The Ringer NBA Show - LeBron Carries the Cavs (Again), Raptors Take the Lead, the Thunder Make a Comeback, and the Rockets Decimate the Timberwolves | Group Chat (Ep. 256)

Episode Date: April 26, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Haley O’Shaughnessy, Jason Concepcion, and Paolo Uggetti to react to the night’s quadruple header and answer a few mailbag questions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's Ringer NBA show Group Chat is brought to you by Google Assistant. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions on your phone, in your car, and around the house. One of my favorites is to get the latest sports info when I'm in the car and can't be messing around with my phone. With the Google Assistant, I can get the latest scores, team records, and schedules. Download the Google Assistant today. Hey, everybody, it's Chris Ryan. You're about to listen to the Ringer NBA show Group Chat. We recorded this Wednesday night as the Thunder.

climb back into their series with the Jazz. We watched that quadruple header on Wednesday night and talked all about LeBron, his game winning shot, Russell Westbrook and Playoff P coming back. We also talked a lot about the Sixers, huge surprise. We will be doing these group chats on Wednesday nights. You can watch us live on Twitter, on various video platforms, and then you can also listen to us late Wednesday night

or early Thursday morning, however you get down. Check out the Ringer NBA show all week to just answer any playoff question, you have, we'll be there for you. And without further ado, here's the Ringer NBA show, group chat. Basketball is very good. O'KC would make the finals in the east. Ben Simmons doesn't need a jumper. Terry Roseer is more clutch than Kyrie.

Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's group chat. Haley's had like 46 coffee shots. Satalia Sharisian, Jason Concepcion, Justin Verrier, in the back. Paulo, shocker. Keith! The man, the myth, the legend.

We are here. The thunder and the jazz just wrapped earlier. LeBron James, LeBron James all over the Pacers. We're going to talk about everything that happened tonight, everything that's been going on in the playoffs. I just want to take a quick sip of all the haters' tears. Take that, Thunder, haters. I've been living with this all night.

Justin and Jason, it's some extent, Haley, although I think you're just like kind of tweaked on caffeine to this point. It's also more pro-Donovan than anti-Russ. Pro-Donovan than anti-Russ. No hate. It's more anti-Presty than anything. Yeah, but like it's just been like, I feel like we've had this very perceptible shift in public opinion where everybody seems to just want the thunder out of here as fast as possible.

They want PG-13 out of there as fast as possible. They want Mello to be in his $28 million dollar sarcophagus. in Oklahoma City, can you explain to me before we get to their massive victory what the sort of general turn against the Thunder is? I think just pure luck is what ended up happening? No, I mean, first of all, Mello was not playing in the game, and that seemed to spark a little bit of something with this Thunder team, and then obviously Rush was just unconscious. We were talking about this before we went on.

It seemed like the Jazz were playing pretty sound defense. Yeah. And as someone who is a Sixers fan, Chris Ryan. You seem to, you would be able to appreciate process over results. I think it's just the case where Russ hit a bunch of mid-range jumpers, and that really is, you just got to tip your hat to them. They were down 25 and they didn't quit, which you have to admire, because that looked like.

So it's good to not quit. Well, there was a moment there were- How important was this game? It was probably, I would say, of the games that have been played so far, the most important one of the season. Jason, do you feel like the Thunder are somehow become like the, like the kicking, like they're just getting kicked around a lot by NBA fans. Or is that just like a basketball Twitter thing?

And it's actually like for the most part, people still love Russ and people want to see the Thunder more than they want to watch. I think a lot of it is just like the natural life cycle of a NBA player. You know, when a player is younger and the stakes are lower, it's just a lot of fun. I think Chris Paul is a great example of this with like, point God, we love him. He's great. And then it's all of a sudden he's a joke and he never got to the conference files. Get this guy out of here.

I think with Russ, it's a similar dynamic at play. He's one of the most exciting players, if not the most exciting player in the league. The athleticism is thrilling. His will to win is, like, truly inspiring. And at the same time, like, you've got to balance that with... The reality that is... Yeah, like, he's just a hard fit with a winning basketball team at the highest level. Yeah, I would say two things.

I think it's the old analytics versus... the traditional sort of way of looking at the league playing out again. But also, Russ is a lightning rod. He's like, sometimes he's a jerk. And when he's not a jerk and you're on the opposite side of that, he's just a very loud personality. So he's going to be divisive for that reason. But you can have, I mean, you can do the whole advanced analytics thing and his usage

rate and everything. But also, we've seen before how he just kind of like stops at the perimeter after he gives the ball up. And that's very much like just the eye test. 45, 15 boards, and seven assists tonight. Don't you think also like that I think you were talking to me about this earlier about where it's like part of it is like rather than giving the jazz the credit and some of the players on the jazz like Ricky and Donovan, the credit that they deserve were like more obsessed with how they've put together the wrong pieces on the thunder. Yeah, definitely. And I think that the whole thing about Mello was like nobody really thought that he would fit there in the first place. Yeah. And then you know he had all the heat about like I'm not going to come off.

the bench and then it wasn't really working out. Nobody thinks that the team is controllable. And so I think it's just everyone thought that the pieces weren't going to fit in the first place. Also, they had so much pressure and they still do about Paul George staying because obviously like a first round out is not going to impress him. I thought that they would come back pretty early, although I thought that they were dead for a while, but then I thought they looked like they just had a little bit of momentum and it was way too early. and when Gobert got in foul trouble, obviously Gobert is this series. He stops, Danny wrote about this,

Gobert stops everything the Thunder want to do, which is that relentless push towards the basket and then kicking it out to shooters. Right, and he was out for how long during that run? Most of it. Most of it. Yeah, right. But I think that a lot of it has to do with Russ is sort of carrying the water for the mistakes of the franchise itself.

So whether it's Harden, whether it's Durant walking, whether it's Presti gilding the lily a little bit for taking and getting mellow when he, you know, an honest, like, would you rather have Ennis Canter or Mello right now? That's, that's, like, a legitimate question. That's a, yeah. Ennis Cancer was there, so he would obviously rather be back. Especially the way Jeremy Grant is playing in this series.

They have Ennis Canter spiritually. In his heart, Ennis Canter will always be a thought. Honestly, that's the best part about Ennis Canter. Right, that's what the, that's all they had of him last series when they couldn't play him. Can't play him. Yeah. So this isn't all that different.

The inverse of the Thunder supporting cast, maybe not being up to par, is that the Jazz's guys, like, their front line scorers really kind of wilted down the stretch there. There's something Haley was saying. And I think that's the problem that you have with this team. Yeah, they have the defense that can support them, sustain them for three wins in this series.

But all of a sudden it gets into kind of a tip-for-tat sort of scoring fest, and they don't have a guy that can turn to. Mitchell tried to. And it just didn't seem like he had that edge to go toe-to-to-to-to-with Russ. Sounds a lot like the first game that we watched tonight, which was Pacers' Caps, which is like a really cool dynamic. young team who has a lot of interesting players who were still earlier in their development,

but at the end of the day, none of them are named LeBron. Right. And if Victor Oladipo is having a rough game, like, you can't turn to Miles Turner. His face at the end of the game was like, I can't believe I just witnessed that happening. Right. I don't think anybody at the queue or anybody who were recently arrived on. Even all of LeBron's teammates were like, I can't believe I'm seeing this in person. This is amazing.

That was also to me, and I don't mean to make this sound weird, the second most impressive thing he did look tonight. Because the most impressive was that 360 pass. Oh, that was crazy. He made that didn't result in a basket. I thought you were going to say knock it cold for an obvious goal 10. Yeah, which he sort of copped to. Was it obvious, though?

A little bit. And you just reviewed the play. In replay, it was obvious. Yeah, for sure. It was definitely a goal. We want to talk. I want to point out that after the, in the press conference, he said, yeah, it was definitely a goal 10. He can say that now because they won the game.

Yeah, exactly. What is our sort of investment in LeBron James? games, does it distort whether the East is any good? I mean, it's only been 24 hours since the six years, so I think, like, you know, we have to take a step back here. But we were talking earlier about how, like, the East is still LeBron and everyone else in terms of that, that, like, kind of marquee, eye-grabbing talent. You're still hearing Jimmy, is what you're saying.

Oh, I am. You're hearing me in your ears all the time. No, I mean, if anything, I walked away from that earlier game, just thinking, like, wow, the East is still pretty bad. It took an epic LeBron performer. It's probably one of the best we've seen from him in years to even bring that win back to the Cavs. And the Pacers on the other side, Victor Oladipo,

was pretty much shut down the entire night. A lot of these teams just don't have the front-line talent. So it seemed like the Sixers just stands out because they have a few guys or a lot of these guys are just relying on just one person. I will say across the board, nobody's really winning convincingly. No. Yeah.

Like who's the best team in the playoffs? I mean, the overall. Like, watching them, you're like, that's the best team. Forget record, forget anything else. Sixers? It's tough. I mean, the Sixers? Sixers, Pelican Sweeps.

Yeah, it was supposed to be the Rockets. And then it's like, James Hardin's having these weird start-to-games where we're like, this is what happened last year. And the Rockets don't. Even they thought you were drug. Yeah. And the Rockets don't burn your eyebrows off. Like, you're not like, oh, my God. Like, they scored 50 points in a quarter.

And it was like, three's in foul shots. So you're just like, okay, cool. Like, wow, this, I didn't even notice. They're up by 20. You know another reason I think that when we watched that Cavs game, we thought, okay, the East is really bad, is because everyone except LeBron on the Cavs is playing really poorly. Right. Remember, we looked at, J.R. Smith had zero points.

He took like seven shots. Jose Calderon. Like five of them were threes. Yeah. Jose's starting. Calcorver starting. These are not guys we expected to be in the rotation at this point in the season going into this season. They would mix in Hood Hill.

Tristan. Tristan. Tristan. He's just been wherever. Yeah. You know, Clarkson and Nance, like, those guys are playing bit minutes. They're playing, like, Fultz minutes, like, in second and third quarters to spell guys. And LeBron isn't even coming out for that much, you know, and we were talking about this a little bit earlier.

So let's talk a little bit about this minutes thing, which is this, the shortening of the rotation in the playoffs that happens naturally every year. But then there are some coaches who still find creative ways to either alleviate some plus minus stuff. where it's like, oh, we cannot not have Russ on the floor. We can't, like, we're going to die if we have LeBron off the floor. But, like, the Sixers are playing a fair amount of guys. And they're loosening up, like, the rotation a little bit. Washington, Milwaukee, and especially Cleveland, they're just like, look, we have five dudes. We have nothing else.

Six, maybe. And this is it. It's kind of funny because, like, when you look over at the Minnesota game and you see, like, Derek Rosen, and they started the fourth quarter with like all reserves, which is kind of weird for Tibbs. It's just like, you guys are the team that's supposed to have his reputation. But instead, like, John Wall played the entire second half, which is ridiculous.

He also played 44 minutes, and he was obviously very tired. I think it's a function of, like, just those teams just having much heavier expectations. The Sixers are playing with house money. Also, coaches, maybe coach her for their jobs? Yeah. You know, it's like, there's a possible. Brooks, Tibbs.

I'm not saying, like, any of these guys are going to, fire, but those guys are much less strong positions than like pop, Kerr, maybe even Brett after the season? Like, they could decide to clean house in Washington this year, you know what I mean? Like, that's not out of the question. And the Sixers in heat, there was much more of a chess match than anything else. They had a lot of pieces. Maybe like a Tyler Johnson isn't on the level of some of the guys that the Sixers have,

but there was a lot of mixing, maybe a little bit, well, maybe Darya. There's a lot of mixing and matching and just like someone going small. and someone kind of trying to counter that. Whereas a lot of these teams, they really just have their base lineup, or like we said before, just one guy. You have a LeBron, and that's it. Can I ask a quick question? Just speaking of Tyler Johnson before I forget.

My guy caked up. How intense would your work life have to be? How much, much, would you have to love your job? Okay. That you would put off dental surgery. I thought you were going to ask. Tyler Johnson teeth is the second thing that propagates when you put Tyler Johnson into it. Why are we talking about this guy just being like,

I'm just going to be a toothless, vagrant for this entire series. He does have 50 million. There's got to be someone that could create some fronts for him down in Miami. That seems like a thing they do there. We were talking about this before we went on air. The contracts that were doled out when the cap went up, it's like the conversation it's the second night in Vegas.

It's like the second hour of a Mali trip when you're like, let's open a bar in the Caymans. I'm going to write a now. I'm going to write a great American novel down in the Canaan. Not that any of us have done that. No, no, you're going to wait it tonight. I'm going to do it now. Tyler Johnson is totally worth it.

50 million. I love this kid. We'll talk obviously more as we go on about the Thunder and the Cavs. I don't mean this is a bit. Any observations you want to share from Washington, Raptors, or Minnesota Houston? Okay, this is kind of sort of related, kind of unrelated. I'm curious who you guys think is more on the hot seat. seat, Brooks or Donovan.

Billy Donovan? That's a tough one. Yeah. Well, you think Donovan Mitchell? Are we sure Donovan Mitchell can do it in the big stage? Jason is not a big fan of Billy Donovan, and he's been expressing his much. No, no, no, that's not true. I just don't think Billy Donovan... Are you worried you're going to bump into Billy Donovan later? Jason was looking up his contract details before I went on it. He has two years left.

I'll say this about Billy Donovan. I just don't, like, does he have the juice to be like, Russ, I'm going to bench you if you don't do this? Or Mello, you have to, like, I don't think he does, like institutionally. And I feel like his seat is hotter simply for the fact that the next step after either firing or not firing Donovan is like, is Sam Presti any good? So I feel like Sam Presti has to fire Donovan if they flame out because the only other thing after that is people start asking, like, is Sam Presti any good of his job?

So much for blame, yeah. I just want more context because we look at Scott Brooks and he's doing similar things with Washington that he did in Oklahoma City. Yes. I would like to see Billy Donovan in another team setting that doesn't have Ross, where he has such an indominal personality that kind of rules everything. The Bulls, for example. Yes, exactly.

From, like, putting in your own system, Fred Hoyberg, has done pretty well with lesser guys now that Jimmy Butler or some of the other guys are kind of out of there. I would just, to be a fly on the wall for any of these situations of like, what's the difference between Hoyberg and Stevens? What's the difference between Svalstra and Billy Donovan? And could any of these guys, if you switch them, walk up to Russ and be like, you play my way or we're going to trade you or whatever? And that's the big question. Because everybody always says Billy Donovan has this elegant side-to-side offense, but they have Russ. And Russ is always going to be, the thing is that most teams in the NBA would rather have Russ than Billy Donovan.

what I think also plays into it is that Popovich is very much in control of that organization. Whereas Russ is control of the Thunder organization. Well, he has all the leverage. Right, exactly. Nobody's coming to see Billy Donovan coach. Yeah. Palo, did you have a tweet about Russ? First of all, I just want to say for the record, if I had to blog I would put off dental

surgery. Just see you would know that. I appreciate it. But this is a question from Twitter. Justin says, not Justin Barrier, but just another Justin. What do you think Russ like more? a Thunder comeback or his stat line. You guys are wilding, man.

I know. You guys were eating out of this dude's hands for years, just like I did, and then all of a sudden, something happened. Well, here's what happened. People evolve. And now you're like, oh, he's stat hunting.

He's stat hunting. He's not stat hunting. He's not stat hunting. He now he has good teammates where the, like, the reason why. He won that game. Yeah, but he lost a few of the other ones before. The reason why they're down in the first place

is because of him. And now he has the help that everyone, and said he didn't have last year, which is why we all voted for him for MVP. You've been dragging Mello for months. They were saying, they were saying. They were going to emphasize Mello? Well, Paul George specifically. Mello's on the bench for that run.

Okay, okay. I see what you're saying. Look, I just think that, like, if you want to get real about it, I bet that we'd find a lot more stat hunting than we actually think is out there. It's just so happens that Russ is egregious about the rebound. and stealing them with Stephen Adams. But you try to tell me like Dame or towns or any of these guys

don't have incentives in their deals where it's like, Ben Simmons might be stat-hunging, man? If you're the Patriots and like everybody's cheating, you're basically doing the same thing, essentially, like everybody's stat hunting. Yeah, but this is like, I am, but the Patriots were cheating.

That's the difference. Let's do a little bit of NBA fact or fiction. So we have a couple of concepts and you guys tell me, is it fact or is it fiction? And let's start with one. I have no real personal investment in. The Sixers are the best team in the East.

Foof. Yeah, definitely. You've been their favorites. That's fact. Yeah, they are because it's never been against LeBron, but they're so much more complete. And he's averaged this many minutes all season. Now he's playing 44 and he did what he did.

Like, you can't keep this up. It's not sustainable. And this is the least he's ever had to work with. So he's having to do the most. So he's going to go six or six. seven against the Pacers and then he's going to have to play Toronto probably and probably go six six against Toronto or seven against Toronto and then he gets Boston Toronto Toronto right now the howls I can hear them from Washington man like just beat somebody put out of their misery

like that's Washington team is begging to get their asses catch it next on ESPN news Washington Raptors being relegated to ESPN news at six is ridiculous yeah Jason factor fiction I just want I hear from you. I think it's fact, but I'm not like, I'm not authoritative about it. I think the Sixers are the most dangerous team in the East for sure. Just because, like, they're so young. They're so dangerous. And they, like, they have no pressure on them.

They have no pressure on them. They don't care. They play so free and easy. And they, you know, like, they never get tight because they're just like, yeah, we've already come so far. They haven't gotten tight yet. But I feel like the expectations are mounting. Whereas before it was all found money. yeah, we weren't even supposed to be in the playoffs at this point.

But now you have Jojo coming out and saying, well, we're on course to make the finals now. You have the whole Meek Mill thing. There's definitely a buzz around it that's creating... Meek Mill has put more pressure on the Sixers. Too much pressure now. Meek Mill is out. I expect that tomorrow.

Yeah, I mean, he's out of prison. He needs something to, like, go to do now. Let me give you the reasons why this is a fact. I can't see anybody beating them four times in seven games. They've lost once. in like two months. And you're talking about the top line talent that can win games?

I mean, Ben and Joelle are like, we're not talking about Ola Depot and Miles Turner. We're not talking about Donovan and Ricky Ruby. We're talking about the frigging... Magic Johnson and Akeem Olajuwon. I'm ready to move to the Kaman's and open the bar. Let's go. Factor fiction.

The caps will go as far as Tailu takes them. Okay. I'm going to jump in here. And I'm going to say fiction, simply because I don't know what else he has to do here. He's basically playing the guys he has available. George Hill, like, isn't available and he might be, what, their fourth best player? Here are the guys that they did not. He doesn't have a thumb.

He only has nine digits. Here are the guys that they didn't play tonight. Ante Zizich, Chetty Osmond, Tristan Thompson, Kendrick Pershing. Give me the other guys are you mixing. Give me the minutes on Nance Clarkson and Hood. I don't have that box. 18 minutes for Nance, 18 minutes for Nance, 20, a big 2-0 for my guy, Rodney Hood. Same for Jeff Green, Jordan Clarkson, 14 minutes.

J.R. Smith, 0 points, 0 made field goals in 32 minutes, zero free throws. How many like assists and rebound? Well, this is plus minus. Two, plus two. Plus two. I don't understand. He's a positive. Yeah. No, I just don't know what other moves Thai law has available to.

He's basically just throwing whoever's out there, whoever's the hot. like hand at that point. Sedy Osmond should play. What do you think? Yeah, that's a good point. Settie should play. LeBron loves him, yeah. He needs to be ready to chest bump

in when LeBron does something well. Oh my God. We'll talk about that. That was amazing. I think that it's fact in so much as like when he does things like puts Jeff Green back out in fourth quarters. I think that's coaching Maltheasans.

That's crazy. I think it's about practice. I don't think it's that much. I don't think it varies that much. I just don't think anything he's going to do matters that much. Okay, another fact or fiction. And this one, was admittedly written when they were up by about 25 points.

Yeah. The Jazz or the new Spurs. Wow. Yeah, it's hard for me to, at first, like, when I was watching it and they were up, but I was like, fact. Quinn is the new pop, like, Donovan is this new, like, players just going to, like, be in the system and support everything and, like, be all about this team, even though they're in Utah.

Maybe, like, in two years. Two years. Maybe in two years. They're two years away from being two years away. Yeah, and I'm not even saying that they won't win the series. Honestly, I still think that they're going to win the series. I think the Spurs are the new Spurs. That's what I'll say.

This is incredible. Good stuff. Spurs are too dramatic to be the Spurs now. Which is an incredible thing to say in 2018. The Spurs are a drama factory. Well, I mean, but at the same time, they still made the playoffs. And if you look at the team that they put out there in the playoffs, it's just incredible that they were even able to hang.

That last game was down to the wire, even though their third leading score was Rudy Gay. Manu is 40 still keeping them in these games. I mean, what they've done is, low-key impressive. The next, whoever the next Spurs is needs to, they need to win 50 games for 10 years before anybody calls them the next Spurs.

Yeah. I mean, I just think that in terms of manufacturing dudes like Royce O'Neill playing outside of a small market and frankly, like, surviving the exit of, you know, a franchise player,

which I guess the Spurs never really had to grapple with, but never really added a franchise player either outside of anything with the draft. Right. You know, it's really impressive. The last factor fiction, We haven't really talked about this team in a while. Are the Warriors still the team to beat?

The Warriors are still the team to beat. Is that fact or fiction? Yeah, that's fact. I think we just forget about them. And something that Justin and I have been talking about lately is that also they're kind of in the background because it hasn't been as easy for them as it should have been. Like they're definitely still the major threat.

But it's just like, okay, you didn't sweep the spurs. They don't even have quai. Like you said, like Manu's like a guy. who's been bald for like a decade and a half and you're still letting him like wow wow it's just like okay like you guys should have swept them like that much is clear and it's just kind of like their entire season is okay like all of a sudden like step quietly has had like three ankle injuries and it's scary and we don't even know if he's going to be back by the beginning of the next series so nothing's really been easy for them that being said

i mean they still have kevin durant yeah so they are still the team to beat They are the teams beat it. It is a fact. I mean, the Rockets kind of have an easier path. Yeah. Which is the other kind of wrinkle here. Because they don't have to deal with Anthony Davis. Right, yeah.

I mean, the Pelicans, as we've been saying, might be the hottest team in the NBA right now. And they provide match-up problems for the Warriors, especially if Steph isn't going to be there. Whoever comes out of the Jazz Thunder series might have gone to six, seven games now. Yeah. You wonder if the Thunder, as we've seen before,

get into these sort of situations. if you see the jazz who just don't have the top level of talent to kind of keep up with the team like the Rockets, this could be a short series of the Rockets and creates an advantage for them. Do you think that there's a little bit of March Madness going on in these playoffs where we were right on the precipice of Utah, we've got New Orleans in the next round,

we could have Utah in the next round, the expense of Russ, that there could be a little bit of buyer's remorse. Like, you know how sometimes in the final in the NCAA tournament, you're like, oh my God, this Cinderella teams. And then you're like, wait, Duke in Kansas and Kentucky, I'm not watching this anymore. Like, what happens if it's New Orleans versus Utah in the Western Conference finals?

I honestly think that that would be more exciting than some of the Eastern Conference matchups we could have. Some wild Western Conference upset the Apple Park. Honestly, like, I, Paulo and I say this all the time, like, we find Utah very fun to watch.

Donovan's super flashy. Joe Jingles. Joe Jingles. I mean, I think that they're very fun to watch. Pelicans are super fun to watch. The East, though, could have some really, really boring matches. I think that the next round,

It's really actually, and I say this with all sincerity, a shame that the Celtics are not closer to full strength. Oh, for sure. I think it would have just made the Eastern Conference thing so much more exciting if it was Sixers versus Kyrie and then LeBron versus a good Raptors team. And they were firing. They had Van Vliet and they were coasting. And then there was some either LeBron versus Kyrie in the Eastern Conference finals, Sixers like Ben Simmons versus LeBron. That would have been great. Well, along with that dream, it'd be great if the bucks were, you know,

coached by someone who could, like, actually turn their talent. You know, what about, what about Mr. Herald? You don't like Joe Prud's? Joe Prunx. Joe Prudgy sold me a tempo. Joey Nguerunct. It was amazing. I guess the only good side of the East being so down is we get a team like the Sixers.

Like, in any other year, would they pop the way that they have? Like, this is kind of the give and take of it. Yeah, like, if Detroit had, like, kept it together or maybe had Blake for the whole season. invite. Fowling, you have a factor fiction. I got a rockets one. This is no shots of

Sean you, but kind of shots of Sean you. The rockets are soft and we should be worried about them. Whoa. That they had a little bit of trouble, at least with the wolves. Because you all right there was going to be a sweep. So factor fiction are the rocket soft? Yeah.

Yeah. I'm somewhere in between. It's very troubling to me the starts that James Hardin had. Well, the team they probably don't want to face now is the jazz. Like, they're probably reading for Russ and all those guys more than anyone. So because you have Rudy Gobert and Derek Favors,

one of the biggest front lines in the league, we're going to bash Clint Capella and Luke, Richard. God, I can't say his name. Luke Richard Mbamutei might not be available for that series, and it kind of throws them off. I think that while I wouldn't go so far as to call a Rocket Soft, it is notable that the three major figures in that team have never gotten it done. That's all I'm saying.

That's why we're... James Harden disappeared in game six in shock. rocking fashion, Chris Paul never been doing conference finals, and Mike Dantone is like is Mike Dantone. He's like wakes up every day smiling that he didn't have to see Popovich first round. You know honestly though it is kind of hard to call a team soft who like can drive through to the rim like that. Yeah they score 50 points in a quarter and I think the issue with them is they seem like a team that's best when they're like coasting downhill and we haven't seen them get tripped up yet. Like there's not a lot of pedaling uphill with Houston they don't fight through

they pour on these 30-point runs and you're just like, well, I guess that's just where the game's over. But you haven't seen them in this dog fight yet. Yeah, and that'll come. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show, Group Chat is brought to you by Seek. Buying tickets can be complicated and confusing,

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And now, back to group chat. Speaking of these kinds of obstacles that teams have, let's talk a little bit about what kryptonite some of these playoff teams might face. Like, what's the thing that could undo one of these teams? What is it for Houston? Is it a physical team? Is it a team with a big front line? Like, what's their kryptonite?

Yeah, I think it's that. And I think it's what you were alluding to before, just any slight adversity. It seems like earlier in that first round series with the wolves, when things got a little tight, you started to worry about guys like Chris Ball and like in that game one where it went down to the wire because it threw away the ball at the end there.

I do wonder if they get into those sort of situations if that history is going to start to mount, especially with guys like Chris, especially with guys like James Hardin. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's how a series is reffed also, I think, just because of like the way their strategy of relying so much on free throws and threes. So like you just, you'll see the refs play outside.

They have like a reverse bad boys thing. The bad boys used to be like, you can't call everything, so we're just going to foul a shit out of you every play. The rockets are like, we're going to hunt for a foul on every shot, and you're going to have to call some of them. Right. It's kind of, it's kind of, so I don't know. It'll be interesting to see.

We saw a little bit of this tonight with Jamal Crawford, kind of like slamming into Chris Paul standing over. I'm sure that they squash that. Nobody likes Chris Paul, not even like his boys from his old teams. Well, here's the thing. Is Chris Paul, can you put him on tilt? If you get in his head, if you take him out of the game a little bit, don't you think, like, palo? I mean, we've seen over the years, like, people can get under Chris Paul's skin. Yeah, I'm actually really looking forward.

to the Jazz or the Thunder. Like, I feel like both teams could do that in the next round, maybe more so the Thunder given how crazy Russ is. But I think, like, if you want to kind of nitpick the Rockets, I feel like that's the one thing

you could be like, that's something that you could throw them off their game, getting Chris Ball agitated and somewhat. Bring a ghost up, man. Just be like, yo, you guys got to prove you. You haven't made it to the conference final. We're going to freak you out and see if you have

the steel for it. The team, I think, I like, you would expect because they're so young to have a similar problem, but based on the fact that they squared off with a, like, MMA black belt this week, it's like, the Sixers didn't wilt. Yeah.

Like, that last Miami game, they were like, let's slap Ben Simmons in the head, let's undercut him in the first two minutes. Every foul is going to be as hard as possible. We're throwing Bellanelling into the stands, and I'm sure all the Miami fans out there would probably be like, well, there was this and this and this. But the Sixers didn't seem to be, like, phased at all by that situation. So what do you think their kryptonite is?

Like, Jason, can you think of, like, aside from, like, stepping up? on Embed's mask? I mean, just health, like, health? You know? Like, can Embed keep this up? Can he play this type of minutes? What happens when somebody's like, well, what

if I elbow Embed in the face through his mask? Let's just see. Like, does that happen? I'm trying to think of which Celtic would do that. If that didn't happen with Miami, I'm not sure that that's going to happen. Mac is bad. Like, I really think it's health with just so you look

at their lineup. Yeah, because if Joe's not out there or Ben isn't out there for one of those games, against kind of more of an upper-level team, like the Cavs, for instance, I do wonder if they could pull off the same thing, because my kryptonite that I wrote down was talent and experience.

The team that not only has some of the horses to go up against some of those frontline guys that the Sixers have, but they also have the playoff experience that they could lean to, whereas the heat, they kind of had one or the other. Wade, obviously, has been there before, but he just doesn't have the same juice to do that throughout.

Miami, the juice one time with Wade having the game of the season. Yeah. So yeah, it'll be interesting. The thing that's funny, though, when you say that, is if the Sixers face Boston next week, they'll have a similar job that they did with Miami. They're not going to know, Boston does such a good job of throwing these different combos of people at you.

They're not going to be like, oh, yeah, it's like this one guy we're concentrating on, right? Yeah, the thing that Boston, the edge that Boston would have, you could call it an edge against a potential Sixers series. They can throw multiple bodies, like at the Sixers' top players. Yeah, they have guys who are really, They can just give them looks. What team are you most worried about?

Yeah. For the Sixers? Yeah. The Warriors. The 86 Celtics. When they enter into basketball ball, holla, and they only play all time games. I think it's like a LeBron. LeBron's been in the final seven times.

I'm worried about LeBron just being like, F, no, this is my, this is still my run. What do you think about when you joke about the Warriors? Like, the Warriors seem to have been, like, been, like, waiting to be properly motivated. It's got to be Steph. Steff not coming back? 100%. Yeah, I mean, even if he comes back and he's not 100%, I mean, this is the ankle injury.

You know, I'm surprised people aren't putting more gravity on this issue. This was the ankle that almost, like, ruined his career. So there's no, I mean, if it's taking this long, there's no telling if, you know, they're like, okay, it'd be really good if you could just come back as soon as possible. Obviously, it's the playoffs. So if he comes back and he's not 100%, you know what I mean? Like, that's...

I just want to be. what they're going to do when they don't have the best player in the series. Because we saw when they lost that finals. Do you think Anthony Davis is right now playing better than Kevin Durant? I think right now he's playing better than Kevin Durant. He's definitely, the mentality is definitely stronger than Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant is not the aggressor. 80 is a top three offensive player.

He's a top three defensive player. Would you make the argument that Kevin Durant is a top two offensive player and a top five defensive player? Yeah. No, this is a good argument to be happening. You think that the best player, the best player in the series with Rondo and Drew outweighs Kevin with Clay and Dremont. It could. And I think the problem is when you don't have stuff, you just don't have those insurmountable numbers of those type of guys.

When all five of the best warriors are on the court, it's just almost impossible. Like throughout history, we maybe don't have a lineup to counterbalance that. But when he's not out there, he changes what they do a lot. And now maybe you're playing Iguodala like they did in the first round at point guard. And it changes things up. It makes it easier for the Pelicans to play a guy like Rondo and non-shooter. And it makes it easier for them to go a little bit smaller in the back court and maybe try to create an advantage by being smaller than the worst. Being in a death lineup in the way that the warriors actually can't match up with.

The death lineup now is actually Ilyossova Bellinelli. Simmons Reddick and Compton. Does this Warriors team have that Pistons after we won the finals vibe? That some of those teams that we've seen over the last 15 years where you're like, are you a little bit bored with doing this as a group? Or do you think that, because the Durant thing was supposed to be this infusion. Yeah. I think that the question about whether or not they're mentally engaged has been asked a lot.

And I think they've been forced to answer that question. And hence it has become a storyline. Well, Steve Carr commented on any of the storyline. Yes. Yes, I think that, but that felt like almost like it was like challenging. Like it would be like, these guys are still having an amazing season considering the fact that Duran and West and Curry of Miss Time and Draymond's having an off-season.

And he was like, but it's them, it's them not getting, like doing the right things every day. Well, I think like that narrative has kind of always been around Curry. Like, it's just a dude who's like super talented and doesn't need to throw the behind the pass back pass all the time, but kind of does because he like zones out. Right. I think that that's just like the nature of that team and those guys. They're just like super, super, super talent that they can score anytime they want. So they kind of zone out sometimes.

I'm not sure that that's an all-the-way bad thing. You know, that's a good thing for the NBA because we get to see the Warriors in a competitive series. And plus they have, like, you know, that's part of why Draymond is so important to that team. He's the one guy that's like, hey, like, I'm going to talk a lot of shit. So you guys better back me up. Yeah, but he's arguably also. So they're a kryptonite always. You know, so as much as he does, he's also a risk.

Powell, did you have any kryptonites you wanted to throw out there for these teams or any of the teams that are remaining? Just going back to the Sixers for a little bit, I was looking at kind of... By all means. Yeah, I mean, I was getting at their schedule, both through the end of the season. I have a response to this, but go ahead. Okay, but you know where I'm going with this. That they beat up on bad teams. They did, but also, I just don't think, I think you're making the heat out to be something greater than they actually were.

and though I do think the wins were impressive, I don't think they've played a good team yet. I hear you. I respect you. That automatically means you don't, but I'll take it. No, both of those things are true. I think that the sustained amount of excellence that they've been putting forward,

like this run outpaces any, like, oh, but they were beating up on the Mavericks and the Magic and the Hawks. I mean, you can, nobody wins this many games in the NBA or is not good. When the heat or the Warriors go on runs were not like, well, but they were beating

lesser talent. Like, there's a certain point, almost every team is a lesser talent, right? But they've actually, like, won stuff. I'm not saying that the Sixers should have, like, a premature parade down Broad Street. I'm just saying that, like,

show me a team that's gonna beat them. They were also beating. They beat the calves in that run. They've beaten the rockets. They beat the calves handling. Yeah. I also think that compared to a lot of the Eastern Conference teams

that we've been watching, he were, you know, fierce competitors. Yeah. Watch these games, man. Like, does anybody... Are you calling me a broad boy? I'm not calling you a broad boy. I'm just saying, like, you're telling me that the Pacers look better than the Sixers or the

cabs look better than the Sixers. The Sixers are playing, like, physically on a different level than the Cavs. The Cavs are, like, hopefully Cal Cawiver can bail us out if LeBron is, like, sub-superhuman. Yeah. That's fair. No, it's fair. I will say that teams... The thing about the Sixers is...

they have a play style and it fits their players and the coach is totally aligned with what the players want to do and how they want to play and they have a system that works. And that's not a thing that you can say for every team in the East. Cleveland is basically like LeBron Save Us, please, every night. Every second that they're out there. I mean, and the Bucks are like looking for a thing that will work on a consistent basis. The Celtics are decedicts are decimated. And why are we talking about the number one scene in these? And the Rappar? It can't just be like that we're, that, like, what is it? Like, let's actually interrogate it. Why do we

always just shy away from talking about this team? There's just no central tension there that's new. We've been doing this for four years now. With the Rappar, yeah. And I also find... But Raptors fans would say you've been ignoring them for four years. It's not like you guys spent all your Raptors' headlines. Well, I was just banging out Pelicans' news just for a while, so I didn't have time to do it. No, I, and as we've seen in this postseason, we're kind of true. And I also don't like the backlash to that backlash, because it's like, oh, you guys just don't watch. You don't know real basketball, which my counter to that is like, fuck y'all.

I just think, you know, like, it's the best Raptors team in the franchise's history, fine. Like, I need to see you win a series that matters. Yeah. And I need to see you win, like, a first round. series in authoritative fashion. Convincingly. Like, I'm sorry, but we need to see it. We need to see it happen once.

Honestly, because they could very well, they're not going to, obviously, they can't be swept, but they could very well be just like the Blazers, where we were like, oh my God, they're so different, they're a step up, but then it's like in the playoffs, they're so underwhelming. And I'm not saying they have been so far, but you could easily see them performing like that. Two, two against the Wizards. Yeah. Two-two against the Wizards who, like, hated each other as recently as five minutes ago and, like, look on the verge of falling apart at any given moment.

Really quick, before we go, I do want to do just some exit interviews. One-line exit interviews. You guys have been pounding away on these. Basically, as soon as a team gets eliminated from the playoffs, Haley or Palo writes, like, what basically their season met and what they have to do going forward. So let's talk about just a couple of the eliminated teams. San Antonio Spurs, exit interview. What do you guys think is next for the Spurs?

Obviously, the Kauai question mark is enormous. Not even setting Kauai aside because it just would change the next 10 years of this franchise if they trade him. What do you see for the Spurs right now? I think obviously the Kauai thing is tied to this, but I think the coaching question is interesting because all of their assistants are being rumored to a bunch of different jobs. So it's like, okay, if that is very, having such a turnover, what does that mean for pop and what does that mean for the direction of the franchise to do in terms of rebuilding or re-upping or whatever they choose to do? I think that's

also a big question. Yeah, his time at St. Antonio was supposed to be unofficially tied to this Kauai window. Yeah. Like, I think he got to the end of the manu, Paul, Tim, and Paul, sorry, Tony, Manu and Tim thing. And people were like, oh, his Popkin or retire? He's like 68. Maybe he'll just go coach TMSA. And then it was like, but Kauai gives them this window. window. And that does impact things a little bit, I think. The other thing is also like all of his assistants are getting interviews now. Yeah, yeah. And so I wonder, like, not only are those guys liable to leave, but like what other guys are able to kind of leak out of this team and start to go full-

They're about to lose like three or four guys from their bench too. Right. Give me a quick Wolves exit interview. Well, I mean, I think that it might be a little premature to think that Tibbs is on the hot seat. But would you call this season a success? You know, I was as recent as like when they beat Denver and it was like super exciting. I was like, okay, they're in the playoffs. Like that's enough.

But honestly, it's kind of tough. All the glory goes away when you get your ass kicked in a, you know, historic 50 point third quarter. So I think that in the end it actually wasn't. And I think now they're kind of realizing that they're a little bit stuck in the mud. You know, they have these three guys that they were supposed to build a, this team on and this summer Butler's up for an extension. So if they offer him the max and they offer Carl the rookie max extension, they'll be in a thunder situation where they have three guys make all the money. And the sucky thing is, I mean, obviously they have to do with Kat. I'm not sure about

Butler because by the time that that extension would start, he'd be 30. So I'm not sure if that's the move. So Butler gets hurt a lot. Yeah, exactly. And the the- Ballard didn't play in the at least the fourth quarter to night. No. And also he had that stretch where he was hurt this season and the problem is is that they're already locked into the one guy who they should have you know out of the three would let go of yeah that's the big question can you trade wiggins at this point and at that point for what there's a lot of toxic assets this summer right there's guys like not toxic in terms of their personalities but guys who i'm just like i have no idea what the market for white side could be somebody threw somebody threw out the king somebody threw out the kings

I was like, the kids can't be that stupid. They need another center, like, really bad. That was you. But like, that's the thing is that, like, you're not wrong. And maybe you could talk Cuban when he strikes out on every free agent again into going for him or something like that. Yeah. But like, what are we talking about here?

Yeah, see you get a Nerlin's Noel. Can I interest be in a Hazan Whiteside? Yeah. And who's the nets that you're going to dump all this on? You know what I mean? Exactly. Who's the nets of like this summer? Yeah, that's a really good question.

All right, we're going to go on to our mail bag now. So we're going to answer some of your questions. And, pal, you're going to ask the questions. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so first one from Twitter, Vance Williams asks, would Houston Philly be the ultimate Rap City NBA Finals? Rhapsody as in like BET's Rap City? That's a really good question.

Great question. I mean, Brooklyn versus, like a New York-Brooklyn Eastern Conference series would be the ultimate Rap City one or in Atlanta, New York, Eastern Conference Finals. But Houston Philly has like, I mean, it would be Mori with the Grublin's. ghost of hinky, it would be a lot of, like, there's a couple of players that have been traded back and forth in that Houston situation. Oh, Warriors, too, the Bay Area. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Dave Dawa himself is from the Bay Area. Toronto, Drake. Toronto, Drake, like, won't stop talking to John Wall, and it's just, like, when they mic him up, or the mic is close to him, and you hear Drake's voice, I'm like, it's not a great shit-talking voice. No. You know, it's not that intention.

Shout it to Drake's Star Trek windbreaker today. What's the next question you got? All right, next one from Periscope at Handsome Cheetah wants to know, yeah. Is that my guy? Who looks more like a 1980s mobbed up lawyer? Joe Prunty or Billy Donovan? Joey Prunes. Uh, Quinn Snyder.

Joey Prunes. Wow, Joey Prunes. Can we please start calling him that? Joey Prunes. I mean, Phibbs also has to be in there. This is a deep class. He definitely underboss material. What do you think, Prunty?

Is he like, Prunty is the accountant. He's the account. He's the account. Frontie's the accountant who loses the book. Yeah. That has all the figures in it. Billy Donovan, the Count Chocula here is not that mafia to me. I don't know.

He needs to take it low. I've been saying that for a while. And Tibbs is just like, Tibbs is just like Wire Season 2. Yeah. He's just like on the docks. That's good. What's the next one? So from Periscope Adam Frizzell,

would you rather have Carmel Anthony on your team or drink a gallon of R.B sauce? A gallon? Yeah. A gallon is too much. Yeah. I've had mellow on my team. So I guess I would drink. So I'm drinking the Arby's.

I've had it. I've seen mellow on my team. It's a tough look. It's fine sometimes very rarely. And then the rest of the time it's bad. Would you describe the arc of your mellow fandom? What was the most hopeful you ever was? When I thought that Jackson was going to really make him take a pay cut.

When he's really, when I thought the height of your mellow fandom also involved with him Giving up money. Yeah, I thought when I really thought, wow, Phil Jackson's going to be like, do you want to win or do you want to make money? And then I thought that Mello would really be like, yeah, let's put a team together. Put a team together. Like, I'm going to take a pay cut. Let's like really assemble this squad. Let's make a run at it.

And then he was like, and then it was like, it's $5 million less than the max. You guys are wildly. Shout out to him opting in this summer. He's going to opt in. What's the Chris Rock line? Like, that tiger went tiger? No, it's just. Mello, man.

I know. Melo's not trying out. It's not the poison pill. What's the next one? Okay, so the next one from Twitter at Colt underscore Gerties. Are you reading these Twitter names before you say them? Because I feel like you're like... No, I'm definitely not.

I probably should. Yeah. But you know what? It is what it is. What Game of Thrones character would you compare to round one Ben Simmons? It's, it is round one. So he's Rob Stark. He's winning a lot of battles, but we need to see.

That's good. Let's see. You think he's a Ravstar? I mean, does this guy make it to season three? Let's see. What could happen to him? Do you know something I don't know? I'm just saying.

With that level of mystery, I think we will wrap it up there for Haley, Jason, Justin, Pallow, Shocker, Keith, everybody in the booth. Thank you for hanging out with us on a nice Wednesday night of NBA basketball, Thunder Forever. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.