The Ringer NBA Show - Lin-sad-ity, the End-of-Bench Rolodex, and Early Over/Unders | The Mismatch

Episode Date: July 30, 2019

Jeremy Lin bemoans the likely end of his NBA career (1:59) which begs the question: Which fringe NBA players could be valuable additions for contending teams (14:38)? Plus: Evaluating early Vegas odds for 2019-20 win totals (37:16). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. This week, we're debuting a brand new three-part podcast series with Quentin Tarantino and Amy Nicholson called Quentin Tarantino's feature presentation. Here's a quick trailer with more info. If you go to Quentin Tarantino's new Beverly Cinema in Los Angeles, you're going to hear that feature presentation song. And when the movie starts, you're going to step in to Quentin Tarantino's brain. If you own a movie or you own a print of a film, it feels like. Like it's your movie. Consequently, it's like if people really like the movie and they go, wow, that movie was terrific.

My response was, oh, thank you very much. I was like, I took credit for it because, well, it was my print. And I put the whole thing together to show it. So I actually felt like they were complimenting me. This is Quentin Tarantino's feature presentation, a new three-part podcast miniseries hosted by me, film critic Amy Nicholson of Unschooled and Halloween Unmast. Before the release of his new film Once Upon a Time in Hose, Hollywood, Quentin and I sat down to talk about five films that he's programmed at the new

Beverly, and we wound up talking about his life, his work, and how this movie crazy kid became a director who defined a generation. Waiting for the lights to go down, and no one knows what to expect. Is this going to be one of those special times? Is it not going to be one of those special times? It's going to be a forgettable time. The first episode of Quentin Tarantino's feature presentation is out later this week. It is the closest thing to sharing a bucket of popcorn with the man himself, so subscribe now wherever you hear podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Brien, Kavanaugh.

Berdo! What's going on? Well, it has been slow times in the NBA. And as we get to this part of the calendar, what always takes place is if something happens, it becomes a much bigger story than normally would because there's nothing going on. And such was the case. I mean, it feels like it would not be a big story at all instead because it is something that took place over the course of the last week. It becomes a focus of all the debate shows and it becomes big on social media, etc. And that is Jeremy Lynn. At a motivational speech in Taiwan for the Christian outlet, good TV, the clip surfaces of him saying in English, there's a saying that, It says once you hit rock bottom, the only way is up.

But rock bottom just seems to be getting more and more rock bottom for me. So free agency has been tough because I feel like in some ways the NBA's kind of given up on me. And Jeremy Lynn has clearly been a famous figure within the NBA since Lynn sanity. But this story is one that would kind of happen. You'd see the headline and then it would pass. But because it comes in a dead part of the calendar, it is. is something to latch on to, this creates a wide range of opinions and a lot of talk,

conversation about this. And it feels like it's coming down on one of two sides. There's some that say it's great that now players feel comfortable in showing their emotions. And this is proof that, you know, money doesn't bring happiness. And, you know,

he just won that championship ring with Toronto. There's one side saying, oh, yeah, we should all be so rocked. bottom like give me a break there's guys that are living on the street for goodness sakes give it a rest jeremy lynn and then there's another side saying hey this is what we want we want people to be vulnerable we want people to be able to express how they actually feel and so praise be to jeremy lynn for telling us what his reality is right now um and then it becomes this talking

point so you saw the clip inevitably like everybody else what'd you think i really appreciate Jeremy Lynn's vulnerability in that statement that he made. I mean, like the full context of that, I don't feel like got enough. I mean, this is typical in any type of media, whether it's sports or politics these days, but I don't think the full context of his statement really got enough press. He really went quite in depth into not just how like, woe is me. Woe is me. It's the end of my career, but just the trials and tribulations of fame and the whole journey

and all the hits that he's taken along the way with the injuries and everything else. It wasn't just the rock bottom statement, and I wish that part got talked about a bit more. And in regards to Jeremy Lynn, it's like, no surprise it's the end here for him. I mean, for two reasons. For one, with the way the NBA has evolved, players of all shapes and sizes are handling the ball now, which has diminished the importance of needing like a traditional backup point guard like Jeremy Lynn is at this stage of his career post-injury at 30 years old. That's just the way the game has changed.

And he is one of the many victims of that evolution. of the league. But other than that, it's like, I don't feel bad for Jeremy Lynn. I think right now he's just coming to terms with just how brief a career is and that at 30 years old now comes the point where what's next in my life. This is all I have known for the last seven, eight years, the NBA. And that's always what the dream has been. So now is it, do you go play international basketball?

Do you retire and focus on, I believe he might have said focusing on his Christianity is something that he might also do next? but it's like, this is what so many players face is what's next after their career when this is something that they've, they've targeted their entire life as the career that they wanted. And for him, now it's about what's next. And so that's where I ultimately landed. It's like, I don't feel bad for him because all the success that he had, the amount of money that he earned, the amount of success that he had, the inspiration he served as and continues

to serve as for so many kids around the world as a point guard that has accomplished everything that he has. There's nothing to feel bad for. If anything, he should feel proud. and I think he will at some point, but right now we're witnessing a window into the person coming to terms with the end,

likely the end of their NBA career. Yeah, and it's because of the timing of it all and because he is in front of a huge crowd in Asia, you know, I mean, there's a level of embarrassment, humiliation, whatever you want to call it, right? Like, this is a hero, and here he is standing there. He doesn't have a team.

And I don't think anybody can understand the level of coverage. that somebody like Jeremy gets, there's tons of guys in the NBA that never have their moment in the NBA. There's tons of 30-year-olds in the G-League still fighting to get their moment. And so I do understand what people are like,

oh, come on. You made $50 million. And you know, you're on the cover of the New York Post. And I mean, you just won a championship ring as being part of the Toronto Raptors enough already. I get that. There is going to be that segment of the popular. The other side is, as you're saying, the coming to terms with it. And I will tell you that I've had an interesting relationship with this type of stuff, not necessarily the coming to the end, but the, hey, you think the guy has everything, but you cannot account for being miserable. And I say that with, I got to know Chandler Parsons well over what is now a source of mockery.

It is now a source of conversation in one of the worst free agent contracts ever given, $94 million and really no, almost no substantial contribution whatsoever. And then this massive celebration when the contract was moved this off season. But I was around him a lot and watched him, you know, trying to rehab, trying to get better, trying, you know, days where he'd say, hey, I feel best I felt in years and whatever else. but I remember having a conversation with him, an interview I did, and he didn't want to leave his house. And people can say, oh, boo-hoo, I wouldn't leave my house for $94 million. But it sucks when every time you post something on social media, you're just hit with a barrage of people telling you what a low-life piece of crap you are. And you should pick up your check in a ski mask and whatever else. And then even when you go out in public, people are like pointing and snickering.

And I know that seems trivial, but like he hated it. He hated it. Like, yes, he has tons of money. Yes, he has the houses, the cars, Instagram models, you name it. But he wanted to play basketball. That's what these guys want to do. And he's not able to do it. And he becomes the butt of everyone's joke.

And when he's out on the town, you know, people are pulling out their cameras like, hey, look, here's the bum the grizzly sign. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not a fun life. You know what I mean? You can say, well, I'd sign up for that if you gave me that amount of money. But in the end, when these guys wake up in the morning, they want to be able to do their job. They can't.

Their body has failed them completely. And you're just the butt of everybody's joke. And it feels like nobody likes you. You know, everybody's mad at you, even though there's nothing you necessarily did about it. I mean, I don't know. I think I got a little bit of different perspective. on that because they are humans and, you know, it sucks to not even want to go out to a restaurant or something. You know what I'm saying? No, no doubt. I mean, like, money doesn't guarantee

happiness. It can, it can only aid in the fact that, like, there are so many people across the world that struggle to have electricity, that struggle to put food in the table. So sometimes it's hard for people to feel bad for someone that has made $50 million in their career or somebody like Chandler Parsons that made all the money that he did it's hard to feel sympathy in that sense but still problems are relative and like I said money does not guarantee happiness and for you know in regards to Jeremy Lane like we can't we don't know exactly what he's going through he could be going something through something more than it seemed he could be going he could just be dealing with it on that particular day yeah I think it's going back there and doing that speech in

front of everybody and you have gone from everybody wanted to take pictures and getting your autograph. The only question you answer is, are you still going to be in the NBA? You know, right? Like, that's your life now. I think what people really want to feel is like a purpose. And I think for Jeremy Lynn, and like this is, I don't know of this for sure, but like I said earlier, I would imagine that for him, it's like, well, what do I do now?

What is it in my life that makes me wake up each morning? Because it's not whatever the money can buy. Like, what is it that motivates him to be better, to work hard? and for a long time that was basketball on the platform that that provided for him. But now there's the big question for something that he's focused on for so long and just put so much energy and heart

into what he's passionate about is likely being taken away from him. And I know people can say, well, he can play basketball overseas. He can play basketball in the big three. But that's not the same when the NBA has always been the goal. So for Jeremy Lynn, it's just a look at a person

and that's important to remember here. He is a person like you and I and anybody else that is having something taken away from him a bit earlier than perhaps he had hoped for despite all the success that he's had. There's always more. And for him, like I said, I don't feel bad because of all that he's accomplished,

but I do feel for him in this moment when you don't know what the future holds. And that's sometimes the scariest part of all. I mean, and it's possible, you know, you've got all these guys talking about what a great teammate he is, etc., etc., it's possible he can still end up on an NBA team, number one. He's only 30 years old.

Number two, if he doesn't, as you chronicled a little bit earlier, He's not like a dead eye shooter. He's kind of a pick and roll point guard. One of the big problems is that he, he's not durable. And that's what you need for your backup point guard, right? Your backup point guard is the guy that when your first guy sprains his ankle, when his first guy bust his knee and he's got to miss a couple of weeks,

that you're okay with this guy starting for a couple of weeks, which would typically be the case with Jeremy Lynn, except he's been injured over the course of the past. couple of years. And so with a limited upside at this point and not necessarily being able to be durable, that's the reality of the situation. One thing I also want to say is, I mean, who is better suited now? Like, if it doesn't work out in the NBA, it's different for him than some of these other guys. This guy could go become a megastar overseas. Like an absolute megastar, Kev. He goes and plays in China. I know, but still. What? The United States is home.

Like, this is home. I understand. Going overseas is an entire lifestyle change. I understand, but a lot of guys aren't set up to be a superstar elsewhere, is what I'm saying. This guy could be a superstar elsewhere. Sure, but I don't think that's necessarily what he wants. He also said in that speech that he wouldn't want his son to make the NBA because he wouldn't want his son to deal with everything that comes from it like you just talked about,

all the pressure, all the fame and all the negatives that come from it. In other words, he's saying the good necessarily isn't, I'm, I'm not sure if he's saying this, but it seems like he's suggesting that some of the good isn't always worth it because of all the negative that comes from it. Well, he's just down right now. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that if that's the case, but he's just saying he wouldn't want a son to make the NBA. Yeah, ask him a week after he gets signed and then find out. You know what I'm saying? If he gets signed again, maybe his tune changed.

Yeah, I'd love my kid to be in the NBA. He's had a lot of pressure, though. I mean, I can't help but listen to his comments and just think about how it just serves an example of how brief this all really is. life in general. You really have to be here now and enjoy every moment. So these years that Jeremy Lynn had, maybe there's part of him that is like,

boy, that flew by. I wish I took that in more. I appreciated that more in the moment. I always say this, but don't take your NBA career for granted. All right. So Jeremy Lynn is one of those guys. I want to pivot into,

you know, when I heard his thoughts and I'm talking about Rock Bottom, there's always guys that filter out of the league in any given season. You have a whole new crop of young guys. You have guys that come from overseas. You have guys that are signed out of the G League. You have new guys signing two-way deals on and on and on.

And then there are guys- 45 to 50 rookies every year. Yeah. Then once you get to the veterans minimum, that number goes higher. Now there are teams that will take a second round guy that has an amount of upside. And wow, imagine if we catch lightning in a bottle with this guy, we don't know what is upside. Same way in the draft.

do this on the end of their bench in the NBA. And so there are guys that no longer have roster spots in the NBA. That being said, when I listened to Jeremy Lind talk, I went and pulled up the names and I'm like, let me go look at the guys that are still out there, right? That I'm either going to find out like there'll be some story that they signed overseas or there'll be maybe I see him in the big three next year or maybe they're on the sideline coaching for somebody or maybe they're just still going to be out there and they get signed farther down the way in the NBA season when somebody gets hurt and teams necessitate someone.

Now, some of these guys will for sure be on a team and time has just not been on their side. But I'm going to go through the guys that are available right now and I just want you to check them off. It's an inspiring list. It's an inspiring list, but no, no, no, no, no, no. So inspiring. I want you to, hey, I want you to stop me when you say either I would take a chance on that guy or I think that guy could help me if I'm a good team.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So I'm stopping you when you say a guy that could help. Or that you think is worth taking a crack at because he's young. Because there's these guys that just ended their like rookie contracts. And that might be the end of it. Right.

All right. So I'll start with some of those. Jarrell Martin. I mean, I covered him here. He got traded to Orlando. You really started with Jarrell Martin. No, no, no. I'm going with these guys that are like this might just be the end after a first or, you know, minor contracts.

Yep. All right. Jeryl Martin, Justin Anderson, Nick Stouskis, I know it's a little bit longer. Can I just say these names you're saying here? I had an executive say to me a couple years ago, and it's a thought that stuck with me. He said there's certain players that. You're not going to give up on, but you don't want to be the team that's investing the years in him that are going to be required to potentially make him a serviceable NBA player. And those three names you just said all kind of fit that criteria where it's like maybe Justin Anderson will be an NBA player someday.

But I'm not going to sign him. I'm going to let him go play in Europe for three years. And then I'm going to continue to monitor him and then take a shot at him. So I think by passing on them now, it doesn't mean you're giving up on them. it just means you're not willing to invest in them now. Does that make sense? Yeah, here's a guy whose name came up that I remember liking in college. And I swear to God, I mean, I'm sure that in passing, I've seen him here and there.

But I just kind of forgot about him. Jerry and Grant, did you like him coming out? Not really. He was fine. He was solid. You know, I liked him in college. He's a kid from Notre Dame, right? Notre Dame.

Yeah, solid, yep, solid player. Notre Dame team. I remember him against Willie Colley Stein in that Kentucky game. Yep. Uman Shumpert. Iman Shumperd was probably one of the few remaining free agents that actually made a positive contribution last year. Okay. Granted, I'm not sure his three point percentage.

I think he shot 38, 39% from three, a career high. That's not sustainable for him, but he's somebody who was at least a positive contributor on the court. All right. Cephalosha? Yeah. All right. I'm going to tell you that I'm going to stop at this one because I am going to endorse this. at the end of the season last year,

the three most common questions I got regarding the team that I cover all the time was, what are they going to do with the number two pick, which is John Moran? Are they bringing back Valchunis and are they bringing back Jochim Noah? I promise you Jochim Noah can help a team. He is an unbelievable locker room guy and energy guy. And I am shocked that he has not latched on to one of these teams. I think it would be big for, especially, one of these contenders to have him.

This is a guy that has totally come to terms with who he is within the landscape of the NBA. And I had a very long interview where he talked about how I did. I took it for granted. I took it for granted. Everything that I had. And there is no day that I am taking for granted anymore. And it is a blessing to be in the NBA.

And he played that way and he acted that way every day. am shocked he is still available. He can still play and he could help somebody for sure. If I'm a contending team out there, I would be very excited because I'm telling you I was around this guy for four months and he is, he is great for a team. He really is. Leader, he's been through it all. He's been on 60 win teams. He's been defensive player of the year. He's been an all-star. He got the huge contract and then he screwed everything. You know what I mean? His body failed him. He had tons of surgeries. So Noah, I do think, could help somebody. for sure. And I still get that question all the time. He was a mega fan favorite immediately.

The only place that doesn't like him, Chicago fans love him. The only place that doesn't like him is the Knicks, which understandably. Ryan Anderson, done. Can't defend. Okay. Vince Carter, another guy that I've known great, great locker room guy and like kind of old sage, really willing to help young players too. And I know he wants to play one more year, but. Yeah, I was going to say, I wonder for him it's about waiting for the right situation to come up. Maybe so. Maybe so. J.R. Smith, the golfer. The golfer. I still can't believe that.

You broke my brain when you told me that story last week. Let me tell you something. I don't know if I'll ever forgive myself, Kevin. So I was at a charity event in conjunction with a golf tournament and I walk in and J.R. is there. And J.R. is sitting at a table. I mean, he's right. right next to me. He's got a big brim hat on. He is at a table. This was hilarious. Listen to this table that he was at this charity event for St. Jude. It was J.R. Smith,

Joe Thysman, David Wells, the former Yankees pitcher. David Wells. Wow. And Brad Penny, the former Major League Baseball player. It was the weirdest table ever. And so there was a huge silent auction that was going on, right? and I said if I do one thing, I'm going and I'm getting my, I'm snapping a picture with JR while he's here at this event with us. And so the silent auction is going on. There's all kinds of hustle and bustle going on. And I get done.

I go back to the table where my buddies are. And I was like, all right, I got to go find J.R. Because I got to send this thing to Kevin O'Connor. This is going to be great, especially because he's playing golf in a pro am the next day. And so I turn around, go find him. He's gone. Wow. Oh, I've never forgiven myself.

He had already left. I was so mad. So I was going to hit you with it too. Oh, geez. That would have been epic. Yes, I know. Would have been epic. Did you like settle for David Wells' photo or something?

No, no, I didn't care about any of the others. Does David Wells still have the goatee? He always had a goatee. He did have a goatee. Does he still have that? Still rocking it? Yeah. I mean, there's a bunch of guys there.

Theo was there for God's sake. I saw a photo of T.O. It's hilarious. I remember currently. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways, J.R.

Smith, back on a team? I mean, maybe he's a full-time golfer now. Look, a lot of these, a lot of these guys are listening, listen,

even Eamon Shumpert, who I mentioned earlier, some of these guys, to me, there are options that if you find that you're young player that you were willing to take a shot on

as working out, mid-season, they strike me as players that you're more apt to chase. Someone like Jamal Crawford comes, to mine as well in that same category or maybe mid-year you go for him, even a Jonas or Rebko, someone like him as well, where maybe you don't sign him now, but you do during the

season find a need and a guy who can be a shooter for you and a positional defender. A lot of these guys left, I don't know, man. It's a pretty uninspiring. All right. How about this? Lance Stevenson. No. Okay. Sean Livingston is going to be on a team, right? He's not good anymore. but Sean Livingston himself said in an interview that he wants to go to a team where he can essentially serve as a mentor and play only spot minutes. So he he's one of those guys that understands what he is now as an NBA player. And ultimately, that's the big issue with a lot of guys when they age. Like we're seeing that now with Carmelo Anthony. Chonzie Billups himself said how Mello cares too much about scoring 30 points.

Mello has not accepted and acted on the fact that he can still be a. positive contributor if he totally buys into busting his ass on defense, rebounding at a higher level than he ever has afforded. He's been good in his career in that regard too. But making the right play and evolving as a player, he could still contribute if he did all of those things. But he has not gotten to the level that he needs to

at 35, 36 years old right now. Yeah, got a little bit of a wave on players going out there with the free Mello stuff and it's ridiculous that Mello's not on a team. I don't understand. These guys play against Carmelo Anthony, they know how horrible he is on defense. I mean, seriously, like, players know.

Players aren't dumb. Like, they know. They also know he's better than 100 guys in a 400-something player league. But being better doesn't necessarily earn you a spot. It's sometimes it's about investing in a young player long term. Are you more willing to sign a guy who's slightly worse than Carmelo Anthony, but is 24 years old and doesn't come with all the, a circus that's going to come around the team that signs Carmelo Anthony?

Well, here's the thing you know. I don't know. I don't think so. You know that if Carmelo Anthony, if he decide, you know, he could have a whole other life as an NBA player. He is that talented. You know, and there's some guys that do and figure it out like Vince Carter. The aforementioned, right. There's a bunch of guys that, you know, figure out like, all right, now I'm a role player. And here's how I can contribute to winning.

And sometimes it's guys that have gone through the hardship of injury, whether it's like a Grant Hill or Antonio McDice had a really tough injury, but then kind of reinvented himself as like a good pick and pop guy. Penny Hardaway extended his career. You know, guys that, okay, they're not going to be that first team all-star caliber, superstar type guy. But they could stay in the NBA and extend this career and play for a long time by doing the things they are really good at. reinventing themselves. Like Jason Kidd reinvented himself and ended up winning a title with Dallas. And then there's the others. And Carmelo feels more like, or at least that people feel, he's more in the Iverson side, right? Like Iverson's career, he absolutely could have played basketball longer than he did. I mean, look, he signed in Memphis. I never saw him play a home game because they went on the road at the very beginning of the season. He was playing behind Mike Conley.

and after the game, the reporters went to him, and they're like, are you feeling okay? And he goes, my butt hurts from sitting on the bench. That's what he said. My butt hurts from sitting on the bench. And if you, I mean, he's like, I mean, I'm fine, except my butt hurts. And they were like, your butt. And he's like, yeah, from sitting on the bench.

I mean, he was, he was gone within a week. He was gone within a week. The NBA needs another Iversome. Like, those are some all-time quotes. Oh, unbelievable. And I mean, he just was, he was not going to be fine with that. And so if Carmelo Anthony at some point decides he's going to be fine with being a contributor rather than a key player, then he could certainly, I mean, there's, he could absolutely play several more years. He is a talented guy for sure.

Yeah. Carmelo Anthony ultimately just needs to experience ego death. Yeah. And then perhaps at that point, Carmelo will be able to come in and be a positive. contributor to on a good team because I still think, I still think Houston was in the right to at least give it a shot. I think they were. It just didn't work. It just didn't work. But I thought considering that system and how funky it is, he was in a perfect situation where he could have served as that big ball handler that they needed, but more than that being the off ball knockdown shooter than they

need, but he did not knock down shots for Houston. He has historically been a streaky up and down spot-up shooter and he still can't defend at all, partially because of effort, partially because of old legs. Yeah, that's just there. I mean, you know, that's Daryl, uh, Mori, who will just, he'll swing for the fences. You know, he said that. And sometimes he likened the way they think about things to, uh, the old baseball player, Rob Deere.

It's either a strikeout or a home run. And he's whiffed. Obviously, look, he whiffed with the Ty Lawson thing that he thought really hurt, you know, a season one year. He whiffed on the Carmelow thing. but I mean he still keeps taking cracks. He takes cracks at guys that have been incredibly underwhelming like, you know,

Marquis Chris or Michael Carter Williams or this year. I mean, I just saw this past week. He signed Ben McElmore. What? Ben McElmore might be the worst player in the league. I mean, you had a Ben McLemore run.

Net negative. Net negative. He is a net negative. End of store. I just always has like. What does he like in the locker room? Yeah, he's a nice guy. He's a nice guy.

Okay. all right. Yeah, no, he's not a, he's not a prick. He's just not any good. I guess that's why I was curious. It's not like he's going to bring a negative vibe to your locker room. Then maybe only 25, 26 years old. Stop.

An athlete. I'm just saying, worth a shot for like the 14th, 15th guy in your bench. You sound like Daryl and I'm sitting across from you as Mike Dantone like, stop. Yeah. Look, the odds are it won't work, but he also signed somebody like Michael Frazier, who's had a couple good years.

in the G League. Michael Frazier was a guy at Florida who was a tremendous shooter, someone who could handle the ball a little bit too. And then in the NBA, like he has failed, but he had some success in the G League and only 25 worth a shot. Worth a shot. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to more of these names. First, I want to remind everybody that today's episode of the mismatch is brought to you by Express. I love jeans. Jay Skeets from the starter shouted. me out last week after he was listening to the pop because he heard me say how much I love jeans. He also loves jeans. And if you love your jeans, comfort and fit are important. And express

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All right, let me ask you about a couple of these guys, and I'm just going to group them all together, because these are the big guys. Boy, this is really a late July podcast. We're talking about Michael Frazier and Ben McLemore. This is who's left. Are we going to mention Deonté Davis too? Who Houston also signed?

By the way, he's already signed. Another Memphis guy. He's already signed. And this is why I'm so diabolical. All right? You ready for this? And Isaac can back me up on this. I am getting all of this.

You want to think that this is just a simple July podcast. and I'm doing all this free agency stuff. I'm diabolical with this, Kev. I'm getting this all on record right now. So when you start kissing these teams' asses for signing one of these guys, we can go back to this podcast and you can be like, I really like the Amman Shumper signing. I really like the Ryan Anderson signing.

A stretch four that can really stretch the floor. And I'm going to be sitting there going, wait, we did a podcast where he told me these guys stunk. We're going to have better stuff to talk about then. Ryan Anderson signing for the league Minut of not to play any minutes. Let one of your fan bases that love you sign these guys and you'll be there talking about what a good signing it is.

It's a signing that, let's just say this at a time. Unless a team is extremely desperate for wing help or like a guy gets hurt, it doesn't make sense to sign that player right now. We're talking about if you sign that guy, it's a guy who's not going to play in the playoffs. If you sign Eamon Shumpert, he's helping you get to the playoffs.

That's it. Darrell Maure could sign Moses Malone tomorrow and you would think it's a good idea. All right. You'd be like, he's big. You know, we might be able to help veteran presents. Moses Malone is dead. I know. He'd be like, you know, there's a chance he could come back alive.

I don't know. I mean, dead Moses Malone will get more rebounds than Deonté will. Oh, all right. Oh, whoa. That's a burn, Chris. Wow. Neneh, Amir Johnson, Costa Cufus, Marcyne Gortat. You like any of them?

Amir Johnson's done. Because of the phone. If you name the others again, sorry. Nay, Ney, Amir Johnson, Costa Cufus, Marcyne Gortat. Boy, geez. None of them. This is some list. All right.

And then here's the last one. Timothy, Timothy Lihuahalu Cabro. I'm sure you loved him because Sam Hinky took him. You know what? I did love Luawu in the 2016 draft, and I thought he was going to be one of the steals of the drafts, and I was dead wrong.

I was wrong about Luahu. He stinks. But I did like him a lot as a prospect. Still only 24 years old. Again, he falls into that category I mentioned earlier, somebody where maybe if you liked him in the 16 draft, you're not giving up, but you're not willing to sign him. Let him go overseas for a while. Let him play in the G League.

And then maybe two or three years from now, you take a look again or not. He falls under that category. We don't sign him now. He is a decent, and John Hollinger wrote about this years ago on ESPN, and he called it the second draft. And it is like that type of guy, like some of those guys that we have named, the Lulalu Cabarros, the George. The Jarrell Martins, the Justin Anderson's, the, who was the other one that we talked about? Oh, Jerry and Grant. You know, like, okay, it didn't work out.

For whatever reason, it didn't work out with their first team or even possibly their second or third team. And maybe it was because of coaching turnover. Maybe the front office, you know, changed over and they didn't really believe in him or whatever else. And so then what was termed the second draft, it's like, okay, now these guys have been let go by their teams and somebody else is going to. give them a crack because maybe it was environment,

maybe it was the situation they were in, maybe it was coaching, or maybe they stink, you know, but teams are willing to find out because they had a conviction about the kid four years ago, right? You may end up as a good candidate for that. Sure.

You know, the best ever, well, maybe not the best ever, but one of the best examples of that is PJ Tucker. Played one year in the NBA, really was not an impactful player. then he went overseas for five years before coming back with Phoenix. Now here he is, all these years later and is viewed as one of the better defensive players in the entire league, a leader,

one of the more versatile players across the league as well on the defensive end, somebody that has become a mold to strive for in your role players who were those six, seven, six eight wings that are strong and beefy. They can use as a small ball five or they can use as a three, can use them as a four. and somebody who accepts their role and understands what their role is on the team and does not necessarily push outside of what they are good at. PJ Tucker has become that player after five years overseas. And he's just one of the many examples of why you can't give up on guys even when they're gone. They can always pluck players away overseas. All right, Kevin, I do want to ask you one last thing before we get out of here today.

And that is that since we have last spoken, the NBA win totals have come out in Las Vegas, where people go and put money on these. Now, we will for sure talk about these much closer to the season after things have shaken out completely. But when they were posted, and as of, I will give you some of them as of today. And these were updated as of July 28th. I'll just go with the numbers that are at the Westgate right now. The Bucks, 58 and a half wins. Sixers, 55 and a half wins.

Clippers, 54 and a half wins. Jazz 54 and a half wins, Rockets, 54 and a half wins. Those are the top five right now. Bucks, Sixers, Clippers, Jazz Rockets. Do you agree with Vegas that those will be the five best teams in the league?

I think the Lakers are underrated at 49 and a half. I would bump them up. You would? Yeah, I would bump them up. I would. Okay. But I mean, it's like,

was it last week we talked about the Lakers or the week before regardless. Yep. Whenever it was that we talked about them, I think they have sort of been underrated. I think their role players have been underrated. They have a lot of knockdown jump shooters. I think LeBron James is somehow become slightly underrated.

People act like the end is here just because of 60,000 minutes, just because of the injury last year. We've been doing that for years in the NFL with Tom Brady, and it's very possible we'll be doing it for years with LeBron James as well, assuming that the end is coming, until we see a significant decline. I'm not ready to even explore that conversation. And AD, the last year, he was fully, fully actually playing functional basketball with a team around him.

He was maybe the best player in the league in that 17, 18 season. So pairing LeBron James and AD alone should have them over 50 wins. Like, to me, if you're placing a bet on over-unders, I'd be hammering the over on the Lakers right now. You would be, okay. And they are right now sitting at 49. a half. I guess some books have them even, there's fluctuates a lot because there's a couple other books that have them

at 51 and a half right now. Relative to others, though, they're still not in the top five in any other book, though I don't think. Yeah. Well, and a lot of these teams that have made the improvements, they are projected like the bucks, like the Sixers. Like all these teams have made improvements in the offseason. And then the only one, you know, of the top teams, the only season win total for next year that is lower than the number that they won last year is the Nuggets,

which is a little surprising to me because I do think there's something to be said for bringing back continuity. You know, that feels underrated to me that like there's always a learning curve. There is always a figuring it out that takes a little while, whereas the Nuggets should be able to come in two barrels loaded because it's their team. and they were awesome last year. So I'm a little bit surprised that their number is, I don't know, I don't know, maybe it should be because other team's improvement has been so great, right? Is there any team on that list that is obscenely underrated or overrated in your eyes?

I would say the one that stood out to me, there were two that stood out to me. And I mean, look, this is two more fan bases that'll be mad at me. But one of them was the Mavericks. that feels like just that's a bank on Rick Carlisle. 39 and a half. We have not seen Porzingis play. And who else are you in love with when you get past Luca on that team?

I was going to say, Luca. No, no, no. All right. So Luca and Porzingis. Who else? I mean, DeLon Wright, they signed, which was that was their big free agent. But, I mean, honestly.

Are you telling me, Chris, that you're not betting on Dwight Powell to make a league this year? No, I think that number's high. And I absolutely. I would much rather have the Pelicans roster, much, much rather. Well, you know, that's the interesting thing here with some of these overunders. I feel like the Pelicans are the name that sticks out to me at 39. So Pelicans are at 39, Mavericks are at 39 and a half.

Like you said, I'd rather have the Pelicans roster, the depth of that roster. But I do think the upside of the Mavericks is higher simply, maybe it's not, but simply because what we've seen from Luca Dantrich, simply because of what we've seen from Chris Stap's Porzingis, but the downside is probably more significant too, because they don't have the amount of quality depth that New Orleans has. But the Mavericks do have one guy, though, that the Pelicans don't have Chris.

They have Bobon. They have Bobon. Stop. That's the difference for the half point there. I knew that when I made my statement. The one that was high to me, how are the Wizards winning 28 games? What?

They're in the East. I don't care. I mean, they also have Bradley Beal. Bradley Beal's really good. Yeah, I know. Once you get past him, it's like, okay, the other guy I liked with Satteransky, he's gone. Like, I mean, they drafted Hachamura and Admiral Schofield. They've got like, like, I just, I look at that roster and I'm like, what?

How were they winning 28? I thought that was high. Maybe, maybe, Isaiah Thomas, a guy I think everybody's rooting for. Maybe Isaiah Thomas has that comeback season. And I hope, like, this is sort of like a good way to put a bow in that Jeremy Lynn conversation. I hope for Isaiah Thomas, this isn't it. I hope this isn't his last chance. I hope that with this opportunity, he'll get with the Wizards, with the minutes that will be there for him, really just competing against Ishma Smith, who is going to play a young player like Troy Brown and on the ball handler.

Isaiah Thomas is going to play for this team. And hopefully he's able to find some level of success that he wasn't able to find since his days in Boston. because it did not go well in Cleveland. It did not go well with the Lakers. It did not go well with Denver. But I hope he's able to have some success this year with the Wizards. So it's not the end for a guy like him. And I'll tell you, another one that stood out to me was the Blazers.

Every year I'm like, really? They're going to win that many games. But I mean, they won 53 games last year. And now their total is eight games lower than that. Like, again, I do put stock in continuity. And they've added some of these guys that, yeah, maybe their contracts are the best. but I mean, I like some of the stuff they did in the off season. I like the addition of Ed Davis.

I like the addition of Ken Baysmore. You know, they'll get back their center, Nerkich. And that team was good all year long. It was good. And they withstood, you know, a lot of these teams, they're dead when they lose a player. They withstood injury last year. They went 10 and 2 down the stretch when one of the big two got hurt.

And they withstood the Nerkich injury. And so I think you've got to give them credit for the level of depth that they have built there, and I do think that depth is still there, and you've got those two amazing dynamic backcourt guys. Like, are they going to be... I suppose that you could not be much worse, but your record could be.

But that's a lot of games that they would lose, that they didn't last year. And again, they went through injury loss last year in 153. So I do think you've got to give Portland a little more credit than they're getting here. Another team of continuity, you know? I wonder how much of that is Nurkich likely missing a larger portion of the season? He got hurt at the end last year.

He was awesome. He was awesome. And not only that, but also like the West is also somehow better. It is stronger too. But we know that some of these, it's totally possible one of them is a disaster, though we, you never see it now, but that it just doesn't work like we think it's going to work. And then for sure, a couple of these new put-together teams, they're going to have big-time growing pains. I mean, even when they put together LeBron, Wade, and Bosch, there were growing pains.

And like you said last year, you know, if you get off to a slower start, then you're going to look up and you've got a lot of ground to make up. And so if you are, say, Houston, and you go through the mellow thing and you go through the beginning of the season without bizdelic, and you look up and you're 25 games in and you're under 500, well, now it's hard to get to. I mean, they got to 53 last year, but they were, you know, on fire from January on. And that's what it takes to get to that number. So I just think you need to give a little more credit. The two of those teams that I mentioned, the Nuggets and the Blazers,

they need a little more credit for just bringing back continuity and that they should be able to get off to a fast start at the beginning of the season. And some of these teams are going to lose games because they haven't figured out who gets the ball in the last five seconds. They haven't figured out how they want to function. I mean, it takes there's a lot of minutes you've got to play together for everybody to figure out who's sacrificing and what role I'm playing, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know. I think maybe some of these teams bringing back guys are a little underrated than the teams that are throwing together a bunch of guys, new guys, you know. We'll be interesting, especially in regards to Portland with Hassan Whiteside, maybe being more motivated, more motivated than he has been in years that maybe the people who are projecting the, these wins are looking at White Sides' recent past production rather than maybe from a couple

years back when he was playing motivated basketball for the Miami Heat. And that's likely what you're going to get moving forward with Portland because motivated Hassan White Side is a good basketball player. And that's something that I don't think should be overlooked, that he can still make a positive contribution when motivated. It's just about how long is he actually going to stay motivated on the court? I don't know. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Oh, and by the way, It is. Happy belated birthday. Thank you, Chris.

Thank you. I appreciate it. Did you get any presents? Just like a Trader Joe's gift card. I got ice cream with my mom. I'm going to see The Lion King today. There you go. My dad's feeling pretty good today.

So we're going to go see a movie. Going to see the Lion King. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I will have to get a Lion King review from Kevin Osimba next week. Yes. Have you seen last week? I went with my dad to see once upon a time in Hollywood. Have you,

have you seen that yet? I have not seen it yet. No, uh-uh. I would go check it out. Really? It's really, really, really good. Really,

really good. The last time. I know a lot of people say how it's like not typical Tarantino and all that. But I think that's fine. Like, what does it matter? I think, I've only been to the theater,

I think one time this summer. I went and saw Toy Story 4. I loved it. I got to see that. Oh, I loved it. I loved it. I thought it was great. I haven't been in the movie.

movies nearly as much in the past year plus or so. Yeah, I haven't either. You know, have you been to a movie in L.A. ever? No. I bring that up because it's so unusual compared to movies anywhere else that I've been at. It's like they are super serious, and I like this, I appreciate this. They are super serious about getting there on time. I know Allison Herman from the Ringer said when she saw the opening screening of Once

Upon a Time in Hollywood, they wouldn't let her friend in because they were like five minutes late. And they show these really harsh ads before the movies about not pulling out your cell phone at all. Like, they are super serious about movies in L.A. And I love that. I really, really do. So it's not like that anywhere else. But people cheer and howl and it's just a great time seeing a movie in Los Angeles.

So I wish I could have seen once upon a time in Hollywood, in Hollywood. But instead I saw it in Massachusetts, which is fine. Still a great movie, no matter where you're. see it but if you're ever in LA go see a movie we will uh it's a good time and I'll make sure we get that Lion King review next week Kevin I will talk to you next Tuesday see you Chris have a good one everybody thanks to everybody for listening to another edition of the ringer NBA show if you dig what you're here and go give us a rating the review on iTunes five stars five stars it really helps and we will talk to you next week