The Ringer NBA Show - LeBron vs. Zion: A Potential Playoff Matchup and Passing of the Torch | The Mismatch

Episode Date: February 25, 2020

We recap some news from around the league, including Vanessa Bryant’s moving tribute to Kobe Bryant, Bradley Beal’s big scoring night, and Ben Simmons’s back injury (2:15). Then, we preview what it will mean when Zion Williamson plays in Los Angeles against LeBron James for the first time in his career (46:39). Finally, we finish by talking about some draft prospects that might fly under the radar (58:03).  Host: Chris Vernon Guest: Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Microsoft Teams. Hey, NBA show fans, we all know meetings. Struggling to pay attention, files seem impossible to find. We're secretly streaming the game on our laptop while nervously tapping our foot below the conference room table. And if you're not in a room, you're not in the no. Luckily, there's a solution for all the meeting-related issues that we constantly complain about. Welcome to the new slam dunk to work together, Microsoft Teams. Using Microsoft Teams is one play that's guaranteed to do.

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And then you've gone to a meeting that probably wasn't even about you. And then you got to sit around for a long time. I'd give anything to have Microsoft teams. Because then I could just pull up my computer and now I'm part of the meeting. And I don't have to be down at the office for the meeting that wasn't about me anyway. Learn more about how to improve your work efficiency at Microsoft.com slash you. teams. That's Microsoft.com slash teams. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And this week, we are still without Kevin O'Connor. He is planning to rejoin us next week. So please keep Kevin and his mom in your thoughts and prayers. And to help me get by this week once again is from the ringer.com.

Jonathan Charks. Charks. Thanks for coming in, brother. Yeah, no problem. Shout out KOC. We miss you, man. We do miss you. Yesterday was a very interesting day throughout the NBA. It started with this beautiful service for Kobe Bryant and Gigi Bryant. And you saw Shaquille O'Neal speak. You saw Michael Jordan speak, Diana Tarazi. I mean, there were all kinds of famous people that spoke and friends and family of his. And of course, his wife, Vanessa Bryant, which was heartbreaking to watch. And the strength that she showed was rather impressive. But a truly unbelievable celebration of life is what they showed. And I even watched. And I even watched. some more of it that I had missed yesterday. They were running it this morning on NBA TV.

And I got to tell you, Charks, it's been a couple of weeks now. And then still, even watching that service and them all talk, it still has not, at least with me, and I don't know how other people feel. It still doesn't feel real. Like, it doesn't, I don't know if it's the shock of it or even with them and that memorial, it just all seems so surreal. And there will come a time where, you know, there's just going to be this understanding that, yes, Kobe Bryant is no longer with us. But it's been a couple of weeks. And even watching that yesterday, it still didn't feel real to me. Yeah, I think it's just, it's the age. You just don't expect, what is he, 41, 42?

42. I mean, you just don't, you know, when someone dies, it was a little older, you kind of expect that you repair yourself. But when a 42-year-old man dies, you just, there's no preparing for something like that. You just don't see it coming. And it doesn't make sense. Yeah. They did an unbelievable job honoring their lives yesterday and celebrating their lives. And so hopefully for those that have been grieving for so long, they get somewhat close to closure. But I know if it, if it doesn't feel real to me who had no personal connection with Kobe, I can only imagine with those that were very close to him and that Lakers organization is still going through to this very day.

There were a ton of basketball games that were going on last night. And so very interesting things happened, not the least of which was Bradley Beale making history because he scores 50 points. and he does it for the second night in a row. He's had 108 points in the last two games. They have lost both of those games. And last night they lost an overtime to the bucks.

He becomes the fourth player in NBA history to score 50 points and lose in consecutive games. You want to take a stab at the other three? We're doing some more trivia, Chris? Yeah, take a stab at it. You had to score 50, two games in a row and lose both of them. And look. I'm going to say wilt.

Wilt for sure, right? He's going to put these so often. He has to be on that list. Yeah, he averaged it. So, of course. The other two, I actually think that there's going to be an audience out there that is able to rattle these off because these guys are the elite level scorers that get beat up the most. Well, Harden, right?

He gets 50 a lot. Yeah. Okay, so that one was easy. And then who's the other one? Is it Kobe? No. Who's the other one that gets beat up? People say it's empty points.

Current player. Is it Devin Booker? I don't think the level score. It is Devin Booker. There you go. Those are the three. Wilt, Harden, and Booker had done it before Bradley Beal does it last night with 108 and two consecutive losses.

Now, immediately, after I tweeted something about this, I had some Wizards fans get sensitive. See, like, see, we knew that it was going to be, oh, meaningless points because it's a loss, right? Or people are going to poke holes in it like they do Devin Booker, like they do Hardin, like they do whatever. And I'll say this, Beal to me is a different deal, as is Hardin, for that matter, because they have, like, really contributed to winning, right? Like it's not like we haven't seen Bradley Beal. Like when he and John Wall were both healthy, they went to the playoffs three of the four years. They were all three years or three of those years, they were in the second round. And they lost to the number one seed in a game six twice and a game seven once.

And like in that game six and game seven, Brad Beale was like having like 38 point games. So I mean, this guy has played, you know, one step. step, two steps away from playing in Eastern Conference finals, for goodness sake. It's not like Brad Beale hasn't proven his worth as a guy that gets extremely meaningful points, right? But if you're losing 60 games, if you're losing, you know, 70 games a year, of course people are going to poke holes in your stats because, look, somebody's got to score. That being said, Brad Beal is not one of those guys that I look at. And I say, oh, yeah, well, he scores 50, but they lose. So who cares. Like, Brad Biel, he has nothing around him. I thought that team was going to be the worst

team in the league by far when I looked at their roster to start this season. And they got 20 wins and Charks. This is what's crazy. They've lost these three games in a row, two games that they squandered where he had 50-point efforts. I mean, Brooklyn is in a bad way right now. And they just lost again last night. And if you would have added, if they win these last two games, And all of a sudden they're 22 and 34 instead of 20 and 36. They're certainly, you know, within striking distance and with a wounded Nets team, if you went on a run, implausibly, that team would have a, you know, outside, very outside, but an outside chance at the playoffs, for God's sake. I do remember, so they came to Dallas opening night and it was like, this team is horrible.

We were watching the game. There's like undrafted free agents playing big minnics. Isaac Bongo starting. We were just like, wow. And I think if you look at this team since like the trade deadline, even like adding a guy like Shabazz Napier makes a real difference in Washington, considering he's replacing like Isaiah Thomas. Right.

So just like that level alone really makes them a better team. And I mean, you're right. It's possible with way Biel's playing and when nets are playing, it's possible. They're still in this race. Well, and aren't they a perfect example of just playing the odds, right? there's going to be the nights where, you know, this whole, and some people hate it, but the new wave of basketball, like, you know what they're going to do. They're going to play crazy fast.

And if they can bang a lot of threes on you, then they're going to win their share of games. And it's just a, you know, it's almost like they're, you don't know what kind of performance you're going to get. They could get run out of the building some nights. And then some nights, they're going to have a chance to win just because they're racing up and down the floor. They're taking a ton of shots and they're taking a lot of threes. And so the nights that they make them, I mean, the team having 20 wins is unbelievable to me. And it speaks to the way they have played this. Also, Brad Beale's averaging 30 points a game.

Bertans shoots a high percentage. Burtons, I mean, he takes eight threes a game and he shoots 42% taking them. If I just said to you, hey, Charks, We're going to line them up on a wall, and I'm going to take Beal. I get the first pick. You get the second pick. You take Bertons. Their third leading scorer is Rory Hachamura. Is that the guy you would take third off of their team?

There's not a ton of options. Thomas Bryant? I mean, seriously, who is the third pick off of the Wizards? Well, I'm going to look at this. Honest, I can look at the roster. Yeah, like, you can see why, you know, Bill was upset at the All-Star break. Like, you get why everyone was, like, making fun of him, but he's like, man, I'm balling right now. Y'all are just hating.

Like, you get it. Okay, this guy is one like the best players in the league and he's not an the All-Star game. Well, you know, his agent sent out that big letter, the Bartolstein's firm, saying that, you know, like the last guy to average this most and not make the All-Star game was World Be Free in 1978 or whatever. So, I mean, it was rather historic that Brad Beal didn't make the All-Star team this year.

And I get the whole rewarding winning, but like, look this friggin roster. This, I mean, they have four wins if he's not on that team. Yeah, and then they made a good point.

I think the agent was like, well, now people get mad for guys stacking teams, but when you don't give a guy credit for being on a bad team and playing well, what else is he going to do?

Right. That does make sense. All right. So Brad Beale, unbelievable efforts, both in losses, and it was history last night. Now we need to talk about

some teams that are, I want to get your worry meter on a few. The first one is Utah. So they got run out at home last night by Phoenix. Now, to my point earlier about just shooting a bunch of threes and like there's going to be such variance every night. It was a great variant night for Phoenix because they were 12 for 20 from three. They shot 60% from three.

They also sat 56% as a team from the field. But it is not like Utah, especially who has been a very good second half team many years. It's not like them to get beat by 20 on their home floor. So where is the worry meter on Utah for you? Very, very high. So I watched second half of that game. And what happened was the Suns blew it out when they played Dario Sarge at the 5. And that's the plan against Utah.

If you can play a stretch 5, you drag Gobert out. of the paint. And then it's just an open run at the rim. Because I was looking at the Utah Jazz roster.

So like, yeah, they play great defense. How many guys in that roster have plus size and speed for their position

besides Gobert? It's basically none of them, right? You have Connolly a little older, Bogdanovich, just smaller four, Ingalls,

little older. Mitchell at the two is six foot one. But off the bench, you bring Jordan Clarkson, Tony Bradley, George Niang. No,

and your best, and your best chance at Gar's, a wing, you know, outside of. Ingalls certainly proved his worth as a defender against Paul George a couple of years ago, but he's, he has not been the same Joe Engels as he was two years ago. Royce O'Neill? Yeah, O'Neill's our best defender.

Yeah. And he's out of the starting lineup now. Yeah, because they have Conley back. Like, to me, I look at Utah, and this is a team built around a center who protects the rim. But then, like, if you go small against Utah, like, we'll talk about, Embed in a second, but if you go small against Colbert, what's the big deal, right?

What's he going to do to you? Well, I mean, he has to punish you and go for like 27 and 13, right? But he's not, that's not really his game, right? Like, hitting you on the block? Like, he's a role man. He catches lobs mainly. He doesn't like post up three times to a hook shot very often. Well, and to your point

about being able to go small against him, I mean, it very well may be that there is a collision course once again for the jazz to play the Rockets in the first round. And That's the other thing to me, yeah. That matchup is terrible for them. Right?

And if that is so, I mean, and that's two teams going in different directions. Houston's gotten on a roll. They've won four in a row. They've won eight of their last 10. Meanwhile, you've got Utah who's lost three in a row and is four and six in their last 10 games. And I just think anybody that's watching the Conley thing has not worked. It just hasn't. And there's not that many games left in the season to figure this out.

You and I opined last week that, you know, as hard as it would be, especially with the guy that's in his whatever, 14th year in the league, you know, maybe, you know, having another role player in that starting lineup and putting Royce O'Neill back in there and bringing Conley off the bench, that might be the most difficult decision to make, but maybe what is best for the team. I mean, somebody has to not need the ball because what it looks like now is all those guys are best with the ball in their hands. Obviously, you can throw Ingalls in the corner and you can get a bucket from him. You know, if you just swing it over and he can hit a spot up three for you. But when you're talking about Donovan Mitchell and you're talking about Joe Ingalls and you're talking about Bogdanovich,

there's a lot of my turn stuff that goes on. And yet when Conley was out of the lineup and you know nobody loves Conley more than me. But when he was out of the lineup, they looked like last year's Utah team, except they added Bogdanese. And Ingls looked back like himself, and Donovan Mitchell, you know, really exploded. And they started to look like last year's jazz, the jazz team that we thought was going to be a very, very, a team that you don't want to see when it comes playoff time. And I know that last year, everybody just stacked up on Donovan and made it hard on him. And now it looked like you had a little more scoring there. You just, you've got to have guys that just keep the ball moving, guys that, guys that.

don't need the ball and are role players. And none of those guys outside of Gobert are role players that are in that starting lineup. Yeah, I mean, there's too many cooks in the kitchen. And then, like, I'm looking at this Houston series. I think if you're Utah realistically, you're going to have to outscore the rockets because you're not going to stop them. If they can spread you out, attack your smaller guards with Hardin and Westbrook,

those guys are going to score. So then it becomes, okay, if you're getting like 60 from Hardin and Westbrook, Westbrook. Maybe Mitchell gives you 30, but can you count on Ingalls or Conley to go bucket for bucket with Westbrook or Hardin? It's going to be tough. Yeah. Well, and I know and I know this. And the Conley thing, look, look, they didn't look right at the beginning of the season. You're like, all right, they're just going to figure this out. He had some really good games right before the All Star break. But that time in December, and I know people are going to say, well, their schedule lightened up. If you watched them, they just looked better. They looked a lot more like last year's team. And yeah, it's just like Chris, like it's the pieces. Like with Mitchell especially, Mitchell's six foot one and he's a streaky shooter and he likes to attack the basket. Like he needs a ball in his hands going downhill. If he's playing off the ball, he's just less valuable and he's your best player. Therefore, he has to have the ball. Therefore, everybody else

has to play off him. And then with Conley, okay, if Mitchell has the ball, you have a six one two guard, like either way it's tough. Well, and there's some guys that just like they are going to be what they're going to be if they've got the ball. And for 13 years, Mike Connolly had the ball in his hands. Right? And look, I mean, look, I just talked about it last week, Charks. How many people last year were saying, oh, Chris Paul ain't Chris Paul anymore? Chris Paul lost a step.

And Chris Paul's, you know, got the worst contract in the league and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Look at Chris Paul now. Like, the ball's backing it. Like, you know, he's, that's what he is. He's a pure point guard who, when the ball is in his hands, can really be a fantastic player. I mean, and he's not as good

of a player off the ball and having to go up against bigger, stronger guys that might be guarding him on occasion and playing that kind of ISO ball. And I think Conley's the same way. I think Connolly's the same way, right? He's a guy

that he's going to be at his best if the ball's in his hands. You talk about Chris Paul, my thought was maybe he wanted out of Houston for that very reason, you know, for much everybody said, oh, Hardin wants Paul out, I could see Paul being like, this is no fun for me. I'm Chris Paul. I'm an elite Hall of Fame point guard. I don't want to spend the rest of my career spotting up three point line watching James Harden dribble. Like, this is kind of sucks.

And so I wonder for Connolly, like, what's his thought process this summer? Everyone, I mean, yeah, it's a big, what's $30 million? Like, he's already made a trillion dollars. I don't do he wants, does he want to come back and play off Mitch the rest of his career? I don't know. I don't know. I think he wants to make $30 million. You think so? Yep. I'll tell you this, speaking of Chris Paul, watching them since we last spoke, watching them over the weekend, charts, I would not want to see that team in the playoffs. Because you get so many of these games that are nip-tuck games and they showed the stats. I mean, his clutch performance is out of control. And it's not just offensive, it's defensive too.

he was like first or second in steals in the last five minutes of close games. It's just like, okay, you've got your guy, I've got my guy, and my guy being Chris Paul, it can get me over the hump. And they can play big and they can play small. And Gilges Alexander, you know, I don't get this. I tell you that, Charles, I don't get to see them enough. He just always looks so in control. He is a dynamite player.

I mean, he's got the big size. and he's got great vision. He is, boy, and I heard Bill and Rosillo talking about this to look back at that whole Paul George thing. And maybe the Paul George thing will add up to a championship. But to give up a million first round picks, Galinari, and that kid, because I don't know what the ceiling on him is, but he's already awesome. Yeah, like when I look at young players,

one of the first things I look at is, okay, what are their weaknesses? And Gillis Alexander is one of the only young players in the league where he can do everything. He can score. He can run point. He can stretch the floor. He can guard two or three positions. And he can rebound. And that gives you so much versatility.

Here's the lineup number for you. So OKC closes games. Usually it's Paul Schroeder, Gillis Alexander, Gallinari Adams. That's three point guard, stretch four, and then a five. Their net rating in 160 minutes, just take a guess. What do you think it is? Okay, give me the lineup. Give me the lineup again.

Paul, how do you say his name? Is it Schroeder or Schroeder? I always miss us up. Schrooter. Okay. Paul Schrooter SGA, Gallo, Adams. Oh, well, I'm going to imagine it's high because you're saying high, but high is like, if you're plus 10, that's obviously outstanding.

I'll say, yeah, I'll just say an even number. I'll say like around plus 10. Plus 30. No. I'm not joking. They're net rating? Plus 30. It's like one of the best lineups in the entire league by far.

How many minutes does that play it together? 10060. And then it doesn't even matter. If you slide in Nerlin's Noel for Adams are like plus 25. Basically those three point guards together, Paul Schroeder SGA is like

one of the best three-man lineups in the entire NBA. And they close with that a lot. It's, I mean, it is. They close every single time they close with it, basically. That's right. It's a nightmare. mayor to match up with. It just is. I've seen it screw up many teams because you don't know, you can't play who you would usually play in your crunch time lineup. You know, like they actually,

unless you can punish them for doing it, which teams haven't consistently been able to find a way to punish them for doing that because obviously Paul and SGA can can stand up and guard whoever you want them to. They're willing to take on the task. And so unless you could punish them on the defensive end for for doing that and being small, they, they dictate who you play and they usually get you into a situation where the lineup you're putting out there isn't nearly as devastating as theirs. Yeah. And that's for like with SGA, him being a six foot six point guard is so just major. Yeah. Because that lets you play a, that lets you play multiple point guards without giving up size. And that is such an advantage in any situation. So we touched on those two teams.

I mean, Oklahoma City's been on a nice little run here. They won three in a row. By virtue of Utah losing three in a row, Oklahoma City is only one game behind them. I mean, they could jump them. If I was Utah, I would get out of that Houston series at any cost. Whatever it takes out of that matchup, I think is good for them. Would you rather play?

Well, I guess it's the Clippers now. I think it'll probably, when all of a sudden done, end up being the Nuggets. So I think you're right. We'll get some playoff jockeying there at the end. And if you're Houston, I tell you that you don't, want to see Oklahoma City. That would be a crazy matchup. That's that would be crazy.

That's Paul's revenge. Westbrook back in O KC for a playoff series. Oh my God. Oh my God. That would just be. Yeah, I think if you're Utah, you definitely want Denver. Because if you're Utah, that matchup is totally different. Because Denver's not going to go small against you.

Their best player is Yokic. And then Goberra is one of the only guys in the league who can actually like guard Yokch. She's so freaking big. Because Gober can actually contest his shot. That to me, if I'm Utah, I want Denver way more than you. Not even close.

And usually these are kind of like the dog days of the NBA, but the truth is for so many of these teams, because of the parody in the leagues and so few games separating them all the way from two until you get down to seven. I mean, that's only four and a half games separating them. You are,

like we just noted with the Jazz and the Thunder, you're a week away from being in a whole different world seating-wise. And so that's why all of these games end up mattering greatly because the seed that you get is going to matter greatly. Likewise, we have talked about that on the eastern side. And last night, Joelle Embed has a career high, 49 points. They are right now, Philadelphia, sitting at the five seed and a half a game back from Miami,

who for the second time in a row, we have talked about them losing a regrettable game, a game that they'll wish they could have back. First, they had the 50-point game by Trey Young dropped on them in a game that at the end, they could look back and say, man, we should have won that one. Last night will be another one. They were at a 22-point lead on Cleveland and end up losing that game. But we have talked about how much four-and-five and home-court advantage in four-and-five can matter because we know Philadelphia's record at home has been devastating,

whereas on the road they have been a radically different team. In fact, they've been a bad team. They're 9 and 20 on the road. So it matters greatly. It matters greatly what seed they get. Well, likewise, look, Miami's a losing team on the road. They're 13 and 18, which is a little bit better, but they're 23 and 3 at home.

I mean, you've got a lot of these teams that have been awesome at home and, you know, average to downright dreadful on the road. And you want to talk about matchups. If you're Miami and it's, Philadelphia, you're going to play Bam on Embed. Like, Mbid is so much bigger than Bam.

It's crazy. That's a tough matchup for the heat. And also sets up an unbelievable Jimmy Butler versus the Sixers, if that is how that plays out. And, you know, there's Ben Simmons, probably. Well, that's what we need to get to.

Is it? Because there was news last night, and I never like news that doesn't have a timeline attached to it. And from all the reports I saw, there was no timeline attached to this. It was Ben Simmons is going to be out with a back injury. And it was kind of left open-ended as I read it.

Isn't that how you read it? I mean, there was no... You know, I always say with back eyes on taller players, Simmons is 6'10. Like, he's basically a center size in his back. That's really troubling. Yes. And so he did not play in their game last night. And then they just said they're doing further evaluation and he's going to miss time.

And they just left it undetermined. And so how long is it to leave back? Here's what Tim Bontemp's story said. As the Sixers and Ben Simmons management teamwork with doctors to evaluate the course of action for the All-Star Guards injured back, Simmons is expected to be sidelined for an undetermined period of time, said Agent Wurgenowski. The anticipated length of time missed and next steps in remedying his back injury could be decided as soon as Tuesday. So maybe we will get news later today. But he played less than five minutes and they're lost to the bucks on Saturday night.

And then he left. And then he was described as emotional by sources after leaving the X-ray room. I mean, yeah, there's just, there's no way to know really, right, until something comes out. He also missed Thursday's overtime win versus the Brooklyn Nets with lower back tightness. Oh, so he was already hurt. He comes back and he gets hurt again. Yeah. And the same injury, too, with the lower back.

Yes. And according to this one, said that he was emotional after leaving the, uh, the x-ray room. So, I mean, I don't know. typically that doesn't mean you just got good news. I do think Philly is well equipped, though. Like, they're, I mean, they survived out Embedde by having Simmons. And I don't think they'll fall too far without him. I think Embed should be able to step up.

When Embedid said that he was the best player in the NBA, we covered that in our last show. I mean, this is proving time. And at least on that level, I know they got stomp by the bucks in that matchup we had talked about happening over the weekend. But this is the time for Joel Mbd because he's going to have to carry them.

Well, there was one sequence in that game last night that was funny. I was watching it. So Mbid gets the ball on the post and he's playing with like four guards and the ball goes from like one, two, three, four and all four of them could shoot threes and the defense actually rotated to all four players

and the ball got back to him. And I was like, this is probably the first time that's happened like ever in his life in Philadelphia. Well, this is, and I tell you this, Charx, this is going to be the deal. I mean, you come out of the All-Star break, and he had

39 and 16 in that Brooklyn game that we talked about on Friday. He had 17 and 11, and they just got walloped in their Milwaukee game, and he was not good. But then he comes back last night, and he's got 49 and 14. I mean, the truth is

are we going to now, like now you see we saw earlier in the year. Remember when Ambide was out? And it was like, oh my God, look at Ben Simmons. This guy's putting up like 35 point triple doubles. I mean, he was killing it. And it's like, geez, he's better without him.

Like, you see both of these guys and they both end up being able to do more without the other one. And so now will be the test. Ben Simmons is out of the pitcher. Nobody can talk about how it's not a great fit. Nobody can talk about how they get in each other's way. None of that crap. And if we see MB'd like routinely going for 35 and 15, you know, it's going to go a long way towards that discussion being ramped up even worse than it's always been ramped up. Do you think he'll make some comment about floor spacing?

I feel like MB would definitely do that. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, he has, look, he's a, he's a smart guy, he's a calculated guy. He knows exactly what would be the case. if he does. But all I know is these, he's played three games since the All-Star break,

and he's gone for 39 and 16 and 49 and 14 and two of them. Now, I know they're against Brooklyn and Atlanta, but look, he's got now if, if the time that Simmons is out is undetermined, we could be amping up for the full Joel Embed okay, you said you're the best player in the league. Like every night you got to go out. And he's this weekend, he's got both LA teams,

national television. Perfect, right? Perfect. Clippers on Sunday, Lakers on Tuesday. That's a little showcase games. So clearly the Simmons injury, though, is we both, while it is not the ideal match,

like they have to have him back. They have to. Now, they caught a little bit of a break in terms of their five right now, and, you know, I guess they could drop down, but that's probably their floor because Indiana has been in a bad way, Charks. I really liked this team midseason. They've only won three of their last 10 games, and now just a critical injury for Jeremy Lamb, thoughts with him. Oh, yeah, brutal. I mean, he just busted everything. Torn ACL and a lateral meniscus also suffered a fracture.

I mean, just devastating. Now, for him, I guess on the bright side, he did sign a contract right before this past year. But that is going to be very, very difficult to come back from. And obviously, that is, he's been good for them this year. He's been good for them. And they have, they've had a good season. So far, and there were times where they really looked like, oh, man, if they get Oladipo back into the mix, they could be trouble for somebody, but they have, they've been in a bad way.

They had that one-off win, you know, against Milwaukee. And then they turn around and beat the Knicks. But, I mean, they just, you know, that Sunday game against Toronto, they could beat by friggin 50 points. It was ridiculous. Yeah, that was the game, Lamb got hurt, I think. Yeah, I feel so bad for him. I've always liked Jeremy Lamb.

I mean, he had a really tough draw to his career. So he was one of the main piece in the Hardin trade. So in OKC, he never had a chance. Everyone's like, you're not James Hardin, which is totally unfair for any young player to be compared to. Then he goes to Charlotte. He kind of gets himself together, becomes a really good, well-rounded two guard.

But they're a terrible team, so he's no one only talks about him. Now he's finally on a good team, having one of the best careers of his career. He's 27, prime of his career, and his whole knee is a shot. So now he's at least a year and a half. half probably. So then he'll be like 2930 and now he's on the downside of his career. So he just

lost the best year of his career. That's just horrible, man. Yeah, horrible. And I feel, I feel terrible for him. And obviously it's a tough, tough blow because he is a rotation player for sure for Indiana. And sometimes, and we'll see how they how they do without him. But sometimes those are, those are the ones that aren't necessarily paid great attention to. And around the league, people might be like, oh, well, they lost Jeremy Lamb. They should still be able to be just fine, right? But sometimes those injuries can really be the ones that are hard to overcome. I remember a couple of years ago, right, when Andre Roberson went out and, you know, their defense took a big dip in Oklahoma City without him. And he never came back. Which, by the way, he hasn't

played. It's been two and a half years. That's right. No, he never came back. He, uh, but the other one is, the other one is the one in your town, Dallas. Right? Nobody thinks about Dwight Powell, right? And like they, and I know they just lost another one in Jalen Bruttson, but like the Dwight Powell injury hurt. And that's all I'm saying, right? Like the Jeremy Lamb thing, it's not a huge star,

so it's not going to make a ton of waves. And there's never a boatload of conversation about Indiana anyway. But those are the kind of injuries that can end up being crucial. Yeah, it's all about the roles on the team. And then you look at Lamb, he's a 6-6-6 wing who can defend and shoot. And everyone needs players like that. And not only he can do that, he can also create his own shot. So that kind of player, he just fits into a lot of lineups.

And when you start trying to replace him, it's like, okay, now really going to play much smaller guards. We're going to play guys who can't. Like, you're going to play Aaron Holiday. He was about half foot shorter. You're going to play Justin Holiday. You can't really create his own shot. Or you're going to play Doug McDermott who can't defend.

And that kind of weakness just kills a team, especially Indiana, with old people not playing that well. They're a team that was like the sum of its parts, right? All the guys are fitting together and kind of overplaying their talent. But now one of their main little parts is out. And they don't have anyone to replace them. Charks, throughout the season, there has consistently been nothing positive ever you read about the Clippers. It's the damnedest thing because they are right now, they have the third best record in the Western Conference.

And yet everything about them has been like negative news this year. It's very strange, right? It's always about load management or it's about it's these disturbing quotes from the locker room or from Doc Rivers or it's about chemistry or it's whatever else. And yet here they are at 38 and 19 one game back from being the two seed in the Western Conference. I mean, while last night. They got your guys last night pretty bad. And how about this one? It's their 29th lineup they ran out there.

It's the most in the NBA. And they're, like, that is not usually indicative of a team that's 38 to 19. Right. And I know that they had had a losing streak and they got beat up by the Kings over the weekend. And so they have given reason for people to watch them and get paused. But obviously, with the Grizzlies playing them last night, I settled in to watch it. They started off that game 35 to 9. And look, did you still watch the rest after that or just go to bed?

I made it to the fourth. you're a professional man I'm impressed I made it to the late night for you I made it to the fourth well because there were some new guys that were going to get to play

Jordan Bell was going to get his first minutes and maybe some other guys were going to get to play but I mean the Grizzlies who are having to start Brandon Clark who you love and I was super excited to see how he would perform in this spot

after three minutes he goes out with a hip injury so they lost Jaron Jackson Jr. They start Brandon Clark and Brandon Clark gives him three minutes and then he's out for the game and they started off 35 to 9 to start that game,

which leads the league, as we said. They've added Marcus Morris. They've added Reggie Jackson. And they got 25 games left, but I'm here to tell you, Charts. When push comes to shove and it gets playing time, I honestly just roll my eyes at all of the, you know, something's wrong with the clippers.

The clippers don't have something's off. Something's wrong with them. But, I mean, I really do. Because you've watched them when it's got, gotten like the big, big games like the Laker games this year. And you've seen when both of these guys are healthy, Kauai and George, and now they've added this other stuff. When they are fully stocked and fully healthy, which they have not been all year, they are devastating. Chris, like, look at this bench, the second unit. It's Reggie Jackson, Lou Williams, Landry

Shammett, Jamit, Michael Green, Montrez-Harrell. That's their second unit. I know. They're devastating. But I was thinking about, I was thinking about that. So one thing someone on the Clippers told me the other day, they said, the Clippers were the team everybody wants to play for if you're a basketball player in L.A. Like, we're the team for the guys who want a hoop and I worry about all the nonsense. And I'm looking at Reggie Jackson. Why is he not on the Lakers? The Lakers could use Reddy Jackson so badly, right?

Like a point-garet-to-cray-his-one shot run the offense on LeBron's out of the game. He could have a huge role in the Lakers, but he chooses to go to the Clippers, play with Lou Williams, all these guys who need the ball in there. hands. He's like their sixth guard. I mean, look, they're injured all the time and they got guys sitting out for rest and whatever else, but I don't know, like they got Beverly and George back in their lineup last night. They add Marcus Morris, who's obviously a tough dude, um, into their mix and can be helpful. I just, I don't know, man. Like for all the, man, I know, for all the next. It's all this negative news and all this downplaying them. But my God,

when you see them in their version healthy. I mean, you look at the, because they, they'll throw the, like they'll throw Kauai Leonard on John Morant and then they'll put, you know, Pat Bev on your two guard.

Or you remember like, you know, I mean, he was guarding LeBron in that game on Christmas, for God's sake, on the last possession. I mean, when you've got Beverly George Kauai

out there as a mix and they're rotating and they're switching, I mean, God. And you have Montrez at the five. I mean, Morris, so you have four, six, seven wings who can all guard. Then three of them can all really shoot.

Kauai and George can pass. Morris can create his own shot. Like that line up and you compare them with the Lakers. First off, like, you go back to those Lakers Clippers games. What's up to me was, oh, Kauai is better than LeBron now. That's why my first big realization watching that. It's like, it's not even close. Kauai can guard LeBron.

LeBron can't guard Kauai anymore. So if that's the first thing, you've got the edge up top, any of the edge in depth, it's going to be tough for the Lakers, I think. Well, but it is the Davis thing. That's the question, right?

He has to be awesome. Well, no, and he has to be awesome, but he is, like, all the time. He's awesome. And they run that LeBron Davis pick and roll. Like, you don't have, you're never going to be greatly equipped to deal with him, you know?

And the other thing is, Paul George has got to show up big in playoffs. Like, that has to happen because that has not been commonplace over the course of this career. With the Lakers, what I've been thinking about them, I feel like at some point in the playoffs, it has to become AD's team. Like, right now, I feel like it's still LeBron's team. LeBron's still the main guy with the ball in his hands, a primary playmaker, the engine of the offense. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know, man. Like, throughout the year watching them, I mean, Davis is the, he's the bigger problem on a, a regular basis, I mean, they take about the same amount of field goals. LeBron's at 19, Davis is at 18. But, I mean, it's all those two. And you know you get to the last five minutes of the game. I mean, think back to that Celtics game, we watched over the weekend. Do you remember almost anything anybody else did, you know, in big spots?

Then, like, with the Celtics, you remember Jalen Brown hitting a shot. You remember Gordon Hayward missing the layup. You remember they couldn't get the ball to Tatum. With the Lakers, like almost everything. you remember is Davis James related? I mean, that's what they do. They go to that. It's their bread and butter, and they're devastating.

To me, the number to watch is Davis's assists. So he's actually dropped from last year. He was at 3.9 in career highs at 3.3. To me, like, the best version of the Lakers is if Davis is scoring, he's getting doubled, and he's kicking out to somebody else. That, to me, is like, that's the attitude to win a championship. Is I need Davis creating shots for other people and not LeBron doing it. Does that make sense?

Yep. I think that's what I'm watching for because what's going to happen in the playoffs in that LeBron Davis pick and roll, Clippers are going to switch that. So it'll be either Quay or Paul George on Anthony Davis because they'll put Montreys on the switch or Morris even.

It's like, can Davis score on those guys so effectively that the Clippers send doubles? And when they send doubles, can he find the open shooter quickly enough? That to me is the Lakers' best chance to win. Well, and the key for the Clippers, obviously, with 25 games left, is just to end up being a two or three seed.

That's it. Right? Because you can't be in that four seed and have to play the Lakers in the semis. But if they are, it is hard to imagine that it's not an all L.A. Western Conference finals. I'll say this. You never know who's going to get injured, right? Like, look, if God forbid something happened to LeBron, something happened to Kauai, something happened to Anthony Davis.

it's a totally different trajectory for these team seasons. And so yes, they would be able to get picked off. But all healthy, as long as they are two or three, I think it stands to reason those two would be on a collision course because none of the others, whereas in the Eastern Conference, you could see somebody that is four or five, especially if it's Miami or Philly. If I told you those teams, you know,

were in a seven-game series or knocked off Milwaukee and or obviously if they're or Toronto if one of those teams knocked them off and ended up in an East finals

it wouldn't be shocking it's hard to imagine isn't it I mean like any of these four and fives Houston Utah Dallas the things that we talked about right or Oklahoma City like Oklahoma City might be the one

I'm not kidding that I would want to see the least. I'm serious. In like a semis round. Like that may be the team. That may be the team I want to see the least. I don't want to play against them if I don't have to. I'd rather play the other teams. Yeah, it's funny about matchups. Like as a Mavs fan,

like if they played the Clippers, forget about it. I remember there was a game early the season when the Mavs were really rolling. It was like National TV. And the Clippers put Kauai on Luca. And they put Paul George on Luca. And it was like, oh my gosh. It was just an absolute beatdown. It was like, okay, there are levels to this NBA game where the mouths are playing well,

but there's a whole different level out there. All right, Charks, we'll get right back to it. First, I want to remind everybody, today's episode brought to you by Postmates. When you need red wine at 4 p.m., sushi at 9 p.m., a breakfast burrito at 8 a.m., and ibuprofen at 10 a.m. Postmate it. Postmates is your personal food delivery, grocery delivery, whatever kind of delivery. service all year round. Anything you're craving, Postmates can deliver. They're the largest on-demand network in the United States and offer delivery from all the restaurants, grocery, and convenience

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That's code Ringer NBA for $100 of free delivery credit for your first seven days when you download the Postmates app. Anything you need, anytime you need it. PostMated. Download the Postmates app and save with code Ringer NBA. All right. I do want to mention one young player while all the talk, oh, well, speaking of the Lakers, we do need to mention monster game going on tonight on TNT. And we were going to get to see Zion and LeBron on the same court as New Orleans. You know, look, they need every win like blood the rest of the way.

That could be the 1-8 series, LeBron, Lakers, Pelicans. we it's looking right now. It absolutely could. And they need, but, New Orleans needs every single game. Like they need to, they need to be winning some games that they're not even favored to win like tonight.

Because they've got ground to make up. Like, and I talked about this throughout the year. It's just, it's hard to make up ground. Sometimes it takes, unless you have a week where you win every game and the other team that you're trying to track down,

you know, loses every game. it, you know, and that's usually not the way it goes with teams going on win streaks and losing streak simultaneously. It takes two, three weeks sometimes to make up ground, even three, four games. And right now the Pelicans are three games back from the Grizzlies for that eight seed, and they are a half game back from Portland.

But you know what helps, though, when the two teams above you, two of their best players are hurt. Makes it a lot easier. Oh, that is for certain. because the Grizzlies without Jaron Jackson Jr., the Portland Trailblazers without Damian Lillard.

They got the Lakers twice the next week. I didn't realize that. They play Lakers on Tuesday and again on Sunday. That's going to be really fun. I cannot wait. I can't wait to see, because look,

I've talked about this throughout the year. The Zion thing is just outrageous. It's seriously, you watch it, and it's like some Marvel superhero has been dropped on the court amongst nine guys. Like he just rips the ball away.

Like big man. It's like playing against your kid or something. You know what? I watched a bunch of his games for Arachlid that the day. Really, the only game all year he had trouble was Milwaukee when he went up against Janus. That was the one guy who was able to guard Zion. Hey, but there's that clip you saw. If you go watch, you can see that clip.

Yonis grabbed the ball. You ripped that shit from Yonis like it was nothing. He just yanked it from over his head like it was like he was dealing with a child. And so I can't wait. to see him and LeBron. Oh. I wonder it'll be him in Davis, right? I would think Davis

have to guard him more than LeBron. Yeah, but I want to see the visual of him next to LeBron. Because LeBron... It isn't often as a guy's bigger than LeBron and stronger. No, I think, well, look, I've told people this.

Like, LeBron is one of those guys that you need to see in person to fully appreciate. He is just... He is huge, a huge human. His shoulders are so broad. He's just, you can't believe he does the stuff that he does at his size. And now Zion is like a friggin super LeBron.

Zion's coming to Dallas in like two weeks. I'm like, I'm cleared my schedule. I don't care what I got going on. I'm going to that one. No. And now I can't, I just, I want to see the visual of him side by side with LeBron. Because they are both, I have, you know, we've never seen it. And they are both just such enormous humans.

but Zion's like unlike anything we've ever seen. And I mean, God, if he ripped the ball away from LeBron or something like he did from Yannis, I'd lose my mind. He is, I mean, he's averaged at 24 points in love. It's like 59% from the field. He's immediately awesome. Yeah, and then I'm looking at the numbers. So in that Milwaukee game, he was 5 for 19. Every other game he's played against, it's like 80% shooting basically.

So unless you have one of those like superhuman. And that's what I want to see from Anthony Davis. I want to see if Davis can shut down a guy like Zion. Because that's what I think you need from the Lakers, too, is you want Davis to be at that level, to be at that Janus level. Because like, was most of the guys Zion plays, it just, like, Zion only has one move right now. It's always to his left hand. It's like two dribbles, just dunks on you. And Janus is the only guy I've watched all season who's like, no, you're not just going to dunk on me.

You have to actually have counter moves. You actually have to finesse to your game because I'm so big and strong and you can't just dunk on me. I want to see if Davis at that level where he can push you out Zion back. Can't wait to watch that game. And I do want to mention one other rookie before we get out of here today because it was an explosion for Kevin Porter Jr.

For Cleveland, who you'd imagine it would get a lot of minutes now that B-Line gone, J.B. Bickerstaff took over. You know, new coaches always end up playing different guys more. And so maybe this is a sign that Porter's going to get something.

He is such a fascinating proposition. He is one of the first guys. that I ever mentioned to KOC out of that draft class because he was listed as one of the guys in the draft class. I went and I looked him up and when I watched him on YouTube in the high school stuff, I came back on the air and I'm like, I'm watching all these guys. And like this guy, he does stuff that the others don't. Like he is some kind of a freak athlete. He's got some moves. He's smoothed with the left hand. And then he had just such a troubled season.

He ended up getting suspended from USC. I think multiple times. He didn't even start most of the season. Yeah. And he didn't get to play it out at all. And then it was virtually unanimous, I will tell you, Charks. When I called around about the draft that people were really worried about, you know, the professionalism.

How is he going to be when you put him into a situation? you know, because there were off the court things that were real. People really questioned the maturity level and everything else. But I kept going back to, man, if the kid does mature and he does figure it out just skill-wise and athleticism-wise, this guy has a real chance to be special. And he does way more spectacular things in my estimation than a lot of people that are going to to be drafted ahead of him. And I've not heard of any problems with Kevin throughout his rookie year so far. And last night, like, anybody can go back and watch those highlights and you see it.

I mean, it's stepbacks. It's big threes and crucial moments. It's driving to the basket, quick first step. I mean, if that kid figures it out, he is one that could easily be looked back upon as a guy that was drafted entirely too low. Yeah, I mean, if you look at a guy who's a 6'5, 210-pound two-guard who can dribble and shoot threes off the dribble. And he lasted until 30. Like, they know something else is going on.

And like looking at that game, looking at the calves, I'm kind of wandering now, at some point, do you have to make him your starting two guard? Because they've been starting garland and sex in all season that it hasn't worked. It's two really small, six-foot one-point guards. to me at some point, a guy with Porter's tools, he's got to be a starter, right? Well, I just never, I never understood the taking Garland after Sexton thing anyway. But I'm a big Sexton fan.

You know? See, I think they said Sexton's not a point guard. You're getting another one. That was my thought when I did that. Yeah, but I mean, what is a point guard now? Is Damian Lillard a point guard? Someone who passes more than like, gets more than like two assists a game. I know he's got three assists, by the way.

Three. he also I mean, it's tough. He also, you know, it's also in his second year on a rat team. He's averaging 20 points a game. And he shot 46% from the field and 37% from three. Yeah, he's a two guard. I know, but the, fine.

But the Collins-Sexing getting beat up this year. Then make him a column, right? That's fine. But are you expecting Garland is going to be the Lillard type? Because Garland has been miserable this year. And I know he didn't get to play last year in college. But of those two players, one of them has been much better than the other one. It's just one of those things.

Like, if Sexton's not going to be a point guard and he's going to be your two, and then you have a two, six foot five, two ten, as opposed to like six one, one ninety, the bigger two is going to have the advantage. That's what it comes down to is like finding a role form. I'm with it. I'm just saying, if you thought you were going to get Garland and Sexton and that could be your Lillard, McCollum, whatever. Garland doesn't pass the ball either, Charx.

That's the problem with drafting two small guards don't pass. OKC, I think OKC passing on SGA for Sexton, that could be like one of, I mean, not Cleveland passing on SGA. That could be one of like the big swing points in this draft looking back on it. That was a huge miss. All right. Well, I'm the one with the Collins Sexton stock and I think you're going to look up and there will be people that you will say passed on Sexton that it wasn't all that while. Let this stuff play out. He's only played two years in the league.

I love what Sexton brings to the table. He is a dog, an absolute dog. And those guys, when they've got the work ethic to go along with it, Sexton's, I think Sexton's going to have an outstanding career. I do. I still believe in him. I would like him in like a Kendrick Nunnroll. If he could play with a big point guard like Jimmy Butler,

and then he could guard point guards and not be a playmaker. I think that's probably what makes most sense for him. but it's hard to find a big six, seven guy come on point for you. Yeah. Well, and now, I mean, you see with Kevin Porter, it's one night, right? But it would just, the reason we wanted to mention it is because there is stuff there with him. It's not like he's had some kind of amazing season, but he also wasn't a disastrous rookie season either. And he is a guy that I could see taking a leap, you know, next year or the following year.

I think to me with Cleveland, they've just got to find someone who, like, pass. is the ball. It's really hard in a rebuilding team if you have one guy who creates shots for other people. Whether it's Sexton, Garland Porter, one of those guys has got to be a playmaker. If that doesn't happen, you get a bunch of guys as Jack and Shost and a bad team forever. Well, and they've been a bad team

all season long. That is for sure. And all their veterans, you know what I mean? Like, it would have been nice to have a veteran to do that. You don't have any. You know what I mean? That's what happens, though, charts. When your when your big guys are Kevin Love and And Andre Drummond,

but it's been Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson and Larry Nance and none of the guys that have any years in the league are the ones that are expected to like run the offense like ever. You just talked about in that last show how it was nice for them to add Jeff Teague in Atlanta. Like why can't you just add somebody that can, right, keep the ball moving or get out there and show these guys, you know, and nights where they don't have it or nights that they need lesson learned. but they've got all young guards. Yeah, I'm looking at their stats. They got no one averaging four assists a game. That's kind of miserable. Well, there's nobody young.

The other guy they had was Jordan Clarkson. He's never been known for being a... Another guy got to get his shot, for sure. He doesn't... He's not Bob Coosie himself. All right. Last thing, we are now careening towards the conference tournaments. that are going to go on at college basketball.

We're coming towards the end of the regular season, which will lead in the conference tournament. People do start to amp up and watch a lot more college basketball down the stretch. Give me a couple of names that are worth going out of my way to watch, you think. We have chronicled many times. This draft has gotten just beat to hell at the top with either guys not playing college basketball. In the case of the kid, Halliburton from Iowa State getting injured.

I mean, Anthony Davis might not, or Anthony Edwards, I'm sorry, might not be playing in the conference tournament, but he'll be playing in the conference tournament, that's for sure. Yeah, so give me a couple that might be worth going out of my way to watch. Okay, actually, I got a story coming out on Thursday

on the ringer about two sleepers I like a lot in this draft. Perfect. It's Josh Green at Arizona, and then Cassius Stanley at Duke. So they're both 6-6 wings who are extremely athletic, who can shoot threes and have some ball handling ability

and a little feel for the game. They're both guys who are in smaller roles on their teams. So there are nights where those guys don't do a lot and you're kind of like, what's the big deal?

Because they're playing with like star college point guards and they play off the ball. If you're looking for guys who can fit a role in the NBA, a little bit like Kevin Porter. These are two really big, two guards who can shoot it, who are pretty athletic, who can play defense, and who have

some feel to their game. They're probably not going to be primary guards as the next level, but there are guys who, if you run them off the line, they can dribble and pass someone else. I think those are two guys who, if you catch them on the right night, you see a six, six guy stroking threes and dunkin on people. Oh, this guy's going to be a star. They're not having that kind of role in their college teams. One plays for Arizona, one place for Duke. So they're probably like the second or third best players in their college teams, but they had the kind of tools, I think, in an M-based setting, be more valuable. Yeah, I'm looking

here at, I pulled up Stanley. Numbers are good, 49% from the field, 54% from 2, 37% from 3. 73% for the line. Yeah, he broke Zion's vert record at Duke. He's like a 45-inch vertical. On the 12 points and 5 rebounds a game. Yeah, and he's... He gets steals.

Yeah, he's not projected, you know, crazy high. Yeah, because I think at Duke, Duke's best players are point guard, Trey Jones, and they have a traditional big man in Vernon Carey. So he's like your third option. So there are games where he doesn't do anything. It's like, who cares? But I think you look at his like skill set and his tools,

that's the guy I think of the NBA will be more valuable, if that makes sense. Yeah, he was a, I'm looking back, four-star kid coming out of high school. L.A. guy. He might have played at Sierra Canyon, actually. I have to go look. I think he might have. Looks like he was 37th. He did play at Sierra Canyon.

Yeah. The one knock on him is he's old. He's like already 20 years old for a freshman. That's kind of like the big, okay, he's a little like playing behind his age. But to me, he's a very polished, he's a very polished player too for a guy, a freshman.

He's a little older, but that's my guy. I like him. Well, there was another guy that was a little older. You know, what's funny, for whatever reason, I know he's a little bigger than that, but it conjured up when you were talking about him. The description reminded me a little bit of Rodney Hood when he was there. They're both lefties.

So I thought of that, too. He's a lefty. He's not the same level. of shooter his hood, but he's more athletic and he's a little smaller. But they're both lefty, two guards at Duke. All right. And the Arizona kid, what was the name again? Josh Green. Josh Green. I'm going to go out of my way. Because Arizona's got a kid that could very well go in the lottery, too, right? With, um, that's the thing. It's Nico Mannion. So like, Manny gets all the publicity because you watch him. He's the point guard. He has a ball in his hands

the whole game. He's a great passer. So he kind of gets all the shine. But he's not, doesn't a great athletic ability for a point guard, only an average shooter. So to me, I think Green's actually the better NBA prospect, even though Mani is a better college player. Yeah, Green was a huge high school kid. I mean, he's McDonald's All-American. He was ranked eighth in the ESPN 100. So, I mean, he certainly had his accolades as a, he's an IMG kid.

He's kind of the reverse of R.J. Hampton. He's an Australian kid who went to the U.S. to play basketball. He's from Australia originally. Yeah, I'm seeing this. how about this one? It's a story by Jeff Borzello that was written my god, 278 days ago.

So, I mean, a long, long time ago, there's a whole documentary on him. Oh, really? On ESPN, Josh Green, born to ball. I'm looking at it right now. That's awesome. There's a whole, there's like five episodes. And then it says Josh Green,

Australia's newest basketball star. How about that? I love what I love when a mid-first time Pixar already got a documentary series. No, it's about him going from Australia to Braden and Florida and then signing with Arizona. Yeah, he's been on the circuit for a long time.

I think I saw him at like basketball on the borders three years ago. So he's been around for a while. He's got the tools. He's just, he's more of a streakier shooter than Stanley. But he's got the tools. He actually passed pretty well two for a two guard. I think he's like a three or four assists.

Charks, I can't thank you enough for filling in again this week. and I will talk to you again on Friday. All right, cool. Thanks having me on. Thanks for paying your debts. I appreciate that. I did.

You're a man of your word, Chris. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of the Ringer MBA show. If you dig what you're here, go give us a rating interview on iTunes, five stars. Five stars. It really helps. Thanks to Bobby Wagner for producing again, and we will talk to you on Friday.