The Ringer NBA Show - Mailbag: Most Improved Player, Postseason Narratives, Life Lessons From Basketball, and More | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

Rob and J. Kyle Mann answer your listener questions about the Most Improved Player award, postseason narratives, how teams are defending Jokic, and much more! (00:00) Intro (3:18) FanDuel title pie (12:16) Most Improved Player (21:12) 3-point shooting (27:15) Mount Rushmore of aughts indie rock (33:00) Fan Duel ad break (33:46) Tommy Hilfiger ad break (34:19) All-time Kentucky alumni lineup (39:33) The Pelicans' future (46:23) Playoff matchups (48:17) Watching every game (55:23) Best playoff narratives (1:01:58) The music artist who compares to Steph (1:06:19) Life lessons from basketball (1:18:23) Defensive strategy against Jokic (1:23:29) Teams that could win their first NBA title Send your questions to ⁠[e-mail]⁠! Hosts: Rob Mahoney and J. Kyle Mann Producers: Isaiah Blakely, Victoria Valencia, and Carlos Chiriboga Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Social: Carlos Chiriboga and Keith Fujimoto Explore more at https://tommy.com The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ ⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Rob Mahoney. With me as always, Jay Kyle, man. Kyle, how are we doing today? Doing pretty good. Got up, the weather's turning nice here, Rob. I got up and had a nice black coffee and a breakfast burrito, which I know that you're enthused about. You're an aficionado of the breakfast burrito. Not as many good ones out here as there are in LA, though, I have to say. I imagine it's a bit of a problem. You know, as from a humanity standpoint, we really went off when we invented the breakfast burrito. It's one of our finest creations. I don't know that we've done anything better since, but boy, am I glad that it exists. Are you a, what's the profile? Sausage, bacon, avocado, what are we throwing out?

Yeah, man, I'm a sucker for any kind of like avocado. I mean, grilled chicken's fine also. Okay, what? I mean, I could do some, well, I guess for breakfast, maybe you don't want to go grilled chicken. What are the typical meats in the breakfast burrito for? I mean, sausage, yeah. In terms of, I'm not a big baking guy. So, yeah, I'd say sausage.

You know, dude, one of the best breakfast burritos I've ever had was in L.A. at that place, Dowding Thomas. Have you ever been there? No. Shout out to them. Really, really good. Anyway. This segment is now sponsored by Doubting Thomas.

We're going to get them included. Try not to pull the Justin and get to, you know, I didn't finish the burrito because I could tell I was going to be in a coma. But anyway, it was a great start to the day leading up to this podcast that I was looking forward to. Well, as you can tell, Justin is not here to talk about whatever breakfast burritos he has or has not or refused to finish eating. We're going to have him back soon. Hopefully, the bathroom renovation is going well. Hopefully, on top of that, he's listening to this podcast as he does the bathroom renovation.

And we can get the full update. Kyle, I do have a friend in my life, my friend Amanda, who had a kid recently and thus was significantly delayed in her podcast listening and is three months behind us in podcast. podcast as she tries to catch up to the season. And she has been asking me, are we going to get Justin bathroom updates along the way? Is this going to be a recurring fit? As if I'm spoiling season four of group chat for her while she's still in season one, all of which is to say, the people are interested. They're invested in Justin's journey.

I mean, I'm glad to hear it. Kudos to somebody who can catch up. That's commitment. And I think that's a real endorsement that shows that you're all about the product. If you're willing to go through a news-driven basketball show and chronological, I don't think I could do that, even with something that I like. If it wasn't current, good for her. I like to hear that.

That's good news. It's true sicko behavior. But this is an episode for the sickos. We announced we're going to do a mailbag this week. The group chat listeners responded overwhelmingly. Our inbox overflow. I would say this is like our most prolific response to any mailbag calling we've ever had. Thank you to everyone who emailed in to respond to.

ringer group chat at gmail.com. You can keep them coming on an ongoing basis about anything we talk about. Maybe we'll read them on the show regardless of it being a mailbag or not, but we got to get into it, Kyle, because we have a lot to dig into today. And to read those questions, as always, our producer Isaiah Blakely is going to join us. Isaiah,

can you cue us off the top with the first question? Yeah, so first question is from Stephen. Your clever title pilot got me wondering, how does Vegas allocate their own title pie right now? So I downloaded the latest title odds from Fandul and worked out the implied probabilities adjusting for the house edge that's

built into the listed odds and then Robio walk us through the percentages. I mean, first of all, the sponsorship synergy is crazy. Like, we didn't ask for this. We didn't prompt him in any way, but here we are. The title pie is presented by Fandul. We're going to break this down kind of like in chunks, I think, Kyle. And you can tell me what strikes you as being out of character with your perception of the league a little too high, a little too low, whatever you like as we go.

The first group of contenders, according to Fanduel by percentage, broken down, the Thunder at 38%, the Spurs at 13%, the Celtics at 13%. I would say the Thunder in particular, that's right in line with where we've had them in our title pie conversations all year, no? Yeah, I think so. I think we came down a little. I was going to say, can we get the metadata on whoever sent this email? Was it from a Fandle?

Was it from a Cuvicle? Fandul. 38, I think we had kind of. of all three come down a little bit from that and brought San Antonio up, if I'm not mistaken. Because we were hovering in like the 30 to 40 range. Maybe it's spot on. The one that jumps out to me there is the Celtics, but it's the East thing there. The enthusiasm and the confidence in them that has swelled, swollen lately, I think it's been one of the more interesting kind of stories in the NBA. But we're past the honeymoon thing initially of where people were excited that Tatum's back. And now I am starting to hear a little grumbling of like,

maybe we're soloing a little too long on this instrumental break for Tatum. Like, are you catching wind of that? Do you think that it's a shoe in that it's, or is it going to be maybe a little bumpy as we go into the playoffs? I mean, the chatter is there. And certainly if you want to parse the words of everyone involved, you can see the moments of frustration. But then they'll go beat the thunder and everything is fine again.

You know, like they just have enough signature wins on their resume. They have the roster for it. They're just like, especially by Eastern Conference. standards, one of the most complete teams out there. So it's not shocking to me that they're this high. But I would say it is a little surprising to me as we dig into this next group. The calves at 9%, the Nuggets at 8%, the Knicks at 6%. The Cavs are one of those teams that for whatever reason, I feel like are always favored

quite strongly by these sorts of odds mechanics. I don't know what it is about the way that their season is going. This is not like it was last year where they were just rattling off wins and the net rating was, you know, blowing the doors off and all these things. Like, they've had a good season. They have a very impressive roster. They have a strong core in particular that we've talked about, and we talked about earlier this week.

Does it shock you at all, though, to see Cleveland at 9% of the, you know, the Vegas title pie? I would probably bring the Knicks and the Cavs a little closer together. Yeah. I think. That was one that jumped out to me. And I'm pretty fascinated by, there does seem to be, well, let's just start there. I mean, do you think that that's fair?

I mean, I mean, I, I don't think that the gap between those two teams is really all that big in terms of like playoff success in the past few years. Have the Cavs moved enough in terms of, you know, the Harden Edition? Granted, they're still banged up with the Jared Allen thing like we talked about. All those things make me think that those teams are a little closer together than than, granted, it's not a huge gap, but they're a little closer together than that, I think, personally. I think so too. And I think closer together, frankly, across this sort of tier in the Eastern Conference,

including some teams that are a little further down. It's just one of those things where OKC is going to have 35, 40% of the share to win the title. That's going to depress what the spurs are capable of. That's keeping the nuggets in this range. And so naturally, a lot of these other contenders, like the Cavs, like the Celtics, like the Knicks, are going to be, I think, clustered around each other just because there is so much more parity overall and sort of like whatever you consider the top tier of the East to be. That brings us to our next kind of sub-tier, which is the Pistons.

at 4%. Oof. Like, this is, I mean, that's tough considering how the highs, like the highs of their season to date. I understand it from the perspective of Cade Cunningham's collapsed long and the lingering effects of that and who he might be even on the other side of it. There's like a lot in the air.

But 4%, I mean, just feels incredibly, a disastrous turn of events in and of itself, given what they could have reasonably expected even a month ago. Yeah, I mean, the push. and pull of the misfortune of K being out and then trying to get back in terms of the play and the nature of the injury like we talked about granted we're being YouTube doctors here with this not even YouTube doctor I'm I'm a I'm a YouTube witch doctor at this point I'm not even qualified to even lightly speculate about it but based on what I've heard people say for the you know the style

the sport and what's going to be asked of him coming back with that injury that's we'll leave it at that's going to be really complicated and leaves you with a lot of doubt and then you know the the other fact that we were just talking about is that some of these teams got better at the deadline, whether it's not, you know, I mean, Tatum coming back wasn't a deadline thing, but more of him just, you know, getting healthy, coming back from that injury. And then, you know, the calves did take a jump up, you know, so those things are working against them. And I think also there's the other part of this is that we all kind of, if you watch basketball, you see these patterns of teams that have one star that are on an ascension who still need to figure out the other kind of silos of their offense because the playoffs are all

about flexibility. They're all about adjustments. We did a spaces yesterday. I've been lucky to do some spaces on Twitter with the NBA. And Jared Dudley was just on there talking with me and John Schumann and Ben Taylor about the amount of adjusting that goes on. And I don't think that it even, I think the, I think the general public is aware of like, oh, they went zone here or whatever it is. But then the layers below that of the minutia of this is what's going on within the zone. These are the triggers for the zone. These are the principles and things like that. Those are the little things that cause a team to be like, all right, we need a release valve for our superstar, good as he is.

Good as Cade might be. And the Detroit is still in the process of figuring out who that would be. So I just think you have all these different factors that it's brutal. It is really brutal. But I understand why the 4% is there. Do you have more optimism than that? it's just hard to feel more confident than this. It's more like disappointment in the way things have turned out

than it is like I'm strongly pushing back on this idea that this is what their title odds are at this point. I think you nailed it. Yeah, all of the uncertainty around the injury bolstered by the fact in this case that to the extent that they have a flexible roster, it's a lot of offense or defense. You have to make a compromise one area or the other.

If you want to get more shooting on the floor, it's coming with huge caveats for a team like the Pistons in terms of what their defensive identity is. and how they can hold together structurally, that's really tough when you get into a playoff setting, when you have to make those sorts of one or other concessions. You need a well-rounded roster. Even when you think about a team like the Thunder on their march last year,

which is like ostensibly a similar model, right? Like driven by one primary creator, granted there's no J-dub in Detroit, but a defense-first team that tries and works really hard on that end, and that's kind of where they hang their hat. It's a similar formula, but they don't have like the, oh, we can play big and small flexibility necessarily, unless you're just super into B-ball Paul, which go with God.

Many are. Many are, though. Look, he's a fine player, but he's not a playoff answer. And that's the issue with a lot of Detroit's role players and supporting castes. Like, these guys are good players. They're clearly up to performing in the regular season. They've had some good wins even without Cade. It's just hard to think that this group, as constructed, has everything they need to outlast.

what's an increasing list in the Eastern Conference. Man, imagine how much Detroit, what they would give just to have an AJ Mitchell or just to have a case in Wallace. Like we're not even talking about like an evening to the J-Dub level. Just one more, one more drink-stirring player like that would really make a huge difference for them. And that's with Danes Jenkins already having a good season,

but they need more and they need more. And it's going to be their kind of project for the off-season, I suspect. But let's get through it first. And to kind of round this out, we've got the Lakers at 3%, the wolves at 2%, the rockets at 2%, and the Hornets, Magic, Heat, Sixers, Hodgepodge at 1% apiece. Because I think this is respectful to the Hornets,

but also Vegas will, in this case, Fanduel, will take anybody's money. So if you would like to bet on the Hornets or the Sixers to win the title, you know, they're not going to turn you away. Right. Yeah, as well, I'll take anybody's money. Sure. I'll tweet out a, you know, a Venmo link if you guys want to hit me up

and just give me money. Cash app to Jake Kyle, man. But Isaiah, hit us with the next question from Kevin. Yeah, so from Kevin, March is notoriously the month of the NBA season where the most nonsense occurs. That said, year after year, many of the finalists for most improved player had popped to some degree in the final weeks of the previous season. Who would you guys nominate as candidates for next year's most improved race

based on the flashes you have seen in the past few weeks? My picks would be Mattas Bezellas and Taylor Hendricks. I do like those of those picks. Can we talk about Buzellis a little bit off the top, Kyle? Because he was my preseason pick for most improved player, jumping the gun as far as what he could be this season, I think. But over these last couple weeks, I think he's pretty consistently looked like the best player on the floor for the Bulls.

The all-around game has been there. The shooting has come on really strong of late. His willingness to take those shots, which is like I think just such an important variable in his development. Feels like it's turning a corner. But he's just putting it all together in a way that I could, actually see him winning this award next season, even if I thought he might be able to win it this year? Yeah, Kevin may have answered his own question there. I think that it's, he's got great

positional size. He's obviously got the motor and the aggressiveness and the confidence. And those are all just sort of like, you know, micro skills. They're not even micro. Those are just intrinsic personality traits, I think, that a superstar needs to have, you know, great athlete. And the Bulls seem like they are, they're resetting, they're trying to reset their culture. And, you know, Bulls fans. thankfully for them. You know, Boozellis is something to be excited about. They have a million other questions to answer. I had a few.

I went past and just tried to like thumb down in the crates a little bit. I don't know if you did to try to pick some other candidates. There were a couple here. There's a few jazz guys that are pretty interesting. You know, he said Taylor Hendricks. I had totally just forgotten that he got shipped off the Memphis. I know. Bryce Sinsbaugh is somebody that you hear,

is playing better. Yeah. Yeah. I just think this would be a fun story. I would love to see this happen. I don't know that it's going to happen. I just think it would be really fun if Cody Williams broke through finally. Yeah.

He's been, granted, this is like, you know, Cody's scoring 34 and a narrow loss of the Kings is probably the most tanking vibe thing I've ever heard in my life. But sometimes, you know, for all the hand-wringing that's going on about the tanking at the end of this year, if some byproduct of that is that our guy, Cody Williams, who's been, Rob, frankly, he's been just mocked. I felt bad for Cody Williams,

because a lot of people, a lot of people have made a lot of snide comments about, you know, does he belong out there? I think it would be a really cool story that I would just enjoy seeing if he can find a way to make any kind of elite next year. It would be an awesome story. I think in part because, look, some of that mocking, I'm not going to stand by all of it. People on the internet can be very mean.

not like entirely undeserved though. I think it's been a long time since we've seen someone be selected in the top 10 and look in their rookie season so clearly not like an NBA player. Like just completely unprepared to compete at this level of basketball. That has not been the case this year.

And so that on its own is a huge development for the jazz potentially. I think it's one of those things too where the bar sets itself as far as what most improved. means. And so the fact that he's coming in so cold and now showing signs of life. And if he has a big year next season, that kind of makes the case for this sort of award and this sort of candidacy. It might be a bit of a long shot. But as far as what we can take away from March, I'm hopeful

there's something real in here. Yeah. And I don't know if you, you know, subscribe to this, but I don't know a couple of years ago, Sir and I did like a series of shows about the nature of each award. And I've always kind of thought that this award was about, you know, because if you're If you're a lottery pick and you're on an upward trajectory, I kind of just don't really put you in this category of place. I think you have to really go, if you go awry the way that Cody has and ride the ship, I really think that those are the types of players. Or you just come out of nowhere and you make a significant leap.

Maybe you were undervalue. Those are the kinds of guys that I'm kind of more apt to put in this category. So Cody would be in there. Another one is, I think it would be interesting if Guy Santos continues to grow. He's been good. Yeah, how do you feel about that one? I think Guy Santos and we should mention Moses Moody as well, who was playing quite well for the Warriors before this,

I mean, just terrible the injury. We wish him a speedy recovery. But those are two guys who all of a sudden are just like turning over new pages in their games. I like the Guy Santos call. I wonder just because the construction of next year's Warriors is so up in the air, how prominent of a role he will end up playing. But I think because of the finances of their role, roster. And if they are going big game hunting, they are trying to bring in other stars or

angle for LeBron James or whatever it may be, Gies Santos's salary slot is like uncharacteristically important. Like getting his level of production out of that place in the roster has turned out to be really crucial for them. So maybe he will end up just being vital for the Warriors now and forever more. Yeah, I was going to say, is there going to be, do you think there's going to be a lot of time for development next year? I would say this is probably going to be one of the least conducive to development teams in the league because they are going to be chasing it. It's true. But at least he can play.

I want to run through some other guys who are playing well right now who will not win this award, but because we're kind of running out of time in the regular season, I want to sort give them their moment and their flowers. Jarris Walker, of course, I will probably bring him up again just because that's what this podcast has become. Gigi Jackson, Josh Mike Not, who with the Nets has been just given a chance to do some more stuff offensively and really taking it and run with it. Everybody gets a chance with the Nets.

They actually email me the other day and asked me if I wanted to do logs some, and I was like, I was like, I can't get away from my job. Sorry, but yeah. It's, I mean, even at the point where we're in crunch time, and it's a legitimate possibility that, like, Ben Saroff is going to drive and finish and complete out this game and beat teams, literally anything can happen. I would believe it all.

Pella Larson, who I've liked for the heat, but I think has been especially good and really solidified his spot with them, OMAX Prosper. I don't know what he is, apparently a center sometimes, theoretically, at least for a tanking team. The Grizzlies in general, though, they're not good.

What's going on there? Yeah. They're not good. There's a lot of things happening. But there are enough guys doing stuff on a regular basis that I'm like constantly turning my head, seeing like what's going on with Walter Clayton Jr. What's going on with like Dejaun Jou?

What is his whole deal? You know, like there's just so many weird prospects who have like eye-popping games all of a sudden that I got to admit I can't stop watching the grizzlies. Yeah, a cavalcade of mysteries and just sights to see with that team. It's a lot like the Nets. You just never know who's going to pop up on a given night. I mean, they're just, the grizzlies are just a creature void of form right now. So we're just, we're seeing all kinds of wild stuff.

I want to float two actual possibilities, actual answers for this question before we get out of here. One, if Ben Matherin continues to do what he's been doing for the Clippers next year, I know he's put up points in the past, but the way he's being thought of and considered around the league, I think is shifting, and that's an important part of this. I could see him having like a sixth man

and most improved case next season, which would be fun. I also think weirdly, and I'm kind of talking myself into this, that Musa Diabate is just going to continue to be a more and more important part of what the hornets are doing. And he also has that gap

where he could play more minutes and he could do a little more offensively, that I wouldn't be shocked if he's on some people's ballots for most improved next season. Yeah. I mean, he's made such a huge perception shift this year, too. So maybe not in the way of just like raw points that I think people typically look for you, like you go from somebody who's like an occasional go-off guy to like a consistency is really

the thing that kind of, you know, separates the real from the fake and this. But the DeVote, yeah, an offensive uptick would be nice. Granted, the shots, are they going to be enough to go around on that team? That would be my question. It's like, where and when is he going to find them? I think that would be the outlying, the outstanding question. It's a great question. Isaiah, what's next for us?

Most improved is so funny because it's just going to be like, Austin Reeves with no LeBron next year getting 20th, the most improved. It might be. I was wondering, like, within this season, is there an argument that Wembe is the most improved player from like opening night to now who has taken the biggest jump in the league? it might be Wemby. Baylor Shireman?

I'm sorry for the Baylor Shireman or Raysher. The number of Celtics who have just become oddly relevant, I'm not equipped to deal with it this time. I'm sorry. But the next question is from Phoenix. Looking at the three-point shooting for championship contenders this season, none of them seem like major threats

from beyond the arc. Thunder, spurs, pistons, and Lakers are not top 10 in three-point attempts or three-point percentage. Does this mean that we are entering an era that is less reliant on the shooting threes for championship level teams where it's merely just coincidental in an outlier.

What do you make of this? This has been kind of in the air stewing for a minute now. Can you make heads or tails of it? Do you have any grand unifying theory on the state of three-point shooting? This one is going to require like a really big study and I'm sure somebody's going to, I'm sure lots of people. Maybe it'll be me, I'm not sure.

But this has been going on at the college level too where I think there's some macro things that I'd be curious to get your opinion on just that go on, not just in basketball, but it's just, you know, whenever there's an early adoption, there's a copycat theory, and then it kind of gets taken to the max, and then there's sort of a cooling off period

where, you know, people zag and we kind of meet and people zag and go away from the three-point shot and are like, we play stylistically this totally different way, because I've talked a lot about how in the pace and space era, we've had like a new type of player that comes in with more of the crossover of the spot-up and the secondary creator, pick and roll type stuff. You need to be able to make a decision with a ball screen and hit a pull-up three.

And it's just like that skill set, I think, has become more ubiquitous. But then we've also kind of seen the league go the opposite way. And like I was saying in college, we had a big pace and space movement where teams like Villanova in, like, 2018, became four out, one in. A lot of three-point shooting. A lot of those guys are in the NBA now. but if you look at it, it's kind of slowly trended back towards smash mouth. So I kind of alluded to this on a recent episode where we were talking, I mean, it was ridiculous

and I was, you know, half kidding, but the hungry hippo thing of just, I have heard a lot of talking from coaches about the economy of possessions has kind of become more the focus in all the different areas where you can do that. I also would tack on that, well, let's just stop there. I mean, like, what's your initial reaction to that for us? saying anything else. I mean, I think a lot of that stuff isn't mutually exclusive. Like, the version of smash mouth basketball that is played in 2026 still involves a lot of three-point shooting. And if you're going to maximize the possession game, a lot of those teams

also still take a lot of threes. And so it's one of these things where I think you nailed it that anytime there's like a big strategic shift, there's a period of catch-up. And in that window, the teams that dominate are the ones that understand the value of the new thing, right? Like, there was clearly a period of time where more teams, understood that how useful three-point shooting was and some teams didn't. And the teams in the former category just had an enormous edge. Everyone has caught up to the point that like the 2015 Warriors who ostensibly started the three-point revolution would be dead last in three-point rate this year.

Everyone is shooting at that level or more in terms of frequency now. It's just I think what where we are now is like it's not three-point attempts that kind of make you a good offense. It's not even three-point percentage that makes you a good offense. It's do you have the credit. spacing to do other stuff with it. And if you have enough shooters on the floor, if you had that space to run high functioning offense,

that's the prerequisite. It's not really about how many threes you get up. It's like, do your guys have to be guarded? Yeah, it's like that core competency of three-point shooting has really, has really leveled. And I think that you're absolutely right, that teams still take it seriously and cultivate that and try to find that as much as they can.

Because if you can't, I mean, the timeless truths are still, still there, which is, you know, if you have areas where we can dare you to do something that you can't do, those are still glaring. Like, you know, so teams, I don't know necessarily. I mean, like the spurs don't depend on threes, but they, they have to have guys that can hit them still, right? And I still think that that's the thing that's going to come to head in the playoffs, don't you? I think it inevitably will. And that's where you see kind of like the magnifying glass, or I guess microscope kind of case studies, right? It's like three-point shooting on the whole may not be the thing that is driving,

winning, and losing at the level that it was eight years ago. But can Alex Caruso hit enough threes in this crucial moment? Can Steph Castle hit enough threes in this crucial moment? It still determines which players supporting and otherwise can stay on the floor at those games. Yeah. So it's like the highest of highs of like, volume three-point shooting, that as your identity.

I also, well, that as your identity is still, this will speak to that point. I also think it's possible that the league ebbs and flows, it depends on who's in the league. I know that seems like a pretty obvious idea, but like, you know, our superstars right now have certain talents, you know, it's like Wim, Wimby is a rim pressure player, like his rim pressure on both ends or his anti-rim pressure on the other end is a big factor. You think about Luca getting to the basket is just as much up and generating free throws and generating, you know, ball movement and things like that. Shea, obviously, his driving force, he's become, he's cultivated a competent three point shot. But his driving downhill stuff is kind of the, how much of it do you think is that too?

It's just that like we went through an era where jumps, we had like, you know, Duran, we had Steph Curry, we had James Hardin. We were really lucky to have a cluster of players that happened to be really, really talented dribble pull-up shoot. and it just so happens that in the ebb and flow of talent coming in the league right now, we just have a lot of downhill room pressure players that are really talented. I think it's a huge part of it. I also think that those players are coming into the league, having been in a basketball ecosystem that has been so shooting heavy for some of the formative years of their developmental careers.

And so it's not really an accident, right, that those guys had the downhill runway that they've had and have become great drivers because they've grown up with all this shooting. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if I have anything to add to that. Yeah, that's good. Isaiah hit us with what's next.

What we got? From Thomas, what is your Mount Rushmore of OTS indie rock artists? I mean, this is our bullshit, Kyle. This is our time. Justin can't stop us. No one can stop us. Isaiah seems so enthused by that question. Did you just, it's just dripping.

Oh, my God, he was so excited. He was like, what is this? He didn't even know what the word aughts was. I was like, this Gin Z mother. That was hurtful. very hurtful to us. Where do you want to start with this? First of all, let me ask you this. Do you want to try to build a mountain Rushmore together?

Or do you think we're capable of that? Or do you just want to have our own little separate mountains? I think we need to have our separate mountains. It's so subjective. We're talking about art here. Rob, I don't have to agree with you. Damn it. I mean, I refuse, honestly.

But I do think that we'll agree on some things. Yeah. I do you think we will. Yeah. What do you think is the band or the artist in terms of indie rock music of the aughts? which we should clarify. We're thinking like 2000 to 2009 primarily that window of time. If you want to include 2010 and like blurt the line, that's cool with me too.

But who do you think we're most likely to agree on? I don't know about agreeing. I mean, like I'm not trying to do a pitchfork kind of approach where we as like an organization kind of composite thing. It's just like I did it. You don't want to be on my team. I'm not trying to oppose on you, Kyle. Well, I think the obvious one. I think you have to be specific though.

I think if you're talking about DeathGab, I think you've got to talk about the Bar-Suck era because when they go over, I guess it's to Atlantic, right? And they make plans. This is really getting in their granular. They're not an indie band anymore. They had like a hit on,

they have like SoulMeets Body on like TRL. I don't think it counts. So that would be my first one. I think you're talking about photo album, transatlanticism, Descap, I would say, is one of them. Yeah. And we have the facts too. Like, I mean,

that's an era where those are banger albums. But we stumbled into the larger indie rock debate. of is what makes indie rock a sound or a feeling or is it literally being on an independent label or putting things out yourself? I don't really know how to suss all that out, to be honest with you. There's a philosophy behind it that I will defer to the actual music experts to parse. But it brings up a band that I want to talk to you about because they would be on my Mount Rushmore if they qualify. Is Jimmy Eat World an indie rock band? Oh, well, their hit album they produced themselves.

They did famously. I think that is the essence of the conversation. So, yeah, I mean, Bleed American, I think is, I still pull that out. I mean, Futures is the shit, too. And goodbye Sky Harbor and everything. Yeah, great too. But, yeah, I mean, Futures is an all-time classic. It got bought by a label.

It did. I think it qualifies because they recorded it themselves. Well, in that case, yeah, Death Cabot, Jimmy World, I think, are easy inclusions on this list for me. Do you have anyone else you want to go to? I would quibble a little bit there because I think, Do you think they're pop punk, though? Do they count as indie purely there? I think they, I don't know.

I would tilt them a little more towards pop punk. This is one of my favorite bands. I've tried to get Rob in on this. This is one of my all times. Their early stuff is still incredible. Broken Social Scene from Canada is, I just think, I think they put out one of the best albums of that decade with forgot it people. I went to sell them perform it live, met their lead singer.

I love that band. They would be on My Rushmore. I think they're unbelievably good. The humble brag of I met Broken Social Scenes. He was just standing out from the mid- you. They're at that level of famous where that could happen and we got, yeah, we were, I could tell he was drunk, but we were, we were chatting it

up and he was a nice guy. I got to be honest with you. I don't know why I don't like broken social scene more than I do, but they just always, like it washes over me, I listen to the albums, it's all fine, I like it. Do I return to it? I can't say that I do. A band that I do return

to often, Rilo Kylie. I think they're basically their entire run is 2000s. I think they got to be here, no? No, I don't really have They're one that I'm not, I'm pretty ignorant on. I haven't listened to them much, to be honest with you. They're your broken social scene. Yeah, maybe a little bit there.

The other one that I know we don't want to linger too long in this, because I know people's eyes are glazing over, but Deer Hunter is one of my just all-time favorite bands. I think they just rock. They fucking sleigh. If you ever listen to cryptograms, if you ever listen to Weird Air, it continued. If you ever, like, they're just, they're awesome.

Anytime I was writing music, I was just like in the back of my mind, I was like, I would just really like to be Bradford Cox. because I just think he's awesome, so Deer Hunter would be on mine. No argument with Deer Hunter. I went more basic with the strokes. I think there's a lot of good, easy answers, but...

I can't say they're indie. Are they indie, though? They were, like, major labels were, like, laying down in the street, like, just... It's true. Like, I... Well, if they don't qualify... Again, this just depends on spiritually what you think indie rock is,

and I can't even tell you anymore, given how many cycles we've gone through all that. But, like, if not them, do Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes qualify? If not them, do the new pornographers qualify? If not them, does Block Party qualify? Like, I will go as far down the list as I must, but I'm going to

try to get these bands included if I can. One of the times that I almost strangled a person and went to jail was the lead singer in one of the bands that I was in called Delorians. The new pornographers were coming to Louisville, and they asked to play with the Delorians, and the guy

that was the lead singer who picked, he was like, I've never heard of him, and he said, no. I was like, I'm going to fucking murder you. Oh, my God. I'm going to murder you. I was like, what is wrong with you? Anyway, C and Cake would be a band, I would add. And then Modest Mouse would be another,

mood in Antarctica. That's all-time goaded, S-tier. And then Lowe, Destroyer, those are some more for me. I love Destroyer. Throw some hip-hop in there, ugly duckling, binary star, if you wanted to. Those are some of my favorites. The Ringray NBA show is brought to you by Fandul.

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polo shirts you love and elevate them with rich cable textures and new Tommy crests. And when you throw in easy, breezy light layers and linen essentials, you've got laid back sophistication. Explore more at Tommy.com. Isaiah, what do we have next that's not from the aughts? Yeah, no notes there. All great picks. This one is from Hunter for Kyle. Pick an NBA starting five of Kentucky alumni from any era. You'll be able to participate in this too, I think.

Oh, sure. I do have a list of, like, my personal favorites, but this is your time. Like, why don't you start then? Go ahead. Start. Okay. Well, these are not, look, they're not the best players. I can't even speak to who they were at Kentucky. But in terms of Kentucky alum in the NBA, these are five guys who I really love,

who I tried to craft into a starting lineup. John Wall, I mean, just one of the transcendent athletes and playmakers. And like the YouTube hype machine into him coming into the NBA, if you weren't there, I don't know how to explain it. Kason Wallace, who's just become one of my favorite players in the modern NBA, obviously. Michael Kid Gilchrist, just extremely my shit, never figured it out in terms of how to be an offensive player as a pro. He had some era misfortune. For him to come into the league and have the problems that he had and then the game changed.

I think that exacerbated what was going on. Unfortunately, he's one of those players who was not even like one era too late, but maybe like 25 to 30 years. too late in terms of when he came into the league. Because, yeah, he could have been a great run and finish guy on the Showtime Lakers. You know, like there was really a time for him and unfortunately was not with the Charlotte Bobcats. Jamal Mashburn, I mean,

one of our great mid-range merchants of all time. Nerlin's Noel, who I always really hoped would be a bigger deal than he was style for days. Don't know that he ever, like, took basketball 100% seriously on like a possession-to-possession-focused level, but could not help but love him. very childlike Nerlands, Noel.

Speaking to the John Wall thing, man, just the real pure mixtape era of the internet is really just a really a time that I miss. And I've told this story before that like right after college when I was an aimless moron, that was a really long era, actually. It might still be going on. But I was substitute teaching and playing music,

but I was substitute teaching at the school in Eastern Kentucky and over the intercom, Kentucky was recruiting John Wall at the time. And this is how sick it is here. The principal came over the intercom and said, John Wall just committed to the University of Kentucky, and people in the class cheered. You heard an

audible cheer. I was like, yeah, that's just, that doesn't happen in other parts of the world. So anyway, I made an actual lineup. We'll just go through here. I love Jamal Mash for need to make my list. Another honorable mention, a guy who is my age and from my part of the world, Rajan Rondo, who has a son

who is in eighth grade and is an ass kicker. Pierre, Rondo, you need to check it out. It's depressing. I know, but anyway, at Cinner, I've tried to field a basketball team. Pre-injury DeMarcus Cousins. I mean, so did I, for the record. That's at least like up down the positional spectrum. We're going to start with-

Can anybody shoot who's to say? We're going to start with pre-injury DeMarcus cousins. I think he was just, you know, obviously, I was rooting for his redemption arc there with the Warriors because I just wanted to see it. But DeMarcus has had his moments where he's made mistakes that I can't apologize for. But he's always kind of that, like,

That son that it's in your family where when they screw up, you're just like, come on, man. Don't come on. Let's not do that. Anyway, we don't write him off. We still love him here. At the four, though, I'm going to play Anthony Davis at the four with the Marcus Cousins, the Pelicans experiment. You know, I don't think we need to defend him.

At the three, I'm a Tachon Prince guy, man. I love Tashon Prince. I think he's the perfect glue role player to shoot the ball. He's probably my favorite all-time Kentucky player. I've told this story. We were at Summer League one time, and he walked by, and I was sitting with Bill, and Bill elbowed me and said, hey, Kyle, it's Tashon Prince.

And I fluttered and had this look on my face, and he said, you look like your high school crush, just walked by. And I turned and said, my high school crush did just walk by. Tashon Prince, my favorite. At the two, we need some shooting, movement shooting. Jamal Murray, actually, I'm going to put at the two. Okay. And then at the one, I'm going to put MVP, possibly two-time MVP, Shea,

come off the bench, and Booker, that's my, that's my lineup. I think we're going to be pretty good, Rob. Pretty fucking good team. You know, that's, that is an actual very competitive. And I have to say very modern basketball team. How do you feel about kind of the present skew of that group? The present skew in terms of like what they are now.

I mean, DeMarcus isn't going to give me much now if that's what you're talking about. No, that part is true. But in terms of like everyone you picked, if I'm not mistaken, is like been in the NBA over the last, what, five years? Yeah, yeah. I think, I legitimately think that would be. That's not a hot take. I don't need to say that.

I mean, that would be an incredible team defensively. Both sides of the ball, they'd be good. But it's wild, man. I mean, even just in the Cal area, you could put together a few. There are so many players I didn't even mention, and you could put together an awesome team. It's true. Also, I forgot Tayshan.

So you did reach. You know, it's not all current guys. But, Isaiah, what do we have next up? Definitely Kyle's team in four there. Okay, come on. I knew Isaiah would have a comment on that. Some of us are just trying to name some guys out here, all right? Dude's name of guys.

I'm a Pelicans fan, which is weird. My question sends from the fact that I can't imagine a future for this team. Every time I try to work out the next few years, my brain hits a wall. But what if you were the GM, what would your three-year plan look like? I want to say more broadly, the number of emails we got from fans of bad teams having full-on existential crises was at an all-time high for this mailbag. Chad's is representative of that, but the Pelicans are quite a quagmire, Kyle. I understand Chad's frustration and they're running into the wall

logically over and over of how you dig your way out of this. Because as you start kind of like plotting the steps, I think it's just going to be quite a while before this team is actually good again. Oh, yeah. I enjoyed Chad's wording, even in the first sentence of I'm a Pelicans fan, which is weird. That got a snicker out of me.

You can already just, hear the indecision and existential just floating in the ether that's going on for this person. I mean, do you have any like real, because I started to think of like real procedural things, but I was curious to get your opinion. I'll serve to you to start on what can they actually do here? So I have a couple procedural notes. I would say from a zoomed out perspective, I think Zion's presence and shadow over this organization is one of the biggest impediments to them like actually moving forward. And so trading him, even if it's for value that you would necessarily prefer, I think is in the Pelican's best interest at this point.

I think he's just one of these guys where he's not disruptive. He's been healthier this season than maybe any of his NBA seasons to date, to be honest with you. He just seems to warp the logic of the team by existing. Like his continued presence is in part, I think, what pushes them in the direction of wanting to be more competitive now. when they really shouldn't be. It lets them talk themselves into thinking, oh, we're a team to take seriously,

even though the rest of our roster suggests that we're not, and our record suggests that we're not. He's in this superstar uncanny valley, basically, where in theory, yeah, the Pelicans led by Zion Williamson should be good, but they're very clearly not. So what do you do with that information? I think you have to trade him. From there, I think there's a lot of reasonable arguments

about guys up and down the roster in terms of what you want to do. Weirdly enough, Kyle, I think a lot of, lot of this comes down to what is happening with Janice under de Kumpo, because if he continues to be a member of the Milwaukee Bucks, that has a radical impact on the Pelicans' draft future, considering they have a swap with the Bucks. So if the Bucks are going to continue to try to be good, that would mean that the Bucks pick, therefore, is not as valuable, which means the Pelicans themselves need to tank and lean into being as bad as possible in the present tense, which they're not capable of doing based on a recent history, or at least don't seem to want to

but I think that they should. If Yonis leaves the bucks, as we all expect him to do, but also we expected him to leave maybe a year ago, so who's to say, that gives the Pelicans a little more latitude to try in the interim. So if they wanted to keep Zioni Murray, there's a little more room to do that if the bucks are bad. But it's just frustrating to be a team that kind of should be rebuilding, but is resistant to it.

And also even then is a little bit reliant on another team's draft future to determine what you should be doing. Yeah, they're pretty leveraged in some tough spots here. I have a little bit more of a practical solution here. The first thing that I'm going to do is I'm going to hire an AI slop farm, slop farm somewhere in the world. And what we're going to do is we're going to set to making videos to make it look like Zion is working out with Drew Holiday in the off season on his defense. And he's very serious. We could even do another. We'll have a few different options. We'll have another video where he's going to be doing like a rocky montage where he's getting in Shay. He's doing like those sit-ups where he's hanging in the barn. Like it's going to be that kind of thing. And then what we're going to do is we're going to figure out a way to game Vivek Ronadivay's algorithm so that he sees this on his phone. And as we know, the older generation fooled by these AI videos. Of course.

What's going to happen is Vivek is going to be like, oh, oh shit. And, you know, Texor GM would be like, you know, I think Zion's got some stuff going on. I think this is one of our more credible legit options. If we can move because really you got to think about who are we targeting in the league. And I think Vivek is the target for that. So, you know, we're going to get to work on the AI stuff. We'll figure out how to pay for it later. Well, first question, what algorithmic lane do you think we need to tap into to feed Vivek's phone?

Like, what is he being fed on Instagram right now? I don't know, man. There's a lot of layers to this. We're going to have to have, it's going to be a pretty tricky operation. I can't speak to all the parties that are going to be involved, but I'm going to outsource some of that to some smarter tech people than me. I think you're right, though, that maybe the old. ultimate market inefficiency in the league right now is AI slop and trying to get ahead of it

before everyone fully catches up to being able to identify it at all times. Just trying to be early adopters, you know? I think you've got the right idea. All of which is to say the pelicans are kind of screwed. I'm sorry to say, Chad. It's going to be a minute. I don't really see a lot of like immediate ways for them to just move heaven and earth and all of a sudden be on the right path.

It's going to take some time to untangle. I do think like Herb Jones is a part of this. Trey Murphy is a part of this. Those guys are constantly in trade rumors. I don't feel or see any urgency to trade either one of them. Do you? I was going to say, Herb,

but the deadline was a guy, but he's on such a good contract. It's like you're not going to, it kind of hurt you in terms of the returning value there. Herb was the guy that I thought made the most sense to sort of align needs with a team that was close. Yeah, I could see that. Because he's such a difference-making defender.

Trey is somebody who I'm going to keep around. I think you just think it like the solid, you know, the solid pieces that I want to keep. I mean, I would say Queen is still there. I've always kind of worried about fears, but Trey Murphy is another guy that I would want to keep around in terms of personnel, core personnel. It's a mess, man.

Yeah, I really, you know, yeah, I really, there's not, I don't blame Chad for feeling like you're hitting walls because I think they have hit walls that they constructed themselves, honestly. To be honest with you, so. Completely. I mean, it's just hard to make sense of the fact that Trey Murphy is this good, and he's 25 years old. and so you don't want to trade him.

Zion Williamson has been good this season. DeJante Murray has come back, and I think it's been a little lost in the Jason Tatum focus, but has looked quite explosive for a guard coming off of an Achilles' injury, and yet there's still this. Even with all those things breaking right, this is who the pelicans are. So best of luck to New Orleans front office,

we will not be running it, but we may feed them some contracting fees for the AI slop farm. And in the meantime, we're going to keep answering questions. So, Isaiah, what do we have next? Yeah, so the next question is from Jake. Why do pods always talk about wanting matchups? Like, how do you want a certain seating so you don't play a particular opponent? Wouldn't you want to play a good opponent earlier?

As teams go along, their rhythm sinks and they get harder to beat. I think this one's kind of open and shut, Kyle. You just want to create more opportunity for things to go wrong for other teams. Is it any more complicated than that? In terms of wanting certain matchups, like who you'd rather see than somebody else? So I think the idea that Jake is talking about is something that we raise,

the other teams raise where it's like, oh, if you can stay on the other side of the thunder in the bracket, if you can stay on the other side of like if you don't think you match up well with the Celtics or the Knicks. Yeah, I want to delay. Yeah, wanting to delay as much as possible.

Jake's argument is like, if you are catching teams later, they're going to be harder to beat because they're going to be in rhythm. I think that's going to be true of almost anyone at that stage. And so if there's a team that you don't think you match up well with,

you want to create opportunities for their bad shooting to lead to them losing, for them getting upset, for them, you know, God forbid, having like serious injuries that compromise their seasons. Like,

you just want to get them off the board without having to do the work yourself. Yeah, and there's so many different conditions, too. This was another thing we were asking Jared Dudley about was like, you know,

for the nuggets in particular. Like, I'd rather see the nuggets earlier because they have so many things that they're figuring out. I definitely, teams go into the, playoffs in varying states. A lot of teams will have like, okay, we're trying to get right.

It's really not typical that a team is going to go in and be just firing on all cylinders. Like we're seeing that with the pistons. Just so many different things can go wrong. So honestly, I don't know that it's like a blanket beginning. It just, it varies a lot. So I don't know that there's any one answer to that. It's a great point. Isaiah, what do we have next? Next one is from Josh. My question is a little out of the box, but I've been wondering something. how do you all watch all the games with so many games being played each night?

What is your process to stay up to date and informed? Do each of you have a different process? I'd love to hear your process and how you prepare for each show. How do we watch all the games? Simple answer, Josh, we don't. How could you? How could you possibly?

Physically impossible. Completely overwhelming to keep up with the entire schedule. So, I mean, Kyle, we pick and choose, right? What is your general approach in terms of how you are watching NBA games. And granted, you're having to keep track of everything going on in college basketball, too. Oh, God. I mean, I definitely, there are several, lots of nights, you know, I would say in the dozens of dozens and dozens, where I try to get the Command Center going, where I have as many as

six games going at once. But to be honest, yeah, I mean, like, you get, you get, the more games you watch, the fewer games you watch has kind of been my thing lately. It's just like, I'd rather, I would rather sit down with one game and really, really watch it. And if I watch, and a lot of times I'll start with several on the screen. And we're just talking about the live experience. We're not even talking about the time when you can go on Synergy or whatever platform it is. I mean, I have the League Pass app where I can go back. You know, we've had Second Spectrum in the past.

But I'll go and folk start and maybe one will draw my attention if there's a blowout. They just kind of discard themselves as we go. In terms of live experience, how do you handle that? That's kind of how I go about it. I mean, I'm getting to the point where I will watch like, matchups live as much as possible. You know, if it's a marquee game or, and that includes like my own personal marquee, you know, based on what I'm interested in seeing or what I kind of feel like I need to see

this week. Like, for example, the Hawks and the Celtics play tomorrow. That's a game I would really like to watch life. That's one I want to be plugged in for to see kind of what's up with the Hawks and see this as a measuring stick game for them. But other, like, I'll do the marquee game. I am a one game at a time guy. I just do not have the capacity to watch multiple screens and I get lost a lot

bouncing between them, so I try to lock it on one game. I just find myself increasingly relying on those other resources you mentioned, in particular synergy where I have it down to an art or down to a science, I guess, is the preferred term, where I can crunch out a game in like 65 minutes, skipping free throws, skipping timeout, just like every dead ball that I don't need to be watching that will not tell me something, I'm going to try to get out out of that as much as possible. Key commands. You got to know the key commands. You got to know the key. key commands. You got to be scrubbing two seconds. I'm like two second, two second, two seconds.

Scrubbing two seconds at a time is literally changed my entire life. So this is what we do now. You know, I try to, I plug into games at night, especially if it's one that you like is a big deal or you want to be a part of the conversation or whatever that is. But I'm doing a lot of work the next morning at this point. That will change during the playoffs where that's like not an option anymore and you're just watching live all the time. But for the regular season, I mean, you got to pace yourself. You do. And in terms of, there's also the sort of journey of just trying to follow and find out what you need to be watching. You can, you know, you can box score comb and things like that.

Oh, like, oh, wow, you know, what happened there? Why did that happen? You know, that kind of thing. I mean, you and I've talked a lot about this. When you're trying to look for patterns and interesting trends and things like that, I use lineup data. I think I love sharks turn me onto popcorn machine. Dot net, which has been down. I know.

Bring that site back. Please, please. Who do we need to talk to? Do we need to start a GoFundMe? What do we have to do to get popcorn machine back? Somebody relayed to me that the person who's on Blue Sky said that they were working on getting it back. But I would use that site to see, like,

okay, they went on a run. These are the players that were in. And then I would cross-reference that with the timestamps on Synergy and look at the play type data and be like, okay, that's really interesting. I'll watch that stretch. And sometimes you'll find something and sometimes you won't. And like tracking data can be,

and the interesting thing is tracking data for people who don't have access to Synergy. Tracking data is all available. on NBA.com and play by play video is available. So if you're really savvy, you can go into the play by play that is available on NBA.com and watch the clips and get access to video. You don't even necessarily have to have synergy.

So I don't know if you knew that or not, but I'm not saying you, Rob, but there's a lot that's available if you're on the other side of that wall out there and you want to see it. Completely. I think for guys like us, or if you're covering the NBA in any capacity,

it really boils down to two buckets. It's like, what are you watching as like a confirmation exercise, I think this thing, and I want to see more evidence of it, to nail down whether it's true or not. And that usually requires, like, digging into full games, understanding the ebbs and flows. Like, if you just jump into someone, like, I just want to watch every shot attempt that Cade Cunningham has taken, you're going to miss the vast majority of the way he's manipulated the game. So you have to be very careful about that kind of stuff.

And then the other part of it, I think, is pure discovery, which is what you're talking about with the lineup data, which I think you can glimpse in a box score and go back in reverse engineer, and you can look at rotation patterns and try to go back and watch. You'll also just, you know, over the course of these games, just be plugged in and be like, oh, my God, like, I didn't know Gigi Jackson was doing this this season. And so you really need that healthy balance of, I think, something and want to prove it right or wrong versus I don't even know what I'm looking for and I want to be caught by surprise. Yeah, and there's the element of me laughing at myself, stepping back, where you mentioned,

you know, trying to find patterns and the confirmation thing. I know you've had this happen if you do this job is that there are, many, many times where I thought that I saw a pattern and I get far and I pull on the rope that I think is really, really long and then the rope just stops. And I'm like, oh, man, this thing that this pattern that I thought was, or I watched the tape and I'm just like, yeah, that's not at all. Which I'm sure in the industry, I'm not being accusatory. I'm sure there's a lot of people who get to the end of that rope and they're like, I've invested the time. I'm just going to go ahead and make the argument and just go through, just push through. But yeah, those are some pretty

hilarious moments where I'm just like, man, I drove down this road. thinking there was an exit and there is not. So that's just part of it, man. Those people are definitely out there in terms of who are justifying the effort with the take or just it's such a novel thought that you want to make the claim, even though you know in your heart of hearts. Oh, wait, I just looked at their schedule and they just played the nets three times in a row and maybe that's why this is happening.

That's one that'll get you. But so it goes. Isaiah, what's next? I'm a big multi-view guy. I watch probably too many games at once or like I'll just box score. like later in games and I'd be like oh the Knicks and Pelicans are in a game let me turn that on

so you're surfing then I get Chermire fears cooking I'm like great nice you're NFL red zoning but just for like where's the Jeremiah fears pop yeah like I look for scores and I'm like well that's a weird score like why is that game close or like or you look at a boxer and you're like why does the eighth guy on the grizzlies have

like the Burton kid the other night had like 25 and a Celtics like what is happening here just stuff like that is like I guess how you're I watch more teams. It's good coverage. But the next question is from Justin.

If you zoom out beyond pure basketball and think about just narratives, which team winning the title this year would make for the most compelling overall story? It's a good question from Justin, which I assume no relation to our Justin, but who's to say? This is the kind of thing he would want us thinking about, you know, the narrative standpoint of this year's playoffs. Kyle, did anything jump out to you in terms of what makes the best, story for this postseason? Well, just starting from the Knicks perspective, I think for a, for it to be like a compelling, like the titles come home kind of thing.

I think we, you have to, there is a long, long, long arc for that to, there has to be a long arc for that to become a thing to the point where I think about baseball, I think about like the 2016 World Series. Like I was very invested in that. My father-in-law is a big Cubs fan. But it has to be like a drought that is so long that it's taken on a persona of like there's a curse attached to it, whether it's the goat or the bambino. Like, it has to be, that to me is the only way that it can reach that level to start with.

I don't know if you have a thought on that. I think you're right. We get a little over the top in terms of those sorts of stories where it's just like, oh, this team hasn't been good for 10 years and thus this is like a great reawakening of everything they used to be. I don't know. There are enough like truly long-suffering franchises that I think we can tip our head to the truly distraught among us.

Yeah. The other one, you know, we were talking about the ones that he listed out here. You kind of run into this question of guys bolstering or, you know, whatever word you want to, you know, solidifying their case to varying degrees. Like, Yokic is probably trying to, like, solidify his, like, top 10 or whatever it is, you know. I'm sure somebody will, like, you know, shake their fist to me for even saying that. But, you know, Steph was an interesting one, I think. I find myself more interested in these guys who are on an upward trajectory proving it a little bit earlier than we thought. I think we've had a lot of compelling examples of that. You know, Jordan and 91 breaking through finally after just kind of like going up the hill, running up that hill and getting the boot to the face back down.

You know, the Warriors in 15 being a little bit ahead of schedule. Honestly, probably they're ahead of schedule series. We're probably 13 and 14. But that one with the paradigm shift, that was a really. interesting one just because it was such a harbinger of like the way things were going to change. I don't know, like Magic Johnson playing Cinder, you know, so in playing and winning a title back in like 1980. I think Wimby for that reason is probably the most interesting one to me.

Agree. Do you disagree or disagree there? There you go. Yeah, I'm on the same page. I think in part because him winning would represent just a complete defiance of what we consider to be like the requirements to win a title, right? Like you have to have these kinds of players. You have to have this level of experience.

You have to go through those trials you were talking about with Jordan. Like the arc and the hero's journey of what makes an NBA superstar is pretty tried and true at this point. There are exceptions to it. And most notably one of those exceptions was Tim Duncan coming into the league and winning in year two. But this would be Wemby winning without a David Robinson, unless Steph Castle just becomes David Robinson somehow. But like, it would be a build of a team and a style of team. There would be a holy shit moment because of what it represents for Wemby and the Spurs and the future of all this. Yeah, I mean, do you, so you tell you don't care about LeBron getting another ring, that doesn't really, that would be pretty incredible.

It would be very cool. I don't, I just don't think it's all that plausible. Like, part of this question to me is like, what are the things that could realistically happen? And the Lakers winning a title is just realistic enough to put them on the title pie and all that, but they would have to overcome a lot. And I think it would just be almost too long a shot at this point to really pencil that one in. Yeah, I think the answer is Wemby. Yeah. One other answer, I do think the Celtics winning would be a great story. From the perspective primarily of like a team of like strivers that's getting- Isaiah on here. Isaiah, come on back. Let's talk about the Celtics. He's fucking gritting.

Like those are dudes who decided not to take a gap year as a gap year. And if they did that to withstand Jason Tatum's absence and then his rehab and then he comes back and is good and they win the title, that would be an amazing. story. It would also make working at this company completely untenable, so I'm not like rooting for it. But it is something that you would have to acknowledge. Like, wow, they really put that thing together. I also think it would be cool in a year where like we've done so much hand-wringing about tanking and like how bad it is for the league. And then a team that was everybody thought was going to. And then somehow found a way to win the title is pretty cool. And like,

a lot of these guys were on the team that won in 24 but didn't play. And now they're like, big contributors. And, like, I think that's also pretty cool. Like, Kada being a starting center now is, like, whoa, right? Like, I think, I'm biased, obviously, but I do think it be pretty cool. I think it's a great point, though. Like, what do we want to see rewarded in the NBA? It's teams that go for it, teams that don't take the tanking out at the easiest opportunity.

And you're right, Isaiah, about the build of the team. Like, this is five years of acquiring guys at the end of the first round, beginning of the second round, you know, undrafted free agents. like guys who are in that zone that is theoretically attainable for everyone. And they made good decisions that have turned out to pay off. And they took a minute. They took the patience to cultivate it to develop those guys. But there are a lot of stories on that roster worth rooting for.

Yeah, I think they're, I've talked, I mean, this is my lane, obviously. But the developmental story with the Celtics is one of the more interesting ones in recent memory, just because if you look at, I mean, they took Luke Cornett, who was a guy who was considered like a so-so, you know, catch and shoot, you know, pop. picking pop big and he that's totally not what he is anymore he's a way way more like little intrinsic kind of you know tying it all together kind of thing and then i mean shireman they figured out a way to make him play they're it's just on and on they've really gotten a lot out of these guys so uh yeah the the celtics penis gonna be insufferable if they win i don't want to be around he's worse than me honestly he's gonna be on another level i also just don't think

like chris ryan's hard could take it if he has to go through another round of celtics exceptionalism. So for all of our sakes, you know, I don't really want to say like I hope they don't win, but honestly, for my personal sake, I kind of hope they don't win. Yeah, what do we have next? The next one is from Michael.

I've got a funky question. What musical artist comes closest to approximating what stuff makes you feel when you watch them? The combination of awe-inspiringness, the holy shit he's pulling from the logo, but that's somehow a good shot for him, making everyone better in such a unique way.

I know I've seen this before, but I still kind of believe it's happening piece. What musician makes you feel something close to that live? I feel like Michael lobbed this right at me. I don't know. Well, let's hear it. You don't tee off. What do you have, Kyle? I'm happy to oblige.

I was contemplating this. I was listing out my criteria here. I think it has to be an artist in a live setting that can reach incredible virtuosic highs. So naturally, your mind would go to, okay, so who's virtuosic? you would think, okay, well, jazz is usually where organic, like, moments that could go anywhere happen. But I don't think it's jazz. I think it needs to be somebody that has jazz qualities, but they also have pop sensibility. So they need to appeal to people who are not music nerds, but also they need to have layers below what they do, where music nerds are also simultaneously being like, oh, my God, there's so much shit you want.

The first answer here, I think, is just Prince. I mean, Prince, Prince in the live setting, if you could, if good Lord, Prince, just release, make us pay for them. at least. I would pay for him. Like live performances, you know, there's so many vaults. You know, there's so much footage out there. He's the person, I think, that, you know, I remember he was just playing like a cover of, like, creep. A radio had song that's not even my favorite.

And he just rattled off some solos. I was just electrified. Musically, he's interesting. If you listen to Dorks, and then he also has a song like Little Red Corvette that'll make, like, somebody who knows nothing about music or whatever it might be getting excited. So Prince is the first. for me. I think that's the one.

Like, both in the terms of like shattering the mold of what an artist and a guitarist is, but doing it in a way that isn't alienating to pop audiences, like you mentioned, the like he is so virtuosic, but he's also incredibly unselfish as a performer in the way he shares the stage. But when the moment comes, like, I always think, I mean, there's that the clip that's circulated from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame where him and Tom Petty and everybody's doing while my guitar gently weeps. And everyone kind of has their moment. And then Prince's moment comes. it's just like, what the fuck?

Like, everyone is, like, the people on stage are basically bowing to him in deference. And if that's not like a double bang for a performer, like, I really don't know what it is. That's a real, like, well, we'll say that. But I was going to say, there's one that I would throw in that's a little less off the beaten path. What you got?

This guy has this quality. He has jazz sensibility and pop sensibility. And he's my favorite guitar player. And that's Ruben Nielsen from No More. orchestra. I've seen him live a lot of times. And he has access to things like modalities in his solos that like other players just don't. If you listen to his solo even on like Honeybee has a track by UMO, I would go check out. It has like one of my favorite pop solos. It's like he's, he's really, really good and I think underrated. It's a popular band, but I personally think that he's

got that same. Oh, I did a quick, really quick story. This is Prince Tyon, too. Some of my friends were playing a Prince, like, it was around Derby, and a popular thing for the bands in my city was, like, play like a tribute show. So you just, it was like Halloween as a band, basically, dress up like them. They were doing a Prince thing. There was this festival called Forecastle.

Have you ever heard of that? It was going on in Louisville. It was a great music festival. It's gone the way the Dodo. It's not around anymore. But when it was going on, I went to see them do this, and it was like on a Sunday night. Weren't as many people there as on the Saturday and Friday times that they did it.

But they get to Purple Rain and they're playing it. And it's getting to the spot. where the solo is going to happen. And this little short guy goes up on stage. And I was like, oh, my God, that's Ruben Nielsen. Ruben Nielsen. I don't know how they did this. Ruben Nielsen from UMO goes up and plays a purple.

I don't know if anybody has video of this. My brain oozed out through my ears. It was the most unbelievable thing that I've ever seen in my life. So there we go. Even another prince tie-in. Go listen to you. Oh, damn it. They're awesome.

The way you close the loop on that. I mean, just masterful. I didn't even realize that was going to happen. But yeah, that was one of the crazier live things I've ever seen. Look at you. Just really doing it better than anyone has before, Kyle. I appreciate you. Isaiah, what do we have next?

Next question is from Airy. What is the most important thing about life that you learned from basketball? This sent me down quite a rabbit hole, Kyle, of introspection, of self-reflection. I took it almost as like a little less about what I've learned from watching basketball and more what I've learned from playing basketball. Although they're, you know, on some level one and the same. It's all experiential. I think I said all known two things.

One, there's nothing cool about not trying. And there are so many areas of life where people just kind of float through and can seem like standoffish and ethereal and think that it gives them a sense of import because they're not going for the thing. I've just come to accept that like the coolest thing you can do is to really fucking go for it.

And I really respect people who do it. And certainly if you're playing basketball and you're on a court with people who think they're too cool to actually play defense or to actually grab a rebound or just our kind of standing around chucking threes. It's just the worst basketball experience you can have as a player. That's a good one.

I mean, yeah, we definitely went through, you and I being like vaguely the same age. I mean, we definitely went through an era that I encountered that I didn't particularly enjoy. I guess that was the jaded, ironic, you know, millennial internet with the, like, carless from, like, hipster runoff thing, or it's just, like, not cool to try. I think we kind of gotten away from that a little bit. I agree with you. I've always been some of the tries. I don't really know any other way than to be.

sincere and go for it. You know, some people, you know, you don't want to be cringe. I think sincerity and effort are just like, they're endearing quality. So I'm with you. I don't really see you. I've never, and I've never, that also speaks to the fact that I've just never really been very cool. So I've always just kind of like, like they're being standoffish and like not going for it.

It's never been something that I can pull off because it's just not me. So I'm with you, Rob. That is our opportunity, right? By not being cool, we can lean more into not being cool. but if trying is cringe, give me all the cringe you got. I just think that's, it's a better way to live. It's a more infectious energy when you're around people who live and operate that way. So again, I really respect it.

The other one for me, Kyle, was you can be selfish even while doing the seemingly unselfish thing, and you can be unselfish even while doing the seemingly selfish thing. And I say this in part because there are, there are guards out there in particular who are like, they get a ton of assists. they make very flashy passes, but they control the ball in a way that wears down the game and takes all of the energy out of it.

And on the other hand, on the other side of things, there are people who take a lot of shots or who score a lot, who are doing it in a way that is kind of unselfish, that by overpassing, they would be doing a detriment to their team. And so I think you have to rewire your brain

with basketball a little bit beyond just like, oh, points are a selfish thing, or scoring is a selfish thing, and assists are unselfish, because there are just so many, arguments to the contrary, and you really have to feel it. Yeah, the volume of this thing. I feel like the 2016 MVP race was like one of the real culminations of that

conversation. And then I think as it's segued into like the Helio era where it was like just controlling it too much and then it hits a wall as we've seen. But then we saw it sort of like go back the other way with the Warriors winning it. And then like LeBron as a hub winning it with the Lakers. I'm trying to make it in an NBA. But that does kind of segue to something that I've noticed about my play style. I think the next question is probably a nice jump.

I don't know what it is, Isaiah, but I feel like the next question that's on our list would be a nice next one for this. But for me, I'll call back to Charks again. I think we had a podcast where we were talking about just dumb asses we were when we were younger. And just being, you know, like I loved to score when I was younger. And it was very like I was somebody that had to learn

a lot of hard lessons about like just playing, suiting what was going on, Even as a musician, I think I went through this process of just figuring out how to do less. Like, do less, be less ostentatious, be less visible, suit the thing that we're all doing here together. And I think there was a lot of commonality between, you know, I think your personality really does come out on a basketball court. And I think as I've gotten older, I've talked a lot about how like assist to usage, you know, I had a funny, and I think John and I talked about this. I had a funny realization one day where I was just like, I love this stat. I was like, what's my assiste usage?

I was like, it's not very good. And then I started thinking about my, like, just day-to-day life. I was like, what's my sister usage? I was like, my, like, just usage and worried about, like, what I'm doing is pretty poor? I was like, I was just thinking about, like, what could I do for my wife today?

What could I do for my parents? What could I, you know? I definitely think that those things, like, past group dynamics are all over the place. People ask me about, like, why do you bring up music so much with, with basketball? I'm just like, they're remarkably similar. Like, suiting a song is very similar to, like,

suiting a possession in basketball or shooting a run and just things like those kinds of and I honestly treasure those things more as I get older just that like they're they're just it's really fun and it's like this is a little bit more hit the bong a little more sentimental but I think it's just kind of how human beings were meant to be honestly and increasing in this like customized siloed off your earbuds are in everything is tailored to you kind of world I think COVID revealed a lot of this too. I'm really rambling now, but I just think that, I think those things are increasingly water in the desert for me, those kind of group dynamic. It's not why I miss music, frankly, so much. But I think basketball is a reflection of that. Is that a good way to tie it off?

I think it's completely a reflection of that. And a lot of those realities, we took some detours, but I think you're absolutely right about human nature and kind of what we crave and the environments in which were best suited. So many of those are independent. especially like here in America, it's just kind of what we do. But I feel like you can really tell who grew up playing team sports and who did not, when you meet adults out in the world, kind of like who is conditioned to that environment, who understands the give and take of circumstance, who knows, like you're saying, like the virtues of doing less sometimes and what that can do for a collective.

Not everyone is good at it, and certainly there are plenty of people who grew up playing team sports who were still very bad at it, but it is a skill set in and of itself, and I think one that is just deeply admirable. I had a roommate. Two of my roommates in college were these Venezuelan guys who were jazz natures. And it could have been a TV show because they understood this and I didn't. When I was younger, we were playing music and one of them pulled me aside, just forgive this Venezuelan accent for just a moment.

He goes, come, man, you're doing too much. He would say that to me all. You were doing too much. And I would get very resentful, but he was right. So just think about if you're doing too much. Well, do you want to take yet another detour into? We got a question from Damien about our pickup basketball lives. Whatever direction you want to take this, your personal scattering report, your shoe breakdown.

What is it that you want to tell the people in the group chat listeners about Kyle Mann, the pickup basketball player? I feel like Moore is out there about me as a bass pickup than you, Rob, because I've released the tape. I've released tape with me shooting the ball. I've had it in videos. I feel like it's been out there. I think, I don't know. Is it fair for me to just bounce it back to you first on this one? Because I'm more curious.

That's fair. Go ahead. I mean, I've been in media runs for, I don't know, going on 18 years now. So, like, the people in the industry are familiar with my work. Is there tape of it out there? I don't think there's a lot of it. You know, some things are best kept behind closed doors. What's the scattered report?

You're inside, though, signature move. That was on there. What's a signature? What's your go to, Rob? I do, I mean, look, I am a classic, like, you go to your move until you're stopped. And so, like, I am a low post, like, back down, back down, baby hook kind of player, first and foremost. But you take that away. I'm going one foot fader, Dirk style, on the baseline.

Like, that's just who I am and how I was raised. So that is a signature move of a kind for me, for sure. I have a couple signatures. One of them is people, it is like a joke where people think it's coming and it's like, I go to it a lot. If I have a small, I'm going dirk. And I can do the dirk in transition. I'll do it fast. It doesn't even need to be in the half court.

I'll do it and I'll bump you and then spin and shoot it. Love that. My percentage on that one used to be incredible. I have another one, it's increasingly not as good because my left knee sucks and I shoot it off my left knee. I have another one where if I'm posting on the right side, I do the Rondo going to the left, yeah, going to the left scoop under the defender's hand with my right hand.

People never see that shit coming. You remember Rondo used to do that? He did all the time. You know, floater game. I mean, I honestly, like, I over the years have kind of changed it. I used to shoot a ton of, like, Rip Hamilton and Ron Mercer were my guys running off of floppy action and, like, shooting dribble pull-ups and things like that. Those are just harder to shoot as you just wear and tear on your knees and your calves and your heels.

So I don't do them as much, but that used to be a pretty big part of my game, aside from shooting a ton of threes. I mean, that's a great staple for pickup, especially where everyone is tired and running ragged. Like, if you can be a movement shooter, an hour into your pickup run, I mean, that's just easy money as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I was definitely a like, please stop moving type person when I was doing that. Like, it's not as much anymore, but yeah, my wife will see me from the walking track of our gym and she'll be like, oh, you're going to exercise. She's like, I've seen you play basketball. You're not exercising. She was like, you saunter.

I was like, oh, my gosh. This is another reason why it's best to not be on tape. Like, once you see yourself lightly jogging up a pickup court or like a men's league game or whatever, like, There's just no coming back from that. How about the shoes? What are you got? I'm mostly a LeBron guy. I need the stability as more than anything.

So I usually go for like a pretty heavy shoe. And I just do not trust the lower profile of a lot of more modern releases. So I'm usually like three. We're so opposite. Yeah, because you're you're really low cut. Are you still rocking pumas? Is that still where you are? No, I mean, I was a Kobe 9 guy for a long time.

And I would just get them wherever I could. Obviously, his passing made it harder to get them for a while and when it seemed like the vault was closed. Now it's back open. But when that was going on, I switched over to and I became a Puma guy. I think Puma, if anybody has any pairs or if Puma wants to send me some Puma Clyde All-Pro's, I'm always on eBay trying to find them. Kobe 9 and Puma Clyde All-Pro. Jordan 28 was another one I really liked a lot. But I'm all about low to the ground, tracky, start and stop.

I like the low stuff. The Stoey-4, Puma Stewie 4 was really, really good. Yeah, I'll say those are harder to get in men's sizes, though. Yeah, I mean, that is now our struggle. You know, it's very tough for men's basketball players out there, but there are an increasing number of, like, very great signature shoes coming from women's basketball players that we're trying to get our hands on.

You know, we're trying to get their appropriate sizes. This is our struggle. Please sympathize with us. Isaiah, why don't we go to this question from Brendan about Nicola Yokic? I also have to say, I cannot believe you guys are both Dirk Fade guys. I did not see that with coming. That is incredible. We are of our era, you know?

Well, Isaiah, what's your signature move? You're a prolific hoops player yourself. I mean, I'm definitely like a grab-and-go guy, like get the board and push immediately. I like to play in space. But I'm very much an in-and-out, right-to-left cross. Hell yeah. Finish with the right hand, ideally.

On the left side, ideally. Don't make me go left kind of finish. I like to go left, even though I'm right-handed, but I do not finish my left very often. I do, too. I like to shoot. I dribble pull-up, go left. My floater has just gotten deeper and deeper. I'll take it from like 16 feet. Because I don't want to finish anymore.

I had like a year where I turned my ankle like two or three times in a row and I just started becoming the floater guy. And you can catch people really off guard because they're backpedaling and you're just like, and they're like, oh, shit. Like I didn't even get a chance. It's great. Yeah.

Yeah, my dad told me like everybody's going to sit on your right hand, so just go left. We didn't get to the part where I finish with my left, but I always go left. You got the first part down. I have no left hand. It's awful. But yeah,

This question from Brendan, I want to hear your thoughts on the flip and defensive strategy that teams are using against Yokic, with more and more small guards fronting him and really frankly hacking the shit out of him before he gets the entry pass. He has clearly been bothered and has been throwing the ball all over the court recently, but is it too early to have pulled this move out against the smartest basketball player of all time, giving him time to adjust his decision making before the playoffs? Yeah, this has been a real capital T thing going on in Nuggets games where everyone is Alex Caruso now. Everyone is like the wing or the guard fronting Yokic, fowling

him a lot. I do think that's a fair thing to say. Making him kind of come over the top to draw fouls or try to really bully guys. I don't know about the idea that like should teams have waited to not show Yokic they're not operating in tandem. They're not a coalition. They're trying to win

that game. And so the idea that they should all be working together to not do something against Nicola Yokic. I just don't think the world really works that way. Oh, my gosh. Gosh, yeah, with Yoko. I mean, I understand the thought process of Yokic, has Yokit's not seen this? I think that's an interesting thing to go back and track.

It's like, has he never, ever seen this before? He's also been a little bit, he's physically still kind of not quite the same, but I don't know if he's going to get there by the end of the run here. That could be an issue too, right? I think that's a huge part of it, especially like, I mean, when you're on the court as a player and you're injured at all, the most comfortable things to do are the things you see all the time, right? Like the bigs that you know what buttons to press, press, what moves to go to, how to get your up and unders, how to set them up. That stuff's easy.

I feel like the smalls and the pressure that they're applying in the fronting is like just enough of a divergence while you're still recovering to make everything that much more uncomfortable. And I don't think it's a coincidence that in a lot of these games, it's really the only times you see Yoh gets rushed a little flustered, throwing the ball around, high turnovers. Like, that stuff has been going on for a reason. I think a lot of it is just because of how he is feeling in tandem with the pressure the teams are applying. Yeah, it's like size to size, Yokic has proven that he puts those guys who maybe don't have the lateral, you know, mobility, the patience to play away from the basket, the just start, stop, torture that he puts you in. Big guys just there aren't a ton of them in the world that are like ready to do that. And even the elite ones like Anthony Davis, I mean, he toys with those guys. So it's just kind of like, it is an interesting curveball to throw at him at this.

stage of his career. I guess my question would be, I don't know that I have a like a prescription right now other than like him being physically up to up to the task and things like that. I mean, do you think this is something that he's going to figure out? Is his aging curve going to make this a problem? Is there a place on the floor that they could put him more frequently? What do you see as the fix for this? I don't think it's a long-term issue, especially once he's feeling healthier and coming into, you know, next season. I don't think it's going to be the kind of thing we continue to talk about, but could it be an issue this season? I think it's a realistic possibility.

You can move Yocach all around the floor, though. And so it's not really a matter of, like, do you put him here or there? The world is your oyster. You can move him up the floor. The issue with Smalls guarding him is it makes it easier in theory to do more switching in terms of handoffs or pick and rolls with Jamal Murray. It just makes the interchanges of guarding what the Nuggets do a little cleaner. So it has to be, I think, by default, a little more low post or mid-post oriented.

And it may just be as simple as sometimes the move is getting Yokic the ball at the elbow and shooting over the top or going to that kind of one step floater that he has better touch on than almost anyone else in the sport, maybe in the history of the sport. So there's lots of avenues available to him. And we should say this stuff is bothering him. He also just put up 23, 21, and 19 against the Mavs last night while Jamal Murray was going for 53. He's doing all right. You know, he doesn't always look fully comfortable or fully himself. But I'm not too worried about Nicole Yokic. Yeah, what makes him sweat is

It's a little bit different than other players Because he's just able to impact the game And so many ways the whistle's going to matter a whole lot too Obviously, you know, it's if a team has the depth To continue to throw that at him I mean, that's one thing But if he If he

If it's dictated on a certain night That it's going to be called a certain way It might be advantageous for, you know, the team to just be like All right, this is like, this is not To pull it back, this is not a rope that we to continue to pull on. Maybe we should try to push other buttons. But that officiating, I mean, that's the big variable.

And bigs in the league get such a raw deal. Like, they can be hacked and slapped and scratched in a way that basically no one else at any other position can, regardless of where they are on the floor. I think it's smart for defenses to lean into that as much as possible. And as far as why teams are doing this now and not waiting, the other part of it is your smalls have to get used to playing this way. Not every guard knows how to front the post, especially against someone like Yokic and get away with. it and understand where the line is in terms of that physicality. So I think there's a learning curve that's going both ways right now. Isaiah, why don't we wrap up with this question from Jared?

All right. Last question from Jared is, of the 10 NBA franchises that have never won a title, Nets, Hornets, Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies, Timberwolves, Pelicans, Magic, Sons, and my beloved Jazz, which team do you think is the closest to winning it all? And more importantly, who do you think is the furthest from that achievement? ending on a bit of hope. Kyle, I think, can we put the Pacers aside? They just went to the NBA finals.

I feel like they might be cheating. Is that fair? Yeah, I wrote this now. I was like, yeah, the Pacers have an argument that they're close because they got insanely close. Granted, they did lose some key pieces, but they did. You know, I don't know that I would include them. You want to start at like most favorable and least favor?

Or most likely, mostly? Yeah. Where are you thinking most likely of this group? the team that's the closest, I think that could like, even for the next couple of years could make like a minor tweak that could make a huge difference. You've got to say Minnesota, right? I think it has to be.

Yeah, I mean, because they have a player who's on a trajectory that is pretty damn high. What could start to creep in is like, you know, Gobert and Randall's timeline, how it sort of interacts with him in that way. But they seem like a team that if they made a move, maybe not even in the margins. There's a move to be made that could make them... I'm saying they're close,

but I don't even know that they're going to win even still. It might not. Who knows what that means, but I think they're probably the closest. But being able to envision it, if you're the wolves, I think is just something that that franchise has almost never had. Really, they've had a couple of glimpses at it

during the KG era where it's like, okay, you can see the path in 04, right? Like get past the Lakers, get to the finals, somehow outmustled the pistons, but that team had a lot of guile, a lot of talent, a lot of savvy. You could envision the track to get there. I think this is probably the first time since then that that vision even exists. And that's a huge thing for an organization.

Certainly one of these long-suffering fan bases who just had so many droughts throughout. It's like relatively short history compared to other franchises, but they've been so bad for so long that I think it just means a lot to know that you have a player like Ant, through whom all things are possible. I think it has to be them. I do think you're right, though,

that they're going to have to re-envision their front court at some point. Like the Gobert, Nas, Julius Randall, triangulation, it's not going to be who they always are, just by contracts and age and all of that. And you can already see them kind of playing around with some other possibilities here and there with like, hey, Kyle Anderson, you're going to be like a big for us in this surprisingly important capacity.

They're going to be a team that's changing shape over time, but with Ant, you can afford to change shape in a lot of different ways. I had a wolves related thing that was a minor, minor anecdote. The other day I tweeted out something, I thought it was vague, but I just tweeted out a cancerous trait in a basketball team is when they have an inability to feel urgency unless crisis is upon them. And I can't tell you how many people hit me up and we're like that he's talking about the timber wolves. He was. That said, their comeback last night against the Rockets was some of the most thrilling basketball I've seen all season.

And that was without Anthony Edwards, without Rudy Gobert. Nas Reid got ejected. Rudy fouled out. Nas got ejected, I believe. Jade McDaniels left early. And yet, here's Julius Randolph. Every fucking big play. Here's Dante Divencinzo hitting huge shots.

They just have something, and I don't think it's going to get them all the way this year per se, but it's enough to convince me that great things are possible for them. But who's on the other end of the spectrum for you? Who do you think is the farthest, the furthest, I should say, from the NBA Highland? I did the same thing. I know. It's furthest farthest farthest.

This gets me old. Yeah. It's the Nets, man. I mean, I just don't. I think it is. I don't know if there's much argument here. Even the teams that are down there in the basement with them, like, I mean, the jazz have a lot more going on right now.

I mean, I'm not even going to say the Hornets because they're a rocket ship right now. Yeah. The Pels. That's kind of the argument, I think, right? I think it's either Pels or Nets. We don't even think, but the gris aren't down there, too. I think the gris probably might even be underneath the Pills. I don't know.

It's just we lack, we lack real direction. We think we have a little direction, but the nets are, the five first round picks thing is becoming an increasing, like, I can't tell you how much. I don't know if this comes up with people that you talk to, but like there's been a lot of victory laugh, laughing going on about that. Does people taking Danny Wolf pot shots? What are they doing? I'm somebody that was a little optimistic about it. Maybe not all five guys, maybe a couple of them would hit. But if you hit two of the five, I guess that's not a total. but they're not in a great spot, man. They really, really need to get the top pick in this, or at least, I don't know which one it is,

but they need at least to get one of the top three picks in this draft. I think the question here is, do you think the teams that are further away are the teams that have something right now that they still have to dismantle, but have a talented base and just have to go farther because they have to take that extra step?

Or is it the teams that are already at the absolute dead bottom and don't really have the prospects worth investing? in right now and thus have so much more to build. I kind of think that team oddly enough, unless you're in like a Chicago Bulls level of mediocrity, which honestly, maybe if the Bulls were included in this conversation, I might be inclined to throw them into this mix. Maybe they should. Maybe they should.

Their purgatory is like somehow worse than, I like the idea of the question, though, of like, is it harder if you have to make some, if you have some things and it's not working to figure out? There is a certain clarity in being the net. right? You know exactly what you don't have. And thus you can move heaven or earth in theory to get those things done. This is kind of the problem we were circling around with the Pelicans of like,

what are they willing to do? What is the interest of that franchise? Is that a team that even if they understand intellectually, they should trade Zion Williamson, that can actually bring themselves to trade Zion Williamson. Yeah. It's like it's that whole thing of, you know, you're really in the NBA,

if you're looking for the title race, you're trying to get a dollar bill of a player. and you can have a lot of quarters and find yourself be like, I have all these quarters if I just had a dollar bill. It's like, I just feel like, I feel like Orlando is kind of in that situation right now.

But I like some of their pieces. Yeah. It's like, I don't know, man. That's a tough one. I think let's give it to the Nets. They got a long way to go regardless. So even if they do pull it off someday, it's going to be in the distant, distant future.

Kyle, this has been fun. Our next podcast will not be in the distant future. We're going to be back on Monday. with JV in tow. Thank you in the meantime to Isaiah Blakely, not only producer today, but presenter. Thank you, as always, Isaiah, for helping us with these mailbags, Victoria Valencia, Ben Cruz.

We will return. We promise we will return. Thank you to everyone who emailed in to ringer group chat at gmail.com with questions. We had so many we were even planning to get to today, but didn't. Thank you again for chipping in with those. And we'll see you soon.

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