The Ringer NBA Show - Mailbag: First-Team All-NBA, Improving Stars, Pop Vs. Phil Jackson, and More | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 24, 2024

Justin is out, so Rob and Wos open up the listener mailbag to answer your questions about who’s on the All-NBA first team, what subtle improvements star players are making, who the greatest coach of all time is, and much more! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Tucker Tashjian Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every true football fan knows that the NFL season truly begins after the Super Bowl champion has been crowned, and the ringer NFL feed will keep you on top of all the news still happening around the league and heading into the 2024-25 season. I'm Sheila Capadia. And every Monday and Friday, Ben Solac and I deliver Sharp takes the debates on the draft, free agency, training camp, and beyond an extra point ticket. And every Wednesday, it will have dual threat where Stephen Ruiz and yours truly, Nora Princeati, dive deep into all of the big offseason developments, with Ringer favorites Austin Gale and Lindsay Jones stopping by occasionally to share their expert football analysis.

Subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and X at Ringer NFL. And welcome to group chat. I am not Justin Barrier, but I am Rob Mahoney. And I am very drunk with the power that Justin has left behind in his absence. and here to share in it with me. The one, the only big Waz, Wazni Lambre, Waz, are you ready to usher in phase two

of group chat today? Super ready. Of course, we start our initial voyage of phase two with substitute teacher vibes. We wheel out the TV. We play a goddamn World War II documentary.

And of course, that means we're having a mail bag today. So, the audience is producing this show for us today. Yeah, we may not even be the substitute teachers, to be honest with you. We may just be the janitors who have cleaned up, who have let the substitute teachers roll in the TV. But the listeners came up big, gave us a ton of great questions for today, a lot to get through.

Honestly, I'm really proud of our little group jazz universe. They always come through when we need them. Yeah, man. I actually, I was pleasantly surprised when I looked at the dock and saw the question that you guys had assembled. I'm like, hey, these guys are running. And some of these questions are references to conversations we've had on previous episodes. So it's like, yeah, these are real heads.

Yeah, and I asked for some people to talk badly about Justin in our emails, and they took the prompt very seriously, I will say. There was a lot of feedback about Justin, about us, about our podcast. A lot of editorial notes to be had. But for today, you know, we've asked our producer, Isaiah Blakely, to be the voice of the people today was to really chime in. on behalf of them. So, Isaiah, if you want to get us started,

what's our first question? Yeah, first question is a fun one. Zander, Melbourne, Tatum, Dran, AD, or Kau for first team All-MBA. Yeah, so this is the first year was that all-N-B-A goes completely positionless, and yet it's still looking like it's going to be pretty traditional in the end. And I'm operating under the assumption that four guys are basically locks. Yokic, Shea, Luca, Janus.

Where would you go with guy number five? Like, where does your heart, pull you at this point of the season. I mean, to me, it's a tossing between KD and Tatum. And just Tatum's Ironman quality, to me, just kind of wins out here. Obviously, the Celtics, they're like 20 and 2 in their last 22. They're kicking everybody's asses. And Tatum is clearly their best player, right?

And I don't, you know, believe in, like, team success, yada, yada, yada. but this guy is there every single game. And KP has missed a ton of time and different guys have been in and out of the lineup. But Tatum has basically been a rock and you got to give him props for that. So to me, I give Tatum the nod there. Are you of the mind?

I know some people try to split the difference philosophically between MVP and All-NBA, that there's some different criteria there. I have a vote. I've never really understood that methodology and making All-NBA position lists. to be honest for me is going to turn it into probably like a top 15 MVP ballot for the most part. Sure.

And that's where Tatum's case is pretty strong. You know, I don't think Tatum's a serious MVP candidate, but is a fifth guy on the ballot with all of the team's success, with as great as he's been individually. And he's one of those players who I think is a little harder for people to play sometimes because he doesn't have that Durant like takeover quality necessarily. He doesn't have the A plus efficiency that some of these other superstars have. But he's so good at so many different things. And when you're thinking about what makes Boston so effective, what makes them so dominant, the versatility that Tatum provides them is as important to anything.

Yes, it's the Swiss Army nature of the entire team. And it's embodied, just like you said, in Tatum, who will go out and guard the best guy on the other team, although I know people don't consider that for all NBA. This is kind of like best offensive players in the league. But I think what he does on the ball, he's gotten better over the years I wish he was a little bit better with the playmaking

but he's gotten better he's made market improvements in that sense yeah I think Tatum is the choice here and even if you want to look at it how we've traditionally done it Tatum is the guy right

whether you want to or not I think the disappointment of what Phoenix has been even at full strength will seep into voters sort of thought process even if you might think KD has been a better overall player. Yeah, and I just think Tatum deserves that reward. Yeah.

Tatum probably will be the guy, if we're all being honest. But I agree with you that it's pretty tiered, with Tatum and Durant being the kind of peers there, and then Kauai and AD being the next runners-up, who second team all-N-B-A, nothing to snuff out. Like, that's a great honor in itself, and a league is stacked as the NBA is right now. But, Isaiah, what do we have next?

It's from Darren. Which team do you think will make it to the Eastern Conference Funnel? first, the Knicks, the Magic, or the Pacers. I found this one pretty interesting, was. Where do you lean as far as the futures of these teams? I think the Knicks right now are better positioned to do so than the other two teams. The Pacers, their best player, has been greatly diminished since his injury. We've talked about this a lot up here.

To me, Halliburton was on an MVP track type of season. before the injury and since he's just been merely very good. And the magic are just really young. It's just hard for me to place a team that young. And it's not just that they're young. They're young guys. There's what's driving their success, right? It's not like, say, even Aunt Edwards is really young,

and he's their best player, but he's buttressed by, you know, Carl Towns and Rudy Gobert. He's a veteran guys. Carl Towns doesn't always play like a veteran in big moments, but whatever. You get my point, Mike Conley. The magic is just too young to me right now. They seem to be well on their way. I'm really looking forward to what they do in the playoffs, you know.

But to me, the Knicks are just the best position team, top the bottom, just a veteran group. And I think they're going to be hell for whoever they're going to be. hell for whoever they play in the postseason, if they're even close to full strength. You get Randall back. They get Mitch back. To me, that's the more formidable Eastern Conference playoff team because of the mix of talent and experience. Yeah, I mean, if conflict makes a podwas, I think we're off to a rough start.

I'm in full alignment with you on Tatum. I'm in full alignment with you on the Knicks. I feel like they're the answer here because they're the one team of these three that could make it this season, right? So we're not even talking perspective. We're talking right now. The only problem with that idea is that the bracket is turned against them a little bit. If the Knicks do end up in that 4-5 where they're on the Celtic side of the bracket,

that's going to be a tougher path to a conference final specifically. But does this team have it in them? Absolutely. Like they are as competitive. There is feisty. There is great defensively. There is resilient offensively as you need to be to make a long playoff run. And you can kind of see it.

Like you can imagine what a charmed run for the Knicks would look like in the way that, you know, the Dame Lillard Blazers would have a charmed run once in a while. Like Brunson has that kind of explosive capability, too. Now, all that being said, wouldn't shock me if the Pacers or the Magic have higher ceilings in the long run of these teams. As we're looking three and four seasons ahead, maybe they ultimately end up being better. But I don't know. I think the Knicks get to the conference finals even sooner than them.

Yeah. To me, out of that three, the Knicks feel like the only team that has it in them to do with this year, obviously they'd have to beat the Celtics to do so, which I find very hard to believe that they would. But, you know, Indy and Orlando, their fans should be excited because they're driven by young guys who have made improvements on their games every single year that they've been in the league. And, you know, you can, that's what we do.

We project upon young guys and say, hey, this guy's going to carry us. the finals one day, clearly. So they can hang their hats on that, but I think in a seven-game series, you know, like how I thought about this question, I would pick the Knicks against either one of these teams in a seven-game series this

year, you know, and we'll see what happens next year. And it's an optimistic framing. You know, there's a version of this question that's who's going to make the conference finals next, the Blazers or the Pistons or the Hornets? And that's like, okay, we're really looking into the distant future. This is

saying all three of these teams are good. All three of these teams are on the rise in their own ways. Who we feel most optimistic about and how soon, which is a great place to be, even if you are the third of these teams to make a potential conference final. Yeah. All right, Isaiah, what do we have? This question is from Orange is Cool. I wanted to ask about the growth of star players. Are there any stars young or old who you have noticed improving their game in some way this season? I feel like this is always a most improved, like second or third guy on the ballot is a star who sneaks in there because they've made some huge jump. I don't know if we have a clean answer

for that sort of candidate this year, but lots of stars was making subtle improvements to their game, always guys shoring things up. I think the one that comes to mind for me, and this is going to be insane because, like, Luca has already had a bunch of huge game-clinching and game-winning step-back jumpers in his career, but Luca's step-back, I think, has leveled up in a huge way,

where it's his command in creating it. It's him knowing how to fake it and play out of that to get to the basket. And maybe most importantly, him being a plus percentage shooter for the first time in his career, 38% from three for Luca, something he's never really been able to convert on high degree of difficulty, but seeing him also pay that off with a huge percentage gain too.

I think it's been really transformative for Dallas. Yeah, I think quiet has kept. Lucas' step back has been a pretty inefficient shot overall in the beginning portions of his career. It's just he's made so many big ones, we just assumed that it was this ultimate weapon, but a lot of times it was hovering in the 29, 30% range when he was doing that step back three

and that he's making it more regularly and that it's an unguaritable shot, like you can't stop him from getting to it. Yeah, that's a major, major improvement. For me, I think about, especially because they said it was stars, right? I think stars are always, like, improvements on the margins, like, take these guys to such way higher levels, right? So I think about Dame Lillard, where very early on in his career, his biggest weakness was getting to the cup. Yeah.

He didn't do it enough. And when he did, he just wasn't getting to the line. He wasn't finishing. Like, his finishing percentage was super low. Like, it was a clear weakness. And he got that thing cracking. And that took his game to the next level where he was just like, all right, Dame Lillard is now an offense unto himself.

There's nothing you can do with him. And in that same vein, I think Aunt Edwards has gotten better on his drives at finding the contact. He still needs to work on his balance. I feel like he's super unbalanced when he's on his drive. so he can't be as explosive. He can't read and react as well as other guys. He's not as under control as other guys on his drives, right?

Like, I think about a shade on his drives and how, like, he's just so in the pocket when he's doing that. Just a little subtle moves. Like, he's the highest level of this. It at least is finding contact. So he's getting more free throws because of it. The next level again will be just being more well balanced, more under control on the drives. But figuring out like, yo, while I'm down here, I'm going to make sure these guys hit me.

That's just a big improvement. And we say this all the time. Getting to the Frito line is what takes you from, all right, this guy is really good to, no, this guy is dominant. Because when your jump shot isn't falling, when for whatever reason you're having other, struggles, if you can reliably get those hyper-efficient looks at the free throw line with regularity in the biggest games and biggest moments, to me, that's what takes you to the next level. It's dope to see Ant getting there.

And what's been sick about Ants season two is he's doing all that. He's also doing a lot more mental processing, creating out of pick and roles, making really advanced reads and trying to grow in that way. And so when you think about putting yourself in a player's head like that, you're trying to trying to get to the basket aggressively. You're trying to draw contact. You're reading both lines of defense. You're also trying to be aware of your teammates.

You're also trying to know, okay, this is the spot my coaches have been telling me about where I need to spray out to this shooter. This is the spot where I need to read this defense that way. The mental gymnastics you have to go through to do all that at once is why Anthony Edwards is on a trajectory, unlike few players in the NBA right now. He can just go up and up and up. But then also, I think what makes that even hard, for a guy like aunt is knowing that at any given point you can just break a dude down and take

and take a like a decently open shot off the dribble right yeah um and so it's nice to see him finding his way that way well or break a dude down and send them to the graveyard effectively right really buried them it must be nice but i think this has been a great year for stars subtly leveling up their games you know you mentioned shay in terms of his creation but i think his defense has been awesome this season. And he's a guy who puts a lot of pressure in the passing lanes, but also by just being so aggressive on defense, playing up into people, playing up into their lanes. He runs a lot of possessions off the rails just by being around, just by being active. And you can see those sorts of subtle things, whether it's him, whether it's Aunt Edwards,

on the ball. Lots of young guys improving defensively in the way you would want to see from your emerging stars. Yeah, Shay's level of craft is just moderate. blowing to watch on a night to night basis. And his rookie year in 2019, if you got the Clipper games pretty early, like he was always working with Sam Consell. And, you know, I'm like, I'm in my head. I'm like, how much does this shit actually even work, right?

Like, how much is this actually even being applied, right? Like, just being cynical about it. And then I watched, you know, an interview with Shady the other day where he was talking about what's the key to his success. He just says consistency. He says, I'm just doing this shit every day, bro. I am living this every day. And Sam Cassell, for the whippers, you don't know, one of the craftiest players we have ever seen in the NBA. And so it's cool as he's shade putting that into practice every single day.

Well, the shit he's doing every day now is dropping 30, every game. Like as reliable 30 as you will find in the NBA right now, which that's another way in which a young player is kind of gaining ground and finding new life as a star. It's like it's not just about can you go for 35. It's what do you do on a nightly basis? What is the variance in your game-to-game performance? And that's why the Thunder are where they are right now, because Shay can do that every single game. And that's why apparently Jalen Green is doing it every single game. Much to the warrior's chagrin.

Things get real tight out there in that West playing race. I can't say I expected that. All right. What's next for us, Isaiah? This question's from shy. There's a lot of talk about foul calls given the out of control offensive numbers around the NBA. But I think the main culprit is really the corner three. What if we created a paint in the corner three zone and then implemented an offensive

three second rule for that zone? If half court offenses couldn't park shooters in the corner for an entire possession, that would put a premium on ball movement, cutting, and vision all the things people like to see. Was, you seem skeptical. This sounds like some shit Adam Silver would dream up. And absolutely not. And the reason why

is because, one, defenses are hip to the fact that teams really want this shot. They have been for like 14 years now, right? And it's the NBA. Yes. So two things can be true. Yes, that's the closest three-point shot,

but also it's the closest shot to close out on guys. The best athletes in the world can close out and eliminate that shot if they make it a priority. Now, when guys like Luca and you know, Steph

and Dame and these guys are taking 28 footers, that's what I'm just like, sorry, defense. Like, how can you cover that ground, right? But the corner three, when teams want to take that out, routinely they do, Rob.

when they prioritize it. I think the question is, do, does the way the game is played now and the way the court is set up, does it incentivize them to take away that corner shot? Because there's a reason why it's still left open in a lot of different matchups by a lot of different teams. And it's because they want to take away the basket.

They want to take away, whether it's a 28-footer or not, whatever Steph or Luca is doing, you know, the star on the other team. And so often that's kind of the thing you give up, is that weak side corner three or sometimes the strong side corner three, honestly. I thought this is a clever idea and there's something about

you know there's always talk about can you change the three point arc to just take away the corner three right run the arc into the sidelines and take away the corner entirely you're out on even that idea I hate that I hate that idea I think

maybe figure out a way to not squeeze every single dime out of the damn games and move some of them people back. How about that? I know they don't want to do that because, yeah, like these courtside and whatever, whatever.

To me, that should be the solution. If somebody wants to tell me we want to make the corner three further out. Oh, no, no, no, not make it further out, but just take it out. Basically make it so it's just above the break threes, I think is the general proposition as far as, like, removing the corner three goes.

I guess I'd have to see it. Maybe they should try it out in the G league since that's what we do with these hoop ideas. My instinct is that I'm against this as an idea. I don't blame you. And I will say, I think it's a clever idea by Shai here, like creating a three-second violation for the corner. I see where you're coming from. I see what we're doing and what we're trying to eliminate. With all these rules, anytime you're changing the geometry of the court,

there's huge potential for unintended consequences. consequences. And when you think about what the corner three does, and one of the things that shy suggested is like, okay, this might lead to more movement and more cutting, like more orchestration in the offense, think about the offenses that have a lot of movement. They park one guy in the corner because the reality is if you're trying to orchestrate five offensive players and their defenders at the same time, Sacramento, perfect example, Harrison Barnes, you go stand in the corner. You know, Indiana, Aaron Neesmith, you go stand in the corner. For the Knicks, Divencenzo, O. Giannovi, you guys go stand in the corner.

you need that pressure release because if you have to have all of these pieces of clockwork operating at just the right cadence and frequency all the time, guys are just going to run into each other. I feel like if you take away the corner three, NBA basketball is going to start looking like college basketball very quickly, a lot of like passing around the perimeter for 20 seconds leading to a long jumper.

I don't know that that's what we want either. Fanduels putting the ball in your court for the rest of the NBA season because right now new customers get $200, in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $200 if your bet wins. For me, I'm eyeing Jamal Mosley for coach of the year. It's a notoriously difficult race to predict. So when you're thinking about

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Bonus issue has non-witrable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Okay, next question is from Sergio. What do you think Chet and Wemby's ceilings might be in their prime? Sergio writes that he thinks they could both be top five, maybe even top three players at some point. Yeah, as both the foremost Ched believer. Yeah.

Initially the foremost Wembe skeptic. Yes. I want to hear how your thoughts on this have evolved over the course of the season. It's evolved. I think I don't know that Chet has top five, top three guy in the league potential. I think he could get close to that top 10 if everything breaks right, meaning, you know, he gets his strength together, that three-pointers stays. So the strength part, that's of utmost importance

because one, he needs to be able to stand up one-on-one against some of the biggest bigs without having his team send help. So he needs to be able to do that. And two, he needs to be the kind of guy that punishes smaller people. If your center doesn't hurt small players, effectively it's like they're just a guard.

who can't dribble. But so he needs to get stronger. The three, and I thought it was fading at a certain point in the season, but that thing is back. And he's hovering around at 38%, 39% like, damn. That's really impressive.

And so I don't know that he'll ever be this offensive hub where you just generate all of your looks off of what you're doing around him. It doesn't feel like he's going to get to that. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. And he probably won't ever have to because he's playing with freaking Shea Gilgis Alexander. That's the thing, yeah.

Yeah, the developmental difference in these guys is pretty stark in that way. I think even if Chet could be that player, will he get the chance to over the first five or six years of his career, just to simplify it, I would highly doubt he ever has that kind of showcase. I think as long as he plays with SJ is probably going to be more of a second type offensive player or sometimes even third, depending on what other talent OKC brings in. Yeah, he just needs to be, he just needs to get stronger so that he can overwhelm switches

and cross matchups and things of that nature. So he's generating Anthony Davis type of junk buckets that he does. Like, he needs to get like AD, you know, and then he'll be hovering around those top player movements. And I think obviously he's only going to get smarter about defense. He's already got a really high IQ about that. He's already flashing the ball handling. It's just I don't see the top five, top three for him as of now.

Now, Weminyama, he's freaking pocket passing, diming people up. It's nuts. He's freaking just destroying guys in a one-on-one. You know, I seen Bo Bo complain that they were, you know, basically he accused the refs of dick riding, Isaiah. He accused the refs of being fans. of Wembe Nyama. He's already getting the superstar calls on offense.

He's just showing you everything. You know, shot creation on his own. Obviously, just as a pick and roll partner, it's freaking deadly what this guy's going to be able to do on the pop and on the roll. It's just ridiculous. The sky is just the limit offensively. And again, it's very tied to him getting stronger,

not getting pushed out. But at a certain point, if he's just shooting over people with that feathery touch, does he need to be close to the basket? I don't even know, right? And then, of course, on defense where people like Kyle Man think he's already best defensive player since Bill Russell, we know what he is on defense. So, yeah, I think Wembe obviously has best player in the league, you know, Hall of Fame, all of that. And most importantly, man, he wants it. Yes. This guy has the fire.

He's got that proverbial dog in him. I love the proverbial dogs. I love the real dogs too. You know, big dog podcast group chat is. But not only does he want it, he wants to kill people. And I think he and Chet have this in common, honestly. It's just their situations and their skill sets are a little different. But what is going to drive Chet to be of the air we're talking about, top five, top 10 kind of tall, you know,

maybe fringes of that, depending on how his offense develops and how much he can create for himself, is the same thing that's going to drive Victor up and up and up in these rankings and potentially to be the best player in a league where it sounds crazy to put it this way, but right now, you know, Edwards is 22. Luca and Shea are 25. And you're looking at Victor Webidiam and saying, this guy could be better than them. Like he has the game breaking size. He has the skill set that's going to not only overwhelm defenses, but I think can evolve as the NBA evolves,

which is always so important. He's going to be such a malleable player over time. How could you look at what Victor Webbenyama has done this season and not think that could be one of the best players in the world right now? He already sometimes seems like he's one of the best players in the world right now. But speaking of the best in the world, Isaiah, what do we have next coming up in terms of our questions? So you guys have been in a lot of agreements, so we've got some conflict here.

Marlon goes, you've opened the box, why is pop better than Phil Jackson? And then Lucas in Ireland says, aside from Phil Jackson, and who does Watts have in front of Pop when it comes to best coaches of all time. Yeah, this one's my bad. I just casually tossed out on the last pod

that I think Pop is the greatest coach in NBA history. We got a lot of questions about it. We got a lot of follow-up. People poking and prodding, wanted to hear the case. Was, let me lay out the case for you a little bit here. Lay out the case. Phil Jackson, to me,

is a coach who wants to play exactly one way and convince him of the great players of all time to do it with incredible, unprecedented success. No argument for me. Pop is a coach who came in similarly, wanting to play one way, won a title, and then changed and adapted and kept winning.

And for 20 straight seasons, coached teams that won 50 wins or the equivalent, given a lockout here or there. That's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous thing. And they did it because Pop was willing to evolve as a coach as the NBA changed, was not a proponent of the three-point shot,

learn to accept it, learn to understand it, as Phil Jackson is firing off tweets as the president of the Knicks, wondering what the value of the three is. And he did something that Phil Jackson never did, which is he coached some of the all-time player development success stories. Tony Parker, Manu Genoobli. You know, whatever you may say about Phil's Lakers and Bulls teams, they don't have those guys. Like Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan when Phil Jackson took over. Scotty Pippen grew as a player. I'm sure being impacted. Howard in the triangle as part of that, but I wouldn't say it's like Phil Jackson's majestic developmental coaching that made Scottie Pippen Hall of Fame. I don't think he does. No.

I think there's places where we share credit and there's places where there's not. And I look at 94 and 95 as being very telling. Phil Jackson staring down those seasons without the most dominant player in the sport and saying, I'm good. I'm going to sit out all of these circumstances in which I have less than ideal personnel to win. Look, here's the thing. One, bashed Popovich's

head in every time he played him in the playoffs. The head to head is tough. It's tough. It's tough. kicked his ass all the time. Right? This I did it pop is the wizard into this smoked him head to head. And to me, the thing about Phil is like,

yes, I think he is way less adaptable than pop has proven to be over the breadth of his career. But like people say all this Jordan shit. Like Doug Collins was not getting these results. No. He just wasn't. He actually got this guy to take a more holistic view of the freaking game. I mean, he did.

I feel like there's a little bit of like a Doug Collins. I mean, he's got like a Vinny Del Negrow vibe. He's got, he's got not an Adrian Griffin vibe from this season, but a bit of like there's some, there's some low hanging fruit. here for the 90s bulls. And Phil Jackson took the fruit. And he also imposed this, you know, very stodgy offense that worked for a very long time. And I respected.

And I admire what it accomplished. But I'm not, I'm not that impressed by the triangle at the end of the day. Dude, the principles of the offense still remain, though, right? I mean, sure. In the way that they've been built upon and changed and tweaked into other things and other systems over time because they don't work anymore. Yeah. Yes.

And the bottom line is, look, I hate doing the six rings, nine rings, 11 rings, all that stuff. But I have to. I have to. Because, yes, the two, three beats aside, to me, it's like doing it with Shaq and Kobe again, they were not going to win a championship with Del Harris, y'all. They just were not. Doing it is shocking Kobe is one thing. Doing it with Kobe, who was a diminished version of himself, let's face it,

at the time. And Pau and Lamar Odom, like, bro, the second Lakers championship run is, to me, what Cementsville is like, this guy is the real deal. This guy knew what he was doing. The success kind of speaks for itself. And again, all of the play up development, yeah, Chip England and all, we pioneered. This is part of coaching. What do you want from me? We pioneered the route from Europe to America and yada, yada, yada. whatever. We're not going to talk about Pop saying he liked the Europeans better

because they work hard, aka these Negroes don't. We're not going to kill Pop for that. It's not ideal. Even though I just did. I get all of that. But Phil's teams always perform, dude.

And in the biggest playoffs, I mean in the biggest moments in the playoffs, where it's, you know, we always say the playoffs is like this chess match between the chess masters and we're moving the pieces

in the car. Coach is kick Popovich's chess playing ass every single time, man. Look, Popovich is amazing. And I'd be, I don't think Popovich is a better coach than Pat Riley. Wow. To be honest with you. I put Riley above Popovich. Well, so this is the offshoot question is who else would you have over Pop?

Phil, you're saying Pat Riley, anyone else you want to put in that conversation. I'm going to Phil. Riles. I guess we could put pop in there. I don't want to be the suspect for the Red Arabac. But I guess we could put pop in there. Sure. Okay.

But like, come on. Riley pioneered invented so many ideas in the modern game. He, like, he is the modern game. And that he's still GMing at this level. Riley, for sure, is the number two. Popovich will give him number three. Wow. Disrespectful. I just, Popovich is like the admiration of the media.

Just like, oh, we love it when Pop dunks on us on TV. And he treats our questions like we're kindergartners and idiots. Oh, we love Pop. He's so great. And Pop and Pop and Pop. I ain't buying it. Okay. All I said was he was a good basketball coach. Obviously, an all-time coach. I don't have the Stockholm syndrome I don't think was.

obviously an all-time coach. No, I'm not accusing you, Rob. I'm talking about the media as a whole NBA media. But yeah, he's not touching Phil Jackson. Come on, man. 11 rings, guys. Come on. 11 championships.

It's nice. It's very impressive. So Bill Russell also the greatest player of all time, 11 rings. You know, how do we dispute the rings? Look, I'll listen to a Russell in the top four. I'll listen to Russell being in the top four. And I'll make the argument that Phil's a top four coach of all time, you know? I don't dismiss his case out of hand.

But like, come on now. Phil. It's Phil. All right. Isaiah, what's next? This question's from Sarah in the heartland. Why don't college coaches ascend to the NBA anymore? Because they can't coach.

Honestly, that feels harsh to say, but some of it is, let's kindly reframe it and say very different skill sets required in coaching. college basketball and coaching the NBA. I think that's why for the most part, the elite college program to NBA pipeline is basically non-existent. You do see guys come in with some NBA experience, and there's still some remnants, you know, your Billy Donovan's.

Kevin Ali is currently an interim coach for the Nets right now. Like there are these cases, but for the most part, I think you're right. I think there is a communication issue in college coaches trying to talk to adult men and get their message across in a way that is not distrable. respectful and doesn't alienate people.

That has been a problem over the years. But if we're being honest, like the tactical differences between these games, we've seen college coaches come in and they're like big ideas, we're going to full court press. Like, are you kidding me? What a concept. So the best, like, think about the legends. Like, if you ask anybody who like pays attention to, you know, tactical stuff on a high level, about the legends

Mike Shashefsky, Roy Williams, Lude Olson, all of these guys, they were not very impressive in that regard. These guys got great players in. They figured out a way

to make the talent work and they could win a lot. But these guys are not like impressive coaches. Brad Stevens, right? The last guy to do it like on a pretty high level and I think we, you know,

remember when we were saying like, would you rather Brad Stevens and some of the best players in the NBA. We got a little bit carried away. We weren't saying it, but it was said. It was said. But at Butler, he was overachieving his talent all the freaking time. This dude could clearly, clearly knew how to coach, right?

But that's not the case with these guys. And as Rob said, these dudes almost function as HR recruitment. Their job is to assemble a freaking. workforce. That's it. And the dudes, the best dudes don't stay long enough for you to put things in that they could build upon that would allow for your strategies to have nuance to them.

Like, they just not ask to coach in this way. And so, no, none of these cats deserve chances in NBA. You think Sean Miller, who's been a pretty damn successful college coach could coach in the NBA? A, the only guy who was clearly a good enough coach, but he was just too dictatorial college psychopath was Patino, who is, again, he's a legendary coach,

pioneered a lot of shit that we do in basketball, on defense specifically. In college, he was one of the first people launching all of those threes. Like, Patino is a basketball mind, like a legend. in that regard. But personality-wise, like, you know why you're trying to hear that shit? No, it didn't work out so well.

I've been trying to think if the changes in the college infrastructure, right, the prominence of the transfer portal, everything that's going on with NIL, will that make college coaches more like NBA coaches or more like NBA decision makers in terms of what they have to manage? Because in some ways it feels like it will

and in some ways it feels like it won't. I don't think so. I think these guys are wired a certain way, and to coach a certain way. And also, you're disincentivized from coaching these guys for real if they could just leave your ass on a whim. It's true. You know?

So they kind of handicapped by that. But like, man, look, man, I enjoyed NC State in Oakland last night. 2016 finals, it was not. Okay. Just hoops appreciator, Wosney Lambray. cannot stoop, cannot stoop to the NCAA tournament. Honestly, we simply cannot defend it here. Most college basketball is very bad.

I can't. The dribbling off the foot just kills me. It's just like the handling in this game is just, oh, my God. But it's great fun. God bless America. This is a great segue. Isaiah, what's our next question? Because I feel like it's something that's very comparable to the best of college basketball

being the worst of NBA basketball. Yeah, I would say good. example was it was grislies and spurs. I was like, this is our March Madness. This is the NBA March Madden. It's just a bunch of 22-year-olds who are bat at basketball running around. And then Wembe. If you want to see the best 22-year-olds in the world passing the ball out of bounds, draining the shot clock and with possessions that go nowhere, the NBA has that for you. I promise you. The next question is from Cameron, it's out of all the teams, who's the worst best player? So taking the top player from each team, who do you think is the worst?

The worst best player was, it really has to be Kyle Kuzma. Right? The best player on the Wizards, by far, I don't even think it's particularly close. And yet, if you have a better worst best player, a better, a worse than Miles Bridges? I mean, I think Lamella's better. In a basketball sense, obviously on a human sense, clearly not. No. But is Kuzma worse than Miles Bridges?

I'm including the guys who are hurt. So Lamello to me is much better. I mean, Lamello, excuse me. Yeah, Lamello far and away better than Kuz. Damn. Who's the best player on Portland? Anthony Simons? I think you could make an Anthony Simons argument.

You can make a Jeremy Grant argument depending on what you value. I think it's one of those two guys. But I'll put it this way. At the ringer.com, we do this ranking of the top 100 players in the league. Pousma is 81st on that list. That's fucking crazy.

This is an NBA basketball team. That's fucking great. Eighty first. There's 80 guys out in the NBA who are better than your ace in the hole. That's fucking nuts, dude. The ace in the hole who could have been traded at the trade deadline and decided he wanted to stick around to be a part of building something special. God bless Kyle Kuzma, man. I love Kuz.

love, I can't say it enough. I really love Coos, but man, that's a travesty. A good player. Should not be the best player on any team. So, you know, I actually read this question incorrectly when I read the sheet. I read it as who's the worst player on a top team. Oh, like a really great team who is their worst player? Yes.

And ultimately, I think it's like, I think it's aunt. But sorry, Isaiah. a lot of people would make the case for Tatum. So who is the worst, like, superstar player on a very good team? Best player on the best teams. I mean, Jason Tatum is better than Anthony Edwards. If that's the question. Look, man, I said he is with some people.

People are saying. People are not saying. I don't think people are saying this. Outside the Twin Cities, I don't think anybody is saying this. They're not sending their best. I don't know. I can't support that. I'm trying to think who the other candidates would be.

But it probably is Anthony Edwards, no? I think it's Anthony Edwards, or if you want to include Cleveland in this conversation, maybe Donovan Mitchell, is kind of like the kind of player who's very good, great on some nights.

Is it Edwards already better than Donovan Mitchell? They're peers to me. I think he's probably, clearly better defensively. Offensively, it just depends on what you're looking for. but yeah I think that look that's an interesting way to take the question too I think those are probably the guys and putting tatum in this conversation is pretty disrespectful but far be it for me to defend the Celtics on a podcast where Justin isn't here putting Tatum in that is insane like it's actually insane but anyway Wes asks please do a quick three-player draft of the players who are the most fun to watch since it's my idea I Get the first pick, Malik Monk.

We all love Malik Monk. Who doesn't love watching Malik Monk play basketball? I love that he's finally going to get paid too this summer. That's dope. And probably we'll win Sixth Man of the Year, I would imagine. It feels like the frontrunner right now has a really good case for that award. It's been awesome watching his emergence into the league, fighting with various teams, just to get like a foothold and for people to take him seriously.

And Sacramento's been such a great home for him. I love him because he is the perfect, like, jittery, waterbug creator. but also we'll dunk on people and also will take crazy shots. He really is the perfect combination of watchability. But I will give you the second pick, Waz. Who is your second pick in the most watchable or most fun to watch NBA draft? So it's actually a player in this mold. Shouts to my close homie, Sabrina Merchant,

that just lost Laker year where Wynion Gabriel was getting 20 minutes a night. at the end of the season Malik Monk was on that team and we would always like man we love watching Malik Monk but like is he a real guy? Can he do this on a real team and

contribute meaningfully to winning on an actual real team? And we got that answer in Sacramento which is really cool, is dope and again the reason why they even got him on a deal they got him is like people didn't believe in Malik Monk. Not all. And so the guy I think about

in this mole who like I'm just more and more drawn to watching him is Colin Sexton. Oh, yeah. And I wonder the same thing. Like, can Colin Sexton be a guy on a real team? Like a team that's actually trying to achieve something. Not a team that just trades their best players, handicaps its own team at the deadline every year.

But, man, he is so fun to watch, man. Reckless abandon to the basket. He seems to have an unlimited motor. Like, this guy's energy is on another level. You know, he's taking ownership of running offense for the jazz while clearly being their best offensive player. And again, the passion, man. This guy, he will finish.

He's fearless finishing over the top of people at the cup. I'm, man, I'm really like, he's why I'm watching jazz games right now. It's Colin Sexton. Like, I've become a fan of this dude. You know, I'm not going to lie, like the Cleveland stint, where Kevin Love beamed the ball at his head because he refused to pass. Like, that's cemented his, like, sort of image in my head. Yeah. And not just yours.

I think in Will Hardy's head. And people around the league thought of Colin Sexton that way before he got to Utah. Just this greedy-ass guy, right, when it came with shots. He's changed that around, man. And it's really cool to see. So, yeah, Colin Sexton, yo, check him out when you get it. chance. Just a professional freaking score. And we were doing this exercise on a recent pod talking about about who the foundational pieces for the jazz are right now, who are the keepers on that team.

Sexton is a really hard guy to place in that regard because, as you're saying, like, if you're, if you are a winning team, if you are a team that's trying to contend and you're thinking about who could be even better for us than they are right now for their, you know, their lottery teams or their rebuilding teams, Sexton feels like he could slot into a role with a bunch of winners immediately, give them this kind of energy, give them this kind of scoring. What's making him so good for the jazz also makes him so attractive as a trade target potentially. So I would love to see him play for a winner, whether that's Utah or somewhere else. But, Waz, I have to say, you know, this is a question that is tailor made for me to go hipster on you.

Oh, my God. I'm normally very amenable to do that. Please pick a guy that Charles Barkley has heard of before. I will do just that. I'm going to swerve the other way, you know, like when like, like, pitchfork gives a rave review to like a dual leap album or something in a world where pitchfork still exists. Anthony Edwards, how was he not at the top of our list here?

I don't even feel like this is a swerve. He's undeniable between the chase down blocks, between the dunks lately, between everything he's being asked to do for Minnesota with Carl Towns out. The best show in basketball right now, the most watchable guy in basketball right now. And a player you're keeping an eye on to say, like, as we've been circling around all podcast long. Could he be the best player in the league someday? Could he already be an elite player now? Is he going to make an

all-NBA team this season? I think is a pretty realistic possibility for him. There's just so much to watch with him that even though Minnesota's offense can get a little stodgy, a little sludgy, my eyes are always on Edwards right now. Dude, of course,

what he's doing on the court speaks for himself, I'd never imagined he would be this good of a shooter this quickly. Just the diversity of shot that he can make with regularity is pretty insane that he's got the shot making part down to this degree is just wild.

But for me, man, obviously I love watching a play, but all this stuff around it with it just cracks me the fuck up. Which stuff are you talking about? There's a wide variety of stuff. dunk and scream. It's a good clip. It's a good clip. And he said,

get up, little nigga! See that shit for me, by the way, Rob. That was literally for me. Literally, I watched that clip of the jazz guy watching him watch it. He is so happy watching it watch his own dunk. It's just amazing. Just now on my social, it popped up. That one time he showed up to the,

came pressing with some Popeye's. Like this, dude, he is pure entertainment, dude. So obviously you're right. Anthony Edwards, they don't get more fun than that. Anthony Edwards is so fun to watch that Anthony Edwards loves to watch himself. He's floored by his own self. That's what I'm saying. He's like, man, I got to say that might be my best dunk ever.

All right, Isaiah, what do we have next? And can we fit Anthony Edwards into this next question? Hold on. One more thing. When the kid asked him for the jersey and he said, nah, I got to give it to Collins. He said Colin,

meaning sexton. Yes. But everybody thought he was saying he had to give John Collins his jersey after dunk him. There was the pruder level analysis of the Colin versus Collins discrepancy over an interaction with a fan. And an autograph line. That's where we're at with Anthony Edwards.

Everything is a thing right now. He's the best. All right. The next question is from Keegan. Who is one guy from each conference that you could see having their coming out party in this year's playoffs? Yeah, I would say Anthony Edwards already out. Already well out. Beyond coming out range.

He had a coming out party last time. I would say so. Well, so who do you have your eye on for this? So before the injury, it was Halliburton for me. I'm like, this guy is going to kill people in the playoffs and he's going to make America aware of the kind of player that he's become. You know, since things have kind of shifted for him,

I'm looking at Franz Wagner, who is coming up on a deal, boy about to get paid, and this is how he proves that he's worth. the bread that he's inevitably going to get. And so I want to see what Franz is able to do against. It's going to be some tough defenses. This guy has the potential of going up against.

And so Franz Wagner, I got my eye on to see if he could break out and make people understand like, yeah, man, I'm part of the two-headed monster, and we got something serious happening in Orlando. Yeah, that four or five right now is looking like New York Orlando. Maybe it ends up Cleveland, Orlando. Either way, yeah, those are, those are muddy series. Yeah. And the kind of series where you want, whether it's Paolo, whether it's Franz, whether it's call Anthony for that matter, like someone in Orlando is going to have to pop and figure out ways to

generate some offense. I think Franz is a great pick. I think there's a lot of people who just aren't aware of his existence, generally speaking. There's clearly a lot of people just do not watch Orlando Magic Basketball. And their introduction as a smash mouth lock you down, we are going to be like a feeding frenzy on every loose ball, on every offensive possession that you try to run. I think it's going to be a wake up call for a lot of fans of a lot of teams who just have not had time for Orlando yet.

But you see Jalen Suggs, you see Franz Wagner, you see like Jonathan Isaac, what he's been doing defensively, we rib him a lot on this podcast, but Jesus Christ, he's been good. Yeah, he's been really good. I owe him an apology. Sorry, preacher man.

I'll say a prayer for you tonight. I'm not sure anyone owes him an apology, to be honest with you, but he's played very, very well. And again, the thing that I recommend about France's game, if you ever wanted to see a white boy play like La Charles Spree well, man. This guy lives downhill. He is constantly putting pressure on the freaking rim. And it's just awesome, awesome to see.

You heard it here first. Nick's fans who are about to watch their team play against the magic. The white spree. I know I'm good at that cross-racial. Don't play with me. It's important. As we're thinking about other breakout candidates, I think there's obviously a full range of guys here from,

if Zion Williamson and the Pelicans beat the clippers in the first round. I think that's a possibility where he could put himself back on the map in a way where he's kind of slipped off. Jalen Williams in OKC, I think could have a monster playoff run. And if the Thunder, especially if they get to the conference finals or something like that, he is going to be a definitive reason why and really be impressive to a lot of people. But look, was Justin's not even here. This is a safe space for us to talk about Peyton Watson being one of the most important members of the Denver Nuggets.

And I will say, it's getting a little dicey. You know, Michael Malone at a press conference this week was just saying it the only guaranteed guys coming off our bench and our playoff rotation are Christian Brown and Reggie Jackson. You know, lighting a little fire under Peyton Watson. But if anything, I'm only heartened by this was, you know, you want to see a guy really revved up before the postseason starts. Mike Malone is a Northeastern classic ballbreaker. That's what he's doing. He's busting his balls.

He's ribbing the guy. Yes, he's lighting a fire under his young guy. But folks, watch this man play. He's a menace, menace on defense. Him and Yokits have nice chemistry on the cutting. game. He's making his threes. He's flashing a little bit on the ball. I think that's where

he has to show the improvement in the handle department. Sure. Creation department. But as a utility piece, he's going to be closing games for Denver in the playoffs this year, y'all. Mark my words. Closing games.

The defense, Rob. I'm telling you, boy, he's I think he's going to be a first team all defense type of guy. He's going to be on a McDaniels level defense type of guy. I know that I'm nuggets peeled. I don't give a damn. Like this guy is, he's one to watch.

Definitely one to watch. And if you think about what made Christian Brown in particular so effective for Denver last postseason, just like pure energy, really good defense, knew his role. That's the Payton Watson profile. Look, Payton Watson, nothing sneaky about that. That is a jump off your screen athleticism in a way. I appreciate. But one last name to flag,

Isaiah Joe is going to have a moment in these playoffs. He's going to have like a Lonnie Walker type goes off in a fourth quarter, hits a game winning shot or something for OKC, and people are going to realize that he is a human being who exists. And I'm ready for it. Every time a defense allows him to get a three off,

I'm just like, what are you doing? Read the scouting report. You cannot allow this man to shoot. Absolutely not. I wouldn't let him into the arena if I were an opposing defense. Like, put double the metal detectors, stop and frisk, whatever you got to do

to keep Isaiah Joe off of the court. You don't want to have to worry about guarding him once he gets out there. And, you know, quiet is kept because Shea's an MVP candidate. He's done nothing in the playoffs. Obviously, they didn't make it last year. And when he went

in that Chris Paul, he was only in the second year. He struggled mightily. But Shea is going to have his first playoff moments this year. So obviously we're going to be watching that too. Definitely so. All right, what's next?

Next question is a phone one. John in Portugal, I spend way too much time watching highlight reels of Al Jefferson pump fakes. What highlights of retired or non-active NBA players are your guilty pleasures? John, just a true group chat degenerate out here to crunch and Al Jefferson take. I love it. I love it. But, yeah, Was, do you want to remember some guys?

You want to name some guys? I mean, for me, man, and this is going to surprise nobody is New York City centric. It's Steph. and particularly that first year in New Jersey when he got traded from the Timberwolves. I'm telling y'all, this guy was a special player. Nobody could stay in front of him. He was dunking on people.

And he was pioneering that taking the three feet behind the three-point line at that time. Yeah. I used to joke and call him the real Steph. You should bring that one back. That's a great take. Has earned a moniker.

He's stuff. But Stefan Marbury, man. In New York, he's like a cult figure because his run at Lincoln High School was so legendary. Even at the time, like, the PSAL was pretty, the public school league in New York was pretty competitive. But like all of the Jews was still with the Catholic school leagues. But Steph in the PSAL had everything. Everything. And, you know, he's part of the last era of grassroots New York basketball mattering at all, right? He's Ron Artes. He's Lamar Odom. He is Elton Brand. Those guys. It's the, you know, even Felipe Lopez, who, hilariously enough, yes, he is a New York City legend.

he's part of that last stand of guys of New York guys really mattering man and I'm telling you step in that first New Jersey stint man was incredible incredible player and it makes you wonder what him and KG could have ultimately achieved if the damn owners didn't bully the players association into max salaries because that's why he left he was like if I'm going to get the same money anywhere. Get me the hell up out of Minneapolis. Thank you very much. And so, you know, I wonder what him and KG could have accomplished

if he stayed there. But yeah, go find him, Stefan Marbury Highlights from New Jersey. You will not be mad that you did. He's also a breed of guard from that era who we don't talk about as being ahead of their time. But like that range of scoring guards

before the league was really ready for guards to be scorers, they got a short shrift. And they got chewed out by their coaches and they got traded around the league and they never really found great homes for themselves long term. Like Marbury could have been an amazing off the dribble creator

even if he just, if you know, it was like prominent a little bit later in a more pick and roll heavy NBA, even more pick and roll heavy than it was then. Dude, he got this scoring guard moniker because again, he did score

and he liked to shoot. Yeah. He was diamond folks up. Nine dimes a night. Go looking up. This guy was diamond fools. Like, man, I, you know, I think, you know,

because of circumstances and Steph's, certain personality quirks that he has. His career wasn't able to blossom, in my opinion, to his fullest potential. But I was the delusional Steph guy arguing that he was better than Iverson in 1999. You know what I mean? I was that sicko. So, yeah, I just will always have a deep affinity for Starberry, man.

Well, we say his career didn't blossom, but he's basically the most important player in Chinese basketball history. So it's all relative. He found a home for himself eventually. I do think there's something to this framework, though, of with all due respect to John watching Al Jefferson highlights, I think point guards are the most resiliently watchable highlight mixes. And if you want to start with the obvious, the like 10 minute Magic Johnson mixes that are on YouTube will send you into a tizzy. That's easy stuff. That's light work for your YouTube highlight watchers.

Highlight tape will blow your fucking mind. Absolutely nutty. It's just insane stuff. But more contemporary and kind of in the Steph mold, Baron Davis is one of these guys for me as a gar who, especially if you saw him later in his career when he was so much slower, he wasn't as explosive, watching that first step. You're allowed to say it.

He was fat. Well, he was hurt too. He was hurt. I'm going to say he was injured, which is also true. The knees didn't quite have the burst that they used to, But early Baron Davis with that first step blown by people and even Warriors Baron Davis where he was burying Andre Kirillenko and ending his existence, those are really seminal place, really important stuff that are, well, they will benefit a revisit if you

want to dig up those kinds of mixes. I used to make these kind of highlight rules through the pandemic. So if any interest in Roy Hibber, maybe a little Omer Caspi, Brandon Bass, that intrigues you? Wait, you have an Omri Kaspi fan cam? Yeah, I made it. Yeah, I was bored. It was before the ringer.

I was jobless. How is this just coming up now? Oh, my God. All right, well, we got some links to drop for all the group chat listeners out there. I didn't know we had a weird. I was just sitting on a trope. Yeah, no, they're good. They're fun.

That man, that man love getting up on his jumper, you know? You've never seen someone who was so indebted to the high release point. Two-foot jumper on his, like, 15-footer. Crucial stuff. Uh, last question is from Peter. I'd like to hear some role reversal this week with Justin out. Waz and Rob make the case for the Sulloch to win the title. This is my kind of question here.

This is my burner. I was about to say, yeah, there was really, uh, no, no voice that I would rather hear this from. This had to be coming from Isaiah. Waz, I feel like we do this pretty often. Yeah. We may not make the case for them to win the title, but we make the case for them to be awesome, the best regular season team in the league with a bullet. the fact that they have, if anything,

like an easier path to the finals than Denver does, and they have the potential to overwhelm just about anybody. Like the premise of the Boston Celtics as a team, and especially those top six guys, is kind of unguardable. Yeah. I think in the East,

how they're going to succeed, honestly, is by smothering guys. Like, defensively, just completely shutting down their opponents, right? And obviously, their offenses are the worldly, but I think in the East it's going to be because they're destroying people on defense. Now, to beat the nuggets, though,

they will have to make their threes. And I think Tatum and Brown are going to have to challenge Yokic at the cup. You know, they're going to have to put some files on them. They're going to have to make them think about playing in space on the pick and roll, attacking him that way. That's how they do it.

obviously the threes have to fall because, you know, nothing in Boston happens without threes. But I think they got to challenge Yokic at the rim. They got to be willing to take it to him. Because again, the last time the nuggets lost when they were relatively healthy was against the Lakers in the bubble. And the Lakers did two things. They started that, they had a jumbo rotation of Biggs,

like the last vestiges of a useful Dwight Howard, you know, and AD in the back court and, you know, a little mix of Javelle McGee. Why not? But also LeBron and AD were like living at the rim. They were really challenging these guys in the paint. You know, that's where you got to win. You have to beat, show Denver that like,

yo, we're going to bully you guys in the paint. That team didn't have Gordon, who clearly is just, you know, all world level defender. Incredible. So that changes the dynamics. But that's to me how Boston has to do it, man. Like, their two guys got to be willing to get nasty, Zay. They got to get down in the dirty.

I think Jalen Brown has been getting down in the dirty a little more this season in those situations, right? The, like, gutsy possessions, close games. The Celtics aren't always great in those moments. And sure, there are times where they are spraying out to threes. And it just comes down to, like, will they hit this corner shot? or not. And that's a tough make or miss to have to ride when you're a team that's as dominant as Boston. But I think Jalen's done a great job with that. I think Tatum is a little more touch and go.

And he gets into the blender of what they do. And in some ways, it's admirable. Like, he's trying to find guys. He's trying to find better shots. But there's a point in the game where you can't be hunting for that stuff, where if it's a borderline case of a smaller defender, you could take to the rim, you just got to take them to the rim. And you can't be finding, even if it's a relatively open, Chris Staps, Porzingis on the perimeter, you just got to go inside. Like their shot diet as a team needs that stuff. So if you think Tatum can be that guy,

and I think Brown has been that guy, and sometimes Derek White is that guy, to be honest with you, that combination, I think could be more than enough. Boston, I mean, they have so much talent. They have everything that they need to win. That is the case for the Celtics win the title. They've got it all. Boston can win the title, guys.

It's just that they won't. See, we can't even honor the spirit of the question Even without Justin here But we are who we are, wise Like we can't we can't make a different podcast Funny thing I ran into a buddy of mine on Friday Who lives in New York

But he's a Boston guy And he was talking He was like, yo If any other team We're 20 and 2 in their last 22 It's all anybody would be talking about How dominant, how inevitable, how historic,

how blah, blah, blah, blah. He was like, but because it's Boston, everybody's just like, eh, and he agreed with me. It's justified. It's justifiable. It's absolutely justified, dude. We got to see it in the postseason. Yeah, what happens after you do it in the regular season was?

What's the order of operations there? You got to do it in the playoffs, then do it in the finals, then do it again. Okay. We're not even at do it again. yet. We're just starting up. They're so far from earning my respect, Rob. Well, you know what, Wise?

We did it again. You and I did it again here today. And they said it couldn't be done. They said you couldn't do a group chat with two people. We turned it into a DM. We made it a text. We made it work. I think we did it. And shout's to Zay. Shouts to say for the assist on this episode,

man. Zay made sure the train's running on time, man. This guy does so much for us. behind the scene, so it was dope to have him on a show with us today, man. Isaiah Blakely, our producer, our proctor today, making mixtapes we don't even know about that we now need to get links to immediately. Thank you to Ben Cruz and Tucker Tashen on production two. We'll be back.

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