The Ringer NBA Show - Looking at the Knicks' Disappointing Start to the Season

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Wos is joined by Kazeem Famuyide from the MSG Network to talk all things Knicks. First, they talk about the Knicks’ disappointing start to the season (1:45) before getting into the Knicks players who embody the struggles of Knicks fandom (12:38). Finally, they talk Kaz’s unique career arc (23:58).   Host: Wosney Lambre Guest: Kazeem Famuyide Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, Plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Ladies and gentlemen, to a weekend edition of the Ringer NBA show. I'm Big Waz, aka Wazney-Lambrae. We're doing this new weekend thing for you guys.

Going to be talking to people around the Ringerverse as well as just our favorite people around NBA media. And today, for our very first Sunday edition, we have a very special guest, a former colleague, mine, an actual homie. my man, my man, Kaz Fomu E day of MSG Network. I'm chilling, man. MSG Network, you co-host MSGPM, the show. Welcome to the show, man. We got a lot to get into next season. You get me on a raw day, too.

I'm feeling very raw. Oh, man. We're talking lots of Knicks talk. I'm feeling very raw today. I didn't catch the game live. I literally watched the Bucks game right before we came on. Yeah. Yeah, look, we can get right into it.

The Knicks came into the season with some expectations, right? For sure. I think last year, everybody would agree that they overachieved. They surprised everybody. And then, you know, they improved the roster or so it would seem that they did in the offseason, bringing in guys like Campbell Walker and Evan Fournier and, you know, expecting the young guys to sort of make improvements like quickly and RJ. but so far they've kind of stumbled out the gay cats.

I know, look, you work for the team now. You're one of the biggest Nick fans that I know. I appreciate that. What's your feeling so far this season? It's definitely, it's rough, man. Like, it really boils down to, like, I can sit here and throw out a million of reasons why, like, you know, the Knicks are having issues. I could talk about injuries. I could talk about, you know, schedules.

I could talk about rotation and playing whoever's what or if Obies should be getting more minutes, all these. Like a million situations any Knicks fan will give you. But it really only boils down to one thing, right? And Julius Randall isn't having a good a year as he was last year. Is that plain and simple? Last year, Julius Randall, you know, before, you know, that season was seen as like a good player, but not, you know, one of those, you know, possibly super star talents.

And then, you know, he has a year like last year and it completely changes the narrative on him, right? So up until that season, up until the right before the playoffs, he's getting like legitimately, legitimate MVP buzz, bro. Like, he can't play any better. You know what I'm saying? We can quibble with the description of legitimate, but carry on. There was a few weeks where people were making like legitimate.

arguments that Julius Randall should be getting some talk about being MVP because of what we just talked about. The next expectations last year, surprising people and being like a top four in the East, right? So I say all that to say, he ain't doing that this year. Plain and simple. Like, we've already seen how good this team could be this year when Julius Randall has a game like he would last year, right? I was calling him Cornwall Larry Bird last year.

Like he was looking like, he was looking at like all world, bro. And there are nights, there are certain nights this season where he looks like that. And when he looks like that, the Knicks can beat anybody. They'll go head up with the Brooklyn Nets. They go head up with, you know, the heat or any team in the NBA, they can beat when Julius Randall is playing to his best. The plain simple fact is he hasn't been playing to his best. and it's resulted in so many things. It's resulted in like, you know,

lineup changes with like, you know, the Kimball Walker situation and being more of a playmaker and kind of getting the ball back in his hands as last year. It's a lot. It's a lot. But that's my, that's the long and short of it on the season right now. Obviously, there's things you could be excited about

with the young players like Obie Topping looking crazy and like, you know, Manuel quickly showing some potential. Even today with Quentin Grimes just going off and, you know, giving you that shooting guard production that you're hoping from Fournier and R.J. Barrett, those are things to like, but overall it just boils down to the engine, you know what I mean? Like Julius Randall not playing as good as he was last year. Yeah, so for me, you know, it's hard, right? Like, because I thought all season that the Knicks last year that the Knicks were playing

over their heads in the playoffs, I actually picked them to lose either a four or five game to the Hawks before the playoffs. the playoffs even started. That's on record. I just was like... And I thought you was hating when you said that too. No, no.

I was like, I was there. I was over the hate. It's like, guys, they're outmanned and the playoffs like is going to be about Julius Randall making some really hard shots.

And at no point in his career has he been asked to do that or expected to do that. I saw no reason why we thought he should, you know, be some guy that's going to carry teams in the playoffs. Like that's never been his history.

However, you know, whatever, they have that type of season in this year. But last year, they won the day on defense. And I looked it up before I got on recall, Kaz, the 25th ranked defense in the NBA. That's just not, I know that keeps Tibbs up at night, bro. Like, I know that's the one thing that's really pulling his hair out is that like, yo, you could lose, but losing the way that they're losing this year where people just like literally a who's who of who he play for with Shaq, right? Like coming into the garden and getting their career highs.

It don't matter who it is, dude. Like, every single game, there's people getting career highs on the Tom Tibido defense. Like, I feel like he could deal with the losing, but I think that's the part that really, you know, rubs him the wrong way. Because that's his bread and butter. Like, Tom Tibado teams play deep. And this one is not. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. It's like they're ranked 17th on offense right now as far as this is per MBA.com's measuring of office.

offensive rating, which is kind of what you expect about league average offense from this group. But, you know, the idea is like, yo, this is a Tibbs group. They should be able to put together a top five defense. They're in the bottom five. That's got to somehow change. I thought about osmosis, like, people that I knew weren't great defenders would somehow become great defenders just because they're playing the Tibbs system because we saw it happen

last year. Like they signed a bunch of guys that, you know, before that season weren't really ringing no bells. Right. They were playing above their heads. They were playing sellout defense. And you kind of thought that, you know, okay, this is the Knicks culture now. Like, you're not going to come here and not play defense. You know what I'm saying. And expect to play. And that's kind of what's happened this year. Like guys that we know can't really, you know, be counted on as being like locked down defenders are kind of showing, showing that. ass a little bit. Yeah, so, you know, I feel like fans and even media, we tend to fall into this trap

of sort of thinking in linear terms when it comes to these teams, right? Like the Knicks were the dregs. They bring Tibbs in. They improve the roster. They make a fourth seed out of nowhere. They improve the roster again. We're thinking, I, at least four seed or five seed and like this linear thing where now, you know, the team kind of feels like it's going.

and in reverse one, I don't necessarily think that. I don't think that either. I don't think that either, but you continue. They're not a laughing stock anymore. And this is like a real team. And the idea was that they should be staying the course. They're not going to throw a bunch of future first round picks for some washed up veteran like a Westbrook or John Wall or what the Knicks were doing in the past. They're staying in the course.

What do you get the feeling? Because obviously you're tapped in with Nick fandom in a way that most people aren't. What do you think the temperature is with the Knicks fans about this course that the management has decided to take? Well, I would say obviously those expectations that people had, those change after you get a 4-seat. Those change after you go on like a 15-game, you know, streak or I forgot how many games they went in a row. It's hard to go back to Hamburg a helper after filet mignon. Exactly, exactly. But, you know, most teams that you'd expect to be a fourth-seat in an NBA player,

You expect them to either be there or, you know, ascend, especially with the, with the splashy, well, I get splashy for Nick's sake moves that were made in the off season. That being said, I would say like the fan base and how they feel about the trades or being able to make these sort of moves. It's weird. Like you have this one section of the Knicks fan base that's like, yo, we got everything we, we got everything on the team right now that could fix this. Like just play the kids. Play the kids. Like look at Obie Topping. That dude's on sports center every night.

But not only that, like he plays with energy. Like he injects life into the team, right? Like, you know, look at quickly. Like, even though he's not perfect, but like what point guard is, you know what I'm saying? Like what he gives you is what wins in a lot of NBA games in, you know, 2021. You see a kid like quitting Grimes today who could show out. And, you know, I think there's that section of NBA of Knicks fandom that are like, all right. If we're going to be losing games, at least let's see the things that we got, the guys that we drafted or the guys that we believe you believe in, you know, work it out.

And in almost every instance that they've done that, they've either shown that they can really play on the NBA level or they've won. You know, and the last time I think they did that was against the Atlanta Hawks where, you know, that felt like that felt like a win that would have. have like turned most seasons around. But for some reason, you know what I mean? Like those young kids who really got them playing well didn't get that that burn again. You know what I'm saying? And again, from the top, Julius Randall not playing as well as he had last year. I mean, he's still effective.

But, you know, it's, I don't think fans, I don't think fans are really ready for them to do the whole, we're going to trade all of our picks for mellow move. We're going to trade all of our picks for. like John Wall move or something that long hurting Knicks fans know they can do, right? Yeah. I don't think they're there yet. People who live through the Stefan Marbury and Steve Francis back court. Yes.

I don't think I don't think they're there yet. You know what I mean? Like I think Knicks fans, you got to give Knicks fans this. They're smart enough to know that trade isn't even out there to make. You know what I'm saying? Like we can just wave a magic wand to be like, oh, let's just package. eight to ten people and go get Dame Lillard, right? Well, we're watching what Dame Lillard can do right now.

That doesn't really make your team much better than they are right now. You know what I'm saying? Like, not that I wouldn't love Dame Lillard, obviously. But I think the fan base is smart enough to know that like there's not a trade to even like go out there and get that really changes this, make this more different than what you already got. So just stay at a course. And if you believe in your front office, they believe in your coach and you believe in

the GM, this new regime that came in and turn things around that quickly, you got to kind of let them ride this out. And I think that's the majority of Knicks fans thinking like at this moment. So many players on the Knicks sort of embody the trials and tribulations

of Nick fandom of the past 25 years, right? Like, I think about Kemba, which... Yes. Like, for people who don't understand, like, I just want to kind of foreground what Campbell Walker means as a New York City basketball played like.

This guy's from the Bronx, played for gauchos, which is about as New York City and AAU team as you can get. Played at the gauchos, played at Rice High School, didn't go to St. John's, but stayed in the Biggies,

played at Yukon, won Biggie's tournaments in the Garden. Like, his New York City basketball bona fides are just like astronomical. And he's like the favorite son who comes home and it's this happy story. And a typical New York Knicks fashion is just disastrous. It's just a beautiful story that turns disastrous. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's kind of like if you're, if you're an old school Knicks fan who like knows when bad Knicks seasons could happen, that was kind of like the first omen that was like, oh, oh, okay. And like, we really like, like, listen, New Yorkers love Kevin, not even just NBA players, right? Like, you know how, like, you know how certain players around the league are just, like, universally get those, those loving daps at the end of the game. You know what I'm saying?

Like, Kemba's one of those guys. Yep. And he's a hometown kid on top of that. So, like, don't nobody feel worse about it not working out for Kemper than New York Knicks fans, right? Like, we, like, we wanted Kemper to be that dude again, especially here. Like that would have been, you know, and that would have been just something that would be worth this season alone. Like if this, if this record was, if they may be won two or more games right now, but Kemba was killing, it would still be a good story.

Right. But the fact that like Kemba, like, they're doing bad and Kembo wasn't like doing that great as well. It was like, oh, man, this is, you know, it's going to be a long season. Well, how you know it was bad, how you knew it was bad, how you know it was bad, to go back to something that you said about playing the young kids, like it literally pains Tibbs to ever not play his vets. Like he wants to play a veteran point guard who knows what the hell he's doing out there.

He don't want to play quickly second-year guy. He's like, yo, you better earn it. Become some type of All-Star, then you'll get in this lineup. I'd rather play my vets. And for Tibbs to come out and say, we're not playing Kemba anymore. That's just the ultimate death now. Like, you know it's freaking horrible.

Right. Yeah, that, that, I remember the first couple of games, too, like, Kemba looked at all right. Like, there were certain games, like, the first, like, two or three weeks of the season, we're just like, yo, like, Knicks might have low-key got a steal because Kemper's out here making shots. Like, you know, he can still get a bucket. Like, and I think Knicks fans were still so, you know, man, you're talking about veteran point guards. I know what they're doing. And they're still so scoring from like Alfred Payton and his unwillingness to be a scorer.

You know what he gives you is what he gives you. I think Nick's fans and New York fans just love, you know, love the idea of Kemper Walker more than like the actual like execution of it. You know what I'm saying? So, ah, man, it sucks. Yeah, the anguish. I can hear the anguish in your voice. Yeah, you can feel it, right? And again, another guy who I think is, again, and.

of Knicks fandom of the last 25 years is, of course, R.J. Barrett, right? I can remember when Steph Curry gets drafted one draft big before the Knicks. The Knicks, Mike Nantone was absolutely like, we're getting that kid. He's perfect for what we want to do. And Golden State was smart enough to draft him. Obviously changes the fortune of their franchise. Which, again, people don't remember this now, but the Warriors were a joke. They were the Knicks of the West.

They were incompetent for decades on then. They draft Steph Curry. We've seen the result of that. RJ gets drafted third overall right after Zion Williamson, who, whatever, he hasn't been able to be on the court. But when he's been on the court, he's been pretty fucking dominant. Like, you can't even argue with that. And John Morant, who's been an obviously all-star level player this season.

And then, of course, there's RJ who comes in right behind that. what's your feeling on RJ's season? Obviously, we know he hasn't reached the Jai level or the Zion level, but what's your feeling about his season so far? I think it's really rough to judge RJ Barrett season thus far, right? Like, especially, let's preface it with what you just put it out there, right? Like with Knicks fans and always having that one pick behind you, right? Like, we could talk about the what-ifs of having Zion Williamson,

but the fact of the matter is like he hasn't been available and the best ability and the NBA's availability, right? So, but, you know, who knows in a different universe, maybe like that injury doesn't happen and Zion's like that same killer, but for the Knicks, right? Right. That being said, I don't think, I don't think it's been totally fair to RJ Barrett to compare what he's asked to do and what, you know, the Jamerance and all these other people are asked to do for their team because I think RJ Brad's a very good NBA player.

Like I think when he's struggling, you can see that, you know, the team doesn't do well because of it. But he has had moments where he looks every bit the third overall picking that draft. He looks every bit like, okay, he's not exactly John Moran and who the hell is, but he was rightly placed in those three, those top three of that, that whatever draft class, right? So I think right now with RJ he's He's starting to find his shot again And I think that's why the COVID you know

The COVID protocols kind of hurts him a lot Because I think the last two games started to find his groove And started to look like the guy from last year Same thing with Julius But you know I really don't think it's fair to judge RJ's season so far Because it's been up and down That hasn't necessarily been consistent

And I think that's the story about RJ's we can't really know what he is until we see the consistency from him right like if he's just going to be a guy that's going to be a 15 point per game guy and that's who he is then i think you can i think he has too many moments where he looks like he's below that and looks like oh he could be an all-star you know what i'm saying so it's weird for him like he's still very young he just turned 21 like and we're seeing now more than ever like so many players that really don't even get it until like the 26, 27. You know what I'm saying?

So I would still hold off on like the RJ Barrett slander train for the next couple of years, you know what I'm saying? Because I think he's he's shown, he still shows flashes of potential of being a guy that could help any like good basketball team. Yeah, look, it's not like R.J. Barrett's going to be better than Jordan Hill, right? For it as an example, like Jordan Hill literally was the pick right after Steph Curry. R.J. Barrett's going to be better than that. I think he's shown signs.

It's just, you know, how it goes. The grass is always greener. You see Evan Mobley doing what he's doing on the cast. And you're like, really? We got the third pick in the RJ draft and not the Evan Mobley draft. But look, I like RJ. My thing with him is he shows determination and effort level on defense. And at his size as a wing defender that, like, that's going to be super.

valuable. He's showing flashes as a playmaker. I think he's going to be a good NBA player. He obviously works his ass off on his game. It's just, you know, people thought that it might happen a little bit faster for him and it just happened in, you know, in New York, you're going to be under the microscope. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's a, he's a guy that, you know, people forget he was like the hyped high school dude. You know what I'm saying before Zion Williamson took over every single. He was taking shots away from Zion at Duke. Exactly. Exactly. Like, he was the guy, bro. So I don't know, man. Like, I think I agree

with you. I think he's going to be a good NBA player. But like, I think the trajectory might be a little more traditional than like the megastars of Zion and J. Moran, you know what I mean? Like, it might just take a little longer for him to get there. So last next

question, before we wrap up the next portion of our conversation, in your idealized immediate future of the New York Knicks, what do you think happens? And Kaz is like, all right, this is what I would like to see within the next year or a year or two from now what I would like to have happen to the team.

Oh, man. I mean, I think any rational Knicks fan, and there's not many of us, but I think any rational Nick's then would just hope for, you know, fight, you know what I'm saying? Like, at the very least, like, put a team out there that like people could be competitive. you know what I'm saying? And just stay in the playoff hunt. I don't think any real Knicks fan or any like, you know, knowledgeable or logical person is thinking like this is a championship team.

You know what I mean? It's definitely not. Well, before the season, a Nick fan friend of mine, actually his name is Kaz too, white cast. Really? He said, yeah, we're Bradley Bill away from contention. A Bradley Bill away? I mean, listen.

Listen, when you say a Bradley Beal away, like, are you trading people away or are you just, are you just dropping? Like, a lot of teams are a superstar away from being competitive. You know, I mean, I mean, what kind of question is that? But, I mean, no, like, I think most knowledgeable next fans would say like, okay, this isn't a team that is going to go head up with the sons or the warriors or the bucks, you know, for a championship. Right. But, you know, realistically, they should compete. Like they should like play those teams really good. You know what I'm saying?

And then like I think or just me speaking, I think this team would be would be best constructed as like the Brooklyn Nets how they did it. Right. Like you would hope that they would be a good team that's competent enough that important players want to come. Exactly. Like you would want it to just be like the ship just steady enough.

So a superstar player can be like, man, if I could go over there and just pop right in, we got something. You know what I'm saying? So I still think that's where Knicks fans should temper their expectations. And if they fall anything lower than that, then, you know, heads got a row. For sure. And so, all right. So I want to get into it with you.

Because people who don't know your history, man, you've had so many fucking jobs in this media space. from rap journalist to wrestling prognosticator to working for the WWE at one point to all like just a myriad we did we once did a job together for uninterrupted where we co-hosts to the show called The Score and now you land at MSG and again for people who aren't from New York is one of those MSG network is one of those New York things where you think every team has their own network

It's like, wait, what? They don't. Like what? They really do that. Not every team in every city just has their own dedicated channel and station that just runs team propaganda all day. And like, no. It's crazy.

And so, you know, when you grew up in New York, like, MSG is this thing. And now you work over there, man. It's got to be, I know that's like a dream come true for you. Yeah, it's a staple in New York City, man. Like, I think I tell people every time, like, thank you for taking a picture of me in your bar. I just like I love I love the fact that like you know after every next game after people are super are super happy or super drunk or super sad whatever and their Knicks fans they're gonna see my face right like so I always thought like that's just the coolest part of the gig and it's

almost like a Knicks after party right or like a Knicks or just a just an NBA like after party you know what I mean? Because like even if being from New York, bro, like, it's not anything like you ever think like could happen. You know what I'm saying? Like that's not what you think about. Like I'd never thought that, you know, this opportunity would present itself. And, you know, I'm a lifer, bro.

Like this is something that, you know, as a New Yorker, you just kind of grow up with and being like, you know, being a part of, you know, MSG network and being able to, you know, talk and just like the. little stuff that like people don't even see on TV like just being able to like watch the games with like Wally Zurbiac and Alana Hawn and Pito and Monica McNutt and like there's no better way to watch a Knicks game than right you know with those people you know what I'm saying and everybody who works there is just like so cool and like so like hype to work with you because like they kind to see my enthusiasm for it as well you know and it's it's it doesn't feel like work man it's like I get to go and talk with Nick's fans and celebrities and like Monica who's like a megastar who's just like, you know, just about like whatever's happening in the world.

So I want to ask you. It's my tribe. It's New Yorkers. I want to ask you about that because I remember one of my first like, holy shit. I'm actually doing the job of covering the NBA, like being in NBA media media or whatever, which obviously is a lifelong dream. I was in Staples in the media room and I looked to my right

and Jerry West was getting like frozen yogurt or whatever from the machine. And I was just like, that's fucking Jerry West standing six inches from me. Right? Like that was my, holy shit, I'm really doing this moment. What was your MSG moment? It's like, y'all, I'm really fucking working for MSG right now.

Yo, I mean, it happens every day, bro. like I think the first time, the first time Mike Breen says your name, like, you know, coming up next, Kazamonica for MGB, he's just like, yeah. Yeah. Put that, you know, there. I mean, there was another moment where like the PA announcer, like, said my name and said three point gold because he, M. U.

E. And it's like, that's another one. Then, like, Clyde walks up to you. Clyde, like, you know, Claude Frazier, like the coolest, like, the epit. epitome of just swagged out athlete, like style icon, like, knows you and, like, is talking with you and they're doing interviews for, like, all in New York to see. And, like, it's, it happens every day, bro. Like, I enjoy that gig so much.

Like, even, like, in the whack times, like, when the Knicks aren't doing as well or when they are doing well, like, it's still just an awesome place to be. Like, it's a place of where the history just kind of hits you as soon as you walk. in like as soon as I even parked my car and I'm just like walking and seeing all those names that go up and down that arena and been on that network it's like yo this is this is this is this is dope so I can't pick one that happens literally all the time that probably the next one's going to happen next week I love that man listen I want to thank you so much for coming on our show our maiden voyage you're a new dad you're engaged you just bossing up growing up family MSG you're

fucking killing it. I'm proud of you. I'm very happy for you, man. Mezaa lot that you came on today. Thank you so much, bro. Waz, you know, we go back so to the score days and even before that, like, Palooza days. Of course. You know, whatever it is, man. Like, I love everything you're doing. And anytime you want to come and shoot the breeze about the Knicks, like, I'm here, bro. Hey, I'm in New York for two weeks starting on Friday. Y'all going to get me up on MSG now.

Well, come on through, man. We're going to need. some guests. Let's do it. Let's do it. Caj just booked me on the Ringer NBA Sunday version, y'all. Y'all heard it here first. Anyway, make sure

you guys and subscribe to the Ringer NBA feed wherever you get your pods, man. Of course, group chat with me and Varyer, the mismatch. Of course, you know real ones with Logan and Roger Bell. Obviously, you know what the Ringer NBA feed has to offer you guys.

We'll see you guys next time. Peace.