The Ringer NBA Show - LeBron Keeps Feuding, Celtics Keep Soaring, Clippers Keep Falling (Ep. 162)

Episode Date: November 14, 2017

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor question whether LeBron James’s comments about Dennis Smith Jr. are true (1:55) and analyze how potent the Milwaukee Bucks’ defense really is (8:30). Then, they dissect the winning ingredients that make up the Boston Celtics (14:25), consider the Detroit Pistons as a sustainably good team (22:55), highlight Anthony Davis’s dominant string of games for the New Orleans Pelicans (31:00), project how the Utah Jazz will adjust to losing Rudy Gobert (39:00), and diagnose the extent of the Los Angeles Clippers’ problems (42:00). Afterward, they look ahead to the college basketball prospects who may make an impact in the NBA (48:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Chris, sometimes I feel like I need a list nicknames for you, but I don't have any except for Verna. So everybody calls you Verna, though. I was going, Chris. I don't mind. Your name is given to nicknames. I saw somebody, somebody hit you up on a, I believe it was Instagram and tagged me last week and called you Kevin O' comment. Ah, yeah, yeah, only because I congratulated you on your new thing with the Grizzlies. I like Kevin O'Call.

I like Kevin O'Comond. You are a very positive commenter, Kevin O'Common. Yeah, positive commenter, yeah. That's true. I try to be positive, Chris. All right. So the events of last evening all surrounded this. It's a weird circumstances with the Cavaliers going to play against the New York Knicks

because it started off. The day started off so strangely with the cabs riding on the subway and it being chronic via social media. And then you also had these whole LeBron comments hanging out there that he had made in Dallas about how the New York, that Dennis Smith, the point guard, rookie point guard for the Mavericks, should be a Nick. So that raised the ire of the Knicks. They started to comment on it.

And now the game's taking place last night. And Frankie Nicotine does the little bump with the LeBron. LeBron pokes his chest out. Now, canthers in the mix. And we've got quite a little fracas. It looks like, you know, the MSG is going bananas. And it looks like this Knicks team, this young Knicks team, is really going to stand up for themselves against LeBron.

LeBron had tried to clarify and say it was more of a dig at Phil Jackson and then kind of poked the bear in his canter a little bit. But anyway, as that all plays out last night, what are you thinking? I'm thinking to myself that this is just beautiful a lot. in the sense that like we got lebron at madison square garden kind of leading this comeback along with kyle corver just draining threes in the fourth quarter and then nicks do it a lot of youngish teams do not that they're really young but some of their core guys are where they just kind of crater in the fourth quarter uh lebron and the calves showed what they can do when they actually play with a whole lot of effort

on the defensive end of the floor but also when corver's really on fire like he was last night it was just overall, just a fun, fun day of basketball. It reminded me of a reality show in some ways. Like you mentioned all the storylines throughout the day. It led up to just this big comeback for the Cavaliers. It was exciting. I was thrilled watching the game last night. And it's like, if you didn't watch the game, Pat Maldowney, who works for our social

team at the ringer, he tweeted last night, the Cavs Nicks condensed game on League Pass is an absolutely thrilling 15 minutes of basketball. it's beautiful. So I would recommend you just watch that if you have league pass and if you didn't watch the game last night. I bet it's a blast. Let's do a rewind to when this all began and that was the LeBron comments. And it was meant, I think, as praise for Dennis Smith rather than a shot at the Knicks or who they drafted. And a shot at Phil Jackson too. For sure. All right, let's strip all hurt feelings away. Is he right? Will the Knicks live to regret not taking Dennis Smith. What do you think? No, I like both guys. I like both guys a whole lot. Maybe maybe one of them

turns into like this, you know, ridiculous star level player, but I didn't have them all too separated as prospects on my draft board. I had Smith ranked 7th, Nilakina ranked 9th. They're pretty much equals in my eyes, honestly. And I think there's just different types of players. So maybe Smith ends up way better. But Nilakina's defense is outstanding. I said last night that if he, doesn't get any better from what he is today, he's going to have a long career because his defense is that filthy. So look, Smith is better right now, but at the same time, he's about a year older. And Nilakina is somebody who is very raw on the offensive end of the floor, but he's also got great passing vision and good passing accuracy. It's just his handle needs to get better

and his shot needs to get better. But Smith needs to get better at things on the offensive end, too, including passing and decision making. And his defense also needs to get better as well. So it's like they're kind of inverses of each other in some ways as players. And I think both of them could pan out to have very, very good, high productive long career. Smith probably has a chance of being a superstar, a more traditional point guard superstar because of the athleticism. So in that sense, LeBron's right. But at the same time, Nilakina could be a terrific point guard as well.

Okay. Well, now I'm really going to put your feet to the fire. I'm not letting you, I'm not letting you play both sides here. It's not playing both sides, though. Hold on that. Both guys are really good. All right. Then hold on a second.

This is what I'm doing. You are playing both sides because you are saying they're both really good. Here's what I want to know. The pick is there. The Knicks have the pick. Smith is available and Frankie Nicotine's available. Which one do you take? And I'm throwing Donovan Mitchell or Monk or any of the others out.

You are just, you know you are taking a point guard. Which one do you select? I'd be taking Dennis Smith. because he was the highest ranked player I had. I had him seventh guy on my board and that's the guy I would have taken. But at the same time, but you do agree with LeBron. Yeah,

I already said I agree that Smith probably has the higher chance of becoming a superstar level player because of his athleticism. So LeBron's right. That's fair. I guess I phrased it. I phrased it, will they regret? Will they live to regret? Okay.

Yeah. Your answer was no. I don't think they'll regret it, but Smith could end up the better player for sure. I think just because of his, I mean, anybody who's watched him in Dallas, I mean, the way he pops as an athlete, I mean, the way his, how quick his first step is, Smith is a guy who could be like one of those superstar scorers. Doesn't mean he'll get there, but he has the upside too. And you can't say that whatever guy. Like, I don't think you can say that about Nilakina. Nilakina doesn't have the upside to be a superstar score. And that's really what I think a lot of people want in a point guard in today's league. But Nilakina, I don't think. I don't. think Smith has the upside to be a high-level top-notch defender like Nilakina does. I don't think

Dennis Smith necessarily even has the passing vision that Nilakina does. So I mean, they're just different types of point guards, different types of players. In some ways, like it's almost, it's almost hard to compare them because they're so different, even though they play the same position, the same general position. But I mean, look, I take Dennis Smith for sure. So in that sense, LeBron's right. They're all going to regret not taking down of him Mitchell anyway. He's looking damn good, dude. I have all the stock. I have all the stock.

I'm not selling any of it. I'm not selling it. And now, especially if they're going to be losing for a couple of weeks here, somebody's got to get to a bucket for him. He is certainly, I think you could look up and he has a pretty outstanding two weeks as his role grows even more. And they lean on him more as a score. Nothing really else of premier interest last night happened in the,

NBA. Obviously, I watched the, I watched the Bucks Grizzlies game. And last week on the NBA show, one of the things we talked about when they attained Bledso is I said, I think there's going to be these stretches where they can really strangle you out defensively. Watching them in the first half, I wondered where that was. And then they came out in the second half, the Bucs did, and the Grizzlies simply could not score on them. And in fact, until maybe two minutes left in the third quarter, they were sitting on like a seven. point quarter or something like that. And they just have this. If kid can really harness them, like I said, Kev, if he can really harness them and what they've got now and get them all to play on a string, their link is something that just cannot be replicated by virtually anyone. And if they can score the buckets to set up in half court defense, because they're not as good in transition, oddly, even though they are long and athletic.

But when they get set up in that half court defense, there are certainly times where it looks like it is so hard for you to find any available space because they're just, it feels like if they all stretched out their arms, it would go all the way across the court. So I was pretty impressed with that at least. And there's signs there, though their defensive metrics so far have not been good. And weirdly, you know what? When we had that discussion last week, Kev, I got a lot of feedback from Bucks fans saying, yeah, they'll play like that and Bledsoe will really help as soon as they fire a kid.

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, have you gotten that sentiment a lot that Bucks fans are out on kid? It seems to be mixed. I think, I think both Milwaukee, I mean, I didn't watch last night's game, so I can't speak to that, but speaking generally, their defensive system two years ago, three years ago, whenever it was, they had like a top six, top seven defense. In some ways, offenses have maybe figured that out because it's so overly aggressive the way they really hedge or trap on so many pick and rolls. sometimes they lazily switch screens. They're always kind of funneling their entire defense to the strong side, and that opens up corner threes, or it opens up, passes to the opposite side of the floor, which creates defensive rotations, which if there's some metric I've seen,

it was in the locker room of a team, and I forget which team it was, but they had a metric on their wall written. It said, you know, there are points per possession for passes from one side of the court to their other, And it was like, when we have three passes, we score X amount of points per possession. And what I'm getting at is with Milwaukee is you can get their defense rotating because they're so overly aggressive. And I think that's one of their problems where just passing over their length has been a difficult thing to stop for Milwaukee. But at the same time, like you said, last night's game, which I didn't see, when their defense is on and when they're forcing turnovers and when they're really just wreaking havoc in the passing lane, you see the potential of an elite defense. So in that sense, it's like, yeah, sure.

Maybe right now it's horrible. They have like a bottom five-rank defense. They don't do much of anything well if you look at any defensive metric, period. They're picking all defense is horrendous. But at the same time, the upside is so significant with the pieces that they have. So maybe you just stick with Jason Kidd. Have some patience and see if they can figure things out on the defensive end. Because the personnel is unreal if it does work out.

Yeah. Yeah. And I know the metrics aren't. good. I'm saying an eye towards the future, which is when the stakes are the highest, the game slows down. And there are going to be those segments of the game that they can make it really difficult, simply personnel-wise. The only thing I would say is they are slight, meaning the guys are super long, but I feel like they need a little toughness, right, maybe in the paint, because there's nobody that really stops you from going to the basket.

And that was, I mean, last night it was just a function of it. You know, I'm aware you didn't see it. But anybody can look at like the league leaders last night. And Tyreek Evans had 27, most of which were all just straight line layups. Once he would beat a man, there's nobody there to offer the resistance. And they got a lot of, you know, it's like Hansen. They got a lot of Don Maker. They got a bunch of like, they're really tall and they're really long.

But man, they're skinny. And you can body these guys. and if they run up against somebody that's willing to get a little physical with them, they could use somebody with some toughness, somebody with some bulk on that team that could really take them over the top. That's true, but at the same time,

I think in today's league, the best type of room protection you can have happens on the perimeter. And they've just been turnstiles, you know, on the perimeter, which has really put their bigs in very compromising positions on the inside. So I think if you have locked down guard perimeter defenders,

nobody can stop the elite point guards in the league, but if you can at least steer them into a defense or put them into a less advantageous position, I think that's the best type of room protection that you can have. And that's where hopefully for the bucks, Eric Blutzo helps over the course of the season because he's probably get the chance of being their best permanent defender if he's able to get himself all the way back to what he was early with the Sons

and what he was with the clippers. That will kind of have a domino effect on the rest of their defense. he can but at the same time everybody else needs to as well everybody else on that team needs to defend at a higher level on the perimeter better man-to-man defense and just not allow that penetration because that's what leads to kickout passes that's what leads to close outs that's what leads to uh offensive player attacking a close-out swinging the ball for three that's what allows so many open shots is when that defense gets moving so i think it all needs to start from the top with their perimeter d and clearly fun to watch yonis who had another big game and he's just he's so

clearly always the best player on the court. All right, I'm going to ask you five questions about things that are going on in the league right now. The first of which is we have this intensely long win streak that the Celtics are on. It is a 12-game win streak. They have won without Kyrie Irving. They have won without Al Horford. Obviously, they've won all of them without Gordon Hayward in the fold. I would suppose they're pretty big favorites tonight and they're playing against the Brooklyn Nets who are having to make their way without DeAngelo Russell, I would be surprised that the win streak does not go to 13. How has the 13 game win streak happened in your mind? What are the most significant things in your mind about, I'm sorry, the 12 game win streak so

far? Don't want to jump the gun against the Nets, Chris. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, really. I mean, in some ways, you really don't because you never know. But at the same time, I mean, I think it's really two main things. A, Brad Stevens, B, defense. Just this mixture of personnel in the defensive end of the floor. They have so many long, athletic guys that know how to make the right plays defensively. Guys like younger players like Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown have been terrific on the perimeter for them. Shemi O'Jolay as well. I mean, I mentioned guard defense in regards to Milwaukee Bucks. Just look at Boston as well. Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier have been terrific on the defensive end of the floor as usual. Aaron Baines has been a high energy, really productive, reliable big man for them in the middle. Again, like you mentioned, that's the type of guy. The Bucks are lacking. Al Horford is one of the best defensive big men in basketball. They have just so many good players on the defensive end of the floor really up and down their roster. Even Kyrie Irving is defending well. Even someone like Daniel Tice on the back of their

bench has been reliable as well. It's just, it's crazy how they don't have any weak links on the defensive end of the floor. So that's the main thing. And then offensively, they haven't even been great offensively yet. Partially because Kyrie shot his three-pointer hasn't fallen so far this season. Partially, obviously, because the lack of Gordon Hayward, partially because guys have missed games. But at the same time, I think that's what it comes down to where their defense has really been the foundation of their success. But then Brad Stevens has helped put guys into good positions on the offensive end of the floor. It's been remarkable that they've somehow won 12 games in a row. They could have lost a lot of these and probably should have lost a couple of them.

But at the same time, it doesn't take back from the fact this team is playing at a super high level. The other thing you can say regarding the offense is, hey, this is like the first 15 games that these guys have ever played together for the most part. You know what I mean? Like they're all, they got all new players. The defensive thing is surprising because it does speak to scheme. There's two, there's two things. Number one, they lost Bradley. and Crowder. So I think if people thought they might take a downturn numbers wise, that it might be them, that it might be on that end of the court, simply because Bradley is an outstanding perimeter defender. And Crowder, the metrics, say whatever you want about Crowder, and especially

how he is disappointing so far with Ceds, the defensive metrics for the Celtics with Crowder out on the court were very, very good last year. Right? He defensive data is so bad. Whether you want to attribute it to him or not, the number, he was a big plus minus guy for them. I think what we're seeing now speaks Chris to kind of the weakness and the reliability in some certain defense's statistics because anybody with two working eyeballs or one watching

Jay Crowder could see how his defense has degraded over the past couple seasons ever since his spraying MCL. He's not the same guy he once was. He's often flat foot on the perimeter. Guys blow by him. We talked about that with Milwaukee, how guys on the perimeter need to be their room protectors. Crowder, Crowder has gotten worse in that sense. And I think some of the, I think in regards to Bradley, he is an elite defender. And for him, the metrics don't really say that he is an elite defender, which is just blows my mind in some ways. Because again, anybody who watches Bradley can see how much, how many problems he gives a smaller guard, uh, smaller guard frienders, but that's the issue. It's like against larger players. On Sunday, I believe it was,

Boston against Toronto, you kind of saw the difference in having a longer, taller guy, a guy like Jaylon Brown defending Demar de Rosen rather than having to put Bradley on him. That's where I think kind of the difference has been. They're just bigger. And so if that can be used as a knock against Bradley, then that's fair. I think that's a fair statement to make. But how he, what he does against guards is terrific. But I think the size Boston has has made a difference for them this season. And just to be frank, I think O'Jaleigh and Jalen Brown are both better defenders than Jay Crowder. It's crazy that O'Jaleigh, Jailen Brown, and Tatum can all be playing minutes for that team that's got a 12-game win streak going on. I mean, it speaks to, hell, maybe Danny A. Maybe Danny Age's

brain doctor knows. But typically, it's very hard to meld in young, players like that and win a lot. Typically, if you're going to play a bunch of young guys, you're not winning a lot. Even we have seen, I mean, outstanding young players in the past, and I get it, right? They're getting to play with Kyrie Irving and Al Horford and some other guys. But generally, you know, we, you know, Westbrook Durant and Jeff Green and that group, they didn't win, like, immediately. And there's been tons of teams. that had good young talent on them. But that roster construction and those,

I think it speaks, I actually think that it speaks to those particular players and how mature they are. And I feel that way, I've seen the, you know, when I see interviews with Brown, when I see interviews with Tatum,

these are incredibly impressive kids. I mean, really impressive. You can tell they're, they're more mature than most their age. And they got really good heads on their shoulders. And so I think that, you know, listen, those kids have been, they've been unbelievable.

They've been unbelievable. You typically don't see it. You don't see young players being able to win like that. That's a good point about the maturity. Like we've talked about this on this pod before, about how, you know, some of these 19-year-old kids come in, they have the maturity of a 16-year-old. Some of them have the maturity of a 16-year-old.

22 year old. And so that's true for some of Boston's guys that they got. Oh, yeah. I've covered all kinds of kids that were either one and duns or right, you know, maybe, maybe two and duns. But you're talking, you know, 19, 20 year olds. And I mean, I don't want to belabor at this point, but there is so much that goes into the transition of becoming an NBA player, that it is so much more than just the basketball

and playing more basketball. and games than you are used to in the past. Most of these kids, you know, for the first time, they've got all kinds of money in their pocket. They're traveling. They're on the road. Chicks are waiting in hotels for them. You got, a lot of them have never, you know, even seen a checkbook in their life. And now all of a sudden you've got to pay bills and you're out on your own for the first time. And there's just so much that goes into, it's not easy to be a rookie, right? And you got to have a good group around you and people help to make it happen. And that's all outside of the basketball stuff. So anyway, I'm super impressed with those guys.

My buddy David Thorpe, formerly of ESPN, had a funny tweet this morning that was, well, I found it humorous. Given how much these two particular individuals have been hammered for their lack of defensive prowess, that Kyrie Irving placed 31 minutes on the best defense in the league and Carmelo Anthony plays 32 minutes for the second best defense in the league. These are things that you would have never suspected, right? Yeah, that's true. Next thing, we had touched on Avery Bradley. Question number two.

All right, so we touched on the Celtics and their win streak. The Pistons are 10 and 3 and they have now won five games straight, have the Detroit Pistons. they are there. I mean, pretty much everybody else at the top of the Eastern Conference standings are those that we would have

suspected, right? There's nobody, like, if we were at the beginning of the season, we would add the Celtics there, we would add the wizards there, we would add the raptors there, and then we would add the bucks and the calves, maybe the heat up there. So,

you've got a little party crashing going on early in the season with the magic and the Knicks, but the Pistons are the ones that stand out the most because they're eight and two in their last 10. They've won five games in a row. What do we make of the Pistons and how big a believers are we in what they've got going on lately? I mean, I don't think they're going to sustain their win percentage, but at the same time, what they're doing just feels more sustainable to me. I touched on this earlier in the month when it was like super early in the season, but kind of some of the tweaks that they've made to their play distribution

on the offensive end of the floor. They've gotten a little bit more creative, more dribble handoffs, less post-ups. They're not leaning on the pick and roll quite as much, so they're not overdoing it. I just think their offense has been a bit more dynamic. And so for me, on the offensive end of the floor, again, I don't know if they're going to stay as like a top 10 offense, but I think they can at stay in that range and they just have some better personnel i mean andre drummond has performed way better this season tobias harris has taken a huge step in his game avery bradley is better the contavius called will pope and he's been really terrific for them on both ends of the floris he's scoring when he needs to averaging about 20 points for game this month and also playing his typical typical terrific

defense i got like anthony tollover getting him back after they had him a couple years ago he's been solid off their bench rookie luke canard had a great great great, great night against Miami the other night. Really one of his first chances of the season to really get extended minutes. They just have a lot of good players. So, I mean, I don't know if they're going to continue being a team that wins 10 out of every 13 games or like three quarters of their games. They're not going to be that great. But at the same time, I think they're a legitimately good team.

And if you're a Pistons fan, that has to be super exciting considering the low expectations heading into the season. I don't know about you, Chris, but like, when you think about this Pistons team, doesn't it, doesn't it seem like this is almost what some people thought was going to happen last season or the year before that? Whatever it was, they had their good season. Two years ago, I believe it was. 2015-16 season, 2015-16 season, they had the 44 and 38 record. So it was last season, I think a lot of people expect them to have kind of a good follow-up year. But instead, it's happening one year later. Yeah, because I think that I think generally we thought that Stan Van Gundy's a good coach, you know?

Stan Van Gundy's a good coach. And maybe his general manager prowess had been in question, right, when he is then in charge of running everything. But they did not take, they had good enough players, we thought. And I know they got kind of riddled by injury. But things went really wrong with them. last year. I think you could win, you mentioned him in passing, you could win a pretty damn good bar bet if you went around asking people who the Pistons leading scorer is. And you mentioned him, Tobias Harris, he is leading them in scoring. He's averaging 20 points a game. And Kev, the numbers,

he is shooting 48% from the field, but more shockingly, 51% from three on six attempts a game. I mean, at least 13 games into the season, Tobias Harris is an all-star. He's been awesome, dude. I think Tobias Harris is always a guy. Like, we watched, and, you know, he scored 17 points for game twice in Orlando. He scored a little over 16 points per game in the last two years in Detroit. I mean, just the broad counting numbers have always put him kind of in that above-average class. But watching him, he's always been a guy where, especially,

in Orlando, he was leaned on at the end of games. And sometimes he had those moments where he looked the part of a guy you would lean on over the course of a full game, a guy that he felt capable of entering that 20 points per game threshold. And that doesn't make him necessarily a great player. And when I say great, I mean great. But he's a very, very good player, only 25 years old, just entering his prime in Detroit. I think in some ways he kind of got forgotten about. a little bit. He's not going to be your centerpiece, but I think he can be one of the guys that you have on a really, really good team. And right now the pistons are really, really good. Well, and you and I had talked about this over the course of the last season, where with some of

of these guys, you look up and it is five or six years into the career. Maybe, you know, I think there was a common refrain years ago that you would know what a player was within three or four years, right? You'd pretty well know what his ceiling was. But that's been changed. And clearly it was changed with Steph Curry. But whether it was Steph Curry that we talked about or whether it was even Gordon Hayward, the opinion of him got much, much higher, you know, more. seasons into his career, Kyle Lowry, Mike Conley,

Isaiah Thomas even, you know, from last year, that some of these guys, it might take five or six years and the right fit for them to realize whatever their possible potential is. And certainly, again, we're early in the season, but it feels like Harris has really found the perfect spot for him within, because the team is winning and he's putting up the numbers. And sometimes it just takes a little bit longer, right? You would have never suspected that we'd be talking about Tobias Harris being an all-star, but at least right now, if I had to make an all-star team, he's absolutely on it. And Reggie Jackson's a more mature version of himself the season as well. I think that's been an important development for them.

I'm considering the problems he's had the past two seasons or past two and a quarter seasons in Detroit ever since he was traded there by OKC. He's really, he's really, really kind of looking like the guy you would have hoped he would have become, playing a more controlled brand of basketball. And that's been huge for them as well. Yeah, I need to go back and look. At some point I am because it feels like that there have been quite a few that we have said year six, if I recall our conversations from last year,

that there just happens to be that there were several players where their sixth season could have been a leap. usually we think of the leap happening in year two or year three or whatever but that year six seemingly there have been a lot of guys that have hit that and i wonder if that is in conjunction in some ways with more of the one and duns you know that now yeah year six now happens to be 25 year olds yeah and so that used to be year three and four for guys in in large part the more guys that were staying around but now you're you're kind of getting into that prime age, maybe when you're, you might have five or six years into your career before you're, right, you're hitting what would be your prime and sometimes possibly even younger.

All right, let's move on to the next one, which is the Pelicans are, as if the playoffs started today, they would be a playoff team. And they have, they're eight and six as of right now, a tick over.

over 500 and you have seen it feels like on a regular basis you are seeing these Anthony Davis numbers come across the ticker and they're just crazy. I mean he is averaging 26 points so far this season he is averaging 12 rebounds he is averaging three assists he is averaging two blocks and he's averaging a steal so far he did not have a big game last night against Atlanta scoring wise, but he ends up at the end of the game. You look and it's 13 points, 10 rebounds, 7 assists, 4 blocks. And not long ago, he had gone through a crazy, you know, five-game streak. Obviously, we have always hoped that Davis is a kid that can stay healthy throughout.

But do you think that there are signs now? and they've won four of their last five games. Do you think that there are signs now that the Davis Boogie thing can work and that we could look up and they could be a real problem for somebody as the season goes on and possibly a playoff team that we did not suspect? It's certainly possible,

but I think it's like we might have hit on this before where it's really everything else. I think Davis and Boogie can coexist. and I think they can work together, but in some ways, a big part of it is the surrounding personnel. And I thought last night was interesting with Elvin Gentry,

the way they kind of ended that game. Boogie didn't play much at all the last five, six or seven minutes or so. It was Anthony Davis surrounded by four shooters on the floor where Davis was just rolling down the lane, getting triple-teamed, basically, because nobody could stop him because he's such a high-level elite,

Hall of Fame caliber talent. And that was creating open shots for everybody else on the floor. Pelicans were draining threes. Holiday hit hit one. I believe Darius Miller, I think had three, two or three, three pointers over the last five, six minutes of the game. They just surrounded Davis shooters. And the thing is, is will that sustain for these guys? Very possible.

You know, I mean, they certainly have talent. Rondo's back. We'll see how he helps as his minutes workload increases. maybe he'll work as a stabilizer for them. I think they are just such a fascinating team, though. I mean, do you think of every team in the league, they are kind of the experiment that you were most excited to see how it pans out? Because I feel that way.

I want it to work, and I'm excited to see how it pans out. I've been a huge Davis guy for years and years. Clearly the problem with Anthony has been able to. to stay on the court, that whole availability thing. And here's what worries me, even about the recent ones. And it's not like they've beaten a who's who. You know, they lost their game at Toronto, but they were right there at the end. But there are other wins recently have been Chicago, Indiana, the clippers who are really swooning.

And then that one, with that one point went last night against Atlanta. But the thing that concerns me, Kev, is the minute total. in those five games for Davis are 41, 41, 38, 40, 38. Yeah. I mean, I get that he's got to play that for you to win, but I don't know if I, especially with a guy that we have not seen be available for a high, high, high percentage of games season in, season out. I don't know if I wouldn't be a little more careful with that guy

than playing him 40 minutes every single night. And honestly, you're seeing this a lot around the league. I mean, you're seeing LeBron. It's like these coaches, they, they, and this is, you know, this goes back to the credit that Popovich, he has created a scenario in which he can even play zero minutes for his best players and still be able to get wins. But, you know, to harken back to what we were talking about earlier with the Greek freak, he plays massive minutes. It feels like he's almost never out of the game. and the same goes with LeBron and now it's kind of like Davis

is being treated like that too. I mean, you're talking big minutes that are being logged by these guys and God, I hope he holds up, but I don't know if rocking him out there for 41 minutes every single night is the best

mode of operation if you want him to be able to give you 75 games. It's interesting. You mentioned the minutes workload that of the the top 13 guys, you know, in minutes per game this season, five of them play for the same team. You got cousins, Holiday, and Davis all on the same team. You got Yana San Antonio Accompo and Chris Middleton, both in the same team. You got Jimmy Butler, Andrew Wiggins,

both in the same team. You got Damien Lillard and C.J. McCollum both in the same team. You got James Hard and Trevor Areza, both in the same team. And then you got LeBron. I think there's six on the same team. And then LeBron's the – LeBron and Paul George are the singular one. So five on the same team, two guys, singular. So it's like most of these guys that are playing the highest minutes in the league

come from the same groups of teams. I mean, like you said, you're not going to see Greg Popovich Spurs players up there. But I think you're seeing – what you're seeing right now is, I think, a high risk gamble by some of these coaches playing Davis or Antona Kumpo, but at the same time, they're kind of coaching for their jobs in some ways in the sense where if you're playing Yana's into the Kumbo for only 30 minutes per game, yes, maybe that is, I mean, not maybe, that isn't his best interest for his career. It is in a player's best interest. That's the hard part, right? Yeah. You have, what's the most important? What's the most important

thing to you. And for guys that have real stability, real confidence from their front office, they feel like they're in lockstep with them. They're not worried about their job. The most important thing for them is

that you have that full roster available for you when the stakes are the highest, which is the end of the season. But unfortunately, the stakes become the highest tomorrow night in Orlando. though.

You know what I mean? Like for for some of these guys, they really feel like if they, if they caught a losing streak or they're not in the standings where they're supposed to be, that they may not be able to keep their job. And so it does dictate the fact that they want to, you know,

they're trying to win tonight. They don't care about it. They ain't worried about later in the season. They just need to win tonight. And that can be, that can be a dangerous game to play. I think with LeBron, just touch on that real quick.

he had some interest and comment. Maybe it was this past March. I figured when it came exactly, but he said something, and I'm paraphrasing here, he said something along the lines of where playing more minutes has been better for him because it keeps him loose, whereas like if he's sitting on the bench,

you know, for longer extended periods of time, that's when his back tightens up. I believe that's along the lines of what he said. But that was interesting to me. For an older guy like that, for some of these younger dudes, like Anta Dacompo or Davis, it just seems just so short-sighted to me to just play these guys over

37 minutes per game. And I hope they stay healthy, but it just seems like the risk is significant. Question number four. Rudy Gobert is going to be out four to six weeks. After four weeks, he will be evaluated. Last night, they had a game at home against Minnesota in which they lost by double digits. We're talking about a fair amount of time for, I think, what most people presume to be maybe the best defensive player in the league, certainly an anchor for the way they play in Utah. With him being out a month, month and a half possibly, and who knows, right? You get re-evaluated after four weeks. Who knows how much more, how much time they're going to say after that.

do you think that Utah's playoff hopes are dashed by having to lose Gobert for four to six weeks? Yeah, I do. I do think so. And the sad thing is, is they're not bad enough where they can say, you know what? Let's hold them out for longer in tank. They're still not that bad. They're just floating in the middle because they still have some good quality players. You mentioned Mitchell earlier.

Derek Favors has had some solid-ish nights. Joe Ingalls, solid player. Rubio, even though he's gotten off to a not a great start for Utah, he's still a quality player. So it's like they're not quite good enough to make the playoffs if Gobert's out for the full extent of six weeks. But at the same time, they're not quite bad enough where they're a team that could just tank and take advantage of an opportunity to get a star level player. They're just floating in the middle. And that's a little bit disappointing for Utah where the thing is, you know, this is just kind of a counterpoint in some ways. If you look at Gobert, right, there's a segment of jazz fans who are almost looking

forward to seeing them with maybe more spacing on the offensive end of the floor. So that'll be interesting to see that experiment with Gobert out over the next four to six weeks. But at the same time, I just think the loss is too significant on the defensive end. He's integral to what they do in the defensive end of the floor. I mean, we mentioned again earlier how Milwaukee, how they're aggressive on the defensive end, how they, they trap and they hedge on pick and rolls. Utah is dropping down to the paint and daring your offense to just go at Gobert because nobody will. But now, if you're going to keep that system over the duration of his absence, I think they can get picked apart. And they haven't had a guy that's able to step up. Ronnie Hood has not yet to meet

expectations for them. They need somebody to just elevate their game. And I don't think anybody has shown that they can. All right. Last question. Number five is the Clippers have lost six games in a row. And two, they have only won two of their last 10 games. Now, the six losses are not necessarily miserable.

I mean, they lost to the Grizzlies and the heat. Then they lost at the Spurs at Oklahoma City, at New Orleans. And then, of course, it was capped off by Joel M.B. talking crazy, giving them big problems and losing to Philadelphia last night. How big of trouble? What do you think? Do you think this is a blip on the radar? And we're going to look back and say, hey, this was a bad stretch for the Clippers? Or is this signs of something really wrong there?

I will tell you before you answer that the safe money might be. be to say that something's really wrong there simply because starting Friday night, they are off. God dang, they get to marinate in that Philly loss and this six-game losing streak. Wow. They played last night against Philly. They do not play again until Friday. Holy mackerel.

At Cleveland, at Charlotte, at the Knicks, at Atlanta, at Sacramento. So they're about to go on a five-game road trip sitting on a six-game road trip sitting on a six game losing streak. Do you think, do you think that this is signs that something is very, very wrong or is, are we going to look back and say, hey, remember when they lost six in a row? God, they really didn't have it going then. What do you think? No, they're screwed.

They're screwed. I was dead wrong about them. I told people, take the over. You know, their upside is high. You know, they get high upside with Galenari and Blake Griffin and Patrick Beverly. and guess what? Gallinardy's already hurt, already out. Doc Rivers, you know, look, he started installing a ball movement oriented system, but it just hasn't stuck.

It hasn't stuck the way the ball moves without Beverly and without Gallinari in there, with Austin Rivers kind of as your focal point on the offensive end of the floor, they are entering their worst case scenario. That was my argument in favor of the Clippers before the season. Well, if Blake stays healthy, if Galanari stays healthy, if Patrick Beverly stays healthy, if Doc Rivers and manages to install his ball movement system, too many ifs. I blew it on their prediction with them. Already Beverly out, Galanari out, and Doc should be out soon too.

They're done. Just forget it. You know, it's a lost season for the Clippers and it's sad. Just enjoy Blake and enjoy maybe the last season of DeAndre Jordan. I don't want to remind you that in our season preview, I was mortified by your Clippers. That would be terrible. You were. I was mortified.

You were. Absolutely mortified in your clippers fan. Too many gifts. I would never, I would never rub that in. All right, we got to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. And when we come back, I'm going to ask Kevin about his scouting college prospects. And there is a prospect that you did not have in your article that I was very surprised was not in that article. I'm not going to bust you up too bad, but there was a prospect not in your article that I was surprised was not in your article.

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captera.com slash NBA. All right, Kemp, so I loved the article that you wrote, the NBA fans guide to the best prospects in college basketball because it becomes that time of the year when you end up flipping around. There are certainly for NBA fans' interest and especially NBA fans of horrible teams. They want to check out these prospects

and they look at the mock drafts, et cetera, et cetera. Tonight, good opportunity, right, with Michigan State and Duke playing against to each other. So you get to see Marvin Bagley, who his debut was just, I mean, you can't do much better than 25 and 10. I think he had in his debut. You've also got the Bridges kid for Michigan State.

And then you have Kentucky and Kansas, which are always loaded with high level recruits. And you mentioned one of the kids that is going to be involved in that game tonight. In fact, he was on your seniors list, which is Devante Graham, the point guard from Kansas. Kansas, Kentucky tonight. All right. So you put together this prospects list. And when you are putting together the list, it mirrors in most cases, what most people list is the top prospects or the draftable prospects.

Do you think right now, if you were going to say the college player that everyone should really go out of their way to try to see? who what's the answer to that question deandre aiton the guy who led the article um Arizona big man seven footer with a long seven foot five wingspan I think both him and moe bomber from Texas you look at the big man in today's league um those kind of freakish or unicorn big men as people call them we could potentially be having another two of them entering the league um this coming season I think eighton is the guy that has the best chance of becoming that elite level player just what he can do on the offensive and defensive end of the floor. He had just this massive dunk the other night.

But at the same time, like, he is more than just an interior, you know, dunk monster. He is somebody who can potentially shoot threes. He is somebody who can attack the rim. And I think he's also somebody who can kind of be your patrol man inside the paint. So Aiton kind of is the complete package. But what you're going to want to watch for with him is just, Watch his effort. You know, some of the concerns with him apply to Carl Anthony Towns today. Just watch the effort level. And that's what I think a lot of scouts are going to be watching because the upside is significant. But at the same time, you know, as is the case with towns, sometimes the effort or the fundamentals

need to be there in order to reach that upside. Yeah. One of the kids that you mentioned, this is not a college kid, but we do need to keep this in mind, especially when we're talking about, hey, these kids would have a chance of being the number one pick. Luca Donchich. Is that how you say it, Donchich? Donchich. Luca Donchich.

You know what's crazy is about a year ago, maybe it was a year ago, when last year's draft was taking place. An old friend of mine, Sonny Vicaro, the legendary shoe executive, used to come on with me every week. and I would talk to him about prospects, and I would ask him, you know, so many of the people that were either involved in the business side of basketball or were actually still involved in front offices around, he would still keep up with who are all the best players and who are the best prospects,

and they would kind of give them his list and draft boards. He'd write him down, and then he would deliver them to me. And I recall last year, it's a year ago, I had no idea who Luca Donchich was. And he said, there must have been something going on. There must have been some kind of international thing that was going on because we were getting ready for last year's draft. And I asked him about those particular players. And he said, I'm telling you, every NBA guy I talk to, all they want to talk about is the kid next year.

And I was like, what? And he said this, Luca Donchitz, that people think he can be like a superstar, superstar. And it wasn't just one like NBA guy that told him this. This was several. And so this guy has really piqued my interest. Every once in a while I'll see like Mike Schmitz or somebody put like a clipped video on Twitter. And I'm like, my God. Like he looks, he looks ridiculous, Kevin.

He looks great. And he's getting better quick too. I mean, just maybe six months ago. people are like, well, you know, maybe his three-pointers not for real, you know, and that was fair, right? Because he's only 18 years old. But already he is quickly escalating his play on both ends of the floor. He, I mean, the thing is, is like, you know, we're talking about college prospects and that's what the article is about. But yet, Luca don't, she's the guy, you know, really everybody should have eyes on. I mean, monitor his play and his development any way you can because

he's number one for me. I know Draft Express has his. number has him number one as well. I don't know of an outlet that doesn't have him number one. And I think to your friend's point, this year, it's become a cliche to say, oh, well,

this year's draft is even better. But, you know, at the same time, this top five, and I wrote about this on August, this top five does have a chance to be better. I think the guys up top,

Luca Donchich, Marvin Bagley, DeAndre Aten, Moeamba, Michael Porter, all five of those guys would arguably have maybe had a chance of going number one this year over faults over ball over Tatum the top three all five where are you at on porter i mean that was a massive coup for uh conzo martin he was able to bring him along with him once he got the missouri

job i know the kid sat out last night with a leg deal but he was i think by most recruiting analysts opinion, the highest ranked guy. Like most people thought Michael Porter Jr. was the best player in the class. The track record for whoever is considered the best player in the class has usually been rather good. Where are you at on Porter? And why is he not?

If he was amongst his peers considered to be the best of that particular class, why is he not a sure thing to be, if it's not the international kid, Luca Donchich? why is he not a sure thing to be the number one pick i don't think there is a sure thing i think you know aton porter bagley bomba all those guys can make a push for the number one spot i think they absolutely have a chance so when i say don't just number one right now he's just the consensus number one um for really everybody entering the college season but any of those four guys i think could make a push including porter i mean his game he's six foot nine six foot 10 long lean you know, versatile player.

He's somebody who could become an athletic go-to-scorer for your team. He's really, I think, one of the more interesting players in the sense that what he needs to get better at is ball handling. What he needs to get better at is getting to the rim. What he needs to get better at is shooting off the dribble. So those are important traits for a guy who projects as a go-to scorer. So, you know, in the article yesterday, I said, is he going to be more autoporter? or is he going to be more Paul George?

And we're going to start to find that out this season once we actually get a chance to see how his ball handling has developed. Because that's the key thing, his handle. And if that comes a long way for him, he could become one of the league's next great scores of the next era. And I think that alone is an exciting development to watch this year. There's just so many guys this year where there's little things to watch for that could really elevate the top of this draft class to just one of the more exciting levels that we've seen in recent years.

Porter could be great. I absolutely love the kid at Michigan State Miles Bridges. Yeah, he's awesome. People can watch him tonight. He is one of those guys that I watch and I go, all right, we will decide what the ceiling is, but I'm telling you what the floor is. And there is zero percent chance that kid is going to suck. There's no way. He's just, he is, he plays too hard.

He is too skilled. I was absolutely stunned that he went back to Michigan State. And we will see it. Probably will serve him well and he will probably get drafted and he would have. But he would have absolutely gone in the lottery last year. I believe that wholeheartedly. And I get it, right? Like there's very few, Zach Randolph, Deonté Davis.

I think those might be the only one in Duns that Izzo has ever had. usually it is the Draymons and the Denzel Valentines and the Charlie Bells and guys that are veteran players in college basketball is usually what they're stocked with at I guess Harris was two years, right?

Gary Harris was two years. Yeah, there's been some. He could have a one of done this year. Jaron Jackson Jr., freshman Bigman. I think he has an opportunity to go one-on-one. And he's a guy who could kind of push for that top five

if he has a big season for Michigan State. So people can check out. That'll be great tonight because Bagley will be on the same court for Duke as Miles Bridges, who I love. So people can go check them out. Those two are going to be on tonight. And then like we said, Kansas and Kentucky. All right. So there is one player.

So I would alert everybody go check this out. This is the NBA fan's guide to the best prospects in college basketball written by Kevin O'Connor. And it'll give you a little primer as to who to go out of your way to check out. is a player that is not on your in your article that I was surprised I expected to read about him in the article. Do you have any guesses as to who that might be? Troy Brown. It is not Troy Brown. Okay. It is a kid that I became aware of mostly from flipping on the ridiculous Harlem Globetrotter

style McDonald's All-American game. But then it peaked my interest and I ended up as I was watching it. I went and did the whole look up what he's done, look up the mix tapes and whatnot. And then even, and I'd kind of forgotten about it until Friday. The college basketball season gets kicked off. CBS Sports has a game between Memphis and Alabama that I'm going to watch. It's at like 5.30. and he because he's involved in that FBI thing he had to sit out of the game right he had to sit out of the game so he wasn't even available to play in that first college basketball game but during the course of the game obviously the announcers are talking about the fact that they've got this super high high level recruit and he's not going to be able to be playing but you know here's kind of who he's been compared to and I mean they're bringing up names.

like Kyrie Irving and I mean like some of the best players you've ever heard up and they start showing this like highlight package and it jogged my memory again and I mean anybody can go look this kid up Kevin I mean this kid is outrageous he won the dunk contest at the McDonald's and his head like his whole neck is damn near above the rim on some of these in-game dunks on his tape. His handles are really like, he does the Kyrie stuff. He really does. You know, he appeared. I think he's like 6-2 or something like that. He just looks like, I mean, I don't know, my first glance watching him and watching those videos, I'm like, holy shit. Give me that guy. Because he looks, he looks like I foresee like very little circumstances.

that that kid is not unbelievable. He's fast as shit. He jumps out of the gym. His handles are crazy. Like, why is he not considered like the best guy? Maybe I haven't seen all of them enough. I like Colin Sexton. You know, I wrote a, when we did our way too early mock drafts, you know, I think it was in September or early October, whenever it was.

I had them going seventh to the Pacers. I think that's fair. I mean, I like Sexton a lot. I think, you know, you would especially like. like about him, Chris, too, is he, he's got swag, man. Like in the article I just mentioned the mock draft, you can look up video of him. Dude, dances during timeouts. He's gotten into scuffles with another prospect, Jalen Hans.

He's got his, his catchphrase. That's what I do, man, straight up. I mean, he's, he's got, he's got swagger, man. No, you mentioned that Jalen Ham. So when I was watching the videos, there's like six of him like getting in fights with that kid. Like, evidently, they have had this rivalry for the ages. It'll be like, I mean, you're talking like two million views on some of these.

It's like, uh, Colin Sexton and Jalen Ham come, you know, almost come to blows and Jalen Ham and, uh, and, uh, Colin Sexton go at it again. Like evidently, these kids were on the circuit against each other and damn near fought each other like every time, I guess. Now, he's, he's an exciting prospects. You know, it'll be interesting to see how he develops. Well, you know, it's kind of like it's a little Deeran Foxish, honestly, because he looks so fast, too. And he is such, and you know how much I loved Fox, who also had swag and kind of had the ferociousness.

Fox has discipline though, and Sexton really doesn't. That's the big difference between those guys, I think. I bet he learns it playing for Avery Johnson. Hope so. You think that's going to fly? No. So we can go check out Kevin's NBA fans guide to. college basketball, and there's a couple really great games that are going on tonight. Kevin,

it's always a pleasure. We'll talk to you next week. Thanks, brother. Have a good one, Chris. It's going to do it for another NBA show. If you dig with your hand. Go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week. NBA show brought to you by Wish, want to say big, or 300 million smart and thrifty shoppers have discovered Wish, the mobile mall app that makes it easy to shop fashion, shoes, electronics, and more directly from the makers. That way, you pay 60,000, to 90% less than what you pay in a store. And now for our listeners,

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