The Ringer NBA Show - Learning From 2015, Concerns for Marvin Bagley, and Chau-ing Down on Lonnie Walker | Draft Class (Ep. 213)

Episode Date: February 16, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks are joined by Danny Chau to glean lessons from the 2015 NBA draft (1:16), debate the future of Duke’s Marvin Bagley III (14:30), evaluate an overlooked prospect (21:20), and receive grades for their analyses (29:32). Links The Ringer's 2015 NBA Redraft Jonathan Tjarks on Marvin Bagley III Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor, staff writer at The Ringer.com. This is Draft Class, our new show airing every Friday in which will break down the 2018 NBA draft. Calling in on the other line from Dallas, Texas as fellow Ringer staff writer Jonathan Chogs. That was a very sultry introduction. I liked it. So recording this on Valentine's Day, I hope you guys are not spending the whole day watching basketball, something time with some special in your life. I might have slid into the DMs of somebody, but I'm not too optimistic about it. because I'm married to the game anyway.

How about you, producer Isaac? Well, I'll be editing this podcast tonight, so I guess I'm married to my work. Oh, sacrifice. Love it. That's Isaac Lee, producer of the show, sacrificing love for audio, especially for today's show, because we have Danny Chow joining us to talk about lessons learned from the 2015 NBA draft and how it applies today,

and he'll give his take on the top 10 pick everybody's overlooking. We'll also bring out our crystal ball again to predict the future for Marvin Bagley and close out with grades from Professor Isaac. Okay, it's time for. for class. Joining us from Los Angeles is the man with the taste buds equipped to spit the hottest draft takes in the universe.

It's the Winger's associate editor, Danny. Chow! Hello, I am happy to be here. And I'm here with my two writers. I edit both of you guys. It's a pleasure working with both of you. You have the best words, Danny. Doesn't he charts?

Yeah, Danny's really writing our articles, if that's not obvious. We're just front men. We're just pretty faces. Well, this week, we, along with Justin Varyer, redrafted the 2015 NBA draft, which you And find On Theringer.com. And while you're there, please check out Planet Earth's best college basketball show, One Shining Podcasts with Titus and Tate. On The Ringer Podcast Network, we'll have Titus and Tate on here at some point in the coming weeks,

hopefully during March Madness. But today, we're going to focus on knowledge gain from the 2015 draft and how that can be applied with a kind of similar 2018 draft. So, Charks, to give our listeners some context, let's run through the top five, the greatest risers and fallers from our redraft on the Ringer. In the top five, we had Towns at one, which I think everyone kind of agreed with. And then you went two with Devin Booker, who was 13 in the 2015 draft, by far the biggest jumper. Then we rounded out with Chris Stops Porzengis at three, Miles Turner at four.

And I swung for the fences with Kelly Uber at five, another big riser. And Josh Richardson rose from 40 to 8 Miami Heat Pick in real life. Jolilil Kofor fell out of our lottery pick. Emilio Moudier did as well. So did Frank Kempinski and Mario Hizonia. Danny, I mean, do you have a key takeaway from what happened almost three years later now? Actually, Mario was in there to give Danny his credit. He snuck him back in at 11.

He fell from 5 to 11. So that is a significant drop, but not quite as significant as, say, Jaliel Okifor, going from number 3 to number literally nothing. Like, he was not a part of our discussion at all. And that's kind of the biggest thing, I would say, is him, Frank Kaminsky, guys who, you know, we saw kind of dominate college. being big guys who, you know, were multi-skilled, multi-dimensional, but they just didn't really have a modern slant to the game.

Those guys kind of fell to the wayside. Charks, how about you? What's your key takeaway from our redrafts? Yeah, I think that's part of it, one. And I think part of it, too, is just a guy like Josh Richardson, it's like with wings, if you can get a good, solid 3-and-D wing, the floor and a guy like that can be a lot higher than the floor on guys like Justice or Stanley Johnson,

where you're waiting for that three-point shot. I think that's really my key takeaway there from the draft is, you know, Justice Winslow is a guy who had ranked second at one point. You know, Stanley Johnson, I didn't like quite as much, but I still liked him a bunch. And with those guys, the question then was, well, can they shoot a jumper? You know, can they have a consistent jumper? And Justice Winslow shot around 40% from three. So there were some people, well, like, yeah, his shot doesn't look great.

But, you know, the shots go in. And that's a question I have myself asking with some of the guys in this year's draft with Marvin Bagley, who shot it's falling, but it doesn't look great to me with Mo Bamba as well. I feel that with Jaron Jackson. There's a handful of guys in the top 10 who aren't necessarily wings or forwards,

but I'm looking at their percentages and I'm not sure it's aligning with what I see with the eye test. Right. Yeah, I would say too, it's like these days, you want the shot to be the foundation of everything else.

Like, I'm not convinced Ubrei is better at a lot of things than Stanley or Justice Winslow, but Ubre's got the jumper and everything else builds off that. And so if that's your foundation, I feel like it's easier to get minutes. It's easier to find a role.

And once you have roles, it's easier to grow on that. Danny, with Kelly Ubrey, I mean, he's somebody who I didn't like it all in the drafts. I looked at him and just saw way too raw, not a guy that I really wanted to bank on. A lot of people viewed him as like a top 10 guy. And, you know, Charks correctly drafted him. Fifth. I mean, I don't think I would have taken him that high, but five to eight range. Is there a guy really in this year's draft that the Ubrey raw kind of mold,

applies to when you're kind of scouting ahead with 2018 drafts. Well, with Ubrey, what I saw from 2015 was just, he was a guy who had the perfect frame for, you know, a modern wing, huge shoulders, long wingspan, athletic. I didn't really see a lot of, you know, shot creation ability in Kansas, and I still kind of don't see that now, just because he's buried under, you know, two of the most talented scores in the East with Bradley Beale and John Wall.

So you're not really seeing that yet, But I can see why Charks is so high on it. In a way, isn't that okay? I mean, like, last week, Charks and I talked about Jaron Jackson, and how he's such an easier to guy to fit in than some of these other guys who you're imagining as, you know, your franchise level player. But maybe there's some logic to being a tick higher on those guys you imagine plugging into that more complementary role.

We're talking about guys like Michael Bridges even. You know, somebody like that or Miles Bridges for that matter. That's my guy. So, you know, with both the Bridges, Charks, I mean, are those kind of guys? that you envision, well, maybe they're going to go late lottery, but when we redraft three, four, or five years from now, that those are the guys, well, how'd they not go on the top five? Yeah, I really think with Michael Bridges especially,

I feel like, as like we're saying, his ceiling, maybe the shot creation isn't as high. But if you look around the league, how many teams need three indie wings who can shoot 40% from three and guard three positions? Everyone. Whereas, like, a guy like Bagley, even, he has to be in a perfect situation.

Whereas a guy like Bridges, anywhere is a good situation for him. So you have a pretty good confidence he will succeed in the NBA. You mentioned situation. We touched on this a little bit last week, but with guys like DeAndre Aiton, Marvin Bagley, Mo Bamba, I think Carl Towns fell into a great spot in Minnesota. He had Kevin Garnett, you know, with him as a rookie,

Tom Tibido was hired, and granted Towns has been up and down defensively. I think it's been a good developmental situation in Minnesota. Have we learned anything from what Towns has fallen into that might apply or help? Like, what's the ideal situation for someone like DeAndre Aiton, Danny? What's interesting with the Towns-Aton comparison

is that I feel like only recently Towns has actually gotten really comfortable in his body. I remember watching him in the McDonald's All-American game, and he was just like a guy with, like, a lot of baby fat. He was like, you know, obviously clearly talented, but there were still some kind of coordination issues. When I watched him, I was like, oh, so he's basically who Javail McGee thinks he is as a player, you know?

And, you know, now he's shooting 42% from three. He's dominating inside and out on offense. I just feel like with Aiton, he's been the most imposing player for, like, most of his life. And he hasn't really gone through that, like, awkward stage. So it's kind of different. I don't know. For sure. And I think they had a different upbringing, and I'm sure that certainly is going to play a factor with, you know, their mindset.

But I look at some of, like, the scouting reports for towns back in 2015 and look at Aiton today, and there's a lot of the same questions. It's like, well, you know, effort comes and goes sometimes, you know, how good are his instincts, you know, he bites for pump fakes. There's questions like that with Towns back in 2015. And to be honest, Charks, I mean, those questions are still there, even though he's made some progress. With Aiton, is that where you kind of are like, well, why not just take the high IQ guy when we've learned that some of these flaws never get fixed? Yeah, and I would say, too, I would say Cowans was significantly a, head of Aiden.

Like, I feel like with Aiden, he bites a pump fake, so it's more, does he have consistent effort? Whereas Towns was like, he's playing really hard a lot. He was the captain of an elite defense. Arizona's out of the top 200.

And they have a stacked roster full of athletes. And you look at the problem, it's like defending the rim. And that goes right back to Aiden. And as far as this situation, can we just say not the Kings? Like,

don't get in Sacramento. That would not end well, I don't think. Yeah, I would say for most players, or all players for that, or just avoid the Kings. I mean, yeah, don't work out.

What was it last year? Like, they don't work out with them two years ago. Like, it's a tough place to go, man. Is there such a thing as like a player that you do want to land on the Kings, though? I mean, somebody has to go there. They're going to have a high pick. I would say, like, with the Kings, I would want Luca or Jackson. Someone like, who's just going to be good wherever they go.

Someone who doesn't need a context around them. Someone who can just kind of make it work. Someone doesn't need to be developed. They have a high floor, basically. Almost kind of like with Deeron Fox, one of those culture changer types of guys, where, like, the young Andre A, and you might be a little bit worried there because you want him surrounded by veteran influences, you know, a coach is really going to push him on defense and examples to follow.

But that's a great point. I think for someone like Don Trich, he's someone that could go there and actually change the culture of the team and turn it into something along with the Aaron Fox that maybe players want to go to. Right. Oh, I'll be plug my article on Bogdan-Bogdanovich coming. Potential color change in Sacramento. Yeah.

Chark spent some time with Bogdanovich down in Dallas for last night's game. Bogdanvich. Hell yeah. By the way, he's a very handsome man. I was quite impressed. Like, man. Kind eyes. Looks, of course, as we talked about on Tuesday's Ringer NBA show, are the number one trait that you look for when scouting basketball players.

It's all about charisma. You know, facial features plays a big part in that. Number one, got to be charismatic. Got to have great posture. According to our discussion on Tuesday. But anyway, in the 2015 draft, the season started out where most people had Jalelaal O'Keeh. O'Cafour ahead of Carl Towns. He's a winner, man.

He's won in every single step he was at, you know? I mean, he's going to bring back the low post. He's going to change the NBA. Forget all these shooters. O'Kofor is going to be the classic big man in a league. But that changed pretty quickly. That December, I think, Towns started to move ahead a lot of people's boards. Then in January and February around this time, it became consensus.

Towns is the number one prospect. Is there a guy this season that can separate in your eyes, Danny? I mean, are we counting Donchich? Well, focusing strictly on the big... Okay. Well, I feel like it's Aiton. The way in which she can go from the high post down to the low block in like half a second against any player in America right now is just you don't see that. And the grace and ease in which he does it, when I watch Bagley play and when I see him kind of do his Brandon Wright impression, it's kind of worrying for me.

Like, I see the numbers, but I don't see it necessarily translating quite as well as Aiden. Are you on the same page charts? Yeah, I mean, I feel like Aiton's ceiling is higher than Bagley's. When you watch Aten, like, he's just so freaking big, man. He makes even like big guys look small. Like, he's 1819, like Stephen Adam's size already. I think with Aiton, too, you know, even beyond the physicality, beyond his body and his physical dimensions, I think his passing has impressed me.

I really appreciate his intensity on the floor. he's very emotional. I like seeing that out of a big man, the guy's going to anchor your defense. I think he's somebody, if you put him in the right situation, he's going to adapt and learn how to really be that anchor

that your defense needs. I mean, in a bad situation, he might continue to have the same problems in terms of not being able to help from the weak side, reading the floor a little bit slowly. But look, man, I think in the right spot, Aiton could easily become like the number one guy

in the strategy. You could over Donchitz for that matter. Charks, when you were at the McDonald's All-American last, year or two years ago, you would talk to Aiden and he compared himself to Kevin Garnett, right? Yeah, I remember it was really quite funny because he had spent the whole practice like not trying, just goofing off.

Then we're talking after, he's like, I'm just KG out there. I love to work hard. And then he's like, you know, actually I'm in the core. I should probably block more shots. Sometimes I just don't want to do it. But I play like KG too. I mean, Aiden's a funny guy. There's a good story this morning that I haven't read completely yet on the athletic

about Aton's work ethic and, you know, how hard he works. and connected with a lot of what I've heard about him, you know, he's really busting his ass, you know, at Arizona trying to make improvements. And that bodes well, man. I mean, he's in a great college situation there. If that can somehow be replicated in the NBA, he could become one of the best bigs in the league.

I mean, is there a spot that you like for him moving forward, Danny, in the league? I know what I have in my mind. Take a guess. Okay, yeah. What's his best spot for him? If he lands in Boston, I, let's just, let's give up. Right now that Lakers pick is looking like it's going to convey it a, The Sixers.

Right. Okay. So just hypothetical. If he were to land on the Boston Celtics, he would be the most promising big man they've had since perish? Sounds about right to me. I mean, he's certainly more promising than Al Jefferson.

It was quite promising at the time. I like Phoenix for him as well. I like what they're doing. They have a lot of young talent. I think plug in eight in there. That could be nice. I like him for Dallas, Charks.

Do you like him for Dallas? I know you like Mo Obama there, though. I think I'm a Jackson guy. The tough thing with Dallas is they're pretty much starting over. Like in two years, probably the guy left this roster is Dennis Smith. So I don't know how many veterans will be left for Aiton in two years from now.

Are you willing to wait for either Aiton or Bagley or Bamba for that matter? Like, are you willing to wait to see their development out as a Mazz fan? See, to me, with the young point guard, you kind of want a more sur thing next to him at center. Like we saw with Noel how that worked out. I'm more of a sure thing guy.

Like, give me Jackson, move him and Smith going for. That's the kind of guy I like in Dallas. So we're going to look into our crystal ball right here that's in Dallas with Charks here with us because of the power of podcast magic. I feel it. To take a look at Marvin Bagley, Duke Forward prospect, to find out who he is now and what he's going to be five years from now. He's putting out big time numbers, 21 points a game, 11 rebounds, two assists, one block, missed his game earlier this week. But he's number one on a lot of people's boards, but it seems like here we're not quite as high on him as a lot of people are.

Danny with Bagley, what are your reservations? You know, what do you need answered for him to like to really elevate to the next level? Let's talk about this devastating Brinand Wright comparison though. I want to hear this. Look, when I watch him play, I'm just like, okay, well, Brandon Wright was a top five pick in 2008. Brandon Wright, man. And, you know, sweet hook shot. It's probably one of the sweetest in the game.

Like, he has such a long wingspan and it looks so good. But that's just kind of what he maxed out as. Like, you didn't really see him really develop too much on the defensive end. And there wasn't ever really much more than that on the offensive end. And so right now, when I see him as like this devastating kind of mid-post threat, that's all I can see. You know what I'm worried about with him, Charks? He doesn't use his right hand. Like, only uses his left hand around the rim.

There you go. I mean, there's definitely some randolish stuff in his game. Really, just no defense. I mean, he doesn't really block shots. He's got to sell a seven-foot wingspan. I disagree with you. Can he block shots, though? Look, okay, with Bagley, he can D up.

I mean, he's touted, though, as like a high-end defensive player, which he's definitely not that, but he can defend. And the reason why he's not that high-end guy is he's not quite long enough, not quite strong enough to defend the bigger, big guys. And on the perimeter, he's good, and I think he can be versatile. But I think you might have said this last week, Charks, where he's maybe more like a Nerlands-No-L-type on defense, which is good, but not great.

Well, the thing is Norland's could block shots. Like Bagley, not only doesn't, he doesn't have the wing span. There's a lot of times he just doesn't really make the defensive plays either. He kind of counts on Wendle Carter to defend for him and that's not great either. So I just worry that, like with Aiden, sometimes Aiden doesn't make the play, but he has the arms at least to be in the right position. Bagley is really undersized lengthwise. Charks had written about Bagley earlier for the ringer. And one point that he made that was pretty interesting was that he projects as a five in the NBA,

but his best defensive skills are probably defending in space in the perimeter and not as a guy who's going to be a traditional rim protector. So I can't really think of that many parallels. Like I guess Julius Randall is probably, as we mentioned earlier. Great rebounder who's okay spacing the floor, but not quite what you want, who sometimes is great defensively. Sometimes you're like, why do we have this guy out here?

So is that guy worth a top five pick? I don't think I'd have him in my top four. maybe five, but I worry about him. We're talking about defense here, but also offensively, he's shooting 35% from three, which is fine. But he's also shooting only 62% from the free throw line. In high school, he was not a productive three-point shooter. I don't know.

I mean, that's such an important part for, like we look back at 2015, for any player. You need to be able to space the floor offensively, and he can, I just don't know if he's going to do it at the level you need to that you're banking on. To me, he could end up becoming a big stat, guy on a bad team type of player, which is appealing. I can see that too. And the other thing is like, so like let's say he works on his three point shot, but the strength of his game is in

the paint. Like he's a different player at the three point line. He's not a great, he's an okay ball handler. I just really passed the ball much. Pick him out of the paint. That's where he's really most effective. So you're really changing who he is. And you're changing, and he's being drafted high because of what he did in college, but he probably can't do those things in the NBA as much. Yeah. That, that Michael Beasley comparison from a couple weeks, back, Sean Fantasy changed my life. Five years from now, was he, like, the best version of Beasley,

which that's not a bad thing. Beasley's a guy who scored 19 points per game before, had a quite impressive sophomore season in the NBA. Is that okay? I mean, you cool with that? The other thing, too, is, like, Beasley's playing with K.P. or he was, like, if Badley can go somewhere with a unicorn,

who can kind of space to floor for him and block shots for him and do what he can do best, if he can find that perfect spot, maybe everything else works out for him. Right. Funny thing is, you know, you're mentioning find him a unicorn to play with. I think a lot of people view him as a unicorn. And I think that's where expectations might not be met moving forward with him.

So, like, he's almost an anti-unicorn. And not in a bad way, but whatever the opposite of the unicorn is, that's what Bagley could be. Like a polar, I don't even know. So an anti-unicorn would basically be a horse with its horn sticking, retracting into its eye. Okay. Yeah. I know what you're saying. What you're saying is.

is he's got to be good, but he might not be a great player that a lot of people are expecting to get based on his numbers, based on the hype, based on his draft positioning, where you might be wishing that you took the safer guy like a Jared Jackson. You might be saying, damn it, if only we won the friggin' lottery and could have ended up with DeAndre Aiton's. That's exactly where I was going with that horse analogy. And the other thing, too, I was watching a telecast, and Aiden called himself the Black Mermaid. That would be a great name for Backin actually Wait, this is news to me

Hold on I think Bill Walton was saying it So I'm taking it with a grain of salt But he kept calling Ait and the Black Mermaid I'm searching this on Twitter right now The Black Mermaid is phenomenal Yeah, I'm seeing it right now Yep

So that was a real thing Yeah So with Bagley what do you guys think Is the best possible situation for him In terms of team fit? I was thinking like just in terms of immediate fit Would be Memphis Playing with Gassal and Conley

and like badly could be like a really good version of to Michael Green. Like Gassau spaces the floor anchors the defense. Then he has a veteran point guard. They're going to be a bad team this year. I don't know. I like him on Atlanta. Good developmental situation. Interesting.

I like the coaching staff there, assuming they stick around moving forward. I'm much about him and Collins though as a fit long term. Yeah, that's worrisome to me. Like you're pairing him with Collins and that means, you know, you have two very athletic guys, very skilled offensive players, but they kind of overlap in that sense. and neither of them can really protect the rim. A little dicey. It's tough to find a good fit.

It's tough to find a good fit, which is why my idea would be throw him on the magic, have them play alongside Aaron Gordon and Jonathan Isaac. That's interesting. A bunch of long-limbed, you know, help rotation defenders to help them out.

I don't love them on sons. Don't love him on Kings. Don't love him on Dallas, Boston, Cleveland's. Not a lot of great spots for him, but he's going to go high. Now we're going to get. get to the Chowdown, which is Danny Chow's look at the prospects that are overlooked. It's also the name of his food articles that he does on the ringer.com, and the name is so good

that we're using it twice. Danny Chow is going to give his take on the player who should be a top 10 pick, but nobody's talking about him as such. So this is a guy I'm really, really high on. Lonnie Walker out of Miami. He's 6'4, 205 pounds, 610 wingspan. He kind of fits the mold of exactly what you're looking for in terms of like this kind of three and the athlete that every team is coveting right now. I think he has a really solid frame that can get stronger in a couple years. He kind of fell down a lot of big boards because he had a really awful starts of the season. I kind of want to chalk that to him recovering from a torn meniscus that he had over the summer last year.

So I'm kind of willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with that. Ever since he picked up the slack for the team since Bruce Brown, another guy who could possibly be a three and D guy drafted in the first round. Bruce Brown went down with the broken foot, I believe, right? Yeah, quite layout for the whole season. Yeah. Ever since Brown went down, Lonnie Walker's kind of taken his game to the next level. He's averaging 17 points, hitting 38% of his threes,

three rebounds, three assists, a block, a steal. Those are really outstanding numbers. And he's a guy I'm excited about on both ends of the floor. You could kind of pigeonhole him into that Avery Bradley type of guy who's chasing guys around screens and kind of being a pest. I think his 6-10 wing span is going to be huge for guarding guys who are maybe a little bit bigger than him. But it's on his offense that I'm really kind of intrigued about what he can do.

Do you buy the jumper? I do. I mean, he's shooting, I believe, 33% from 3. But you think it's a better? 34% and he shot 39% in the EYBL of high school level. But only 68% from the line in high school. I wonder if he's actually somewhere in between as a shooter. Maybe more he's like the 35% range, which is fine for a teenager.

So you are not as worried about that because based on his mechanics and projecting forward. Yeah, but mechanics look good. A guy who actually has similar mechanics is Victor Oladipo, which might be a pretty good comparison for him. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, and he's a guy who is very confident with his shot. Like any place inside half court, he's a threat to launch, which is very huge for his future potential. Because right now, I would say one of the biggest things holding him back in terms of his offense is that he doesn't really have any

advanced dribbling moves. If he's not beating you on his first step, which is very good. But if he's not beating you there, he's often settling for floaters or he's taking, you know, bad pull-up jumpers. But he has really good body control

once he gets into the lane. He finishes with both hands as well. Exactly. He can dunk with both hands for that matter, too. Exactly. There was that play against Louisville, I believe. He was driving.

He absorbed contact jumping up, kind of turned his back towards the basket, went up with one hand, switched to the other, and banked it in on a lap. I was just like, that was incredible. Charks,

you were the small ball king. How does Lonnie Walker fit in today's small ball NBA? I mean, the tools are there. Miami's a pretty interesting team. I'll actually throw in a real deep cut for you guys from Miami.

I watched the Duke game before he did this podcast. And a guy to impress you a lot speaking of small ball was Anthony Lawrence Jr. 6.7. He guarded Marvin Bagley. He shoots 40% from 3.

6.7. 185, kind of the wingish body. I think with Miami, It's tough because they have so many comboish guards in their roster. They don't really have a true point guard that maybe if Walker was somewhere else where he could kind of get the ball in the rhythm, he might be a little better too. That could help him.

I'm worried personally. A guy that I loved in the 2016 draft was Timothy Luau. And I had him ranked in the top 10, which looks crazy now. I had him ranked 9th that year. I see a lot of similarities with Lonnie Walker and Timothy Luau for better and for worse. I love Luau's intensity and defensively. There's really an energizer on that end of the floor. lore and can also see that with Lonnie Walker as well.

But what's held back Luawu is he's a good defender, but he's kind of lean. He's not super physical. You know, he's not, even though he's six foot seven, he's not able to defend like bigger guys because he's so lean. I think Lonnie Walker's kind of lean too. So maybe Avery Bradley, you know, is kind of his lane defensively, which would be great, you know, if he can lock down guards. But if he also needs, which has been the problem with Luau, that's, that's a lot of

shot to be for real. Right. And I'm not sure that it is. I mean, I wonder how much his percentages are down based on shot selection, forcing shots early in the clock. But looking at his spot-up numbers on synergy. He takes some bad shots for sure. He does take some bad shots, but also on synergy, his catch-and-chute numbers aren't great either. Shutes 29% on catch-and-shoot shot attempts, which isn't good. I think the potential's there, but I wonder if it's the same thing with, like, Justice Winslow, same thing with Stanley Johnson and so many guys to come through where it's like, well, a shot looks good, but the percentages aren't great. They're just okay or the other way around.

The percentages are good, but the shot looks bad. I wonder how much of it is just projecting forward with him, but I think he has a good touch. I have some optimism, but I also have some questions with him. I just think he's one of those guys who is like, okay, he definitely has the potential to be something more than just a standard cookie cutter, 3&D player. 3&D plus.

He could become that. Exactly. There's definitely a possible outcome with that. I don't know about top 10, but late lottery, for sure. I'm right there with you, Danny. And there are a bunch of guys in his mold and kind of in his lane as well who are probably going to be drafted in the mid to late first round, early second round, who are all just going to be wings because the league just has such a scarcity

that it just needs to be met. Charks, what Danny just said about the scarcity of wings in the league, does that raise the value of guys like him in your eyes based on the fact that they're so hard to find based on draft value or do you still look specifically at the players and their individual talent kind of regardless of the positional need

in the NBA? No, I think no question that it has to come into your account. Because I mean a lot of it, if you look at the last couple drafts, is like if you're drafting bigger players, it's like, does my team have minutes for these guys? And if they don't have minutes for them, how good can they be? Like, Kaminsky's a good example of that.

Charlotte has like four or five centers now and do you really want him at the first? four, then it's like, where are the minutes for him? So the guy's got to have minutes to have a role in the NBA. So there's going to be a lot of fight, I think, right now, we're going to start following these mock drafts because nobody needs fives. Before we get out of here, we want to share with you our cheat sheet. Not everyone has time to watch the NBA and follow young players.

So if you want to double dip this weekend and watch two prospects, check out Texas and Oklahoma. It's an early afternoon game with Mo Bamba from Texas, Tray Young from Oklahoma. David and Goliath. Yeah, it's going to be a good time. Trey Young, you know, as my good friend Jonathan Gavoni from ESPN slash Draft Express, tweeted this morning, hasn't really been too good lately. He's missed his last 16, three-pointers.

He's attempted. Seven for 41 in his last like six games or something like that. Really struggle. Oklahoma's two and seven in their last nine games. Young has 66 assists, the 58 turnovers over that span. Danny, is Trey Young magic starting to wear off? You know what? It might be, but at the same time, I can think of.

so many teams in that late lottery stage that are just like, all right, let them keep follow him. Let him keep following. What do you watch them for this weekend, John? Well, I mean, I'll be an all-star weekend, but I think the Texas game, one got to watch for Texas OU is Kerwin Roach.

He's one of the better athletes in the country. He's a fantastic 6-5, dunk contest kind of guy, and he'll be guarding Young. And with Young, the Big 12 12 was a tough league, man. An OU doesn't have too much around him, so you had to expect a little, but he was going to fall back to the earth just because there's too many good teams, too many good coaches, too many good defenses

for just the show he was on to continue all season. Like you said, Charks, Oklahoma also faces Kansas on Monday. Schedule really doesn't get any easier for that moving forward. So I'll be looking forward to that, seeing how Trey Young bounces back after kind of a rough stretch these past couple weeks. But right now, we need some grades from our producer, Isaac Lee. Hey, so I'm going to start with Kevin. You threw out some, like, synergy numbers earlier.

And I am very pro-analytics. I think that's a plus for you. But then earlier in the show, you showed your homerism by wanting a prospect to be taken by the Boston Celtics. So you get a B for Boston. Just being real, man. It's a great spot for DeAndre Aiton. Just being real.

Facts. It's a great spot for everyone. Charks, you introduced us to the DeAndre Aitin's Black Mermaid nickname, which was fantastic. Shouts to Bill Walton. And then you took a deep dive later on in this show on this Miami player where I just zoned out. I was transported to another dimension

because I didn't understand. who you were talking about. Anthony Lawrence. Sorry, I zoned that again. I just fell asleep and I woke up. Charks, you get a B plus from me. I'll take it. And finally, Danny, it's your first time on this show.

Your attempt at describing the anti-unicorn with the horse, with the inverted horns or whatever you were trying to do, that was a valiant effort. And then at one point, you talked about Charks in the third person, as if he wasn't on the phone with you. Like, Charks earlier this week wrote about this, You know, he's completely ignoring his presence.

To be fair, sometimes I'm third person myself. I'll just say it. There you go. Does that change the grade, Isaac? Come on. I guess then that becomes a bonus point because you're playing into Charks' actual persona. Look, I've been his editor for like two years now. So we're like this.

It's fingers are crossed right now. My fingers are crossed. You know what, Danny, I was going to give you like a C plus, but then I think this last conversation brings you up to an A. Wow. You get an A plus for me, Danny. I'll take that participation award. Well, thank you for listening to Draft Class.

We'll be back next Friday and every Friday up until the NBA draft on June 21st. And I want to say thank you to Danny Chow for joining us on the show and he'll be back on the coming weeks. Thank you. Again, please check out all our NBA content on the ringer.com and the ringer podcast. If you like this show, give us a five-star rating and a raving review on Apple Podcast. We'll see you next week. Class dismissed.