The Ringer NBA Show - LeBron to the Finals (Again), Warriors-Rockets Game 7, and Mourning the Celtics | Heat Check (Ep. 277)

Episode Date: May 28, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez is joined by Shea Serrano to react to LeBron James’s Cleveland Cavaliers advancing past the Boston Celtics to the Finals (2:33). Then Jonathan Tjarks calls in to preview the Western Conference finals Game 7 between the Golden State Warriors and Houston Rockets (24:26). Finally Politico’s Jason Schwartz and Thrillist’s Kevin Alexander call in to eulogize the Boston Celtics’ season (39:42). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's a heat check. You know that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to the heat check podcast. I'm your host, John Gonzalez, joined as I am every week by our producer, Isaac. Isaac Lee. We just watched the Eastern Conference Finals game seven. Oh, yeah.

LeBron James, Isaac. LeBron James. That's basically the entire podcast, and we're done. We're into the outro already. Repeat his name a couple times. It wasn't a pretty game. It was an ugly game, but LeBron James did it. I want to say also, by the way, happy Memorial Day to everybody who's listening to the Heat Check

podcast and who checked down. out LeBron getting to his eighth straight NBA finals. That was pretty impressive. We're going to talk about that a lot on this podcast. And there's going to be plenty of podcasts from the Ringer NBA show that you're going to want to check out this week. Because of that, we've got the Ringer NBA show feed. We've got Bill Simmons's podcast.

And of course, Bill Simmons wrote a really good piece, prescient piece about Jason Tatum and how good Jason Tatum is. He was excellent for the Celtics in game seven. Wasn't quite enough, but you should go and check out that story. It was basically about how Jason Tatum didn't quite realize that he was a Celtics best player, even though he is. I think after this game, he might realize that he's a Celtics best player because he went right at LeBron. He gave LeBron everything that he could handle and almost pulled it off. It was a very impressive performance.

We've also got KOC piece on Clay Thompson and the Warriors forcing Game 7 on Monday night. And Jonathan Charks wrote about game seven of the Eastern Conference finals. That'll be up on the ringer. So we're going to talk to Charks a little bit later on to preview the Warriors Rock. series. And also, those of you who have listened to this podcast, you know, at length and have stuck with me, know that back during the Sixers Celtic series, I had mentioned, I had lived in Boston for a while and worked in Boston for a while. And so I have, unfortunately, for me, many friends from Boston, two of whom had sort of like given me a lot of heat after the Sixers series, they were

like texting me while I was at a party and really busting my chops about it. Well, for the first time ever, those two knuckleheads who are also in the media will show up on this program. We're going to have mass holes on the heat check podcast. That'll be at the very end of the show. But first, to break down, game seven, LeBron James going to the finals, the Celtics getting close, but not close enough. We're going to bring in one of our absolute favorites at the heat check.

Let's do it. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me on the other line. He's a two-time New York Times bestseller. He's got a beautiful family. Every time I think life can't be better for Shea Serrano, I look up. But he's got this beautiful family.

They named a gym after him. he's wildly rich and successful. Barack Obama once said that he was reading Shay's books or following him around or something. And then I look up during the game, during Game 7, and I'm like, oh, Shea's going to come on. And I look up on Twitter and Chance the rapper is tweeting it's Shea Serrano. Shea, I don't know how you're on this podcast. You're too famous for us. I feel like, I don't know.

I feel like in Space Jam, well, Michael Jordan was playing basketball with Elmer Fudd. That's what I feel like right now. I'm definitely how more fun in this scenario. I'll take it, though. You're here,

here you are. We watched Game 7 here. You watched Game 7 there in your home with your lovely family. It wasn't a pretty game, but LeBron James got it done.

Yeah, it was not, it was exactly the type of game everybody thought it was going to be going in. Both, and only give them one game off before, but that's what it is.

Frade of the other team. There was a weird period during the beginning of the fourth where it was hard to tell who, wanted to win, though? Does LeBron really want to win this game? He looks kind of weird right now.

And the Celtics, he starts saying the same thing about them. And then, yeah, LeBron hits that that other gear or switch or whatever you want to call it, that very few other people on the planet can do and just sort of pulled away from them. It's really amazing. I mean, and you did call this. I want to give you credit for this because you and I talked the other day on the phone and I asked you, well, you thought this game was going to be and you said ugly, and it was. It was super ugly.

but LeBron, he played all 48 minutes and he really was, you know, they're everything per usual. He had 35 points. Jeff Green was their second leading score at 19 and that was basically, yeah, but LeBron played all 48 minutes. He made half his shots. And down the stretch, I mean, he was just in a monster

and like him flexing on like the entire city of Boston was just amazing. Yeah, the Jeff Green game, who would have thought? The Celtics are undefeated in the playoffs at home and then Jeff Green was. walks in the door. Look, so I caught myself, I'm watching the game, and

of course we knew LeBron was going to have to have another takeover game. I'm surprised he didn't get to 40 points again, but he did everything else. But I was sticking to myself like, okay, they don't have Kevin Love, the rest of their roster is really garbage. And there was a point there in the game when I was thinking,

oh, they need to get Jeff Green back in the game. And then I was like, this is terrible. Like, how bad is the roster? Yeah, if you say, if that's a sentence that comes out of your mouth, that's how you know you're talking about team. I should have lost in the first round of the playoffs. And yet here they are.

LeBron for an eight straight. Eight. Eight. Eight, John. That's incredible. I can't name eight other things that have happened in a row. But I know, but LeBron has done this for eight years straight. Almost 3,000 days we're talking about.

It's been since somebody who was not LeBron James from the East was in the finals. It's unbelievable. The last time he wasn't in the finals, Kobe Bryant was still a good basketball player and the Lakers beat the Celtics in the finals and Kobe was MVP. That's how long ago it was.

Kobe's out there making, he's winning Oscars. He doesn't play basketball anymore. It's been forever. Yeah, every single person, they can say the last time LeBron James was not in the finals, and then whatever they say after that,

their whole lives were different. Yeah. Like if I think before LeBron was in the finals, I had less people alive in my family. It is unreal. Yeah, what were you doing eight years ago? Eight years ago puts me at 28 years old, so I wasn't doing anything. I had just started writing.

I was still very poor, and life was pretty, like, pretty low-key great, but not as great as it is now that I get to watch LeBron James be in the finals every single year. Your life is great for a lot of reasons. That's like the least of the reasons why your life is so great. But you're right. Like watching LeBron, I don't, there was sort of this internal debate.

Well, you and I actually might have talked about it on a previous episode of He Check, but there was this internal debate at the ringer about like whether or not we were all ready for something new and fresh, because it has been a long time. And I understand if people go,

you know, I wouldn't mind seeing the Celtics get in just because it would be a different look for the NBA in the finals and a different look for fandom. For me personally, I want as much LeBron in my life as possible until LeBron is done giving us great performances like this.

Yeah, I think that's fair. Because you're talking about a third best player in the history of all of basketball. It's whatever order you have in there, it's probably something like Jordan is obviously in there. LeBron is in there. And then maybe there's a, you know, you might throw a wild card in there like Kareen. But you're watching that guy who we won't see another one like him for who knows how long, another 10 or 15 years before we get another player of that caliber. So yeah, you should want him to stick around as long as possible.

I mean, he's literally doing things that nobody has ever done ever. I just saw a thing right before you called where he has more points in game sevens than anybody in the history of the NBA. And he's played less game seven than I think he passed Jerry West. But Jerry West has played one more game seven than a lot more. There are like a million little things that you get to say like that about LeBron. That just like what else is that this is one of the greatest about time. We should want him doing this for as long as possible. That's incredible that he's capable of doing it because he's 33, right?

He led the league in minutes this year. He played every single game. And now he's leading the playoffs in minutes. He played all 48 minutes in game seven. It's just insane. Like at the end of the game and Isaac and I were kind of goofing about it as we walked over the podcast studio. But at the end of the game, Jeff Gitt Van Gundy said this is the greatest achievement that LeBron will ever have. And I was laughing about it because it's an absurd statement.

I mean, the guy has won three championships and he's a multi-time MVP and multi-time finals MVP. But at the same time, like the fact that he's able to eat that many minutes at 33 years old and to will this garbage team into the finals, it's not that outlandish statement. It's really an impressive feat. Yeah. there's nothing, again, there's nothing like this that we've seen about this individual run with this group of players or that he's extending his stretch of, I mean, nobody, you have to go back to like when the Celtics were like, there were seven teams in the NBA and they were all white except for like three players. Like you've got to go back to when everything was different

before you can say, oh, this other person went to eight or more finals in a row. Yeah. Nobody, nobody should be able to do this. in a league with 30 teams, nobody should be able to do this, regardless of where you're playing in the east and the west. I mean, just think there could, there should have been one year,

2010, pick a year, whatever. There should have been one where he like twisted his ankle or something. Yeah, yeah, something. One little thing should have happened that should have kept him out of the finals at least once. He should have gone up against somebody who they just went nuts in the playoffs against them. But it just never happened.

That's how good. He is. Well, he almost went for a triple double tonight. He had 35, 15 rebounds, and nine assists. So he was one off the triple double. He shot 50% from the floor. He was really incredible. And when you're talking about something should have conspired against him at some point,

this should have been that point. This year has been a crazy year for the Cavs. It's been bad all year long. I've been around them a little bit this year. And every time I see them, they always say the same thing. They're like, I don't know. We're still trying to figure it out. I'm like, you're in the Eastern Conference finals at this point.

But just for him to have that performance in this game, when nobody else, aside from Jeff Green, which is really, again, a very funny statement, showed up. I mean, Shea, they shot 25.7% from three-point range, which was just, which, believe it or not, was better than the Celtics who shot 17.9% from three-point range. I mean, you look at the, yeah, I mean, it was just a rock fight all night long, and yet still LeBron sort of pushed them over the top.

I mean, look at their bench performance tonight. They got eight minutes out of Larry Nance Jr. They got nine minutes out of Jordan Clarkson, which was probably 10 minutes too much. And then they got 18 minutes out of Kyle Corver, who didn't hit his first shot until the fourth quarter. I mean, he was really bad. They just didn't shoot well at all.

I'm surprised when I look at this supporting cast that they got this far, really. Yeah, this round. I mean, you look at other players that people like to compare LeBron to you, like Kobe. Kobe has years where his team didn't make the play at that year. Jordan had it, got older, had it, and LeBron has just never, never had it. You know, it's crazy. I just saw, I'm looking at the thing with you, Terry Rozier, 0 for 10 from 3.

He was a little scary. Yeah. Terry was a little scary tonight. Explain to me, so, yeah, let's get into the Celtics a little bit because, so Terry Rozier was 0 for 10 from 3. He was two for 14 from the field. On top of that, and this happened all series long, where he ended up getting switched on to LeBron,

and LeBron victimized him for most of the series. Tonight, for some reason, it wasn't quite as bad because LeBron was taking some shots over him early in the game instead of just driving right at him. But Terry Rozier was not good defensively in this game either. And, like, Kevin O'Connor put this in our slack, and he was right about it. I was really kind of surprised that Brad Stevens,

kept going back to him. Terry Rozier played 36 minutes tonight, and he was terrible. Well, who are you going to put in there? I mean, you need a point card. I guess you can have Tatum, maybe run the point card, but that doesn't seem like it's going to work out for a great deal of time. I think you have to have Rozier in that moment. If nothing else, nobody expected them to be this far anyway. Yeah. So let him get his minutes and let him feel what that fire feels like on his feet so that when he comes back next year, he goes like, all right, I remember this. and then I'm standing next to the Kyrie now, so I don't have to play 36 minutes.

I can play 18 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever. Like, that's fine. I'm not too worried about that. It is crazy that he missed all 10 of his three. Insane. On some, like, James Hardin shit. What are you going to do? What about that?

At the end of the, towards the end of the game, was, you know, like a minute and a half, two minutes left, maybe under, where he had missed nine in a row, and he got the ball on the baseline, and dribbled back out for a three

and shot this sort of like like turn around almost a turnaround three from the corner and I'm like that you're right that was some James Harden shit I'm like he's shooting he checked threes and he hasn't made one yet yeah that's why that's that's part of the reason everybody loves him though

yeah he's just you know he's just gonna do he's gonna do what he does so not a good performance for him not a good performance for Jalen Brown who was also sort of MIA tonight 5 for 18 from the floor he only made three of his 12 three pointers so those were absolutely killer

Jason, I mean, we really need to talk about Jason Tatum because Jason Tatum was the reason why the Celtics were in this game. He's the reason why the Celtics were in this series. He's the reason why they made it this far after Kyrie Irving went down. That kid had a minute there where he looked like a rookie during the regular season and it like sort of caught up to him. And then all of a sudden it was over and he was just like a superstar. He has been absolutely unbelievable. Yeah, he of course had the big dunk on LeBron. Insane.

And then I believe it was right after that he hit the three. To put them in the lead. And then we got Jeff Green 3 right after that, unfortunately, for them. But, yeah, Tatum is a real deal. I wonder what Ben Simmons was thinking when he was watching that game. That's what I want to know. I was saying this to Isaac. Brian Colangelo, I don't know what he was thinking.

I didn't fault him for moving up in the draft. I do, however, fault him very much for giving Danny Aange an extra pick on top of Danny Aange ending up with Jason Tatum. because this kid's not going to be a superstar down the line. He's, Bill Simmons wrote about this on The Ringer.com, shouts to the boss, where he said, like, you know, Jason Tatum might not even realize that he's their best player. He's unbelievable right now, not tomorrow, today. Yeah, right now.

He's going to start next year. He's already their second best player, probably. I was going to ask you about this. When Kyrie and Gordon come back, where do you, because now all of a sudden, like, it was one thing for Brad Stevens to go, okay, well, we need offense and we need somebody to take over, and this kid's obviously our best option. But what happens when those two guys come back? Like, where does he fall in the pecking order,

and how do they incorporate everybody? I feel like he gobbled up some of the, like, I mean, you need Kyrie at point guard, and Kyrie does what Kyrie does. It's great at that. And Tatum next to each other, like, that's dangerous. Because you know if Kyrie was in this game, they would not have shot 17% from three.

It would have all felt a little bit different. everything would have been a little bit easier for them because that's what Kyrie does when he's in the game. He's so threatening that he just opens everything else up for everybody else. So watching this, it definitely felt like he sort of leapfrogged Gordon, which is probably unfair. I mean, Gordon's an all-star. And I think it might just be because we haven't seen him play in so long that you kind of forget how great he is. But tonight, after that game, after that stretch where Tatham tried to do. to steal the game for the Celtics,

it feels like he's their second best player. He's a rookie, and not only did he keep them in that game, but he was shot for shot, dunk for dunk, defensive possession for defense possession with the best player of his era, that entire game.

Like, he was going right at, like you said, he literally dunked on LeBron, which was one of those, I don't think that's a good idea, and then he threw it down anyway, and I was like, oh my God,

I can't believe he pulled that off. And like, for him to be able to in that moment, because they showed this earlier in the game broadcast where the very first shot of his NBA career earlier in the year was blocked by LeBron and now all of a sudden, and he even admitted it, he was like, I was shook,

you know, playing against my hero and it was a weird thing. And now all of a sudden, however many games later, towards the end of the season and the Eastern Conference finals in a game seven, he looks like all that, like he's every bit as good and he knows he belongs there, crazy. It's so fun to watch Twitter.

Yeah. And we go from that to just dunking on him very aggressively, and not just dunking on him, dunking on him, and then running up on him with his chest out,

like yelling at LeBron. It's insane. You can isolate that play and say, okay, that's a difference between somebody like Tatum who is going to be like a legitimate Superstar

versus Terry, and then everybody loves them, but he's probably, he doesn't have that level to get to, like Tatum does. He went up for that same dunk against LeBron and LeBron got him. Tatum went up and he got LeBron. Like, that's just a little thing to look at and say, like, oh, that's a different between these two guys. And it's, I know that it's dumb to pick one play and do that, but that's what I would do.

Like, on the one hand, I've liked watching Tatum all year long. And from the very beginning, anybody who's listening to this podcast and it was like, back when Juliet and I were doing it regularly together, we're all about the J-Team. and like you could see this progression with this kid. But for me, it's gone from I really like watching him to now going, ah, shit. For the next however many years, he's just going to terrorize the Eastern Conference and the Sixers.

And I can't believe the Sixers instead have Mark L. It's really upsetting. Yeah, what happens when, because how old is, like, 20, right? It just turned 20. Okay. Sounds of muscle. Like, well, you know what I'm saying? It's terrifying.

that's even worse than what we're looking at now. He's going to be running shit for a good little while, it feels like. For a good little while. I think like if you're the Celtics, it probably feels disappointing right now, but with a little bit of perspective, you look back and you go,

holy shit, look what we did without Kyrie and Gordon. And also on top of that, look how far Jason Tatum came and the experience he gleaned for this? Because exactly what you said, like in a couple years when he's, you know, 20, 30 pounds heavier, and just like all of a sudden looking like LeBron,

this is going to go a long way for them. I feel like that, for sure. Although we might be romanticized and everything. It might all fall apart, but no. I hope so. Let's root for that. Listen, I never, I have a lot of friends in Boston, and nothing pleases me more than when things fall apart for them.

What do you think before, because you have a lot of things going on in your life, but before you go, what do you think now, LeBron gets into the finals again, eight straight time. It's amazing. but as we said, this team is limited. He's the guy. Whoever gets out of Game 7 for the Western Conference is going to be a tough matchup for them.

First, give me, what do you think happens in Game 7 on Monday night? Play, he's going to be at, like, bullshit like that. Yeah, it is. But the Rockers just can't keep up. He's the guy who's not afraid. He's the guy that they can sort of... We got a guy who's not backing down. So that's going to hurt them a whole bunch.

And that's what we saw in the... game six. Like, it was a great game. 74, 70 with like six minutes left in the third quarter. And then the warriors did that thing where they just sort of reached for your neck and start squeezing it and you know, hard and win and visible.

He had played great up until then he had, like, you know, 30-something points. And then over the last 18 minutes of the game, it was just bad. You needed that energy and you needed that crisp all energy. And like, you can't put all that on James, of course. He's just one guy against four really, really good. I mean, two of the best players in the NBA, a third time, and Clay, and then

Draymond. It's unfair to say it's James' fault. It's fun to do, but it's unfair. I think the Warriors are run away from them in Game 7, and then they run away from the Cavs in the finals. Did I see some positive Houston Rockets tweets from you, by the way, in the last game, were you kind of, like, secretly rooting for them there? No, I've very openly been rooting for them. I want to see the Warriors that rockets all of my energy from the universe that I can to see the Warriors lose. This is an incredible turn of events for Spurs Superfan. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's less rooting for the Rockets. It's more rooting against the Warriors. But yeah, I do want the Rockets to win. That would make me very happy. The number one scenario is the Rocket to beat the Warriors, and then they lose to LeBron. That's the number one scenario for me. That would be amazing.

I think, I'm with you. I think the Warriors are probably going to run away. with it, especially without Chris Paul. But do you give LeBron any shot to steal a game against either of those teams? If they play the Rockets, he's got a chance. He can do enough against Hardin the Rockets to steal that series from them. It would be a long theory. It would be six or seven.

And he would have to do what he did tonight, basically. I just would trust him with that pressure on him more than I would trust Hardin at this point. So, yeah, but if it's the Warriors, no. And that's going to, it's going to super stuck because as soon as they lose, we're going to have to, for the rest of our lives, hear a bunch of idiots saying, oh, but LeBron lost as many finals as Jordan won. Like, okay. I can already hear it happening, and I'm already upset about it. Yeah, it's, we're all bracing for that. I'm hoping for a good finals either way. Make sure that you read, Shea Serrano. He's constantly writing stuff. He's on the heat check podcast all the time. He's been on some other podcasts. Not as fun as this one, though. I appreciate it. You're the LeBron James of He-check. I'll take it. All right, homie. Thanks for doing this. All right, later.

Later. I love having Shea on the program. That was fun to talk to him, and it's always fun to talk to Jonathan Charks. Who's going to be coming on right now to talk about Warriors and Rockets. All right, joining me on the other line from the NBA Draft Class podcast. He's a regular here on Heat Check. He's got a fantastic story that's going to be up. As we're recording this, it'll be up right afterwards on Game 7 from the Easter Conference.

Ron's big win. It's Jonathan Charks. What's up, Charks? How you doing, guys? Fun to watch LeBron, man. Never get tired of it. We were just talking about that with Shea. I think you and I actually talked about it on this podcast I said I saw me you're on where I was like, I want as much LeBron in my life as I can possibly get it until I can't get it anymore. Where are you on? Do you have any LeBron fatigue? Are you happy that he's back in the finals again? I had some LeBron fatigue coming into the series, but he was just so great. And I think it's also like you're starting to see him being a little aging, so you know it's not going to last forever.

So let's get us more LeBron in our lives. I'm not mad about it. Yeah, and that performance, you and I were talking right before you came on. That was amazing, right? I mean, to see him do that yet again with that support and cast is incredible. And for him to play all 48 minutes is incredible. For him to make his A straight finals is incredible. And like, I don't know, man, he's a monster. It's just unbelievable, man.

So, like, what I'm writing about for tomorrow was really amazing about LeBron's to me. So you go back to that last year for Toronto. They won that Toronto series with offense. They played LeBron, Love, Corver. And they won games like 125 to 110, right? And then like they come to the Cleveland series. That's not working. Love gets hurt.

Corver is not playing a lot. So they go all defense around LeBron. They play like LeBron, Thompson, Green, Hill Smith. And they went like 85-75. Like the team changed in two weeks. And LeBron is just so good at everything that they make it work. Because no matter who's around him, LeBron finds a way. It's really, it's remarkable, man.

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where you watch it and like, like, I understand the fatigue that people have just from an entertainment perspective because we are barreling towards, and we're going to get into Warriors Rockets here in just a second. But we're barreling towards another finals where LeBron's in it, but he probably doesn't have enough weapons to pull anything out. And that's kind of a bummer. However, I think like, you know, when he's all, when he's done for good and we think back on this period and this stretch and we think about how much energy is required and. On top of that, how much skill and how much luck for him to make eight straight finals. And who knows how many more he could potentially make, depending on where he lands in the offseason. I will say this. Like, somebody may catch Jordan's six rings, but eight straight finals in this era and the modern NBA,

I'm not sure that gets caught. That is eight straight final, just not getting hurt. Yeah. Eight straight years. All the games he's played. The endurance, the amount of minutes, like the amount of energy, the amount of effort. There was this video before the game where somebody put it on Twitter where it was like the rest of the cab standing in the hallway outside the visitor's locker room at the garden. And LeBron was doing push-ups and they were just watching him.

And I'm like, that's perfect. LeBron is doing work even before the game and his teammates are still watching him. It was perfect. Hashtag narrative right there. Perfect. Perfect kicker for a story. Let's get into Warriors and Rockets. Game 7 on Monday night.

We're excited about it. Game 6 was interesting. If you're a Warriors fan and a lot less interesting, if you're a Rockets fan, Warriors won by 29. They outscored Houston 64 to 25 in the second half. Clay Thompson went off. We got a Clay sighting, 35 points, nine threes. Man, I love Clay.

That quote after the game where he was like, am I bitter for this? Not really. Well, I guess I am. Clay just lives in the moment, man. Clay just whatever happens right in front of him. He has no memory, perfect shooter, no conscience. Love it.

It's amazing to see how quickly he can get shots up to. According to Second Spectrum, they track, you know, like do a bunch of tracking on this. Seven of his nine made threes charks, he released it within one second of touching the ball. That's insane. Gosh. And because he's six foot seven, so like you have to be attached. So he shoots over most guys anyways. It's, yeah, Clay is, man.

When Clay gets going, there's nothing you can even do about it. You just give them the points because, like, yeah, it's that fast, that size? Yeah, it's insane. On top of that, they got 23 from KD. They got 29 from Steph. As a team, they shot over 42% from three and almost 50% from the floor. We've gone back and forth in this series because the series hasn't produced many close games. Games four and five were close in that it was combined seven points, but the rest of them were all Warriors wins and blowouts.

Every time I look at the Warriors, though, when they're clicking, and I go, oh, right, of course, they're the Warriors, they're going to win this. Yeah, I mean, I think Houston, if I was Houston, I think the formula is Cleveland's formula tonight. Because you look at those two wins they had. They work in the 90s. Slow the pace, limit possessions, play great defense, and just count your superstar to carry you home at home. I mean, James Hardin is not LeBron, but he might have to be to win tomorrow night, especially with Paul being limited if he even plays. Yeah, so Chris Paul is questionable to play. They think he's going to be a game time decision.

That's such a bummer. I mean, he'll get a Willis Reed probably, right? I think he'll get a Willis Reed moment at the very least. he'll try. I mean, I think so, but like, I wonder, I mean, how much, like, how much it's really bothering him and how much he can be out there because, I mean, he was, he was fantastic for them in this series. And, and you could make a case that he was a better option for them than Hardin in some spots. Hardin, you know, went, went two games straight without making a three-point or finally got it going in game six. But he scored 32 in game six, and they still got blown out.

Like, I wonder what kind of performance they'd have to get from Hardin without Paul to pull this out. I don't know what the calculation would be. I would think like they pinied 40 from Hardin, maybe like 20, 25 from Gordon. The other guys make enough three. That's what's tough is like there's so few guys who create shots in that roster. So you miss Paul. It's just Hardin and Gordon. Who else is getting, I mean, Gerald Green. Like, yeah. Well, you need, I mean, you need something from someone somewhere, right? I mean, like, and this is something that continues to amaze me. Like, you look at the, the Rockets who were the best team in the NBA this season. They have, the heavy, heavy favorite for MVP is going to win it.

And yet, you look at their roster and you go, I don't think they have enough, right? Like, especially without Chris Paul, even with Chris Paul, I'm not sure that they have enough. But they've got, I mean, they're going to have to get something out of ERISA fine, but like you're not going to get 30 points out of ERISA. Maybe you, maybe Gordon catches fire and just flames them from three. But beyond that, yeah, you've got Jail Green and nothing.

You've got nothing on your bench. You have nothing that you can. Capella? I don't know. The big thing to me, that Golden State did early in the series, is like when they switched everything and they were like,

we're going to live with Hardin Paul and Gordon going one-on-one, and we're not going to let these supporting cast guys get open shots. Like, if a race is going to score, it's going to be off a dribble. So, like, yeah, because most teams can't switch those screens

and even contain Harden Paul and Gordon. Goldstake can at least kind of contain them, and that's all you have to do because nobody else can score on that team. They can all just spot up. They need someone getting them shots. It's interesting that you said that you think that they should ugly up the game

because the Rockets should ugly up the game and play it slow. Because that's obviously not how they played the entire season. I mean, they were, you know, run, run, run, shoot as many threes as you possibly can, you know, take as many shots early in your first and second actions as possible and just outscorer teams. And they were 22 and 2 during the regular season. This is a Kevin O'Connor special stat,

22 and 2 during the regular season when they shot 40% or better from 3. But they haven't hit that mark once during the Warrior series. So for me, like I guess, just in a vacuum, I think to myself, God, if they're going to win it, they've got to be really hot from three again, except for, you know, maybe you're right. Maybe they don't have that ability to do that in this series.

Yeah, I just, I wonder if, like, Golden State is going to say, we're going to stay, like, they've been staying home on shooters a lot. So it's like, yeah, like, they're missing shots, but they're not getting open shots like they were in the regular season against defenses. Like, Golden State's trying not to rotate. Like, you look at those first two series, the Minnesota and Utah series. They're like, we don't want our big men. guarding, Hardin, and Paul.

So we're going to send multiple guys and rotate. Well, Hughes is going to kill it every time. Golden State's saying, you know what? Those guys beat us. They beat us. We're staying home. We're not rotating. We're not letting those other guys get open threes because that's when they're

unbeatable when those guys make threes. Yeah. And Golden State's defense, too. I mean, you're right. Like, they're going to say, hey, you know, if those other guys can beat us, then good luck with that. But on top of that, like, they force the rockets into 21 turnovers in game six, which is their second most of the season.

They were just swarming. They were everywhere. and they're so long. And like you mentioned Clint Capella. Like when they decide to take Clint Capella out of the game,

it didn't feel like it was that big a challenge for them. And I just look around at the rest of the cast that Houston has and I go, I don't know. I don't know how they do it.

I don't know how they pull it off, even though it is a home game and we've seen how important home court advantage has been in both series. I just think it's just like a really, really tall order for them. I'd be surprised if they went in.

If I was Houston, I would think like, because Golden States puts bad lineups out sometimes because, like, they're supporting cast and pretty bad in the series, too. It is. So when they have, like, Looney, Bell and Dick Young in there, I would get maybe Ryan Anderson in.

Maybe you can get, like, 10 quick points that are Ryan Anderson. Just, like, take five threes. I don't even care. And maybe you can score those guys in those two-minute stretch. Find some, like, found money on offense. But he's such a net negative because he's a disaster on defense. Like, where would you even hide him? Well, I think, I think, like, so you put him on Kavanaughn-Luny,

and if they screen with Luni, you trap the ball and say, if Kvon-Loney beats me four on three, Kavanaugh-leu-beets me 4-on-3. I'll live with that. I think that's maybe the idea. I don't know. I'm digging deep here, Cairns. I know. I know. I think that you're, I like that you're doing this. I think that this is good for if you're a Rockets fan, like, Charx is trying to find a way for them to win this game. But I think when your answer is, hey, maybe you can get something out of Ryan Anderson, you're fucked. I mean, you've got to play the game, right? You can't give up for the game starts. He gets come up with something without a plan. Yeah, fair enough. It's just like,

I, it's kind of weird, isn't it, that we got two game sevens and then like not many of these games were close and good, right? Like there was, like I said, games four and five were combined seven points in the Western Conference and we just had game seven that was a bad game, but it was close enough to be dramatic. But it's kind of crazy that we went to game seven in both series. And I don't feel like either series was particularly like tight or entertaining. No, not really. I guess Houston Golden State has found its way in four and five, but it was ugly basketball. I wonder if it's like the variance thing with three-pointers.

If you're taking so many threes, the game can swing so fast, right? It feels like games could decide. It feels like what the way the three is now, you can win a game at any point in the game. Like you can have a three-minute stretch for you, just knock out a team. And so it's hard to get the game close to the end because the game can be decided in four minutes.

Yeah, it's, I was talking to some of my friends who work at NFL Network, as does my wife, just talking to her about it too. But like if this had happened in say like the NFL playoffs or even like baseball playoffs where like a bunch of the games were not close at all and were blowouts in the conference finals, there would be like a bunch of think pieces about like what a crisis they were going through. And in the NBA like we've almost kind of gotten used to it because of the way the finals have gone recently. And it's a bummer.

Like I really like close dramatic basketball. ball, and I am afraid that we're not going to get many more of those games the rest of the way. I would say props to the blog boys. Like, we're giving them good content. Like, we're finding a way to keep it, you know, keeping everybody happy with our content. Yes, we are. I think, like, the big thing with, like, the public, it's like, because you got LeBron, one of the greatest players of all time.

You got the Warriors, one of the greatest teams of all time. I think people like greatness. They tune into that. Like, when I'm a casual fan of a sport, like, I love to watch the best soccer team of all time. I won't watch two good soccer teams play because I don't care. care. But when it's like the best of all time, it drives your curiosity, I think. Yeah, and that's why I'm happy that LeBron is going to be in there. And I think that the Warriors are going to barrel the way to another finals.

And we're going to get yet another matchup between those two teams. It's just, the Warriors are just so overloaded with talent, not to skip over the Houston Rockets here. If the Rockets make it, that would make it, you know, an interesting finals. See, that's what I like, I'm kind of rooting for the Rockets, just so it's a different finals, but just would be something interesting. Yeah, I feel like Warriors Cavs. we'll have to dig deep into our blog content to come up with something for that one. We'll have to really work for that. Can we just

recycle everything we wrote last year? Let's just do that. We'll just swap out like Jordan Clarkson for somebody. It'll be fine. So give me a prediction here for Game 7. I mean, just like LeBron

in the East, I'm not going to bet against the Warriors or somebody beats them. I'm not to have to go with Golden State. I'm with you. I think it's Golden State. I think they get through. The Rockets had a hell of a season, but that's a really tough blow to lose Chris Paul. And even with Chris Paul, it was going to be a tall order anyway, because I just like, it's hard for me, just like you said, even if they were fully healthy, I would still probably bet on the Warriors because of the Warriors. And until you unseat them, you know, you've got to go through them.

All right. So let's say it as Warriors and they get through. Any chance LeBron steals a game? Yeah, I mean, I would look at if Iguodal is healthy. I think Golden State's supporting cast has really been exposed in the series. Like after their top four, who do you trust? I mean, Livingston's not the moment in 15 minutes. You got Looney and Bell, Nick Young, who knows. I think if Aguadala is not healthy, they really only have four good players right now. That gives Cleveland a chance to steal one at home, I think.

If Big Godal is healthy, I think they're just too good. Yeah, and it looks like Egadala isn't healthy. Is he playing? Is he playing tomorrow? It doesn't look like it, no. And these players have shown, like, you've got to have a good player at every position. Like, it can be attacked. like Goldstein has four great players,

but that fifth player can be attacked by Cleveland, I think. That'll be like what they have to go on. It's going to be tough for Cleveland. But at least we get more LeBron, right? I mean, like, that's something that we're both in agreement on and we get to see him. And look, we'll enjoy it while we can

and maybe he steals a game. And eventually we'll get off this Warriors versus LeBron in Cleveland carousel. I mean, LeBron's getting himself a squad this summer. Like, LeBron's tired of those in the Warriors. He's going to make some phone calls. I'm excited for this summer. LeBron's going to get him a nice team, I think.

Go get him a squad. We all want to see that happen. For now, we'll take one more series with the Cavs. Go read Jonathan Charks. He's got a bunch of stuff up on the ringer. It's all excellent. He'll be back later in the week on the NBA show on draft class and some other concerns. Charks, you're the best. Thanks for doing this.

All right, man, good times as always. All right, homie. That was Jonathan Charks. Always love having him on the program. These next two guys are my two buddies from Boston who are in mourning. and that's why I'm excited to have them on. Normally, guys from Boston on the program, they'd have to work here to be on heat check,

but because they lost, I'm happy to talk to my buddies and poke a little fun at them. Let's bring in my Boston guys. All right, joining me on the other line, two of my, and I'm doing air quotes here when I say friends because they're from Boston. A former editor at ESPN The Magazine,

now a reporter at Politico, Jason Schwartz is here, and a national writer at, large at Thrillist. He's also won a James Beard Award. Somehow, Kevin Alexander is here. Somehow, they're both from Boston, and neither of them are named Schmitty or

Sully, and they were quite distraught about the Celtics. Yeah, I can't believe we. Yeah. Thank you for having us on House of Carb. Big fan of the pod. Yeah, that's actually the pod you should probably be on. But you two knuckleheads, all

throughout the Sixers and Celtics series, were texting me incessantly to the point where I was muting you regularly and you were laughing and you were enjoying yourselves and then we kind of started laughing about well you know maybe you should come on at the end of the pod considering like the Celtics were up two oh uh against lebron and then it all went south tonight gang yeah um i'm i'm actually i'm just upset like i don't know why we're all this but you tricked us into this when uh the Celtics were up and and now i don't know i mean if i can do one thing on this, which I think is just, I don't know if your producers are aware of your living situation

when we knew you in Boston. I kind of want to spend the entire time on that. Do they know that you live in a windowless basement apartment in Central Square? Like, do they know about the dumpster that you had to crawl through and the fact that you actually lived, you slept on a futon under a regulation-sized poker table? I feel like this is misplaced anger and you're lashing out because the Celtics lost to LeBron James, the greatest player of his generation. You guys were right there. You got to feel at least a little bit good about Jason Tatum, though, right? Even though the Celtics definitely lost and will not be playing any more basketball for the rest of the year.

And it was crushing and hugely disappointing. And also you lost the Super Bowl to the Eagles. You got to feel a little bit good about Jason Tatum, right? Yeah, I'm not going to let you drag me down, Gons. It was this point game, but it was House Money. they're going to come back next year. You got Gordon Hayward, Kyrie Irving, all the draft picks.

It feels greedy to be too upset about this. Despite your crack about the Eagles, the Patriots still have five Super Bowls, too. So I'm not too bad. Two of our best players were out, Daniel Tice, and Kyrie Irving. So if we had Tice in that game, it totally changes the trajectory of that series,

obviously. Tice is Game 7 material. I mean, everybody knows he rides when game 7 happens. You guys are joking. Tice would have been really helpful in that series. I'm going to stand by that as a serious comment. They could have used his size and rebounding for sure. What they could have used was Terry Rozier either making a shot or conversely not taking 10, three-pointers and missing them all,

or also maybe playing some defense. He was horrendous in that game. Yeah. When three of your best players are a combined eight of 42, that's not usually the greatest. and then you add in Marcus Morris, who is basically the NBA equivalent of the guy who refuses to get off the court

during pick up, pick up games, even if his team loses. And he goes five or 14, and it's like, that's 23%. And then you got Tatum dunking on LeBron all day, all day. We were all witnesses to Tatum, dunking on LeBron, then telling LeBron about it,

and then telling LeBron about it later after the game when they were hugging. so it was horrible. I mean, Marcus Smart was one for 10, which is actually about an average Marcus Smart game. Yeah, it is. But when everyone else is that bad, you're not going to win.

I got to say, for a guy who writes about food, Kevin, that was some good math by you. That's a good number using. Yeah, man. Got a calculator on my iPhone. The thing went through his year is, it's one thing to miss shots, but it's another to miss shots

because you look nervous. And those two shots at the end, the one from the arc, you know, you could tell it. He didn't take the beat and set his feet and shoot it. He was sort of at a bad angle.

And then the other one on the baseline, he was falling away when he didn't need to beat. So you could just sort of feel the moment get the best of them. And that was the part that sort of stunk. Unless you're not from Boston, at which point,

it was amazing. It was great for you. I really, I really enjoy, as everybody at the heat check, I love Jason Tatum, right? I really enjoy watching him play.

but if I can get Jason Tatum having a good performance in a Celtics loss, man, now we're fine in the sweet spot. I don't want to go to Tommy Heintzen here, but there at the end, especially after he dunked on LeBron. Did you see him dunk on LeBron gone? Oh, this is the full Heinzen. You didn't want to go to Heinson, you've gone the full Heinson. But he, I mean, that, man. But you guys also got the call where Marcus Smart was moving and in the air and on top of that threw in some extra acting fly. where he got the call on LeBron.

So that goes both ways. You can't, listen, Boston does not get to cry about the refs ever. You guys have won too many championships. I'm just really thrilled that I'm having you on after a loss and not after Boston goes to the finals without their two best players, Tice included. Let me ask you another question before I let you two go.

What the hell is CUS cries? Who came up with that? With what? C.S. Rise. It looks like it's supposed to be CSRise, but it's supposed to be CSRise, but it actually is cuss cries. Yeah, no, it's terrible.

Whoever came up with that hashtag should be fired immediately. I have no defense of that. I mean, because cries sounds like something that Boston people would do, like where you're swearing and weeping at the same time, it's like the very Boston thing. It is a very Boston thing. The demoralizing thing about it is I saw that hashtag 10,000 times during the playoffs and on their T-Shed.

I read it incorrectly each time. I actually read it as cuss-rise or whatever. It was very frustrating for me personally. Colleen came into the living room the other day during the game and took one look at the shirt and goes, what the hell is Chris Cross? That's perfect. That's exactly right.

It's a great rap group. Chris Cross is a great rap group. The Boston Celtics had a good season. Not good enough. They're on their way out. It's been wonderful guys talking to you. I mean, I really,

really enjoyed this. Let's not do it again anytime soon. This wasn't great. No, I did not feel good about it either. Kevin Alexander, you can read his stuff at Thrillist. He's a James Beater award winner somehow.

Maybe House will have you on House of Carbs and also Jason Schwartz as a reporter at Politico. They're both smarter than they sound despite being from Boston. Guys, I miss you. I miss you too, guys. I do not. Goodbye. All right, that was fun to talk to those two guys. Despite the fact, Isaac, that they

slandered me throughout much of the beginning of the podcast. It was all dirty, dirty lies. Don't worry. I'll cut all of the bad. Cut it all out. I want to say thanks to those two, Kevin and Schwartz, who actually are both very talented reporters. You should check their stuff out online. Thanks to Jonathan Charks. Thanks to Shea Serrano. Thanks to Isaac Lee. Make sure you check out all of the Ringer podcast network. We're going to have KOC Inverno after the Western Conference Finals game seven. We're going to have

maybe a finals preview podcast. You want to stay tuned for that. We'll have group chat, draft class crossover on Thursday night slash Friday morning. Big boss man, Bill Simmons will have all of his podcasts. I will be on the road at the finals with one, Kevin O'Connor, So you can check out our stuff, both on theringer.com and right here on the ringer NBA show feed. Thank you so much for listening. Heat Check will be back next week. See you.