The Ringer NBA Show - LaVine Gets Paid, Kawhi Trade Possibilities, and Summer League Takeaways | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 299)

Episode Date: July 7, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan is joined by Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks to discuss the free agency signings of the weekend thus far (0:11) and takeaways from day 1 of NBA Summer League in Las Vegas (13:29). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. My name is Chris Ryan. I am joined today by Kevin O'Connor. What up? And Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? For a Saturday Vegas brunch pot. Yes.

Fastball never sleeps. Yeah, well, we had some interesting free agency activity towards the end of the day yesterday on Friday. Jonas Drebko is now on the Warriors as of Saturday morning. So we're going to talk a little free agency. We're going to talk a little summer league. Maybe we'll talk a little Bjork.

Favorite Bjork songs? Licky Lee, too. But guys, I'm just the driver. I'm passing you the ox court. So which one of these free agency moves was the most compelling from yesterday? Or just taking Zach Levine, Kyle Anderson, nerve-tricity. It's exactly interesting. It's Zach Levine to me because I knew the Kings liked him,

and I knew that they were probably going to make him an offer sheet at some point, but I thought the restricted free agents lost enough leverage where they wouldn't be giving four years 20 per, but that's exactly what they did. And Bulls match pretty much immediately. It was just an odd couple of hours for a guy who can score but not do a lot else. Clearly, those teams values Zach Levine more than, like, the average Twitter-Rot. The 98% of Americans.

And with Levine, like, I don't know how you felt about him in the draft charts, but with Levine, I didn't like him at all. I had him ranked, like, in the 30s. And he's really exceeded my expectations. And I still don't like him. But I, you know, admit I was wrong about him. And maybe I'll continue to be wrong about him. And the Bulls will look smart for matching.

That's interesting because we're coming from opposite ends. I actually had Levine ahead of Wiggins that year. Oh, wow. But now, like, Levine Nitty isn't quite that good. I like him a lot, though. But are we using Wiggins still as the, measuring point. I'm not trying to sing all that much.

Wait, you're in head of Wiggins? I did. What? Oh my God. I liked him. It's amazing. Zach Levine to me is a little bit like a pick that hasn't been made yet.

It's like having the first round pick is valuable. But once it becomes Zach Levine, it's not like his potential is very interesting. But what we've seen so far hardly seems to warrant 20 million a year. Like what else would Chicago do with their money? Well, here's my question also is that why do we go through this dance where the, where Zach Levine is out there on Twitter for an hour being like, well, the Kings wanted me. First off, that was hilarious. He'd clap back at that.

Bulls report. Yeah. He's like four for 60, not bro. I'm making way more money than that. That's hilarious. It's almost like he knew the whole time. To me,

like, well, of course he knew. Well, of course he knew. Well, with Levine, like, to me, he's like the anti- Michael Carter Williams, where he's like, Carter Williams is all defense, nothing else.

Carter Williams is all defense, nothing else. Levine is, you know, just shooting and not, and athleticism and not a lot else. I think about. This proves that getting buckets gets you paid. Clint Capella has not gotten paid yet.

We'll see what he gets paid though. What's up with that? What's up with Clint? Because he had sent like a kind of cryptic tweet the other day. He wants to get paid. They're not paying him. It's pretty simple. They're just waiting him out, right?

It's the same thing like with Houston and Capella, Boston and Marcus Smart. What's the point of giving this guy the money that he actually deserves when nobody else can make them off sheet the much? I'm saying, Kevin, put yourself in his shoes. Oh, I get it. I get it. He also probably sees himself as a pretty like integral part of that. Yeah. I'm the guy.

I'd beat Towns in the playoffs. I'd beat Gober in the playoffs. I didn't get paid. Mike Dantone, when I interviewed him in 2016 for an article we ran in January 2017, he said to me, he's like, the center is the second most important position on the floor behind point guard because of... In his system, for sure. And his system, how important they are defensively. Really, you know, locking down the pain and everything else, they need to be able to switch like Capella does.

And then offense, rim running down on transition, rolling down the lane and pick and roll to suck in defenses to open up shooters. Capella is an important player on that team. You know what's interesting. So last year in Dallas, Nerlin was paying for a contract. and they were kind of like, yo, Norland's, you got to play a Klincapella role. Norman's like, no, I want to get paid.

I got to do all this extra things. So what were the extra things that Nirlis thought he was doing? Like freelancing on offense, freelancing on defense. Hot dogs. Because he wouldn't stick to his role, basically.

They're like, we don't want you to touch the ball, just catch and dunk, play your role, don't chase for steals. But he's like, I got to get paid. I got to do all this stuff. Do you think that he'll do something similar with the Thunder this year? Because he was one of the under the radar sidings

of this week? I mean, he'll play for them. But do you think he'll do the things that they need him to do? Or do you think he's still playing? He's going to be. I think they told him, like, if you want to come here, this is how it's going to have to be. I think he knows now. Okay.

I do. Yeah. I mean, he got humbled by the free agency. It's a good situation for him. Okay. So we got, we got Zach Levine, obviously, going back to the Bulls. But what do you think of Nirkich going back to the Blazers? Another overpay.

Yeah. In my opinion, again, like another team, it feels like they didn't need to give that money. I mean, if I were Portland, it might sound silly, but I would rather have had Ed Davis. No, I'm the same way. I'm with you. I think Damien Liller might agree with you. For sure. And I mean, look, Nurkich, I mean, again, like opposite of lien, he was a guy really liked in the draft.

And, I mean, he's panned out. He's been pretty good. But I don't know if he's necessarily a winning player. Defense is so inconsistent. Offense is inconsistent. I mean, was Davis better last year, you think? I mean, he played a more limited role. So maybe if you, you know, extrapolate that out to Nurkich's minutes, he wouldn't.

But I think Ed Davis does. Per minute, you know, the defense, the rim running. Because, I mean, he closed games, right? And he's closing games. I think it's a shame to Davis. hasn't be able to find like a consistent home. Yeah. Like he's changed teams virtually over every season.

I think that just tells you how like big men sometimes it's hard to find, you know, contracts to these guys. So many of them floating around out there. Yeah, but I mean, the weird thing with the Nurchage deal is it almost feels like it has, it's like an affirmation of the trade that Olshe made in the first place. Which is always, I mean, like psychology is important with these kinds of things. Yeah.

Like it feels like he's like, I'm not going to let this guy walk. It's like with the Bulls and Levine. Like they traded Jane Buller for this guy. I can't let him walk. It looks so terrible. Yeah. Also, I mean, to be fair to Chicago, like he's still super young. And like I said earlier, maybe he continues to exceed my personal expectations for him.

And he's so young that you can still flip him if it turns out. You know what? I mean, you can always train to the Kings, right? Clearly they like him. I mean, that's what happened with Alan Crabb. Portland match. Then a year later, he was trained to Benet's. Did they get a pick out of it or something?

Yeah, there's not a lot, but they got something out of it. And that's what it could eventually happen with the deal. And I think, too, you want to maximize your assets if you're a building team. Sure. Right. What else are you going to do in Chicago? Like, lose even more games? No, they're probably feeling like they want to get towards, like, they want to make a run

towards the playoffs now. So for Kyle Anderson, who is a player that I really, really love as like a cult hero kind of guy. He's very cult hero for sure. Yeah, like his nickname is Slowbo. He has to be a refined basketball fan. His nickname is Slowmo.

Slowmo is one of the best nicknames in the game. It's awesome. You don't get nicknames like Slow Mo anymore. Like, because that's like... Oh, you know what's funny? I actually saw him on my honeymoon in Cancun. We were at the same resort. What was he?

He was just hanging out? Yeah, we were walking by the beat. I saw him. Solo or is he had a crew? He had to grow with him. Okay. Shout out to Slowmo. and he is a playmaker.

He has got a little bit of defensive ability. He can handle the ball some. What do you think he fits like in Memphis? I mean, they need wings. They have nothing right now. I think they're like they got to get wings to compete now. Who else is going to be their starting three if it's not him? Look, Kyle Anderson, I thought he dropped him with the perfect situation.

Everybody was like, he's going to be his fur, going to be his fur. This is exactly what happened. And he's been okay. I mean, he's nothing special. He hasn't been bad, though. He's not bad. He's okay. I just don't know if it's worth it for the four years or the first.

15% trade kickup. Memphis wants to be good right now, right? Is he going to be better than their wings right now? Maybe. I think he can pass. I mean, who's their starting three? I'm just not, I'm just not, I don't love Kyle Anderson. I just don't love him individually as a player.

I mean, even if he's a slight upgrade, I don't know if you want to pay a slight upgrade. Well, I mean, their owner just said, I want to win 50 games to share. Perid. He put a lot of pressure. Good luck. Good luck. Yeah, it's going to be tough. Good luck.

It's going to be tough. I want to get into Summer League in a second, but, Sharks, before we were sitting down, you were talking to me a little bit about, and I don't know if this is because you got a little cork maz and you guys right. Oh, yeah, I got some furcon, man. That was so much fun. I wanted to talk a little bit about like where we are at the state of Kauai trade talk right now

because we are in the land of the prospect. We're in the land of possibility here in Vegas these summer league games going on. I think it's easy to kind of see this and just be like, well, maybe you don't want Philly to give up a lot of their assets for somebody like Kauai. Yeah, I'm going to full draft hipster. Yeah. You know what it was for me? It was seeing Zairey had a stepback three.

I was like, oh, oh. I would trade Fultz in a heartbeat for the risk, even without a guarantee. But San Antonio want him. I don't know. I mean, like I would trade him. I'm not saying if I'm not saying if that's what it takes. Yeah. Would you do it through San Antonio?

No. So that doesn't matter. I don't want a guy that dealt with the yips last year and... Then it doesn't matter if you trade him or not then. They don't want him. We're talking from Philly's perspective. Yeah, from Philly's perspective. But it has to stay in the world of reality.

It is reality. I mean, I could see San Antonio looking at Markell Foltz and saying to themselves, he showed every. that made him the number one pick, defense, fluidity, athleticism, the ability to create, he just couldn't make the shots. It's like they'll go in a gym with him and Drew Hanlon.

That one hour of shooting is like, this is your whole life, bro. If you shoot three from one hour, go on the first. Good luck. Yeah. Talk about pressure for a kid who's already got a lot of, you know.

Is that the big last, that's the big last unanswer question. In terms of these elite players, the Jimmy Butler stuff seems like it flared up but didn't really go anywhere in terms of, now we're like doing like, it's homeland season seven like kairi and jimmy butler down the line we'll play here but we don't have to get into that i was just curious whether or not you you changed your thinking about the kawai stuff

at all or had heard anything since you got here nothing in particular i just don't think it's going to happen with the lakers i just don't see a deal there i don't think the clippers have enough i still think it is like i reported a month ago i still think the san antonius first are going to drag this out as long as it needs to go maybe even into the season i can see this going like carmello anthony before he was traded to the Knicks. He went until February. I can see what I'm thinking. If I'm Philly, I'm like,

I have all these good young players. This guy's coming off an injury. What's up with his agent? Do I only want to trade young guys for him? Yeah, but what kind of cost is a guy that can't shoot Robert Covington, who is incredibly inconsistent. He's a solid player. And like, let's just say Zaire Smith.

Yeah, like he's super talented and elite athlete. K.O.C., let us dream. I know. We're killing our dreams. But if you have add Kauai to Joel Lombid and Ben Simmons, you are maybe the favorites in the East. Yes. And you have really a roster contract that can make it hard on Golden State in the finals

with Embed's size, Simmons' size, and then Kauai Leibing. One of the best defensive players in the league. So, like, Kerosy was just like this guy was number one pick, and he's shown everything but three-point shot. Well, maybe he can figure it out again. Like, I kind of want to gamble on that. Maybe he can, but if he doesn't, then guess what do you have, a really, a constantly depreciating asset that's overpaid,

that's going to make him to $10 million range by the end of his contract that nobody's going to want. The thing with the Kauai Trade too, and we were talking about this yesterday on Bill's Pot, is just this idea the window is shrinking. The window for these teams is not the thunder window. Is it shrinking for Philly? Why is it shrinking? Because the clock is ticking on Ben. The clock is ticking on these guys.

Yeah, they're locked in for like eight years. Eight years? Well, Ben's how what? One year on his rookie deal, two years on his rookie deal. He'll get a five year max, right? Sure. I mean, those guys are crazy not to sign those things. But see, that's why I don't see why the clock is because I think that what we're seeing is that the kind of player movement we're seeing is so unprecedented.

and the kind of like the way that guys are making their deals where they're looking at NBA stuff as part of their profile of what they can earn. So like if you go to an LA, you're thinking, yeah, maybe I've lost money in this case, but I'm gaining money here. But I feel like that's the third contract. The second deal is locked in. Would you think like Ben and Joel would demand a trade or something? I'm not saying they would or wouldn't. But I think that the time to win is now. Can you see you?

Those guys are. I mean, those guys are sprinkling his eyes. You see that? Both of those guys in L.A. The whole summer they haven't hung out. Yeah. But see, I'm much sure I'd even trade Dario for Kauai. I feel like Darius.

You're nuts. Dario's so important. I have a Dario's shirt and I would trade Dario for Kauai. Because I feel like he's the group between Mbid and Simmons. He makes them like. Socially or playing? Socially. Like he's kind of the culture guy.

I saw him like fifth. I love that dude. I think he's going to be so good. I would throw him into a Kauai Tread in a heartbeat. But I just feel like look at Minnesota. You get an older vet in there, kind of moody guy. I know. Right.

These young guys are kind of goofballs. I can see that same kind of dynamic happen again in Philly. You can't do it because you're scared of that happening, though. You have to make the move. I think you still have chemistry. Think about how much leverage Boston has now that they have these stars. Now that they have like two generations of stars now, they can go old, they can go young. They can put any number of guys into packages for Anthony Davis.

I just want to believe in this lineup. I want to believe in Fultz, Zaire, Dario, Darius, Simmons, and B. I want that five. I would love that lineup. I just want a dream on it. A lot of it. A lot of if Fultz fixes a shot. Lys and short, man.

Let's believe a positive. Simmons, you know, decides he's going to switch shooting hands. If Zaire Smith's shot is real. Like, there's so many ifs with that lineup. I just quiet as an element of serving. What is an RFK line? Like, you see the world for what it is and I ask why. I see the world.

Yeah, the way I want. It should be. All right, let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. And then we're going to come back and talk a little about Summer League specifically. Hey, guys. We're broadcasting, or recording rather, live from Caesars in Las Vegas. And, man, it's been such a blast over the last couple of days. So much fun.

We've been hanging out in the sports book. walking around. We did a live show at Cleopatra's Barge. Bill had all of his very special guests like House and Heralob and Darryl from through. It's been a blast. If you're coming through Vegas, be sure to come to Caesars. You can do so much stuff here, whether you're into gambling, eating, or just hanging out and watching games. And Caesar's Entertainment is offering our listeners a special room rate at Caesar's Palace, valleys, Planet Hollywood, and Rio this summer, with up to 10% off hotel rates when using the promo code LV Pod for stays through December 28th, 2018.

You can book now on Caesars.com, offer ends September 30th, 2018. All right, guys, I want to talk a little bit about Summer League specifically. Like yesterday, I went and saw Sixth or Celtics. It was a really great time. If anybody out there, if you haven't had a chance to try

and make it out to Vegas for these games... It's packed now, man. It's a... It's a... It's a... It's a... It's a... It's a...

It's still, like, you come in, you have your ticket, sit where you want. Talk to who you want. There's a lot of great conversations happening in the concourse. A lot of takes are out there, for sure. You get to see players up close in a way in an environment that's, like, somewhat competitive, but also, like, you feel like you're watching them casually.

It's guys fighting for jobs, whether it's in the NBA or overseas. It's guys auditioning around, you know, for jobs around the world. I saw Quinn Cook and the Concourse, and the lining an autograph is, like, around the block. Seriously? It's like, we're in peak. I saw that same with Henry Ellenson. Right? Isn't that serious?

Yeah. Whereas everybody trying to get their, like, their hipsters. Henry Allen says, like, the guy. Get, we got to get Henry on the... That's great. So really, the only takeaway I had from yesterday's Summer League, other than Furcan probably should start at shooting guard over JJ Redick for the Sixers, is that Zaire Smith's Pumas seem unsafe to me.

But those are really my only two takeaways. They looked like airwalks, honestly. It takes a while to get going, I'm sure. Yeah. A whole new shoe scientist. But what are you guys looking forward to? What are some of the games you got? remark that you're definitely going to check out.

Today we got Sons King, so we got Bagley. That's the main event for sure. One versus two, baby, same position. Bagley has struggled so far in Summer League and we'll, and Aitin's had a pretty solid first game. We'll see what happens with those two battling. I want to see them play one-on-one, man. It's going to be awesome.

I hope we do get to see that. I think with Bagley, he needs to get a lot, lot, lot stronger. That's going to take a lot of time for him where his Aiton comes in with that NBA-ready body. I think, like, this could be a dominant performance. You know what's interesting in the Suns-Mavs game, in the first half, they're like, oh, we'll post up DeAndre. And they use him as a roll man.

Then he really got going to the second half. He got some lobs in that game. That was nice. And a nice fadeaway jumper from mid-range, caught it on the catch, and immediately spun to a shot. So it'll be just to see if they go, hey, Bagley 101, DeAndre or Bagley set a screen, let's do pick and roll.

Well, the other reason why that, because I think if the Suns win today, we start getting like some real, like, the Suns are actually good hype coming off of the pavement. Welcome! Welcome to the Van Wagon. KFC, did you like Mikhail Bridges yesterday? Yeah, Bridges, four, five, from three,

He played, he had a block. Looked good, man. I mean, I know you liked them a lot more than I didn't in the draft, but like, I like, I like him as well. It's just, I know you love him. Here's a, what do you think about this? I think his ceiling is JJ Reddick who can guard three positions. That's a ceiling. I don't know.

JJ's an all-time great shooter. Michael's a great shooter, though. But not all-time great. But he can work on it. He's 21, 22. He worked on it a lot. We'll see. J.J.

He's all-time. He runs around screens, and he's so long. He gets shot off. Doesn't matter how close you are to him. He seems to elevates. I felt like when I saw him taking corner threes yesterday, I was like, I'm going to be seeing this for next 10 years of my life. Oh, for sure.

He's going to have a long career, no doubt about that. He's big. He can shoot it, man. All right. Sons were pretty hype on. Who else are you looking forward to seeing while you're here? I want to see Trey Young, see if he has bounce back performances. He really struggled.

Really, really bad. 23% of the field, I think. We'll see if it's the opposite of, like, his college season where, beginning of the college season, like, oh, the next stuff, Curry. Yeah. End of the season, it's like, no way I want this dude at all. Maybe with Summer League, it'll be the opposite. It starts off poorly and finishes stronger.

I'm enjoying how much for overreacting. It's so much fun. I love the Tray Young roller coaster. I don't know anybody should overreact. I mean, this guy is going to suck as a rookie. He's so streaky. The reality is, yeah. He's going to suck as a rookie.

That's a reality. What can he do to make himself not suck as a sophomore then? Work on his body. Get his body stronger. That's a big of thing. I think also, you know, continuing to enhance his ball hand, like, tighten that up. So he's able to create off the dribble. That's what makes stuff so great.

You know what he can do really? Get better players on. his team next year. Like, if he plays RJ Barrett and he's not off the ball, then he could be pretty good. I mean, but even RJ coming and still a rookie, it's... It makes him better than the team they have now. Yeah. Right?

That would be big for him. Charks, give me your Jonathan Isaac is back. I'm so excited for Jonathan Isaac. He was great. He was shooting like 20 foot fadeaways. Like, he looks bigger. I love Jonathan. He looks pretty beefy.

I'm in. I'm totally... This is actually, like, another, like, the low-key, one of the cool things about Summer League is the guys who are playing in their second summer. Those are the big guys to watch a year, too, guys. And they're the ones who are the ones who are Like, I've been through this once and, like, yeah, the work they've done on their body, the work they've done in their game. It's really fascinating.

I feel like Isaac makes you more excited about Orlando than I've been in a long time. It's always funny seeing those little moments like Jordan Bell hitting a pull-up three. Like, granted, we just saw him playing a couple weeks ago on the finals, right? Definitely different, though. It's like, huh, it's part of his game that he just wasn't able to use. I mean, Jordan Bell should be jack in threes this year. Why not? Julianette Littman was, we were sitting in the stands yesterday and she was outraged at Semiojoli was playing.

Because she's like, I think if you've made a certain depth of playoff run, you should, be banned from Summer League. It just doesn't seem fair. And that guy is just bigger than everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. He was getting pretty frustrated with Furcan yesterday. Him and Gershawne Yeb Yssela.

Yeah. Gershont is hilarious, man. He says a classic summer league player. Gershawd is just going for buckets. Give me one guy each aside from the ones we've talked about that our listeners should check out if they're hanging out watching a little Summer League on TV or if they're here. Mo Wagner.

Yeah. He's played well. He's played well. Yeah. My guy, I mean, here's the thing with Summer League. I'm a little biased here. but it's about those energy guys. Like you have guys that are trying to do too much,

scoring the ball, playing selfishly. Then you guys have guys like Grayson Allen, Mo Wagner, like even someone like Jacob Evans, just diving on the floor, do whatever it takes to win games. I like Mo Wagner. Shoots threes, plays hard. I like seeing that in Summer League.

I mean, Jaron Jackson. Yeah. Like, I want to watch the top picks. Yeah. I mean, let me see the top five guys. You don't care about the 20s, the 40s guys. I mean, this interesting, but for fans. Like, my friend was here.

I wish I got to go see Bad Lieber State. See the top picks. Like these deep cuts are good But like see the top guys That's fair All right Charks and Kev will be all around Thomas and Mac over the weekend

We're gonna make a couple of videos here That we'll put out in over the next couple of weeks and months Getting you ready for unbelievably The 2018-19 season Which feels like it's coming right up behind us Kev John, thanks for joining Yeah thanks for having us off Thank you

Thank you