The Ringer NBA Show - LeBron Thought About the Knicks, but It Was All a (Pipe) Dream | The Mismatch (Ep. 352)

Episode Date: December 11, 2018

LeBron James comments on having considered the New York Knicks as a free-agent destination (1:17), the Sacramento Kings and Dallas Mavericks continue to overperform behind their young stars (14:50), the Boston Celtics return to excellence after a slow start (34:10), and the Los Angeles Lakers look to add Trevor Ariza to an already wing-heavy roster (43:10). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Message and data rates may apply. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. This is The MISMatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, A.k.a. Kevin O'C. A.K.A. Kevin O'C.? And what is this new nickname I heard Shea Serrano give you yesterday?

You know, you know what, Chris. Shea Serrano can... Oh, all right. Well, then we're just going to leave it at that, Kevin. Kevin! Hey, what's going on today, Chris? How are you doing? All right, so we're going to get through a lot of the games that took place last night

as to jump off for a lot of the topics that have been going on in the NBA. The first of which is, I guess, the lasting image of last night was Dwayne Wade's last game in Los Angeles and this whole meeting with him at LeBron and then everybody is basically filming a documentary of this last night that is going on between the two and the two. exchanging of jerseys. And then there's this clip that is caught of LeBron James. You know, Dwayne Wade thanks him for letting it end here in Staples Center. And then LeBron says it was either here or the garden, which immediately brought the ire of Nick's fans everywhere. Yeah, you know, Chris, I was reflecting last night. You know, LeBron and Wade have so many

great moments that they've played together against each other. And that was the best one, though, right? With the Braun telling Wade, it can only be here of the guard, and then Knicks fans around the world simultaneously having a mental breakdown afterwards. The next didn't even play last night, and they got an L. That was really weird how that happens, and it just captures today's NBA atmosphere. It's almost a shame that that happened because it overshadowed the ending of a great chapter, but it was quite hilarious how it happened. The biggest takeaway, for me, from him saying that, is who knows what would have

in terms of him if he would have ever chosen there. But the advantage is real being able to play in Madison Square Garden, being in New York City, and the gross level of mismanagement that has taken place in New York has put them in a position where normally they would. I do believe that they would be able to get huge stars to want to play there. Obviously, once upon a time, Carmelo Anthony wanted to, but since that, there has been no reason for you to go and sign there, given what has appeared to be the future for so long. And that's what hurts, right? Because if they had some really good management and they

got it all together, and we'll see what Scott Perry and David Fisdale and that whole crew do now, that they would have the opportunity to be able to sell people on the future. But it has been a long time since they've been able to do that. And so, therefore, none of the big free agents have signed there in some time. Yeah, you know, I think with LeBron and Wayne, that easily could have been a reference to 2010 as well, when LeBron actually was considering the Knicks, when Wade was also a free agent, they ended up going to Miami. But New York was in consideration. This morning, I read it old Brian Windhorst's article when he was writing for Cleveland.com back then, and, you know, he mentioned how Nick's brass at the time had a second meeting with LeBron's old agent Leon

Rose. LeBron wasn't at the meeting. They wanted a follow-up meeting with LeBron and never got it. And obviously LeBron didn't consider him during this last go-around in free agency because they weren't ready for it. But maybe if they were, maybe if they were a team that made sense, the way LeBron felt about how they handled the mellow situation, maybe if all that never happened, they would have been in consideration, right? Instead, the only other big market for LeBron that made sense was to L.A. Lakers. But you know what? Like you said, Chris, the Knicks still are building something right now. And despite LeBron saying that last night, you know what, if you're a next to mean, who cares? It's in the past.

Moving forward, this Knicks team does have a lot of young talent. Frank Nilekeena, Greta doesn't play sometimes. Chris Staps, Porzing as he gets back healthy. Kevin Knox, despite being one of the youngest players in the draft, has had some impressive moments and some downs as well, as you would expect for someone his age. But the Knicks have some young talent. I think they're building something,

and they're going to have cap space in the future, too. The Knicks should be good. That is an unbelievable basketball town with the greatest venue. I mean, it's a shame what has taken place. I don't want to rub it into Knicks fans, but obviously, you know, when you hear something like that, when the best player in the world says it was either here or there, you know, and it's not there, right? And you know the reasons that it wasn't there, that you know that that place is held in such high esteem, even by the best of players. That's all I'm saying. You know how LeBron says like the NBA is better when the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics are good, right?

I think it is. I mean, not to sound like we're biased towards big markets or anything like that. But I haven't been to a lot of NBA arenas, maybe like 8 to 10. I haven't been that many at all. But of the ones I've been to, those three clearly have the best home crowds. Like, I haven't been to Oklahoma City yet for what it's worth. But of the ones I've been to, those three have the best home atmospheres, like by far, even during just basic regular season games, it has a buzz there.

Well, what about Golden State? Yeah, Oakland as well, especially, you know, during the playoffs. Yeah, Oakland as well. You don't put Boston on the same level as? as New York and L.A. In terms, like, the loudest game I've been to is that game, Isaiah Thomas scored 40 plus points during the playoffs against the Wizards. That was the loudest game I've ever been to.

I would put it on the same level, yeah. And Oracle Arena can get really crazy, too. Maybe at the height of when that big three first started rising, I never went to a game then, but maybe that was when it's at its peak. Gotcha. There have been a bunch of things that have gone on over the course of the last week that we need to talk about, not the least, of which is the insane situation that has gone on with the Chicago Bulls.

Since the ouster of Fred Hoyberg, they installed Jim Boylan to take over, and it has been so far a bonafide catastrophe where the players have stood up to him. Well, I mean, first you get these stories about him having a two-and-a-half-hour practice after they get bombed out, and that he was having them run suicides, like their little kids or something. and then they stand up to him and they say that they're not practicing. And then you have the stories leak out that someone in the locker room, when he started bringing up the past and he started talking about Greg Popovich and the Spurs, one of the players reportedly said something to the effect of,

this ain't the Spurs and you're not Greg Popovich. I mean, this is just a debacle. I mean, the Bulls, it's one thing to, fire Fred Hoyberg, which we kind of raised an eyebrow at anyway. Like, what are you trying to do here? But to replace him with obviously a choice that the players have immediately turned on makes this situation all the worse. What do you make of what is taking place? You got a 56 point loss to the Celtics. You got everybody in the locker room, evidently joking around and not particularly caring about losing, and then you have, obviously, this whole blow up with Jim Boylan.

I mean, what was Boylan thinking was going to happen? If you have your team do a two and a half hour practice day after playing, it's just, that's not going to go over well. In the middle of the season, it's just not going to work. You know, you might have learned from Greg Popovich, but I don't think Greg Popovich would necessarily do that. I think you need to read the room. Post-coaching change, yeah, you want to stop your foot down and establish things are going to be different now than it was with Fred Hoyberg, but doing a two and a half hour practice, I don't think it's going to work. I don't think doing those John Caliperi platoon-style substitutions with five guys coming out, five guys going in, it's going to work either. I just don't see why you think

those things are a good idea. And naturally, your players who are smart people who understand basketball are also thinking, what is this guy doing right now? Granted, they probably didn't take the right approach saying, we're not going to practice, we're not going to show even show up. instead of just having an open harvestation, which was best about it, maybe they can grow from this. Maybe Boyland and the players meet somewhere in the middle

and that maybe now things start going well after that one bump last week. But I thought from the start with Boylan, which is a bad idea. It was a bad idea doing what he did last week. Well, they're talking about how, you know, one of the reports from last night from Malika Andrews of ESPN said,

unlike the record 56 point loss to the Celtics on Saturday night, though, the mood in the locker room after Monday's game was light. Wendell Carter, Cameron Payne joked with each other loudly, and Zach Levine stayed to chat with reporters Monday after giving clipped comments before bolting Saturday. And so great to see that they're joking after another loss. I am of the opinion that obviously Jim Boylan has whatever response you wanted to elicit. You've read that team wrong. The other thing I would say is when you are a bad team, one of the things that can be very important in the middle.

of having that bad team, if you don't want players to get used to losing, if you don't want them to get the wrong examples, you don't want the young guys being able to take over and it become a joking situation when you're six and 22 and you just had a double-digit lead and you got beat again, you got to have some veterans on that team, right? I do think there is a benefit to that, that there is somebody in that locker room that has won something. There is somebody that can teach these guys how to be professionals and that losing is not funny. And they don't have any. Well, like Robin Lopez.

Come on. Can we please get serious? I mean. I knew you were going to react like that. I threw you at Allie Oop. I mean, can we get serious here? I mean, this is why I think obviously it's gone very wrong. But there is a wisdom in bringing on a Trevor Reza and a Tyson Chandler.

and prior to Trevor Rees is not even trying on the Suns. He's not setting an example for that team. I understand. I understand in theory and obviously he looks at it and says, okay,

this organization is a joke and so he just falls in line. And so that's unfortunate. But, you know, the Kings had Vince Carter and you see Deeran Fox talk glowingly about him and guys that like come to work every day

and they set an example about how to be a professional. and they are bothered by losing and they're not there for it. They don't have anybody. I mean, I've covered teams like this. Once upon a time, this happened with, there was a coach named Mark Ivaroni who coached. And the locker room basically was filled with guys that were very young in their careers.

And they were the ones kind of with the power. And there were three kids from the Big East. And it was Kyle Lowry, it was Rudy Gay, and it was Hakeem Warwick. And they were kind of like the crew. but they were first and second year guys. And once Ivaroni started Casey Jacobson at the time over Hakeem Warwick, he lost that team completely because he lost those three. And what I'm saying is there's got to be somebody that is not a first, second, third year guy that's actually done something in the NBA that you can look to. That's the great Jim Boylan miscalculation.

he's got to look around and say, okay, who's the guy that can, right? Maybe it's Levine, maybe it's whoever, right? Robin Lopez, I'm serious. I'm just saying somebody that he goes to and says, you've got to be on my side here. You know what I mean? But I mean, when he obviously doesn't have Levine, and you know who I would have gone to?

I'd have gone to Bobby Portis, and I'd have said, whoop everybody's ass. I know he's willing to. For one of the fourth, Robin Lopez was a starting center on two really, really good Blazers teams. He was a young player on the Phoenix Suns. He's played on some good teams. I'm just saying, I'm just throwing that out there. He's not exactly the guy that's going to stand up in the locker room and yell at everybody. I know. I know he's not. This isn't the way that this is supposed to go here. But he was reportedly one of the two guys and Lowry Markan. That was like,

hey, maybe it's not a good idea to not show up a practice. Right. So at least through text message, him and Lowry Marketing and were vocal. And then the rest of them rolled their eyes at him. Or maybe they sent a rolling eyes emoji in response. Yeah, right. You wonder if this is going to last. You know what I mean? If you're the Bulls, do you look at this and say, look, we're 6 and 22? And you know you've got to establish something going into next season.

And having our players clearly, not necessarily on board with the head coach, is not going to do us any good when there are 50 games left to play in this season. So maybe this isn't the thing to be happening right now. Then you go find somebody, right, to install. I think that's what I'd have to do, wouldn't you? Sure. I think Bulls have a long list of problems that need to be resolved. Ultimately, with them, I think a lot of it starts with just time, right?

Like this young roster has some talent on it. I mean, there's some talented players on this team, undeniably. Guys like Wendell Carter, Lowry Marknan, even Chris Dunn, he can become a defensive player who offers complimentary offense and playmaking. Bobby Portis, who is a restricted free agent this coming summer. Even somebody like him has talent. He's made progress over the years. Zach Levine has showed he can get buckets.

Not a lot else yet, but he should at least show him that he can score. There's talent on this team. And over time, they'll add another top prospect this year. And then suddenly, once you have better players, suddenly things start looking better. Yeah. Leadership matters, though. And I know Bulls fans would say it starts with Gar-Pax and their decision-making over the years. That's for sure.

Let's talk about the team on the flip side, which has been one of the surprise teams in the NBA. They stand at 14 and 12 now after their win last night, which is the Sacramento Kings. And I know that you have been mega impressed with your old buddy Deerrin Fox, who we talked a lot about last year. But of guys that have taken the major second year leap, he's right at the top of the list. Yeah, I'm actually wearing a Dragon Balls shirt right now in honor of Deeran Fox and Luca Donchich, War won to the game yesterday. But at Fox yesterday in that game against the Bulls, I posted a clip on my Twitter, a three-pointer he shot off a screen.

And, you know, he ran down a screen from the right side of the court towards the left corner and, you know, lined his feet and threw up the three. It was really a nice shot. And those are the types of shots that De Aaron Fox is hitting that has me feeling really good that his improved jumpers, for real, Chris. I think you look at the numbers, it's easy to say,

you know, small sample size. You know, he's not going to continue shooting 41% from three. And that might be true. That number might fall to 37 or 38 or maybe even 36. But you know what? It's better than what it was last year at 31. It's because he's not just hitting standstill threes or he's spotting up from above the arc. He's hitting threes off screens.

He's hitting threes off the dribble that are heavily contested, tough shots that non-shooters don't make. Darren Fox has always been a pretty solid mid-range jumper. He's always been a, you know, average free throw shooter. he has good touch around the rim, maybe something clicked within his jumper for him after working hard this summer to improve his shot. That's translating now onto the court,

and that's encouraging for the Kings because he's made improvements across the board, Chris, including as a pass or two. When you look at him and you see All Star is certainly in that kid's future, he may get a little consideration even this year. It's possible. Not in the West, I don't think.

You never know. I mean, because, well, listen, you're knocking Chris, Paul out of there. You know what I mean? If you're taking Chris Paul out of the mix, it's a little more open than it has been in the past.

Westbrook's a sure thing. Curry is a sure thing, right? Once you get beyond those two in terms of perimeter guys, who else is a total sure thing? Hardin. Right? Hardin for sure. Yeah. Westbrook Curry, Hardin.

Those are sure things. Probably Damien Lillard. Four. But you also have to consider positions. We're talking a guy like the Rosen's going to get more votes. DeRose is not going to get in on votes. He's going to have to be named. Yeah, I think coaches would also have to be in the starters. I don't think Darren Fox is a chance, even when we go through it. However, he is impressive. He's putting up impressive numbers for a young player.

Only 21 years old, averaging 18.1 points and 7.5 assists. Not a lot of guys have met that threshold before turning 22. According to basketball reference, LeBron, Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Stefan Barbary, Alan Iverson, Alan Ivers. That's it. It's impressive for a 21-year-old point guard to be putting up numbers like this already. All right. Let me ask you about a rookie. If you don't think Dearon Fox would have any chance, you think Luca does? I would be surprised. I think he should receive consideration, but I don't think you will. Oh, I think he'll absolutely get consideration. You're talking about... Sorry, let me rephrase that. He'll probably be on like the long list of players considered. And maybe Deeran Fox is also on that too.

But I don't see him being the guy who actually makes the team. You'll be debating those guys with like Clay Thompson and you'll be debating those guys because when you look down that Denver doesn't have a guard that's going to make it. The Clippers don't have a guard that's going to make it. The Lakers don't have a guard that's going to make it. But then you're down to the Conley and Luca and guys that have, they feel like the teams have overachieved thus far this season. Mike Conley, Deerran Fox, Luca Donchich. These guys are major cogs on teams that have outperformed. Rookies almost never make the team though. Last working to make an all-start team was Blake Griffin. The one before that was Yao Ming.

LeBron didn't even make it as a rookie. Well, and by the way, I know this was a long time ago, so you may not remember this, but the Yao Ming thing was a joke. That was a big controversy at the time. We would have been talking about that on the Rigger NBA show because he started over Shaq because of votes. Because of votes, they made it available for, they printed all-star ballots in Chinese, and everybody could vote, right, all over the world.

And so Yao Ming won on votes. didn't even win rookie of the year that year. Amari Stottemar won rookie of the year. I mean, so that one was goofy. But you're right. If you're talking about the last 25 years, the only perimeter guy that has made the All-Star team as a rookie is Grand Hill in 1995. That's it. The other ones are Blake, Yao, Duncan, and Shaq. So Grand Hill is the last perimeter player that has made the All-Star team as a rookie. And that was 1995. So we're talking 23 years ago. Good Lord. 23 years since a perimeter rookie has made it. I think Donchich does have a chance. I do. It's possible. There's a chance.

And they have stayed hotter than hell, have the Mavericks. Nice duelieper reference. I know it wasn't a reference, but it's a great song. Last night, they get another win. They have won 10 in a row at home. They are 12 and 2 on their home floor, 2 and 9, away from home. but that is good enough for a 14 and 11 record as of this morning. They're a playoff team.

They are the eighth seed. And so since they've gotten their guys back and they've been healthy, they've gone on a hell of a run here. Obviously, Luca's been fantastic. They're seven and three in their last 10. And as I said, they've been downright dominant at home. How big of a believer are you in the MAVs long term? And I mean that right now they're a playoff team. I'd imagine that like most of these teams, they'll be hovering towards that for the rest of the season.

But in terms of their recent success, how big of a believer are you in the team they are versus what they've done recently? I mean, I'm thinking back to game one of the preseason when the Mavericks defeated Justin Hamilton and the Beijing Ducks. And I wrote an article about that. The Beijing Dug. Yeah. I remember writing an article about that performance. and I think Just Vary edited it. And the headline was

the Mavericks could be better than you think, sooner than you think. And it's like, yeah, I totally. I totally think the Mavericks are going to be better than we think sooner than we think. But I didn't think it would be this soon. Like, this is really soon, man. This is very surprising.

I thought Luca would have more of a learning curve with scoring the ball. I didn't think his stepback three-point jumper would have translated this quickly. Granted, in last night's game, he was only two for 11, no for five from three. three, that's just one game over the full season.

He's still shooting 37% from three. Luca overall has been as high as I was on him and as high as a lot of people were on him, better than expected. And I still think there's more to his game. And what we saw last night was that he's, even when he doesn't score, he can still make a positive impact with 11 rebounds, nine assists. Because really, man, even though he's averaging only 4.3 assists per game, this might sound dumb to say. but I still think he's actually one of the better pastures in the league. If you factor in things like vision and accuracy passing the ball off the dribble,

just being able to, it's like a quarterback when they step back into the pocket. You can make your first read, great, but you need to be able to make that second, third, and sometimes your fourth read when you're scrambling. Luca Donchich can already do all that at 19 years old. Well, and he has already transcended the box score in the sense that last night, two highlights that were being passed around everywhere were his nutmeg pass underneath the basket between the guy's leg and

his celebration after the pick and roll he ran with D'Andre Jordan which was just a preposterous celebration but he makes everybody smile Are you hating on that? Are you hating on that celebration? Oh, come on. Can we get serious? What are you talking about? It looked like my daughter when I bring her home something from Walgreens. I mean, it is a terrible celebration, but it's hilarious.

Okay, maybe he was actually celebrating the past, because even that pass was perfect. It was perfect. When he passed the ball, where did he throw it? He threw it high for DJ where he could catch the ball and as he's catching the ball jump into his dunk. It wasn't low. If it were low, maybe it's stripped or deflected,

but it's exactly where it needs to be. And that's what Luca Dantritch does so often with his passes. I think he was being intentionally goofed. I know. I know. He was. And I will tell you this, he appears to be, by all appearances, he is so much more, I didn't catch this when he was in the Euro League. And obviously the NBA is more given to charisma.

And certainly there's cameras around the kid all the time and there's focus on him. But he appears to be just intensely likable. He really does. Like who could not like him? And listen, Isaac, you guys, by the way, shout out to Isaac. and Jason Gallagher for their amazing performance of Paula Luka over the weekend. I saw you guys got to meet him

and got the pictures with him, whatever. I mean, by all appearances, he could not be nicer. And he appeared to be to you guys also, right? Yeah, I mean, he was really delightful. We gave him our t-shirt, and he took it and was like, oh, I'm going to wear this.

And it seemed like a really well-adjusted, normal, fun-loving 19-year-old kid. Yeah, and he's always smiling. And so obviously, listen, The luca mania has taken not only Dallas, but everybody in the NBA by storm. You can't watch those highlights last night and not smile, right? He's in that perfect spot right now where nobody's hating on him. When you think about in a post-Lebron world, the guys who are going to be the faces of the NBA,

obviously there's Yonis and Akumpo, there's Ben Simmons, Kevin Durant, if he continues playing into his mid to late 30s, which we'll see. He said he wants to retire at 35. Joe L. Ambide, of course. Luca Donchich is going to enter that conversation. There's no way around it. Luca Legends. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it.

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had a 40 plus point quarter. That could not have happened many times to the jazz, certainly in the second half of last year, maybe any last year, but they exploded on the jazz. The jazz defense obviously lets them down once again, and they are third from the bottom in the west. I keep waiting for the jazz to flip it around,

and now they've lost two in a row. They are 13 and 15 on the year. Now we've got to remember, listen, we're always a week away from changing our opinion drastically on these teams. If you end up anybody that goes on a four-game winning streak is going to end up much higher in the standings. And as of right now, we can talk about the jazz and the dire situation that they're in, but they're, what, two and a half games out of the eight seed right now. But they still just don't seem right.

And when I start to think, hey, maybe they're going to get this thing going like we kind of thought at the beginning of the season, then something like that happens last night where they get smacked and give up a 42 point quarter to Oklahoma City, who by the way has not been doing it like that offensively. Their success has been because of their amazing defense. But anyways, what do you make of what has happened lately with the Jazz? And it is so crazy to look. And it's not crazy to see the Sun's at 4 and 23, but the two teams right ahead of them in the standings being the Rockets and the Jazz when we're almost,

30 games into the season is just insane to me. Yeah, for what it's worth, I didn't see this game yet last night between OKC and Utah, so I can't exactly speak to that. But it's like we've talked about in the past with both these teams. In regards to Oklahoma City, up and down their roster, they have a lot of plus defensive players. Guys who are stepping up their games like Dennis Schroeder has been much better here in Oklahoma City than he was in Atlanta. When he entered the league, he was an appealing defensive prospect.

He's gone back to that. And then with Utah, it's puzzling. It really is puzzling, Chris, because they're still playing the same scheme that they did last season. They're still forcing teams into the same types of shots. But they're not producing. Even on the offensive end, guys haven't been quite the same. Joe Ingalls hasn't had the same magic that he had last season. Donovan Mitchell has not elevated his play.

He's only shooting 30% from 3 compared to 34% last year. He's made subtle improvements as a passer, but it hasn't exactly shown up statistically. And I think when you look at Utah, you were probably hoping that Mitchell would have elevated his game this year. It just hasn't happened with him. Which are you more convinced gets it together? The Jazz of the Rockins. I'm going to say Houston, and here's why. You know, I wrote that article yesterday about all their problems on defense and those are going to be hard to solve.

But they still have James Hardin. They still have Chris Paul, two guys who, granted Chris Paul hasn't been quite the same this year. But James Harden, besides an uptick and turn. has been every bit as impressive as he was last season, scoring the ball. And Chris Paul has had some really fantastic moments. Now it's about stringing those together like he has in the past. And then Clint Capella, he has made remarkable progress every single season on the offensive end of the floor, becoming a more dynamic pass or a better finisher.

His conditioning is improved. Capella can defend. I think right now it's about figuring out the right pieces around those three guys and PJ Tucker. So around those four guys really where you know what you're going to get and maximizing that, I'd lean towards the team with the two superstars rather than the one that doesn't have a

scoring superstar yet. Rudy Gobert is a great defensive player and Mitchell has shown flashes, but they don't have that guy you can lean on like a heartener, Paul. So I'd pick Houston. Are you on the same page as me, or do you think Utah's defense is reason for them to find some stability over the course of the year? I think I'm probably more

convinced that Utah could flip it around. And the reason is because of the personnel. The personnel is the same. I don't know why this has happened so far, but I do know that they have got the ability to be much better than what they have been. Whereas I was very skeptical about the personnel thing with the rockets.

And that's without knowing that Chris Paul was just not going to be the same Chris Paul. And he's just not. I mean, you watch him. I know you've mentioned this. But, I mean, even when you look at the same, the numbers. He's just not the same guy. And he was routinely beating guys off the dribble and obviously was a magician running that pick and roll last year. And you know, you see the numbers that Capella's

putting up. You see the numbers that James Hardin's putting up. I mean, Paul and Gordon are the ones that are down a little bit. And I thought about this last night. Gordon's horrible right now. Yeah, I know. I thought about this last night. Right or wrong, it is a tiny bit. of good news for Carmelo Anthony that they have not been better. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, it was kind of like, oh, they added Carmelo and look what happened. And he was in some ways held up as a little bit of a scapegoat. But maybe they used that to cover up the fact that it's really more about Paul and Gordon

and what they haven't brought to the table thus far. Because if you look at it right now, I mean, if they get things right after, they dump Carmelo, maybe things are different, you know? Certainly, that would be a killer for a Carmelo Anthony, don't you think? Whereas now, like, look, they sucked with Carmelho and they've still sucked without him. Yeah, to your point, Chris, before Carmelo Anthony left the Rockets, they had a 100.9 defensive rating, which ranked 21st in the league. And since then, it's 113.8, which shrank's 27th.

So small sample sizes, right? you know, there's a lot that can go into that. But point being that their defense still hasn't improved, despite losing a guy like Mello, who teams were just attacking relentlessly. Look at Houston, one of the things that's been happening in the season, they switch screens so freely. Capella has already defended 114 isolation possessions,

despite defending it 184 all of last season. He's on pace to break that by a significant margin. Carmelo was near the top of the league. James Hardin's at the top of the league. They have guys that are just attacking relentlessly in isolation situations. Carmelo was one of them. And removing that piece hasn't made their defense necessarily better. It stayed about the same statistically.

I don't think anybody in the NBA was looking at the Carmelo situation with Houston like, oh, you know, it's all his fault. I think there was a number of issues with Houston, and that's proven to be true. But I don't think that necessarily helps Carmelo either. He's still a guy that teams are going to attack. He's still a guy that hasn't proven that he can. take on that complementary role in the offensive end of the floor. He should be a guy, in my opinion,

and I wish we got this version of him. That becomes a great spot-up three-point shooter, but it's just not there. It wasn't last year in Oklahoma City. It's not there this year in Houston. And even with the Knicks, it was up and down. He was inconsistent as a spot-up shooter. Looking at the numbers on NBA.com.

I wish he could be that guy. I really do, and maybe it has taken failing twice, and maybe one more chance he'll be able to, figure it out, but I'm skeptical, man. I don't think that's changed with Carmelo Anthony with how Houston's performed since he left. Next game, have you totally bought in? The Celtics played the Pelicans last

night and the Celtics won. Again, that is now six in a row, and the only team in the entire NBA with a better point differential now than the Boston Celtics is the Milwaukee Bucks, who have been startling plus 9.8

on the season thus far. Have the Celtics complete figured it out and now though it may have taken a little bit longer, maybe it took 20 games for it to get figured out that now they've got this six game win streak, second best point differential in the league

that we are going to get the Boston that everybody predicted at the beginning of the year? They're absolutely better. That's for sure. I mean, I think over this winning streak they won in New Orleans, they beat Cleveland, Minnesota, New York, Chicago and then they just beat New Orleans at home last night. So they've faced

some weak opponents. I think that's part of it. But there's no doubt that the team's been better overall. I think they're moving the ball better on offense. They're continuing to sustain what was their top-rank defense, even while they were struggling earlier on. The team's been better. Overall, I think the big move for Brad Stevens was putting the Marcus is in the starting lineup,

Marcus Morris and Marcus Smart. Those guys have infused energy in that team. And I think it's made the rotations make a little bit more sense. You're staggering, Carrie Irving and Gordon Hayward more. And with last night's game, they were able to get it done without any of those guys. Horford didn't play, Gordon Hayward didn't play, Carrie Irving didn't play. They showcased

essentially a lot of their assets, guys like Robert Williams and Jalen Brown, and granted, they don't want to trade Jason Tatum, Jason Tatum against the Pelicans, and Anthony Davis, the guy that they would hope to make a run at next summer, should he be available, which, you know, if the Pelicans continue sliding, that seems inevitable. Well, and that is the one team that could actually put

together a trade where the Pelicans could get some great return. But it's been said, you can't have the two supermaxes. So you've got a Kyrie decision. Well, no, you don't. Kyrie's going to opt out this summer. So when Kyrie opts out, then you're eligible to trade for Anthony Davis. Gotcha.

So it's a weird little rule that they put in. But with designated players who sign their rookie max extensions, you're only allowed to trade for one of those players. So they already traded for Kyrie Irving. Therefore, they can't currently trade for Anthony Davis until Kyrie. ops out of his contract this summer, which Anthony Davis is not being traded during the regular season. It's just not happening.

So that's fine for Boston if it comes to that. Yeah, and obviously a very good win for Boston last night given who was playing for them. No doubt. With New Orleans, granted, there was a second night of a back-to-back. They seemed a little bit fatigued. But in that game last night, I think, despite the fact Boston didn't have its stars,

it's kind of like we just talked about with Houston, how Carmelo is getting at what's getting attacked. and Hardin gets attacked on the perimeter. Boston was attacking the weaker defenders on New Orleans. There's no reason to go in Anthony Davis. There's no reason to go with Drew Holiday. You're attacking Miritzch relentlessly off the dribble in the seven minutes that he was in the game. You're attacking their weaker defenders, and they have a heck of a lot of them.

They have two great defenders. And then, again, a bunch of guys who are average, below average, and maybe even bad. So despite the fact the Celtics didn't have any of their three top stars playing, they were still able to generate easy, open baskets. And who were all the Celtics fans going crazy about last night? The time lowered himself. Robert Williams. Oh, my goodness.

Yeah, he, um, his first game playing heavy minutes in quite a long time. And I thought he just one game, but looked better defensively than it. He did at Texas A&M. Played with effort. Looked like his fundamentals improved. Better reading the floor. Had better timing. Shout out Derek Bonder for his joke last night on Twitter.

Robert Williams looked good. So when you talk about Boston's assets, it's all. also a guy like Robert Williams as well that's intriguing for other teams if he continues making progress this season. Another game that went on last night was the Grizzlies and the Nuggets, which I watched. And the Nuggets, listen, that was a great win for them last night. Yokic was by far the best player on the floor, the entire game. And this guard, Monte Morris, he was just, he was out of his mind great. Last night, they are, that was a very good win for them last night, especially coming off of two losses,

including one against the Atlanta Hawks. But watching them last night, I did think to myself, boy, they are going to have a really rough go of it. I feel terrible for them because the injury book has hit them hard. And they've got Yokic and they've got Murray. But with no Gary Harris and no Will Barton and no Paul Millsap, I mean, you're down to counting on every night. Murray, Yokic, Hancho, Hernon Gomez, Liles, Monte Morris, and then maybe

you can get something out of Beasley, Plumley. But they are, I mean, I think it is going to be hard for an extended amount of time, especially given how awesome they have been this year to rack up a bunch of wins. Because you have to have, I mean, even when I got to halftime of that game, I'm like, either Yokic is going to continue to be a superstar in this game or they're going to lose this game. And so he's going to really have to just even crank it up, another notch and carry them each and every night for them to be able to string wins together over the course of the next several weeks without two possibly three of their starters.

For sure. And I think when you look at Denver, you mentioned all the guys I had out last night. Someone like Monta Morris, the performance he's put on this season, 108 assists and only 19 turnovers. He leads the NBA and assist turnover ratio at 5.7. He is just such an efficient passer. He just makes such smart decisions with the ball in his hands. He's not necessarily flashy. He's not going to show up on highlight reels. But like we talked about a little bit

ago with Luca, he makes accurate, smart reads in the floor. He can run your offense. And for someone like him only 23 years old, only in his second year, he looks like he has the experience of somebody who's been in the league for 10 years, right? And I think he's a guy

where with his tools, he will be in the league for that long. Because guess what? As you saw last night, Chris, sometimes he can get buckets for you as well. Sometimes that he's going to pop and have a 20-point game with four or five from three, eight of 12 from the floor. And with a guy like that who does all the little things consistently,

someone who can be relied on, sometimes you get that cherry on top with some scoring too. You know, it's super wild. During the course of that game, there was this deal where they showed Michael Porter Jr. and I was like, damn, I totally forgot about him. You know what I mean? This has been

such an amazing rookie class that we've forget at one point in time, he was like consensus number one. Yeah, out of high school. If not consensus, a lot of people had him rank number one. Yes. And now there's just been such a great rookie class. And at least once upon a time over the course of the last couple of years, the guy that many people thought could be the best guy, he hasn't even played yet. He's their X factor. I mean, he's the guy who could accelerate this team to another level where adding a six-factor. foot 10 scoring forward to the mix.

He could make them pretty special if he pops. And you also think about the move they made this week, adding Swaggy P, Nick Young as well. Another X factor. Nick Young will be co-hosting on the show Catfish on Wednesday night with Neve. I guess he didn't get the part as a new co-host for placing Max, which is kind of disappointing. But I'm glad to have Nick Young, Swaggy P, back at the NBA in the Mile High City with the Denver Nuggets. He's there, all right. And they're going to need him.

Seriously, they're going to need him over the course of the next couple of weeks. For sure. By the way, Chris, you know how much I would love to discuss that episode of Catfish this Wednesday? It's the first NBA Catfish crossover. I've been watching Catfish for a long time now. I think it's a really, really great show. It's a great show. It's entertaining.

I think you're thinking about the psychological aspects of it. It's fantastic. I'll go out of my way and I'll at least record this and try to get around to look it. I devr all the time and it's like it turns into MTV. MTV? Yeah. Catfish. I think it's 10 p.m. Eastern. I think 10 p.m. across the board, something like that.

But it's the first NBA catfish crossover and I'm stoked about it. I bet you are. I'm so excited. And it's Nick Young, yo. Nick Young's hilarious. It's going to be great. I am going to, I'm going to record this and make sure I watch it. Please.

I love to discuss it on Friday's corner. three for what that's forth. Can I do that, Isaac? Can we talk about catfish? If only for like five minutes and then I'll tell Bobby to cut it. All right, a couple other things I didn't want to get to before we get out here today, Kev.

The report came out about the Los Angeles Lakers possibly trading for Trevor Areza. Now, my initial reaction was, oh, give me a break. All right. So Phoenix signed him. And this is why. I saw them in person over the weekend,

the Lakers. And one of the things that stood out to me, I'm like, dude, they would be so different if they didn't have Tyson Chandler. James Jones, who's now running the Phoenix Suns, gifted his old buddy LeBron, Tyson Chandler, and now he's going to give him a Riza, too? Like, what does what does LeBron have on James Jones that he's just going to, like, help him and load up his team? Well, LeBron has on many occasions called him the greatest teammate he's ever had. He still is. I mean, hey, Chandler makes a massive difference for them, Kev. I'll tell you.

I'll tell you what, though, okay? In regards to Trevor Areza going to the Lakers, I've had a handful of NBA executives tell me that they've heard that that's going to happen. Like, it's done. It's just a matter of everything else, like figuring out what the rest of that deal is. Eriza also has not been good this year. Granted, it's in Phoenix. He's just not been good.

To me, the way he's performed this season, he looks more like a buyout candidate than, guy you trade for. He just has not been good. And it's almost hard to tell. It's like, hmm, is this guy like just tanking where he just doesn't want to be here at all? So he's just not trying. He's not hustling back on defense. Like he stinks right now. He's really not a good player. Or is he somebody where he's just actually not good where he just hit a wall? Because he's 33 years old, mind you, right? Let's keep that in mind. It's also possible. He also came into the NBA. He also came into the NBA young.

Yeah, right? So he's had a lot of seasons. And he just played until late May as well. Also not an injury plagued player. So, I mean, those minutes are real. He has played a gargantuan amount of minutes. It's just looking at 28,65 career regular season minutes. I mean, that's enormous.

3,293 career playoff minutes. Yeah. I mean, and I think last couple years in Houston, he's probably played more minutes than he ever has in his entire career. I got to be honest, I joke about resenting James Jones. The Tyson Chandler one is 100% an upgrade for the Lakers, and it was obviously a great move that they were able to make that addition. That being said, the Areza thing when it came up,

and this one, I didn't think it got talked about all that much. It is a little bit of an odd fit given their wings on their team, right? because you'd imagine that LeBron James is going to want veterans on the court with him, guys that have been in the trenches, et cetera, et cetera, when it matters. Like Robin Lopez. Yeah, but he does have a bunch of young wings on that team. And so whose minutes does that hurt if they do attain ERISA, right? Is it Ingrams?

Is it Coosmas? I think it's Lance. I think it's Lance. Yeah, I really do think it's Lance. Really? Yeah, I do. But Lance is getting minutes now more so because Ingram's not in the mix. I mean, you'd expect Ingram to be a big minutes guy and he's not there right now. FEMA-Kiluk is as well.

So I think Eriza can offer some minutes off the bench for that team. When I saw them in person, obviously they had just come off a devastating loss in San Antonio where they had controlled the game the entire night and then they blew it in the fourth quarter. Grizzlies had a great win at the Pelicans, turned around, and then they got blasted by the Lakers on their home floor. During the course of that game, Josh Hart, who I love. Oh, he's great, isn't he? He was amazing in the first half, and then in the second half, KCP hit a bunch of shots, but Kuzma throughout the entire game was unbelievable.

Dude, he is. He's been unreal. It is one of those where when, and he is a sneaky one, when you see him in person, he is a lot bigger than you think he is. He's tall, and he is obviously strong to fantastic player. Yeah, he's bigger than I thought. It was startling to me. And the other thing was I wondered if you've had a lot of this throughout the season

where there's been this great chemistry between LeBron and Coosma. And I thought to myself, I wonder if this is the same when Ingram's in the mix, that it feels like Cozma is really flourishing when Ingram's not there. And I went and pulled it, that three-man lineup, if you just have LeBron, Coosma, and Hart out there, they got a net rating of plus 11.5 points per 100 possessions. LeBron and Coosma themselves are like plus 3.3. And then LeBron and Ingram on the court at the same time is barely over a net zero. And so I did wonder, you see these guys playing with each other and it just seemed to fit

really well. And then again, you look last night, LeBron's awesome. And guess who else is awesome? Coosma. Coosma. Cousma's been awesome. I do wonder if they look at that and they just say, man, the chemistry between these two is so great

and you wonder if Ingram is long term there. That's all I'm saying. Was it on this show Chris, a couple weeks ago where I said Cusman's overrated? Wasn't this show in quarter three. But at the time when I said that, Cusman wasn't playing a lick of defense.

He wasn't really making a significant impact in the boards. doesn't pass the ball. And since then, or around that time, at least this month, this month, Coosman's averaging 25 points, 8.2 at rebounds, 3.4 assists. He has been an all-round superstar this month for the Lakers. This is the best version of Kyle Coosman that we're seeing right now. And if he's able to sustain this at all, and it's not just the scoring, ignore that, it's the rebounding, it's the effort on defense, it's making smart passes. it's all of those things adding up that make him right now

a second start of LeBron James on this team, right? The way he's performing in this moment is special. And we all thought that was going to be Ingram. We did. Yeah, you look at Ingram's skill set, it still could be. A couple years from now, if he's more developed, but it has not manifested him for him in a way that shows that it could be sustainable.

It's always just been little flashes here and there, right? Like I think last month they hit a big game, Utah or Miami one of those two teams where he had just a really, really big impressive game and he's had those over time. But he needs to sustain it. It's still only 21 years old.

But yeah, I do wonder if it'll end up being in L.A. that he ends up popping or somewhere else. To take a page from our co-workers, Vince Carter and Kent Baysmore on their Winging It podcast. Are we going to talk about the moon? Kevin, do you believe that we landed on the moon?

I do believe we landed on the moon. I do, too. Yeah. You look at some of the conspiracies out there. I was listening to Joe Rogan a couple weeks back, or at least watching one of the YouTube videos about him talking about the moon landing. And he's like, how do you fit these cameras in a small little spaceship? It's like, well, if we could build something to get to the moon,

I think we could figure out how to film it. Do you think that, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Do you think that Steph Curry will take up NASA on their, invitation for him to come see the evidence of the moon landing. NASA has publicly invited Steph Curry to see their evidence. Oh, you got to say yes to that, man. If NASA ever invited me to see stuff from the moon or do anything for that matter, that's space stuff, I'd be like, hell yeah, count me in, like them try to get a couple days off to go make that happen. You got to say yes

to that if you're Steph Curry, of course, make it happen, stuff. Now we have now over the course of the next several weeks. We are now going to it's another little plot that's going on. Does Steph Curry change his mind? Does NASA does he accept NASA's invitation and then change his mind on what happened

all those years ago with a movie? And there was just a movie about it. I mean, hell, you could just go watch that movie, right? They just did the movie on Neil Armstrong. Isaac just messaged me. Warriors Play the Rockets March 13th. there you go

we may have to wait until March so we get our answer yeah we may have to yeah we'll know then Kevin it is always a pleasure and I will talk to you next week thanks to everybody for listening to another edition

of the Ringer NBA show The Mismatch if you dig with your hand go give us a rating and review on iTunes five stars five stars and we'll talk to you next week you next week