The Ringer NBA Show - Logan Is Back!! Shai vs. Jokic for MVP, Plus What’s Next for Brad Beal and the Suns? | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Logan finally makes his return from paternity leave, and Howard quizzes him on what’s been happening during this NBA season (15:41). The MVP race has been tight, but who truly deserves it (22:58)? An NBA All-Star revelation leads to a spirited discussion on whether the league is promoting the correct things (27:55). Raja’s Suns and Bradley Beal are at odds, but Beal holds all the cards with a no-trade clause. What’s next for both parties (38:55)? Plus, the mailbag and some love for Gelo’s new track bringing back the '99 and 2000s. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the mismatch. And huge welcome as well to my new co-host, Dave Jacoby. I can't wait to link with you twice a week every Tuesday and Friday right here on the mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league. Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction. We've got you covered right here. So follow us, subscribe and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get you. your podcast. And also don't forget to follow us on social media.

That's at Ringer NBA. And check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of podcasting read in the Ringer NBA YouTube channel. What up? It's the real ones. Howard Beck, Senior Ryder for the Ringer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Calm the fuck down. Howard. Wow. Calm down. Calm down. Relax. What? It's Logan Murdox.

It's a voice from the past. He's back. Come down. All right. Okay. I'm back. I just got used to this shit. It was fun. I like doing intros. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, don't with a ball. I so. Everybody get the hell out of the way. Yo, what's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdock here, Roger Bill there, Howard Beckett in the motherfucking cut. What up, Cliff? What they talk about nothing? They talk about nothing. What they talk about? They ain't talking about nothing.

Becaboo. I'm back. Jesus. What's going on? What's up, bro? Right. Let me give you a little NBA etiquette, man. You've been on IR for like two months. My fuckers have settled into the amount of shots

they're going to get the roles that they play. And you just go hop back in, no practice, no warm up and just practice. So I've been playing a lot of pickup during my time off, right? And I have assumed the role of I'm going to shoot that bitch every time I get it. Every time I get it, no matter of the results. Shout to all my partners at the Yap in Berkeley. I have been putting shots up. I have probably gone six of 37

throughout my time and pickup. But of those 37, four of those shots were big shots to put us in the mix to win the game. Two of those shots were two threes from far as fuck. And they went in to just set the tone for the game. Other than that, like, you know,

else you'll be very excited. I don't know how you'll feel about this. but a couple weeks ago, somebody had me messed up and I took a charge with the game on the line and rightfully so. In a pickup game?

I did in a pickup game. You were not rewarded for that. I was joking. I was joking. It was a joke because, no, no, I did it, but it was a joke towards somebody else

and they rightfully didn't give me the possession back. Because they were talking stuff about, like, them getting hacked or whatever, right? And then I was like, bro, if you get an hack, call your foul, right?

Just like, and I was on this big mother, right? Like big, like, you know the football player type dudes that be playing basketball? You know what I'm saying? Big body. So I said, if you go call your foul, call your foul as I was talking shit during the game. And I said, if you go call your foul, call your foul as he's posted me up. And I said like this. And I took a perfect charge.

And then I hit the, I did like Joey Crawford. I hit my back and I went the other way. But as I was saying that, the dude that hit this game. That's tough. That's what I'm going to do. I love the bait. into an offensive foul in the pickup. That's nasty work.

I knew I wasn't going to get it. We had already won two of the first three games, like two of the games or whatever, and I was tired. But like I did it. You know, I was petty. You know you respect to pay. I do.

I've often told you, like, I'm not going to out petty me. If I can, if I have anything to do with this. Burgo boys, bro. You're not going to out peti us, dog. I can appreciate the pettiness. Also, generally speaking, age back, like, I don't know, like,

but you don't need to be. be talking to me about no damn thousand pick up. We don't have to talk at all. Call the fucking foul and keep it moving. If you don't, I just hate a complaining-ass motherfucker, bro. What he was doing was like he would like not call the foul in the moment and be like, y'all hacking the shit out of me, did it da-da-da-da-da. Well, like, just bro, just call your fucking foul and shut up, bro, like, and take it up top

or shoot for it. Like, I don't know. Like, I just, I'm sorry. You know, New Year, new post, new basketball pickup basketball etiquette. You know. Welcome back. Welcome. Howard, you played basketball lately? Me?

That's like, that would have been my. That's like you and I are in the same both. Who, me? What? No. I think we cover this a few episodes back when we established that after blowing out my knee in a ill-advised game of pickup while being guarded by Tim Bontems, I'm not doing it again. And that was a good, more than 10 years ago. I ain't doing it at this stage.

Logan, I here we were led to believe that you had all this time off to take care of. of your new baby, congratulations again. I didn't know you had time for all this pickup, honing your skills, up in your usage rate. It's called setting a schedule, you know? All right.

How is that schedule going? We need some baby. We need some like baby road down here. Like what's the sleep schedule? What's like, were you guys like, are you co-sleepers? Were you doing the sleep training?

Are you swaddling? Are you using white? Like we need like the basic facts here, man. Ain't no co-sleeping out here, bro. That's good. Go sleeping is dog. What is co-sleeping? Co-sleeping.

Co-sleep is when you sleep in a bed with your kid. Bad idea. And then they get used to it. As infants? As baby babies? As baby baby. Yeah. No, like,

I've known people, like, as when you become a parent, I'm figuring out, one, you get into this whole new world. But, like, also, people just start telling you, it's like, you unlock a new world of information that people just start telling you shit. Like, I've heard people that, like, close sleep with their baby to, like, three or four years old. Uh-uh. No, sir.

Not me. No. But so they're sleeping nine-hour stretches. Shout out to the little homie. That's cool. That's awesome. You know what I mean? We're out here.

Ain't no games being played over here in this household. How's your diaper changing technique going? Diaper changing technique is on point. I've been changing this diaper since his ass was possible. I was one of the first. I did the first diaper change out here. Real gee shit. Another thing, though,

And I'm sure you guys can relate to this, but I was very surprised about just how casually baby shit, right? Just how just like they're in the middle of like baby conversation with you like, and just like, just like smiling and all that stuff. And then they just, then you just smell this just foreign ass fucking smell, bro. And it's just it's it's terrible, bro. And but they do it with a smile on their face. And you didn't even, you wouldn't even know what it happened unless you felt like the do do do do on your left. and you're like holding them up. It's just, it's foul, man. Real foul how they do you.

Because they're still smiling and you're like, oh, they're cute. But also, this is the foulest thing that anyone's ever done. That's what I'm trying to get used to. You know what I mean? Well, congratulations. Thank you. One last thing, though. No, go ahead. I think we might have a hooper though, because I got, we got the, we got Raj's, like, stamp of approval. I sent a picture of the follow-through very early on. And I think, I don't know. I think it might have a shot. I think he might have a shot. It was like an early, like, look, like, maybe this dude might be something. I don't know. But, like, he had the follow through. No, it was a beautiful, it was a beautiful swan neck, though.

Like, it was, it was, it was picturesque. Yeah. Was catch a present. Catching shots at rivals.com and Draft Express, like, put him on their, like, you know, prospects to watch list for like 2040 or whatever. Like, I don't know what they should. I need to go, I need to, like, he needs to go to Florida, like, when he's evade and just have like Roger Bell like straight to IMG camps you know what I mean the Roger Bell elite he needs to he needs to lock in with them no he don't need me he just needs to hop in with the fellas the fellas fellas will be gone by that point but like we just got we we have a daily like boot camp here bro you just bring them drop them off and yeah my four will just shepherd them around from station to station they'll hit the way beat him in the ship

mission just like just like literally like this is what you're doing you're part of the going to sink or swim my boy I don't care that you're four years old bro get these shots up stop fucking playing so we do it's how we're broly but no it's been cool bro it's it's been cool it's it's it's solid man i'm i'm juiced i didn't you know i i haven't listened to many much of the rules but i listened to like the first episode like back just to check in just to hear my guys and i remember rosser saying something about like first the first time they send you out of the hospital like when no manual you're like they're just like yo bye goodbye have fun they don't even like help you strap in this is to help you strap in

this is just like bye yeah you know like what the fuck that's a scary that's a scary moment that like wait wait i'm in charge of this thing now i'm like the only the only moment scarier than that for me was when we actually got home and the people that had waved goodbye to us at the hospital weren't at the house when we got there. So now that shit was clearly just me. Like all the adrenaline like, oh my God, it's like so tight. I was just a new pair. All that adrenaline leaves when you get to the crib. It just leaves. Straight fear, homie. Straight fear. Yeah. So, you know, we locked in. No, we're here. You know, we still alive. You know, still got bags under our eyes. we dug it. So how much basketball did you actually follow while you were away looking?

Because I checked in with you a couple of times just to ask, hey, you want to pop in here or there, whatever? And you're like, man, I'm out. I was saying absolutely not. Nope. All right. How much NBA have you watched? How up to speed do you think you are? I watched a good amount of basketball. And I followed it like I normally follow it, right? Like, especially there isn't much to do. Like, there's obviously a lot to do. But like, you're also, like, up off hours. And it's like, there's like, is some like like downtime so like I was on reading the blog like I'll shout out to um shout to Tom Zeller you know the newsletter kept us kept me saying you know what I mean

shout to him uh good morning it's basketball but I I did basically most of my my normal I watch a few games I was locked in on opening night and then I had takes but I just didn't have no place to put it but first though we have an announcement before we get to like yeah let's do We have a big announcement before we get some. We have some exciting news. We're getting Rajah out of the house. We're getting Rajah on a plane. Maybe.

Because the Ringer NBA show will be back at All-Star weekend. This year in San Francisco, shout out to all my homies in Frisco, Raja Howard and I will be doing a real ones live at the legendary punchline comedy club and you can join us. We'll be there on Saturday after. afternoon, February 15, pre-gaming, all the All-Star festivities. I think we're going about 2 o'clock. And you never know who else is going to stop by. We're going to discuss our biggest takeaways from the first half of the season.

And what we're looking forward to for the rest of the way, tickets go on sale this Thursday, January 9th, 10 a.m. Pacific time. More information will be available at the ringer.com slash events. That is the ringer.com slash events. Again, we'll be live at the Punchline, San Francisco. on February 15th, and you can get tickets beginning this Thursday, January 9th at 10 a.m. Pacific time. Wow, there's not an East Coast bias. That's crazy. I'm really happy about that. Get more information at the ringer.com slash events. Hope to see you there. Raj is going to make his Piedmont adjacent return, apparently. He's going to be in the Bay Area

for the first time and a very long time. The prodigal son Howard Beck is returning to the Bay Area. this is Clips first time. He's coming on with us. Can't Waits. Real West Coast. The propaganda has always lived on, the Bay Area propaganda has always lived on this show, much to Roger's chagrin. But it will live in person at the punchline.

Roger, you're going to love the punchline. I know, like, you're a fan of comedy, right? I know you're a comedy right. Yeah, well, I mean, make sure when you guys zoom me into the thing that, like, you show me the fans and you show me the whole theater, dude, just make sure I get a good three, six. If I have to fly down to Florida to pick you up and throw you on the plane myself. I'm there.

I'm there, I'm there, baby. You're going to need Cliff to help you. I think he's big ass up. I might have to bring some muscle with me. I might need to listen, folks. Where did I play? I played. So the last time I was in San Francisco, I got to play the Olympic Club.

Yeah. That's a golf course, right? Like the Olympic club, like right? And then there was the other one called like Hancock Park or something like that. Is that another one? No, it's some kind of park. That kind of park is that way? No, no, no, no.

It's like a, I think they had played like a U.S. Open or something at that bad boy. I played two really nice golf courses there, man. So like, yeah, I like, I'll be out of San Francisco. I can make. Yeah, what? Come on, man. I think I swear. Come to Cali.

Come to Cali. You know what I mean? This is a big deal for me and Logan for like Bay Area guys. Like growing up, like you just hear commercials on radio for the punchline all the time. This is like legendary comedy club. And so I don't think I even ever been there. It's like the seller in New York. It's like the,

comedy club in LA, but it's our version. Like, everybody has gone through there. It's like, it's a legendary venue. This is awesome. Can't wait. Can't wait. Hopefully, Roger gets there on time. No? Hashtag get Roger there on time. Hashtag get Roger to the bay.

Hashtag Bay propaganda. Also, hashtag, Roger bring a motherfucking jacket because it is going to be colder than he thinks. No, no, no, no. I like my winter wear. Now, I might, we have a schedule? Like, we'll talk. Do we have an itinerary or is our, is our only? are we just doing the show?

Or do we have a whole-star it? I mean, if you want to pull up a day early and come up to, you know, chill, like maybe on a Thursdays, I don't know. But you don't like to do that. So I don't know. It's your call, Raja. Yeah, I probably passed. Spotify is paying for it.

So it's your call when you want to come. Oh. Three of us have never actually been in the same place at the same time. So that's something. I've only met Raja Bell one time. And it was a legendary moment. That's what he became my guy. That day in Vegas.

That's when he became my guy. What a strange day. Right? It was, though, wasn't it? I mean, it was a good time, but it was a strange. You became my guy when we both realized we were washed at that dinner in Las Vegas and Mammafuku. And the party was still going. And me and Rajah locked eyes like, I think I want to get some sleep right now.

Let's go. Let's get it. We're out of here. And I was like, yep, there we go. It was like 10 o'clock. It was ridiculous. It was so early for Vegas. I got a sound amount of sleep that night.

But anyways, hello Howard. Sorry about that. Back to the first segment. We don't do segments. We just flow. It's vibes. Exactly. It's all vibes.

It's a 100% vibes podcast. So I was curious to think, I was thinking about this, like how closely did Logan actually follow the NBA during paternity leave? Because like babies require a lot of attention in time. Logan insists that he was actually watching some games, reading Tom Ziller's morning blog. That's a great way to keep up. I don't know. I needed to know for sure. So I came up with some questions, Logan.

I didn't tell you I was doing this. I just came up with a quiz. I think it's pretty easy. I think you're going to be fine. Well, let's just see. Let's just see. All right, first up, two teams this season have had double-digit winning streaks. Which two teams and how many games?

This one should be. Okay, the Cavs and Thunder. The Thunder are on the winning streak right now. I don't know. I forgot how long the Cavs was, but I think the thunder is like 15 right now. Thunder is at 15 and counting. Cleveland's at 15 and counting.

You see me? You see me? All right, but what's the next longest winning streak and by who? I would have done that even if I'm saying, wait. I'm watching. I don't know that shit. It's a trick question.

It's also Cleveland. They had a previous 10 game. Excuse me. So that wasn't what I was referencing. Clever's a 10 now. They had 15 before. So that wasn't what I was referencing. The earlier Cleveland,

earlier Cleveland Street. One question in and I've already fucked it up. One of one, I'm taking it. I'm going to take that. I'm going to take that. You got that one. You got that one. All right.

Which team has the longest losing streak in how many games? Not active, just so far this season, the longest losing. Oh, Washington. At how many games? I'm going to say like 15. 16. Pretty close. They have sucked.

It sucked. I watched them. It was funny because I remember. I watched one of their wins, which was wild. I watched the end of the Hawks' Wizards game when Jordan Pool had a Jordan pool game. He's had like two. One has been in the loss, which I can relate to as a Logan Murdoch game and pickup, always usually in and a possible.

But then I remember thinking, like, he hit like a step back on the Hawks. And I was like, are the Wizards going to like win 25 games this year? No, probably not. down probably three other teams have had double-digit losing streaks name them uh look uh don't know don't look it up no i'm not looking it up all right a different from the okay so is it the uh pelicans yes at 11 at 11 um one other team also had an 11 game losings um that other pelican All right, the other double-digit losing streaks belong to Toronto at 11 and Charlotte at 10 and counting.

That is active right now. Yeah, I wasn't going to watch either of those teams. I'm sorry. There's no reason to. I'm not going to watch that. I don't know regrets at all. Yeah. Check back in October on those guys.

Who won? This is the easiest one. Who won the 2024 NBA Cup? And who did they beat? The Milwaukee Bucks won the Cup. and over the thunder because the thunder didn't even try. By the way, NBA Cup is gone to shit. You know, like, why would they do the Sunday Tuesday back?

Why would they do the Sunday Tuesday thing, bro? They just cook. I have a lot of NBA takes. I'm sure we'll get to it. It was Saturday Tuesday. Why would you do that? Thursday, Thursday is perfect. I don't get why they did that.

The NBA continues to shoot itself in the foot with new ideas. Ridic. Anyways, we'll get to that later. Speaking of which, what was different about the buck's celebration that night? They didn't celebrate because Darwin Ham had won the previous year and pooped on everybody's parade and said it really don't mean nothing. Nicely done. Yeah, no champagne. They left the champagne corked.

They left the beer cans unopened. Which player this season has been fined multiple times for various off-court infractions? to the tune of $135,000 combined. Roger Bell. Wait, no, no, it's not old sex. Who is God fine for multiple on court and frank? Off court. Off court?

That would be Anthony Edwards. Yeah, racking a month. Yeah, man. Find 75,000 for public criticism of officiating and using profanity. 25,000 for comments after a win that was also, I think, officiating related. 35,000 for making an obscene gesture on the court. Free and crissing and stomping a lot.

Jesus. Jesus. It's free, not from the punishment, free and from the Timberwolves. It's time to, it's time to. There's a hot take. Free up to come back to it. Jesus, it's been terrible.

It's been terrible to, like, watch the Timberwolves. Like, I watched them play against the pistons a few weeks. It was it a week ago when he had 53 and it was just like it was a hard 53. It was like one of those like Kobe on a sucky-ass Lakers team. The 53 were like he's carrying them and everyone's sad and you know they're going to lose the whole time. But it's the game you should turn off, but you don't. It's too many of those games from Ant and the Timberwolves dark.

Sorry. Who's played more games? Joel Embeded or Chris Middleton? Chris Middleton. It's Embededed 13 to 12. That's bullshit. That was a tough one. That's a tough one. That is a good one. That is a good one. I don't want to want to do Olympic play back before. I saw him fucking, I saw him. I saw him play recently and it's just terrible, bro. He's doing the thing where he does the, the rap through shot. Like he's 6'1. It's... Everything looks really mechanical. He just doesn't have any fluidity to his game anymore because the knee and the brace and all that stuff. It just... And then the vibes are just bad.

Rajah, sorry, Cliff, who wore a Sixers shirt today. I'm surprised. Like, you should just be going full-fledging your Eagles. Don't get, don't get Cliff going right now. Cliff said they were back, didn't he? Cliff came on here and ranted that they were back. It's bullshit. That's bullshit.

I got ahead of myself, man. I should never said that. I watch a game. I watched Bradley Bill come off the bench last night, absolutely torsious sixers. I'm like, damn, dog. Yabu Sele at the five. It's not looking too good right now. But, hey, man.

We'll bounce back. Gillie and the birds, though. Gilly's out there, like, he's... He's a one-man wrecking group, bro. Gilly's out here, one-man, bro. Just a one-man content machine, bro. Real talk. Out here.

The neighbors were involved. I was taking notes and I was like, should I, like, do some of Gilly stuff to, like, promote real ones? And then I was like, no, I'm not Gilly, bro. I'm not, I'm not... No, no. I'm not going to go in the middle of West Oakland tell him about fucking. Yo, let's fire.

Let's like real ones out here. No, we're not doing. It's not that. I got a couple more here. All right. A few weeks ago, Timbontemps released his first MVP straw poll. Who's leading it? Sorry, I didn't not look at that.

But I'm going to say SGA is my name. Is that the answer? Yokic is leading the poll. Can you name who is behind him in order? I'm going to say that I did not read that poll. That of Tim Bontent. You could probably guess these. five anyway. Okay. Some sort of order, SGA. Yes. Who up? Yannis? Of course, yeah. Janice.

Tatum? Stop, Roger. I appreciate. Sorry. Tatum and I don't know, bro. Raj is letting Logan copy. But I wouldn't say it's Yokers, bro. Let's do it. That's my brother. It went Yokit Shea, Yonis, Tatum, Luca. How about sixth place? Bonus, bonus question. Who finished sixth? Even Raj doesn't know that one.

LeBron? Donovan Mitchell. I was going to say Donovan Mitchell. I definitely was going to say Don't know. I'm going to say this, though. I still don't know if I'm going to be the kill joint way here. I still don't know if I believe the cabs reps. I'm sorry.

Like I still don't know if I do. And this is like the hot tape. But it's May. It's May wraps. They need to prove in May. Not right now. I think they're great right now, obviously. but I just, I don't know.

Like, if you were to put them against Boston, no one, this isn't like the fucking Atlanta Hawks back when they like won 60 games and got torched by LeBron. Like, these guys are in a 70 win pace. I understand. I understand. I've also seen them in the playoffs. They're winning over 80% of their.

I understand. And I'm about to get killed for this. I'm just, I, but I'm strictly doing it for like May and June. I got to see May and June. That's fair. And I don't even know that's a hot take. It's not a high take. I got to see May and June.

They're great right now. I don't want to face them on a Tuesday night. But let's see what happened. I'm just saying this, bro, like, here's another thing, man. Here's another thing, bro. And I don't know what this is. But I feel like Yolkich is not getting the slander that like this is that Rogers is going to, I'm speaking Roger's language now. Russ, I mean, he's not getting the same slander that Russ got 16, 17, when his team wasn't as good.

But he was an MVP. But there was a lot of Russ hate, even though he was getting stats and getting all these things that his team was hovering around. 500 as like Yokch is like it's just dead silent it's like oh man we need more we need more help for Yokic even though he's putting up he's putting up generational numbers but they're not as good as the team should suggest to be but I didn't I didn't hear the ruckett I didn't hear the slander that I was hearing for back when Russ was doing the same shit that's what I'm saying I know I'm speaking I know I'm speaking I know I'm talking but like everybody right in but everybody loves yokeets and he is slander proof at this point I don't know

what the reason is, I'm just saying what I see. Nope, nope, I'm not taking it. You came right out to try to put a battery in my back. I'm not doing it. But you feel me though. I'm not. Oh, do I feel you? But you feel me though.

But you feel me though. Yes, we feel you. And in fairness, in fairness, Janus is a 12, 12 and 11 too. So I'm not like, I'm not saying. I'm just, I was asking the question at what point. But when you talk about, yo, it's always about the stats, right? It's always about this is a generational stats for a generational being. Yeah.

No, there's, I have like 17. separate rants I could go on right now, but I'm not going to derail us on this. I will just say that Yokic, more than any other player in the analytics era, has some people just losing their fucking minds because of the analytics, because of the advanced stats, and because of the raw stats too. And they're all awesome, but there are, I think we've lost the plot when it comes to wins and losses. But Russ is the one who broke that streak, by the way. He set the, or the voters set the streak. It's not Russ's fault. The voters broke the streak when they gave it to Russ. when they finished sixth or whatever.

And that set the precedent then to give it to Yokits in years where the nuggets were not a clear contender. You know me. I'm a stickler about the present. But Russ still gets that slander about, he still does to this day. Like there's a lot of people, especially considering the fact that back then, Jim, Dames Harding got the people's MVP or the players MVP, whatever you want to call it. I voted for Hardin that year. Right.

I get it. And he should have got it, frankly. See, there we go. Because wins matter. Wins matter. I'm consistent on this. What was OTC? By the way, the number 20.

this, but I don't feel like, I don't feel like the NBA community is consistent on. No, they're not. They're not. And that's exactly my point. Like, I disagreed on the rest of year. I disagreed on one of the Yokich years. I'm consistent with the fact that I think you've got to be on a contending type team. We're pretty damn close. The Nuggets right now, by the way, have kind of even themselves out. They're 20 and 14. They're top four in the West. They're only like two and a half back of second place. So like, like the nuggets are legit right now, but I voted for SGA in the in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the ball ands poll. And not, and not Yoke. So I am not guilty of that particular issue. All right, two more.

Who currently leads All-Star voting among Eastern Conference Guards? First returns came out last week. We'll get the second batch this Thursday in the first returns. Who was leading all vote getters among Eastern Conference guards? Was it lamello? No, limelow. It was so gross. That's so gross.

947,000 votes. What a mockery of the thing? What a mockery of votes, bro. 200,000. 200,000 votes ahead of Donovan Mitchell and Dame Miller. Almost double Jalen Brunson's total. I'm about to start speaking in Razz's language. I think I got like five years older and older during this fucking break.

But like, I'm so sick and I'm not, I'm fucking, I'm just saying I'm getting older. I am so sick of seeing like Lamello highlights in a game that they lost by 20. I'm so sick of it. Like, we have turned into a highlights like. driven-ass, like sport with the NBA. Like, oh, man, you go criss crazy fucking move by Lamello and they're down 20. Like, when does he ever want anything? I'm sorry.

Like, I want, he's a very talented player, but what does he want anything? Why are we doing this? He's going to finish his career with like- recipes are lost. They're being lost right now. He's going to finish his career. He's going to finish his career someday with zero playoff series wins. And three years after he retires, we're going to have people posting Lamello

ball was a problem. People forget La Mello Ball was a problem. No, best case scenario, I think, though, for Lamello ball at this point, I think he will be, he will be a six man on a contender, and he might win a, he might win a playoff series. But that's it, but he has to get, but he has to, that's, he got a free himself. You got to free himself. Listen, I, like, he's, he's, he's fun to watch. I get it. He's got a following, and he's had a following since he was, like, 14 years old or whatever, but the fact that he's got, like, almost double the amount of votes as Jalen Brunson. Like, by the way, Where are Knicks fans?

Knicks fans. Like, don't complain if Jalen Brunson doesn't make the All-Star game. But this is what we promote as a league, though, Howard. This is what we promote as a league. We promote this stuff. We don't promote, like,

we don't promote. And this is another thing that I'm, because I was watching a lot of NFL, you know, and shout out to the Raiders for Swindon to one of top three pick in a draft of me. But anyway, I'm watching a lot of, like, NFL, right? And the way that they present the game

versus how the NBA presents the game is astounding. Like, it is just, it's ridiculous. Like, there's no, like this is why this player is good. It's like, no, man, this dude just scored 40 and in a 30 point loss. So this dude just did this. You wouldn't believe this handle. Like, it's crazy.

And I think that's one of the reasons why. And that's what a lot of the people that are like fans, fans are seen. And they're not looking at what wins or losses of the traditional sense. They're looking at like, oh, man, this tape is crazy. Like, see this movie made. So in that reason, I'm not really surprised at Lamello is like a leader in the fan returns because that's what it's. is shown to us. It's not the winning.

It's the, it's the highlight. You feel me, Roger? I'm not taking the bait. I know what you want. I'm not. What you film you though?

Do you film you? I'm doing it now, but I'm the one that's doing it now. Our whole basketball culture is based on a highlight and the aesthetics and, and the consumable. Like,

um, and it's not, it's, it's just, you've lost the, you've lost the, you've lost the, real ones no but like a lot don't a lot of people and it's not just it's not just it's not just that

it's not just the highlight though raja it's also just like the reason like when we talk about the NBA we talk about everything that's not happening on the court it's all innuendo like the games are never promoted like actually promoted it is oh my god is this person going to leave oh, do you know this beef with this person? Or like this, it's never like, oh, man, this was a great stack action, you know? And I think the listening public, like, once the, or the listening public and the viewing public, like, once more of them from the thing. They don't promote the game.

They promote the bullshit more. And in any other sport, I think. Well, then we're having two different conversations. Like, that could be true. But what I'm, what I'm ranting on usually is just the nuances and the things that help you win games that aren't celebrated. And really, I mean, I don't know that they've ever been celebrated. I lumped that all that in bullshit, though.

Huh? I lumped all that in bullshit. Yeah, and it's all good. But like, but in today's, like, we just celebrate the, the crazy handle or the wild shot or the crazy play that's going to get a million clicks way more than, than I feel like we used to. And part of it's because it's all consumable on the social media and stuff like that and everything's trying to go viral. But like, I mean, we always loved a good dunk and some cool shit.

But man, we like good basketball too in a way that some still do. But a lot are just interested in what you're talking. It's a thing. All right. This is actually a great segue into the final question. We turn into the old ones, didn't we? The really old ones. Real old ones.

This is a great segue, though, the last question. which real ones guest caused Raja to absolutely nerd out on like techniques and drills and shit for like 10 straight minutes. It was like 10 straight minutes of just Raja and the guest just going granular. The homie, J. Kyle, man. Ah, nicely done. God.

That was correct. Jake Al man, the God. Yeah, I think I'm going on with him next week, I think. Yes, please do. The streets need that conversation. That was fantastic. It was awesome. We had, I mean, we had some really fun guess.

And, like, Jamal Crawford last week was great. Shane Badiye, Danny Green. Everybody we've had on has been a blast. But I have never quite seen Rajah nerd out the way that he did with Jay Kahneman. Hey, but real talk. And that's fair. It was Jamal, all of them were great. But Jamal's piece of advice, like, I already put that into effect.

I talked to Ty's coach. And we were having a conversation the other day. And I was like, yo, man, you know, what do you think about only making him, like, when you guys are practicing score out of like give him give him days where he can only do certain things and middy was one of them and he agreed he was like i love it we're like so i took that from jamaal we put that in already by the way uh somebody named danny go uh daniel i can't pronounce the rest of the last name but he goes by danny go on blue sky hit me yesterday to say please that rajah know that us listeners really enjoyed the coaching talk between him and jemal cropper so i wanted to pass that

alone. Oh, thanks, Danny. Listeners love it. Yeah. Logan, you passed the test. I didn't grade it. Okay. Let's just say I did a good job. I don't... Logan, I was going to say, you're being modest there. You did an excellent job.

That was great, thanks, buddy. Yeah, I thought you were really rolling there for a while. Man, listen, I take my shit seriously. What, what part tell us? I'm a professional. I'm a motherfucking professional. Perk. Oh, man. Okay, so I guess let's take a quick break and talk about some other shit.

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Got a gambling problem? Call 1-800-gambler or visit RGELP.com. Call 1-888-889-77777. Or visit CCP, G.org backslash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling help line, MA.org or call 1-800-3275-0-0 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts, or call 18778 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y in New York. I might swerp in that corner, whoa.

Oh, don't type because I'll tweak it. I let go. And I heard that she want to show, whoa. Yo, bro. Hey, yo, Cliff, bro. I don't know if I should tell you this. I'm fake weight in bears. But, yo, that new jello ball slaps.

Jesus. Yo, I couldn't hear, yo, everywhere I went, yo, group chats, outside, down the street. It's brick outside. I'm on the East Coast. You know, I'm in Philly right now.

It's brick outside. bro, I've been hearing this shit everywhere. Bro, people mess. Bro, we're all, no, no, no, bro. We need Juvie on the, we need Jovey on the, uh, we need Jovey on the, uh, we need Jovey on the remix and we need Manny Fresh doing it, it's time. It's fire. It's fire.

Okay, all right. Everybody's saying is bring it back to nine, nine to two thousands. Yeah, it already brought it back. Wait. On the serious note, though, who else need to be featured on this, yo? No one else. Just what I just said. Juvie on the remix.

You know, you know what? And then Mani Fresh. produced it. They need to get the entire hot boys. They need to get Wayne on there too. We'll see. And we are back. I'm sorry, bro. We probably going to have to pour one out for

Rogers Phoenix, son. It's tough. It's tough. I mean, it's tough. It is what it is. Go from new ownership syndrome with Matt Ischpia out here trading every pick under the sun, unintended, for Kevin Durant.

And then trading every other pick that he has for Bradley Bill with a no trade clause and expected shit to be good, right? And now, like, I know I made the argument last year, and I heard that Raja, like, had high hopes for his Phoenix Sunday. I, I

had hopes that, like, hey, maybe with a full training camp, maybe they'll be good. I think it might work, right? But now there is some stuff going on in Phoenix, where the vibes are off, where

people are dissecting now that KD and Devin Booker are working out and they're just shading Bradley Bill. That's what's going on on the socials right now. And they're not all working out together. It's being a kumbaya. And then they put Bradley Bill to the bench. Now he's in trade rumors. But hey, he has no trade clause, which is wild to consider. I don't know why the Washington Wizards would ever give him a no trade clause.

They gave him over $200 million. But now he is coming off the bench. He has scored 25. So he says that he has not heard anything from the team involving trade rumors. But, quote, if so, I need to be addressed because I hold the cards. Until I'm addressed, if somebody says something different, then I'll be a son. I mean, that is the truth. But that is wild coming from Bradleyville, who has done like little to nothing outside of April in the NBA.

Passed. Yeah. I mean. But like what do we go from here, right? Because he's right. Like you can't do anything. You can't do anything unless he okays it. He was literally correct.

He was accurate. He was literally correct. But the sons, I'm like, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it, but you didn't have to make this trade. And now you're, this was always going to be the result if things went bad. Now, what do you do from here? I don't have an answer for that. This is, I, uh, Yeah, I don't know.

You try to get him to where if you really, it's really that bad, then you try to get him somewhere where he wants to go. What that gets you back in return, all the moving pieces, so on and so forth. I have no idea, but it's literally your only option.

So I don't know what you do. But I feel like the jury is still out. I mean, the jury is not still out. We know what Bradley Bill is, like his name is his name. We know what is going on here. What team is going to bite on that? Because he's still going to have the no trade clause

unless I guess they might be able to negotiate. I don't know how much is left on the contract? What's the contract at this point? I think like four years. It's like it's another three years at really high numbers. I mean, I'll look it up while we're talking, but it's it's ridiculous. And I'm not sure for sure, but like can he like can a team negotiate? Is he going to have that no trade calls no matter where he goes? Yes. Yes. So like he's hard. It goes with him unless he waives it. He has to waive it to make any trade at all. He could also choose to waive it permanently, but there's no reason for him to do that. Yeah, why would you?

Right. I wouldn't do that. And so the next team ends up with the same problem of like not being able to move him or having it be very difficult. He's making 50 million this year, 53 million next season, and then one more year, a player option, which he will absolutely take. Yeah. Because he's never getting this in free agency.

His player option in 26, 27 is for $57 million. So he'll be a son until then. Yeah. They'll be built. They'll be, when Devin Booker and Kevin Noren are going on, they're going to be, building around Bradley Bill. Yeah. No one's trading.

I mean, no one's trading for the, like the numberal, like the value of the contract, let alone the no trade. No trade clause. I just, come on. The Washington Wizard's just strike again, right? Like, well, I don't even know why this is even a thing. But like, with that being said, like, there's clearly bad buys with the Sons. He's not going anywhere.

How do you mitigate the situation? I don't know how you do that. Howard. I was talking to somebody. I was talking to somebody whose team played the Sons, let's just say semi-recently. And I was like, is this about like, is this personnel? Is it vibes? Is it chemistry?

Like, what is it? And it's just like, basically like the response, the answer was basically just like, you can just see everything is fucked up. And like this team is just like, they're not, they don't seem to be playing for each other or playing hard. It's like the impression that this person got is that this thing is not salvageable. And the Bradley Beal thing is interesting, too, because, you know, like this theory that they benched him to make him want out is kind of strange. Like, if you want to, like, he's got the no trade clause.

So if you really want to move him and you need his cooperation anyway, why are you trying to alienate him first or make him uncomfortable? Like, I'm taking that as a straight basketball move, not as some sort of Machiavellian plot to get him to ask for a trade. But even then, like, the heat, everything goes back to the heat and Jimmy Butler, right? Like the Heat are not trading Jimmy Butler for Bradley Beal. And that's the only way he gets to Phoenix. There is buzz around the league that the Phoenix thing. It's real in the sense that I think the sons want him. And it's real in the sense I think that Jimmy would love to go there.

It's not real in the sense that there's no two-way trade that can be done without Beal. And there's no way that the heater are doing a deal for Beal. So it becomes, is there a third team? Is there a team with Cap room that could just absorb Beal and some trade assets from somebody? and it's probably not like the sons have no draft assets the trade really so can you create a multi-team trade where Beal lands in like Detroit or Utah or somewhere where they're just like they don't care whether they win or not

what is Bradley Beal want though like exactly and then Beal has to still welcome that you create this multi-team trade to get him to a team with cap room that doesn't mind does he want to be the guy does he want to actually win does he want to like I know. I just feel like when he came there was like, all this talk of sacrifice and all these things. And that's the thing that happens a lot in sports, right? Like when you talk on,

when you talk in the press conference, I've been watching a lot of wire, Rajah. I'm just going to make a lot of wire reference. The dope on the table press conferences before, when everybody just the welcomed dope on the table press conferences every time we see, they always talk about sacrifice and all these things. But it takes a real, like,

Hooper and a real teammate to actually win this time for sacrifice to actually go and do it. Like there's a world also where Bradley Bill just goes to the bench. Like, I'm just going to kick ass off the bench. And he did it on his play against Cliff Sixth. Sorry, buddy. But like, he did it with his play. But like, that could have been a galvanizing moment in my mind. If, like, you go for 25, like, I'm about to do this.

We're about to, we're about to, it's a great win. We're about to keep this going. I'm cool. We get off the bench. It means being a winner. But, like, I don't think Bradley Bill, actually knows what it takes to do that because it's actually suggested it doesn't well it's such a huge it's a huge topic and there's a lot that goes into it because we're we're placing all blame on

bradley beale right now right and and like there's a lot that goes into that Logan there's a lot that goes in there's a lot in between me standing at a press conference saying all the right things and let's let's let's just say for argument's sake i really genuinely mean that and I'm not just front and forward the press conference, right? Like I have every intention, you know, on living these wraps. And then fast forwarding to now and everything has fallen apart. And I look like I never wanted to live those raps in the first place and it was all bullshit. There's a lot that goes into that.

There's a lot that goes into the time in between that. From just an organizational standpoint, like a clarity of vision and articulation of that vision, the communication between the stars, the front office, ownership. agents, the day-to-day, just work environment, personalities, how they work together, whether or not you start to faction off like in the little clicks when you're on roachers. There's so much that goes into like having a player feel a certain kind of way about his role that it's hard to point a finger. You know what I mean?

It just is. And I'm not saying we are clearly where we are, but I don't know. To shoot Bradson bill, to shoot Brad some bail, do what I did. To shoot him some bail, like, I don't think Phoenix's infrastructure is the type of infrastructure to be able to absorb that type of trade. And I think we kind of knew that in the back of our minds like when the trade happened because Devin Booker like kind of needs an alpha by his side to. to win. Like, we've seen that. I mean, not to win, but like, he needs that in order to be

successful. We've seen that with Chris Paul. That's the most winning he has done alongside Chris Paul and alpha, right? And Katie is kind of the same way. And even if this is quote unquote Devin Booker's team, he's still kind of like, he takes a backseat to Kevin, but Kevin isn't going to be this alpha person. Like, we've seen that throughout this time. And so that constitutes a locker room that isn't like equipped to be able to define roles because both like both of the superstars are like well like here you go like there you go like they're just very passive in that way when it comes to the leaders so I just think like that's where I'm just like this is going to be a tough a tough thing because there's not you need you need a good balance of strong personalities

and other personalities and they just don't have that right now I don't have that mix but they have superstars, but they, superstar ability, but they don't have the other side of that. Look, this, I mean, we've had this conversation on here before. I've had this, I've had this conversation.

I've had this conversation with, with head coaches before. I've heard the conversation on other networks and whatnot before. In regards to like superstars and, and, and, they're, they're,

and leadership qualities being, you know, equal to each other to some degree. And even if you are a leader, like I believe Kevin Durant to be a leader in his own way. But he's not, I don't know that he's the vocal guy. I don't know that he's the backbone of your locker room type of guy. Now, he's the guy to pull you aside, right? He's the guy that's like, yo, come here, man, let me holler at you real quick on the low. This isn't throwing shade at all. No.

This is like different people lead in different ways. But when you get a mix of personalities that are that big guys that are that accomplished individually, you have to find a guy. I've spoken about this before that does have the personality. KD can be your leader. He can be a leader. If he does it quiet, great. But you're going to have to have someone that has the personality in that locker room that is kind of, you know, magnetic and is able to, you know, kind of tether.

everybody together and get people, you know, to understand and reach across those, you know, lines of the different little groups that we have going on. And, and I just don't see that in Phoenix. And that's why I said, like, there's so much in between the press conference and now that it's really hard for me to point to exactly where all of this shit went wrong. And it's not just on the court. So, so like on the court, we could do that. But off the court, it wouldn't be fair to me to just throw all of it on Bradley Beal because I don't, I don't know. And a lot had to go wrong. And I think another thing I'm going to throw this to Howard, like, I think that's the other thing that we see would like be the new owner syndrome, like to call it, right? And Matt Isbia, like, wants to make a splash, right?

Like, wants to do all these things. He wants to settle scores, win a chip, right? Like, he wants to glory fast. But there's, I think this is a lesson. Like, there is something to be said about this. Because, like, he did, was the ink. I don't even know if the ink was even dry on his ownership. when he made the deal for KD.

I feel like there should have been at least like, let's have a few beatings. Let's see what our team is and what this team actually needs as opposed to like, let's go get a big fish. You know? Like, let's figure out like what we need. And this is going to be a very hard lesson for Matt Isfeyer because it's going to take a minute for him to rebuild this

short of like trading Katie and Devon and then building the team. around Bradleyville. It should be a closed that deal to take ownership of the Sons. It was like a day, two days or whatever before they made the trade for game. Because that deal was already on the table from because they were trying to, they were going to, before the season, the sons and the, before the 22, 23 season, the sons and the Sons and the Nets were talking.

And then they table talked. But right. But it wasn't happening under Sarver's ownership, right? It wasn't going to happen until the sale happened. So here's a fun sliding doors moment in the NBA. what if Ishpia's deal got held up just another couple days longer and he doesn't take control until after the trade deadline? Because Durant had asked out, like, do the net send him somewhere else just to get that headache removed because he had made the trade demand? And Kyrie's was, you know, was that same week.

But Ishbeah did take control just in time, did make a very rash, very expensive trade and then doubled down, as you mentioned with the Beal trade. And yeah, here they are. Like I, it's, it's definitely a good lesson, um, for owners. Not that, not that the next billionaire owner who comes in swaggering thinking they know basketball and they know everything because they're a titan of industry and some other in real estate or, you know, hedge funds or whatever, they, they walk in on day one thinking they know it all. And, you know, from all accounts, I've heard plenty of other good things about Matt Eshpia, but like, it was.

clear from the moment he did it that this was very rash and very risky. And I admired it on some level. Like, I admire the belief and the boldness, the aggression, just go get KD, one of the greatest players of all time. Cool. But the Beal trade they never needed to make. The Beal trade was worse. I think the bill trade was worse. I can talk myself into getting Kevin Durant all day long. Like, fuck Kevin Durant. But to get Bradley Beal, who, because also there's another thing, and I don't want to like harp on the Bradley Bill too much here, but like, I think with a guy like Bradley Bill, there was going, him going on a contender,

there was going to be a learning curve that I don't think a lot of people appreciated to play on it consistently good at the next level. There was going to be a learning curve. Well, you have to play consistently. Yeah, but you have to play consistently to even have that, right? And to build that chemistry. He's missed 10 out of 34 games so far this season. He missed a ton last season because he always misses games, and you knew that going in.

You knew he was expensive. You know he had a no trade clause, and you know that he gets hurt a lot. And that he's never really been part of a winning program at a high level. So, like, they could have been, Chris Paul was the centerpiece of that deal along with a bunch of picks. They could have just broken up Chris Paul into multiple other pieces to give you depth around Durant and Booker. And instead, they went on all in on Beal and then left themselves really handicapped in terms of their ability to get role guys. And that's been the problem ever since.

And here they are. By the way, fun footnote, not fun for Rajabelle or Suns fans. As of right now, he's fine. He's fine. As of right now, at 16 and 18, the sons are slotted ninth in the lottery odds and the draft order. And that pick goes to Houston. So. It's nasty business, bro. Nasty business. Not great. Although they're only slightly better off than the six. Sixers who are, Raj's other old team, who have the eighth best lottery odds, eighth in the draft order, but that picks going to Oklahoma. So. Title contenders, baby. Yes, sir.

Oops. I can't wait to talk about the Sixers and the backstress of this season. Hold on. Let me ask a question, though, because I don't have anyone who is, I don't pick some shit. Howard, are there any circumstances, are there any circumstances? Could they get good enough odds in the lottery that? Those, what are they protected by? I think these are unprotected.

I think both these picks that I just mentioned, Suns, N6ers are unprotected. Wow. So that's according to, I'm looking at Tankathon. Love Tankathon. But they do not show the little lock next to either of those. The lock is usually if something's protected.

That little symbol is not next to either of those. So I believe those are fully. I got one word for that. Yuck. Um, all right, Cliff. Let's,

let's get to a mail bag before we get out of here. This has been a great. This has been a great show. God. Jeez. I've missed you guys so much. I've been practicing the mirror and shit. It's been great.

Hi. What are that real? I can't win. Awesome. Can't fucking work. All right. Let me get to this first mailback. Let's see here.

Hello, team. As always, love the podcast. Crazy fan of you guys and the game of basketball. My question pertains more to Raja as a former hooper and seen it myself, small college. Every team seems to have that bench player that never sees game time play. but yeah, bust first team's ass at practice each day. Whether it's because they aren't gamers or they just never get the shot for whatever reason due to coaching, et cetera. Raja, do any players come to mind that you feel you played with that fits that criteria?

I feel like there are a select few of absolute dogs secretly on the benches of these NBA teams that could really make it somewhere else and didn't know if that was true. Thanks for the time. Chris from Omaha, Nebraska. Is he basically asking like, dude that, I mean, the criteria was. cats they could come in and get an opportunity and be really good players they just didn't yeah yeah exactly literally exactly um yeah who are some i mean yeah i mean that's always going to be the case because it's a numbers game right and and and i'm trying to think um roster by roster of cats like that that philly team and these are guys that they probably got opportunities to some degree but maybe not like a full see the thing about

The thing about the NBA, sorry, to, like, go off on a little tangent. Like, you might see guys sometimes, but to really get comfortable, you've got to get consistent, like, minutes for a guy to really work. You know what I mean? Like, you have to, you might see some flashes and stuff, but you got to find some consistency in playing for some of these guys to really, like, hit their stride and become, like, a name that another ball club might like. Rodney Buford was a really good player.

Rodney Buford. Let's go. Rodney Buford. Rodney Buford was me. Like, Rodney Buford could, he was talented, man. He could play. Some of these guys, I don't want to disrespect dudes because they had good careers and stuff like that. But, like, I'm trying to think.

Where did I go next? You caught George Lynch, too, who was out here bawling for y'all. Yeah, but George Lynch was, George Lynch was a full career. I'm thinking of dudes that like that uh sorry forgive me man I'm trying to go roster um you know I I don't have too many of those dudes I have guys that like like there was a young kid Kirk Snyder that was drafted by Utah that was really really talented like big physical mean

skill set but it was just a little off um I think I think he I think he wound up in some legal trouble after he was out of the NBA. And, like, that's no one's fault in terms of, like, the organization, right? But he just didn't turn into what, like, I thought he could become if everything had went right for him. There's some of those. You know, I'm trying to think of, like, of teams, man. Like, no, I don't know.

That happened to me more in college, I think, where guys were sitting around. It happened to me in workouts. I have a bunch of dudes who probably should have gotten shot. shots in the NBA. Like when you'd see them at free agent camps and stuff like that and you'd go into these a lot where, you know, I talked about the meat market last episode. Like, you know, let's say San Antonio, Detroit, we'd all get done with the CBA, right? And when the CBA was over, we'd train and shit.

And then as the NBA ended, you'd get a call to go work out for Detroit. When you got to Detroit, it would be like 30 dudes. And you'd all be CBA or IBA or whatever BA guys, right? And so you basically, over the course of two days, go through a bunch of drill work and a bunch of hooping. And you would beat the shit out of each other in hopes that one or two of you might get a callback to go to like summer league with them or training camp or something like that. And at those different meat market type of things,

there were a lot of guys that would fall into that category. Dudes that were better players than me. And sometimes wouldn't get that call back. But in a lot of instances, it was because they were targeting certain skill sets because it was going to be a very limited role on the team you were trying out for. And those dudes were probably sometimes just too good for their own good, which is a term I like to use a lot, right? That's so interesting you said that. I was about to say, like, it also comes down to like, one, there's a lot of politics in this as well and not even like bad politics, right? Like such and such a position just has like a massive deal in a salary slot, right?

And they're going to prioritize that person because they paid them $20 million, even if you're better than them or not. It doesn't matter. But another thing that you touched on is, like, being too good for your own good. Remember, we had Juan Tzano Anderson on a few years back, Raja. And he said something really interesting about, like, when he was trying out for the Warriors. And all his homies was like, back home was like, bro, you only had like four points today. He was like, because I was on the floor with Steph fucking Curry, like, I'm going to pass him. the ball. A lot of people, a lot of people think that good workouts are. Like, I just scored 20 and I

just killed everybody, right? It's not that all the time, right? Like, that's what you mean by too good for your own good. Yeah. Like, you might ball out, but like not for what a team needs in that particular moment. Yeah, Demo, sorry, you're absolutely right. I want to go back. Demone Brown's another name like that. Demone was my buddy in Philly came out of Syracuse, like six, eight long, really lean, could play. But just, you know, Larry Brown did. You know, Larry Brown didn't love him and he never really got the look that he needed early, I think. To your point, Logan, yeah, what I realized, you know, and I was just really blessed because I didn't realize this in real time, that most of the dudes that are doing all the scoring in those things weren't the ones that they were calling back. I just wasn't, like, gifted enough with the ball to be doing all of the scoring.

I was the guy that was getting like 10 or 12 but guarding people, moving the ball, like cutting, like, you know, doing the things that you could ask someone who was the 14th man on your roster to do and he maybe raised the level of the floor of your practices with competitive spirit. But they weren't looking for a dude to come in there and shoot the ball of like at volume levels to score 22 points.

Like that was somebody else's job that was already on the roster. Yeah. They were going by pickup rules and not like professional basketball rules and roll on a team rule. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of that. Like when I was in when I was like covering like a beat, I had to go to the G league a lot just to like, you know, somebody got pushed down and stuff. And there was always like, I'm not going to say any names because, you know, mad.

But like there were so many names from like yesterday year that were getting buckets. And you're like, why isn't he in the league? But then it's like, oh, because he would never play this role up top, you know? Like I remember going to. I remember going a few games and seeing a lot of dudes like that and just being like, I can see why he's not in the league. But listen, you're a G-League professional score. Yeah.

I was a CBA professional score. Not an NBA professional score. Like, you know, there's a difference. So if you're there and that's, you know, all you can showcase and they've already passed on you, now it's different if they kind of draft you to do that, send you down there to sharpen those skills up. and then you come back up. But like, if you're always going to be like a 12, 13th, 10th, and work your way up into a contributing member of like a good team,

you got to find other things to do in a lot of the, in a lot of instances. For sure. All right. I think we've got time for one question. One more question. All right. One more question.

Hello, Real One's team. Amadu from Ottawa, Canada. Happy New Year's guys. Logan. Congratulations for getting the dad level. Hope I'll join you soon. I have to find a madam first. And, Roger, thanks for pronouncing my name correct as well.

A question for you. With the firing of Mike Brown and given how fast coaches go from heroes to zeros, shouldn't we think that now is an error where we should not expect coaches to stay four or five years on the same bench? Can I get this one real quick? Can I start this off? Because it's kind of in my back here. Let me get this. I think it has more to do with the franchise and patience level and a lot of those things.

and just like what the franchise's priorities are. Like the Kings are, even though they are playing well under Doug Christie, and I'm pleasantly surprised by that, they are historically not a well-run organization, nor of them. And so, and like just even simple stuff, like knowing that you didn't want this coach and signing him to an extension is a sign of just bad leadership. in the front office or in this case,

I think ownership. And, but if you have, like, say, I've watched a lot of NFL, so I would say, like,

Detroit Lions, like Dan Campbell, right? Like, you have a functioning organization that sees a vision and a coach. And it's like,

I like him, even though we're losing and we're not winning at the level that we're going to win, we're going to invest time in it. But, like, I don't feel like, and I'm not saying that Mike Brown

didn't have his flaws as a coach, but like, you're not doing anybody any favors by like drafting and signing 75 wing play you know like you're not building a functioning roster for a coach that you think is going to feed right like you you draft kegan murray who you tell everybody in the world is going to be a great player and then you draft like hella players at his position and then you know kind of flood him down and that's just one example right But like that's it's not just the coach in that sense. It's also the organization around them and the pieces that they put that organ they put around organizationally.

And also, and I'm speaking for the Kings because Mike Brown was part in there. But like a lot of there's a lot of ownership meddling in Sacramento. Like I don't care who takes the blame for the firing. Like Vivek Rana DeVay has handprints all over this. Like he's and that's and he has a history of doing this. So like when you have an organization. historically the Kings have been, you're going to see a lot of turnover like that. But like when you have a organization with a plan, like let's say, okay, see, with Coach Dags, right?

Like, give them the pieces. They give him the players. They give him the leeway to be able to do something. Then you see the fruits of that. And so I think it's about fit. And organizationally, you know, like, and it's hard for certain coaches, especially black ones to, like, pick the right jobs because you don't get that much leeway in these job. There's only 30 of them in the league. But like, you, it's hard, but you have to pick the right

organization in this. Every organization has a reputation and a rightfully so one, but like, got to see the people that you are going to go work with before, like, you go make a decision that way. And it's a really tough one because these jobs are, are really hard to get. But it's, you know, you got to pick the right one. Because I got advice once. Like, you don't want to, you don't want to pick your next job and your next job be your last job. you know and that's what it seems like certain times that happened with sarton organ like worth noting in this conversation the current by far front runner for coach of the year kitty Atkinson remember like two years ago had accepted and then backed out of the charlotte hornet's job

great move the only mistake he made was accepting conditionally in the first place before backing out, but the backing out part, which is like, that's not easy to do. That was by far the right move. Not just because he's now with a Cleveland team that's on like a freaking record pace and looks awesome and it looks like a contender, Logan's with Logan's take, notwithstanding. But like the Hornets are just, they've been historically a bad franchise. And they've got new ownership and maybe things will change. And I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

But like, you do have to pick. And like, I don't blame Mike Brown for picking the Kings. and they've been one of the most volatile, the one of the teams that has changed coaches and GMs at a higher rate than almost anybody. I think, like I think I said this, a couple podcasts back. I think Kings and Nicks over the last 20 years are probably neck and neck

for most GMs and coaches combined. But like all that's true, but it is only 30 teams and all that. And the fact is, Logan, while you were talking, I just wanted to look it up real quick, you guys realize like a third of the league, a third of league's head coaches have been hired just, in the last two years. And then two-thirds have been hired since February of 2021. So two-thirds of the

league is four years or less in the job. And of that, half of those are like two years or less for the job. Quick question for you, Howard. Quick question for you, Howard. So it's everywhere. It's not like the kings are messed up, but it's just followed. The answer is yes. I had a real question. How the hell are you a journalist and have just that great of math skills on the apply because I would not have been able to get that. Did you, did you, did you, did you do ad in your brain? Did you do division in your brain? I couldn't do that. I just want to say that's very impressive. No, I just found a site that had everybody in their higher date. So I was able to like just real quickly take, you know, 2021 from 2025, I believe it's full. So even

then. Good job, buddy. Even then. Great job. I did. I did, I did however, get a very good score in the math part of the SAT a hundred years ago. So they're well done. But that's, To your point out, I'll just add on. Like, that's not just basketball, though. Like, you look at the NFL. Prejurab mail. No, but like, it's, it's just, you know, it's just the times we live in. The people want their results quicker and quicker.

All right. This is a treat. Really happy to get. That has been another edition of real ones. I'm Logan Murdoch. That is Roger Bell. And the cut is Howard motherfuckers back. and the cut cut is Cliff Augustine.

On Friday, it will just be me and Roger Bell. Oh, where? We will have, yeah. And then we'll see Howard next Tuesday. I mean, if Roger shows up, who knows? You know, like, we'll see. I don't know. Might just be talking to myself.

I don't know. Ben, bass and beyond. I don't know if I'm enough of the time. Jesus. I took you more as a West Zone guy. No? Okay. What?

Oh. All right, it's getting all the road. See you guys on Friday. Talk to you so. All this shit. Bye. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C.

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