madness themed, as we just talked. talked about Kentucky being down. All the teams yesterday, all those underdogs, that won, right?

You had High Point, 12-5 beat Wisconsin, big win. You had VCU, my buddies, Phil Jr. and Jimmy Martelli, beat North Carolina, 8278 and O.T. Texas, Sean Miller and staff, 11 over 6, beat BYU, Texas A&M, Frank Hath and the boys out there, 107, beat St. Mary. St. Louis, 9, 8 over Georgia. No, it was a 10 seed and a 7 seed. Oh, okay. St. Louis, a 9 seed beating Georgia in 8 seed. And then, like, all of them, like that's just a magical time of year.

And, you know, I always pull for the underdogs in those. And one that almost happened that didn't happen. And I'm going to give a shout out. And I think he really is the real one because they had every opportunity to win this game and they didn't win it. Jerry McNamara and Sienna was leading for a long time against Duke, had them in a deep hole, couldn't hold on. But I thought it was a real one for the way he had those dudes prepared

and the way they were rocking out and his team as well. So all the underdogs that won, and a special shout out to one that did in Siena. Look at Rogers just contributing to 100% of the college basketball coverage on this podcast. There you go. All right, man. Shout out to all the little hummies.

That has been another edition of Real Ones. We'll see you guys on Tuesday. Make sure you tap in RealWilWest mailback at gmail.com. Real onesmail back at what, Raja? Gmail.mell.com. God damn right. We'll see you guys next week. I all the shits.

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