The Ringer NBA Show - Luka Lights Up Mexico City. Plus: Is There a Trade Out There for the Celtics? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

With Luka Doncic continuing to put up gaudy numbers (this time in Mexico), we imagine a world in which the NBA continues its global expansion and increases its player pool. Are there enough talented players for 34 teams, or even 36 (3:50)? Then, we run down some of the potential players who could get moved in the coming weeks, now that the Dec. 15 restriction on trades for free-agent signings has been removed (32:17). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K. Kevin O'Brien O'Brien, Kavanaugh, A. Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Connor, Kavanaugh, what's going on this Friday? Well, we unfortunately start the show today with our thoughts and prayers going out to David Stern. The NBA released a statement last night, and this was really out of nowhere, because it was so sudden what took place. David Stern collapsed at a restaurant last night, suffering a brain hemorrhage. And the NBA sent out, NBA Commissioner Emeritus David Stern suffered a sudden brain hemorrhage earlier today for which he underwent emergency surgery. the NBA said in a statement, our thoughts and prayers are with David and his family. New York's

fire department responded to a 911 call at a midtown restaurant around 2 o'clock yesterday afternoon and fire officials transported the 77-year-old Stern to Mount Sinai West Medical Clinic. There's no immediate word on his condition. But as we know, David Stern was the commissioner of the NBA for 30 years from 1984 to 2014. Super scary, sobering news to say the least. And we should at least start today by saying, you know, here's hoping that everything goes well with David Stern and he's able to come back to health because that is absolutely terrifying, Kev.

Yeah, it was horrible to see that news last night. Obviously, David Stern's 77 years old has lived a full, complete life. I mean, all his accomplishments. And hopefully that's able to continue. I saw, I think, Michael Lee from the Athletic tweeted last night that he recently spoke with David Stern. And everything I've heard is Stern has conversations with Adam Silver. He's still sharp, still loves and cares about the growth of the league. Just like he oversaw it over those 30 years, like you said, Chris, seven teams or added during his tenure.

Six teams relocated. Of course, the league changed with David Stern as commissioner. And it's amazing how one day someone can do that. seem completely healthy. And in the next, they can have something like this happened. So hopefully Stern is able to get back to full health for him and his family. But sending our best to them. The premier game last night was the 76ers and the Celtics. And this one had a little something added because on Tuesday night after the Sixers beat the Denver Nuggets, Charles Barkley said he is the toughest player in the league to match up with. Speaking of Joel Embed,

but we don't talk about him the way we talk about Luca, Janice, Anthony Davis, James Hardin. We don't ever say that about him. We're telling you, you can be great. You ain't playing hard enough. 22 points ain't enough to get you to the next level. Shaquille O'Neal added, do you want to be great or do you want to be good? If you want to be good, keep doing 22 points. If you want to be great, give me 28, give me 30. You want to be great. Watch Janice. He wants to be great. Last night, Joel Embed went out and scored 38 points, 13 rebounds, six assists. He is 21. or 12 of 21 from the field, 12 of 14 from free throws. And you hear him after the game speaking to these guys and saying,

you guys are Hall of Famers. And when you say something, I really take it to heart. And, you know, I do need to be more aggressive. And, you know, so many guys get really mad about Charles Barkley and Shaq or these guys saying something, it's old heads, it's haters, you know, you know, they're criticizing them on national television. And so they respond by getting mad at those guys. Embedd took the entire other tact,

which was it's meaningful to me when you say something like that. And I'll be damned, Kevin. He went out and showed everybody because he was a menace last night. And Bede was unbelievable. It was easily his best game overall of the season. and, you know, Shaq and Barclay were both critiquing and Bede scoring saying, you know, you're giving us 22 points per game. You're going to give us 30. And there's some truth to that. But I thought more than anything else with M. Bid this year, sometimes it's the playmaking.

Last night with six assists and far more secondary assist or potential assist on top of that. And Bid looked the way I thought he would look in year four of his career when he was a prospect at Kansas. At that point of his career, sometimes he was slow to make reads, but he always had passing vision. He delivered an accurate ball. And last night, he was throwing darts out there. He was beating double teams, making patience, poised reads. And with Joe Lombie, when he has that balance of the playmaking threat, never on top of his scoring threat, it becomes even more difficult for a defense to decide what to do. If you're going to double team him, if he can beat you with a smart pass,

and if you single team him, he can just pummel a defender underneath the rim, draw our file, get to the line. That's what takes him to that next level as a scorer if he's able to beat defenses with that pass as well. And we saw that complete version of Joel Ambide last night against the Celtics. Well, and it just goes to show that, you know, I mean, look, he admitted he heard what he had to say, what those guys had to say. He said, maybe they're right.

And then he went out there and showed, I can be the most dominant. player on the court. And, you know, Barclay's message to him was you have to be more aggressive. Like the great player, he has to set the tone for the team every night, like not just be an innocent bystander to what is happening. And you know that he's got that in his pocket.

He can be that. And he can be the most dominant figure, especially now when so many teams are playing small, that this guy has an even greater advantage. And you were talking about passing. I mean, look, he sees a lot of double teams still to get the ball out of his hands. And he is a very good passer. But it just goes to show he's got that in him.

They know he's got that in. We all know. Like, he can be the best guy on the court any given night. And so what they're saying is to be like a real superstar, to be like a legendary player, that's got to be every night. You go out there and you plan on doing that. Not just because somebody ripped you on TNT or criticized you or whatever. Yeah.

You know, and there's a lot of guys like that. You never know what's going to motivate them, but he was clearly a motivated guy last night. And that is a likely, very possibly, a Eastern semis preview, right? That those teams could easily be on a collision course against each other. And it brings up, I think when you see MB do what he did last night, there is going to be a sentiment,

which has lasted the entire season, which is, does Boston need to make a move for a big? And there's been arguments about this. Like, is there anybody that you want that's big that's going to be better than the guys that they are regularly putting out there, which are more perimeter-based?

What do you think? Do you think that because of who you have to get past in the east, that that should, you know, guide their thinking and say, hey, we need better big guys on what we've got? But what's the move, right? Like, I know somebody tweeted last night, what is Boston need to give up for Stephen Adams? And in theory, Stephen Adams is the perfect target.

He's a big, sturdy defensive player who can muscle with Joe L.M.B. in a playoff series. But how are you going to get Stephen Adams? You don't have the salaries to put together in a deal unless you're trading Gordon Hayward. And if you're doing that, that hurts your teams in other ways because you're losing, you're losing that secondary ball handling presence next to Kemper Walker. So I don't know what the move. really is for Boston. I'm not sure

which big man is out there that would actually be playable in a series with Ennis Cantor, it's not like he's a bad post-defender. He's a bad pick and roll defender. But his post-defense is good. He just got beat up last night. I think for Boston, unless somebody

becomes available that's unexpected, I'm not sure what's really out there, Chris. Do you have any ideas on who they should potentially target? Because I'm not. You know my first reaction and I know he just got demolished by John Morant the other night. They should have kept Baines. Well, yeah, Beans, of course.

I mean, they really, that's a mistake. He got a, what do you get? Two years, 10 million something? I mean, what a bargain he is. And I know that this isn't the time to talk about Baines after what just happened to him. But that's just one play. By the way, like, for sure. Just one aside, though.

Why do we bash guys for trying to contest dunks? Why? I don't get it. I don't understand. I don't think anybody. Look, I don't think we should be talking more about Baines. It's like,

wow. And I admire the effort of trying to block a super athletic dunker. It's different. I admire that when players do that. Look, look, like when Jason Terry got killed by LeBron, yes,

like he got murdered by LeBron. But at least he tried to block the shot. Oh, I don't think anybody's, look, I don't think anybody's killing the guy. I think they're goofing. It's funny.

It's funny. It is funny. I mean, that's the thing. It's funny. I know, it is funny. It's funny to update his Wikipedia page that his career-ended. Yes.

It's what makes things fun. But I don't think anybody is saying, oh, he stanked or whatever. I mean, he just got God. I know, I know. I know. But sometimes people do take it like that. Like, what do you do? Why would you do that?

Oh, no. Look, he contested it. I'll tell you this. Morant did that on Monday night against the Warriors and Willie Collie Stein and the rest of them. Oh, got out of the way with the game on the line. So I give Bain's credit. He tried to contest it.

It did not work out for him. And maybe in retrospect, I have more respect for him than I do Colley Stein because Colley Stein just looked at Moran. And he just went right down the lane with the game on the line and dunked it. For what it's worth, Boston did that Baines trade to open up cap space. I understand. Yeah. But still, I'd figure something else out.

You know, because keeping that guy, if they had Baines' right, Like that's the kind of guy. You're talking about Stephen Adams. Stephen Adams contract is huge. That is hard. How do you match that? Seriously. Well, Boston can't unless they're trading Hayward,

which I do not anticipate they would for Stephen Adams when he's not been the same player this year. You would not. You would not move Hayward in a deal for a big that unless it's like a fantastic big. But they're like who, what fantastic big is out there. available. They're hard to come by. Like, I mean, if you're sitting there and you're going, we got to have somebody that we can throw up against MB when it comes time. When it comes

Eastern Conference semifinals time, you know, what are we going to do? Because we got to have somebody that we can throw in there. I mean, I think if you're Boston, Brad Stevens alluded to this. I saw a quote tweeted out after the game that he was unhappy with the double team rotations when they doubled in B that there were mistakes made. I think if you are Boston and you aren't able to add a big man Adams like, as you alluded to, Chris. I think you have to do what you did last night, double team and bank on Philadelphia having a poor shooting series. If it comes to that, that needs to be the formula.

You need a bank on MB making inaccurate passes or you need a bank on your rotations being sharp, forcing lesser players to make a decision. That needs to be the formula. That's what teams have done against the Sixers. That's what teams are trying to do against a lot of big men across the league. but for Boston, I'm not sure they're going to be able to find that guy to comfortably single team,

Joelle and Bede. Yeah, I mean, I was trying to look around and see if there was anybody on. So Tristan Thompson, got any interest in that? Of course. Thompson is another guy.

But even then, though, it's 17 million in his salary number. Even then, that's tough to get to for Boston. It's weird. In past years, they've had those types of contracts

that you could comfortably put together in a deal. Well, actually, Thompson is at 18.5 million. That's hard for Boston to get to. Drummond? Even hard.

Any chance? Any chance they punt? I'm personally not a drummond fan. Miles Turner, you mentioned him earlier in the year. I don't think he's getable. No chance. What else he got? Dwayne Deadman?

Nope. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of where we are in terms of guys that you would, I mean, unless you're, unless you go get your guy Mo Bamba. You want to go get Mo Bamba? I think what I think what Bamba, definitely not Bamba. He doesn't defend like a like he's his size.

I wish they would have given old Taco some run. Bamba has long term potential as a, I still really like Bamba's long term potential as a potential high level two-way player. And he shows the flashes on the defensive end of the floor right now. But the consistency is not there. He still needs to get a lot better for him to be a, a guy you would put it next to a Joel and

beat in the series. But Thompson is the type of guy, but again, the salary is too much. For Boston, I think what the type of movie probably have to go for is more like a Bertons or a Covington or somebody like that and just try to out be small.

Yeah, yeah. I think that you need to play into your strengths there. Like using your Tice salary filler perhaps in order to get a deal for a guy making money in that range. Yeah. All right. So you watched that game last night and clearly Mbid was fantastic. Tobias Harris was good last night too. But if we are looking at that and we're saying in the limited amount of matchups we are going to

see between these teams during the regular season and we think about the fact that these could be, you know, this could be a Final Four game in the Eastern Conference. Do you sit there and watch that game and think either of these teams needs to fix something by the time they would meet up in the highest leverage situation. Sure. I don't think there's any perfect team in the league right now. It's unlike past years with Golden State, it feels more like what we're used to in a way with imperfect top teams in the league.

Every team has a flaw. You could still say Philly could use more shooting. You could still say that, that they could use a guy who can handle the ball more often at the end of games. But that's also another thing that's hard to find. And just like for Boston, it'll be hard to find a center. Let's move on to another thing that took place yesterday, which is Dallas and Detroit playing a game in Mexico City.

Adam Silver announcing that a G-League team is going to be in Mexico City. It was very funny. Did you see this press conference at all? I did not see the presser. Okay, Adam Silver was announcing this. And he said, you know, he was thanking all of these people. And God bless him, there were some names that were very difficult. to pronounce and he did exceedingly well.

But then he said, and I'd really like to thank my deputy commissioner, Mark Cuban. And he goes, oh, not Mark Cuban, Mark Tatum. It was an unbelievable slip. His deputy commissioner, Mark Cuban. But I saw you did tweet about this briefly. It is going to be the 29th team added to the G League. What do you make of the NBA expanding this to Mexico? City. It's great. It's great. They've been laying the groundwork there in Mexico for years now

with playing games there and for them to have a G-League team. I know there's excitement in Mexico for NBA basketball, so hopefully for the NBA that they're able to develop a fan base for this new team there. And that could get more kids into basketball, you know, at young ages going to games, wanting to pick up a basketball. And that continues further growing the game, generating interests in the sport of basketball, this great sport that we're fortunate to cover, Chris, and fortunate to watch as fans. Right now, I will look at the NBA,

and personally, I love the NBA right now more than I ever have. I think there's so many vibrant personalities and interesting teams, and I think that's why, you know, we talk about ratings, dipping, and all that. There's so many factors with that, but it's undeniable that interest in basketball is at least increasing on social media. And I think that's a response to just how great the game is now. And so for Mexico to add a team, that's great in terms of interest for fans.

It's great for business. And long term, as I tweeted last night, I do wonder, and of course, this is not a conversation now. But I do think maybe if this team in Mexico City is a great success, will the NBA at some point potentially expand adding a 31st and 32nd team? And naturally, if it's a success there, one of those teams could be in Mexico City. Hmm. I don't know. Long term. They have far away.

Is that, you know, I mean, I guess they have talked about all manner of places where the NBA could expand. You know, yeah, it's interesting to think about it in 10 or 20 years. Yeah. Long term. How many teams are there? And our teams just relocated into different parts of the map. possibly the global map or do we still are they adding?

You know what I mean? Are we going to look up and it's a league of 34 or 36 teams? Sure. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it stands to reason that with the global ascension of the game, you theoretically in 10, 20 years could have enough good basketball players. You know what I mean?

Like you wouldn't be mega watered down by. adding extra teams that there are, that there will be plenty of guys, uh, that could feasibly be NBA basketball players, but the league only holds 400 something at this point, right? Yes. Yeah, exactly.

And it's, you know, right now that the league is deeper perhaps than it's ever been. Of course, everybody talks about Jamal Crawford not being in the league. Everybody was talking about how Carmelo wasn't in the league. There's a lot of other great players around the world who choose not to be in the league. We saw Miratich leave this summer for a wealthy contract overseas.

There's guys that could play that there's jobs for in the NBA, either at the back of benches or in rotations. And so for the NBA, Adam Silver said earlier this year that they're not in expansion mode. And that's 100% true from everything I've heard in recent years. They are not an expansion mode. But long term, though, it is in the league's best interests, or it is at least something on their mind. to expand to 31 or 32 teams.

And will we see that anytime soon? No, no, we won't. But having a team in Mexico City at least is continuing to build that foundation up of basketball in a new country, in a new major market, Mexico City, where you're generating interest in maybe, maybe, maybe someday could be a place for an actual franchise. But until then, though, Chris, that's a team, that's a place that you have a G-League team playing games, it's a place that you could use as a site for midseason tournament or plan tournaments. You could use it for a myriad of different reasons. But for now, though, it's just about building

up potentially for that long-term goal. Yeah, you have no idea how things are going to play out in 10 or 20 years because the truth is, you know, he is now 20. 20 years ago, if I would have told you there is a guy that's going to have 20 straight games of 25 and 5 from Slovenia. You'd have been like, What? Like, what do you talk? I mean, the guy was going to take the world by storm, and he was going to be, you know, and he's playing, by the way, that the draw at a game in Mexico City in 20 years is going to be a 20-year-old Slovenian kid who is, you know, shattering all kinds of records. And then in that game they played there yesterday, he had 41, 12, and 11. There ain't a kid that was at that game in Mexico City that doesn't want to be Luca after they watch that.

Did you see the response to him speaking flawless Spanish before the game? Poor Blake Griffin. Poor Blake Griffin. I thought it was funny. No, did you see him? He said, I knew I should have gone first. It made for a great comedic moment, though. It did.

It was a great moment. Blake Griffin is legitimately funny. Like, I've seen him in those, you know, the roast things and whatever. He's a funny guy. He's got jokes. But that was a pretty quick-witted. rather than just living in the embarrassment of it. I mean, good grief.

I would not have expected Luke Godotje's to just grab that mic and then just be speaking flawless Spanish to the audience at hand. Well, he speaks four languages. I know. I believe Mina Kimes had this in her 2018 profile. He speaks Slovenian, of course, English, Spanish, as we saw last night, in Serbian as well. Unbelievable.

Chris, what language did you take in high school? Oh, gosh. Spanish. Spanish. Yes. And my, I had a teacher, Signor de Luca, and he hated me. I mean, hated me. And he was the one teacher I had throughout high school. Like, he would call my father at work. Really? Yes. About the way I acted in class. And, oh, God. I mean, I could, I could not stand this guy. How did you act in class? I was just like, I was like class clown. You know what I mean? Like I was. Yeah. I was. was just goofing all the time. Imagine. So same as you are now. Yeah. I mean, I was just good. Yes. I was good. I was, I was goofing all the time. He was a, he was a dope. I mean, and I knew, and I knew when I was a kid, he was a dope. You know what I mean? And so he was a dope. We're watching these, like, I remember we had to, like, watch this, like, movie, right? And it was, like, different people saying me gusto and no may gusto. And, and then there was, like, I remember. uh me gusta i used always said megusta el balancesto right i like basketball or megusta la bibliotheca

like anytime he i like the library like anytime he would ask me to say something i would say the same things and i don't know i didn't take it seriously i know very little i i you know i i i have retained very little the guy was a dope he always tried to call my dad the guy always tried to call my dad and get me in trouble at home, which he was successful at. And so, I mean, look at that, I, I wish I would have had a different teacher for Spanish. I see. It would have served me much better in life. Do you, can you speak it well or no? No, I actually, and it was in junior high, we had three language classes, Spanish, French, and Latin. And we didn't get to choose which language we got put into. And they put me in French class. Oh, the language of love, Kevin O'Connor. They put me in French

class in seventh and eighth grade and then in high school I could choose and I chose French for the easy grade but in hindsight I should have taken Spanish it's just as an American Spanish would be the more valuable language to learn because we have more Spanish speaking people and French was nice to learn even though I forget nearly everything you've never you've never used the I speak French to try to get girls no no no I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't remember anything except for... What a colossal error in judgment. I know, I know.

It's... I wish I could have... I wish I had been able to retain it. It perhaps could have been valuable in my dating life. Yes. You could just say I speak fluent French. I know. Right?

What a missed opportunity, huh? Can you say anything besides Frank Nilakina? Or, as you said last week, Dante X-O. Oh, yeah. Australia killed me. for that. Dude, that was hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. I got it in my mind that he had eaten so many bignets, which is obviously French cuisine. And so I attributed him to France. I was surprised as many Australians still wanted to claim him, honestly, but whatever. Yeah, but though, can you say anything in

French? Give me something. Like, me me me so much. Like, me so much. Oh, come on. Anybody can say that. Tell me something good. I don't have anything good. Really? I don't. You can't say I want to go to lunch or nothing? No, I can't.

You can't say, can you say, I like basketball? Like I could. No. I think I like is like Jertam. Like, uh, jitom. I don't know what basketball was in French. I'm pretty sure. You're an embarrassment.

You didn't pay attention. No, I didn't. I think that's why we get. along. You probably were to the guy that would have been laughing at my stupid jokes in the classes. Oh, 100% would have been. I was not, look, I was, to me, and this is not a message to kids. And look, I don't, my wife, my wife does not let me talk to my kids about school. School was a means for me to get to do what I wanted to do, you know, I did get good grades. I did pay attention enough, but it was not like something that I, and I goofed too much.

That's for sure. Well, I mean, we're getting into a deeper topic here, but I wish I wish schools would teach more fundamental skills, like how to save money, how to file taxes, how like things like that that you're using. And I think there are certain teachers across the country who are like, I do do that. And because they're using math class to teach practical activities. And I think that's a great thing. There's a lot of incredible teachers that I've had in my life.

life. There's a lot of great teachers out there who listen to this podcast and a lot of amazing teachers that make a big difference in people's lives. But there are certain sometimes the curriculum curriculum is determined by the state. And that's that's the situation in which that sometimes kids aren't getting the education that they need. And teachers that are actually teaching that curriculum know it when they're doing it. Trust me, Kevin. Look, there is a reason I'm not the one giving a message. My wife's a teacher. She's been a teacher. She's got her master's in it. My mother has been a teacher her entire life and was a college professor. And like, so I am a good grief. When I have to help them with school, I'm a disaster. I mean, that whole, that whole,

are you smarter than a fifth grader? The answer is no. I had to do some English homework the other night, help him out. Oh, God. I was, I'm looking stuff up on my phone. You're like the kid You're like the kid in the back of class With his phone hidden by his side I know about basketball That's what I do Your kid's like dad

What are you doing on your phone? Nothing. Nothing work stuff You're actually looking up the answers That's what I'm doing All right We gotta take a quick break This is parent corner

Yeah this is parent corner Our own parent corner Shout out to Bill Simmons podcast We'll take a quick break We'll be right back after these words All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. I want to remind everybody today's show brought to you by Mountain Dew. This NBA season, Mountain Dew, is all about the threes, the shot that's changing the game.

You know, I mentioned Devante Graham in one of these recently. He did it again the other night with the 40-point night for the Charlotte Hornets. Brought to you by Mountain Dew, the official beverage of the NBA, Do the Duke. Today's show also brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. Unexpected like the New Orleans Pelicans now losing 10 games in a row.

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slash NBA. All right, Kevin, since we last spoke on Tuesday, the Knicks did get rid of David Fisdale. I was very happy that I had plugged that in there. By the time you listen to this, he might be gone. And sure enough, it was that afternoon. He was gone. And now the attention turns to what happens. What do you think?

Do you think this is going to be, do you think when this all flushes out, what we're going to find is it's all new management? and at that point, that new management is going to get to choose their own coach. Or do you think this is just going to continue to be something where we look at it and we go, what are they doing? I mean, if you're factoring in history here, it's probably going to be, what are we doing? Yeah. Based off the last two decades.

However, I think there's enough smoke and maybe even a little bit of fire that James Dolan's going to throw a lot of money at Masayu Jiri. Well, and you know what? You know what? Did not hit big news? This did not make big news, but I did read recently that he recently turned down an extension from the Raptors. Yeah. Howard Becker Bleacher Report reported that.

And look, man, like, I don't know. And I believe Howard's reporting. I've heard so much mixed stuff. I've heard from some of my closest sources, as I'm sure Howard has. that Maasai did not sign the extension, but I've also heard from some other people that I trust that he did. Like there's a lot of put it this way. I would,

I believe that he did not sign the extension based off what I've heard. However, there's a lot of confusion within the NBA of whether he did or not in recent months. That's fascinating. I say that, I say that to contextualize the conversation around Masay Ujiri. Right. There's a lot of people who don't know.

Well, that makes a huge difference. Yeah. Exactly. If he signed the extension or if he didn't. Of course, exactly. So I definitely can personally support Howard's reporting based off the conversations I've had that he did not sign the extension. However, there are people out there have said he has. And that's from people that I trust.

And it's kind of hard to get a read on whether he did or not. Then that just sort of captures everything around Maasai right now with the Knicks noise, whether he did or didn't sign the extension. who knows what his future looks like. And from Masayu Jiri, I know everybody says, like, why would he leave Toronto? And my first instinct is that as well. Like, why would he leave this situation in Toronto? He has a great team there already.

Granted, they've struggled recently. A very good situation with cap space coming up, flexibility to do it his own way, which is what he wanted in the beginning when he took the job. He wanted to blow it up immediately, and he didn't. And it worked out. They won a championship after trading for Kauai and Marcus Sol, and they had a special, special year.

And he has everything that he needs there. However, with New York, that is also a place for him to have a platform to do all the types of things that he does outside of basketball to continue growing his own name and his own causes to keep growing the game in Africa,

keep promoting the game and doing all the stuff he does away from the front office. And what better market to do that than New York, not to mention, from a basketball standpoint, say what you want about James Dolan as an owner. And he is certainly imperfect. He is incredibly flawed, probably one of the worst owners in all of sports.

However, one of the things that he is good at is letting his front offices do what they want to do. And that has been to his own detriment in the past because of poor hires. However, if you're letting Messiah do what he wants, who has been proven to be just, excellent evaluator of talents, a fearless decision maker who has relationships across the league to make big deals. If you're letting that guy do what he wants, but after throwing him a ton of money, I think suddenly the Knicks are in good shape. All right. I would tell you that the reason to stay in Toronto is because of Pascal Seacum and the future that you have there, but more so than anything, the fact that if we wanted to reference Toronto ownership,

I will freely admit I could not. I don't even know who the owner is there. And that is the greatest compliment I can give them. If you want to talk about getting out of the way, the fact that your average NBA fan, and I am freely admitting. They don't have a singular owner. It's MLSC, Maple Leaf Sports Entertainment. It's a group of people.

Right. And do you even know who the voice is if I was going to tell you? Like it's not like somebody is out there or that you think like, oh, well, their ownership. Like we don't even know about them. We don't even know about it. And he, that's his show. When you think of Toronto, you think of Maasai. And you can say all you want about James Dolan getting out of the way. When people think of the Knicks, they think of James Dolan because he has been the constant. and you can say he gets out of the way until he makes his, you know,

goofy front office have a press conference after a game explaining things away and sending out tweets and statements that are ridiculous after free agency apologizing. Like literally the night of free agency. You think it's not James Dolan that makes them send out an apology? I know. Or would the rumors happen with Fisdale

and then they have front office out there? Yeah, I know. I know. there would be significant risk in Messiahe Ujiri leaving the Raptors for the Nix. Would I do it? I don't know. I think it depends on the money. Yeah, if you're getting paid $100 billion.

Yeah, if you're given some equity in MSG or something like that too, I mean, that's, then it's really serious. But I think that the logic can go into the next look. Okay, let's just a backtrack here. I was on Bill Simmons podcast in October or maybe it was early November. and I said in passing, we're talking about the team that's least hopeful. This is when the Kings were, I think, 0 and 5.

And Bill had said, the Knicks are least hopeful. And I said, in passing, are the Knicks really less hopeful than the Kings right now? And what I meant by that was a couple of things. The fact that, and what I was factoring in was you can't deny the advantage of being in a big market. You just can't. And for New York, that franchise has been a disaster for two decades. But if they're able to change their reputation, if they're able to change the way they're perceived. Change owners.

Well, yeah. And whatever form it is, if you're able to change that, you're still the new, you're New York. And that's what I meant by that. And I still feel that way to an extent. Sacramento is, of course, in a far superior basketball situation. That goes without saying, but that was saying in the moment when they were 0 and 5. But I only bring this up to say the Knicks still play in New York City. And if they're able to get a guy like Maasai Ujiri by throwing him a boatload of money that Toronto isn't willing to match or come close to, it's worth it for them because of the investment in the payoff that could come from players that would eventually come to that city and want to come to that city, they got to do everything they can to get to Maasai or somebody like Maasai.

They have to. They have to. All right, Kevin. Next thing, after our, since we last spoke, there have been continued recent free falls for two different teams. One, the Pelicans, and theirs is immense. It's now 10 losses in a row. And Minnesota, the other one, who's been in a little free fall here with six games that they have now lost in a row.

Let me start with the Pelicans, because you had brought up, you'd even throw JJ Reddick's name out there, a few days ago. And David Griffin has continued to say, we are trying to win and we have not done a good job of it. I mean, at what point does that change?

All right, let me... So that's number one. Number two, and this has not been talked about all that much. Dude, have you seen this Reggie Miller stuff where he keeps coming out all the time saying that Zion won't play this season? Like, he's the only one saying that.

but it's bizarre to me. Like, he keeps on saying that. Like, I keep telling people, you're not going to see him this year, or there's a real good chance of Zion's not even going to play this season. And I don't know where that's coming from, but he even did it. He even tweeted it out the other night again. And it doesn't, like, gain a ton of traction, I guess, because it's Reggie,

and he's not necessarily known for NBA reporting. But he does keep saying that, you know? which is strange. I did see that tweet earlier this week. I've been saying this tweet, that one. Yeah. What is he talking about? I hope he's wrong.

I hope he's wrong too. But I don't know why he keeps saying that. And yet there's not been, like that certainly has not been newsbreaker news. Like it's just because of his role that he has right now that I think people are just kind of like, yeah, whatever. But he is saying there's somebody out there saying

that we're not going to see Zion. on this season. I don't know. Who knows? I don't know either. I hope he's wrong, too. I mean, I personally don't care if Zion plays his rookie year. We've seen other great players missed their rookie seasons.

Ben Simmons, of course, Blake Griffin, and then they play their rookie season the next year. And that's okay. The important thing is that Zion is 100% healthy before he returns. Whether that's this season or not, I don't know. I don't care. I just hope he gets into full health. But the best, best possible shape in order to have. a long, successful career.

The reason I say it so, Kev, the reason I bring that up is because knowing that information would, I believe, if you are in their front office or whatever it may be, that would change your, that would change your idea of, you know, hey, do we try to keep running this out there and hope that we can win eight out of ten, you know, at some point when we get Zion back and get back in this mix and maybe scratch and claw for an eighth seed because even as dreadful as they've been and even though they have lost 10 games in a row, it is, it's not like anyone is super running away for them. They're five and a half out of the eighth seed right now, which should not be so, but it is.

They're five and a half out. And so you could convince yourself like, hey, if we could win eight out of ten, you know, we get Zion back. but if you know you're not getting Zion back, you become a seller at this, right? Don't you become a seller at this as of Sunday? Maybe, maybe, or you're building for next year

and you want to keep this core around. Because right now, like, what is this team missing? It's missing a rim protector, an experience room protector. Jackson Hayes is too young. They're missing favors right now. He, O'Kerfor is not an offensive player in that role as a pick and roll

defender. So if you're the Pelicans, you're looking at your defense and look, there's a lot of issues on this team, on the defensive end of the floor. But rim protection is the number one issue. They have super underachieved, Kev. I know they have. I mean, they got one more

win than the friggin warriors. I know. I know. I know. But like, rim protection is something that needs to improve drastically. And you're very young at that position in that role. And so if you're in New Orleans, you might want to keep the rest of this intact and then try and plug and play somebody who can do that this summer through trade or free agency or maybe

these young guys continue to get better because it's not like these players are bad just not working and also the other factor could be maybe you look at coaching after the season too it may not be after the season that you look at it um how much lanzo stock do you still own a little bit a little yeah i like i mean it's 37% from the field 33% from three i know it's It's rough. I like Lonzo. I think that we're kind of seeing who he is, though. And that's a, and he's a role player who's a majestic passer, but he is the shooting detriment really, really hurts. And he's a good defensive player as well, though not quite the same level this year. And same is true for Ingram. He's been a good defensive player in the past. Not this year. How much of that is scheme versus effort versus the team is just losing a lot of games? I don't know. It's probably a combination of all of that. But these guys, are better than they've performed overall in the defensive end of the floor.

Yeah. And it's kind of weird mix. They've got a bunch of guys that are like, you know, probably best suited to play shooting guard where, you know, Drew Holliday can certainly play off the ball. J.J. Reddick, Josh Hart, Lonzo, Etouan Moore. Like, they got all of these guys that are. And so that makes it so that they're rookie who I loved. Like, he has not been good in very limited minutes, but he doesn't.

get run, which is strange for a team that loses every friggin' night. You know what I mean? You'd figure you'd just start starting Nikiel Alexander Walker and like just get him out there and get him playing. But you do have some vets in the way. So that's the interesting thing about what they do. And the other team that you had mentioned in your article was Minnesota. Does this frame what they should be doing whether or not their buyers or sellers?

This six game losing streak and being two and eight in their last 10. If I remember correctly, we did talk about Covington on Tuesday. We did. We did. And I would sort of just echo those thoughts that for Minnesota, I think you have to really look in the mirror here and think about long term, you have towns locked up. This is the first year of his five-year contract. You have time here.

And they need to be building for that year, three, year, four, year, five of that contract to peak. And that's why they went hard after DeAngelo Russell this offseason, unfortunately, for them they did not get him. But for Russell, he's a guy who could help. He could have helped accelerate the rebuild now, but maybe peaked in a couple of years. That needs to be the priority for Minnesota.

And I would try to shop Robert Covington because I don't, this team could potentially slip into the seventh or eight C, but what does that get you besides the spanking? Chris, what does that get you? You know? It's like, yes, great, you made the playoffs. But I think it was better in the best long-term interest of this team is adding a guy who can help you peek in a couple of years.

You certainly don't want to be bad, bad, though, because you do want to be able to have players want to play there. You won't be. You won't be because you have Carl Anthony Towns, one of the best young players in the game. And yet, even Towns this year, it's another repeat after his unbelievable start. Unbelievable start to the season, Chris.

He's not shooting with the same frequency he did earlier in the year. that bothers me. That bothers me. Yeah. And so they're a fascinating one because it's been, they really want to make the playoffs. So do they go out and they try to attain a point guard? They try to make that team, you know, make some additions because you could argue that they are,

you know, just a few pieces away if they could, if they could make the right moves from being able to feel like, hey, we are going to get one of those seven or eights. But you say it might not be that value. to be seven or eight this particular year. It's going to be very fascinating because we are only two days away, Kev, from when everybody becomes tradable.

So who are you most fascinated? One more thing, though. One more thought on both Minnesota and New Orleans. How much of there issues do you think are due to the lack of having a reliable and steady playmaker? because look at Minnesota. Their primary is Jeff Teak. And then on New Orleans, you know,

you have Lonzo who can't shoot well. You have Ingram who can handle the ball a bit, but he's not a pure number one playmaker. You have Drew Holliday, who's more of a traditional throwback combo guard. How much do these teams get hurt from not having that more traditional or at least elite high level passing presence? because town so often he has mismatches or he's open and he doesn't get delivered the ball.

And they've also been going into games where they don't even play a point guard. You know what I mean? With Jared Calver. Yeah, you've seen him. Of course. And I said Teague was their primary. He was the primary entering the season. Now you have Culver as their starter.

Which he is not. Yes, exactly. That is not. I mean, when Culver was coming out, did anybody sit there? and say this guy is the guy that's going to bring the ball up the court and initiate your offense. I mean, he's a talented kid, but that's not what anybody foresaw as the role. Sure.

I think the potential is there. I mean, like the subhead on my skittering report on him and the draft guide is, quote, Versatile Wing who can fill a myriad of roles and has a lane to become a primary shot creator if his handle keeps improving. So the potential was there, Chris. It's just the handle wasn't at the level. that it needed to be to your point, that he didn't necessarily need to do that in college. But he's always had the passing ability.

And this sort of touches on the Frank Nillikina conversation and debate you and I always have. Nila Kina has great passing vision. It's just he doesn't have great ball handling ability. And same thing as with the truth with Culver. Same thing is also true with Lonso Ball. Lanzo Ball is a fantastic passer in the open floor who, when he's on the drive, can make just these unbelievable passes on the perimeter, darts in the shot pocket to shooters or finding cutters.

However, he doesn't have a dribble that breaks down defenders. True for Culver, true for Nilakina. And that's the secret sauce to unlocking these guys as a next level playmaking. I also think, and again, there's going to be people there that,

like, this is not something that is said, that you can see on paper. And so there are going to be those that are out there that discount it, like, oh, yeah, you always talk about things that you can't even quantify. But anybody that's seen that team play in person, they need a leader. Who inspired that impression?

They have, I don't know. That's just what I. I like that one. That was a different one. You're welcome. They don't have a leader. They don't. Like, where things are not going their way or they start taking some crappy shots that says,

this is, this is stopping. Like, and their veterans are like, you know, like, T, I'm sure he'd rather be somewhere else, and he's not even starting now. Covington just kind of came into that mix. I mean, everybody knows that's Towns and Wiggins team. But we saw Jimmy Buckets drag them along. And you need a guy like that. You need somebody that is the, this isn't happening, not tonight.

Like, this run isn't happening. We're not going to keep taking these crappy shots. Like, they don't have, they don't have that leader on the floor. When you watch them, and I've seen them twice in person, they don't, there's nobody that rallies them, you know, because they're all kind of these passive aggressive personalities rather than, you know, somebody that's going to rally these guys and, you know, somebody that's going to speak to them, you know, get it all in line. And I do think they need that on that team. I don't know, you know, it's hard to find that and just throw him into the locker room and throw him into onto the team. But they need that edge and somebody that is willing to speak up. Because when things start, when the wheels start coming off, when you're watching that team, there's nobody that's a leader.

Nobody. You know, we'll see. I don't know. They're in a very interesting position and we don't really know all that much about how this Gerson-Ros house is going to. to, you know, what he wants to do with this franchise and what his timeline is. You know what I'm saying? Is he thinking, hey, I won't have this job all that long if I don't turn this team into a playoff team with a quickness?

Or is he going, this is for the long haul, and I'm going to make decisions based upon that. Well, Gerson said this summer after he was hired that he does want to be aggressive and building around cat. However, I had heard at the time when Russell Westbrook was on the block that Minnesota wasn't even interested in him. And that I think considering that they were interested in D'Angelo or Russell and they were not interested in Russell Westbrook, there could be reasons for that with Westbrook's

playing style and his talent level. However, I think the age difference is the greatest indicator there that they do want guys that fit the timeline with Carl Anthony Towns. All right. So that would be my initial thought. Last thing with this day that everyone can be traded just a few days away, who are you most fascinated by? Obviously, Andre Aguadala's name's been out there since the very beginning of the season.

He is one of the few that has not played at all, but contenders really desire him. You have brought up Covington. You have mentioned Reddick in passing in an article. and then we talked about Kevin Love last week and maybe some of the veteran guys off that Cleveland team. Who are you most fascinated with that you think once that day hits could be on the move before we have to wait until the trade deadline in February?

I mean, I don't think anybody will move right away and that could always change, but I've heard similar to what's been reported from others that it's probably going to be quiet at the start, and this is the type of thing where a lot of, that's because a lot of teams are still figuring out who they are. There's a lot of teams that still feel like they have a chance. You mentioned earlier in this podcast,

New Orleans only five and a half games out of the eighth seed. And they've lost 10 in a row. Yeah. 10 in a row and they're five and a half out. I don't even know how that's possible. As silly as it sounds, you could even say Washington, three and a half out. of the eight seed.

If you're watching, you could be like, if only we get our defense fixed, and we can build around this stud, developing stud we have in Bradley Beale, one of the best shooters in basketball and Burr-Tans, an impressive young rookie and Rui Hachammer. You can even say that.

So teams are still figuring out who they are and then what they want to be, and what are the moves that they have to make to become that. And I wouldn't expect anything immediately. In terms of what I'm most fascinated by, You know, we've talked about Kevin Love. We talked earlier about Stephen Adams, Gallinari, Chris Paul,

you know, Marcus Morris, all these guys, Andre Gaudela. We've talked about those guys to sort of rewind to something from a couple of weeks back. I am fascinated by the Spurs. I do wonder, will they at some point look in the mirror and say,

we want to try to trade De Marderosa and or Lamarcus Aldridge to a team that thinks it has a shot? and is there a deal out there that's actually worth it for them? Because Lonnie Walker's been playing pretty well lately, but it's hard to find consistent minutes for him. It's hard to play their young guards together because of the presence of Demarta Rosen.

And with Marcus Aldridge, next year having his guarantee date moved up, likely guaranteeing his contracts, does he become a target for a team that needs a big man and has salaries to work for him, but doesn't want somebody long term. If you're the Spurs, it's similar logic to what we just said

with Covington this week, Chris, that if you're Minnesota and you put Covington on the block, he suddenly becomes arguably the number one target in the free agent market, I mean, in the trade market, sorry. And teams would be lining up around the corner for him.

And if you're San Antonio, I'm not quite sure DeRosen or Aldridge would generate the same interest, but there would be some teams that would look at DeRosen and say, wow, look at what he did last. year as a primary ball handler. DeVosan was good. He was good passing the ball. If you're Orlando, why wouldn't you be targeting DeMardo Rosen when you are trying to make the postseason when

that's important to your franchise to get there and to compete? It's a shame that Aldridge napalmed the bridge to Portland years ago. That actually wouldn't be that bad of a fit. That was the first name that I thought of. Bridges could always be rebuilt. Oh, God. No, Portland Fids would not be,

that would not be a happy reunion. Trust me. That dude, look, I was covering the playoff series when he flew a different plane home than the rest of the team. I've never heard of that

in my life. Like, the ending of that was abysmal, really. Truly abysmal. And he was so, You know, there was all that jealousy of Lillard and how much they were promoting him and whatever. And it was just a, it was a mess. It was a mess.

Have you ever had a breakup that bad? What, where I flew home separately? No. We still got to ride on the same plane. Kevin, go brush up on your French. And I will talk to you on Tuesday. Got a prep for hopefully a full two-hour sit-down interview someday with Frank Nillikina where we just talk constantly about your hate for him and how you're somewhere.

How dare you? Has he been doing great recently? I haven't gotten anybody tagging me on any tweets recently. So I guess he hadn't done shit. The guy makes a pass and they're like, look at Frank Nilequina. And look at the promise. this is when people talk about the promise and it'll be like him throwing a freaking bounce pass and I'll be like oh get out of my Twitter feed seriously he's uh he's shooting well from three

oh is that right shooting out 30 33 percent oh wow congratulations a career high career high wow one out of three times you better run out there you better run out one out three times you pretty pretty good be an all-stared baseball world that average. I'll tell you this, one out of every three times you are going to regret not guarding him. I mean, that 33% is not good when all that shit is wide open. It's wide open. There's nobody within 40 yards of the guy when he takes a three. So good. It's so good. Go brush up by dear French, Kevin O'Creson. We'll do. We'll do. Have a beautiful weekend, everybody.

All right. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you do good, you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Tunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. We will talk to you next week.